Weekend Links July 2-3, 2016

Axiom of Choice II Robert Jacks 1994

Axiom of Choice II, 1994, Robert Jacks, National Gallery of Victoria




 United Kingdom

 United States


 Terra Electorus


 Capital Markets

 Global Macro

 …and furthermore…

Choice 1968 Bea Maddock

Choice, 1968, Bea Maddock, Art Gallery of NSW


  1. haroldusMEMBER

    First! Or the Ballad of the Election and the Microblog
    (With apologies to …. well just with apologies)

    As we exit to the final lap, from out the final turn
    Accelerating on the straight to the point of no return.
    No return and old regrets a Holt had got away
    And Harry’s saving wisecracks as we gather at the fray.

    I thought I’d jot a ditty down, in honour of the stable;
    The Macrobusiness denizens that make it somewhat bearable.
    And while I’m cracking jokes, with quality inconsistent,
    I know the MB lobby will be vocal, and persistent.

    Aware that on the internet, no one knows you are a dog.
    You could be Malcolm Turnbull (Malcolm!) who lurks around this blog.
    You could be Kevin Rudd (Kevin!) or the ghost of Joey Ramone (Gavin!)
    We all create the shell which our web personas own.

    I don’t know how to group the factions, from Liberal to Green.
    From deniers to believers; Wiley Wolf, Revert to Mean.
    From hard nosed business bastards; China Bob and old OJ
    Or bleeding small L liberals like…. well, I don’t think I’ll say.

    Or should I use sheer output? If so I think we know
    Which beloved posters will be heading up the show….
    Skippy’s copy pasta makes quite a few irate,
    If you edit it for tone, skip, you’ll be everybody’s mate!

    And the other nominee for commentator’s churn
    Is of course migtronix, or Manuel (on his return).
    Topics infinitum, abrasive fucker too!
    I do however wonder how long until ban two.

    I have a huge …. affection for the working brothers here
    Mining Bogan’s tales of bogans – schadenfreude and fear.
    A plumber down in Ermington is an easy going man
    But if a post starts with “Hey dude”, beware – you know he ‘aint a fan.

    David Collyer – “don’t buy now”; Janet wants us poor.
    Spleenblatt makes a sad haroldus, Fitzroy says No More.
    Jacob don’t dig profanity, fuck that shit I say.
    billygoat is like harry, with tonnes of friends who’re gay.

    Lord Dudley is in Cali, dodging all the shootings,
    Mocking all our politics, I can’t say I disagree.
    The problem is the fact he is a voice from far away.
    Laughing at our hubris but, no skin in game.

    Now Boomers, fucking Boomers is the topic of the jour.
    As close to age as Cobain is, I’m younger than that cohort.
    Millennials and GenY, on the other hand
    Can quit the fuckin expertise. And hipsters I can’t stand

    And when the bigger guns come out, DVO and HnH,
    You know you better walk the line, or you’ll have a holiday.
    Gunna’s getting up there and Becker’s got the memes.
    Everyone is jealous of his GIFs up on our screens.

    Every week like clockwork, I post a witty “first”.
    And just 10 minutes later gone. Deleted – man it hurts.
    You cannot realistically deny me this small pleasure.
    This “first” will be a work that you shall for the ages treasure!

    The thing I realise now is, though we may all be so fractious,
    And sarcastic and abrasive, and indeed a bit pugnacious.
    The thing we all agree on (I’m sure you will agree)
    We have a deep affection for this dopey brown country.

    We all still have the hope; illusions if I may,
    That this microscopic colony can walk up proud one day.
    That once again when overseas we can again declaim.
    Yeah, you got the accent, I am Australian.

    I know that we’re all guilty of posting while at work.
    Some are bosses, some are slaves, some just freakin jerks
    Forgive me if I’ve missed someone, if you are at all offended,
    Just reply to this, I’ll add it. The poem is open-ended.

    So praise our little tribe, the Macrobusiness kids,
    Let’s thank our lucky stars we have an organ such as this.
    But as we hurtle down the straight, from out the final turn,
    There is but one conclusion. Let the motherfucker burn.

    Haroldus 1/7/2016

    • Bloody brilliant!!!

      From the dorky reverse exploited foreign worker in the Celestial Kingdom 😉

      (I actually managed to get the rhyme right in my head, I’m going to read the original now, it’s been a while – you’ve got me hankering for the Cruel Sea and the beach)

      • @ haroldus that is totally unnecessary, as someone who dabbles in poetry writing once every 2 or 3 years, I’m in awe of the creativity that went into that.

    • 20-20-20-24 hours to go I wanna be sedated, after this election result. ? Thanks for the mention and time you put into that poem ;).

      • Short answer yes.

        Long answer it is actually a Nissan Fairlady Z432 which was slightly different to the Australian delivered Datsun 240z as it had a twin cam triple carb motor and is actually a 300k + AUD$ car now. A good top end 240z doesn’t cost that much yet. ?

      • haroldusMEMBER

        my brother had a slightly worked metallic blue 260 with a racing gearbox.

        fuck it was low. and fast.

        idiot sold it for a land rover, thinking he was going bush. hasn’t gone yet!

      • I couldn’t sell any of mine, I have loved these cars since I was 16 years old (now 34). Too much fun, values have been going up lately, quite a bit.

    • I want us all to be poor? We already are! Poor, is a relative term – the purchasing power of our savings/income versus present day/future prices. That ratio been deteriorating for decades, as shown by the need to bridge the affordability gap – of pretty much anything – between what we acquire/need and how he pay for it with ever more, and cheaper, debt. Wages have been declining for decades in relative terms; exampled beautifully by the price of a roof over our heads. So do I want us all to be poor? That’s what I was hoping we’d avoid and reverse. My current writings only express my view, that it is probably too late to change that.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        just you always say our wages are too high. not that i disagree with the reasoning or conclusion.

    • Jezz mate, fair suck of the sauce bottle.
      Pray tell, why is it only OJ and myself that have our legitimacy questioned?
      Trust me this blog is frequented by much bigger bastards than me, most of them actually have a rather transparent agenda, at least my agenda is somewhat obscure, even defensible when seen in the right light. That said I’m not sure about OJ, so maybe you’re on to something 🙂

      • haroldusMEMBER

        mate it was a compliment! i think everyone respects your and OJs pragmatic views (if not likes them)

      • Original John

        At least you have an agenda, I am just sick of dumb people ruining it for everyone else! I hate Chinese analysts who never visit the country, I hate the one’s who visit the country and are stuck on the party bus even more. And I really hate returning to Oz 6 years ago from the US and seeing the country dumbed down, our education system screwed, absence of critical thought in media (outside this blog) and the nation championing house flipping over business innovation.

      • China-Bob….

        Seems the commentor is just pointing out the obvious narrow focus of those that entire purview of reality – is – based on binary trade…. being all things human and with that humans being Homo Economicus… because it validates their own sense of self which they then project upon all others from a moral perspective…

        Disheveled Marsupial… something I find curious for those that hold Adam Smith in such high regard, but bastardize and twist his words beyond their original meaning…

      • Well a very good morning to you to Skippy, Apparently I’ve been told, so I guess I need to expand my repertoire, show a little Aussie humanity, since today I feel particularly folksy, I’ll oblige with some Aussie homespun logic….or that which passes for logic in Australia
        I hope your Chooks turn into Emus and kick your dunny down

      • @OJ yea what is it with all these China anal-ists, they’re so wrong on so many levels. you really have to wonder if they got any further than the first class lounge at PVG.
        Being the “white fella” in China thing is really funny, I have so many weird memories, a couple that I particularly treasure are:
        – Seeing my son carry the Chinese flag up to the flag pole in the morning (along with this cute Chinese girl named Audrey) and go through the whole flag raising ritual followed by morning exercise (chén liàn)
        -Chasing away the local’s (in a very remote part of Szechuan that gathered around to see the laowais, you see my two year old daughter had blond (practically white) hair which none of the local women could believe they all wanted to check if it was dark near the roots. lot’s of grubby peasant hands near my daughters head did not a happy daddy make….it’s all rather comical when you think back on it.

      • China-Bob….

        Its just the dialectal syntax trends and perspectives which forms the frame work you and others use in defining reality…. that’s all, think of it as the never ending market or business jargon which is supposed impart meaningful information, but is more akin to fashion or worse coding. In the end it can become a religious like affiliation, see econnomics over the last 50ish years.

        This is in full opposition to numerous other fields of academic inquire even as societal dysfunction is increasing, yet some are unable to countenance information that challenges these long held perspectives. I mean were living in a time where we have more information and facts than ever before, would take decades just to digest it, all whilst the new data just keeps coming in and…. yet some are irrevocably stratified to antiquarian navel gazing…. its ludicrous and a danger to our species survival let alone all the other life on this orb…

        Disheveled Marsupial…. personal I would not mind if such people offed themselves… but taking others along for the ride is not very intelligent nor ethical…

      • I for one really enjoy the posts made by yourself and OJ. Although I do sometimes get you two confused.

    • Good show old boy! Très bon.

      But… Ban two not 2.0? How did you miss that? Bwaahaahaahaa

  2. GunnamattaMEMBER

    Lets have the election again, lets really give ourselves over to it.

    Let us be bullshit……..

    The Bullshit Manifesto

    What is our policy for the future of Australia – it is bullshit

    Australia is a land of bullshit, and better opportunities to bullshit than anywhere else in the world. In Australia people are free to bullshit, happy with their bullshit, and enjoy bullshit rewards better than most of the human race. There has never been a more exciting time to bullshit for Australians, or to bullshit Australians. The bullshit party is the only way to ensure the bullshit continues. Only Bullshit will ensure that tomorrows Australians are bullshitted more than todays. Vote bullshit.

    This weekend Australians will vote on the flavour of the bullshit they will experience for the next three years, exhorted by bullshit politicians, representing parties who want to bullshit voters, backed by vested interests and corporates who want to bullshit the electorate about the bullshit they already have or are already doing, or the bullshit they want. It will be brought to the attention of Australians though a bullshit media and press, which although it cannot make a profit, is paid to ensure that the bullshit reaching you is the bullshit that someone feels will benefit their bullshit, deploying the finest bullshit commentators and reporters, and running bullshit analysis to ensure that Australians have access to every last skerrick of bullshit coming their way.

    Australia’s institutional framework is a national repository of bullshit, and provides a significant bulwark against anyone seeking change to the way bullshit happens in Australia – from the bullshit of State and Federal politicians and bureaucracies, through to laws and courts which defend the right to bullshit across the breadth of Australian endeavour, with an exactitude which is nothing short of bullshit. It is vital for the bullshit of Australia, that these institutions not only continue to bullshit as they have done, but seek out and engage to further bullshit for future Australians. To lay the foundations of the bullshit of tomorrow, to forecast and shape its form, to allow Australians to choose what bullshit they want, and to bullshit them about how they can achieve that bullshit. This is the promise of bullshit – to take bullshit further, to make bullshit more central, to bring more Australians together around bullshit.

    The bullshit vision

    Our vision is of a world where bullshit is ubiquitous, cheap and affordable. A world where bullshit is efficient and effective, and where the opportunity to bullshit or experience bullshit is a birthright of all Australians, and where Australians from all walks feel that they too are part of the bullshit, that there is bullshit for them, and that they have the opportunity to bullshit, and hand bullshit to their children for their lives and Australia’s future.

    We believe in furthering Australian bullshit no matter how long and hard the bullshit may be. We seek to push bullshit into every crevice and into every sentient moment of our minds. We believe in bullshit from the highest peaks to the oceans depths, from bullshit on the beaches and in the fields, to bullshit in the endless rugged expanses. We will develop our bullshit capability in the North, bullshit across the oceans, and bullshit to new frontiers in space and beyond the stars, seeking out new peoples and lifeforms to bullshit.

    Our vision of a bullshit life is to wake from dreams of bullshit to the sound of bullshit on the radio, interspersed by advertising and news bullshit, promoting a myriad of facets of social bullshit, amounting to economic bullshit, which Australian companies can lever bullshit margins on Australians with. It is Bullshit.

    From there we want Australians to have bullshit on their ways to work, meaningfully experiencing and engaging with bullshit in their chosen careers, feeling bound to a culture of bullshit in their workplaces, where they and their fellow employees and managers are bound by bullshit. With bullshit their efforts can contribute to the bullshitting of Australia and the bequest of bullshit for Australians of tomorrow.

    The bullshit policies

    Economy: The centre of the bullshit for all Australians is in a bullshit economy. Bullshit will leave no stone unturned in building on our bullshit achievements to create an economy which is definitively bullshit. With bullshit for all and a surplus bullshit for future generations and for export. Bullshit of which the rest of the world is rightly admiring and envious. Bullshit which attracts quality bullshit to Australia and builds on the bullshit we have.

    Our economic strategy is to inflate a housing bubble utilising bullshit monetary policy, bullshit land management practices and bullshit credit provided by banks backed by a bullshit budget. From here we believe in bullshitting the entire national economy around this bullshit, with bullshit investment, bullshit trade, and bullshit information management and statistics. Our economic ideology which has withstood the bullshit of time, remains the cultivation of bullshit investment, around the bullshit of trickle-down economics, DSGE, and deregulation, to provide bullshit jobs, so that Australians can pay bullshit taxes – unless they are accessing a bullshit taxation concession……..including

    Negative Gearing bullshit…….. *applause*,
    Capital Gains Tax bullshit…….. *applause*
    Superannuation concession bullshit ……….*applause in unison*
    And the continued bullshit excluding multi-million dollar residences from consideration in access to pensions *applause in unison and standing ovation*

    Only through these policies will Australia’s economy remain bullshit, both now and into the future, bullshit for our children, and bullshit for those who have made Australia the bullshit that it is today. Only through these policies can Australians be the bullshit they vote for when they vote for bullshit.

    Our Budget bullshit will be balanced budget bullshit. We will achieve our balance with the extensive use of bullshit forecasts – from commodity prices, to employment, to wage growth and government revenues – to bullshit conceptual underpinnings such as that enabled by bullshit bubbles driving bullshit receipts, with statistical bullshit further embellishing that balance. That balance will of course continue to bullshit Australians about the bullshit on the revenue side of the budget, which sees spectacular amounts of bullshit concessions costing bullshit billions, while ordinary people are bullshitted with threats about Medicare, education and social welfare costs

    Trade Our trade Bullshit will maintain Australia’s place at the forefront of global free trade bullshit, with Australians bullshitted at length about the benefits it brings, while experiencing bullshit about the jobs it has cost. To this end we will continue the bullshit which has seen Australians get no sight of Free Trade Agreements bullshitted to them by their representatives, of which they have seen nothing but bullshit before they are signed on their behalf, and of which informed economic analysis suggest the outcomes for Australians over the coming generations are baked in bullshit. We will also ensure that the bullshit benefits of these trade agreements are bullshit years into the future and accrue largely to bullshit sectoral interests, or to sectors of the bullshit economy already dominated by international capital so that these may repatriate the benefits to a less bullshit location. We will further commit to ensuring that global companies continue to bullshit Australian taxpayers through their extensive use of transfer pricing and offshore marketing arrangements, in the sale of resources coming from Australia.

    Education: The next generation of Australians needs quality bullshit. We are committed to bullshit education. From bullshit overcrowded primary schools filled with bullshit foreign national children of offshore property speculators, to bullshit discrimination by the federal government against the children of government schools, in favour of bullshit in private schools which already have access to taxation write offs for their parents, through to the bullshit denuding of the vocational education sector in favour of bullshit debt propagation which ultimately the taxpayer will be bullshitted for. From there we remain committed to ensuring that Australia continues to provide bullshit levels of access to courses in sciences, mathematics, engineering and medicine, while promoting bullshit volumes of meaningless courses designed to ensure bullshit levels of debt servicing and bullshit numbers of marginally employed future Australians wondering where the bullshit jobs they thought they were promised have gone to.

    Population: Australia’s bullshit has always been a magnet for migrants from around the world, and our population has been enhanced and diversified through the addition of generations of migrants. Our policy is that Australians continue to bullshit these about the lives they can experience in Australia, while continuing to bullshit existing Australians about the benefits of migration and the role it plays in the economy, in the need for infrastructure, and its role in helping keep asset prices higher through demand from offshore sources of funds. Our population policy will be to extend bullshit visas to anyone from anywhere who can promise to turn up with a suitcase full of bullshit derived cash, or who can transfer such funds into an Australian bank account from whatever bullshit offshore generates it and promise to outbid an existing Australian taxpayer for an Australian house. This will make population growth bullshit, and will be made more so by the complete absence of any economic narrative involving a need for further industry or employees or the slightest indication whatsoever of what all the new migrants will actually do apart from have children who go to school, and bid up small business prices. Of course a bullshit government will be firmly committed to ensuring that corporate Australia can bullshit on visas for employees from offshore whenever they have an inclination to do so, free from the gaze of any regulatory agency. Of course bullshit will see too that Australians know that foreigners arriving from offshore in boats will be bullshitted to Nauru or wherever we can send them, at a bullshit cost to Australian taxpayers, and with bullshit consequences for their lives. Bullshit stands for bullshit population growth and bullshit population and immigration policy!

    Housing: In no field has Australia’s proud history of bullshit been more exemplified than in its bullshitting of Australians about housing. To the point where here in 2016 the price of Australian housing is the most bullshit in the world and will be a bullshit millstone on the economy for generations to come. A bullshit government will ensure that the golden era of housing bullshit will continue for another thousand years, with never declining prices, ever decreasing land sizes, and ever greater building densities in our suburbs. Housing bullshit needs to be sustained through bullshit housing investment, and Australia’s time honoured bullshit for housing investment has been ‘Negative Gearing’ ……*applause* and ‘Negative Gearing’ ……*applause* will be enshrined in our constitution, forever protecting the bullshit which promotes the tax avoiding needs of highly indebted loss making landlords, over the needs of ordinary folk simply wanting a place to live. But Australian housing requires, deserves, our every endeavour for more bullshit. For this reason a bullshit government will promote the opportunity for foreign nationals to launder their moneys free from any requirement to establish the veracity or provenance of those funds, free from the need to establish any connection or commitment to Australia, and free from the need to provide any tangible benefit for Australia whatsoever apart from the creation of inner cities with as much life as a container shipping terminal in the dark. Housing is the centre point of Australian bullshit, its lifeblood and its reason for being. Only with a bullshit government can the quintessentially Australian bullshit on housing be sustained without question, without fear, and without any logic at all

    Men and women of Australia, this is but a bullshit prospectus of the bullshit we can visit on Australia when we are returned to government, and of the bullshit we can festoon you and your loved ones, as well as your heirs for generations to come. We will build a nation of such epic bullshit, bullshit of such legend, so fantastically transformational bullshit that we will be the bullshit of the ages…………… we will be – bullshit!


    • Bulldust grows great rhubarb!

      Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb
      Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb
      Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb
      Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb
      Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb

    • Ok I’ll bite.

      Gunna did you write that yourself or did you ctrl f and replace ‘something’ (e.g. innovation) a great Australian politician vomited with the word bullshit?

      • GunnamattaMEMBER

        Nah mate. Thats just a stream of consciousness rant on a keyboard (in F Sharp major) that descended upon me while reading some of our mainstream media this afternoon. I originally slapped it into the generational theft post in the afternoon. That aint no cut and paste job. It is just a straight type with a vision of someone like ScoMo or Joel Fitzgibbon pressing all the right conceptual buttons.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        hey gunna F sharp major is not very mainstream. do you really mean that? I can actually help you with key signatures, if you want .

    • Well one big hat tip to Gunnamatta; wordsmith extraordinaire!

      Lucid, incisive and full of collective ego piercing invective. Bravo.

    • Damn it Gunnamatta, i kinda want to vote bullshit number one now.. Ethical and moral considerations aside, have you thought about writing for one of the bullshit parties?

    • +1

      That is the piece that should have been on the front page of every paper and website this morning.
      For the news their should have been multiple readings, Mr. Rush, Mrs Blanchett, Mr. Caton that chubby chap from Master Chef who is the personification of the sin of Gluttony. A tone and a face to appease the ear and the eye of every Australian. Then, and only then, would the voter to be be truly informed of the importance of this day and what their vote means.
      Thank my Mr. Gunna, I now no longer worry about making the wrong decision, for how can I make a wrong one when there is not a right one in sight.

    • Jared Diamond, author of guns, germs and steel has a few other books. I recommend you flick to Chapter 13 on Australia in ‘Collapse – how societies choose to fail or survive’. This chapter may be your kindred spirit and goes far beyond Hume’s Lucky Country run by second rate humans analysis.

      Diamond focuses on five key scientific factors that lead to collapse and are vital in staving off societal collapse and embeds them within a historico-political analysis that is subjective to each chapter. In Australia’s case he highlights three key factors – essentially crap soil which impacts on yield, cost of ag production and fisheries, limited water resources, and tyranny of distance and explains how they have been misunderstood by the big Australia lobby.

      What’s more he delves into the pathetic management of our renewable resource base, which are required for future generations to survive at all.

      An extract sampler

      Renewable resources can be exploited indefinitely, provided that one removes them at a rate less than at the rate at which the regenerate. If however one exploits forests, fish, or topsoil at rates exceeding their renewal rates, they too will eventually be depleted to extinction, like the gold in the gold mine.

      Australia has been and still is “mining” its renewable resources as if they were mined minerals. That is, they are being overexploited at rates faster than their renewal rates, with the result that they are declining. AT present rates, Australia’s forests and fisheries will disappear long before its coal and iron ore reserves, which is ironic in view of the fact that the former are renewables but the latter aren’t.

      Worth a read. For once the coal, iron ore gas and etc is left; the remaining folk will need to optimise land and water management. The earlier they start – especially now that there are still some funds coming in, the better their chances of developing industry that can compete in international markets.

      Superannuation tax cuts may well be nice for boomers, but did they consider that 3000 plant species are considered weeds in Australia today and cause economic losses of $2.5 billion per annum?
      Did they stop to consider the impacts of irrigation, overstocking of sheep, tree lopping on Australia’s nutrient deprived soils which work in different ways to European and Asian soils?

      The ‘she’ll be right’culture looks to be replaced by the selfish culture down under. What we need is a culture of accountability and smarts.

      What may be today stop the boats, nay be a people looking for a way out in the future. yet Australia can turn things around. 70% of Australians think that we have reached capacity, and they’re right.

      Other factors leading to soil degredation: native vegetation, overgrazing by sheep, rabbits, soil nutrient exhaustion, soil erosion, man-made droughts, weeds, misguided government policies, and salination, that’s their call.

      In sum as we know, Australia has an exceptionally fragile environment with a low economic basis for competing in agriculture; and have done well by mining non renewable resources. Yet there is no planning.

      Diamond says that for Australia to remain optimistic, we reach a point at where societies need to decide which of a society’s deeply held core values are competitive with a society’s survival, and which ones have to be given up.

      Diamond finished by saying

      On the one hand, the development of environmental problems in Australia is accelerating exponentially

      and closes by saying that there is a horse race between political concern and will to act on sustaining environment and the actual decay which has an fragillity factor that may be higher in Australia than other places.

      What do I make of this?

      Most Australians live in cities and away from where the damage is being felt to productive soil etc. and are more focused on their own immediate issues ie high house prices. They need to be brought into the mix.
      Australia actually continues to build housing on our most productive soil/rain areas whereas it may be better to open up land elsewhere and reclaim fertile soils to feed ourself.

      Australia can find solutions two ways: change ourselves and optimise use of our environment as presented by planning well, making smart decisions and using new technology; or it can continue to rely on imports from other regions to feed and transport us and look at technology in providing a 2-5% supply buffer against supply chains being cut or being able to service debt and feed ourself ala Greece.

      There needs to be more diplomats between business, Government and political parties who understand these issues. The political strategists are still having their day working on easy to sell one liners. There needs to be big money paid to political strategists who can sell the important messages that are hard to push thru if there is not bipartisan action forthcoming. At some point in the future, even those most addicted to fearmongering to hold onto power for powers sakes rather than for prosperity sakes must be inclined to search for answers that ensure our survival as a species, not just their job for the next four years.

      Free Trade does not need to be independent from smart management of our own resources.

      Systems thinkers will be the quarterback resources of the future. Yet we need them to be playing a mentoring role now as we transition. And we need more diplomats between business, the arts, politics and the environment. There are no clear role models for many of these roles, the younger gens need to create a new template.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        That Collapse book is pretty depressing. If it’s the one I remember he made a statement something like “You have to wonder what the Easter Islanders were thinking as they cut the last tree down”. That has stuck with me for years, but what are ya gonna do?

      • Original John

        + Many YOK

        I have long espoused the view on this blog that those who view Australia as the food bowl of Asia are simply setting us up to be the dust bowl of Asia. Even with the changes touted in our Ag methods, it is really too little too late. In many cases, the damage is done and the solution is to stop completely not change methods. This was really driven home as I toured through rural Jiangsu province and observed many of the recommendations from my lecture series I did with their Ag department taking shape in practice. Abundant water is being managed with huge efforts to clean up the waterways and protect the land.

      • yes, easter island is one that is quite extreme – yet allegedly shows that we are capable of turning ourself into extinction haroldus.

        OJ, for some reason we seem to be great at developing solutions, yet terrible in follow thru. The communist regime has the added advantage of making a decision that is good for the nation and having everyone below fir into line. Don’t be surprised to see a new wave of political theorists showing that democratic systems are poor for good outcomes for those citizens.

  3. Out of a rather depressing set of headlines on China, one stands out with EXCELLENT news:
    China to cut steel capacity by 45 million tonnes this year: state planner – SCMP

    No wonder I can actually breathe this year in Beijing. The number of days where the AQI is below 50 has been staggeringly high this year, we must have already overtaken the measly number of last year. Today was a gloriously sunny summer day, we had a sky with gradients of colour in it, just amazing, the air was (almost) crystal. If this can reduce the number of people with gut curdling horrible hacking coughs, reduce the number of well-being years lost to air pollution and reduce the number of people grieving for loved ones who popped off to the afterlife well before they should have then the economic cost should be worth it.

    I thought this was an interesting read: China’s State-Owned Enterprises at a Crossroads – Project-Syndicate
    The point about the digital platforms of Alibaba and Tencent being comparable to public infrastructure was interesting. What the Chinese can do with good connectivity and high population density is pretty amazing. The pace of innovation in this area and the speed of change and breadth of uptake by EVERYONE is just…wow.

    On another note Brexit caused some very interesting conversations among students wanting to know why they voted leave. Usually the topics of democracy and voting never come up in class (I don’t encourage those conversations but if the students start it I won’t shut it down, unless I’m not sure of my standing with them, I’ve no desire to find myself deported and put on a visa blacklist) (Dear Chinese government if you are reading this: I always mention the pros and cons of different political systems and conclude there is no perfect system, and honestly your people don’t seem interested in changing the system, they’re Chinese, some sorts of change is scary and to be avoided). Interestingly this time I had more people than usual edging towards saying they would like to be able to vote and less people than usual saying China had too many people and those people were too uneducated for the place to do the voting thing. The party line on Brexit and the dangers of letting people choose obviously caused a lot of discussions.

    And finally I went past/into the embassy twice in BJ this week. Only the red shirt mob had people handing out how to vote info. No sign of the blue shirts. Once again, in defiance of little johnnie and Costello I lied on my postal vote about my permanent address, I put down my Aussie address. This combined with actually voting in every election has ensured I have stayed on the electoral rolls even though I’m not supposed to be as I’ve been out of the country too long (that’s a hint for anyone planning on leaving Australia as Steernorth repeatedly exhorts everyone to). I don’t feel bad about lying, I’m in a country that could kick me out any time it wanted to so it’s not like I’ve ever known how long I’ll be here, and I do deeply care about the brown land that tugs on all our heart strings. Screw you Howard and Costello for trying to take away my right to vote. Also the woman manning the booth told one voter to just put down his Australian address if he still got mail there (Chinese addresses are rather long and don’t quite fit in the space on the form you know).

    • Original John

      I was going to post last Saturday on the train back from Dong Hai to Shanghai about the air quality this leg of the trip. 8 weeks ago the pollution was bad from Nanjing to WuXi to Shanghai, the rain just covered you with this black oily mess. Last week, Shanghai was the best I have seen it in 4 years of travel. Yes it was raining, but it was rain not slime and the only person coughing was my travelling companion who caught the flu in Oz.

      Beware the front running of potential China stimulus! Looking a lot like the last break-out in Iron Ore today, after a small pull back in spot and Dalian, this morning Dalian is off to the races tho on much lower volume.

    • I was having this discussion with some colleagues at work yesterday. I have to add a new rule of mine for discussing housing, and that is don’t bother arguing housing with free market parroters. This goes in conjunction with my rule of don’t discuss housing with property investors.

      My colleagues agreed housing is too high and that there will be a crash soon, but when it came to discussing the causes they buried their heads in the sand and spouted free market rubbish saying they have the right to buy a house and leave it empty where ever they like. I argued that on the individual level it looks fine but you have thousands of people doing this and it distorts the market causing ramifications for those living in the city. Didn’t care.


    … click reload / refresh …

    • Brexit … the fall of the bureaucratic walls of the West … as people demand greater control of their lives and institutions.

    • New Zealand Labour and Greens support Government to abolish urban limits.

    • New Zealand Labour supports bond financing of infrastructure.

    • 76% of New Zealanders dissatisfied with Governments progress sorting out housing costs … from 63% late 2012.

    • Just 15% of New Zealanders now satisfied with local government performance … down from a low 28% in 2014.

    … with much more …

  5. Any ideas why yesterday’s thread “How Aussie youth can fight off the Boomer war” ain’t showing up anymore?!

  6. Darwinism in NFL football. Anyone who saw the Football game between Melbourne Storm and The Brisbane Broncos witnessed the survival of the fittest meme at its best.
    Background. Some years ago Melbourne set up a Rugby League Football team comprising a number of X QLD footballers, it was an attempt to take the game into the AFL territory.
    The Team was the Melbourne Storm. Over the years they have made innovations to their game and especially learned and polished tactics from the AFL version of the game and adopted and applied that to League. Especially the ability to kick the ball to a position on the field and have a player following the ball from the kicker to be able to wrestle procession of the ball at the receiving end AFL style. Well last night the Storm using those AFL learned techniques steam rolled the Broncos.48-6
    The NFL game is now changed forever, a new benchmark.
    Same will happen when employers get their hands on generally accessible robots.

  7. The Traveling Wilbur

    Vote early, vote often. And good luck Australia. You’ll need it. Abbottalypse Redux in T-20 (months).

    PS just as well the adults have been in charge the last couple of years. Imagine how things would have been without this mature capable leadership we’ve been blessed with recently. *cough*

    • I wanted to vote twice, but was afraid of getting caught and have no idea about the penalty!

  8. Economist Dr Arthur Grimes extraordinary views on Auckland housing solutions … Hong Kong for Auckland ? …

    Why the Gold Coast is the answer to our soaring house prices – Business – NZ Herald News


    A former Reserve Bank chairman has called for the Government and Auckland Council to enact policies to deliberately “collapse” the city’s house prices by at least 40 per cent and intensify building along Tamaki Dr with Gold Coast-style towers.

    Arthur Grimes delivered a hard-hitting speech at an Auckland Conversations event, calling for swift action to resolve the housing crisis, and the city’s eastern suburbs to have high-rise residential blocks, ready for the next generation of Aucklanders.

    The median house price was $1 million, up from an already too high level of $600,000 five years ago, he said. … read more via hyperlink above …

    English – Wheeler’s (high density) comments as popular as Ebola – Business – NZ Herald News


    Posted also at http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2016/07/general_debate_2_july_2016.html

  9. In the game of Australian political survival, today is Tribal Council.

    It doesn’t matter who you want to win, all you have to do is vote out the biggest threat.

    You know what to do

  10. For the Victorians,
    Here is a readable summary of the Senate options, with some personal highlights.


    Some summaries that caught my eye.

    The nerds and the lycra crew are combining their forces in Victoria! As a certified nerd, I can dig pretty much 100% of what they’re standing for. Interesting that they propose the creation of an Australian Charter City. WTF is a charter city? Basically a place that’s set up to be a center of science and technology excellence in Australia. They wanna call it Turing (I wonder why) and place it between Sydney and Canberra, hooked up with a fast train. Subterranean roads and its own immigration laws. Basically a nerd utopia. They also want a space agency, which is probably more realistic than their charter town.
    Basically the Science Party wanna spend more cash on science and tech researching. They want a republic. Simplifying the tax system. Decriminalisation of drug use and a focus on mental health. A full fibre NBN. No nukes, but they’re cool with GMOs. The cyclists part of the ticket is again, what they say in their name – more bikes and better bike related policy!

    FLOYD Glenn – classic unhinged bloke. Absolutely hates government corruption and wants way more transparency. He reckons all the current politicians are bribed. Wants 9000 child care centers. Thinks psychiatrists kill more people than cancer. Like I said, textbook unhinged. Website is fun read.

    They wanna go camping wherever they want, shoot whatever they like, while fishing anywhere there’s some water – chuck in a bit of 4WD action too. Absolutely hate inner city latte sipping hipsters deciding what happens in rural areas. More defence funding and stronger border protection.

    If you think the Greens aren’t left wing enough.


    Huge racists.

    Ultra racists.

    Happy Voting.

    • Wife and daughter just voted… daughters first time, voted animal cruelty / cycle party… wife much the same…

      Disheveled Marsupial… not enamored by any mainstream party and voted accordingly…

      • I think that most people who take a proper look and apply a bit of thought will be doing the same.

    • Stronger border protection?

      The policies against boat people are as evil as possible.

      Unless they mean AUS needs to slash the 457 visa intake?

      The ALA is more racist than Pauline Hanson. I think ALA would probably swap Muslim immigration for Hindu and Buddhist immigration.

      I do not care what religion people in the train are – the problem is there are too many people in the train!

    • The ALA and Riseup aren’t racist, but they are bigoted against the religion of Islam. Correct me if I’m wrong but a religion is not a “race”. Pauline used to be anti-asian and anti-aboriginal so she was technically racist.

  11. And whoever ends up on top there is no doubt that it will be a prick up front.

    “Every rock-star, movie-star, president or pope
    Is, in essence, a pubescent saying “Grandma look at me”
    It must be overcompensation
    for an ego once inflated
    In a narcissistic injury between ages one and three
    As they go grabbing up their Grammy or their ebbi or their obie
    and go blabbing their baloney to a dazzled peasantry
    Don’t you feel like a stunted underpaid grunt?
    To be very, very clear
    I’ll be very, very blunt
    Solve your metaphysical befuddlement,
    It’s asses to the rear…..
    With the excrement
    God wants the pricks and the c*&ts up front…….”

    Though applicable to political sorts, I do believe that Mr. Prieboy composed this piece about Axl Rose.

      • Nothing to be concerned about,
        I often forget myself and my posts are generally best forgotten.

      • No problem.
        Music is often the best salve for the weeping sore that is life.

        I highly recommend anything by Prieboy that Edwin Vacek does a clip for.
        ‘Bands’, ‘Hearty Drinking Men’, and the greatest tale of civilization ever put to song, ‘Build a Better Garden (Demo)’ are all worth your time.

        The Sparks live performance of ‘Dick Around’, which tells the tale of a CEO whose lover walks out on them, thus instigating a mid-life crisis, is another unknown modern masterpiece.

        As is their “minimalist baroque pop” piece on being flavor of the month and then being a nobody, ‘Ride ’em Cowboy’. It always make me think of Rudd.
        “They laughed with me
        Then laughed at me
        They said, “how true ”
        Then said, “not you”
        They thought how wise
        Then thought goodbye
        You hit your stride
        Then Mr. Hyde”

      • billygoat,

        If you are interested in song writing then Mr. Prieboy is a rich vein that is worth mining.

        His undisputed masterpiece is ‘Tomorrow Wendy’.
        It is a track that he wrote out of frustration.
        His friend Wendy had contracted AIDS.
        At the time it was a death sentence and society didn’t care.
        She decided that she was going to end her life.
        He composed this for her.

        JJJ live at the wireless version.

    • haroldusMEMBER

      hey footsore did you like bloodhound gang? tonight i’m gonna dust off One Fierce Beer Coaster and drink myself into a stupor.

      • @Footsore. Thanks again: Dick around, Build a Better Garden & Hearty Drinking Men (Bondi hotel on. Saturday night & afterwards in Beach Rd – they’re everywhere) Great footage by Edwin Vacej for both tracks!
        Old songs with pertinent themes – Andy Priebiy I’m a fan.

  12. Fun fact: the kingdom of Scotland joined with Britain originally to…get access to a trading bloc (the burgeoning British empire). The symmetry of voting to leave the UK to stay in a trading bloc is interesting historically, another way point on their decline since the 1930s.

    • Scotland was virtually bankrupt after a colonial adventure ( the Darien Scheme) that had gone wrong. While the English were growing their empire the Scots had a cash problem and the Act of Union meant the Bank of England covered the debts. (NB Paraphrasing history means some details are glossed)

      • I wonder what they plan to do with the union flag if Scotland leaves and Ireland reunites. I don’t think either is likely but then again we all forget Ireland resorted to a shooting war to gain independence.

        Still, Scotland gave us Bon Scott and Angus young, but the British gave us Tony Abbott, so I hope they secede successfully.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        Bon, Australia’s greatest poet. Those albums have to be some of the best recordings ever.

        Still, Axl wasn’t bad, I think he’s a pretty good writer so I hope we get a new AXLDACCA album.

      • St JacquesMEMBER

        Everyone in the UK is British when Murray wins. The English gave us Abbortt, but it was a near run thing according to an Englishman I spoke to.

      • notsofastMEMBER


        And the English pulled the financial strings to essentially create the brutal Highland Clearances that provided many of the people to help populate the BritishEmpire and also removed many of the most rebellious from Scotland.

  13. I think I just voted for someone that wants to tax me more or not spend as much (on me) and have the gays use the word marriage for their life parter union (I think).

    Sausages were ok – nothing spech.

  14. Mining BoganMEMBER

    So who else continued the fine tradition of gambling addiction on election day? 8-1 odds have to be grabbed. Just. Have. To.

    In other news, my partner is giving out cheap massages in conjunction with the sausage sizzle fundraiser at the school. I’ve been told to vote elsewhere. Ranty rants apparently affect donation income.

    • Just make it a “Life Advice Booth”.
      They give you a gold coin, you let loose for 30 seconds to a minute.

      On the topic of ranting….
      I’ve been invited to an election party with cocktails and long-island ice teas.
      I’m considering volunteering to be the designated driver so as to not offend the hosts and not have Lady footsore send me to the couch for the next few nights.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        There was a homeless guy I used to watch in Times Square. One buck to yell at him for a minute. He made a motza! Some of the abuse was awesome. People would pretend he was someone they knew.

        He always had this serene smile on his face. That upped the abuse level a bit.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        man i could go a long island ice tea. those things are evil like a pan galactic gargle blaster.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Back when I was young and mangy, I introduced two eighteen year olds to the joys of LIIT. Montreal it was. Two American girls wanting their first night out ever. Boy, did it light them up! I had to play protector.

        That’s the night I realised young and mangy was over, responsible and grumpy were in.

  15. I was talking with a good friend yesterday and he indicated his intention to vote on Saturday by drawing Phallus in various states of excitement beside each and every candidate. Makes me wonder, Do such protest votes ever get counted? Does anyone ever peruse the invalid vote ballots to see what obscenities or physically impossible suggestions are present? Could make for an interesting mockumentary, I’m certain It’d be an instant YouTube success.

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      Don’t cock up your vote – it’s too important


      I’ve never done the phallus on the ballot paper thing, although in the late 1980s in a 3 week bout of enthusiasm for the ALP, I attended a Branch meeting of said party in the Western Suburbs of Melbourne. I recall sitting as one or two condescending wankers (who were big on quashing anyone else with anything to say) waffled on for about an hour or more and started drawing in a notepad, and there were definitely phalluses in that. At an even earlier stage in life I attended a young Liberals fundraiser in Mt Eliza (tho I didnt have to pay) simply to get my phallus closer to a fellow attendee – it worked. I recall talking early 1980s politics on the pillow post coitus, and thinking to myself ‘she is living in a parallel universe’ after enjoying the scenery.

      I may wait until I finish my PhD thesis in the spatial relationship of Australian pubs and sundry other drinking venues, before I commence my follow up dissertation on the role of the phallus on modern post industrial democracy. But its definitely one to do. Years later in the world of Industrial Relations I recall being told the story about a night Bob Hawke was all over some woman who spurned his advances. Eventually he followed her taxi home to somewhere in St Kilda and started screaming at her from out on the street something to the effect of ‘I am going to be Prime Minister!’ (as though that may entice her to reconsider his advances then and there) before a union man with an eye on the bigger picture got Bob away.

      • Thanks Gunna, I had no idea it was a “thing”.
        I just did a little googling and it appears there are many creative ways to fill out ballot papers (like our Senate ballot) with patterns that spell out or graphically display something, thing is they are still valid ballots.
        Mind you I did like the idea of the vote being valid if it indicated an erect phallus and was drawn wholly within the confines of the voting ballot box.
        Lets see the senate requires 12 votes, hmmm can I draw 12 Phallus’s all in decidedly different states of excitement? I wonder if there would be a gender bias displayed by those tasked with counting the votes, as in which and of the excitement spectrum equates to a 1 and which represents a 12. Could be particularly difficult if one included post coital doodles and erupting fountains of joy.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        hmmm can I draw 12 Phallus’s all in decidedly different states of excitement?

        dunno, sounds a bit hard

  16. Just lined up to vote for 55 minutes.

    Listening to everyone complain about the ques while discussing voting Green. The irony. People are so dumb.

      • I fit in. I’d vote for them if they addressed population growth (in the absence of SA).

        BTW, I’m always surrounded by progressive types.

    • Richard,
      My working theory about your pathological dislike for the Greens is that Sarah Hanson Young rejected you as a suitor. Am I close?

    • TailorTrashMEMBER

      Had to line up for 40 minutes in the cold to vote this morning …..and that was on the leafy north shore ….( or fast disappearing leafy north shore ) ……never in all my years have had to wait that long to vote ……big Australia is becoming painful ………this of course helped influence my vote

      • bolstroodMEMBER

        Calma Richard, in that for all the energy you exert railing against the Greens , you find yourself imersed in them for nearly an hour. Ironic? or maybe instructive.
        Peace brother.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        I wouldn’t mind being “imersed” in that Sarah Hanson Young.
        Recon she’d have a filthy mouth

  17. AEC informs me that I cannot vote this time because I fixed my name in the enrollment. Meh. $50 saved because my suburb is filled with latte sipping Liberal Boomers.

    • We encountered the ghost of election rolls past. My address was OK, daughter missing completely. Wife voted elsewhere and they had an address from 5 years ago. Lots of confused kids wondering why their name was present for the NSW state election but had gone missing for this one. I hesitate to call it irregular, but it was unsettling.

      • My wife too. No name to be found. I had to provide ID no one looked at to verify she was she to complete an away vote. How fucking hard can it be to get right?

  18. I have a lot of time for the CFA, and I respect what they do, but what the hell were they doing at the polling venue today? Their beef is with the state government, which admittedly has utterly botched this issue, but why drag federal Labor into this mess? I assume the CFA also gave the Liberal party permission to have their CFA logo of the Liberal party signs, too. I don’t care about Labor losing votes, its the principle of the thing.

  19. GunnamattaMEMBER

    Here is my weird story of the morning. Mrs Gunnamatta likes knitting. Another member of the local Russian community makes woollen items and sells them – she has told Mrs Gunna that the wool du jour at the moment is called ‘Possum Wool’ and that if you make things out of it they are the bees knees of knitted apparel at the moment – superior to super fine merino, superior to alpaca etc. Mrs Gunna asks me to get some.

    Now I have quite a few mates who have good connections to wool at almost every stage – from the farm to traders and testers. I call one and ask where I can get possum wool. He tells me it has been invented by the Kiwis (those inventive intelligent Kiwis) and he doesnt know who makes any locally. I call Creswick Mills (just outside of Ballarat) who sell some Possum wool products to see if they can point me in the direction of getting some. The woman on the line tells they Possum wool is indeed the gold standard of slinky feeling natural fibres and that it is a mixture of possum and the finest quality merino out of New Zealand, but that unfortunately nobody in Australia makes the stuff and that the only place to buy the wool is online. At this stage (having grown up sure in the knowledge that the finest wool in the world is grown within 3 hours drive of Geelong – and 100% certain that that same region has good quality possum) I put through a call to a mate in Dunedin (lovely city) who has a mate who grows wool over there. Yep, he says, some bright spark over there cottoned onto the idea that all of the possums (introduced pests over there) have some fine quality fibre on them and that there is a way which they can be mixed with wool (and he noted that although it is sold as ‘the finest quality merino’ it is not in fact as fine as the merino I could go and buy a bale of right here in Geelong). Apparently the story there (amidst much laughter) is that the Kiwi wool community cannot believe their luck as they can legally kill possums (the fibre extraction process involves killing the animals I believe) whereas their Australian counterparts (who have finer wool and finer possums) cant, which means those cunning Kiwis have made a world beating product out of Auistralian animals and that Australians graziers cannot make a buck out of animals they would certainly have running around pissing in their roofs.

    After taking time to explani to Mrs Gunnamatta the practical issues likely to be associated with trying to shear possums in the wild, I have talked her around to buying some ‘possum wool’ off ebay.

    • Snowy Peak did all the development for this product about 20 years back. It was a way of utilising the ‘waste product’ from culling possums ( they don’t have a natural predator here)
      They might be the go to get what you’re after.

      • GunnamattaMEMBER

        Cheers Janet, looks like they are into selling clothing made from Possum Wool rather than the balls of wool. If you happen to know of any outfits who sell the stuff over there I am interested. The Mrs is yelling out from the next room it costs circa 35 bucks a ball on ebay which seems ostentatious.

        On a more positive note I am going to do a drive in the Western districts today – woe betide any possum I find which looks like it is ripe for the shears.

      • Make sure you put the beggar in a good headlock before making the first blow, Gunna ;-P

      • @ Johnr & Gunna. There’s no need to put the possum in a headlock. I’ve seen video footage of how the ‘wool’ is harvested & it DOES NOT involve shears. The animals are fed into a vibrating machine like a square concrete mixer & the fur is literally throttled or stripped off them as they are fed through. ingenious & disturbing. I doubt punters would be throwing possum cardies & shawls over their should if they knew how this happens. My friend whose husband filmed it in action felt like she was on the set of Wolf Creek due to barbarian nature. Ethically farmed I’m sure.

    • Hmmm. Abundant resource that locals can’t access. Not too dissimilar to the eastern seaboard domestic gas market…
      Anyone starting to see a pattern?

    • From a bloke who has shorn a few sheep in his time…
      “After taking time to explani to Mrs Gunnamatta the practical issues likely to be associated with trying to shear possums in the wild,”
      What a wonderful image!!!!! 🙂

      • GunnamattaMEMBER

        Mrs Gunna knows i have connections in wool. Her first thought was a simple ‘couldnt we get some possum fur and mix it?’

        I explained some of the known properties of possum urine, and took her through the shearing process (which she has seen) as it may apply to small scratching, biting, agile animals, panic striken by approaching humans with shears. She got the idea.

    • As a painter,l wonder at replacing kolinsky sable brushes(wonderful but expensive) with hair from possums. Could be a good export industry and l would happily donate possums from my garden for the start up research.

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      Thanks for that post Gunna, nothing better than a bit of a well-crafted yarn on the weekend. It’s a wonderful tapestry you’ve woven there. Though your later post below may be a bit of a tangled-web through which others may have to weave. Hope this one-liner doesn’t stich-up the conversation on that topic, Possum. After all, part of the beauty of this site is the varied and well read backgrounds of its paying and non-paying commenters and their self-evident respect for the power and beauty of the English language to make a salient point in the most cut-through and thought provoking of ways. The one-liner, when done well, being an artform of this ilk unto itself, being practised by both Shakespeare and the working-class Englishman of yore alike; and from their time onwards.

      The Germans are pretty good at them too, typically, by accident.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Ran over a possum the other Night,… I could go back to see if its still there,. If you like.

    • Yeh, definitely some good marketing in there. When I was most recently in NZ possum products were everywhere. Knitting wool isn’t normally a very exciting product (back corner of spotlight/lincraft) but over there the possum blend could be found in every souvenir shop around.

  20. It’s occurred to me today that most people turn up to a booth without a solid idea of who to vote for. I’ve also recently read that 25% turn up without knowing who they’re going to vote for.

    Probably obvious I guess, but elections could be won both at the place-of-voting gate, and hearing about a candidate.

    In other words, the election result doesn’t necessarily reflect what people think but who got in their ear.

    This can’t be that hard to fix for parties like Sustainable Australia. Were volunteers adequately sourced and used? I think not. I was surprised to see that volunteers (in limited seats to start with) were wrapping it up at noon.

    In hindsight, I should have volunteered to call potential volunteers and utilize them to maximize effect.

    I still think they’ll do very well today in the senate.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      This is true. A mate used to hand out HTV cards. He would engage ranty types on the way in or out to try and swing disinterested types on their way to vote. One election night he told me there had been a dozen voters standing behind me having a listen.

      Reminds me of the time I accidentally became a guide at the Calgary Zoo…

    • innocent bystander

      no SA contenders in WA – upper or lower.
      my new electorate of Hasluck doesn’t even have an Independant

      • Garghhh…Same for Swan electorate..Stood inline and was “assaulted” by being made to listen to a Liberal “bloaty-head-helper-outer” , extolling to the lineup to Vote Liberal to ensure he received a “Bonus”…It took a massive amount of self control not to dive tackle him, and give him a smack to the noggin he deserved…sigh

    • I hope they’ll do well too. I voted for them & convinced my mother to as well after telling her about school kids visa rort.

      Interestingly where I voted, a girls high school in Willoughby NSW, there was a large Greens contingent handing out flyers there. The school itself was packed with demo unstable class/staff? rooms that were now erected on the tennis & basketball courts (pressumably due to the number of students exceeding the limits of established buildings).

      • Great stuff Antony. Glad to hear.

        Something’s clicked in my head. I’m on a mission.

        Depending on what happens today, I’ll be contacting Greens and telling them I’ll destroy their brand if they don’t address population growth. I will spend every waking moment on social media recruiting people that get it to spread the word.

    • bolstroodMEMBER

      re Greens population policy ( your comment below) , I have asked among my Green friends
      and the answer is , The Greens are a concensus based party, and on population policy they cannot get consensus, they are strongly divided, hence their nothng policy.

      • That makes sense. Thanks.

        However they should be articulating their expertise. Or seeking advice.

        It is Greens that should be setting the tone.

      • yes now the voting is over I am happy to confirm bolstrud’s info. The Greens are divided between those who want to control population growth in order to protect the environment and those who see it as our duty as global citizens to have fairly open borders for people fleeing, needing new homes, wanting to come here, etc. hence no population policy.

  21. So I finally voted in the freezing conditions here. I can finally feel from the tips of my fingers again.

    Anywho, after putting 1 next to Sunstainable Australia, coming up with the next 5 lucky candidates was truly a hard task. I just wanted to stop at one.

    Good to see my local reps was basically 6 parties I didn’t want to vote for.

    • I could be wrong, but I heard “someone” on the ABC say that a 1 above the line still count, but your vote gets exhausted if that party doesn’t get a sufficient quota. That said, I wouldn’t risk it!!

  22. haroldusMEMBER

    haroldus’ prediction for the weekend……..


    thanks must go to David!

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      I work on the theory if you have 100 up by lunch on the first morning you are a chance of 300-350 over the weekend. 400 would require someone like Mig posting every five minutes and getting hyper inane – which I believe the spambot is filtering out.

      To get beyond 300 you essentially need a solid first up post by someone with a number of intelligent follow up comments by others, this then filers through to smaller comments and you get a batch of one liners which can pad out the total. If you get the one liners first up that tends to kills the discussion a tad and prevent it from airing or flowering.

      The First afternoon is potentially going to see some good comment with the backdrop likely to include first person reports on voting experiences which subsequently get shared around and related.

      I suspect the actual outcome (in terms of the parliamentary situation) may not be known until tomorrow (although I suspect the Libs will be able to claim the win tonight) – and that too should see a bit of banter. Of course any sort of news on the day – such as the Kelly O’Dwyer fisticuffs at the polling booth thing doing the rounds at the moment – should also be good for comment numbers.

      Generally speaking the pitch gets difficult to play later on the first day and into the second day with the post clogged with comments which many people have issues scrolling through. You can get quick comments there but what you really need is a commenter to step right on out to the pitch of the thread and tonk a few issues or news pieces onto the end and hope that enough fellow commenters will follow up without getting bogged down looking through all the stuff already there. Often you will also get a real flurry of quick comments later on the sunday eve – I believe as the subliminal urge of people to get the comment number up towards 300 overtakes rational contemplation of what should or shouldnt be an intelligent comment. I’m a man who likes intelligent comment and interesting observations rather than the straightforward accusation and denial tone of some who throw quick comments up here.

      I am actually of the view that if we could link up a few regular – it would be worth having a MacroBusiness peanut gallery once a week podcast to chew over the economics and politics (with sundry other social observations) for listening purposes.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        it would be worth having a MacroBusiness peanut gallery once a week podcast to chew over the economics and politics (with sundry other social observations) for listening purposes

        that would be awesome!

      • Original John

        Nothing better than a bunch of peanuts in the gallery! As a lifelong anti-political establishment type (Daffy won my vote on the occasions the Hopping Llama party wasn’t running – they did want world peace and I really wanted to see how long they could keep hopping), this is the first year I have actually attended any pre-election events. Needless to say, representing Chinese community interests at various Labour and Liberal events as a “white fella” has been an eye-opener. This year, I voted early but the bastards stopped me from voting often (some crap about one vote) and being in the glorious seat formally held by Fat Cat, the options were indeed mind-numbing. In the end, both major parties have done an excellent job in convincing me that neither party is suited to run this country. I misread the shooters party platform (easy to do, thought it was free guns for all and a license to kill), the sex party caught my eye (damn misleading name – thought it was free sex for all), the greens did a good job of being inconspicuous on the ballot and the number of independent and smaller party names was just too much (there is a reason I don’t take my glasses to vote) leaving just one option: NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!! In elections like this, NONE OF THE ABOVE should be a valid entry on the ballot.

        So as this election day winds down, and we prepare for the next round of political turmoil/change of PM, I am left thinking of all the trees that gallantly gave their lives so that Australians can once again waste a perfectly good day standing in queues, listening to pompous asses sprout incoherent messages and abuse to select the next incompetent fool who will “lead” the country in support of the housing and holes special interests. In my cynical haze (dunno why, but elections always have me reaching for the bundy and coke or LIIT too early in the day), I wonder why we even bother? Why not just have electronic/online voting – greens would be happy, save the environment, special interests would be happy – get the right government they paid for and the population would be happy – no more queues and crappy sausage sizzles, after all, it is exactly the same as the Saturday morning Bunnings sizzle anyway.

      • @Original John…. No way with the electronic voting, the only reason Brexit got up was because of paper votes and scrutineers. Both the Spanish and Austrian elections recently were faked ( despite paper votes – no real scrutineers.

        What we do here is pretend to lose some paper ballots to force a recount ( 2013 WA senate vote ) Always just enough votes in the right place to change things ( Thank you ASIO ) Postal vote faking is another favourite here.

      • Original John

        @nyleta – exactly the reason that the elite classes should have electronic voting. Had the UK joined the 21st Century in style with full electronic voting to go with the surveillance state, there is no way we would have had a Brexit vote and $2trillion in elite “paper losses” would have been avoided. Same for Austria, we know the outcome we want and the current system is not working like it used to, so change to technology where we can control the outcome and deliver the result we paid for! I remember some states in the US had electronic voting and the machine even helped you select the candidate you should vote for (just a little sarc, some pics were posted of voters not able to select Obama so the vote defaulted to Romney).

        It is not very often that I think Stalin might be correct, but this quote I can definitely agree with:

        “It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.”

      • haroldusMEMBER

        gunna 200. wait till the red infuriator kicks in and we might see 300 tonight!

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      checking back at circa 1430 on the first day and noticing we are tracking 150 – and that is a sparkling performance, setting a good foundation for a big (and possibly record breaking) total.

  23. Stephen Morris

    Just for the record . . . I have just returned from voting at the Whites Hill polling station where I was handed the ballot papers and told: “You just need to fill in six squares above the line on this one.”

    If AEC officials have been giving that advice to voters across the country then this Senate election is potentially subject to challenge.

    The new Senate voting rules allow voters to fill in as many squares as they choose. This is extremely important in relation to minor party votes because if a voters fills in just six squares for minor parties and if those votes are not ultimately applied to the filling of at least 11 places, then the vote will “exhaust” and some – perhaps ALL – of the vote will not have counted.

    If one or other of the major parties gain control of the Senate then there is a case to be made that voters were mis-instructed by the AEC officials.

    This is no theoretical issue. It could change the way in which the country is governed for the next three years.

    I can envisage a challenge being launched.

    • I was told “at least” 6 above before I finished the nice AEC lady’s spiel for her with “or at least 12 below”.

      She seemed impressed that I knew. I numbered 30 below the line just to be sure.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        I numbered 30 below the line just to be sure.

        Jesus! How? I struggled with 6 above!

      • 2 x legal dope parties, Sex Party, Renewable Energy Party, Voluntary Euthanasia and the Arts Party and you are most of the way there.

    • adelaide_economist

      Yes I do wonder about the quality control with these jobbies – a bit like census collectors.

      That said, I definitely got the correct spiel. Even though I knew it painfully well I just smiled and feigned interest just like I would during an airplane ‘safety briefing’ when you’re catching the third flight on the same day.

    • Report the centre to the AEC. No officials are permitted to personally advise people how to vote. They are supposed to hand them the instruction sheets. It sounds like a volunteer has overstepped the mark trying to be helpful, but that is no excuse as they are thoroughly briefed.

      • With some 40,000 people employed by the AEC, the quality control is tough. One family friend is working on a booth, and is flat out counting past 10 most days, so god knows what he is telling people.

        As pointed out elsewhere here, the senate ballot paper will be counted as a valid vote so long as a ‘1’ appears in a box above the line. It is the saving provision introduced to ensure most ballots are valid, otherwise massive informal votes would have made a mockery of the senate. Of course given that it benefits the major parties that did deals and rushed the legislation through in March is a ‘secondary’ issue…

        I asked the AEC official about the saving provisions today and he didn’t have a clue, but explained he would probably learn tonight, as he was counting too. Oh dear…

    • drsmithyMEMBER

      I read this as I was standing in line waiting, so I paid attention.

      The bloke who spoke to me said “number 1-6 above the line” and “number 1-12 or more below the line”.

      The women on either side both said “number at least 6 above the line” and “number at least 12 below the line.

      But then for the next person the bloke I spoke to said “number 1-6 or more above” and “number 1-12 or more below” .

      I for one will be fascinated to see what percentage of votes expire before they hit a major party (or anyone else in with a chance).

      • I put Labor at the bottom of my Senate for that reason. I wanted to end up with them just to minimise the chance of the Liberal party having both houses.

    • In Beijing I was told to vote at least 6 above the line and at least 12 below the line. I ended up voting 12 above the line (I stopped when I ran out of parties I could bring myself to vote for, LNP/LAB/GREEN couldn’t bring myself to vote for them or the religious and racist ones). I confirmed if my 12 above the line was valid and I was told yes. It’d better be. Is it though?

    • The video on the AEC site says “At least 6 above, or at least 12 below”. We checked on election day just to make sure we didnt screw up (I got up to the mid 30s below before I got bored). Are you saying those instructions are wrong? Would 5 above the line be valid? Would 1?

  24. St JacquesMEMBER

    “The [Singapore] government has signaled it is reluctant to lift property tightening measures it brought in over the last seven years [!] as it wants to avoid overheating in the market again. ”It is too early to relax the curbs, as doing so could result in a market rebound”, National Development Minister Lawrence Wong said in a written reply to parliament on Feb. 29. Finance Minister Heng Swee Keat reiterated that view in his budget speech on March 24, saying it was “premature” to relax the restraints.”

    That is what a genuinely responsible government looks and sounds like. The exact opposite of our clueless and corrupt political clowns and the FIRE sector’s mouthpiece, the mainstream media.

  25. St JacquesMEMBER

    Any “bets” on the election outcome? How many seats? Which will change sides?

    • Original John

      Hung parliament with do over as no party holds an outright majority to form Government followed by the hanging of parliament as the masses rise up and demand change. Military steps in and declares marshall law followed immediately my marshall committing suicide saying he wants nothing to do with this mess and is tired of his name being used in this way. Eventually calm is restored as China and the US rush humanitarian missions to country. The US misreading the mood of the people send food and temporary shelter and are slaughtered on the beaches of Bondi in a re-enactment of the D-Day landings. The Chinese send plane loads of immigrants armed with hot funds and building permits and are welcomed with open arms as the people realise that nirvana has been saved and housing prices can continue to rise uninterrupted.

      Or maybe it will just be the Lib’s lose enough seats to scare them, but retain power albeit with a hostile senate and no chance to pass any legislation.

      • GunnamattaMEMBER

        My election day candle wish is for Kelly O’Dwyer (Lib) to be rolled in a boilover, along with David Feeney (ALP), and for an LNP ‘win’ (only because I thuink they deserve what is coming) by one seat in the house, leaving them no real basis for getting up policy………and for the Senate to be a complete dogs breakfast guaranteed to smash to smithereens anything brought before if which isnt done so in just the right tone and way – with a good collection of desperado nutters to raise pertinent public points of view on each and every last issue relating to each and every last piece of legislation put to it.

      • Early results show you are on the money. Lol
        Now if gunna is also on the money this will be best result ever.

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      I’ve just been out to a school in the outer burbs of Geelong where a couple of Libs I know were somewhat gloomy about their prospects of hanging onto Corrangamite. Said they were being blown away at that site, although they didnt seem sure whether it was ALP or Greens doing the blowing away. Based their sentiments on the number of times they had their handouts rebuffed vis the others handing out bits of paper (may not be much of a guide – I rebuff all of them)

      • St JacquesMEMBER

        After what’s happened to the industrial base of the area in the last three years with closure announcements, whose main effects are yet to be felt, I’m surprised they haven’t been lynched showing their faces around there.

    • haroldusMEMBER

      Rules to live by: Never make eye contact with anyone when eating a sausage, or a banana.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        Annabel Crabb just made a joke about it! Leigh sales said I can’t believe you said that this early in the evening! Penny Wong was cracking up but Scomo struggled to find the humour. Ironic cause he’s the biggest cocksucker there.

  26. Germany v Italy! After the Welsh double victory over Brussels (Bwaahaahaahaa) this could prove the EU greatest grudge match

    • My inner movie fan says they shot a spy ship. 40nm away from the launch and hit something on the open ocean without it being guided?

  27. Guided by the fright,
    An instict persuaded by exigencies
    Emotionally crafted,
    As Prometheus the forger
    Taught our forefathers,
    Must be tempered by
    Command of the essential element

    Animals, in absence of the art of
    Zeus born conflagration
    Flee it’s destructive and unpredictable
    Man need not be so coy
    A thousand alloys besides coal
    Hardened steel or bronze
    Did Prometheus on us bestow!

    Zeus by treachery did even Titans
    Lest we falter and reverse the gains
    Control of the mind,
    Control of the myths
    Control of the language in its breadth
    And depth
    Must never be conceded.

  28. haroldusMEMBER

    So have done my triennial democratic duty. I had printed out the candidates both above and below, highlighted and wrote down my order.

    Filled out the Reps first and put it aside to wrestle the senate, which of course I put SA first (put Labor 6 as it is entirely possible my other choices wouldn’t get up and I will be dead before I vote for any party that produced the rodent and clownshoes).

    So after folding up my list, and folding the tablecloth, I couldn’t see the Reps one! Unfolded everything and spread them out again, nope. Got down on the ground and looked under the booth, nada. It was gone!

    My missus was telling me to get another one but I didn’t want them thinking I was conducting electoral fraud.

    So sheepishly I waited until the lady at the boxes was distracted and put the big one in and scurried out. Then I put the senate paper in. Boom boom!

    If the Greens get up in Sydney I’m to blame.

    Also they had vego sausages from Suzy Spoon but it looked like cooked on the same hotplate as the decaying flesh ones.

    Fun haroldus fact: been vego since October long weekend, 1994. Fattest fuckin vego in the world. I do kill a lot of yeast tho, that may have something to do with it.

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        I got to 54, but it was mainly nuts and independents after that. The new system gets a thumbs up!

        The counters could be in for a very long night.

      • @Fibro – Did you get bored of shifting the big paper so as to be able to write on it horizontally, give up, then just start writing on it vertically against the stall walls? I did…damned thing had to be folder two or three times just to get through the slot.

    • Low 50s.
      I used website that let me map it out before I went in.
      My only disappointment was that I left out the Voluntary Euthanasia party.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      30s then got bored. All there were left was majors and nutcases. Go Feral!

    • innocent bystander

      easier to find 12 individuals below the line than 6 parties/groups above

    • Above the line though struggled with the 5th and 6th. Not in a month of Sundays was I going to put any numbers against those Liberal aligned cants, gave my 6th vote to some animal welfare party, not much on offer in North Canberra.

      • Happily got to thirty in the senate, then stopped, as the prospect of putting a number against some of the shockers gave me shudders.
        The number one senate tickets of lab and lib in Victoria show just what rotten husks of parties they have become. Kim Carr and Mitch Fifield will leave wet patches on the burgandy benches for another 6 years.

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        “…as the prospect of putting a number against some of the shockers gave me shudders.

        That’s always what stopped me in the past. Just the thought of putting a number next to some of those nut jobs felt like a tacit endorsement, even if they were the very last preference.

    • FiftiesFibroShack

      Same, I just went with Dr Ruff because I couldn’t quite stomach giving the ALP 1, even though they deserve credit for having a crack at NG. Doesn’t matter much, the seat is as blue as it gets. The only place we really could make a difference was the senate.

    • QuentinMEMBER

      Fred Nile and Family First got the lowest rungs for me. Zimmerman doesn’t seem like too bad a fella but represents the LNP and their policies so hard to give him any personal uplift.

    • Sounds like a few did. I was undecided going in, but in the end I gave them my second preference after the Greens. There were just too many issues that are important to me that were completely missing from their policy manifesto.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER


      Polling booth ran out of snags so had to go the bacon & egg burger. Extra $1.50. Textbook bait and switch. Bet they never had snags to start with.

      Much like Australian politics really…

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      Yeah I am gave them top and Dave Collyer second, and then DC’s running mate third and the other SA ticket identity fourth.

  29. Well…What a Day..I have had all my pre conceived thoughts of Skippy blown away…A Wife and a Child…I had notions of him fingers poised over his laptop in a creepy Attic somewhere…talking to himself ..with that creepy “Disheveled Marsupial” being said out loud ..I often wonder about my fellow MB members…And its a bonus when you pick up a morsel..

    • yeborskyMEMBER

      Donna, I can’t help but think all of your pre-conceived thoughts are correct. We have nothing to substantiate the actual existence of a wife and child. Given the sheer number and volume of the Disheveled Marsupial’s posts on every conceivable topic, it’s unimaginable that he/it could actually hold down some form of permanent or productive employment during the short breaks, let alone help with the chores, changing the odd nappy, pruning the Winter growth etc. I have a theory that he/it has, brilliantly, devised a sophisticated computer program that, along the lines of Lorem Ipsum, can generate a fabulous amount of verbiage at will that will fill any available space instantly and which almost, but not quite, sounds similar to English.
      And I’m not giving you any of my morsels. Well, not that I know of. 😉

      • Great to see peoples ill formed biases let run rampant in the vacuum of subjective speculation. A bit of memory or deeper investigation in to the blogs bowels would remedy that imo, sadly analytical skills and lack of effort on somes part to divulge ready accessible particulars is wanting….

        Disheveled Marsupial…. talk about creepy…

  30. So, to get the correct idea about all ( eliminating incorrect/biased info )
    1.One word describe yourself
    2.Age ( or decade )
    3.One thing in your life you would/could change
    4.Your hope for Australia in the next 10 years
    Think this will help all, so don’t hold back!!

    • haroldusMEMBER

      Your optimism is touching but I think the paranoid cynical monsters (myself included) that inhabit this site will not share!

      I hope to be proved wrong.

      • Well Haroldus, I have had to be optimistic my whole life, cause Im a female Electrician , from really poor parents, I’ve spent 33 years in mining, had the sh*t kicked out of me, but I’m still optimistic….

    • Original John

      I for one think this is a blatant plan hatched by Donna and Harold to ensure that the post count exceeds 400. As such, I refuse to participate and help this cynical ruse achieve its goals!

      • haroldusMEMBER

        I can easily whip off 185 wildean bon mots to crack the quadruple century, if i’m allowed out of the doghouse.

  31. 1.Dynamic
    3.Uni Education( did Electrical Apprenticeship instead because my parents were really poor )
    4.A massive turn around , become more centric on Australian Manufacturing

    • Original John

      1. Cynical
      2. As above
      3. Way over educated (more years in unis then in primary and secondary)
      4. Beach front property in the Blue Mountains.

  32. Wow ..just wow..Great to be Shut down…should of learnt by now..heh….There’s my MB Subscription not renewed…Just leave it to the boys…sorry for interrupting…

      • Yup..love Annabel Crabb…not so much Penny Wong ( chatted to her at pointy end of plane, 2 weeks to her spearing Julia)

    • Donna….

      You pop in and ask questions about people and not topics, play victim when your desires are not met, then have the cheek to slur everyone as misogynist and then to top it off.. make a monetary threat about your MB subscription for not getting your way….

      Disheveled Marsupial…. that’s a new twist on concern trolling… is your real name Lucy btw – ?????

      • haroldus…

        I agree… Donna’s dummy spat was unprovoked as well as her projections up thread…

        Dishevel Marsupial…. shades of ZH or 4Chan….

      • Skippy, let me clarify for you, I have been a Member for 3 years, in that time I have read and listened, and not posted much.I have read all of your comments and have learnt a great deal, from yours and all the comments posted.Whilst others post about scrolling past your posts, I never do, because I might learn something valueable .My post about yourself , has obviously been misconstrued, I held you to be a professor type of a singular bent , with a cardigan with leather patches.I was delighted and then somewhat , side shifted in thought when you had a family.But , hey women are like that, we think about the person making the comment and what the comment entails….its called diversity..And no, my name is not Lucy, its Donna.

      • If that is the case one would think you would know I’m a retired stay at home dad w/ 4 kids (2 sons and 2 daughters) ranging from 20 to 12 yrs old. Wife is a Clinical paramedic and CSO and w/ working at two Universities as an educator. My past in business was in administration for a few T1 international mobs and a few startups, which a majority was in the civil – industrial construction area, to include time in the trades myself [framer/roofer, tile, plaster, protective coatings, concrete, et al].

        I had the choice 20 years ago of staying in the US or moving to Oz to start a family, with my aussie wife, would have made a lot more money in the US, but it was not a hard choice picking Oz to raise a family e.g. more cohesive society and sense of well being. Things have changed over the years, but that is more to do with the Americanization that started in earnest during the 90s, consumerism, MSM [huge export], best business practices, etc….

        If some are puzzled by my prolific comments, that is more about multiple devices than sitting in front of my PC all day long, sitting a sons sporting practices – training sessions or waiting for wife at some work place. Don’t watch much TV so its a quiver of blogs I comment at or reading academic white papers or authors perspectives.

        Disheveled Marsupial… my handle [skippy] is a rift on the TV episode – Skippy and the White Slave-Traders – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgMRIqIh2J4 – and is something I started over at naked capitalism years ago as a sign off and have stuck with it since. The disheveled bit is acknowledgment to the thousands of hours spent through various mediums to learn and interact with others wrt whom we are and how we got here… sometimes I think going back to SEER school would be a holiday of sorts…

      • Interesting back story.
        I never pigeonholed you.
        But I was always curious.
        Had you as a Jack Keurouac sort stream of consciousness type with a ctrl-c predilection.

      • Sorry EP….

        Not much of a armchair pipe smoker sort, rod and gunn, burberry brit, façonnable, ingram, paul and shark, w/ a mean collection of vintage ben sherman, and a penchant for classic sand shoes of the 70s…

        Disheveled Marsupial…. not so mean as surviving military and work environments without having a spine…. geez even then 20 years ago I coped it good coming to Oz… I would just head them off at the pass when asked if I was from Canada or the US and say just another token wayward septic come to stink up the joint… ahh the good old days…

  33. TailorTrashMEMBER

    Looks like Tony Windsor will now have to accept his limelight deprivation syndrome as a permanent condition ………

  34. haroldusMEMBER

    asbestos julie talking with a straight face about the “chaos of the Rudd Gillard Rudd years”

    Fuck me how long ’til clownshoes challenges?

    She’s also bagging out South Australians voting for Xenophon.

  35. haroldusMEMBER

    Dear christ I just realised we are about to have a Tsunami of smugness coming from Point Piper.

  36. Original John

    JHC – I was only joking earlier! It was the Bundy Bear mixed with the LIIT I swear

    “Meanwhile, Nick Xenophon looks like the new kingmaker of Australian politics.

    “This election is getting very, very close and it’s not inconceivable that we could have hung Parliament,” former Liberal treasurer Peter Costello told Channel 9. “Even if [Xenophon] is only deciding two or three of the seats in a hung Parliament, two or three is a king-maker.”

    Mind you, the whole notion of hanging the parliament if it is hung is starting to sound good given the various degrees of corruption and self interest on display tonite.

  37. Deputy Liberal leader Julie Bishop expressed frustration that Labor’s campaign – claiming the Government would privatise Medicare – had caught on.

    “Labor are boasting about the number of people they’ve deceived with this monstrous lie at the heart of their campaign,” she said.

    “It was utter rubbish, but what do you do when one party relies on a monstrous lie to get elected?”

    Wellie what part of a public good would you sub-out… cough… privatize if’n you wanted to ratchet like over time privatize [more efficient meme] the whole thing… whilst the the citizens are brought up to a slow boil like a bunch of frogs….

    Disheveled Marsupial…. its not like they have not done the same thing with everything else not nailed down…. even with increasing fail rates and cost…. Meritocracy at its finest… failure upwards….

  38. Wow..Go Skippy..!! See..thats exactly the point..You Rock! Totally dissprove probably everyones “notions”…Having being in mining and not had the chance to go to even one swimming day, one race carnival , In my 33 years …I know I’ve lost out, and you have gained…proof is in what my daughters told me…Thank you Skippy for sharing…I mean it..It really changes how I will view you…I was wrong

  39. bet in 2 beers that the little one-target parties will be on historical rise.
    Like Mary-Jane/Kaya/Ganja party etc…

  40. reusachtigeMEMBER

    It’s great to see that the coalition government are going to bring this election home. As defenders of business, profits and property they deserve to be in charge as our next boom kicks in. It’s funny how losing people on this blog actually are. LOLOLOLOL!!!

    • notsofastMEMBER


      Did you vote for Pauline?

      Should poison the immigration debate so much and have the MSM in such twists showing a few videos of uneducated Australians trying to explain their obnoxious views as the reason they voted for her that in future that the current levels of immigration will be considered low.

      Real Estate prices to the moon…

  41. I was not sure about the voting today. I did ask for clarification. If you vote above the line, vote minimum 6, but you can number as many as you want as long as it is 6 or above (can number all if you want).

    Below the line, vote 12 minimum, but you can number as many as you want as long as it is 12 or above. Hell you can number every single one if you feel like it.

    Funnily enough, right after I voted, I spoke to someone who knows someone who works at Standard and Poor’s, they said there will be a downgrade of Australia’s credit rating, after the election of course. Not sure how reliable this source is, but you guys would be expecting that anyway.

    Edit: forgot to add some rock’n’roll:


    Economic forecast soothe our dereliction
    Words of euthanasia, apathy of sick routine
    Carried away with useless advertising dreams
    Blinding children, life as autonotomes

    NatWest, NatWest-Barclays-Midlands-Lloyds
    Blackhorse apocalypse
    Death sanitised through credit
    NatWest, NatWest-Barclays-Midlands-Lloyds
    Blackhorse apocalypse
    Death sanitised through credit

    Barclays iron eagle, “33 injection”
    Sold to advertisers, computer execution line
    They give and take away, repossess and crucify
    The more you own the more you are, lonelier with cheap desire

    NatWest, NatWest-Barclays-Midlands-Lloyds
    Blackhorse apocalypse
    Death sanitised through credit
    NatWest, NatWest-Barclays-Midlands-Lloyds
    Blackhorse apocalypse
    Death sanitised through credit

    Prosperity – exports for Pol Pot
    Prosperity – Mein Kampf for beginners

    NatWest, NatWest-Barclays-Midlands-Lloyds
    Blackhorse apocalypse
    Death sanitised through credit
    NatWest, NatWest-Barclays-Midlands-Lloyds
    Blackhorse apocalypse
    Death sanitised through credit

    …And some comedy to soothe away the creepiness:

    • haroldusMEMBER

      Heavy pommy rock (not metal). Funny the poms were going pretty heavy with their guitars and mixing then. Oasis was pretty heavy if you listen to the mix.

      Was ritchie still there for this one?

      Pretty tragic story really this band.

      • yep he was, he went missing in Feb 1995 i think. i knew of them in 96-98, but only just rediscovering them now, i had no idea about the guitarist until this year actually. was never a real fan in the past, but trying to familiarize myself with their music now, & see if i’ll go out and buy their albums. I had no idea how good they were, esp the lead singer on lead guitar, not many singers can play like that.

        this one makes my heart weep:

        this one has an awesome riff, dark lyrics (richie wrote most of the lyrics, i think he had a degree in political science (like tom morello), hence the politically charged lyrics, he seemed to be such a prolific talent, but the black dog got him in the end):

        Lead singer’s guitar riff at 1min in and again at 2:30min, then spitting at the crowd at the end. Awesome!

      • haroldusMEMBER

        not many singers can play like that

        here is the best lead singer/guitarist ever. bonus – this clip filmed at the mountains


        I say to my music mates that this is the best band ever and they mock me.

        you should hear his guitar work on the most recent album. sublime.

        this one has a pretty good solo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY7fZl9Rfn0). but there are some serious tutorials on that album.

        he is really fuckin good.

    • Another one I wanted to fall.
      Happy for Libs to hold the seat, but surely they can do better than her.

    • Stupid tomato faced git. Pissed off 2 minutes after he was elected last time and suddenly showed his fatuous bonce again about 4 weeks ago making impossible promises. He was saved by a minor redistribution. There are some spots in the electorate where he wouldn’t dare show his Heinz inflated face at all.

      • I’m saying that maybe a certain section of the local population might be a little confused on the concept of representational democracy. I fully expect good old barnyard to spend more time tugging his forelock in Canberra than listening to his constituents, again, like the absentee aristocracy he aspires to be. Plus he has a giant red fat face.

  42. GunnamattaMEMBER

    I do find myself wondering how Australia’s legion of highly geared property speculators would cope with a parliament which has no clear outcome looking after the legislative side of their investment – particularly if, as appears likely, we have complete chaos in the Senate.

    On Monday we will probably have a Ratings Agency start pondering on the same

    Reminds me of an old Russian guy I once interviewed about the post USSR era who observed to me ‘chaos has a certain beauty all its own’…..

    yes, yes yes!!!!!!

  43. bzunicaMEMBER

    Wow, Andrew Bolt going off chops about how woeful Malcolm Turnbull is and calling on him to resign even if he is able to form government. The dust hasn’t even settled on this yet and the far right is already calling for Tony mk II. If this is a portent of things to come then…pass the popcorn, civil war in the LNP

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      I’m so happy I’m crying!

      This is what Australia needs. A completely impotent Torynuff government in power, prostrating themselves before nutters in the senate on the weirdest pieces of legislation, right as the economy sails off the flat earth that is contemporary Australia, as the economic current pushes them towards the edge.

      Dont think of it as painful, think of it as educational……

      • And no changes to negative gearing… no-one will be able to say that the removal of NG was the cause of housing ‘negative price growth’

      • This truly is great, isn’t it?! Pretty much the best case scenario; a divided lame duck LNP bumbling along while the country runs into a once in a century economic reset, with zero changes to any housing related policies so there’s nothing for recency bias to attach to except said LNP government.

        This is an excellent outcome for Australia’s future; seriously.

      • “This truly is great, isn’t it?!”

        Until Turbull tries to change super, or basically does anything that displeases the far right of the party, and then we’ll end up with Abbott (or worse) as PM again. Back to the truly poisonous and chaotic politics that were the hallmark of Abbott’s time as Opposition Leader and PM! I went to bed early, and maybe his mood soured later, but Abbott sounded really happy and buoyant around 9 pm. I think we’re actually in for some ugly politics in the years to come.

      • That’s the beautiful thing… even if they put a total nutjob in, they’ll be a very weak government unable to get things through the senate (or even the lower house for that matter). They have zero mandate to do anything at all really; they ran on essentially no policies.

        They’ll be a lame duck government.

      • +1 best result i could’ve hoped for. Next 3 years in oz under this regime is Australia’s best hope for a great future thereafter.

      • “They have zero mandate to do anything at all really; they ran on essentially no policies.”

        True! I only just checked the news (I didn’t have time before work this morning). I had no idea what a beautiful democratic mess the Australian people had created!

      • Locus of ControlMEMBER

        A telling outcome. Here’s my dissection.

        The swing away from Liberal, move towards Labor and increase in votes for minor parties and independents is symptomatic of the economic environment. Haves (Liberal voting) and have-nots (Labor and other voters) are now just about equal in number, hence the hung parliament. The economic downturn seems to be most felt, if the election results are any guide, in mining-downturn afflicted Queensland and rust-belt South Australia and Tasmania.The mining downturn is yet to hit Western Australia with the same vehemence as Queensland, perhaps because coal is mined to a lesser extent in WA and the last of the big mining investment expenditure is still working its way through the pipeline in WA (i.e. although unemployment is trending up in WA it’s yet to reach Qld levels – trend May 2016 ABS data confirms that is so too – 5.6% WA vs. 6.4% Qld). Hence Liberals are hanging in there in WA. I suspect it takes about 12 months of under- or unemployment for someone to make the transition from aspirational (i.e. Liberal supporting, likes entitlements like negative gearing, can afford private health and private schooling so less concerned about what’s going on in the public sector in those areas, etc.) to bitter and/ or scared. Once bitter and/ or scared they either turn to Labor for comfort (like the strong social security safety net offered by Labor) or vent their anger and bitterness against immigrants (unfortunately the much lesser number of genuine refugees usually cop the blame due to MSM prominence and recent bitter parliamentary bickering about the issue) and here we see this dissatisfaction crop in the popularity of the likes of One Nation and Lambie. If you put yourself in the shoes of a recently unemployed, relatively unskilled worker (say, left school at fifteen; minimal further training afterwards) you can see why they’re angry – five years ago they gave up their shelf stacking job at Woolies and got a job through a friend of a friend at a minesite in remote Qld/WA and began earning a six figure sum for leaning on a shovel all day. Now the mining investment has stopped, they’re unemployed and their job as a taxi-driver/ shelf-stacker/ trolley-collecter/ process-worker has been taken by a 457 visa-holder or recent immigrant. Of course they’re angry – they can’t feed their family – they feel marginalised and disenfranchised.

        No matter who takes government when the results come in, if the economic situation pans out according to the MB playbook (mining investment unwind continues, loss of AAA credit rating, etc) over the next few years, I expect full-blown discontent to be manifest in the results at the next election. I.e. full transition to Labor, seeking their safety net; lots of independents; complete disillusionment with Liberals. The only way to fund Labor’s good health/ education safety net/ policies shall be complete economic and tax reform by then. Australians shall have to give up their ‘entitlement largesse’ in the form of family tax benefits, tax subsidies for housing and super, etc. and business shall have to pay its share (no more of this lower tax for business = more revenue for business = more money to employ people). I expect much wailing and gnashing of teeth to ensue as the electorate seeks the best of both worlds as it has in the past… I’ll be tuning in on MB in the meantime. And going through lots and lots of popcorn.

    • They do have a tendency to eat their own if any weakness is perceived… same goes for the Torie-lite right wing of the labour party…

      Dishevled Marsupial…. file under Herbert Spencer’s Lamarckian “Survival of the Fittest” meme in an heraldic transmission… sadly he spent his latter years a reformed Conservative having been considered a progressive in his younger years and a perpetual hypochondriac…

      • J Lambie said last night mal should step down, then someone on panel asked her to repeat what she said and she backpeddled. Yes Mal should step down, tres mal.

    • FiftiesFibroShack

      There couldn’t have been a better result.

      The nuts were losing it before the result looked this close, the delusions of an Abbott victory still in their minds, their delusion driving them to sabotage their own party until they have an acceptable nut to lead them.

      Conservative politics is going to be more entertaining than anything Hollywood can offer, well, until they make some more Alien prequels, or Weekend at Bernie’s III.

    • His knifing was a necessary loss….. Soon I will have a new apprentice, one far younger and more powerful.

      • Original John

        I think I still have a little belief in human kind some where in me, so I can in no way claim to be a total cynic, just cynical. Guess that leaves plenty of room on the spectrum for you 🙂

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      St Mal can’t negotiate. He can only bully from a position of power.

      NXTs, Hinch, Lambsies, Hansons, Greens, Wilkie, Katter. All this on top of the AAA rating about to go and St Mal’s balls in a vice over Medicare and Super.

      This is going to be laugh-a-minute. Anyone mentioned the ABCC?

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Tipping time!

        St Mal cobbles together a gubmint. Front bench reshuffle. ScoMo sacked for general incompetence. ScoMo gets stoned with our Tony and Dutton at the Bolta’s house and everyone is convinced that our Tony should be returned.

        He’s back!

      • Doesn’t matter. His strategy now is to drag the “negotiation” on for 18 months or so until he qualifies for the fat pension. Then retire to become a special adviser to MQG.

        Oh, and don’t forget to create enough mess which MQG can exploit with exotic products.

  44. A good over view….

    Then and Now

    “Since 2014, even the IMF has changed its stance. In its October 2014 World Economic Outlook, it advised that “debt-financed projects could have large output effects without increasing the debt-to-GDP ratio, if clearly identified infrastructure needs are met through efficient investment”.

    There is, of course, one difference between now and the 1930s. The finance sector and rating agencies are much more influential and powerful now than then. Democratically elected governments have become hostage to money-market investors who shift money from one place to another in search of quick profits.

    Governments should not be driven by superficial diagnoses of complex economic issues by rating agencies. The record of rating agencies before the 2008 global economic crisis was abysmal, and the US Congress has seriously debated whether they should be prosecuted. Trying to win their confidence is futile, and trying to anticipate them is hazardous, but they nevertheless hold finance ministries and central banks to ransom.”


    Disheveled Marsupials… economics is not what most people think it is….

    • Maybe this will help….

      Instant message exchange between two unidentified Standard & Poor’s officials about a mortgage-backed security deal on 4/5/2007:
      Official #1: Btw (by the way) that deal is ridiculous.
      Official #2: I know right…model def (definitely) does not capture half the risk.
      Official #1: We should not be rating it.
      Official #2: We rate every deal. It could be structured by cows and we would rate it.

      A former executive of Moody’s says conflicts of interest got in the way of rating agencies properly valuing mortgage backed securities.

      Former Managing Director Jerome Fons, who worked at Moody’s until August of 2007, says Moody’s was focused on “maxmizing revenues,” leading it to make the firm more “issuer friendly.”

      Disheveled Marsupial… Btw ref – Hung Parliament… must have been all the phallic imagery put to ballot paper…. see what you have done now – !!!!!

  45. scomo is a very optimistic man.
    No mandate for LNP in the parliament.
    No mandate for Turnbull within the Liberal party.
    No control in the senate.
    Maybe scomo thinks his numbers look good for a leadership vote in few months time?

  46. Unequivocally Christmas in July for the ALP. No-one, not even the late Bob Ellis, thought Labor under Bill Shorten would have Turnbull’s measure just nine months ago. They have come as close as anyone could have expected. Have smashed a margin gained by one of the most unlikely, unpopular leaders ever in Tony Abbott. Reduced the Man Who Was Meant To Be … to perhaps a two or three seat majority.

    Turnbull, bereft of any political capital, will spend the remaining short few months of an embattled leadership desperately trying to effect anything resembling a legacy that befits his imperious ambition. But there will be nothing left for him after the rise of the nutters in his own party and the Senate other than some rueful dinner party anecdote prompted by his grandson to tell us about that time you were Prime Minister, granddad …

    Well, Jack …. there’s nothing much to tell, really

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      ‘Grandpa, how did your government negotiate a Senate which included Derryn Hinch, Pauline Hanson and Jacqui Lambi over any legislation which made it past your fellow Torynuff nutters in the House?’

      well, we always found that baying at the moon from the back balcony of Kiribilli for three nights, and then accosting them while accoutered with Papuan ceremonial gourds helped. It didnt get legislation through, but it was certainly cathartic…..especially if wearing the TestosterTone Hessian underpants with ground glass inserts

  47. haroldusMEMBER

    Tim Wilson wins goldstein! Has that fucker ever had a non-taxpayer job in his life?

  48. So who will be the new dear leader? Back to you Tony? Or perhaps Jules. They have Goodenough who is Goodenough if nothing else works.

  49. GunnamattaMEMBER

    I think Malcolm is now leaving it so long to appear on election night that it is starting to look as though he is being dragged kicking and screaming to talk to the nation. It isnt a good look.

    and when he does turn up that smile looks fake, the bonhommie forced, and the reference to JWH enough to make his worst enemy cringe…….

    Then time for a porky or two.

    It is going to be a superb next few years politically. I am going to enjoy this.

    • As much as I’d like to enjoy it, part of me feels like it’s going to die inside while watching it all unfold…

  50. Checking out Leichhardt, for sentimental reasons, and I find that I know the Greens candidate. He would run rings around Warren Entsch.
    Full Stop.
    Labor and Liberal are both bleeding talent due to their refusal to leave the Howard world that never was. The shame is that these candidates of quality are not voted in because they have the integrity and the intelligence to not just go to established two. And all the while the MSM pisses in our eye by refusing to discuss anything outside of press releases.
    When we do tack course it will be due to desperation, not preparation.
    Batten down folks. Batten down.

  51. Mining BoganMEMBER

    Woohoo! Someone finally mentioned the ABCC! After eight weeks it only took a tired and emotional Malcolm Turnbull to do it. After votes are vounted.

    My day is complete.

    • Yep none of them mentioned it during the campaign. But then again they did not bring the big issues as well just ask Tony. Lol
      Border protection the big issue according to Tones. Don’t worry about the economy we can’t waste time inspecting ants.

  52. Hinch’s ‘Justice Party’ currently has over 110,000 first preferences in the Victorian Senate. It looks like Derryn is hooked up to the Gravy Train for the next three years.
    David Collyer and his electoral partner are sitting at 1,725.
    Animal Justice are doing far better than I thought possible at 30,000+
    Mr. Collyer should have run under a sort of economic justice banner.
    Renter’s Justice (probably too subhuman).
    People’s Justice.
    Regardless, good on him for running.
    Hopefully the preferences fall his way, in a big way.

    • And I just heard a good Hinch story.
      Hinch is waiting for a liver transplant.
      The anesthetist says “What do you do for a living?”
      Hinch says “I’m Darryn Hinch.”
      The anesthetist says “Yes, I can read your name, what do you do for a living?”
      Hinch turns to the nurse and says “Can you f$%^ing tell this person who I am.”

      • St JacquesMEMBER

        And the nurse turned to the anaesthetist and said “he’s the country’s number one emergency services chaser”.

  53. Where is Gramus? Where is Researchtime?
    We need your comment on the night’s events.

    • 3d1k would be having an existential crisis right about now… more profound than coming down off an 8 ball of coke…

      Disheveled Marsupial… probably have all the TVs on in their abodes for white noise and towels over the windows too keep out the sun light… whilst scrounging for the parachutes… if any are left over from handing them out as sticky candy for the attention of their affections…

      • 3d is fine, we pretty much all saw this coming, good luck getting any NG reform, or any other – maybe China will come to the rescue again….

      • Mig….

        You and 3d can’t even get money right [and no working as a quant in finance does not make you an authority on the subject as does ideological preferences], nor does the two of you seem to have a sound footing on the history of period in question, its substituted by truisms which on such occasion they coincide w/ events… proclaim all was seen, was inevitable, was foretold, and then preach to the unwashed for not taking heed in the first place…. its just proselytizing…

        The big blind spot in all of this is these sorts are actually the ones that advocate for the conditions which set things in motion from the first order of acts, not unlike rapture ready breathers…. the answers always proceed the observations or questions…

        Disheveled Marsupial…. one would think the verdict on neoliberalism is apparent, albeit those that swing that way, too various degrees, are now petrified about a hard swing of the pendulum they set in motion decades ago, in the first place, and in resisting or refusing to give up any ground actually acerbate things…. its like a bizarre feed back loop…. no wonder Hayek et al lost the plot… not that like minds with squillions back in the day found refuge in those thoughts…

      • Dude you lost the plot long before hyaeke! WTF are you talking authority on money? There’s no such thing! There’s not even a definition for money how can you have experts? You’re so full of shit it makes the shearing shed look clean. I am something of an authority on enterprise integration, and Bitcoin works just as well as any other integrated system, taxes payable or not.. If you’re theory that money is defined by its payment of taxes is correct, why would corporation devalue their assets by not paying tax? Genius, and that goes for all your adoring admirers apparently…

      • Mig….

        Just like over at NC when you tried to play rhetorical games with Ben, the whole thing boils down to laws, been that way from day one in antiquity. Bitcon has nothing to do with that perspective and just reinforces the desire of your camp [anCap – volunteerism or whatever new flavor of the day its called] to – one day – live in some utopian stateless reality… might have something to do with the whole pathological tendencies of such ridged philosophical thinkers.

        The worst part today is the sub par knowlage its practitioners willfully exhibit on a regular basis, back in antiquity when they say the state you have to contextualize it to the period e.g. the state has more to do with religion than it does the nation state. In fact this goes back to the earliest periods of what we now call main stream religions, too include both western and eastern philosophy.

        Disheveled Marsupial… Sovereign money is what the law defines it to be… full stop… everything else is just a means of exchange… gold, bitcon, equities, et al….

  54. TailorTrashMEMBER

    From the ABC…..”Whoever takes power after this election is going to do so knowing that almost a third of all Australians voted for someone other than Labor or the Coalition”………………this is the “Australian Trump vote ” ……..just waiting for a Trump to appear and then it will get a lot more than 30%

    • In a living room of 10 people, 4 of them rusted on Liberal drinking crown lager but all of them coffin dodgers, 3 rusted on Labor drinking an IPA they don’t really like but are half heartedly enthusing about and 1 greenie flicking his eyes between his watch and the thermostat hoping the party is over soon so he can go home, sipping at a cider. The other two? Shouting at each other in the corner trying to start a fight over the bottle of bundy.

      Penny Wong might be more erudite than Scott Morrison but she and the rest of them are living in some kind of fantasy world where if they keep edging ever rightward and wondering why their vote is disappearing. The ALP is doomed if they keep on that trajectory.

      • +1 The gravitation pull of the right and the use of modern marketing to convince working and middle class to vote against their best interests is a hard force to resist.

        It was interesting that Rupnews polls showed the swing yesterday but hid the results on the inside pages.

  55. Their wasting no time….

    “As the underwhelming performance of the Coalition became clearer and clearer on Saturday night, the fingers of blame were being pointed with gusto in the Channel 7 studio – at Malcolm Turnbull.

    You’re the king of the bed-wetters actually. You are actually a grub

    An extraordinary barney broke out between Sydney shock jock Alan Jones, a supporter of Tony Abbott, and Queensland LNP Senator James McGrath, one of Mr Turnbull’s principal numbers men in the September leadership coup.”


    Disheveled Marsupial… seems like human sacrifices are back in vogue….

      • No meds required.

        Di Natale is a straight out liar, fact, targeting dumb naive mostly young voters.

      • What a blindingly ridiculous comment.

        Only an idiot would conclude from what I say that I’m a racist. tone down the epithets please – Spambot – For all your spambot enquiries [email protected] the reason I’m attacking the Greens. They are a deluded group of clowns destroying Australia with their bizarre left view of everything that never adds up..

  56. Aussies voted for the government they deserve. I.e. no government at all. Free for all Banana Republic anyone?

    Can we just hand back full power to the Queen and get Prince George appointed as Viceroy?

    • St JacquesMEMBER

      I see it more akin to Australians collectively exercising the only power they actually have, which is to throw a spanner into the works.

    • Mav…

      When out of all the histrionics, put out there, and events unpacked… the best your sort can do is crack a fat about voters and boomers… and if you can’t get the fundamentals right what does that say about the rest the perspective…

      Disheveled Marsupial…. if you look out the window you might find its a – global problem – and as such boomers and voters do not have the agency you ascribe to them…

  57. Hill Billy 55MEMBER

    WOW!!! We’ll have a re-run in 9 to 12 months, especially if its LNP that form the govt!

    • I am getting the sense that it will be within 12 months but I would suggest there is going to be another attempt to “fix” the senate voting method.

  58. Australia tackling climate change to save the reef is beyond laughable. If it could be saved (which it can’t, carbonic acid alone will kill it, let alone warmer waters), Australia alone will do it yeah?

    What a disappointing result for Greens.

    Australians are waking up to your BS.

    The best Australia can do is limit population in Australia so there’s fewer people living in fewer livable locations as warming occurs.

    The Greens have this so wrong it’s ridiculous. Why? No science or logic behind what they do, They think like ten year olds.

      • Yes, I’m sure I do. It’s because I’m making sense and Greens voters don’t deal in making sense.

        They deal with fantasy, where they all vote for a party that’s going to save the reef when in fact (literally) they can’t. Or populate Australia AND SAVE the environment. Yep, I’m the one that’s crazy.

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        It’s sort of amusing in a child having a tantrum at the supermarket kind of way.

      • Fiftiesfibro

        Tantrum yes, because my country is full of idiots

        “With every day that passes there’s another 1000 new Australians, making Greens entire mantra harder to achieve” I can’t make it clearer.

      • Richard…

        “Tantrum yes, because my country is full of idiots”

        How do you arrive at this conclusion… and is your superiority self awarded….

      • @skippy

        “How do you arrive at this conclusion”

        By understanding nothing Greens say is achievable while they ignore population, but people vote for them anyway.

        Knowing that even if Australia stopped producing carbon it would make zero global difference. By knowing the reef can’t be saved, it’s too late.

        Australians are idiots. Particularly Greens voters. At least LNP voters are getting rich while they fk the country.

      • Richard…

        “By understanding nothing Greens say is achievable while they ignore population”

        Argumentum ad absurdum e.g. argues that the denial of the assertion would be ridiculous or arguing that the denial of the premise would result in a logical contradiction i.e. the Greens are pro informed population management conta your accusations otherwise and one policy point does not supersede all the others as policy formatting is inclusive of all aspects… there is no magic one trick unicorn pony that will fix everything….

        Disheveled Marsupial… furthermore I’m not compelled by your constant button pushing on – one – aspect of a multidimensional problem set… its illogical…

      • ” one policy point does not supersede all the others”

        Skip, population is the biggest determinant in environmental damage. It’s the issue. Stop avoiding the obvious.

        You can’t put a fire out with a garden hose while there’s a new tanker of petrol pored onto the fire.

      • Richard….

        I’m not the one avoiding here, you are… you pick one data point out of a multivariate problem set and make it out to be the final solution… this is false…

        You can’t even bring yourself to agree or disagree with any other part of their policy, just the one on stopping – all – immigration. Which imo contrary to your beliefs means everthing else is their fault after decades of both lib and labs supporting the same policy before the greens were on the map.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. your entire line of argument is a logical – rhetorical fallacy… that you don’t get that or feign not getting is the silly part…

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      The Green voting against the original ETS was the moment they decided tokenism is more important than dealing with reality. They are about the fantasy of action ratger than action itself.

      • Ronin8317…

        Politics is messy and full of compromises… the Howard years were possibly the worst because it was just one huge false positive and that enable a lot of bad faith bargaining on the Lib side of the table, which in turn increased the rightward movement of the labour party to be competitive. Now its become stratified to the point of no return for most and functional compromises are hard yacka after filling the electorates heads full of lines in the sand.

        The worst part of it is how much do some – believe – in the econnomic clap trap they were sold and how much they just – feign – for public PR purposes so the proles don’t get any silly ideals.

        Dishevels Marsupial… things get real frisky when the purists arrive and shoot first and ask questions latter…. Ronin your not going to find utopia… there are compounds for that and the results don’t look very appealing either….

    • greedypuppyMEMBER

      Richard… how did your party of preference Rise Up Australia go on sat?

  59. Had dinner with some Greens voters last night. Lots of beer. Drunk talk turned to politics. After being comprehensively overwhelmed with logic, eventually the Greens voters said, it’s okay science will help us adapt to a huge population while the globe warms.

    I said what if it doesn’t. After stunned silence, their answer was “it always has done”.

    LOL. They have no plan, their plan is we’ll make a plan after we’ve destroyed the place. In fact their plan sounds like it would more fit with corporate Australia and the LNP than an environmental/humanitarian party.

    Greens should be kept as far away from power as possible, they think like 5 year olds.

    • Richard…

      Before you blow you mental spleen to smithereens you might want to consider that the plural anecdotal is not facts…


      The Australian Greens believe that:

      The current level of population, population growth and the way we produce and consume are outstripping environmental capacity. Australia must contribute to achieving a globally sustainable population and encourage and support other nations to do the same.
      Our environmental impact and ecological footprint is not determined by population numbers alone, but by a range of factors including per capita consumption patterns and levels, distribution of resources, agricultural practices for domestic consumption and export, levels and types of industrial activity and production, urban design and transport options.
      Australia’s population policy should be determined by its commitment to:
      ecological sustainability;
      global and domestic social justice and equity, including women’s rights;
      intergenerational equity;
      international human rights obligations; and
      decent wages and conditions for all workers.
      Population policy should not be primarily driven by economic goals or to counter the effects of an ageing population.
      Population policy should consider the geographical distribution of human settlements in addition to population size at the national level.
      Australia has an obligation to accept humanitarian migration, including that resulting from climate change.
      The continuing rapid increase in the human population is drastically affecting national and international outcomes in environmental sustainability, human health and welfare, and other areas. Current rates of resource use are not sustainable and are compounded by inequitable distribution of wealth and power.


      The Australian Greens want:

      A reduction in Australia’s use of finite natural resources to a level that is sustainable and socially just.
      Human settlements which are:
      designed and built to minimise environmental harm and maximise social well-being; and
      located in areas where their ecological impact is minimised.
      Full implementation by Australia of the 1994 United Nations International Conference on Population and Development Programme of Action, including:
      increasing our contribution to programs that empower women and increase their access to a wide range of safe family planning options;
      increasing our overseas aid budget to a minimum of 0.7% of GNI;
      ensuring that overseas aid to the world’s poorest, which often include women, is focussed on clean water and sanitation, education and high quality accessible health services, including sexual and reproductive health services;
      community debate about population, acknowledging that there are complex issues involved in population policy, including:
      limits to unsustainable growth and resource use;
      the survival of other species and ecosystems;
      women’s rights, and especially education and access to family planning;
      unsustainable resource use; and
      the inequitable distribution of wealth and power.


      Skip here… nowhere can I find the cause of your manic panic about flooding the country with immigrants to explode the population like a mouse plague, hence you come off like your hyperventilating which imo does not forward your case.

      Disheveled Marsupial…. it is a complicated issue which is compounded by lots of corruption all around and for some time, historically it does not workout so well for country’s which close the gates or roll the boulder over the cave entrance….

      • Skip. I’ll start by saying I am not talking about refugees. I’m talking about Greens failure to oppose LNP and Labor on their invited skilled and able migrants.

        “A reduction in Australia’s use of finite natural resources to a level that is sustainable and socially just”

        1. So let’s say we each consume 100 units of stuff.
        2. Greens want us to reduce that to 50 units of stuff (sensible sustainable policy).
        3. Double population, now we’re consuming 25 units of stuff.

        Do Greens voters realise it’s them too that have to reduce their consumption to 25 units of stuff?

        What does 25 units of stuff look like? Fiji? Peru?

        All good, someone like me lives like that anyway, but the bizarre thing is most Greens I know are rich, drive new cars, renovate their houses every few years, eat out all the time, have new furniture.

        And the biggest one, don’t even consider population as an environmental issue. It is mind numbing.

        They are a walking contradiction but because they eat organic oats and recycle their plastic milk cartons, think they’re saving the planet. I’m sick to death of watching it and listening to their (Greens) BS.

      • Richard….

        Your rationalizations are just anecdotal mental piffle…

        A. policy is only a framework e.g. the details are a workout which is supported by the best scientific information through the political process. The fact that AGW and consumption for the sake of consumption in a globalized economy means first movers might suffer in the near term, but will definitely be ahead of the curve in the medium to long term. Everyone will eventually have to come to the party if all hell does not break out first. Imo just getting rid of Planned Obsolescence would greatly reduce the need for conspicuous consumption and the attendant Bernays head adjustment of humans for profit… would sort a lot of that.

        B. If the political process is impaired do to decades of ideological capture and complicated by the embracing of lots of false positives, that has to be sorted first, not an easy task considering decades of social PR and tribalism filtering down through the population… bias inherently results in systemic bias – institutional bias, which then is further complicated by monetary influences in politics. Just the Cog Dis that would create could cause more problems if pushed to hard, societies have a hard time adjusting unless a real threat is perceived to the well being of all… say natural disasters where group altruism overcomes more individual concerns. Otherwise the loon pond will scream totalitarianism and might sweep up a significant percent of the population in the process.

        C. Next you have the elites which over sometime have become to think they are infallible, self awarded imo, and are not used to admitting to screwing the pooch, has a tendency to take the hard work off burnishing their image down a few notches and loosing their grip on the societal narrative. Which is made even more complicated by the fact that the elites as a whole is not some homogeneous entity, with a hive mind, they scrap and stick elbows out all the time, factions and splintering occurs all the time. Some times right down the middle, this is when the greatest changes occur for better or worse.

        Disheveled Marsupial… this is all made more complex and difficult because of the ideological intransigence ongoing, because vested interests have wrapped themselves with as a branding – marketing tool.

        PS. if you look at America, EU and periphery countries you might want to count yourself “lucky”….

      • Oh dear. That Skippy copy pasta of Greens website made perfect sense!!

        I am looking out the window to see if pigs are flying….Nope.. But I will still pine for the day when Richard aka Rich43 aka Rich42 comments makes perfect sense.

      • Always good to see you address the information Mav… is it too hard… worried about actually unpacking what your disagreements might be and then expose your self to rebuttal… or is the depth of your perspective so shallow that the most one can expect is dismissive commentary…

        Btw I’m not a green, the point of order is Richards hyperventilating about population wrt Australia and how everything – is – the greens fault, contrary to the greens publicly stated policy on the matter. I mean he said up thread that he would – destroy – the greens if he did not get his way…. Not that both major parties have over some decades helped create the problems we now face, especially when both were marching to the same music, but with different dance styles. On can easily argue the Greens are actually a result of failures of both major parties, not like the Greens are out their crippling the others in back alley ways…

        Disheveled Marsupial…. It seems Richard has more going on that he will admit… so uses the population hot button talking point past its utility capacity… he and others including yourself can’t seem to address the totality of their policy and cling to the one thing you might influence others with… its a variant on concern tolling fyi…

      • @Mav.

        I think your lack of intellect is fairly established, so I want to help. Which part doesn’t make sense?

    • “…science will help us adapt to a huge population while the globe warms.”

      We’re becoming way too reliant on quick technological fixes to increasingly complex and dangerous problems. We’ve see a similar complacency and overconfidence around antibiotic resistant bacteria. Personally I think this mindset (which i’ve been guilty of myself int he past) is actually a recipe for extinction.

      • Good comment.

        I want Greens to stop lying. Start talking logically to their constituents about the devastating affect of LNP and Labor’s Big Australia policies.

        Well meaning Greens voters need educating.

      • All that said, i’m sure you can find voters across all parties that hold the exact views you just ascribed. I’m far more interested in policies than the opinion of a few voters. And yes it is an area where I feel the party needs to have a clearer policy direction, but poltically i understand why they don’t want to touch it. Like i’ve said in the past, the right wing media would utterly vilify them if they went hard on immigration levels.

      • “but poltically i understand why they don’t want to touch it. Like i’ve said in the past, the right wing media would utterly vilify them if they went hard on immigration levels”

        Probably true. It has to be done smart. Do it via social media not necessarily from the Greens. Or do it now, 3 years out so there’s time for the debate to unfold and voters to digest the truth.

        Otherwise they are just a contradiction; worse than doing nothing. Presently Greens are in the way of a real environmental party arriving, and that’s hurting Australia.

        With every day that passes there’s another 1000 new Australians, making Greens entire mantra harder to achieve.

      • “Start talking logically to their constituents about the devastating affect of LNP and Labor’s Big Australia policies.”

        That’s fair enough.

  60. haroldusMEMBER

    have a 4yo climbing on my back and sticking her face in front of the computer so i think she wants some attention.

    but – wouldn’t lots of malcolm’s problems be solved by making abbott speaker?

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      I know that sensation, late last night I had a 3 YOU girl coming in every 5 minutes wanting daddy to look at fish pictures with her (she loves looking at fish!). She fell asleep on the stepladder alongside my desk after I setup computer 2 for her to look at fish (one of those fish music videos)………..

      If Abbott becomes speaker could the Torynuffs risk that? Would he get a helicopter allowance?

      • Abbott should be the Ambassador to the Vatican-he can hold hands and exchange old time stories with the morally repellant George Pell

  61. GunnamattaMEMBER

    some morning observations – Note Shane Oliver’s

    Dave has been calling the removal of the AAA for some time – I reckon it happens within days

    Shane Oliver – AMP

    Michelle Grattan – The Conversation

    Front page of the Sun – Herald, Malcolm tightens the noose….

    a glimpse (not sure how accurate) of the new senate….

    Being tweeted by Greg Jericho…

    The Medicare SMS which was apparently sent out in QLD.

    • FiftiesFibroShack

      Dave has been calling the removal of the AAA for some time – I reckon it happens within days

      Surely they need to wait until the senate rejects any savings measures – or the LNP rejects its own measures (Super) – before they cut the rating.

      Ratings are becoming increasingly political, but a cut without seeing how the parliament functions would be fairly extreme. Even if a cut was planned for after the election – regardless of the result – they would need to be very careful and make it clear this is based on economic factors, not political shenanigans.

      • Original John

        Not really, remember S&P failed to comment after the federal budget was released. So it is now in the realm of possibility that we get a rating cut soon. The government situation now is worse then at the budget thus calling into doubt the ability to bring the budget back to surplus or pass necessary funding legislation through a divided senate, creates political uncertainity and risk.

      • See comment above this thread….

        “Governments should not be driven by superficial diagnoses of complex economic issues by rating agencies. The record of rating agencies before the 2008 global economic crisis was abysmal, and the US Congress has seriously debated whether they should be prosecuted. Trying to win their confidence is futile, and trying to anticipate them is hazardous, but they nevertheless hold finance ministries and central banks to ransom.”

        Disheveled Marsupial… Seems the old ‘bricoleur’ trick still has legs….

    • Some good old ar$e covering by Shane Oliver there. AAA was a goner even before the elections purely based on economic outcomes as predicted by Dave. Now, Shane is trying to pin that on the political outcome from the election.

      Bank economists (Shane in particular) have lost any respect I may have had for them.

    • the senate reform bill as a risk management policy on an rapid kangaroo senate forming in the event of a DD doesn’t seem to have done much good for the major parties.

      How will we go on an ICAC bill now?

  62. haroldusMEMBER

    anyone know how the senate’s looking? as far as I can see there are disappointingly few ferals. will the tories have a majority? if not malcolm has fucked it pretty badly.

    if i was labour i’d let ’em have it and sit back and watch the show

  63. Anyone run a magnet over their voting strip to see the ballot paper float?
    The bar code QR code last time was printed in black ink.

  64. So Labor warning voters about what Turnbull might do to Medicare is considered a scare campaign, but Turnbull telling voters that their house would be worth less if they vote Labor is not??? I can not imagine any head of state anywhere in the world would tell his people “if you vote for the opposing party, your house would be worth less”. This is definitely a first and should have been brought under more scrutiny by the media and the regulation agencies.

  65. It’s a bit rich for the Coalition to complain about Labor’s Medicare scare campaign! The Abbott Opposition run some of the most vicious scare campaigns in recent history. Does anyone remember the Joyce’s $100 roast?! More importantly, voters know the Coalition is not really committed to Medicare, or its values. We’ve all seen it slowly be gutted by consecutive Coalition government over the years.

    They really need to stop crying about the result, it’s undignified. Much like the Rudd/Gillard governments this government was awful and got what it deserved.

    • They didn’t get what they want so they will cry.
      Every time that something is more difficult than they think it should be they won’t try to figure out how to make it work, or look to compromise, they’ll have a dummy spit.
      Being the party in power the onus should be on them to ensure things get done, and acknowledge their role in why it couldn’t. Neither of those things will occur.
      The adults weren’t in charge last time, and it doesn’t look like they’ve found any to take control this time.
      We should try to enjoy the show because we pay for this farce in every possible way.

    • The coalition has had only one agenda…. privatize it… fixed….

      Disheveled Marsupial…. then everything is the will of the markets… no agency involved… freedom and liberty served…

  66. bzunicaMEMBER

    So how does this play out economically? What does it do to Business and Consumer confidence? What is the RBA’s next move, can they cut without knowing who will form government? What does it do for our standing overseas? There are already calls that the AAA could be gone in short order. Interesting times and I’m glad I’m not in the business of predicting what will happen next.

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      Pop yourself in the mind of the vaguely aware highly leveraged property speculator.

      You’re probably have a sense the budget is knackajima’d
      You probably have the idea the government will want to restore that budget in some way
      You are probably aware that the ALP proposed removing negative gearing, and that housing affordability is all of a sudden starting to get some traction

      You’ve always thought real estate was rock solid because the real estate and banking lobby has the major parties by the short hairs

      …….but now the major parties have turned to salt in the electorates eyes, and quite plausibly lost control to do all that much.

      The AAA could easily be gone by the end of the week. They have already said the path to budget surplus needs to be firmed up. Now they would be seeing the political economy fracturing the major party consensus which had that as a national priority.

      But more than that they would also be seeing the easiest way to restore that balance would be to address superannuation and negative gearing, not bullyrag single mothers and sick people (which isnt going to fix the budget anyway)

      The car industry starts departing in about 12 weeks. The RBA gets a new governor about then too. The iron ore price is circa 10% below where the May 2016 budget forecast had it. Whoever makes government needs ‘cuts’ already. Anything they decide on has to get past their own backbenchers and then the senate – now including Hanson & Hinch.

      Real estate is the most expensive in the world
      Private debt is the worlds largest (95% on real estate)
      The competitive position of the economy is parlous in the extreme.

      popcorn, let us have some popcorn

      • GunnamattaMEMBER

        If I was it would be of the lets get rid of superannuation concessions and negative gearing kind.

        But I am more of the view we now need to spend to get some form of economic activity happen, probably tighten up on the population ponzi and non productive investment, and generally tell some speculative types that the budget isnt providing them an eternal put anymore.

        There isnt a painless way out of this from here

      • I enjoy reading it like that. It’s just not possible this can carry on the way it is.

      • The BIS and IMF are increasingly aware of the total failure of austerity, how that plays out wrt regional politics and elites is a sticky point, not that we have not been down this road before…

        Sure the top can take a hair cut and lay off the sauce, whats good for the gander is equally good for the goose… that said there will be no Free Market faeries coming to save the day nor will increasing global competition [race to the bottom] as emerging markets are fast becoming a dead end for capital seeking a quick profit.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. I would also reiterate the hand wringing over ratings agencies is like a child scared of the monster under the bed or closet after all the fraud and corruption they helped enable or were complicit in…. FFS its not like they are some supranational force that can weld unlimited power… the Chicago boys got away with weaponizing it for a time, but things are much different now. If their not careful they might become redundant, why pay attention to some mob that gets it so wrong all the time…. eh… who else pays for such crappy product…

      • The BIS and IMF are increasingly aware of the total failure of austerity

        Is this really true? If so, it would constitute a major step forward. It was my understanding that the BIS in particular supported a very conservative economic ideology.

      • The BIS is traditionally to the right, tho its board of governors does have a mixed bag on it like Carney, as such, the diehards can’t keep fighting a obvious losing battle out of ideological lines drawn in the sand… as everything falls apart – that does not mean it might not get messy.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. sad really… the whole thing is basically a repeat of the great depression where the elites try to save their own bacon first and then mull what to do about the rest…

      • Locus of ControlMEMBER

        Great summary and solution. Is it too late to nominate Gunna for PM?

      • “Is this really true? If so, it would constitute a major step forward.”

        My memory might be playing tricks on me, but I vaguely remember something about that. I think it was in relation to what was going on in Greece. Mostly i remember being stunned.

      • TailorTrashMEMBER

        And Domain will have a story on Monday on how the election result will be good for property …….

  67. Just heard a candidate in WA say he “was on the booths” all day with Helen yesterday.

  68. Best comment to describe the election so far: Turnbull like his rickety NBN could only make it to the node but not the house.

  69. Original John

    It is good to see that the national past time of over bidding for properties at auction was not interrupted by the national political circus. One has to stand in awe of the young family who bid $500K over the median price in Artarmon, confident in the knowledge that their location mere metres from the train station and well within the school catchment zone will ensure that the price can only go up.

    One also has to tip their hat to the bookies who had the Libs as an easy winner through yesterday. As it stands, this seems to be the result albeit in a manner in which said victors will not be able to achieve anything and we will need to redo this election farce again. And for those waiting for another new unelected PM to take centre stage, I would suggest that the clock is ticking for whoever assumes the mantle after the results are confirmed.

    As we glance around the political landscape globally, there is increasing evidence of dissatisfaction with the status quo. From Brexit to Trump/Sanders, to Le Pen, the Austrian elections, anti-EU sentiment in Italy, Germany, Poland and many others, to the turmoil in South America (Venezuela and Brazil) – the world’s elite will need to take action soon if they are to maintain control. How will they respond to the unwashed masses daring to challenge the rule of their betters? This whole mess has a feel of acceleration towards a climatic event. What that is, I have no clue, but I am sure Trump is involved somehow.

    Anyway, my head has cleared and the sun is shining brightly in the sky. Steering on the boat is out (damn hydraulic seal burst during the big storm) so I am stuck on shore. Think it is time to jump on a ferry and cruise the harbour for $2.50 until I get bored.

  70. Big shift away from the LNP/ALP…hardly news for anyone with their finger anywhere near the pulse of this Aussie electorate. What is a surprise to me is to see so many otherwise skilled individuals viewing this result through the polarized glass of 20th century political optics.
    The story goes something like this: The ALP has lost it’s mojo and wandered to far to the right making it indistinguishable from the LNP, so voters looking for real choice/ real change are voting Other! Clear implication being the ALP needs to reconnect it’s brain with it’s heart and soul.

    They could be right, I guess, but for me the explanation rings hollow. Difference is, I see a 21st century world that is far more diverse than the 19th century Capitalist/Marxist dialect struggle that gave birth to our current two party system, I see a world where confirmed Communists are wining the war of Productivity…wait wait wait, isn’t that the one area where Capitalism still delivers clear advantage….ah NO would appear to be the correct 2016 answer.

    So what does this mean? For me the implications are clear both parties have got it completely wrong, the modern struggle is not about Capital vs Labor, it’s a far more complex struggle where our over-populated world is banging up against solid intractable resource limits. These intractable limits herald a new world order where it’s clear to all that any advantage garnered by one group comes at a cost to another group…a truly global zero sum game has emerged.
    If we view Australian politics in these terms, it’s abundantly clear why both the LNP and ALP are simultaneously bleeding voters, it’s simple they’re both wrong, they’re both fighting yesterday’s war.

    • Agree about the bi polar aspect wrt humanities view of its self and is something discussed over at INET… creates more problems than it does offer solutions…

      Disheveled Marsupial…. yep it seems the antiquarian methodology can’t incorporate, biological, environmental, climatic, events into its methodology and as such cannot provided the frame work to by which to observe and then deduce a range of possibilities which might offer a palatable solution for everyone… so much energy spent and with expectations thingy…

    • A depressing but very realistic analysis of the state of play, especially when combined with Young OK’s Jared Diamond Collapse above.

    • Lighter Fluid

      Agree with all that you say, however I can’t help thinking that there’s a dialectic conflict of sorts playing out in the dynamics of resource scarcity and the hard physical limits to growth on the one hand, and the zero-marginal cost of the digital realm on the other. In the former, we end up with a zero-sums game, and in the latter, a trend towards winner-takes-all monopolies with advantages that erode faster and faster over time. In both cases, politically, the old-world working and middle classes of developed countries fail to see any gains and if anything fall backwards relative to both the elites of their countries and the working/middle classes of emerging countries.

  71. haroldusMEMBER

    hey malcolm!

    what’s asbestos j up to? are you keeping an eye on her?

    you homunculus.

    • Says the kid that likes to play with matches and now finds himself doused in metho….

      Disheveled Marsupial …. the Universe does have a pythonesque sense of humor….

  72. bolstroodMEMBER

    Barry Cassidy reckons it’s the first election for 2016.
    Oh, brother , what have we done?

    • haroldusMEMBER

      nonsense, I’ve never felt more alive.

      it’s either that or the ice.

      jokes: if you saw me you’d know i’m not a huge user of amphetamines!

    • “Barry Cassidy reckons it’s the first election for 2016.”

      lol, i loved the way he slipped that in there!!

    • It will take a month just to get the result. Parliament can’t sit until the Senate is finalised. So that puts us into August and there will have to be a sitting. The Governor General will have to decided who he thinks has a majority on the floor of the House. And if that fails, he will probably give the other side a chance to form a government and test it. So that will take a month or so. Then add a month for a campaign… So October. I would be surprised if a government couldn’t hold on for a few months, so I am guessing March next year.
      That would be a House only election too. It might be an idea to get a Double Dissolution trigger ready , re-re-write the rules for senate elections and do it all again.

  73. haroldusMEMBER

    hey sophie!

    didn’t offer enough for the hospital?

    back to the ASC, then?

    BTW there is talk of the Honourable Member for Indi being Speaker, so that’s a great honour for the electorate, eh.

  74. Andrew LeesMEMBER

    Sammy J was particularly wicked about the election campaign and Australian politics i general last night. More barbs per minute than a paddock full of farmers’ friends in autumn! Worth a look for some light relief from the current reality.

  75. Hot off the telle…. the AEC says it could take a – month – to finalize the results….

    Disheveled Marsupial…. someone better open the parliamentary pharmaceutical cabinet and call open bar on it… don’t think some of them could take all the anxiety for that long….

  76. People don’t like the Greens because they put the environment second to gay issues. In fact if gay individuals can’t trust the greens to put the environmental issues first, no-one else will either. People understand that the greens don’t care about environmental issues, the PROOF is in the all or nothing approach – take us the gay green party all or nuthin.

    Separate gay politics from environmental issues and then all Australians will have a united basis to work from. But NO the greens would rather slash and burn their natural environment as a sacrifice to what is really a gay political party manifesto with ‘save the cute puppies and trees’ as wrapping.

    If you don’t get this, nor care about what is the truth about why the greens perform so badly, then you will never understand why when the electorate sees green, they only see rainbow.

    Green or rainbow, you can’t communicate both. Today it is rainbow pretending to be green, and that is environmental failure. Hence the greens/rainbows are irrelevant to environmentalism.

    Can the greens politically separate from social issues for the sake of the environment? No, then it is rainbow NOT green.

    ‘But once gay rights have been established in equality we can focus then on the environment.’ as if the electorate will let you get away with that. The political gay voice won’t fall silent.

    • They are so much worse than what you’ve said.

      Greens have zero effective environment policy while they say nothing about Big Australia.

      Glad to see many people questioning these idiots.

      Best environmentally aware Australians can do is destroy the Greens, so another environment party can thrive.

    • drsmithyMEMBER

      The Greens haven’t been a single issue environmental party for the better part of twenty years.

      Somewhere between 60 and 70% of people support marriage equality.

      Only about 20% oppose it.

      Your premise that there’s some meaningfully large group of people that would vote Greens if only they didn’t support SSM is ridiculous.

      • Why do you even both smithy, even if Greens *cough* 10% of the vote *cough* were a single issue party the premise entertained in first line of that lengthy comment, was so stupid I stopped there.

        Call it gay, equality, whatever the you want marriage, no one cares any more! No one thinks it effects their straight marriage if gays do it. Gawd people it’s 2016 FFS we have bigger shit to deal with

      • mig…

        Its simple… contrary to naval gazing… one has to establish a base, sorta like Sanders and Corbyn are doing, that gives you bargain power at the big table. Without it all the sophistry in the Universe will change nothing.

        Disheveled Marsupial… how do you think MPS became so successful… they built out the institutional architecture to create a base….

      • “one has to establish a base, sorta like Sanders and Corbyn are doing, that gives you bargain power at the big table. ”


    • Disagree…

      That the Greens have a broad humanist rights approach to society and environmental issues is not exclusive of each other and unsupported by any studies. In fact contrary to that supposition is that humans living meaningful lives without unwarranted fears [basic needs met] enjoy more cohesive societies and don’t feel the need to over consume in self gratifying displays to offset anxiety.

      Lets not forget the supply side camp was in cahoots with Bernays [imbue objects with human traits] so they could – tell – people what they needed [desired] and not what they actually wanted. That said the world does not suffer from a scarcity issue as much as the distribution of basic goods and services, along with the dramas wrt bottlenecks set up to extract rents along the system architecture.

      Disheveled marsupial… the idea that if you go all Malthusian that all the problems go away is like pulling the doona over your head…

  77. St JacquesMEMBER

    footsore, my apologies for the unnecessary line. I couldn’t help myself; it’s what he represents to me.

    • Are you referring to the addition to the Hinch anecdote above?
      If so, I wasn’t bothered at all.
      Apparently it is a true story.
      Socializing with medical specialists means that you often hear stories about B-grade celebrities having hissy fits.

  78. They just don’t get it;

    “Australian federal election 2016: Malcolm Turnbull faces superannuation backlash as postmortem begins”

    Insiders are convinced the superannuation changes contributed to the loss of so many Coalition seats and the prospect of a hung parliament.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/australian-federal-election-2016-malcolm-turnbull-faces-superannuation-backlash-as-postmortem-begins-20160703-gpxbi3.html#ixzz4DKBxzF9E

    Here’s a red hot tip for ya, the reason for the voter backlash is because we think you suck and have rejected the conservitism you tried to force on Australians. So now we have to work out what the fuck we’re to do with this shit sandwich you’ve served up. Oh and thanks a lot for giving us Pauline Hanson. I really hope the Liberals implode and the Conservstive split and wither on the vine.

  79. Mining BoganMEMBER


    Here you go Mal, get this up ya.

    “Far-right One Nation leader Pauline Hanson is pushing for a royal commission into climate science and Islam and wants to abolish the Family Law Court, in an extreme policy agenda set to frustrate a future government trying to pass laws through the Senate.”


    This is going to be so much fun.

    • Government is yet to be formed and we’ve already breached the lows of the last term.
      This is going to become very chaotic.
      All Mr. Shorten has to do is hold on and he will end up as our PM.

    • I read that article.
      At the end of it my reactions were: oh dear and WTF? regarding wanting a Royal Commission into whether or not climate science has been corrupted and is Islam a religion or a political ideology?

      WRT replacing the Family Court with a family tribunal made up of ‘normal Australians’ that to my mind is a hilarious copy of a sharia court (something I freely admit I don’t really know much about so I may be exposing my sharia court composition ignorance here) but that is a beautiful Australian irony.

      And finally just the total combination of all the policies listed (we need our medical marijuana yeah…) left me thinking; bloody hell Australia is an amazing set of contradictions. Maybe moving back next to the arse end of the world will be more entertaining than I thought.

    • all we need now is for Pauline Hanson and Derryn Hnch to start dating and become the new power couple of australian politics.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        almost as awkward as imagining your parents creating you

        One of my “go to” mental images if I’m getting to the vinegar strokes too soon.

        Like thinking about Amanda Vanstone, or Alexander Downer.

        (sorry, it’s been a long weekend. goodnight work tomorrow)

    • Another sms from the failure posse… maybe we could do like all the mugs that payed them enough to rate their crap AAA and sail on into that good night….

      • Showerthought: HnH is an economic hipster: he talked about losing the AAA before it was cool…

      • My point is simple… repetitive failures in due diligence and fiduciary duty should not be confused with success and by that virtue meaningful gravitas in soverign affairs…

        Disheveled Marsupial…. one would think the must vaulted – market – could price that without an unreliable intermediary and a dubious past….

      • Well yes, post-GFC the ratings agencies are regarded with more scepticism than before, but a lot of people still put weight on their judgements and I’m sure it will be regarded as a big deal when we do lose the AAA, which will probably be soon.

      • David….

        I think those that muse Locke would reminded giving it away… and the consequences of it…

  80. Mining BoganMEMBER

    Spam? Spam!!!???

    Oh, there it is. Try again. Our finest journos.

    “Annabel Crabb, ABC: ‘The manoeuvre executed this morning by the PM combines a rich array of classically Turnbullian features. The element of surprise. The turning of tables. Fancy legal footwork…IN a crisp 15 minutes or so, Mr Turnbull seized the initiative by the scruff of the neck.’
    Michael Gordon, smh: ‘A stunning tactical coup’
    Laura Tingle, afr: ‘the most important message to take out of this: don’t presume Turnbull doesn’t have a plan..’
    Peter Hartcher, smh: ‘From hopeless ditherer to decisive leader in a moment, Turnbull has now staked his government on a challenge and put all the other political parties on the defensive. And while it’s high stakes, for Turnbull it’s actually low risk. Why?’
    Mark Kenny, smh: ‘the stunning tactical ambush not only upped the stakes, it caught the entire political establishment off guard.’”

    • One would think we were voting on brexit… oops… that HR management tactic seems to have gone horrible wrong…

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      And here’s the election day predictions of the Sky ‘experts’.

      [email protected] hosts #ausvotes seats predictions:
      @David_Speers LNP 80-84
      @Kieran_Gilbert LNP 85+
      @vanOnselenP LNP 83
      @KKeneally Hung Parl

      Go Kristina!

    • I never seem to learn anything of worth from Miss Crabb.
      If I took my car into her to be serviced I’d get a story about the designer, a tale about a friend who had a similar car, some pop psychology about the archetype driver for that model. I would learn nothing that tells me why it is broken, how to avoid the issue in the future, or even if the car was a good one to begin with.

  81. GunnamattaMEMBER

    The One Nation Housing Policy

    Should make those negotiations on the new Primary School house buyer visa an absolute hoot in the Senate


    One Nation proposes:

    That at the time of purchase and signing the contract, the sales agent (or if a private sale the solicitor handling the conveyancing) must sight documentation of the purchaser being an Australian citizen by way of Passport, birth certificate or permanent residency documentation, which would be noted and signed on an appropriate form by the licenced sales person.

    All purchases from foreign investment shall be recorded with the Immigration Department.

    If a temporary resident or foreign investor purchasing property, approval from the Foreign Investment Review Board must be attached to the contract.

    All new housing developments, regardless of the number of units, must have half of the stock sold to Australian citizens or permanent residents.

    Foreign investors who have bought property in Australia illegally, would face forfeiting their properties, and the real estate agents who sold them, heavily fined or loss of their licences.

    Foreign students who are found to have bought properties and not living in them while studying will forfeit the property.

    Foreign students who do not sell their properties within a year of leaving the country after finishing their studies will also forfeit the properties.

    • TailorTrashMEMBER

      Pauline may be stupid ……but if she can articulate some questions on this policy in the Senate then she will at least earn her parliamentary salary ……….because no one else is uttering a word ………..she might also want to ask Scomo how the ATO crackdown is going …..

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      People like to think of things as being black and white, or good and evil. when in fact there are always grey areas where evil is good and good is evil or neither apply. In Pauline’s case, she continues to dye her hair red!

    • I burst out laughing when I read that, thanks for the laugh. This is going to be an extremely interesting parliament.

      Wow, no wonder they polled so well with policies like that. I’m sure lots of people think that is good policy.

  82. Without further adieu…..

    UNCOUNTED: The True Story of the California Primary

    This documentary on the California primary is very disturbing. It has accounts from numerous poll workers of voters being told that the computer system showed specific voters as having requested to vote by mail, which meant they were supposedly mailed a ballot. Not only did many say they never got a ballot, many said they had never signed up to vote by mail. And this includes voters who said they had never heard of vote by mail.

    Those voters who showed up at the polls who were listed as “vote by mail” would only be given provisional ballot. On top of that, if they were registered “no party preference” they would have to ask specifically for a “crossover ballot” in order to vote. In fairness, I was told that many poll workers were more helpful, but this description from Greg Palast makes clear how the intent was to suppress their vote:

    This is from the official [California] Election Officer Training Manual page 49:

    “A No Party Preference voter will need to request a crossover ballot from the Roster Index Officer. (Do not offer them a crossover ballot if they do not ask).”

    They’re not kidding. Poll worker Jeff Lewis filed a description of the training in an official declaration to a federal court:

    Someone raised their hand and asked a follow-up question: ‘So, what if someone gets a nonpartisan ballot, notices it doesn’t have the presidential candidates on it, and asks you where they are?’ The answer poll workers are instructed to give: ‘Sorry, NPP ballots don’t have presidential candidates on them.’ That’s correct: even when people ask questions of that nature, obviously intending to vote with a party.

    Remember, “no party preference” voters were expected to skew heavily to Sanders. In addition, there are first person accounts of voters who were registered as Democrat listed at the polling station as “no party preference” or Republican, or similarly that their party preference had been switched when they got their mail-in ballot.

    Moreover, if someone filed a provisional ballot and there was a ballot mailed in for them, the vote by mail ballot takes precedence. Doesn’t this seem like a prescription for fraud?

    Please circulate this post (or the video) widely. And thank Catherine A for making sure I didn’t miss it.


    Disheveled Marsupial…. 2000 election on roids….

  83. QuentinMEMBER

    We now have two Australian Senators that went to jail!

    *Derryn Hinch enters senate*

    “Good evening, I’m Derryn Hinch. The following people are paedophiles.”

  84. Who the hell voted for this flog?

    “Marriage equality: Cory Bernardi says no need to hurry on plebiscite”

    Bernardi said a conservative revolution was required within the Liberal party to reset the broad policy direction “and if we don’t do that we’ve got a taste of the revolution waiting for us outside”.

    Correct Bernardi; conservatives are revolting. Do us all a favor and form your own party.


  85. bobalotMEMBER

    If Labor are smart, the first thing they should do in the new parliament is to introduce a bill to legalise gay marriage and watch the Coalition dissolve into internal chaos.

    • Mr. Shorten doesn’t have to do anything.
      He just needs to sit back, drop a good policy idea every now and then and let the Liberal Party implode all by itself.
      To do anything to hasten it would be like an amputation that could save the victim.
      You want their true incompetence to be seared onto the minds of all for generations to come.
      Plus, he needs to keep building up the narrative of change so that he can actually attempt reform.
      Set the scene and let people know why the Howard world that never really was must be let go of.
      All of the above is assuming that Labor doesn’t also tear itself apart somehow.

    • ‘The app is basic to look at but boasts a suite of features akin to Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Instagram, Tinder and Chatroulette rolled into one.’

      Well with a sentence like that its not exactly going to increase the author’s credibility, especially after I read an article from a foreign tech joint that monitors wechat’s development today saying how FB continues to copy wechat. I’ll forward it to you, on wechat of course!

      Had an interesting conversation with some structural/maintenance engineers at Airbus yesterday. One student’s cousin has migrated to Australia (after studying there I think). He’s 27. His wife sells Aussie products on wechat. We got into the tax implications of all the Chinese in Australia selling stuff on wechat back to China and who actually benefits from this massive trade (not the Chinese customer in my book, they’re being ripped off to an insane degree, AUD40-50 for a 1kg pack of weetbix???). I reckon the reason the Chinese government has introduced all those changes to customs law recently is that they are aware of how much gets imported into China from Oz/NZ, they want some of the pie and a bit more control of the situation. The ATO must be missing out on massive amounts of taxable income from all those unregistered businesses (basically if I have a student who tells me they know a recent migrant to Australia they all tell me they sell Aussie products on wechat, is it that common???). I’d love to know how much of that money stays in China and how much comes back to Australia, given that payment can be made inside wechat.

  86. GunnamattaMEMBER

    MacroBusiness commentariat post 511 on weekend links

    In one of the all-time great innings the Macrobusiness weekend links commentariat has smashed the Macrobusiness weekend links comment record in compiling a massive 500+ comments on election weekend, setting a record 2 day total which is expected to stand for years to come.

    Winning the toss on a pitch which he thought ‘destined to provide a big score’ Gunnamatta loaded a 200+ linkfest circa 23.20 on the Friday eve and set the ball in motion, and right from the get-go was expecting a robust performance.

    ‘Oh, there was no doubt it was going to be an absolute belter of a pitch. Election day was always likely to provide a lot of comment and a big links performance is a good which to get some commenting happening. I always thought we’d do OK, but in the end I suppose I was a bit surprised. That Saturday morning performance [100 at 1200 on Saturday] certainly set us up for a big score, but what happened afterwards was pretty exciting to be part of.’

    No sooner had he posted that haroldus opened up with a blinding piece of poetry which continued to generate comments though the night and into the following morning, with support from Popcod, Gavin and Footsore, with Janet chiming in for a useful thought provoking comment, China-Bob and Young OK hitting through the line of the delivery, Skippy chipping in from off the planet and some Chris Becker gifs adding to the Bien-etre. Also overnight a cameo rant from Gunnamatta helped to build the comment base with Original John, RobW, flawse, counterfiat and Wiley Wolf easily working the slow to medium paced pitch to advantage.

    Powermonger, toobig2fail, Mining Bogan, Larry, Innocent bystander and Hugh Pavletich combined through the morning session on Saturday to keep the scoreboard ticking over. There had been thought that at 100 at 1200 Saturday the comment rate would slow down in the afternoon session but admirable work from Jacob, PaulF, The Travelling Wilbur, Ronin 8317, 8mill and David continued to cause trouble for the opposition as haroldus, after his initial flurry, took numerous short sharp singles to push the comment rate higher, when everyone was thinking the slowdown would take hold.

    As the afternoon wore on Richard (who drew the only Spambot card) and Pfh007 kept the comments coming with kliff_Fiscal and drsmithy, while a run a ball rate was kept up by haroldus, Skippy, billygoat and Miguel, with footsore playing shots off an increasingly easy to score from backdrop as the Torynuff government went down the shitter. The closing of the polls and the opening of the evening commentariat saw UteMan and Jake Gittes, with the unstinting haroldus being joined by notsofast, St Jacques, Escobar and a reinvigorated Mining Bogan to have statisticians reaching for the record books as the total easily passed 200 late on Saturday eve.

    Some fine strokeplay by China-Bob was followed by a reprise of Gunnamatta, and good strike rotation by Richard, TailorTrash, bolstrood, Escobar and Miguel, in quick succession pushed the late Saturday eve score beyond 250 as the rest of the nation wondered where the Prime Minister was after the election result, with Mav, Peter, JohnR and Malcolm combining to reinvigorate the scoring rate and put a record score well in play.

    The Sunday morning run rate was pushed into hyper drive by js and the return of the Travelling Wilbur , and a cameo from Donna, with Antony and FiftiesFibroShack underlining that a truly epic score was within reach. Catherine, Powermonger and some lusty hitting from Gunnamatta created havoc for those looking for a slowdown on the Sunday morning. Also returning with some big hitting was Original John, joined by some fine running between wickets by Ermington Plumbing, Skippy and a nugget from Stephen Morris, with the attack subsequently plundered by Jason, adelaide_economist, some big hitting by Leighton, and the return of Popcod, footsore and drsmithy, with capable support from UteMan and nyleta, as Miguel returned in poetic guise, haroldus on a second wind struck out and a one liner from Researchtime all combined to progress the score well into the 300s. footsore and haroldus, with support from Mining Bogan, RobW, Innocent bystander and FiftiesFibroShack, joined by the fresh desmodromic, Wing Nut, and cameos from Rage and Econo-fart.

    Quentin and Antony reopened their accounts to push the score beyond 400, with Nikola, yeborsky a reinvigorated Donna and a still going haroldus, coupled with the arrival of the hitherto unseen dumpling as Skippy continued to look for the gaps, Ermington Plumbing came back with authority and Ino made his first appearance.

    By late Sunday afternoon the drive was on with respected commentators wondering what could hold them back. The mood went from robust to positively glowing with the arrival at the crease of Djenka and reusachtige (who is a winner and wants everyone to join him as a winner by buying real estate) as well as some music from Econo-fart, and zentao appearing 1 length further back. The epic innings of haroldus was ably supported by UteMan and the arrival of wycx and Cornflakes some secondary picturework by Gunnamatta being followed up by Bedugl, bzunica, Freddy and a late arriving Lord Dudley. In the same vein a worthy contribution by RobW was capitalised upon by Andy! and a fresh Locus of Control, as counterfiat, dumpling and Original John returned to keep the pressure on.

    With the score within reach of 500 Spleenblatt came down to lend a hand as Mining Bogan, RobW and Nikola scored freely and an epic innings by footsore moved into hyperdrive, and csfn arrived to torment the scorers. Skippy and Miguel continued their tick-tac with further work by UteMan TailorTrash and the fresh fingers of ITag. Mav and Richard joined forces to push things along in the closing overs with some musical references from footsore and Gunnamatta being followed by some Hill Billy 55, some more Richard and zentao and greedypuppy. A final serve of Gunnamatta pictures saw the indefatigable Richard, Mav, Miguel and Skippy continue their sterling work, with Switters materialising out of nowhere for his first comment, joined by Hixtar, and Original John and China-Bob playing big shots into the stands to the delight of the crowd, and cameos from Lighter Fluid and Andrew Lees.

    With 500 well within easy sight Counterfiat wound back the clock to post a big hit which got more burley in the water for Skippy, Miguel, Richard drsmithy. Stomper and bobalot (in their first appearances for the weekend) Mining Bogan, Wing Nut, footsore and Young OK, with the arrival of David piled pressure on the scoreboard and to have the score heading towards the close at 510 at 2120 on the Sunday eve, in one of the all-time great commenting performances.

    • haroldusMEMBER

      Gold. Everyone’s comments made this a gripping election. You are a very clever bunch of people, you know that.

    • And with that a new week awaits. May your markets be volatile and future unknown.
      There has never been a more exciting time to be an Australian.

      I am off to bed.

    • Richie: “A marvaloush effort that, absholoutely marvalosh”
      Bill: “Got him yes, piss off you’re out. There he is ladies and gentlemen, Gunna, what a performance, and he’s a Victorian, get him up here I wanna boof him, yes”
      Tony: “Steady on Bull, you stewpid baaarstard”

      “We work as a team and we do it my way”

      As for the election outcome and whiney politicians in general, an angry Richie B sums it up (with subtitles):

      • I mean, they may be mostly asinine, irrelevant, self-indulgent comments, but if it’s quantity we’re after, then by God, I’ll get us there.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        asinine, irrelevant, self-indulgent comments

        Sooooo, anyone particular in mind when you made that statement? Just asking.

    • The commentariat that is MB certainly is lifting its game.

      500+ comments
      5 limericks
      13 correct predictions
      22 virtual bar fights
      745 double entendres
      1645 sentences that tipped the rantometer to red
      and 0 LTIs

      Great stuff Gunnamatta, as mentioned, we may all have to copy and paste to come back and do this in the not too distant.

      Predictions for the next while:

      Bedlam and a constipation of crossbenchers.

      Anyone know of any popcorn manufacturers that are on the up? Might be a nice negative beta fit with your gold stocks.

  87. Guardian reporting that both Turnbull and Shorten are courting the independents. So Shorten really wants to form government? If I was him I would seat and enjoy being opposition. Make the Libs work with Pauline and Nick. Andrew already said he will only act as independent and will not be a part of any government.
    Is it really both major parties can’t see what’s coming?

    • No, he wants Turnbull to have to do a crappy deal with them. He is dummy bidding.

      • Hope you are right. Or they just do it for the pay packet. Pays lot more to be a PM than a PM wanabe.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        “He is dummy bidding.” That is an evocative statement. It’s what I think I’d do too to dump the whole steaming mess in Malcolm’s lap.

        You don’t get to be head of the Labor party without being a bit smart, so maybe you’re right.

        Ironic considering all the suggestions that Malcolm was trying to throw the election!

      • “Pays lot more to be a PM than a PM wanabe.”

        Sure does! I hear Tones is on track to pay off his mortgage by 2032 (he took out a $710,000 mortgage in 2008, even though he bought his house in 1994 for $351,000). A government of the indebted, by the indebted, for the indebted… that’s Australia! Ha ha!

  88. To finish the event as you move towards the exists….

    Half Moon Run – Full Circle

    Cap off kneelin’ at the back of the church
    Feelin’ water on your brow
    With its heal and it hurts
    At first a sharpish pain that returns as a thought
    That the needle in your skin won’t bring you closer to God

    And I watch
    As your head
    Turns full circle

    All hopeless with old coffee and a medical text
    It’s too easy knowin’ nothin’ blowin’ off the rest
    And the riddles in the pages leavin’ too much to guess
    And the worry cracks a fracture from your hip to your chest

    As I watch
    As your head
    Turns full circle

    You got lost in your travels and a spiritual book
    Mistook beaches for nirvana in the way that they look
    And the crooks that run the island are killing to keep earning
    They’re burning seven tons of plastic and it seems to be working

    Is that the best
    That I
    Can do?

    As I watch
    As your head
    Turns full circle

    You appear even-tempered though your looks will deceive
    And the sparks are always flying ’cause you drink for relief
    With the heart of a child and the wit of a fool
    It’s a wonder why I don’t try to build a wall around you

    And I watch
    As your head
    Turns full circle


    For the ride home….

    Episode 1: Yeah Nah Yeah

    Three writers on the hunt to interview and film a local hero finally get in contact with him and agree to meet at a local RSL. This is what was captured…


    To keep you up at night….


    Disheveled Marsupial ….. Dismissed …..

  89. It may actually be a good time to privatise the ABC or at least spin off their Parliament TV feed – could be some nice entertainment value in owning the rights to hansard recordings this semester.

  90. haroldusMEMBER

    In conclusion, this is our best outcome, right? Malcolm will own it with a feral senate and clownshoes licking his saurian lips while eyeing Mal’s fluttering jugular and achilles tendons.

    Spoke to a mate today who said he doesn’t give a fuck who wins as long as they don’t have control of the senate. Have to say I agree.

  91. The Truth about Banks IMF. Phil U: “The IMF is becoming post-Keynesian?”

    Practical implication

    Unprepared for the Great Recession

    This helps explain why, when faced with the Great Recession in 2008, macroeconomics was initially unprepared to contribute much to the analysis of the interaction of banks with the macro economy. Today there is a sizable body of research on this topic, but the literature still has many difficulties.­

    We find that many of these difficulties reflect the failure to remember the lessons of the 1930s (Jakab and Kumhof, 2015). Specifically, virtually all recent mainstream neoclassical economic research is based on the highly misleading “intermediation of loanable funds” description of banking, which dates to the 1950s and 1960s and back to the 19th century. We argue instead for the “financing through money creation” description, which is consistent with the 1930s view of economists associated with the Chicago School. These two views have radically different implications for a country’s macroeconomic response to financial and other shocks. This in turn has obvious relevance for key policy choices today.­

    In modern neoclassical intermediation of loanable funds theories, banks are seen as intermediating real savings. Lending, in this narrative, starts with banks collecting deposits of previously saved real resources (perishable consumer goods, consumer durables, machines and equipment, etc.) from savers and ends with the lending of those same real resources to borrowers. But such institutions simply do not exist in the real world. There are no loanable funds of real resources that bankers can collect and then lend out. Banks do of course collect checks or similar financial instruments, but because such instruments—to have any value—must be drawn on funds from elsewhere in the financial system, they cannot be deposits of new funds from outside the financial system. New funds are produced only with new bank loans (or when banks purchase additional financial or real assets), through book entries made by keystrokes on the banker’s keyboard at the time of disbursement. This means that the funds do not exist before the loan and that they are in the form of electronic entries—or, historically, paper ledger entries—rather than real resources.­ – snip

    Many policy prescriptions aim to encourage physical investment by promoting saving, which is believed to finance investment. The problem with this idea is that saving does not finance investment, financing and money creation do. Bank financing of investment projects does not require prior saving, but the creation of new purchasing power so that investors can buy new plants and equipment. Once purchases have been made and sellers (or those farther down the chain of transactions) deposit the money, they become savers in the national accounts statistics, but this saving is an accounting consequence—not an economic cause—of lending and investment. To argue otherwise is to confuse the respective macroeconomic roles of real resources (saving) and debt-based money (financing). Again, this point is not new; it goes back at least to Keynes (Keynes, 2012). But it seems to have been forgotten by many economists, and as a result is overlooked in many policy debates.­

    The implication of these insights is that policy should place priority on an efficient financial system that identifies and finances worthwhile projects, rather than on measures that attempt to encourage saving, in the hope that it will finance desired investment. The “financing through money creation” approach makes it very clear that with financing of physical investment projects, saving will be the natural result.­ – en fin


    Changes – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3vxEudif8

    Disheveled Marsupial…. knock yourself out 007… and good night…

  92. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    Im wondering if Pauline Hanson and Jacqui Lambie are gona become Gal Pals or bitter rivals.
    Maybe Jacquie can get Pauline to pull her head in a bit and not make such a fool of herself this time around.

    Ms Lambie went from embarrassment to one of the finest representatives of their constituencies ,..so maybe them becoming mates could be a,…good thing?

    Hinch and Pauline is going to be entertaining


    Time to renew my MB subscription the next few years is going to be a blast.
    Over 550 posts!,….should be able to get a thread over a thousand soon.
    Good work brothers and sisters!