Sunday Supplement: 4 October 2020

‘Gift Bearers’ 1955, Albert Tucker, Art Gallery of NSW


Macro & Markets








Terra Specufestorus


…and furthermore…


Trump & COVID


Ritualised Forms
Latest posts by Ritualised Forms (see all)


  1. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER


    Float like a butterfly
    Sting like a bee
    I am the Greatest
    Because I am Me!

  2. Genesis 6-4 “when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them”

    Jesus wasn’t an only child?

    • migtronixMEMBER

      Pffffft being a son of god isn’t special, being one born without sin that’s trick.

      You’re not catholic are you?

    • I think that section describes the offspring as nephilim- they were godlike creatures( bit like the Greek offspring of gods and mortals).
      I once read a truly dreadful novel based on that idea.

      • Well you are touching on a dilemma for much of modern society.

        The Bible is, in fact profoundly sexist from the first page to the last. Never more so than when looked at from the point of view of looking for ‘equality’ for Men and Women. Right from Eve, through to the Holy Mother (setting about as unrealistic a model of desexualised feminine typecasting as ever presented anywhere) and against a backdrop of the Bible rattling off about 2000 male names and maybe circa 200 female names, my personal view (as someone who has read the damned thing) is that it was never intended in any way for women, to be about women, or to present a ‘female’ point of view about anything. I think it is all about presenting – for the benefit of those males who are into the Bible’s brand of religion – what role women can play, for a very small section of the male community, which happens to have pronounced monotheist views and a somewhat dimmed comprehension of the lives of the females (to the extent that there are any) in their lives.

        If it is any consolation for those adherents, there is ample case to make that potentially Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Shintosim, and a vast array of smaller religions and belief systems in both the monotheist and pantheist frameworks, exhibit similar observable traits vis the depiction of sexual relations. I am often of the thought – though I would deny this in public on a stack of bibles – to suggest that religion per se is sexist.

        Of course I can understand why women – in particular – generally avoid going down that path. Because at that point they would have the nuttier elements of the – mainly Christian in Australia – religious scene starting to accuse them of bigotry and intolerance and showing a profound disrespect for their beliefs..

        And before long we are back with a completely unwinnable argument about whether life and the things in it is about belief or rationale, logic, data, narrative – which I tend to agree with the late Australian poet, Peter Porter, can be encapsulated nicely by the concept of unbelief .

        As Porter rightly observes there is a certain point where religion becomes ‘management’ and it can be difficult to recognise if any given individual or act (let alone requests to ‘suck on this’ from those wearing Archbishopric robes) is more truly and utterly discredited from either the religious or the managerial perspective…….

        A short ballad of unbelief – Peter Porter, 1995

        It’s not a good time for risk-taking
        The baleful brain says to itself.
        You’re not well, you ought to propitiate
        The God who ordains failing health.

        Though he might respect defiance,
        No whimpering crossing the bar,
        The Atheists Comedy playing,
        The invite marked ‘come as you are’,

        Have they found what they looked for, these faces
        Whose names are now washed off their stones?
        Do their mounds keep them warm out of Domesday,
        A permanent summer of bones?

        You might toil up precipitous stairways
        To visit high altars and tombs
        Find Maria d’Aracoeli is worth it,
        Love shrunk to a handful of rooms,

        But nothing can prove your existence
        Will keep you going after you’re dead
        You may think that it’s owed you – for instance
        That Paradise looms in your head.

        And millions are born to ensure that
        Creation should lead on to you
        With all the juridical gestures
        Which set the elect as the few

        But can Art and Aesthetics survive when
        The body is held at discount
        By old age, and hope of survival
        Is more of a cringe than a flount?

        Will you ever convince your intelligence
        To rely on the intentional breath
        Of frescoes and candles and statues,
        The paraphernalia of death?

        Unbelief has just enough cunning
        To be grateful when nailing the lie
        Of transcendence that still every steeple
        Points nowhere but into the sky.

        • Our great grandparents had a word for women who practiced their own religion : witches.
          They burned these women at the stake, while not completing eliminating the practice it did somewhat reduce its popularity.

        • migtronixMEMBER

          What young girl doesn’t want to be a Sara? Or a Jezzabel? There’s always Esther, she’s virtually worshiped like a god at purim…

          Now the new testament? Whores get a nod and that’s about it.

        • Gunna, The Bullsh!t Party name needs to change to appeal to the masses, and reflect the direction the party is going.
          I reccomend the name be “The Spartacus Party,” the slaves revolution.

          • boomengineeringMEMBER

            My mum was going to name me Spartacus but the old man was O/S ( where I was conceived) at the time of birth so she just gave me his name instead.

        • Right from Eve, through to the Holy Mother (setting about as unrealistic a model of desexualised feminine typecasting as ever presented anywhere) and against a backdrop of the Bible rattling off about 2000 male names and maybe circa 200 female names, my personal view (as someone who has read the damned thing) is that it was never intended in any way for women, to be about women, or to present a ‘female’ point of view about anything. I think it is all about presenting – for the benefit of those males who are into the Bible’s brand of religion – what role women can play, for a very small section of the male community, which happens to have pronounced monotheist views and a somewhat dimmed comprehension of the lives of the females (to the extent that there are any) in their lives.

          There are many attempts to comprehend and explain the Bible, some better some worse.
          One thing shared across all poor and shallow attempts is attempt to comprehend it – asynchronous to times of the origin of books, as well as to ascribe the same significance to Old and New Testament.
          The times when both books were conceived (over 3300 years for Old Testament) were harsh and by no means just. Any book inclusive of contemporary books describing those times from a perspective of a just society would simply be wrong. This goes similar to wicked woke critic of “gone with the wind” for describing blacks as slaves and lesser humans – as counter factual to standards of the era and society of the storyline.
          The Bible is not written for women, I agree, it is not written for men either. This is if we assume that ‘men’ means non-menstruating persons. If we take that ‘men’ is abbreviation for ‘humans’ then yes, the Bible is the book for men. Hence apparent equal acceptance of the Book by both sexes and all races in spite the plethora of ‘-isms’ as profoundly recognised again and again by those that base their religion on denial of someone else’s religion.

          • The Bible is simply an instruction manual on how to build a society, when it takes coordinated community and societal effort to survive back when survival to adulthood was a much more knife edged proposition.

            The old Testament is an instruction manual on what is required in order to build a functional society built around common values.

            The New Testament asks the question of what sort of society you want to live in once the hardwork of building it is done – typified by Jesus’s sermon on the mount.

            Note the order in which they appear in the bible.

            Women have never figured significantly because in general women aren’t built physiologically to build large complex networks – they are good at organising family units and their sense of fairness is important to that groups function, but in general intra-sexual competition means their networks are unstable. Men build much more significant and stable social networks, with much more stable hierarchies usually built around the sort of competencies that the society requires.

            Men and women are different, that is how the differences play out. Men’s strengths are around strong, stable networks and hierarchies enabling massive levels of collaboration to be undertaken, from hunting to terraforming, women make the family unit a much more nurturing place.

            These are generalities, but they are true because if it were different then all the successful societies of today would be significantly different.

          • Stewie, I’m not religious but I understand it’s critical importance.

            Your comments continue to be about the best I’ve seen anywhere.

            You are a very wise, smart man.

          • The Abrahamic religions excluded the female ,
            Jehovah is one of the few uncoupled Gods.
            His Female other, Ashrael was banished from the Temple very early in the piece
            Christianity all but expunged the female from any mention.
            Father Son and Holy Ghost
            instead of
            Father ,Mother, Child
            The Church has assumed the female role
            Referred to as Mother Church, Bride of Christ.
            The dress code for the Christian Priesthood adopted the female dress code.
            All this may help to explain the sexual purversions of the Christian Clergy.

          • Thanks TBW, although I am sure there will be many who disagree 😁. Believe it or not I’m not particularly religious either, other than recognising the fact that religion generally imbunes a society with their general base level foundational values, from which most higher order decisions are made. To paraphrase Richard Dawkins, I may be an atheist but I am still a Christian.

            To me “God” is truly a social construct, and the type of “God” you end up living under depends on the base level values that a particular religion promotes or prioritises.

            Culture Matters – it is everything.

        • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

          I think Religion just reflects the sexist nature of A humanoid culture that goes back probably hundreds of thousands of years.
          Look at our evolutionary cousins chimpanzees and bonobos. Morphologically very similar but with the bonobos being much smaller in size and weight. Their other major difference comes from their mating culture.
          Chimpanzees clearly have a patriarchy were violent aggressive males are the only ones who get to pass on their seed with “weaklings“ rarely getting a chance to reproduce.
          Bonobos on the other hand have a mating culture Where matriarchs of the troop controls who gets to root who, violent disruptive males miss out but as long as Young males behave themselves and submit to said matriarchy everyone gets their fair share.
          It is likely that early Homo sapiens were more like Chimpanzees.
          Moving on to the big bang of the human mind which enabling us to outcompete with all other advanced homicide species Simple language it is believed gave us major competitive advantages, along with fire and the ability to cooperate in larger groups than other hominids.
          Neanderthals had a larger cranial capacity in Homo sapiens and were probably stronger as well. Like early humans they had the capacity to produce advanced Stone Age tools but the resources used to manufacture these tools were always sourced from a narrow geographical range.
          Early Humans on the other hand created tools and artefacts from a much broader geographical range spending hundreds even thousands of kilometres over 50,000 years ago.
          Depressingly this suggests that consumerism was a source of great evolutionary advantage And along with art and music a great driver of our cognitive and Cultural advancement as a species.

          But the Codified religions you mention above gonna

          The Codified religions you mention above Gunna come much later in our cultural evolutionary story.
          The written “Word” and “literacy” are a very recent development in our species.
          It is my view that the “sexism” you refer to, even though codified by said religions pre date them by possibly millions of years!

          • I tend to the view you are quite right there old coq, and to the general idea that what we currently see as sexism is part and parcel of what we may also see as the ‘human condition’. That said, quite a lot of what we currently see as sexism is quite sexist when looked at, and I would toss religions in when it comes to making a list of those things we could review as potentially sexist. I have run the line ‘what you see as sexism may just be the way humans are largely wired to behave’ past women who would identify as feminist, and generally found some acceptance of that idea, but generally too the idea that ‘that is not necessarily a reason not to change’.

            Although in no way considering myself to have any expertise on feminism I have on occasion posited that such change would need to be ‘salable’ to the broader community. I have also noted that from my experience (which involved taking men out of organisational managements in order to make said managements more representative of the broader community a generation ago – and since observing the resulting behaviours, attitudes and priorities of the new management structures) women in positions of power in the managements of large organisations behave almost indistinguishably from men – with the same entitlement, focus on them as individuals, speciousness and glibness, priority on embedding themselves and those exhorting the behaviours they deem appropriate, their own personal remunerations etc (cf the Australian Public Service, almost all State public services, almost all large employing organisations, private or public, profit driven or community driven etc) – which can lead to the suspicion that such individuals tend to be a type of human being which is not solely or even largely reflective of differences between sexes.

            But for sure the Bible (if we countenance the possibility it was written by a collection of nutters arguing with one another in caves in the valleys near the River Jordan – rather than handed down from on high by a deity – and refined by an editorial process determined by similar nutters who were persecuted for their nuttiness by the [inter alia] ancient Romans and and a range of other local ruling authorities and ‘elites’ before being brought together at the Council of Nicea to agree on a definitive version which served the purpose of Emperor Hadrian and the later Romans, before becoming the ‘word’ of a new ‘elite’ in the form of the Vatican – almost all of which and whom were solely male – I think we can be sure that it was written by males, describing the ‘one true path’ as males determined these things and reflecting (for the most part) male priorities.

            None of that is to say it is wrong, just to suggest that females (were they ever to do such things of their own volition) may have done things differently.

          • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

            My point above was not a defence of “Patriarchy“ or religion.
            It is my view that both concepts are given way too much attention.
            The tool of Written language has got us all Obsessing On abstract ideas and their relevance to our own personal evolutionary advantages.

          • The Traveling Wilbur

            Dangnabit EP. Now you’ve instilled in me a burning desire to go to Walmart and buy a flint and a stone.

          • Good post Ermo – the others similarity with Chimps is that the males form stable competency based hierarchies, where it is not the most violent or brutal that succeeds and becomes the alpha, but the one that is most successful at building a strong network and stable allies. The most successful plus his allies with which he shares get all the females…. some societies and cultures also use similar strategies and they often reflect a similar collectively brutal outcome.

          • Gunna – on the question of sexism and sexist behaviour, I would certainly agree that there is no reason not to try and change. But on the question of the functional composition of society and the way it makes decisions I can see reasons for caution, yes a sexist view, but only on the basis of how increasing the level of certain big five OCEAN personality traits impacts society – you aren’t just increasing the voter base, but also substantially increasing the voter base that is higher in ‘Agreeableness’, ‘Openness’ and ‘Neuroticism’.

            The result being that you also substantially shift societies median decision making process in terms of how those traits influence a functioning society… this is not necessarily a good thing. Our societies and civilisation was built and succeeded on the basis of a basically ‘patriarchal’ society and imho the verdict on the question of radically changing the way we make decisions by increasing those traits… I would contend that many elements of the culture war, such as being open to and agreeing with radical social policy changes like being open to and accepting the need for MultiCult would be related. Also the neurotic frenzies of ‘white privilege’ and anti fascist hysterical screeching would be a lot less if neurotic empathetic women had less voice, which in turn would discourage beta males from allying themselves with them in order to peacock and compete for such women.

            Incredibly sexist I know, but then not giving a fig about such things in order to truly understand ‘Why’ something is the way it is, has never bothered me. Interestingly, from a male sexual competition strategy, being disagreeable is also a valid strategy give the possibility for outsized returns in going against consensus (also outsized losses).

    • Sounds like, if you’re thinking about having children with my daughter, you bl00dy better be from god sonny!.

      Every father wants the best for his little princess.

    • Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.

  3. ‘Migration will come back’: Budget to reveal first negative migration since 1946

    Having had an unfortunate accident with a beer bottle and severing a tendon in my foot (toe actually) I have spent an uncharacteristic day lying in bed watching the TV – the one thing I have noticed is the near universal synchronisation of Immigration news articles on hospital TV trying to ram home the supposed critical importance of immigration to Australia, across every channel.

    Obviously the ABC and SBS have been leading the charge, but the commercial stations are fully in on it too… honestly it has been virtually non-stop the entire day.

    MB might be confident that immigration will be curtailed for years, but I’m not so sure. The population ponzi propaganda is being turned to the max, and sold as the solution for pulling us out of the COVID crunch. IMHO it will be turned back on faster then anyone expects and at higher rates then ever simply to ‘catch up’ with immigration that we missed out on in 2020.

    • I think that this is the overt ScoMo Frydenburg plan…..

      Obviously they are holding the offshore Australians to ransom to enable that turbocharged immigration plan. I cant see Immigration coming back for at least 6 months and possibly as long as a year, but I have no doubt that population ponzi is the plan. I reckon there are two outriders. The first is that there is a major surge in protesting in Hong Kong which leads to a serious crackdown. That could potentially have a very large number of refugees flood the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The second however is domestic. As Leith has pointed out a larger and increasing number of Australians have come to understand that we are running a population ponzi. 6 months to a year leaves us within a year of the next Federal Election. I think scope to turn the population ponzi back on – overtly – would potentially be electorally dangerous for both government and ALP, and may easily generate its own non mainstream political impulse. So it wouldnt surprise me one iota to see the population ponzi held in abeyance until after the next election (presumably with immigration being given almost no airing in the election campaign or the policy platforms of the mainstream parties). But at that point one assumes it will be all taps on (or the ponzi will be tried). I also think the point about even immigrants will want to have jobs is quite valid, and unless the ScoMo Frydenburg budget generates real turnaround those jobs are highly unlikely to exist – and without the jobs ponzi becomes far less politically tenable. The other factor is also that foreign students as the role model for our tertiary education sector is going to continue having its head held under the water by the virus, and there is no guaranteeing it will come back in quite the same way.

      • There’s still something like 1m nonresidents in Aust – I suspect the backdoor immigration will be to speed up their pathway to PR or citizenship, then there’ll be given access to first home owner grants, in order to start feeding relatively cleanskin credit consumption units into the housing market. Meanwhile immigration will be cranked back up to at least the long term average over the next 12 mths. I doubt ScoMo will go a full term and instead call an early election to capitalise on the invisible albatross and COVID emergency funding… I give the immigration lull 18mths max, election, then it brought back at a faster rate then ever.

        Although more people have cottoned onto the scam that mass migration is, judging by the intense coordinated propaganda I witnessed on the telly a lot of those converts will be persuaded that rebooting the ponzi will be a necessary evil to overcome the COVID crunch. When no alternative narratives are provided to the deluge that is coming it will make MB’s voice all the more important and those working against it all the more determined… fewer radio interviews for Leith is my fear.

        • macaroni jeweler

          There is no point having the current shades of grey immigration policy, it needs to be clearly defined.
          I suggest anyone who can support themselves and is prepared to contribute to Australia is a welcome migrant; but citizenship you are born into.
          Multiculturalism is an enforced paradox.
          Cultures evolved over time due to the process of discrimination and segregation.

          • Agreed – I think the pursuit of MulitCult is societal cancer from a functional, cohesive society perspective. If immigrantion itself were run at more sustainable rates under a policy of intergration and assimilation I would have far fewer concerns over other aspects of immigration such as composition of where they are sourced.

    • Yep, just saw it on four come n are tonight.

      Hope your tendon recovers well and fast. 🙂

    • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

      Yep sickest dumbest stupidest most moronic country on the planet ….. easily. We’re all fcked, completely and utterly fcked

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        Yep as per my post yesterday.
        The PNG crew member got me to drive an open top 4×4 through some remote villages and was told to speed through as they had never seen a white man before thereby inviting curiosity of his taste. No matter if one was run over and killed as that was of no consequence to them but under no circumstance run over a pig as they tasted better, so worth three humans. Killing a pig would warrant hunting you down to exact revenge. Christianity puts far too much value on human life looking from their aspect. They were cruel to animals as well skinning or defeathering whist still alive.
        With all their differences their concept of debt remains consistent with the world history. It is us that have gone off the rails.

    • I don’t have a problem with mass immigration.
      What I DO have a problem with is endless culturally incompatible male immigration.

      Set a quota of no more than 10% of migrants from any one country, max 49% male from any one country, $100,000 income tax paid per person to qualify for citizenship ($200,000 for a couple) and open the gates.

      • Bloke!!

        I know right!

        If it was endless hot Slovenians like LAs eyebrow raising girl in the bed Nusha it would be no issue!!

      • If given the metaphoric choice of having a stick shoved into my left eye or right eye, I’d prefer 100% male. They don’t have babies.

      • With criteria like that you’re definitely not into mass migration – you’d be lucky to get a few thousand in the door every year.

    • From where? China don’t want to or are not allowed to come here in the same numbers. India is fully gone with this virus, no immigrants from there for years. There goes our biggest two sources of immigration. If you think we will be filling hotel rooms with Indians quarantining just so they can come here and drive ubers its not happening. It’s over. Thank you Covid silver lining.
      Edit: hope you recover soon!

      • Agree. And with the Tsunami of job losses, rent and mortgage defaults coming in the next 18 months, it’ll be political suicide to try.

        Covid – best thing ever happened to Straya.

        • That’s what I thought – two weeks in a moon boot, but alas my physio said it will be closer to 8 before I can get back into playing the sort of high intensity sports I like playing 😕. I should be able to be back on the ergo meter in two weeks though, which should be helpful in terms of scratching that itch.

      • Two weeks quarantine won’t be a big issue for Indians or Africans committed to a one way trip.

    • Mr SquiggleMEMBER

      Interesting to see frydenburg hold the lie that migrants are younger than the rest of the population. In fact the median age of migrants is 42, which is 10 years older than the median age of non migrants

      • 》 In fact the median age of migrants is 42, which is 10 years older than the median age of non migrants《

        Would you care to share the source?
        Median age 32 is young by any standard.
        Australian (non migrants) median age is 39yo by CIA “fact” book

          • You’ve confused “aus-born” data with “non-migrant”.
            If you bring o/s born immigrants of age where they are ripe for family expansion and that occurs upon arrival, their offspring will become “Aus-born” but nonetheless still an immigrant. This affects the data in such way that if assumption is made that “Aus-born” is not related to (recent) migration, e.g. considered to be pure Aussie, it will make the “Aussie” population appear as younger.
            Remove that assumption and all turns out different because immigrants seem to deliver a major chunk of “Aus-born” populace.

          • Mr SquiggleMEMBER

            IN order to be classified as a migrant, you need to migrate in your lifetime not someone else’s.

            the ABS counts people by their country of birth. Someone born in Australia appears in the data with a country of origin as Australia (and are called non-migrants). A child born in Australia, is not a migrant, whether their parents have migrated or not.

          • Indeed squiggle,

            All i am saying that numbers are not straight indicators because they are subject to multiple vectors.

      • One of the chief criteria for pollies is that they must be a grub – Frydemburgers has that in spades.

      • median age of migrants is 42, which is 10 years older than the median age of non migrants

        That does not sound right.
        * Maybe ignoring students and temporary foreigners
        * maybe counting babies born to New Australians as non-migrants would also skew the figures.

        My feeling is that the flood of imported people is lowering the average age of people in Australia.

        • Mr SquiggleMEMBER

          The lie that migration is making us younger has been repeated so often that it has become a paradigm that most people just accept. Its very hard to register the facts with people in conversations, but when you start to think about it, how would loads and loads of migrants make us younger? What is the mechanism involved? Can they stop themselves getting older? do they have magical powers? ….

          • The lie that migration is making us younger has been repeated so often that it has become a paradigm that most people just accept.

            As per above comment I made:
            Immigrants produce significant chunk of “Aus Born” populace simply because immigrants are of age that is ripe for family expansion. There is a psychological reason that explains why fresh immigrants are likely to produce more “aus-born” populace than those that grew up locally.
            Immigrants themselves make lesser impact on local population age, it is their children.

          • Here’s a quiz for you:

            Two 30 year-old Chinese immigrate here. In the same year they bring over (immigrate) two 60 year-old parents and also give birth to two 0 year-old babies.

            1) What is the average age of immigrants in this scenario
            2) If the average age of legacy Australians is 35 years, then does this scenario lower or raise the average age of all Australians?

          • Claw

            For the purposes of expenses to the Australia, let’s say the average age of migrants is 60. Only 7 years and they will not only clog Medicare, they can also get the pension.

            Go straya.

            In what kind of delusional alternative universe do we see elderly migrants as a benefit to our country?

          • @ Claw

            The preposition is bad for Chinese immigrants: 30yo Xinese couple is likely to have parents in 50-something and not all the immigrants can bring their parents.

            As per your proposed model, If they produce 2 fresh Aus-born babies, the total group age, as per your proposition will be still 30yo on average and median too.
            This is 9 years younger than median ‘Aus-born’ Aussies.

            What you miss to take into account is that 2x 30yo and hypothetical 2x 60yo as per your proposition make the o/seas born group median age older and the offspring product of the same 4 immigrant people is artificially making what you aptly called ‘legacy’ australians younger (because the offspring will be Aus-born and indiscernible from those that first immigrated 100 or 150 years ago).

            Allthisabove is void of any emotional input.
            Ageing of population is directly influenced by extended life span (barely over 100yrs ago 70yo was very longlife) as well as delayed offspring production coupled with lesser number of offspring in food and wealth abundance countries.
            Approach that population will be rejuvenated by importing of the young is though wrong and akin to Ponzi scheme. It does short term trick extremely well but it makes future problems bad equally well.

          • Mr SquiggleMEMBER

            Hi Claw, here is my return quiz for you.

            Imagine the clock if fast forwarded 30 years. The two parents aged 60 today will be 90. The two 30 year old parents will be 60. And the two children will grow up to become 30-year old healthy functioning Australian Tax payers.

            2 future tax payers vs 4 future retirees. My two questions are:

            1) What is the average age of immigrants in this scenario
            2) If the average age of legacy Australians is 35 years, then does this scenario lower or raise the average age of all Australians?

          • Trout à la Crème

            a) Why aren’t two thirty year old legacy Australians giving birth to two zero year old babies and why is that issue not being addressed.
            b) To what extent does crush loading the country full of people have a negative effect on birth rates of legacy Australians and therefore lift the median age i.e.immigration increases shelter prices, decreased amenity etc. There are costs to immigration.
            c) If lowering the median age is preferable why isn’t it more sustainable in the long run for legacy Australians to lift the birth rate with relatively fewer people over all?

    • I don’t think the permanent migration intake is going to fall significantly in the next couple of years. This is because most of those applying are already here. There is a massive backlog for the family stream. NOM may fall however, but this will not affect the long term population projections.So it will be interesting to see how it gets spinned.

      • The interesting thing is jobs — the hospitality industry, where most of these people work, has been decimated.

        It is no secret that there is several hundred applicants for every relatively low level job advertised. For temporary migrants this is the d3ath knell. No income – they are rooted.

    • PM Morrison launching the JobTaker scheme. Millions of Australian citizens will never work again. JobTaker is a program that will help all Australians, millionaire s

    • Jim's Central Banking

      I won’t be surprised if, post vaccine, they attempt to run immigration significantly higher than the previous ridiculous levels in order to reach their average population targets over time (barf). A bit like how the Fed now views inflation (projectile vomits out a lung).

      • There is a terminal limit of absorption without causing immediate catastrophic breaks and previous immi levels were at it. They simply will not be able to ramp up immigration per annum over those levels. Losses of 2020 and 2021 will be like spilled milk

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      There is no shortage of pools to get OS students from. Sorry to disappoint you, but the only thing that might change if Pooh Bear gets a bit ornery is that the Unis make less money for a few years as they have to drop the course fees for student pools from those less affluent than Chyna.

      • Not really, unless you think Germans and Japanese are going to start flocking here.

        There is a lot of research into the demographics of our foreign students. People tend to think of China as quite poor – but rising. On a PPI – price parity – it has been the worlds largest economy for almost ten years. On a price parity measurement there are less than 200 Million Chinese living below the US poverty line (50-100 Million Americans live below this line) – while there are a Billion Chinese in what would be considered US middle class – 150-200 Million Americans.

        These types of wealth pools simply do not exist anywhere else.

        So while there are large populations the wealth required to send a child overseas to university is astronomical – from airfares, fees, accommodation, savings, etc.

        Many of those still coming require work to be able to study and that has evaporated and will remain very low. Allowing them to work while Australians are unable to find jobs will no longer be an option either.

        I’m not sure if people are underestimating China’s wealth or overestimating Bangladesh and Vietnam. They are not going to replace Chinese students.

        • Well said. Moreover, the whole world will be poorer now, so while we’re all terrified it’s going to continue, there are sound reasons it can’t. Thank dog.

        • Very good point, people treat the international student market as homogeneous, but it isn’t. Lots of different segments from the super expensive elite 8 degrees that require as you say a lot of upfront wealth through to the relatively less expensive private colleges. The top end of the market will be in big trouble as you say there just isn’t a market large enough to replace the super wealthy Chinese students filling these courses. These aren’t just wealthy kids, these are super wealthy, their sheer number as you say is a tiny percentage of a very large population providing for us 10s of thousands of students. It’s a luxury and a right of passage that can change based on attitudes etc. the mid and lower tiers are where a lot of the Indian and Nepalese students were coming from, this is the group that tends to find jobs locally to pay their way. There will be demand here as it’s not a luxury it’s a family strategy to get their kids out of their country then pull their entire family eventually. Only issue will be horror stories through the community of people not being able to get jobs etc will deter them. News travels fast in these communities.

          • Agree – this is the segment to watch and will be the one I think the bigger institutions might start targeting for revenue.

            Morrisons attack on “arts” degrees might come back to haunt him – I think this will be the focus of the bigger Unis. In fact this may very well be what is behind pushing out locals from “arts” degrees to allow foreigners into these areas. Makes sense now.

            A large cohort of these Sub-continent students would have been relying on the CBD’s for hopso work as well.

            That said – India and Nepal are in total free fall from Covid. So letting them in just wont be feasible without stringent controls – any outbreak will shutter the Unis real quick.

            Again – missing out on Chinese students who have no Covid.


        • Shades of MessinaMEMBER

          I think you are grossly under estimating the desire for South Asian candidates to leave their home countries. If they need to sign up for 10 years of indentured servitude to access low end RTO’s and live on $100 a week then they will do it – there is no shortage of candidates willing to do this.

          The only obstacle/enabler are state and federal governments. Hint: have a look at the key donors to state government, the business they own and where guys like Bailleu and O’Farell end up once they have left politics.

          • I think you underestimate the wages of people in the developing world. A medical degree from Melbourne University for example is minimum of $200k – with accommodation and living etc you are looking at close to $300k

            If you think a middle class Vietnamese family living on $15k a year is even going to come close to getting a loan for that your kidding yourself.

            A basic degree for a foreign student with living expenses comes in at about $150k

            I very much think you have little understanding of the wages and living standards in these countries.

        • Shades of MessinaMEMBER

          What do wages in the home country have to do with anything ?. It’s quite simple to borrow one semester’s fees and/or living expenses (not that anyone checks) to get a student visa – let’s call it $15k.

          Once in the country you do what you can to survive. Generally working in business owned by the community you came from.

          Unless of course you think there is a huge number of middle class Nepalis studying in Australia…..

      • call me ArtieMEMBER

        Hi Shawn. You should not be flippant with what steve has to offer

        If you take the (considerable) time to watch the content he has posted, you will know far more than most people commenting here about sars-cov-2 in particular and epidemiology in general

        (lowercase) steve is offering us well-researched information. I understand he is a doctor. That doesn’t make him god for me, I am an engineer. He knows stuff I don’t know and I know stuff he doesn’t. But steve seems to be really dedicated to rational analysis of this situation

        +1 steve from Artie

  4. First Home Loan Deposit Scheme – another 10,000 places. On ABC, footage of Sukkhole then footage of some Labor stooge saying “it’s not enough!”. Facepalmed myself. Labor can’t math. If the deposit is smaller the loan is bigger. The bigger amount under finance means more interest paid. So how is this improving affordability? FFS Labor drones, if you’re reading this can you please do some actual alternative policy work?! Higher/tighter deposit requirements (eg Loan To Value and Loan To Income) means LOWER PRICES.

    • I actually think that out of respect for the ALPs often quite epic history someone needs to tell Albanese to stop trying to impersonate Ed Deveraux acting as Ben Chifley and attach electrodes to various parts of his anatomy and turn the voltage up. They arent even entertainment value any more, just another posse of woke roundheads with all the life, diversity, self righteous hypocrisy and credibility of a public service managers meeting.

        • The Traveling Wilbur

          Yes. Unfortunately the demand for door to door feather duster salesmen dried up a long time ago.

      • Every ‘stakeholder’ EXCEPT voters.

        Donors — and various other groups including the woke media and the tiny but vocal wokerati who often have strong links to the media. The irony is that this country’s billionaires’ interests are indirectly joined at the hip with the above.

  5. From the Conversation article:

    He [Chntenberg] notes there is a broader impact from lower migration than suppressing population growth. Less migrants “also impacts workforce participation because the median age of a migrant is less than the population more generally”.

    So all of those Indian Granny Death Stares™ are just in my imagination?

    You wot?

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      Maybe just, once in a while, take off the “I love Hindus – means more burgers for the rest of us.” T-shirt?

      Should do wonders re the death stares.

      • Or failing that, be less wh_te, right? It’s not like I was born here … oh wait, no not that. That sort of talk won’t do at all. Oh dear. I know …that’s right, say it together now

        It’s a cultural thing

        • The Traveling Wilbur

          Yep. That’s the actual problem (not kidding this time). Totally agree.

          I don’t care that you get death stares. I care why you get them and why we can’t talk about that why without some moron hijacking the coversation into some convoluted rationale for behaviour that wouldn’t be thought acceptable if done by a Qld bogan, or, more recently, using it as a reason why professional female sporting teams need more support from their leagues and business in general.

          So now I just comment on it for the giggles. Mainly as I’m over trying to educate f’wits how to think critically. It’s just something I’ve learned most people cannot do for themselves. As you just demonstrated, there are lots of exceptions to that rule on this site.

  6. You angry nannas are so angry you need to smash some beers and get more bloke! Less woke more bloke ermagerd like totallly that’s Rick’s nom de plume

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        You do realize that men are the ones supposed to wear make up and be the attractive gender. Only in the western world are females expected to be pretty. In the animal kingdom males are nearly always the more colourful and the females dull to hide with offspring incognito. Native men were always the ones who wore the headress and face painting.

    • Literally what happened to Labor. Went from the bloke party to the woke party.

      The Australian Workers Party…to ..The Australian Wokers Party

      “smash some beers” I agree. I’m ready to riot for the good of my kids and my country. Better get on with it though, I’m getting a bit too old and too rich to care.

      The entire party needs a purge. The likes of Marles, Bourke, Wong, Plibersek, Chalmers etal are NEVER going back to the workers party. They are the epitome of what’s wrong with Labor, ergo Australia, right there at the head of the Labor party for all to see.

      What more do we need to know to see that Australia has lost it’s way?

      • migtronixMEMBER

        Happy day!! Will this not caring also reduce the instances of non-sequitur lefty bashing?

        • Today’s left are destroying our country. My fight against you will never end.

          I will do whatever I can to teach the next generation what you helped the elites do to their futures. Hopefully they take everything you’ve got. Can’t imagine much resistance from the soft left.

        • What’s the point of being labeled “left” if what you do, DIRECTLY leads to the oppression, poverty, and lack of opportunity, poor health, loss of amenity, and increasing crowding for Australians, along with environmental destruction and species extinction?

          The left have lost their minds. Not capable of comprehending what they are doing.

          • It’s not obscure at all. It’s the result of actually understanding and thinking about a situation.

            Study it yes. That’d be a good start for you.

    • Want a snapshot of what Australia now is?

      Check out Insiders ABC 9am. It never fails to have 4 extremely soft hosts, along with a few interviews of extremely soft politicians, along with countless extremely soft anecdotes and reflections from the extremely soft hosts and cartoonists.

      We’re going to lose our country because anyone capable of actually running a country for the benefit of Australia/Australians wouldn’t enter politics due to the extremely soft society we now now live in….and the fake MSM fueling that exact sentiment that boosts their profits.

      So, it’s all good being inclusive, giving, open, etc, but when it leads to who makes up the Parliament, it will inevitably lead to (today’s) Australian offspring being oppressed serfs and slaves.

      Great outcome huh? Great reward for what some fools (Greens and Labor and their voters) saw as generosity.

      • Well said Totes. Spineless Labor has become an unmitigated disaster for the country. Smarmy, weak Shorten with his eye on the main chance, and now the gutless Albanese, the epitome of all that’s destroyed Labor

        • It was sssssoooooo satisfying watching Labor lose. They lost the plot, and were never going to win. That they were favourites undermines the relevance and judgement of everything. What Labor thinks the Labor party should be, MSM, Labor’s own polling, polling agencies, etc etc etc.

          Beyond belief.

          I didn’t back myself and take some bets on Labor at those ridiculous odds. Foolish.

          Listening to chatter is a far better indicator of elections today than any BS ratings agency.

          Labor will never govern this country again. Certainly not without a complete reset of their front bench.

      • Actually caring about Australians is verboten these days – and that’s a given. You wouldn’t last 2 seconds at the ABC or SBC if you showed an ounce of empathy.

    • *If you are planning on smashing beers then speaking from experience I recommend buying cans.


    … A most helpful comprehensive overview …

    San Francisco Rents in Free-Fall. New York Rents Swoon. Expensive Cities, College Towns, Cities in Texas, Other States Sag. But in 16 Cities, Rents Jump Double-Digits … Wolf Richter … Wolf Street

    Work-from-anywhere, unemployment, the land rush for houses, virus-fears about elevators, the oil bust: Big shifts for the fifth month in a row. … read more via hyperlink above …
    The Flight of the Techies … John McNellis of McNellis Partners … Wolf Street

    New York City, San Francisco Bay Area are the big losers. The great 2020 exodus raises the question: Will the techies ever return? … read more via hyperlink above …

      • The huge number of foxes in Sydney will take them within a week.
        The foxes where are are seemed to be getting bigger ever yr.
        And the odd neighbor feeds them?

        • call me ArtieMEMBER

          The best thing you can do with foxes is feed them.

          They are territorial. There is a limit to the number of foxes that will live in a given area.

          Kill them off and a new generation of foxes from nearby moves in and fills up the area to the territorial limit density

          If you just feed them, they won’t kill native life or backyard chickens. Full-tummy foxes are lazy foxes. Anyway, I like them, far better than eye-pecking crows or goddamn protected insane swooping magpies

    • The only thing that I want to see SCMO put together is a coffin to bury the rest of his political career in.

      That is the one thing I would like to see cremated or buried .

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      ABC Vic did a massive puff piece yesterday on raving f#ckwit Tim Smith as well. Not a lot of journalism involved anywhere anymore. Seems they spend most of their time defending journalists from the filthy opinionated public.

      • darklydrawlMEMBER

        Churnalists! get the press release, churn it out. Knock off for the day. Asking probing questions and calling out BS is sooo 1970’s.

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      Hawaii, the chicken curry promo on Father’s Day, now the Scotty from Bunnings chicken coop promo, the aged mother and mother-in-law apparently still “bunking down” in the PM residences, Jen and the jigsaw puzzles. WTF. As DL-S has been saying recently, there’s something amiss with the bloke?

      • Think about it from a marketing perspective, why would he need to try any harder?

        He doesn’t have much to worry about in terms of polls (don’t pay much attention to polls though so could be wrong).

    • PaperRooDogMEMBER

      I get the following error, dissent will not be allowed! LOLs


      The site at has experienced a network protocol violation that cannot be repaired.

      The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because an error in the data transmission was detected.

      Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.

  8. 7 months ago, I sent the following letter to the PM about herd immunity and lack of a2nd wave in China. Guess he was busy and didn’t get it.

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    Submitted on Thursday, 19 March, 2020 – 10:03
    Subject: China may be close to herd immunity
    There is emerging evidence that the spread of COVID-19 may be significantly greater than previously understood.
    1. Primarily due to lack of test kits, there have been significant restrictions on the clinical use of test kits and it is certain that cases slipped through the net. However many VIPs around the world have been infected with COVID-19, including Tom Hanks, sportspeople, and many politicians and senior bureaucrats in countries including China, Italy, UK and USA. It almost seems bad luck to be a VIP. However are VIPs really unlucky at catching COVID-19? Or are standard testing criteria relaxed for VIPs? If the explanation is more liberal testing of VIPs, it raises the question just how many cases are missed in the general population where testing is more limited.
    2. Herd immunity is a mathematical concept to describe how it becomes increasing difficult for a virus to spread as the percentage of immune people in a community increases. It doesn’t matter whether the immunity is achieved by immunisation in advance, or by natural infection and recovery as a virus spreads through the community (although vaccination is safer to the individual). The % required for each virus depending on the characteristics of the virus. For COVID-19, it is been estimated that the epidemic will burn out when 50-60% of the population has been infected and recovered – the virus runs out of susceptible people to infect.
    3. China has about 80,000 reported cases. With a population of 1.5 billion, that is 0.005% of the population – 4 orders of magnitude less than the figure required to achieve herd immunity. Even if you allow for many missed cases and set the actual number of cases at 1 million, that’s 0.06% and still 3 orders of magnitude less than the required figure.
    4. Conventional wisdom has been that there would be a 2nd catastrophic outbreak as soon as China relaxed its quarantine measures. Yet this does not appear to have happened. There appear to be only a few sporadic cases now. International observers including the WHO have confirmed this – there does not seem to have been a 2nd outbreak. I have had anecdotal reports that things are slowly getting back to normal and the virus seems to have gone. How can this be if China has effectively zero herd immunity?
    5. Iceland has 200 cases diagnosed from contact with the medical system (e.g. someone sees a doctor with a cough after returning from Italy). Iceland is also doing population screening, and has found 22 cases in 2600 samples from volunteers. Yes the numbers are small, and you have to be careful extrapolating from volunteers who may be different to the rest of the population. They plan to test 17,000 people, which will give more robust data. However this preliminary data suggests a background prevalence of positive swabs of 1% of the population. This would be about 4,000 people – in a country where the medical system only found 200 cases. This poses the question whether the medical system is only finding 5% of cases, and 95% of cases are flying under the radar.
    6. Swabs miss 20-30% of cases and so these 22 positives may reflect 30 cases. In addition, swabs usually remain positive for 2 weeks or so before the person clears the virus, and so it is probable there were some additional people who would have had positive swabs 4 weeks ago but which are now negative. Allowing for all this, it may be that 2% of Iceland’s population is now immune.
    7. This in a small island a long way from China. If Iceland really does have 2% immunity, the figure would have to be much greater in China itself. Did the virus go through most of the population locked down in high density housing during January and February? Has China achieved herd immunity (or at least well on the way to achieving this)? Is this the reason there does not (yet) seem to be a 2nd wave in China.
    8. More of the same from Italy. One town (Vo Euganeo) tested its entire population of 3,300 a week ago and found 3% infected (mostly asymptomatic). In the commentary, the scientists stated “We did not realize at the time this was a huge number but we immediately were able to see that the majority of those who were positive did not have any symptoms.”
    9. A US study has drawn similar suggestions, and suggests the health system may only be finding 14% of cases (admittedly in a country where many can’t access the health system). These authors suggest the true number of cases in USA could be 50,000 or more – rather than the 6,000 confirmed cases.
    10. Europe and USA are at a very early phase of the epidemic – perhaps where China was in January. Yet several studies from 3 different countries all suggest a fairly significant prevalence of positive swabs in the general population. Again, what is the figure for China where this virus originated and hence where it has had many more weeks to spread.
    11. We have been working on 80% mild, 15% serious, and 5% critical, and have recognised there was also another unknown percentage which flew under the radar.
    12. Maybe the total picture is 70% under the radar, 25% mild, 4% serious and 1% critical.
    13. You would expect that China did its own research before relaxing the quarantine measures. It was not clear what the criteria for relaxing these were. However surely China tried to predict what might happen when the measures were relaxed.
    14. If China has achieved herd immunity far earlier than expected, then China is now fairly safe from COVID-19.
    15. If China enjoys herd immunity, it is well aware of this (and this may be the factor that determined when the measures were relaxed).
    16. This would be very good news for other countries – they may also reach this protected situation far faster than expected
    17. The obvious question from this is deeply disturbing. If the above is true, why would China not share this information and help stabilise the rest of the world. The spread of COVID-19 would still be very bad, but not quite as bad as we think.
    18. The rest of the world is not really looking at China anymore. Attention has turned elsewhere, and there is only a dim recognition that things now appear to be OK in China. Everyone is looking at Italy and UK and USA and the markets.

        • Look I don’t know what your background is but when we get some good quality data in reputable journals then it’s time to let down your guard(and this includes longer term data).It’s just to early to make the sweeping statements you make

          • Critical care physician. Post-grad training in public health and NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) weapons.

            This never looked like a natural act. It’s a very strange virus at a very peculiar time in global history.

            Keeping your guard up and sabotaging your economy looks like the goal of this. The virus is dangerous enough to get attention. But not nearly as dangerous as our response.

            Ask yourself how China was in a position to sell ventilators to the rest of the world who were panic buying them.

            Ask yourself why so few cases in China compared to rest of the world.

          • Look clearly you have done alot of research on this
            Maybe they actually did have enough ventilators.Maybe the draconian measures they introduced worked.I don’t know and the answers are not clear.Until they are clear I will personally remain cautious

          • This never looked like a natural act. It’s a very strange virus at a very peculiar time in global history.

            Any time in history is a peculiar time if you want it to be.

            Things don’t have to happen for a reason.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Maybe Scummo did read it Steve and you’re the reason he wants to open the borders to all but Australians.

      • Immigration needs to be opposed for many reasons.

        And Australia (and NZ) are likely highly susceptible to a outbreak of COVID. We can’t be anywhere near herd immunity. Which means we have some serious decisions to make.

        • call me ArtieMEMBER

          steve. Precisely.

          Austraia is now in an incredibly good position to manage her own future with Coronavirus. If we in Australia now manage this thing really well going forward, we have a chance to achieve a stable oscillating equilibrium whereby herd immunity can eventually be attained with less cost of life than has occurred in most other large nations

          But trying for elimination is counter-productive

          If we continue to pursue an elimination policy then when the rest of the world is relatively immune (noted:at vast cost) we will still have insignificant immunity. Austalia has not yet experienced a significant “first wave”

          If we can manage the infection rates via contact tracing and allow the gradual exposure of the population to the virus, we could come out of this with one of the best results in the world because we are a lucky island nation. But if we try for elimination we are dooming ourselves to being an isolated island economy for years with eventual failure the only outcome

          • It’s going to take a very brave politician to tell. He populace that after 6 months of various restrictions, we are at the beginning and still to have a meaningful wave. And an even braver one to suggest that at our current infection rate, it may take us several years to achieve herd immunity.

            A minority view before the first measures were implemented in April as that we were acrylic JV to early and needed to get a bit deeper in before putting on the break. The risk of acting very early was that we could stall and have delayed (rather than dodged) a bullet.

          • It’s going to take a very brave politician to tell the populace that after 6 months of various restrictions, we are at the beginning and still to have a meaningful wave. And an even braver one to suggest that at our current infection rate, it may take us several years to achieve herd immunity.

            A minority view before the first measures were implemented in April as that we were acting too early and needed to get a bit deeper in before putting on the break. The risk of acting very early was that we could stall and have delayed (rather than dodged) a bu11et

  9. ….”Labor has criticised a government decision allowing potentially hundreds of “privileged” foreign citizens paying for business investment visas to enter Australia, arguing they are taking hotel quarantine places away from 28,000 Australians stranded overseas”….

    It’s a refreshing start for Labor, but what Labor’s base case should be is It’s not in the interests of Australians to have ANY migrants taking ANY opportunity away from Australians EVER.

  10. …..”Hollywood heart-throb Zac Efron, who has in recent months become one of Byron Bay’s best known residents, quietly snuck into Sydney last week, and rumour has it he has taken up residence in the eastern suburbs”….

    Great. Now back to the city for the over rated Neighbours actor and his Spanish wife too.

    • There’s only so much of Byron Bay any sane person can handle. Good surf, but that’s about it.

      Daily it’s a freak-show. A mate of mine who lives down that way is training to be a psychologist – he’ll have no shortage of work, I’m sure.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Didn’t everyone from Byron run away to Bangalow or Mullimbimby or the like? Same as Port Douglas flock ran to Mossman to avoid the bullsh!t.

        • Sounds about right – would explain why house prices in those places are now off the reservation.

    • Less Woke More Bloke

      Only a real bloke could diss Chris by tarring him with a neighbours brush when we all know he is Super Bloke Thor with his real life hot Spanish vixen .

      That is a power bloke move. I salute you!

  11. Army’s Kapooka training base hit by fraud and corruption allegations

    The Department of Defence is possibly the biggest single contract ‘milking’ point of the public services in Australia.

    Everything from the transporting of soldiers and trainees/cadets (all recruited through Defence Force Recruiting – a private company these days) about (bus contracts), what they eat (catering contracts) cleaning up after them (cleaning contracts) much of the training they do (educational contracts, adventure training contracts), most of the doctors and treatment people in their health (extra juicy medical imaging, pathology, specialist and nursing contracts) all their consumables (paper, pens, whiteboards – yet more contracts) all their motivational session (more contracts – is there anyone in Defence who has not done a ‘mindfulness’ or ‘Blue Bus’ seminar recently?) . Then there is the oversight of the contracts, and the auditing of the contracts (and the big 4 do well out of Defence), and the maintenance of every building in Defence (all privatised and often sub contracted – and dont the subbies just love a bill payer operating through Canberra when nobody on whatever site they go to has any idea about the job they have done). It is a never ending pocket to just pick (or add a little something extra onto) for lots of contractors all over Australia.

    • Politicians see themselves as managers of an economy. Bogus polls, conflicted consultants from (unbelievably) big business, and MSM tell them what we want.

      The system is completely broken and 100% counter to our interests.

      It has to change via our resistance, or the outcome is dire. Vote LNP, Labor and Greens into history, get rid of consultants and donations, delist and break up MSM.

      • It’s more than that though — their power derives directly from the fact that the pool of funds at their disposal is highly flexible. If your budget would make Mr Bendy blush there’s no end to the number of stupid and/or morally and ethically dubious things you can do.

        This is yet another deleterious effect of having a monetary system that allows a virtually infinite expansion of the money supply. All Government power derives from this one factor.

  12. Hay Sweeper ….

    “Dr Tulip is now chief economist at the Centre for Independent Studies and published an article on Friday agreeing with Mr Keating, further arguing there “is something structurally wrong at the RBA” and most board members were business leaders with little economics training or monetary policy background.” – snip

    Hows them apples … eh …

    • what do you mean?
      I agree with Tulip on that. Said the same thing before. There shouldn’t be CEO types on the board. They don’t get monetary policy at all.
      McKibbin made the same point 9 years ago.
      An avg. business/finance type think inflation should always be low and interest rates should always be > than zero.
      They are clueless, they have no idea why they are even targeting inflation.
      To the business type its something to put on their CV for the next Directorship.
      There shouldn’t be any business types on the board. Should be all macro-economists, one trade economist, and one or two community leaders.

      • I stated it the sense used in the Good Will Hunting movie, after getting the girls number, and previously reducing the faux intellectual credentials of the ***would be*** antagonist.

        That boy is wicked smart …

        I would have thought you know I concur with you on this matter, especially the appointees on the board and their lack of operational depth let alone environmental ideological biases.

        • GDP was never intended to be used in its currant context, by its author, only was envisioned as a tool for economic introspection with in a basket of other optics eg. it has zero distributional vectors and as such over looks social dynamics.

          Hence your thoughts about GDP is not relative to the suggestion Sweeper makes.

      • “An avg. business/finance type think inflation should always be low and interest rates should always be > than zero.
        They are clueless, they have no idea why they are even targeting inflation.”

        That statement right there is hard proof you have no clue. You’re a slave, live most contemporary economists to faulty economic theory.

        ZIRP and NIRP have never worked anywhere they’ve been tried. Period. Like going down a rabbit-hole, there is only one way you can go – forward (or perpetually lower rates till — bang. Game over).

      • Again …. sigh … most don’t understand those terms as they are depicted in economics … hint its got nothing to do with moralistic equivalency between the haves and the have nots.

        • Chortle … a synthesised putative transduction of enantiomers at best … Heidegger turns in his grave … BMAGs to warm up, as they used to say in the 70s

          • boomengineeringMEMBER

            Haves and have nots.
            Asked the Papuan when back on the ship why he bothered working for $1 per day on our German ship (Aussies and Pomies paid 50 cents/ day) when at home all they could eat for free, all land for free, all betel nut for free. he explained that with his wage he could buy a transistor radio which made him a chick magnet and pull all the .( you know what , similar to being a Ferrari owner today I suppose)

          • Boom the contention is what means its arrived at eg. riches are not wealth and neither is immortal.

    • Hay Skippy…
      Since MMT thinks taxation is unnecessary, do you support Morrison’s tax cuts for the wealthy?

      • See above, think you misunderstood.

        OK so moving on to taxes … no where does MMT PK state taxes are unnecessary except in the context of the State to provision itself for goods and services denoted in its own currency which it issues as a tax credit at onset. Pigouvian taxation is another matter all together and for completely different political reasons. This is also relevant to why a JG is fundamental in structure so we can let thing fail as they ought and not be subject to zombification by having a gun held at society at large head.

          • You really need to ask that?

            Why would I support what amounts too – a chicken in every pot – of a small percentage of the population, which amounts to a political bribe for votes and like zip economic logic.

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      Chris Christie has tested positive and is likely even more overweight than The Donald.

      Everybody was up close and very personal at the Rose Garden ceremony and there must surely be more candidates. And as it turns out the RWNJ judge that the ceremony was all about apparently had the virus earlier this year.

      How great is ‘merica.

    • RobotSenseiMEMBER

      We have focussed so much on the domestic equation of housing vs banks vs government we haven’t stopped to consider the flow-on effect of other markets ending up in the poo poo.

    • darklydrawlMEMBER

      Wow – that read just like 2006/2007 – mostly just a few names have changed. Even the dodgy ratings and reasons ‘it cannot fail’ are identical!

      • Yep! While I wouldn’t want to be a shareholder in any US bank there is no way any of the big boys fail – sure their capital will be wiped out but they’ll be bailed out so that they can continue to honor the hundreds of billions of dollars in derivatives contracts. If any of the major’s is ‘let go’, Lehman-style, it’s game over for the entire global banking system.

        I’m fairly confident Jamie Dimon sleeps well at night.

  13. Surely its embarrassing to allow someone to take over so much of your brain space.
    I hate that this site gets hijacked with people expressing hatred for Trump. And the fish rotes from the head with Chris Becker (I dont understand how he got a ticket on this train)the worst and lately DLS even getting on bored.
    When I first saw this site I found it to be like a breath of fresh air compared to everything else I read with rational thinking bloggers and even the commenters. However Trump just seems to do something to people and that all goes out the window.
    I would much prefer this site to focus on the question ‘How to invest in the age of Trump’ based on his past action rather than a projection of what people think he is based on there hatred for him.

    • Jim's Central Banking

      Anyone with any sense and an attention span longer than a news cycle knows what Trump is. We have decades of Trump’s actions to trawl through. No need to resort to some dodgy armchair psychology to explain peoples dislike for the man.

      • So we take all of the available past data on Trump, we project it i to the future, disregard data that is different from projected as processing error and call “denialist” everyone that disagrees…
        Why does this sound eeringly familiar?

        • Ok Djenka this might clear it up for you.
          During the first stage of the virus this year I was able to read comments on this site that were a little left field but they seemed to make sense to me. I live in a little bit of a bubble and I was able to project future events a little better through the diverse rational opinions on this site and inturn i made some good investment choices.
          With Trump thus site offers very little in the way of that. All we seem to get is’ Trumps so dumb he’ll probably inject it’ etc. I know this site can give me more if people really thought about what comes next instead of hoping the whole thing falls apart so they can show how dumb Trump is.

          • Col, you’re fighting a losing battle. The degree of TDS on this site is off the chart and seems to pollute everything else.

          • All we seem to get is’ Trumps so dumb he’ll probably inject it’ etc.

            Posters make comments like this against a vast spectrum of different individuals and groups here every day.

            The problem seems to be you are sensitive to criticism of Trump. That’s you, not MB.

            Which is obvious anyway by the implicit definition of any negative commentary about him as irrational.

    • 》I hate that this site gets hijacked with people expressing hatred for Trump. 《

      It seems you look at this from inverted cause-action perspective. Hatred for Trump is not an external imposition in this pond.

    • > bored.

      Trump is a seriously damaged, destructive, incompetent, emotionally and financially bankrupt narcissistic bully – and a bore.

      Time to take that on board. Lol

        • Not many would argue that…. but he also started less hot wars than most resent presidents, had the economy running at full tilt and did what no one else would address and took action on china. For me that’s more important than those names you guys call him and your kidding yourself if you think otherwise

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            Trump looks after Trump first, America second. There is very little about him to admire both as a person and as a leader. If he was the head of a successful company, you’d pull your money and stick it somewhere else.

          • Are all trump haters daft. Guess what buddy. If you talk to any evolutionary biologist they will tell you we have our own interest at the heart of every decision. Maybe Trump is a little more obvious about it but to think any of us make decisions against our own interest ignorant and naive.

          • Col, MB generally give credit where credit is due (like the subprime mortgage market 😉). In the case of Trump that is rare as hens teeth. Even Christopher Joyjoy is given kudos also on the rare occasion. I think they have the balance right. Agree to disagree mate.

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            Not daft; just appreciative of when someone is applying for a job to which their attitude is wholly unsuited. Even ten seconds critically appraising his track record to date and conflict-resolution skills would let you see that; instead, you wear these weird anisotropic prism glasses that give you a perspective on it unshared by others. If you can’t look at the sum of the man and understand why he is so reviled by so many, I can’t help you.

          • I write on this site so people can pick apart my views and I can see where I’m wrong. I dont need someone to agree to disagree with me or tell me trump is no good because personality. Its becoming clearer to me why most of you beta men hate trump so much is because if you were ever an adversary to such a man you would go to water.

          • If you talk to any evolutionary biologist they will tell you we have our own interest at the heart of every decision. Maybe Trump is a little more obvious about it but to think any of us make decisions against our own interest ignorant and naive.

            So either no kids, or Libertarian.

          • Yeah, may as well reference the bible if ya gunna allude to theories such as The Selfish Gene. Like I said, kook!

          • I’m with you — TDS is tiresome. I couldn’t care less about the US or Trump but I’d be party to several conversations every week where someone chimes in with a derogatory Trump remark and then puffs up in self-congratulation, while others around laugh.

            (No, it’s not clever and it’s definitely not original, but hey, when you’ve got nothing else …)

            US ‘comedian’ John Oliver will be sad when Trump goes – his career will be over.

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      The obsession with Trump is unavoidable, because one tweet from him can make or destroy your fortune when you’re trading. The level of uncertainty is unprecedented. Even his COVID-19 positive result is from twitter.

  14. boomengineeringMEMBER

    First McCarrs Rd ride this morn in over 4 mths. Got past by everyone even the old codgers. Left too late so coped all the reds except one, record longest time taken.

  15. On Insiders today. 12 leftists including Chalmers “migration is good for Australia”….”budget should be primarily social housing”.

    That’s our alternative to big Australia, big business LNP.

    God help this country.

  16. So Trump gets 24 hr care from 10 of the best doctors at taxpayers expense meanwhile his subjects get to bankrupt themselves in a makeshift passageway in private sector land.

    • Are you blaming Trump for what has taken America centuries to become?

      Too many people, too much greed, too much privatisation. Too much inequality. Too powerful MSM. Too little democracy and lack of people voting for their countries interests.

      EXACTLY the same is unfolding in Australia.

      If you don’t want an inevitable Trump in Australia, Labor needs to change.

        • We have Morrison. Why?

          Labor being a combination of incompetent, unelectable, pro immigration, and too compliant.

          Labor’s narrative is a mess, and given MSM love Labor giving LNP everything they want, there’s no one to criticise Labor.

          Even Murdoch criticism of Labor doesn’t touch what matters. Something the bolt on Labor voters fail to understand.

          So we’re going to the next election with a choice of LNP or Labor. That’s what’s destroying our country.

        • Morrison isn’t a Trump.

          Trump is a patriot.

          Morrison is in a long line of PMs; greedy individuals who are giving away their country for their own wealth and power.

          A quantum difference IMO.

        • @ Mining Bogan

          Yep. It’s global. Decades of greed and pursuit of growth coincidental with declining standards, responsibility, care, ethics. The cult of the individual and personal wealth wrapped up in the religion of Economics.

 of the earth and her resources.

          Trump and Morrison just the epitome of what we’ve become and a fitting last hurrah.

      • Yes, sweep is. Before Trump, the US was a veritable utopia under the stewardship of a black Democratic President — what could be better than that? The moment Trump was elected the country descended into the hell it is today. Fcken obvious, innit.

      • “Not paying tax” at tax year end is not equivalent to not paying tax at all. No one can avoid GST and tax laws have generous allowance for tax avoidance thus it is not a guarantee of one’s wealth by extension.
        Neither is paying hefty taxes an indication of moral or ethical higher ground.

        • On a related subject: fair and efficient tax systems have been debated endlessly and a system based solely on GST has been mooted. Definitely an interesting concept because the people who will pay the most tax in a system like that will be the rich (including the uber-wealthy). Obviously ‘staples’ like certain food products and clothing under a certain price bracket could be excluded so as to spare the poor, but it has enough merit that it is worthy of consideration. No Cayman Islands will shelter anyone from a GST — but smuggling would almost certainly become a primary criminal enterprise.

  17. Idea for a sitcom:
    Philip and Steve’s Furniture Removal Company
    Based on the early lives of Philip Glass and Steve Reich in New York in the 60’s
    Many hilarious gags about the repetitive nature of the work
    And the phases that Steve’s life goes through
    Theme tune would be a bit like this…

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      From the experience of those who suffered from COVID-19, it’ll get better, then it gets worse. Odds are heavily in Trump’s favour, and he has the best care in the world that money can’t even buy. The bigger worry is the after effects of the virus after recovery.

      • You mean the non-stop bragging by Trumpy about how he defeated the virus? You’re right, he’ll be insufferable.

        • Indeed and with hard earned rights.

          I mean this under presumption that orange man infected himself for ratings. The most plausible scenario in my view.
          Even Sleepy Joe’s hard core supporters and severe TDS sufferers would agree that if Sleepy Joe got the virus his chances of his survival are slimmer than mosquito’s pubes.

          • Ha! I just saw a screenshot from the video Trumpy sent out from hospital. My first impression was that he did look quite pale. Then it dawned on me that the reason he normally is orange is not because of rude health but because of the make-up he wears. It seems that in the video he was not wearing any make-up, making him look unusually pale. I can’t imagine the size of the conspiracy for Trumpy to be faking that he is infected. But then again he did cheat to get into uni and he did invent bone spurs to get out of the Vietnam War.

  18. What is going on in Victoria – the State is an absolute shambles. How much longer can these lockdowns last now that Jobseeker/Jobkeeper is rolling over?

    There are some suburbs with zero cases for months – why are they still in lockdown? Likewise some regional areas that have recorded 6 cases the whole year – why do they have to wear masks or have any other restrictions?

    There are poor countries in Eastern Europe that are pulling this whole thing off with far more finesse and a fraction of the resources (though admittedly they are pursuing herd immunity stealthily)

    The situation is becoming ludicrous. The protesters should have planned their actions to start now, not months ago.

    • If you push real hard you can fit a whole lemon up your nose. You sound like you’ve tried it. Few of you around here have probably had a go….

    • I think Morrison is trying to run 3 clear campaigns against state Labor governments. The media are hounding Andrews with questions from Canberra, Dutton has led the charge against Queensland (after Morrison was left red faced politicising the funeral issue), and the Attorney General has been in cahoots with fat Clive to undermine WA’s border restrictions. I think the latter has totally backfired, with McGowan more popular than ever before.

  19. …”Another 10,000 first home buyers will only have to save a five per cent deposit thanks to an extension of a federal government scheme…….to obtain a loan for a new or newly built home with a deposit of as little as five per cent, with the government guaranteeing up to 15 per cent of the loan”….

    Insanity. On top of reckless lending?

    Where does this all end?

      • “This tells you everything you need to know”

        Yep. Everyone in Parliament should be opposing this.

        I remember a broker describing Newmont mining for me to short as “a very sick company”.

        Australia is a “very sick country”.

        It’s not going to end well, particularly for the plebs. Labor and Greens should be screaming about this.

        • happy valleyMEMBER

          Appalling – property prices automatically up by ~$200k, then totally irresponsible lending to go with that. Property developers will have serious tongue rash this week.

      • Practically the same scheme has been going in the UK for a while, it is just middle class welfare there as well……anyone who can qualify for this scheme can qualify for a bank mortgage. It is those who can’t get a bank mortgage who need a leg up.

      • This feels like a do-nothing announcement. The income limit hasn’t changed – 125k max for a single, 200k for a couple. Who is going to be eligible for the max amount? Can’t see the banks jumping at this one.

        • happy valleyMEMBER

          They’ll do what they are told and as Josh told them they can now lend totally irresponsibly after the five minutes of responsible lending sanity from the Hayne Royal Commission, why would they argue?

    • So we insure buyers for banks in case they can’t pay. Developers get more sales, banks get free insurance(less risk) and more loan business. What does the taxpayer get exactly? The buyer realistically gets a higher priced home and a higher risk of losing it and any built up equity in case of a fire sale. Can anyone show this will actually create new builds or just sell those already in pipe to get developers out of trouble and save their capital? Taxpayers should at least get some kind of equity share for the free insurance or boost to developer turnover!

      • The message is loud and clear: you should have chosen ‘property developer’ as a career — gold plated income

  20. Random testing seems to be the best way to find community transmission of the virus, but we seem to lack capacity. Here is what the UK is bracing for now, you can see the time lags for the young to infect the over 65 years cohort. English in laws of ours are connected to the NHS and say it buckled in initial surge and they lost some of their best and brightest…..they are worried about a re-run

    Hey Gunna since you’re an Albert Tucker fan, this is a couple of my Grandfathers paintings. I know the photo quality isn’t the best. Because it’s a photo of a mirror my cousin is making for me. But you can see the artwork on the walls. As I’m sure I mentioned my Grandfather and Albert were best friends and I have fond memories of him as a kid. I do miss both my grandfather and him at times.

    Anyway when lockdown ends I am going to find a couple of my Grandfathers pieces which are my favorites to put up in my house.

    You can see they had similar styles.

    *edit I’m guessing lockdown is a barred keyword. Looks like my comment went to sin bin.

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      Tried to ask Mining Bogan about his recuperation but eveytime it stated that you posted too quickly slow down., so eventually gave up.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        I’m good as gold Booma, just firing on less cylinders. WuFlu has slowed down some more tests but the cardiologist doesn’t think there’s anything too urgent to worry about. Now I’m settled in to mostly zone 2 training to get the base back plus one day of interval runs and one bike/run brick day. I’ve lost speed but I was always just making up numbers anyhow and never anywhere near the sharp end. Swimming to come soon hopefully ’cause I’m a hopeless swimmer.

        Just finished a 40min ride/30 run brick and I’m in terrible shape. It’s a long way back.

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          I was hoping to ask details from go to woe leading up to event and beyond. .
          Btw the steeper the up hill the less advantage of the bike over foot
          traffic even for the best riders and the more advantage of the flat and even more on down hill run.
          Ps just popped some magnesium tabs for cramps and I hate pills of any description.

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      Gavin recommend you hang those paintings up. My father’s oils are up here and am amazed at the quality. You would never have picked him to have so much talent in that regard, portrait,
      , landscape, room scenes. He left me for dead and I topped the school in art.

      • I’m not a great painter. I’m creative in other ways and outlets though. Just never been that great at the visual stuff with my hands. I’m sure if I spent more time watching Bob Ross tutorials that would change.

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          Its funny how I’m such a lousy painter of walls or such, impatiently throwing on the paint and trying to cover cracks resulting saggy runs.

          • That’s because you’re impatient. If you took the time to do it. I’m sure it would be fine. I just made that mistake on a steering wheel I’m restoring for someone. I used too heavy a urethane coating and it got a run. So I had to sand it back and do it again. Grrr… I hope the customer is happy with it. But easier ways to make money for sure.

      • Thanks, my sister has my Grandfathers talent. She is a good artist / painter. Very creative writer also.

        It sucked growing up with her talent 🤣.

  22. Thanks for the comment yesterday Casus Belli..and thank God there are a few of us sane ones left. This country is like Shutter Island. Waay too much coolaid going round for waaay too many people for waaay too long now. People here on MB need a reality check…median wage is the true indicator and in Oz it’s jus just over $48k (before covid). The vast majority of people do not make $250k a year. They do not invest in classic cars or have a lazy million dollars in the bank. Many of the commenters here are so divorced from reality that it feels like I’m reading a Ray Bradbury story.

    • I applaud your use of median income not average income. It is the one for equity type arguments. Am I going to need to wade through all those above to see what you are talking about though?

    • Yeah I made 21K the first tax year back in Straya. I made 31K the second. Haven’t done my taxes for the most recent year but I know it aint 31K due to Covid. Making the median wage with my health issues in Straya is a far off dream. I could earn so much more in China which was why I stayed for so long. Anyway thank god for loving parents.

        • Yeah well that’s the joy of having an invisible disability. Income poverty. When my doctor diagnosed me he told me he hated chronic fatigue syndrome because it was a death sentence (ie the life you would have led and the person you would have been, died). I said I hated it because it was a poverty sentence. In other words I can’t do highly paid work because I can’t work full time, I’m ‘allergic’ to stress and you become very risk adverse wrt putting time energy and money into reskilling into another career (been there done that once and I can’t pursue that career because cfs, so I’m reluctant to do that again esp when you consider the labour market and migration in oz plus ai and automation/robotics). So my only hope is to increase my understanding of the economy and how to invest and make sure those investment decisions play out as well as possible. I’m finally starting to get some runs on the board in that regard plus I’m improving my underlying condition so I’m relatively optimistic I’ll be able to look after myself, but yeah it’s not easy, esp as I’ve decided that getting into a relationship isn’t something I’d consider until I’m what I think is financially independent, so I’m doing this all single. Anyway this is another reason why I think Covid is bad news, there’ll be an epidemic of cfs and that will suck big time for those people, Esp if those around them don’t understand or believe it

          • Kudos to not throwing in the towel Pop wish you the best and hope the girls produce plenty of eggs for you.

    • I assume the classic car comment is a dig at me? But wages in Sydney and Melbourne can be very different to Wagga yes.. and that’s why houses in those areas cost a lot more.

      FWIW I bought my first vintage car(s) when I was a student earning minimum wage at the local video store. But I was living at home.. and back then people said old cars were a waste of money.. I can’t tell you how many times people said I should just sell it to buy a modern car… But I guess it’s besides the point.

      I don’t agree with house prices in his country, but I have had to accept that it’s just the way it is. When I lived in Ireland I recall house prices dropping but the desirable areas snapped back and recovered a lot more quickly. To me it was an important lesson that waiting for the pop and to buy at the bottom is much harder than it would first appear to be able to pull off..

      If MBers think they can do it and manage it, I’ll applaud them for it. No envy on my behalf. Serious. Because I thought I could do it, but gave up.

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        For every one knocker you have hundreds of supporters. You are just paying the price of your honesty of financial situation.


      By the way I find it fascinating that Melbourne doesn’t even make the list. Sydney gets a mention though. I tend to think our house prices are also a reflection of the cost of building here.

      Lots of red tape, land constraints / zoning etc.. so until those things are addressed I don’t see much changing.

      I also looked at what my money would get me globally right now (yes I accept globally housing market prices are generally bubble prices) but on a relative basis I don’t think houses in Melbourne (in many parts) are completely extreme – compared to many other cities. Sydney is its own kind of stupid.

      I personally think $550k for FHB stock is not bad..when you consider interest rates ATM.. a couple earning $80k each. In Melbourne for example.

    • We tend to socialise in a similar demographic to ourselves. That’s why people who are very well off (e.g. earn $150k plus a year) don’t feel like they are. I’ve had a number of discussions with teacher friends and they seem to think we are underpaid unless you go into leadership. But in NSW a classroom teacher can make about $125k and then if you are able to do a few extras you can get $140k quite easily. That puts you in the top 10% of income earners quite comfortably. When you point that out they become a little less annoyed about how poorly teachers are paid. I had a good friend who earned $38k as a truck driver and it opened my eyes to just how good an income $100k really is.

  23. So it turns out when you strip away the snowflake rhetoric, tough guy posturing, shouting in people’s faces, righties aren’t that tough after all. Was ever thus. Studies have shown lack of humility and inability to consider others is closely tied to weak resilience. When things get serious righties never face the music.

    • RobotSenseiMEMBER

      It also shows they are as mortal as the rest of us. It’s a bit of a relief to see Boris being torn apart every QT by Starmer right now; finally the great bullsh!tter has his chickens come home to roost. I don’t think he makes it another six months before he’s turfed by his own party. You’d just wish Labor had someone in the pipeline similar to Starmer here; they all seem content to keep clipping their tickets.

      • Realistically they’re weaker than avg. which is why they try so hard to camouflage it with the tough guy posing.

        • Sure, sweep, but ‘righties’ (as you call them) still hold all the top jobs in private land. What now?

  24. Lets look at where our international students come from and how many could/would come now if we were to start opening the border. I think Scomo will do this early next year but will only start with countries that have a low Covid case number.

    Country or origin / Approx % of total
    China 40%
    Have the virus situation seemingly under control but issues with govt tension so that demand would be less.

    India 25%
    Zero chance of opening the border to India

    Nepal 10%
    See India

    Brazil 6%
    As above

    Vietnam 5%
    Virus under control so this could be viable.

    Malaysia 5%
    Cases fairly low but rising at the moment.

    Korea 4%

    Colombia 4%

    Indonesia 3%

    Thailand 2%

    So even if you opened to the border to International students from countries with an ok virus control the demand to what we used to have would be absolutely smashed. Having said that Scomo could try flying in students from counties with high cases but from areas within that country with less cases.. who knows.

    • Agree.
      For mine, the smart money is pricing the relentless political attempts to reboot it in but also the realistic probability of it coming back. It will be back in some form but in my view nowhere near the previous levels. Akin to the once in a lifetime boom WA had with China and iron ore.

      Can understand the thinking behind why some think it will be v shaped considering its the norm for the last 30 years.

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      I think you mean hyperdeflation, but of course if you include house prices which Howard stripped out of the CPI calc in the early 2000s we would have had hyperinflation ever since.

  25. migtronixMEMBER

    Still hate the #istandwithdanners, hating everyone generally a little more each day

    F#@& you skippy and you taking you kid to football at 70 something or whatever the [email protected]#%

    I hate @ê%&] {ïj$^’

  26. boomengineeringMEMBER

    Mining reply wrong spot.
    The steeper the hill the less advantage until ithe bike becomes a disadvantage.

  27. call me ArtieMEMBER

    I think Albert Tucker is a psychologically powerful painter

    The world and people looked ugly to him and that’s what he painted

    I would also add that I thought Namatjira’s Archibald Prize painting this year was great. Same reasoing

  28. As I was driving from the beach and my wife was napping I ran few scenarios in order to see who whens US elections. I could not come up with something realistic where Trump wins.
    Only if MSM goes full tard and turn undecided voters to Trump then there is nothing stopping Biden. Off course Biden needs to avoid covid19 at all costs as this virus will make him lose rest of his memory.
    Waiting on couple of more signals to confirm my view before I make big moves on few stocks.

      • TailorTrashMEMBER

        Getting quite the thing isn’t it (this one has paid a subscription at least )

        Let’s have

        Erno plumbing
        Travelling Vilbour
        Wiley Wood
        ….and on and on …..
        …..infiltrate and disrupt …….the lads must be hitting a few nerves …….

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      Nah, they’ve done a superb job of totally debauching the financial system, savers and depositors and trying to tell us that at zero interest rates our “questionably strong banks” are among the finest credit risks in the world? Seriously?