Coalition to open Australia to infected international students

If Melbourne’s quarantine failures and lockdown has proven one thing, it is that Australia’s international border must remain closed to all but returning citizens and permanent residents.

Otherwise, we risk repeated importation of COVID-19, fresh community outbreaks, and a never-ending series of costly shutdowns.

Alas, it was disconcerting to read yesterday that the Morison Government still intends to open Australia to international students at the first available opportunity:

“We are a welcoming nation with a world-class education system and some of the lowest rates of Covid-19 in the world.

“Students want to study here and we want to welcome them back in a safe and measured way when it is safe to do so” [acting immigration minister, Alan Tudge said]…

The education minister, Dan Tehan, said Australia’s “remarkable efforts in controlling the spread of the virus mean we can begin to welcome back international students in a Covid-safe way once state borders reopen and face-to-face learning resumes”…

Australians universities have begun drawing up plans to allow international students to return to the country under a series of pilot schemes.

There is no such thing as a “COVID safe way”, especially when key source nations like India, Nepal and South America are literally overrun with infection.

Nor should Australian taxpayers have to foot any part of the costs associated with quarantine, including accommodation, feeding, supervision and testing. These costs must be 100% borne by the students and universities.

New Zealand, which has eliminated the virus, has ruled-out welcoming back international students anytime soon because the costs are too great.

Australian policy makers should take a leaf out their book and aim for elimination coupled with stringent quarantine for returned residents.

Otherwise, we will forever experience rolling lockdowns and the associated economic carnage.

Leith van Onselen
Latest posts by Leith van Onselen (see all)

Comments

  1. Unbelievable…if Aussies put up with this…they deserve what they get..Coalition ” money before People..”

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      The question I have at this point is if they are going to allow students back in are they going to slap them in a quarantine hotel at their expense for 2 weeks, as they are now mandating with Australian citizens?

      • But they are simple poor students, those Aussies are rich. So the tax payer needs to fund those students quarantine. And if they end up positive, fund their healthcare too.

        • alwaysanonMEMBER

          But at the same time educating them is an “export” and totally not funded by the work they are doing here…

    • billygoatMEMBER

      Australia’s international border must remain closed to all but returning citizens and permanent residents.:)
      Jokers…how many bat flu carrying, ex woooo ham residents are covered by this ‘but’

      Meanwhile as part of charade cos ‘we’re all in this together’ Dans thug mates in uniform will revenue collect via fine issue for newly mandated not law ‘wear a mask’
      Only half wits and conplicits are blind to contradictions, holes and general lameness of Covid narrative (Story, theatre, play, event)

  2. Gladys Berejerkjoff keeps banging on like she’s in control of the virus and outcome.. lol.

  3. So the masks are key to getting the PR Visa rort aka “face-to-face learning” back into full swing again I now see.

    • billygoatMEMBER

      Yes VIC and NSW require the mask $ hit show to get ‘numbers down…watch them miraculously fall to below turty thee (Irish) 21 12 7 then zero:)…gullible punters will then feel less bad about jet loads of returning students clogging roads & services again..aka new normal and buying houses…Masked Up F Wit Nation aka re raised rents equal happy landlord. Raising house prices equal happy banks, owners, furrrrrain students, lawyers brokers, tafe, unis and private colleges & foodie kulcha.
      Riding World Wide idiocy within 1.5metres near you right now:))

  4. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/20/australia-to-restart-granting-visas-to-international-students-to-lift-struggling-university-sector

    Why do online students need a visa?
    Answer: they don’t.

    Then why are we giving them?
    Answer: Because then no foreign students would want to study at Australian universities. There would be no point. It’s not about the education. It’s about the visa. The universities are well aware of this. The government is well aware of it.

    It’s a visa selling operation on a colossal scale. With colossal revenues. Government gives the visa, university takes the payment. Australians wear the cost.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Yeah Yeah,…but Dan Andrews let that security Gard fk that COVID-19 Sheila!
      Thats the real story!

      • No. Ermo where’s the opposition on this. Don’t play games with the MB comments

        • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

          Oops,…sorry Tones.
          You are of Course correct. Our current situation is all Labor’s fault due to them being a crappy Opposition.
          The News Media are supposed to play a similar role to ya know. Fat chance of Labor wagging that Dog though.
          It’s got same Master as the coalition.

          • Jumping jack flash

            Liblab answer to the same bunch of masters therefore they are pretty much the same party. Looking to Labor to save us is as futile as expecting Pauline or the Greens or mad Bob to be able to.

            They’re just following the book, and with their own self interests in mind.

          • Answer the question .. Where is that ‘workers hero’ Albo? And yes your ALP has betrayed the ordinary people like ME and YOU.

      • Arthur Schopenhauer

        Ermo, the party you belong to is 100% behind this. It’s in the Party’s culture now.

      • There were no Sheila’s involved,

        The security guard and the sub-continental guest were both blokes, doing a bit of sword fighting.

    • billygoatMEMBER

      100% MB commenters are either blind or con plicit with BS Covid narrative. Aussie born students enrolling in tafe, cert 4 or uni obliged to pay full fee and subjected to full online head [email protected] treatment that is the zoom classroom whilst over head your bat flu carrying, soon to be new neighbors landlord are disembarking at Tullamarine. Why? Cos these ‘students’ need to studying in a classroom with lecturer imported from their home town so they can all understand each other.
      Thank God everyone is mandated to cover their face. I feel safe

  5. SoCalSurfCreeperMEMBER

    This is really fckn outrageous. Bring out the pitchforks. Foreigners will be allowed to come and go before Australian citizens have the same basic freedom. This is seriously backwards. There is no other country on earth that would consider this. This kind of BS is the reason people vote for nationalists, and rightly so.

    • Spot on. The clueless, blatant corruption and greed out in the open, yet still none so blind as those who will not see (left/right and Greens).

      We deserve what’s coming

  6. All very predictable. East Asians won’t come here because they are germaphobes at the best of times.

  7. Someone asked me a Q re is it possible we could have civil war in Aust , I thought more social unrest and violoncello
    I think we have now crossed the line
    I believe we are going to see major.outbreaks of violence anger protests social unrest more so where I’m from in Melb, I think the temp has been turned up a few degrees and it’s enough to get people realiy angry

    I’m not sure but I think you’ll see AUST split maybe WA split off, but that’s a discussion for another time

    The social chaos and uprising first

    • DominicMEMBER

      That there’ll be violence and unrest is a given – but it’s roots will be economic in nature. Covid oppression and restrictions of movement will simply amplify the deleterious economic situation leading to a pressure cooker situation.

    • Know IdeaMEMBER

      Maybe we move in different circles; I remain a little more circumspect about any large scale rioting in Australia. The muppets only seem to perceive a false race/gender/sexuality war when there has been a blatant class war ongoing for the last few decades.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Yep people are retreating into their preferred little group bias tribes. Ready to war with other little group Bias bias tribes over diminishing resources. While no one even acknowledging the plutocratic enemy that oppresses them/us all

      • I know everyone thinks that, stimulus won’t go for ever, many who have nothing and no hope left have nothing to lose.
        Take away a mans livelihood to feed his family….I think many Australians believe that bad things happen in other places
        We won’t get the virus here
        House prices won’t fall here
        We would never have violence here

        We are straya

        • bolstroodMEMBER

          What you are describing happened in Australia in the 1930’s.
          Read up on the New Guard and the Australian Communist party.
          Read Power without Glory
          Read some of Henry Lawson’s work
          Very nearly came to civil war in Sydney between the Working class Commo’s and the Facist New Guard.

    • Jumping jack flash

      “…civil war in Aust..”

      Nah, maaaate.
      Nobody is armed, nobody could be arsed, everyone is in debt up to their eyeballs and frantically trying to keep a job to make the repayments.

      However if the food ran out and/or the Netflix was turned off then there could be some mild unrest.

      • Yes correct
        But a few things are going to happen over time.
        Job keeper stimulus hand outs wound back
        Loss of employment
        No way to pay the mortgage
        No more series to watch on Netflix- seen everything on there

        Once we reach this point ….. things change very quickly

    • Bcn
      Agree it’s only a matter of time. The millenials will take a while to arouse but the trigger will be mass unemployment, homelessness, followed by food and oil shortages while the 1% isolate themselves in their ivory towers (Canberra) and gated communities (Toorak/Brighton)

      All happened before in the last 100 years on multiple occasions.

      Oh, but we’re different….

  8. And there’s a BLM rally scheduled for next week in shyteney 😂.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/jul/20/nsw-police-chief-vows-to-block-black-lives-matter-protest-planned-for-sydney

    Ironic? Definitely moronic and selfish.

    How has mass stupidity got so out of control in Australia?

    Everyone willing to selfishly participate in the gatherings should be all put on the next flight to South Sudan or any country in Africa. Let them protest and actually do some work there if they genuinely care about black lives.

    These gatherings are a mixture of bored spoilt brat kids born with silver spoons in their mouths and bored troublemakers.

    • working class hamMEMBER

      Can we get an Australian lives matter rally?
      Govt would just fine everyone then call them unaustralian.

      • DominicMEMBER

        Not really. If you’re white, you’re toxic and your life doesn’t matter at all to the obscene extremists who have suddenly been given free rein in the West.

          • DominicMEMBER

            Ivan, I didn’t realise it but there are actually exemptions for ‘entertainers’

        • If you’re white, you’re toxic and your life doesn’t matter at all to the obscene extremist

          Do you actually believe this?

          • Really not sure if you think it’s not true, or if you are just gauging others opinions. In case you are that far out of the loop with where things are going – and Australia ALWAYS goes where America lead – ALWAYS – then brush up.

            https://taibbi.substack.com/

            Yes – its that bad.

            CISCO just fired any employs who were forced to have a company wide meeting and were asked their views on BLM – anyone who questioned it, or even stated that they felt all lives were important – was fired.

            I honestly find it quite shocking how out of the loop some people are the extremities of toxicity being displayed by the BLM movement – its flat out white supremacy dressed in black cloaks.

          • It’s always interesting how others make assumptions about far in or out of a loop or something others are, based on a simple comment.

            I’ll leave it there though – the comments on MB are just way too feral in a lot of regards now. No place for nuance and discussion.

            Everyone’s too busy getting morally outraged at both ends of the spectrum./

            Carry on!

          • DominicMEMBER

            Do I think these left-wing, woke, cultural Marxist extremists wish me dead? Yes.

        • JJF, it’s interesting to see that one comes to feel like that. Siege mentality.

          As a white male in a good job, I do feel privileged by my circumstances.

          At the same time, I don’t feel at all under attack or that being a white, white male etc is toxic.

          Anyhoo, that’s just me.

          • Thats because you are completely and utterly out of the loop.

            Fair enough – ignorance is bliss after all.

          • @swamy
            “the comments on MB are just way too feral in a lot of regards now”

            Agree. Perhaps if ignored, they’d disappear.

          • robert2013MEMBER

            It has become socially acceptable among progressives to silence anything you say with “old white male” now. I am white and male and wasn’t quite prepared to be called old when it happened to me last year. I’m in my 4Ts BTW. It is no different to “OK boomer” – both are discriminatory ways of silencing someone without regard to the reasonableness of what they actually say. This represents the end of the enlightenment. People believe more in interests than they do in reason. God help us all.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            It is no different to “OK boomer” – both are discriminatory ways of silencing someone without regard to the reasonableness of what they actually say. This represents the end of the enlightenment. People believe more in interests than they do in reason.

            You should take this up with the instigator of this thread, given that’s how he opened it.

          • DominicMEMBER

            Not up in NNSW you won’t and maybe it’s the media (which possibly you don’t read much), but cultural Marxism is sweeping the globe and we’re constantly being made to feel to guilty for being white – which is absurd. I have nothing apologise for.

            Frankly, I just see identity groups grasping for an excuse for their own failure.

    • DominicMEMBER

      But Les, to not let the BLM protest go ahead would be far more damaging than any that could eventuate from Covid infections spiking – I know this because a conga line of progressives and other extremists have lined up to make the case on the ABC. True story.

      • bolstroodMEMBER

        Do I think these left-wing, woke, cultural Marxist extremists wish me dead? Yes.
        No I don’t Dom, honest.

        • DominicMEMBER

          Obviously said with tongue in cheek, bols, although a couple failed to pick that up – never mind. That said, I feel glad that I have 2 daughters — which puts them in one of the ‘identity groups’ i.e. they’ll be positively discriminated in favour of (as things stand now), but who knows what the world will look like when they reach working age.

          • bolstroodMEMBER

            I also have two daughters, one of those daughters has two daughters,
            My grandaughters.

    • They mean well. Just never had to suffer any deprivation and are mindbogglingly ignorant and brainwashed by the Greens, who are the real culprits here.

      If the Greens first priority was to the environment as they claim, their first concern would be for the total the rorting, graft, destruction and total unsustainability of the population Ponzi.

      Instead they knowingly perpetuate it. Pitchforks for the Greens who are thus worse than ll the others combined

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        If the Greens first priority was to the environment as they claim, their first concern would be for the total the rorting, graft, destruction and total unsustainability of the population Ponzi.

        Most of Australia’s serious environmental problems have little to do with high immigration.

        The vast majority of land clearing, to pick one example, is for agriculture.

        • Deforestation and land clearing are only part of the overpopulation story. If there were no people there wouldn’t be a problem.
          Ergo, the problem is people x their consumption.
          More people = more consumption. More Westernized people = even more consumption.

          The extra people need food, indirectly causing more pressure on the land and farmers leading to more deforestation, topsoil loss, erosion and aquifer drawdown..

          The also need housing, jobs, hospitals, schools, etc

          So people with low consumption lifestyles, who come here for one reason and one reason only – to assume as quickly as possible and by any means, a high consumption lifestyle, the higher the better, are turning from being low consumers into high consumers.

          While these newcomers don’t go to farms or clear forests, they add to the now massive expansion of cities and the paving over the tiny pittance of fertile arable soil Australia has on its coastal fringe, thus turning the cities into the death-traps they are soon to become once the water and food trucked in now from afar stop coming to restock the just-in-time supermarkets.

          Oil shortages will make a mockery of Australia’s claim it feeds 70 million. Without all the trappings of industrial farming, the imported tractors, harvesters, balers, fertilizers, pesticides, trucks etc, the population carrying capacity as estimated by the CSIRO and Tim Flannery 30 years ago, is not more than eight million.

          So yes, our immigration Ponzi s not only inconvenient and expensive in crush-loading our cities, schools, hospitals, public transport etc, but the pressure to clear ever more land to accommodate and feed them is hugely deleterious to the environment and is completely unsustainable.

          If we still had the population we had after WW11, as Sweden largely does, we’d be well prepared for the tsunami that’s coming. As it stands, our folly and greed will prove ruinous.

          • bolstroodMEMBER

            +200
            The Greens support for “Big Australia” gives the lie to their Environmental “concerns”.
            Which is why i no longer belong to their party.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            Deforestation and land clearing are only part of the overpopulation story. If there were no people there wouldn’t be a problem.

            Don’t hurt yourself carrying those goalposts around. Your original complaint was about immigration, not global population.

            We clear land for agriculture mostly to serve export markets. Similarly for things like mining and fracking (and their accompanying environmental consequences) – export markets. Lower Australian population would not change this much, merely result in a higher percentage of our production serving exports.

            Land use for urbanisation is a rounding error. You could put every household in the country on a 1/4-acre block and it would comfortably fit into 1/5th of Tasmania. You could literally triple the population and the land required for them to live in would still be <1% of the country. Even considering it tends to be relatively high-value land, it's still not really significant.

            As the climate change deniers are always keen to point out, Australia's emissions are insignificant on a global scale. Even massive increases in population would leave them similarly insignificant, and that's ignoring the substantial fraction of them that are created in the process of producing exports, and thus irrelevant to local population (and immigration).

            Ergo, the problem is people x their consumption.
            More people = more consumption. More Westernized people = even more consumption.

            Yes. Nobody disputes this.

            But “people” – especially consumption increases due to elevated living standards – is all but impossible to influence, particularly on a global scale and in a meaningful timeframe, within reasonable bounds of ethically, morally and politically acceptable behaviour.

            Changing “consumption”, is, relatively speaking, far easier.

            Your focus is arse-about-face if your concern is environmental bang-for-buck (within reasonable bounds of ethically, morally and politically acceptable behaviour). Heck, even if you were going to go down the “forced depopulation” route, it would be far more efficient to eliminate the 20% of the world’s population using 80% of the resources (ie: western countries), rather than the billions of people in third-world countries living hand-to-mouth.

        • Your arguments as usual are specious, and you are the one moving the goal posts not I:

          I did not refer to global population at any point– what I said is that contrary to your claim that immigration does not cause environmental damage, such as land clearing, Australia’s population growth, over fifty percent of which is derived from immigration, does, and has, caused huge environmental damage both directly and indirectly and is unsustainable, particularly given looming resource restraints – oil, topsoil, climate, water to name a few.

          As for your hypotheticals such as placing all Australians on quarter acre blocks in Tasmania, which is logistically absurd, the fact is that we don’t, and never will for obvious reasons. Ditto your claim that we could triple the population and still use less than >1% of the land is equally absurd for the obvious reason for starters, that most of Australia is desert. And while successive governments for the last 50 years have tried to cajole, legislate and demand migrants move to perfectly amenable country towns, they don’t.

          Ditto your claim that we can change our consumption – but we don’t, despite the dire necessity for it having been drummed into us for decades – not the woke Carlton Yuppies, nor the BB retirees, nor the politicians, business reps and endless tourists flying here there and everywhere at a whim….indeed, history and data records show that rather than decrease per capita consumption, we are increasing it.

          I wonder do you actually believe what you write? I suspect you argue for the sake of it rather from an ingrained belief and passion for a particular point of view. Unfortunately I find your veiled aggression and irrational arguments uncongenial to an honest to and fro of ideas.

          • Moreover, your addition of exports into your argument that migrants don’t cause environmental damage is also specious. 

            In catering for an ever-expanding population, we need ever more income in order to pay for the additional services, accommodation, roads, hospitals, schools healthcare, etc.required.

            Had we followed Sweden’s example, and simply allowed for natural increase, we’d now have a population of around12-14 million and there  would be far less need to dig up and ship out every last drop of dirt, gas, oil, food etc to pay for this lmassive expansion and much of it could largely have stayed in the ground, thus preventing millions of tons of green house gasesfrom being emitted – which currently place us 5th in the world of GHG polluters.

            What an ever expanding population creates is an ever-expanding need for income to pay for food, housing, land, roads, schools, hospitals required. 

            The end result is rising greenhouse gasses and destruction of the environment, soil, water, forests, and ultimately, when the resources of a finite land/planet run out, a starving, collapsing population.

            Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            I did not refer to global population at any point– what I said is that contrary to your claim that immigration does not cause environmental damage, […]

            Well, that was my interpretation of “no people, no problems”. Too used to dealing with rich42. Doesn’t really change any of the points though.

            On the other hand, I said nothing like “immigration does not cause environmental damage”:

            Most of Australia’s serious environmental problems have little to do with high immigration.

            .

            […] such as land clearing, Australia’s population growth, over fifty percent of which is derived from immigration, does, and has, caused huge environmental damage both directly and indirectly and is unsustainable, particularly given looming resource restraints – oil, topsoil, climate, water to name a few.

            Most of which would happen regardless of immigration or population growth, because it’s done to support exports.

            As for your hypotheticals such as placing all Australians on quarter acre blocks in Tasmania, which is logistically absurd, the fact is that we don’t, and never will for obvious reasons.

            FMD this deliberate misunderstanding of the point gets tiresome.

            The point is not to move everyone to Tasmania. The point is to pull up a map and look at how little that represents of the overall landmass of the country.

            Ditto your claim that we could triple the population and still use less than >1% of the land is equally absurd for the obvious reason for starters, that most of Australia is desert. And while successive governments for the last 50 years have tried to cajole, legislate and demand migrants move to perfectly amenable country towns, they don’t.

            Urban land usage in Australia is something like 0.25% of the whole country. So even if tripling the population tripled that amount – which it wouldn’t – it would still be less than 1%. It’s not “absurd”, it’s maths.

            It (mostly) doesn’t matter where the people go, the overall land usage is (basically) the same (if anything they’d use less around big cities, but it doesn’t really matter).

            To be clear, the point here is not that the population can or should be tripled. The point is that the amount of land used by housing is insignificant. Ie: the environmental impact of immigration from a land clearing perspective is basically irrelevant.

            The same is true of most other serious environmental issues like industrial pollution, mining, fracking, overfishing, invasive species, soil salinity (and water sustainability in general), etc.

            The suggestion that with fewer people we wouldn’t be trying to increase exports to make everyone (or, more likely, a handful of people) richer is absurd. Like everything else, exports are demand-driven. The *only* thing that has presented even a speed bump to things like more mining, more logging, more farming, etc, for export, have been the Greens and other environmental movements with protests and “lawfare”.

            Ditto your claim that we can change our consumption – but we don’t, despite the dire necessity for it having been drummed into us for decades – not the woke Carlton Yuppies, nor the BB retirees, nor the politicians, business reps and endless tourists flying here there and everywhere at a whim….indeed, history and data records show that rather than decrease per capita consumption, we are increasing it.

            Per capita energy consumption in western countries is already in decline (a result of stable populations, increasingly efficient technologies and to some degree probably stagnant incomes).

            The coming economic catastrophe will smash general consumption (eventually) as well.

            Proper investment in renewable energy, public education campaigns alongside suitable regulation and legislation could also improve consumption fairly quickly and with little pain. Per capita resource consumption in, say, Australia vs Switzerland (or Sweden since you seem to have them on your mind) is dramatically different but few would argue there’s any meaningful difference in living standards (having lived in both countries I can confirm).

            I wonder do you actually believe what you write? I suspect you argue for the sake of it rather from an ingrained belief and passion for a particular point of view. Unfortunately I find your veiled aggression and irrational arguments uncongenial to an honest to and fro of ideas.

            LOL. You didn’t make any attempt to engage on the points raised, just derisively dismissed them, but *I’m* the one arguing for the sake of it and being aggressive and irrational ? Get fvcked.

    • Scab Quarantine Security

      I don’t understand why everyone everyone protested over the accidental death of a career criminal in the US.

      It’s the other side of the planet.

      It would be like protesting the accidental of a criminal in Honduras, in South Africa, in Russia, in Pakistan.

      I don’t get it.

      The previous president was black for crying out loud.

  9. “A safe and measured way” So basically international students will be prioritised any vaccines before average Aussies…..

  10. Imagine Australians being forbidden from traveling while paying quarantine costs for foreign students … that will make electorate very happy with the government (there are more Australians with overseas holiday plans on their mind than property investors, plus those property investors are going to vote LNP regardless )

  11. Yep. Tell foreign students to come here to study but then stay home? No uber or job to supplement their earnings?
    Tell em they’re dreamin..

  12. reusachtigeMEMBER

    We should open our borders very soon so that we can save businesses and introduce new strains of the virus sooner rather than later so that we can obtain heard immunity to these new strains making us stronger.

    • letting Australians travel interstate and overseas would do everything cheaper and more efficient

      • Yep especially killing old people!

        Reusa is satirical but you’re just a psycho.

        • on border opening million BBs would flock to virus infected Europe cruises …
          we wouldn’t even need to spend money on health care while gaining full (not herd) immunity

          • I don’t remember Mengeles methods included letting people to go for holidays while also gaining immunity early to the disease that may kill them later in life.

          • I’m not yet convinced immunity persists more than a few months … but your arguments about BBs are genuinely compelling…! 😁

          • If that’s the case and you are right about immunity, no vaccine will ever work so all old people will die sooner or a bit later regardless of what we do

  13. Arthur Schopenhauer

    The fundamental problem is every business outside the Mining Industry and Food production, is tied to the Real Estate Ponzi.

    There are a tiny number of niche manufacturers that export products, but on the whole, just about all the industries that employ the vast bulk of Australians rely on Real Estate inflation for income.

    Federal and State governments have worked for 30 years to simplify the complex economy that had be painstaking built since World War 2.

    The core institutions of government cannot see anything other than a Ponzi economy, and so we repeatedly get this sort of idiocy. Visas for nothing. Having debased education, they have moved onto debasing citizenship, somehow telling themselves it will not have a negative effect on the nation.

    If you look to our north, the Japanese government spends a lot of money fostering and maintaining a complex economy. For example, Japan’s F-2 fighter (an F-16 variant) cost four times as much as an off the shelf F-16. The real purpose of the program was to promote and maintain heavy manufacturing and all the associated small businesses.

    So now the Ponzi is teetering and we are essentially a cargo cult, how do we shift from the lunacy of an economy of RE speculation back to production?

      • Arthur Schopenhauer

        Ermo, I’m one of those fools that runs a business that once serviced manufacturing and is now desperately trying to find customers outside the pall of the RE Ponzi (hello North America!).
        Over the years I’ve met senior Liberal and Labor members. The Labor members are as captive to the RE Ponzi as the Libs.
        I admire your commitment, but I have rarely seen a large organization with a bad culture turn itself around from within. In the cases where it happens, the change comes from the top.

        • Jumping jack flash

          Hats off to you Arthur.

          The cargo cult is strong. It is mostly the banks who have created this mess. Banks also have the ear of the government, especially so during the 90s when this was all created. The only thing that matters is the banks, and the only thing that matters to the banks is their interest payments. Keep that in mind and everything else makes sense.

          The debt seems to be shrinking at an astonishing rate though and with that comes all these problems we now have. It seems they have given up on trying to grow the debt because they’re out of interest rates to cut. I may be wrong but it seems this may be the case.

          Perhaps covid is a fine excuse to deleverage? The world certainly needs to.

      • Arthur Schopenhauer

        All that said Ermo, I do think there are openings for strong independent candidates and that people should get involved in the political process.
        Our local Labor candidates are an insipid machine man at the state level, and the daughter of the former Deputy Premier of Victoria at the federal level. That doesn’t inspire any confidence in the Policies, People and Processes of the Victorian Labor Party.

      • The Traveling Wilbur

        And the Freudian slip of the day goes to… EP!

        Probably true both ways though. Sadly.

  14. “Nor should Australian taxpayers have to foot any part of the costs associated with quarantine, including accommodation, feeding, supervision and testing. These costs must be 100% borne by the students and universities.” – you are dreaming. lol

  15. The last two paragraphs pretty much sums up this issue and there’s nothing else to understand. If we:
    – Lock down our borders and have strict quarantine of arrivals even potentially off the mainland (what are people still doing arriving here I don’t get – its been months now?)
    – Eradicate the virus within our borders so we can have a domestic economy with a comparative advantage compared to the rest of the world.

    • Arthur Schopenhauer

      The difficult part is rebuilding the domestic economy. The investment required needs a long term bipartisan policy.

  16. Why would students come here now? Serious question. I don’t see any appeal any more for them.

    • Because white western welfare states like Australia are a nirvana to third world immigrants that make up the overwhelming numbers of our international students, this is guaranteed when residency pathways and work entitlements are included.
      It will always be better for third world people to come to Australia, because it will be better than the third world poverty dog eat dog world they are leaving.

      • robert2013MEMBER

        How much cordial to have to add to a glass of water before you call it a glass of cordial?

  17. Leith, any views on the SIV visa?

    https://www.afr.com/property/commercial/collapsed-property-group-iprosperity-faked-its-own-chairman-20200720-p55dow

    “Mr Gu claims to have raised more than $1 billion from investors since founding iProsperity in 2010. This included about $180 million through the federal government Significant Investor Visa (SIV) program.

    This gave wealthy foreigners permanent residency in Australia and a pathway to citizenship if they invested $5 million into a complying fund.

    Investors now fear the $180 million Mr Gu raised through the SIV program may also be lost.”

    Even if these investors get their money back, I’d like to know what is the benefit to Australia of this type of visa, and this type of investment?

  18. nexus789MEMBER

    Aside from the virus many of these students can’t support themselves without working. Is the tax payer going to support them as they won’t find work?