Sunday Supplement: 22 March, 2020

By in Links, Miscellaneous

| 832 comments

A surplus of optics, Bridgid McLean, 1976, Art Gallery of NSW 

 

Macro & Markets

Asia

Americas

Europe

Terra specufestor

Global Macro

…and furthermore…

…and coronavirus…

 

Latest posts by Gunnamatta (see all)

Comments

  1. JamesTheBearMEMBER

    Self isolation week 2….I am going absolutely stir crazy….still no signs of any infection though. Thanks for the reading materials

    • Dominic

      Agreed. 3-6 months more of this? Mental illness will get us if Covid-19 doesn’t. The human race is doomed.

      I need a hug!

      Plus, Kenny Rogers died – but not of ‘the virus’ – presumably he was doing what he did best.

    • Popcod

      I’m starting week 4 of self isolation today. First 2 weeks were major social distancing, but it’s been self isolation for a few weeks now. I broke my toe at end of Feb so that meant no work; Dr/dentist visits and one grocery shop only in the first 2 weeks. So far I’m coping ok but olds went away for 10 days which helped (they’re now back but we are all interacting well and pulling together nicely). I have chronic fatigue syndrome so staying at home and not doing much is my ideal situation (though 10 hours of work a week would be nice). I have to admit that having to deal with a debilitating illness that steals the life you want to lead from you does mean that I’ve already gone through a major emotional adjustment that everyone else will have to deal with, so I know I have adjusted to self isolation relatively easily. I had however managed to build a very good life that I was extremely happy with given my limitations. I’m sure I’ll have an emotional adjustment to make later on about that disappearing, but if I manage my investments right I may actually get a lot closer to the life I really want (living quietly in the country somewhere on some land that I own mortgage free). We are on a couple of acres outside of Melbourne so having access to a nice environment outside without fear of infection is a life saver. We are very lucky. I’m starting to get active in our veggie garden, considering starting to learn Italian, cook a lot, knitting, calling friends, doing frustrating jig saw puzzles and looking after myself both mentally and physically as much as possible. I am finding that being online too much is not good for me. Finding a limit between being informed and being overwhelmed is difficult. Reaching out to friends is super important. I’m now at the stage where I think I need to develop a more detailed action plan to fill my time productively with a mix of physical and intellectual activities (do I reactivate my fast disappearing Chinese skills?), as well as getting through a list of chores that have been delayed for years. Good luck and stay safe!

      • BoomToBustMEMBER

        Keeping mental health in check can be a battle all by itself, I have an IT company and with little effort could spend hours at a time in my chair not moving, I find that stopping what I am doing every hour or so and walking for 5-10 mins and making a call or 2 is great to break things up and get some exercise, I also bought a Garmin watch to tell me to “Move” when i’ve been inactive for 60 mins.

      • DingwallMEMBER

        Yep each of us will follow different pathways to stay above this. I rent at the moment so a large veggie garden is out but I would like to have some fresh stuff from the little mobile beds we have set up. Let us know how you progress.

        This morning, someone started playing a piano with what sounds like songs you would play as you move from beginner to slightly better than beginner. …… It was close by so I hope that is not their pathway ………. 🤪

      • Diogenes the CynicMEMBER

        Sounds a good plan. Learning a language, gardening, home projects, writing, photo projects, family history research, painting, sewing/knitting, puzzles/games, music – create your own playlists, reading – so much to do, so little time! It is great you don’t have to mentally adjust too much, many seem to be struggling with that.

        • Popcod

          Oh yes photos! Organising, editing and maybe putting them into book software to get published (the olds do that religiously after every trip they make) is for deep self isolation, winter will be a good time to do that. It’ll be emotional going through all my China pics etc, so I’m going to leave that for a bit. I think I might write an exhaustive ‘while I’m in self isolation’ wish list of things to do and skills to achieve and then I’ll qualify all items by a few criteria including appropriate times to begin, skills that could be useful in a post viral world etc, and ensure that I don’t end up wasting this time. I also need to look at this period of time as a gift. Not one I would have chosen, but a gift none the less. I have just finished spending a good hour watering the veggie garden and I loved it. Dad and I are sort of muddling through various veggie patch chores. He’s got the main brunt of things but I’m helping. And you are right, so much to do and so little time if you think about things. But I am enjoying the much slower pace life

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        That’s the thing isn’t it, hoping we come out the other side in a better place. An instrument, a language, a new skill and understanding. Look at the bullsh!t consumption lifestyles we were leading and leave it behind. No debt!

        In a way Scummo did us a favour by losing control. If he got it right we would have continued on with their ridiculously stupid life thinking we’re different. Again. Pity about the horrific amount of people about to die though.

        • Popcod

          Agree. It will be interesting to see the post virus world we end with. I am cautiously optimistic that if we don’t go full Mad Max that we’ll get that less materialistic, slower and focused on what really matter world with the resulting values change. I think there was a big enough movement to consume less prior to SARS COV2 that it will gain momentum and come out victorious in the end. Fingers crossed!

      • LSWCHPMEMBER

        The best way to get a gut level understanding of calculus (I reckon) is to use for what it was originally meant for and apply it to Newtonian mechanics. For exanple, Look at the equations for linear motion and see how v = u + at and s =ut + 1/2at**2 relate to each other. Differentiate the second with respect to t and see what happens…whoa..velocity and acceleration are related like that!! Draw graphs with rectangles under the curve to see what’s going on as they get thinner etc…It’s a heap of fun, and lets you see the physical world in a different way.

        Disclaimer:I’m an engineer. Your mileage may vary.

        • ArthurMEMBER

          Thanks LSWCHP. I started out as a mech eng at Sydney Uni. Got thru second year OK , but the maths got too hard in 3rd year. This is basically because I was slack, I had bought a motocross bike with my summer holiday pay and all I wanted to do was race, not study.

          Strange how it has hung around as a feeling of failure for all these years. I will give it a red hot go

        • SwampyMEMBER

          Takes me back to year 12 specialist maths and physics and uni math 👍

          Shout out Mr Taylor Gisborne secondary for making math rad and Claude at RMIT for Fourier Transforms

  2. Arrow2MEMBER

    How good is tonight’s painting!

    I think it looks like a property bull observing this week’s auction clearance rates… Sydney down 20% in a fortnight…

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      Counterfiat
      Get yourself down to Narrabeen. The yobbo’s have it wrapped around everywhere. Saw it on the way past on the bike ride, on guard rails ,lamp posts, seats you name it. Think they raided all the public toilets.

    • JohnRMEMBER

      Sarah @MaidenSarah1
      I just called RSPCA to tell them I’ve found four badgers in a suitcase by side of the road.
      Operator: “Are they moving?”
      Me: “Oh I never thought of that. It would certainly explain the suitcase.”
      I feel silly now.

  5. Hill Billy 55

    After isolation, what jobs can the government get going to improve amenity and give gainful employment to many? Firstly I suggest digging lots of ditches to put the electricity and other wires under ground. They are the biggest eyesore in the country.

  6. footsore

    Can we get some city by city round ups? The only two I’ve got any notion about are Cairns and Darwin.

    I’ve been chatting with a few who are involved in tourism in Cairns and it’s all over. Quite a few have lost their jobs and others are cut back and waiting to lose their jobs.

    Darwin, from what I see, is slowly self isolating. Different groups are deciding to put off events. The people I’m talking to are staying in as much as possible. I’m not sure about businesses, or the government.

    The general mood from those I’m chatting with across the country is that this is bad and action needs to be taken now. Many are now recognizing that action should have been taken weeks ago. Someone better stumble across some leadership in Canberra and quickly figure out how to use it. Even those I know who normally see no wrong with the LNP are having a crisis of faith.

    • darklydrawlMEMBER

      Given how much of the LNP rhetoric and myth was based on “Only the LNP will keep the borders strong and the country secure”, they sure screwed this one up.

      The one time we did actually have to shut the borders in a timely manner to protect citizens, they didn’t.

      I love our ‘leaders’ claims along the lines of “we cannot shut the border, that is not going to happen” to a week later “ummm, we’re shutting the border”. Idoits. I know numberous LNP voter type who feel betrayed by this action alone.

      Other folks are also (finally) joining the dots. Heard comment like “we do we make ventilators here” and then had the realisation we’ve largely offshored our manufacturing and skill base.

    • ChristopherJ

      Agree, foots, Cairns is fooked for the present, with many hotels at 20 to 40 per cent. So lots of un and under employment in hospitality and the tourism sector is decimated, with many on reduced operations or closed up completely. Many of the prev employed were visa holders anyway imo so I am not going to miss them. Another outcome is less vibrants to pick the fruits and so on, as they’ve gone home or aren’t coming. Hence fruit and veg are in short supply and prices are up by about 30 per cent at least and while I may not like it, it is good to see the ag sector get the better side of negotiations when they deal with the supermarket chains at the moment.

      Just about all my mates are casual in the trades or services sector. They are all concerned about how they are going to make ends meet. Some are not in the tax system and will not be eligible for any govt help.

      Sick of the govt directing loans and grants to businesses. Give the money to the people, you cunts, no means testing, every fucking citizen. Yeah, nah, not going to happen.

      Weather’s been fab for last two weeks or so, but overnight 15mm and ongoing showers this morning have put paid to Sunday golf for me and missus, but we drove out there anyways and said hello to mates who were prepping to go out. Yeah, nah, back to being shut in. Would have been nice to have a hit; am living proof you can keep lowering your handicap as you get older.

      • Narapoia451MEMBER

        Not to sound callous but if you aren’t in the system how can you expect the same support as workers or businesses that are?

        Workers in the system pay tax, small businesses that employ legally have a whole range of costs and cashflow pressures from their tax obligations. How do you avoid tax, with the associated benefits and then expect the same assistance from the govt when everything goes wrong? Devil’s advocate here – but surely you can see the moral hazard?

        • footsore

          While I usually have nothing but scorn for the tax dodger I think that this circumstance collapses our recent norms. I’ve seen people promote the idea of 80% of a wage to be paid by government. When nobody is working it means we are all unemployed so we should all get the same amount. The difficulty will be in outgoings, which is where the no rent, no mortgage, no interest comes in. Put everyone on level ground. Right now it is food and shelter and medicine. If we do this at the beginning then it is easier to see everyone as the same and to get through it together. The virus has shown how ridiculous our notions of difference and class are, let’s at least take that one lesson as a good thing that can come out of this.

          • ChristopherJ

            Used to have scorn for the tax dodger too, but was happy to pay cash to get a discount, so go figure.

            After working in government for most of my adult life, I came to a strong and informed conclusion that our Federal Government never spends those taxpayer dollars in the public interest, more in the interests of themselves, their donors and their mates.

            More recently, I realised that taxes, at the Federal level, don’t fund anything and only destroy the dollars they’ve previously spent into the economy.

            Going to be difficult to persuade the usual unemployed that the new unemployed are somehow deserving of more than Newstart, but I am sure they will try.

      • bjw678

        “Some are not in the tax system and will not be eligible for any govt help.”
        Can’t say I have a huge amount of sympathy for people avoiding their taxes complaining about not receiving help from the government.
        What goes around comes around.

        • DavidMEMBER

          It depends on how you look at it. The ones sitting on their backside on welfare will get plenty extra to continue to sit on their backside. A tradie who actually does something and is outside the tax system won’t. Don’t forget that a tradie who actually buys any materials, tools, etc., through normal trade will pay GST on it & not be claiming any of it against their labour as they are not submitting a BAS. So they are actually contributing something to the tax system, just not as much as they should.

      • footsore

        + many to everything you said. Especially the cash to the people.

        I’ve been chatting with the old boy. It’s hard to get him to take it seriously. However he is slowly coming around. Anyhoo, in foolish defiance of my hopeful demands that he self isolates he went down to BBQs Galore. There was a run on cylinders and a big line up to get refills.

        Mum’s involved in every community group under the sun. They’ve all stopped. Which was good. As she said, her concern is that places like U3A and the Esplanade exercise classes are the big outing for some people. Let’s hope that people take this as an opportunity to reconnect with those that they have been too busy to get in touch with. Reaching out will be the most important thing many of us can do over the next few months. The only other option I can think of is take up meditation and try to reach satori. I think that I’ll go with the former.

      • happy valleyMEMBER

        How are that new hotel The Riley (?) and its other developments (Port Douglas Mirage Marina etc?) owned by the foreigner billionaire going?

        • ChristopherJ

          Invested at the top, but what an investment. Made a lot of locals very flush. Blood money or not, he’s spent big when no one else was taking a punt on Cairns. They were trading well, spent heaps on recruitment.

          Now, their market at the top, relying on fly ins, is gone. Who knows when things will return to normal, if ever

        • footsore

          They’ve done their first round of sackings and cut backs. A friend who works for them was joking about applying at Coles but is still there.

      • happy valleyMEMBER

        How are that new hotel The Riley (?) and its other developments (Port Douglas Mirage Marina etc?) owned by the foreigner billionaire going?

    • Joe

      Read a good way to combat virus is to exercise and get some rays. So went for a solo bike ride along coast yesterday morning. Utterly surprised how many people were at cafes sipping lattes in large groups. No social distancing. This is SA though – obviously that brain drain has only left mental midgets.

      • SwampyMEMBER

        Took the new izalco max out this morning (trying to decide if I like it more than my Supersix Evo) – absolutely cracking autumn day northern rivers. No wind and warm. Not one single other cyclists and I’m on a cycling route (2km KOM around the corner from ours) – absolutely dead

    • Randy Will

      Panic buying seems to have calmed down here in Radelaide since Smoco told us all it was unAustralian. However Woolies prices for most fruit and veg have basically doubled. Not sure if that is unAustralian though

      • GunnamattaMEMBER

        I went into a Woolworths in Geetroit this morning and I must confess I was a tad shocked to see just how much more expensive they are than Aldi – notwithstanding that I am told Aldi are legendary tax avoiders. Most of the veggies (where both have the same – and Woolworths have much more) were noticeably more, the most was also very obvious, and as the father of a kid (who doesnt mind the odd icy pole) I couldnt help but not the Frosty Fruit ice poles I get for 4.99 at Aldi were being palmed off for 7.99.

  7. MaryleboneMEMBER

    Regarding the decision not to close schools, I’d have thought that once they are shut then so too will childcare centres and kindergartens. I’ve read that childcare centres won’t be charging fees for absences (like they are now if you pull your kids out) if they’re forced to close. Doesn’t Mrs Dutton have quite a large childcare business operation?

    In addition to the perfectly feasible Uni census payment reason, is this simply a Game of Mates decision?

    • Dominic

      Yep, March 29 will be the tell. Would they be that outrageous? Surely not.

      In any event schools will be shutting.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        This is going to be a difficult week for them to control the narrative.
        It could end up being A bridge Too Far and destroy them and thousands of Australians.

        • darklydrawlMEMBER

          Agree. Even the schools will struggle to stay open until Thursday next week. The infection rate is moving too quickly for them to control the situation. I still have money on the Uni’s closing 1st April. Would they be that bold and brazen? Probably. They are thick as two planks and greedy as swine from what I can tell.

        • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

          Speaking of controlling the narrative, after years of yelling abuse at SBS and then coping an earful from the missus about how she can no longer enjoy watching the news in peace, I could barely contain my surprise last night when she started yelling at SBS news calling them lying propagandists.

          The reason? She read this article this morning:

          https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/03/china-coronavirus-blame-victory-propaganda-trump.html

          Then she saw every exact criticism of our media and their singing from China’s narrative when she saw SBS news.

          Red pilled by a Slate article – who would have thought.

          Once you see, you cannot unsee.

          • darklydrawlMEMBER

            Last night my Lovely said “we should take the kids out of school. I cannot trust this Government”. Proud of her.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            I just had a raging row with a sister on a group chat who took offence that I referred to it as Wuflu instead of Covid19. Apparently although ‘it was terrible ‘people’ are rewriting history, Trump is still an ignorant racist’

            The gist of her complaint is that because little Asian girls have been teased (or imagined they’re being teased) it is more important to use the inclusive term Covid19, and side with a murderous bunch of communists, than side with Donald Trump because of ‘feelings’. That the ‘people’ doing most of the arguing are Chinese or Chinese NPC’s in the media weaponising wokeness at the behest of a murderous regime that nonchalantly released a plague upon the world, seems to be totally irrelevant.

            My eventual point that it would currently at this time make zero difference for little girls of Asian appearance being teased about the origins of this virus as to whether it was called Covid19 or Wuflu, but would make a big difference around controlling the future narrative, was met with silence.

          • Mining BoganMEMBER

            The boy yesterday overheard an angry rant over the back fence about Scummo pulling his kids from school and forcing everyone else to send their kids out to be infected.

            “Does that mean he doesn’t care about us?”

          • Ronin8317MEMBER

            Welding shut the door of citizens so they can’t leave the home should never be regarded as ‘victory’. Xi is not a hero. After he stuffed up the initial response, he followed the advice of his scientific experts to fix the issue. Japan, South Korea, Singapore, etc performed much better than China, the media should be praising them rather than Xi.

        • Dominic

          This Govt is so out of its depth it’s not funny – they deserve what’s coming to them. Having gone from ‘she’ll be right’ apathy to suddenly realising they were behind the eight ball and now just throwing any old sh*t at the wall and hoping (sorry, ‘praying’) some of it sticks … incredible.

      • NikoMEMBER

        from what I read and hear lot of people already stopped taking their kids to school. Next two weeks all will – basically no one listens to the Gov and there is general consensus we are managed by lunatics and criminals.

        • darklydrawlMEMBER

          “managed by lunatics and criminals”. The only upside it is seems a lot of people are waking up to this fact rather than blissfully thinking it will be ok as the Grubbermint is in control. It is screamingly obvious (and more so everyday) they are not in control and are making decisions on on the fly to try and arse cover as best they can. (with the obvious caveat that it is not your arse they are trying to cover).

      • TrotsMEMBER

        Schools should be shut. However message needs to be out there to take your kids out now if you can. At the very least it will help schools get closer to the ridiculous 4m^2 spacing. My sister (primary teacher) was in tears on weekend at the dangerous indifference being shown.

    • ChameraMEMBER

      Your theories are the best explanation for the departure in our policy compared to every other country. Their argument about kids being fine doesn’t make sense. It actually makes them the most effective vector in the community. Kids won’t self isolate when they catch it, clearly this will amplify community spread. Kids also catch it, we’ve seen multiple school closures, so the advice just doesn’t make sense from an epidemiologist perspective.

      • darklydrawlMEMBER

        Deepthroat was right. It DOES makes sense if you follow the money. Otherwise it is just nuts.

        • Ronin8317MEMBER

          I think ScoMo is just nuts. There is no money because the Chinese students are all leaving.

          • darklydrawlMEMBER

            Yep. We’re going to get the worst of all options because our leaders are smug halfwits who are hoplessly out of their depth and put profits before people. My only condolence is I didn’t vote for these morons.

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      But hasn’t Mrs D’s centre got a fed govt contract (rolled gold) which was the potential problem (now dead) for Mr D?

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      But hasn’t Mrs D’s centre got a fed govt contract (rolled gold) which was the potential problem (now dead) for Mr D?

  9. Dominic

    Never mind … the Euro is as solid as ever … solidariteeeee …….. wheeeeee …….

    To all the Euro pumpers who thought it could succeed … look in the mirror …

    • karlooMEMBER

      I told you to save in Euros. Without cowboys from CBD London expect more of the same.

        • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

          I don’t have the energy to Troll two online sites at once – and besides I feel more comfortable as an outlier than running in the middle of a pack, engaging in group think, which would be the case if I posted on ZH. My hold on reality is tenuous enough without unending positive reinforcement.

          • BigDuke6MEMBER

            It’s past it’s peak. It was never the same after George Washington’s article. “Experts agree that 9/11 was an inside job but disagree who did it”. I bookmarked it and it no longer is easy to get too. You have never readsuch a treasure trove of interesting links. The purges came after and that was that

    • NikoMEMBER

      their problem now is that the health system is overwhelmed and people that could have been saved can’t. soon we will be in same position and some of us will perish.
      this gov is making sure we get our Italy moment.

    • DavidMEMBER

      I have quite a few mates who aren’t the best with maths. When they think that we don’t have many cases I use Italy as an example of what can happen and how fast. Italy is currently doubling about every 5 days. To give that meaning I say that all the cases that they have had since the first one over a month ago will double in just the next 5 days. Australia is currently only a bit over 3 weeks behind Italy in numbers but with less than half the population.
      Australia is currently doubling every 4 days. At that rate we will be around 158,000 in 4 weeks time.
      But it’s still ok to go to school. We really better lower that doubling rate or our hospitals may soon look like northern Italy’s.

  14. ComingMEMBER

    To continue on the conversation I was forcing on people the previous links , and apologies:

    Thank you for confirming that intermittent and/or graduated lockdowns will be enabled

    Is Australia not doing the right thing by letting the virus run a bit first before closing everything?

    If we need everyone to catch it is it not sensible to allow a few thousand cases before starting lockdowns, and then intermittently allowing more or allowing a slower gradual progression

    I read that we have enough ICU beds to handle critical patients when there are 45,000 overall infections

    A lot of criticism has been made here, but we do need every Australian to catch it over the next year or so ?

    So no point slowing it too much or too early, right?
    We need it to progress through the population, but just at a manageable rate

    I assume someone has modelled the growth rate to get us to near 45,000

    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-21/coronavirus-the-case-for-endgame-c-stop-almost-everything

    But this endgame c seems unrealistic – to extinguish the virus completely with only a few thousand cases in 8-12 weeks
    It would also mean closing the borders permanently until a vaccine arrives which would kill the unis and tourism industry

    • desmodromicMEMBER

      No on all accounts. You assume there are degrees of control that aren’t available. There are two choices, Singapore or Italy. Most are choosing Italy because, you know, think of the economy!

      • ComingMEMBER

        The Singapore restrictions seem quite lax relative to Europe and US

        https://www.stb.gov.sg/content/stb/en/home-pages/advisory-on-covid-19.html

        this is I an extremely densely populated country reliant on mass transit and air conditioning/indoors

        In fact it even seems less strict than Australia

        https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-20/singapore-seeks-to-stop-virus-spread-without-full-lockdown

        432 cases in a population of 6 million is relatively a lot more than Australia too

        Why do you feel Singapore is the model to follow ?

        • Arthur Schopenhauer

          Singapore are tracking contacts with known cases and isolating them very quickly, using mobile phone metadata.

          In comparison, our government departments are incompetent and rely on outsourcing all high end technical skills to consulting firms. The same goes for Coles and Woolies, which is why their online ordering system have collapsed. No skill(z).

          So we are left with pre-internet techniques to control movement and restrict spread.

          People, Process & Product (production plant & equipment) as they say in MBA courses.

          • bjw678

            Coles and woolies shut their online ordering because it is filled from store stock and they simply couldn’t supply half the items in an order.

          • ComingMEMBER

            And yet their schools and restaurants are open

            They have relatively more cases than us per capita

            Are you saying you’d be happy with a laxer but more high tech containment method ?

            I’m not having a go, I don’t have an expert opinion, but there seem to be inconsistencies in the attitude of posters here (not necessarily you)

          • Ronin8317MEMBER

            Singapore can keep their school open because most of their cases are still imported. In Australia we have got to the stage where community infection is greater than imported cases last week.

        • Arthur Schopenhauer

          Coming, there are 2nd and 3rd order issues around the medical equipment, raw materials for making sanitizer, oxygen and general meds. There is also fragility in Australia’s logistics system, particularly Diesel supply (mostly refined in Singapore, only 2 weeks supply in tanks here) and truck part inventory.

    • Gone Baby

      So would you like to volunteer to get infected and be part of the “maybe ” will have immunity if they got it once before? Also you can report to us how are you coping etc..Ta

      • ComingMEMBER

        Yes I’m young and healthy so very unlikely to be symptomatic let alone die

        If immunity doesn’t develop after infection, then it won’t develop after vaccination
        In which case, this will never end ?

    • ChameraMEMBER

      Well it’s more complicated than just the level at which things are lock down. China, South Korea and Singapore all had very rigorous testing regimes. This includes testing anyone that is suspected of having the virus as well as taking temperatures at all locations. For example when you enter or leave a building your temperature is taken. If elevated you are immediately taken to a fever clinic where a chest CT and Covid19 test are done. You are kept isolated at the facility until you get your test result. If positive you aren’t sent home for isolation as you will infect your family. They isolate you at the facility. It’s actually better to lock down early and test extensively. Locking down after thousands of cases like Italy and without these testing and isolation scheme in place will cause uncontrolled spread. Main reason for this is that the virus can spread from people who show little to no symptoms. Also reason Italy is getting worse after lockdown in my opinion is it had spread prior to lockdown. After lockdown infected ppl are spreading to families….

      • ComingMEMBER

        Yeah so wouldn’t that be the move here?

        Otherwise you are basically looking at shutting the country for 12-18 months

        Which simply isn’t feasible

        I’m sure people would rather accept 3-4% mortality

      • TrotsMEMBER

        The strategy should be or should have been lock down hard now. For 3-4 weeks. While in lockdown, build up preparedness refitting hospitals, mass production of PPE and test kids, mass education of hygiene etc training of people in basic nursing. Then release lockdown and test and trace like mad. Know thyne enemy before going to battle.

        • bjw678

          Cool plan. but we don;t have the capability to ramp up production in weeks. I’m sure we could get a mask production factory up in a few weeks, but that would require a fabric production facility to make the masks from, which would require polyester production facility to make the polyester to make the fabric from, which requires feed chemicals to produce the polyester, which requires chemical production and oil refining facilities, which require raw materials.
          I don’t know how much of that chain still exists in Australia, but I wouldn’t be betting on anything above the raw material stage.
          And it’s going to take more than weeks to build up the rest of the chain.

    • Pfh007MEMBER

      Coming,

      No need to permanently close the border but no need not to enforce quarantine of arrivals for 2-3 weeks either.

      There is no reason we could not create a single point of arrival and require all arrivals to submit to 2-3 weeks quarantine in a quarantine facility. Randwick racecourse might work or Richmond airbase.

      I am in no hurry to road test theories of achieving immunity through infection but if you do I wish you well.

      I haven’t had the flu for many years but I am careful about personal hygiene. Hopefully that will help me avoid COVID-19.

      I don’t recall anyone suggesting that people should go and get a flu strain just so they can develop immunity to that strain even though most flu strains dont require hospitalisation.

      Perhaps once we have had 100,000 infections and treatment protocols have been refined it will be fine to get it and get it over with but I am happy not to be part of that test cohort.

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      If the ‘herd immunity’ concept works, then why does measles with an infection rate of 12+, didn’t go away until we have vaccination?

      • ComingMEMBER

        Before a vaccine was available, infection with measles virus was nearly universal during childhood, and more than 90% of persons were immune by age 15 years.

        It’s just that it killed choldren (because adults were dead or immune) and caused birth defects in pregnant women

        So much more concerning than this boomer remover

        If 90% of people were immune to wuflu it wouldn’t be any big issue
        We’d just let it rip

        • GavinMEMBER

          You’re forgetting that WuFlu has 2 strains already. It may mutate again and become worse and more aggressive. It’s obviously highly contagious too. So it’s definitely a concern because we don’t yet know how to fight it effectively. The more it spreads the more likely it is to mutate and become harder to control.

      • desmodromicMEMBER

        Herd immunity is a concept associated with vaccination not infection. When we have a vaccine and 60-70% of the population are vaccinated, and some of the remainder have recovered from infection, only then will we will have protection.

  15. doctorX

    Don’t take life so seriously: Montaigne’s lessons on the inner life

    this is a misunderstanding of Montaigne
    his main idea related to happiness (and life) was that happiness is impossible because it so much depends on “external” things, like our own health or wellbeing of to us important people around us. As such, our happiness is going to be repeatedly destroyed and that’s beyond our own control.
    His withdrawal was an attempt to make himself less sensitive to those external events, and admittedly, he failed

    There is a great lesson here for these times

    • Phil

      That is precisely why the US Founding Fathers put “the PURSUIT of happiness” in the famous Declaration.

      • doctorX

        that was a propaganda trick by wealthy Americans to get poor Americans on their side
        As soon as the revolution was over, they replaced “the PURSUIT of happiness” with property rights to make sure their wealth stays safe.
        The whole US history since than, is convincing ordinary people that property and happiness are the same things

        • Phil

          What a miserable blighter you are, was Montaigne right or not? Whose “official history of the Founding Fathers” are you relying on, Howard Zinn’s or Noam Chomsky’s?

          • doctorX

            I’m not reading anyone’s history

            Just comparing the key pre-revolutionary document – Declaration of Independence (not a word about property)

            We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

            and the key post-revolutionary document – US Constitution (not a word about happiness):

            (Amendment 5 – Rights of Persons) No person shall be … deprived of life, liberty, or property , without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

            (Amendment 14 – Rights Guaranteed: Privileges and Immunities of Citizenship, Due Process, and Equal Protection)
            1: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

            it’s not about me being a miserable blighter but rather about you being naive and living in a fairy tale

          • Phil

            The Founding Fathers were wise men whose deliberations have been extensively recorded and published. Your second-guessing is not supported by the record. The British Crown did uphold property rights, and this, at that time, was in contrast to cultures of universal serfdom to an absolute despot. But the Founding Fathers clearly meant to argue that it was depriving the Colonials of “the pursuit of happiness” by giving them no voice in their own governance.

            They clearly did not intend anything like Karl Marx did, the abolition of property rights as part of their revolutionary goals; or a reversion to universal serfdom to the State as existed in alternative, non-British governance arrangements in their time. Their choice of remaining silent about property at that time, proves nothing of the radical “intentions” you seem to assume.

            The pursuit of happiness is a different kind of “right” to property rights. Someone’s pursuit of happiness might not involve property at all. Guaranteeing “property for everyone” would be a completely different thing to guaranteeing the ability to pursue happiness. “Property rights” is a completely different thing to either “guaranteeing everyone property” or the socialization of all of it. Property rights already existed under the British Crown in a way that they did not exist at all in some cultures. The Constitution merely stated that property rights were going to be a feature of the new Federation too, as opposed to universal serfdom to The State. Aspiration to property ownership was a “given”, which was well ahead of the norm for humanity at the time.

          • doctorX

            the key question here is why pursuit of happiness (whatever it meant) got removed from basic human rights in US constitution
            so if Founding fathers were anything more than self-interested bunch of local elite why would they remove pursuit of happiness from US constitution? They were fine to not only keep but uphold slavery both legally and personally instead.

            Also democracy was quite low on their list of priorities, While getting quickly rich in post revolutionary years they didn’t pay much attention to democracy; George Washington was elected by 1% of votes of USA residents excluding Indians which is not much higher than % of nobility in England (In the mid-eighteenth century, British gentry numbered more than 20,000 out of around 6-7 million population). The system they crated was a presidential with president having more power than British kings. They shuffled government posts and positions among themselves and made laws that benefited them personally via bailouts and bankruptcy laws. It took decades and all of them to die before US became something that could even be called democracy (Andrew Jackson being the first president not being member of the original billionaire list)

            After the revolution Founding fathers became “USA Billionaire rich list” of late 18th century plus some “think-tank thinkers”. They were the top 0.1%, owning more than half of all private property in USA after the revolution. Their personal fortunes were enormous, e.g. John Hancock wealth was 0.13% of USA GDP, George Washington’s estate of $0.8m was equivalent to 0.25% of USA GDP at the time (equivalent to $50b today), but he was not nearly as rich as some other founding fathers. As an example of this wealth it’s enough to mention that Robert Morris, James Greenleaf and John Nicholson took 12 million loan to buy 6 million of acres of land in Washington DC and some other states (equivalent to 3% of USA GDP at the time – that would be equivalent to $600 billion personal loan today).

            to be fair there were few of them like Thomas Paine or even Thomas Jefferson who initially truly believed in at the time new and popular ideas of equality, freedom etc. The most amazing thing about most of founding fathers was hypocrisy – ability to talk about one thing and do the opposite.

          • doctorX

            BTW. your attempt to explain what they meant to say with “pursuit of happiness” and “property rights” reminds me of those who go into lengths to interpret what writers of Bible wanted to say.
            If they wanted to say that they would have said it

        • Arthur Schopenhauer

          They have done a pretty good job of providing prosperity and wealth. And have held the torch of liberty, over the past 500 years.

          No other system of government has been as transparent. We see it as ugly, because it is so transparent.

          In an agrarian society like the US was until WW1, property rights (the right to own & farm your own land) is the difference between liberty and serfdom.

          In a tyranny, confiscation of wealth (land), is confiscation of power. It was used by Charles 1 to remove threats, and it is used today.

          Maybe Swiss cantons are more democratic, but they are not as open or transparent.

        • ColMEMBER

          I remember when I was in my 20’s and used to think like you. Let me give you a hint. It doesn’t help.

      • Jake Gittes

        ‘the PURSUIT of happiness” in the declaration is an explicit rebuke of tyranny as practised by Charles 1 and as the Americans saw it, with justification, by George III. That is the extent of its meaning.

  16. Phil

    One nation not represented on that graph of Coronavirus deaths: Russia

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/30/coronavirus-russia-closes-border-with-china-to-prevent-spread.html

    Date: January 30……

    One death to date.

    https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/21/coronavirus-in-russia-the-latest-news-march-21-a69117

    They’re having to close their borders to “everywhere else” now because no-one else closed their borders to China before the end of January.

    Wondering what those Russkies KNEW before anyone else….

    EDIT: Damn moderation, no-one will even see this comment now, what a waste of time

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      Russia share a very long border with China. They definitely don’t want millions of Chinese swarming into Russia to escape the pandemic.

    • TrooDoh

      Talked to a friend in Moscow. No lock down yet.

      There have been claims in Western media that Russia is underreporting coronavirus cases. But who really knows.

  18. Bat Eater

    Another 800 dead in Italy.

    Makes you wonder what the real death toll was in Wuhan when 5 million people fled and 60 million were placed under martial law.

    Must have been a blood bath.

    These numbers from Europe make a mockery of the hideous CCP regime’s numbers.

    Obviously the numbers were a joke at the time.

    When Wuhan was locked down on January 23rd China had 25 deaths and 771 cases.

    You don’t put 60 million people under martial law and kill an economy because of 25 deaths.

    • Janet

      It’s all gone quiet on the Uighur front as well. Did they get counted in the stats? I guess we’ll never know. It took us, what, 20 years to get to know about the mass starvation of the 70′(?) that knocked of 15 million-plus)

      • Bat Eater

        I think it’s 800 deaths outside Hubei which is inconceivable when you consider 5 million people fled Wuhan before being quarantined. 4% death rate so that’s 20k cases outside Hubei. There would have easily been 20k cases just from 5 million that escaped Wuhan.

        The virus had escaped the Wuhan wildlife wet market 7-8 weeks before the Wuhan quarantine. Cases double every 3 days, but probably quicker in China due to constant spitting, public nose picking, never washing hands and general unsanitary conditions.

        In those 7-8 weeks people travelling from Wuhan to all parts of the country by plane or train. You can do the doubling every 3 days maths in your head it would have been a conservative 150k cases by the time of the Wuhan lockdown.

    • Star Trek

      Moveover the virus hardly affected China outside of Hubei province. It made no sense back then and even less now.

    • doctorX

      that’s the key difference:
      Italy waited number of cases to reach 5000 before locking down 17 million people in the north
      if they did it at levels close to 771 total number of deaths would have been much lower

    • GramusMEMBER

      Yep, the Chinese lied and the world stupidly didn’t isolate the whole country immediately. Now we cop the reality…

    • fishMEMBER

      I think that the 8 million mobile users that have disappeared off the network is probably a closer indication of the true death rate in China
      China has a lot to answer for, the CCP has screwed the world.
      I think that a push to nationalize, with no compensation, everything owned by a Chinese company in Australia would be a good start.

      • reusachtigeMEMBER

        8 million phone users gone? You making sh1t up bloke? Link or it didn’t happen.

        And if it has happened it’s probably because people have lost their jobs and can’t pay their phone bill anymore. Way more plausible.

      • Fishing72

        Chinese warships would be on their way here immediately upon China hearing of this plan

        • happy valleyMEMBER

          They’re probably on their way anyway, as they know that Straya will implode within weeks so they may as well be offshore ready to take control then?

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      Prior to Wuhan shutdown, Beijing sent their SARS expert Zhong Nanshan to investigate the situation as they have lost faith in the Wuhan government’s reporting. What he saw is nobody wearing face masks and people are not self isolating at all. Like the HK researcher who fled Wuhan, Zhong concluded that the entire province is FUBAR. The shutdown order came that night.

      Similarly, Sydney right now is FUBAR, however our Chief Medical Officer is someone who believe the best solution is to get everyone infected and let 400k Australians dies.

  19. chgsyd

    Given the similar trajectory that it seems we are following with Italy, I began to wonder what will kill more, Chinese Coronavirus or War?

    Aus has lost 101,000 young men and women to war since federation. What’s the consensus on a figure for this outbreak?

    • doctorX

      there is also a difference in “quality”
      people who are going to die now are not people going overseas trying to kill someone else

      • ColMEMBER

        With comments like that doctor x I can only assume you have some kind of cabin fever and you not thinking right. Go do some exercise and you will feel better.

        • doctorX

          So what is wrong with my comment?
          People going into war are fully aware and reponsible for the death.
          Saying that an person with asthma dying from coronavirus is same as a soldier sent to die in Gallipoli (or any other battle including wwii) is offensive to an asthma person.

          • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

            The bit you miss is not everyone who went to war wanted to be there.

            Many who wanted to be there were defending their country in good faith.

            Your comment is exceedingly ordinary. Admit it and move on.

    • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

      104000 minimum. We’re going to minimum 40% of the population with minimum 1% dying.

      Then consider 18% need hospitalization and ventilators to keep fatalities down to 1%, and it’s easy to see our idiot government is way under prepared and our death rates will be far higher than anywhere else so far.

      All made worse by not closing borders 7 weeks ago. All made worse by keeping schools open (while his kids are at home and moved to Canberra). All made worse by not accessing necessary equipment early. All made worse by decimating all our manufacturing. All made worse by listening to vested interests and bringing people in via third world countries.

      Morrison will not be PM in 3 months.

        • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

          No. Hopefully whoever put it up the other day posts it.

          I’ll spend some time on a PC tomorrow looking for the original post.

          • ZuluMEMBER

            ScoMo confirmed it himself, I’d say, during questions today with, “the health of my children is not something I’ll comment on” (or somehing like that, “but we are following the governments instructions” … so they are home “sick” is the only way I read that

    • darklydrawlMEMBER

      Agree. We live on a quiet suburban street, but we have a local footy oval up the road so it’s usually busier on the weekend with kids sport / auskick on early and other games as the day goes on. Plenty of cars coming and going as the teams change over. Nothing but crickets this morning (and yesterday too). Literally not a single vehicle moving.

  21. Jim Sady

    We had to drop by Indooroopilly yesterday the quietest we have ever seen it. We know several people with businesses that will go under

    Will the 250k guarantee hold? We have boatloads looking to deploy in the next year and want return of my money not return on my money

    • Janet

      If the $250k ever has to be called, it’s “Game Over’ already. The Depositor Guarantee is pretty much a psychological ploy.
      Banks will be nationality if necessary before any of the Big 4 fails. We might all get that long sort after account with the RBA after all!

    • DingwallMEMBER

      The missus went to Indro just know… she was surprised at how many people were dragging their kids around and the numbers at coffee shops etc. A lot of people still thinking this has not hit us as yet or thinking they are bulletproof

  22. skippy

    1. Here’s a list of what’s been floated, either publicly or privately, for the #CoronavirusCoup. I am told that Pelosi will take whatever McConnell negotiates in the Senate on the corporate side. $50 billion for airlines. $150 billion for anyone Mnuchin wants, likely Boeing.
    2. Speeding up of payments to defense contractors. Lifting of Other Transaction Authority caps for the Pentagon to shovel money to defense contractors without restrictions. Transdigm likes to use this one. washingtonpost.com/business/2019/…

    3. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezo want “$5 billion in grants or loans to keep commercial space company employees on the job and launch facilities open.” They also want the IRS to give them cash for R&D tax credits.

    4. “The hotel industry wants $150 billion. The restaurant industry wants $145 billion. The National Association of Manufacturers wants $1.4 trillion. The International Council of Shopping Centers wants a guarantee of up to $1 trillion.” Congress is working on a massive coronavirus relief package — it might not be enough for businesses

    “The bailout requests are mind-boggling,” said Dennis Kelleher, chief executive of advocacy group Better Markets. “And it’s going to be a matter of whose going to win and who’s going to lose.”
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/21/coronavirus-1-trillion-rescue-package-might-not-be-enough-for-businesses.html

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1241446035190358018.html

    Yiiipppeee the bush kangaroo …

    • Hill Billy 55

      One thing Adam Smith got correct is that capitalism and self interest are mutually inclusive. He was wrong that capitalists would allow a properly functioning government to oversee their activities.

      • skippy

        I think his thoughts on ***business men*** colluding fits that perspective.

        That’s why Libertarians could never[????] figure out Business was always happy with government, if they were getting their way, hence anti democratic.

  23. Hill Billy 55

    Well I guess Italy has proven that it is not just a Chinese disease or a CIA conspiracy.

    I am reminded of Churchill’s thoughts, democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others.

    • skippy

      Neoliberalism was always anti democratic, its in its DNA – Pay to Play democracy for vested interests and spectator for the unwashed.

    • DivyaMEMBER

      Italy has proven that if you dont shut the door to China early enough, you end up inheriting their problems for the great destruction of your own citizens.

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      Well under the circumstances sh1tty people do need to be locked up as soon as they are identified. We are all in this together and don’t need the scum making things worse. And looking after corporates means looking after jobs. I cannot see a single problem with this. You really are a sick commie!

  25. boomengineeringMEMBER

    Gavin,
    Thanks for yesterdays explanation of difference between flu and Corona.

    • GavinMEMBER

      No problem. I tried to share what I think people should be reading. The more I learn about our situation the more worried I am. I was initially thinking it’s just the flu also. But now I’m more educated I understand the concerns a lot more. I’ve been telling my family to take this more seriously also.

      This looks to be getting a lot worse before it gets better.

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        I actually started off telling people it was different and watch out for mutations similar to your post attachment but then deviated to thinking about it being exploited and had overly concentrated on that.
        So thanks for putting me back on track.

    • darklydrawlMEMBER

      That seem probable. I was saying yesterday that this should (finally) change our Grubbermint’s shtfckery attitude to the unemployed as they cannot set up a system where the ‘new/good’ unemployed get a decent deal and minimal conditions for payment, and the ‘bad/ legacy’ welfare recipients are left on $40 a day and harsh caveats.

      • reusachtigeMEMBER

        The bad unemployed really are a burden. I wonder if their decadent ways leave them more prone to this virus.

      • Jacob

        ‘new/good’ unemployed get a decent deal and minimal conditions for payment, and the ‘bad/ legacy’ welfare recipients are left on $40 a day and harsh caveats.

        Yep. Good unemployed and bad unemployed.

        UBI is redistribution in the end. A system that could protect all of us from birth to death. No welfare cards. No ten million forms. None of that. Just an ongoing payment your entire life, tied to CPI, resistant to political fu—-y.
        We should absolutely do it. There should be no such thing as unemployment benefits and the horrorshow of degradation that is our current system.
        And remember – almost everyone is better off. Unless you’re on a gold toilet right now with your three-thousand rolls of TP, you’re likely to be better off.

        https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/flq58q/how_a_universal_basic_income_could_help_25/fl03ikn/

    • GavinMEMBER

      Speaking personally when I saw them raise Newstart and the amounts per fortnight. I suddenly thought I could apply for Newstart allowance as an unemployed person and survive (inc. paying my mortgage) the next 6-12 months.

      Then I thought if I don’t have to worry about money I can perhaps use my skills to start researching how to make ventilators and parts for them via 3D Printing. For some reason when I saw a Government care or St least set something up to carry us through, I wanted to find a way to help using my skills and knowledge.

      Maybe society will be better after this? Maybe the world will see how we can all co-operate to help each other and tackle the other big issues we have like climate change? I can only hope.

  27. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    Got me 2 slices or reheated pizza with a side of Baked beans and a coffee on the ready to watch The Insiders this morning.
    Should be a doozy of an episode.

    Wonder if the twitter attacks on Patricia Karvelas for sticking up for #ScottyFromMarketing “not isolating his kids at home” will come up?

    Maybe she is trolling for the Prime Ministerial interviews now Leigh Sales has been black balled.

    https://twitter.com/motorcymick/status/1241439026642444289?s=20

  28. JohnRMEMBER

    Great links, Gunna. We’ll probably have to nominate you for a gong after this is all through.

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          Just what I told the missus because they were all over the NBs besides Manly so they must have driven. Manly wasn’t particularly busy indicating the usual Western Suburbs ferry influx.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Protect yourself Boom.
      Big, fit, tall, manly bastard that you are brother, this virus is nasty for the over 60s.
      Are you maintaining your 1.5m distance in the lineup when surfing?

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        Thanks Ermo, yup keeping the distance especially from my mates grommet son.
        He used a nasty tactic this morn, sat on me the whole way then 1klm from the top of MCarrs got along side and started coughing which made me keep my distance behind. Blew him away on Forrest Way though.
        Btw I consider myself too fit to die from CV but what scares me is permanent lung scaring
        Please tell me you are sticking to your new lifestyle.

  31. PalimpsestMEMBER

    There is a claim there is early evidence of community transmission in Australia. I am surprised. That would be a person that has not arrived from overseas recently or been in recent contact with a known confirmed case. Which, of course, is the criteria for rejecting eligibility for a test. If people catching COVID-19 by community transmission are the very people excluded from testing, there really should be NO evidence for community transmission.

    • Vector

      Unless they become seriously ill or dead. Refer to the nursing home deaths a week or two ago.

      Edit: Or unless you are celeb, poli or Richard Wilkins.

  32. BigDuke6MEMBER

    I’m thinking a lot of after all of this. I’m assuming I’ll make it although I’ll undoubtedly get it. I’m hoping for a new attitude in this country. What will help? Shutting down domain? A barter system?
    A return to the prominence of the best weed in the world – Aussie bushbuds. They may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one

  33. Jim Sady

    I hope that no one is allowed to access super early and then get on the public teat afterwards with me pension

    • Janet

      What other choice is there? Let someone with $X in the super, starve if they have lost their job and die with that amount still hanging?
      Sure, they’ll be an abuse of The System ( that’s’ human nature, sadly) but denying the needy, their own funds when they need it, isn’t going to alleviate that.

    • ITAgMEMBER

      I am sure the same suspects who rorted VocEd, Child care, Pink Bats are currently working on how to maximise their returns. By pushing the money through business, rather than direct to consumers, the opportunities for sidelining some surplus are greater and bang for your buck from Gov spending is reduced – perhaps that is the plan 🙁

      Anyway, I am sure our elites are watching the USA teat suckers lineup for their dose of socialism.

    • MountainGuinMEMBER

      Scomo just announced early superannuation rules and allowing higher withdrawal rates. Early access is based on 20 percent income hit from corona so that seems like a pretty open and easy threshold.
      I wonder if those losing jobs and hours from slowing building sector can claim a corona hit…?

    • DavidMEMBER

      Another nail in the coffin of the Australian sharemarket. Instead of people salary sacrificing into super to boost the market, superfunds will be liquidating share holdings to pay out cash to them.

  35. NikoMEMBER

    just received sms from one of the two places I was getting my haircut from telling me their exceed all recommended guidelines to ensure my safety.. see you soon – at the end.
    Yesterday I passed both of the shops which are basically opposite from each other and did not see anything different in their set up.
    when guidelines don’t require you to change much I guess it is not easy to exceed them.
    and who is enforcing these guidelines which I think are just marketing from Scumo.. local coffee shops in the shopping mall still have their tables right next to each other and punters rubbing shoulders.. I saw it with my own eyes yesterday.

    • Freddy

      Standard ‘we got this’ western government destroying everyone and everything by attempting to save their economy. No need to stop tourism, no need to stop sporting events, no need to close schools, no need to close cafes and restaurants, no need to go full Wuhan.

      • NikoMEMBER

        “..no need to go full Wuhan.” – Scumo wants us to go full Wuhan – pre-quarantine period. Nothing will make him happier.

  39. chino

    Bailing out small businesses or bailing out over leveraged property investors?

    https://iview.abc.net.au/show/abc-news-nsw

    Listen from the 7min mark for 20March

    “Rody Georges has a $1.9m mortgage covering his cafe and his 2 homes and only enough money to stay open for 6 weeks”

    Why doesn’t he sell one of his 2 homes?

      • Janet

        No, it isn’t!
        Where do we think the $66 billion, and the $3 trillion and the untold other trillions is going to go? Into propping up assets – The Stock Markets and Property markets until such time as all those that have sense have exited, leaving the debts on the Public Balance Sheet. It may not even THE Public Balance Sheets, but the Balance Sheets of your friendly Super Fund etc, as they buy up shares and assets at ‘bargain prices’ and pass the eventual debt on to their members via lower payouts.
        No. Mark my words. One last gasp of The System is being produced right now; to let ‘them that can’ escape. It’s like Stock Buy-Backs. Who benefited Those who wanted to palm their holding off onto assorted Public Balance Sheets.

        • matthewMEMBER

          I take your point.But this is a medical problem with economic consequence something that they didn’t have a chapter on in your economic textbook.They are going to try the usual methods of rescuing the system but what if this lasts 2years?.What if we go in and out of lockdown during this period of time?Will there be any transacting of houses if such is the case?And referring to the example above how much longer until lockdown?How long does it take to get a house to market and sold?What if something unforseen happens in credit markets and banks stop lending?What if the stock market falls another 20percent next week resulting in some sort of credit event.We will see

          • nyleta

            Yes, you only have to look at the timeline on the interventions to see that their expert advice is 3 years to dig out. We will be lucky if we get away with a collapse like that of the USSR……..end of the Anglo-Saxon Empire if they don’t pick up their game very quickly.

    • NikoMEMBER

      “Why doesn’t he sell one of his 2 homes?” – he doesn’t want to give it away which means selling $400k above its fair value. Hope he wait until he is forced to sell it at fair value.

    • Kelly Chen

      Why should banks give “mortgage holidays” to speculators? They should call IP loans in ASAP while there are still suckers in the market willing to pay bubble prices.

    • ComingMEMBER

      If you owe the bank $1.9 million , you have a problem
      If youse owe the bank $2.34trillion, they have a problem

        • bjw678

          True, If you are gonna have your house burn down without insurance, prey it’s in the middle of widespread bushfires. Otherwise you’re on your own.

    • buttzilla seventeen

      correct, it’s only a bailout for those that can. It’s 1/10th of needed stimulus ($1T). It’s the same everywhere, e.g. US needs $10T, getting $1T.

  42. NikoMEMBER

    reading this prompted me to think how things may develop in US and Europe if law and order collapses. Below are my views starting with US:
    watch how quickly society will collapse in US as police loses 50% of its force due to the virus.
    Doubt the Army will be in any better shape.. those 1d1ots sent 30k solders to EU last week without masks and protective gear and had to pull them out due to multiple infections.
    Mass looting of shops and semi-rich families who can’t afford bunkers and private armies. Only super rich will survive. Even some of them will be wiped out by their own security who also think they are just fckn rich people.

    While in Europe:
    There is a chance for the unwashed masses there to bring the system down and force new system that will eliminate inequality. I don’t think Europe will have same experience US will.
    UK (and some other EU countries) will cut the leaches (royals) off the pubic tit.

    https://twitter.com/Fxhedgers/status/1241517002159620098

    • Janet

      “bring the system down and force a new system that will eliminate inequality”
      Never happens, even in France or, more recently, Cuba.
      There’s always a group of insiders who do better than everyone else. “We are all equal, except some are more equal than others” etc.

      • Simon

        Correct Janet.
        All systems are ultimately corrupted; the one that resists the longest without sacrificing liberties is the one for me.

        • ZuluMEMBER

          Correct! This is why I’m interested in direct democracy parties like Flux, thereby should be more resistant than most systems tell one interest group taking control

    • Popcod

      Yeah I think we could be at risk of going a bit Mad Max for a while. I have no idea how it will all turn out. THe only thing I can think about for Europe is all the refugees in the ME who will be more likely to head north this summer before next winter. They may think that where will be a lot of vacant houses they can just waltz right into if someone starts the right disinfo campaign. Interesting times. I fully expect Greece to be shooting people with live rounds to stop that tsunami at some stage soon.

    • LSWCHPMEMBER

      Anybody who triea to attack my bunker will be met with a very fvcking robust response.

    • doctorX

      how on earth you think 50% of police force and military will be gone due to virus?
      have you heard about 80% having no or very little symptoms?

      this is not black death, very small percentage of people will die even in the worst case scenarios even assuming health care system fails completely

      • NikoMEMBER

        “how on earth you think 50% of police force and military will be gone due to virus?” – have you heard viruses mutate? Have you considered that we might be just one mutation away from disaster?
        On more serious note, I am not expecting to see large scale riots under current conditions but if things turn to worse and virus mutates into more deadly form and we struggle to find a cure then yes what I am proposing is on the cards.

        “have you heard about 80% having no or very little symptoms?” – Yes. I should have explained that I am describing worse case scenario in an event virus may mutates into more deadly form. I thought people would have assumed this but perhaps I should have be more clear. I apologise for not being clear.

        But localised riots in some parts of the world are still on the cards. Especially in the US where current system is to let you rot on the street if you don’t have money. MSM keep talking about Iran being in danger of civil unrest due to their inability to control the virus but let’s see how US will cope in 3-4 weeks time.

        • bjw678

          “Have you considered that we might be just one mutation away from disaster?”
          It has always been so. Just been brouhgt into peoples attention now.

          • GavinMEMBER

            +1 this is what worries me, mutation and a more extreme killer virus. It’s happened before with the black plague.

  43. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    My 12-year-old daughter is going stir crazy being isolated at home and and is pleading and hounding
    us for play dates and visits to her friend’s houses.
    After only being isolated since Wednesday she thinks it’s the end of the world!
    Think I’m going to go up to Officeworks and buy a Kindle for her and download a copy of, The diary of Anne Frank for her to read.

    • JohnRMEMBER

      um…Great Big jigsaw puzzle
      baking
      crafts
      My wife used to invent the backyard olympics, all sorts of made up games to keep them active with chocolate medals.
      reading of course
      my son is at the kitchen table here shouting at a Ludo game he is playing online…there are quite a few with social interaction. Chess is another.
      Lots of wonderful content on YT
      Gardening, particularly veges
      Invent a research project and make her write a project, so a bit of reading and writing, and crafts for the pictures, or a model etc.
      Sh!tposting on MB…maybe she is a bit young for that.
      Build and decorate a gingerbread house.

    • haroldusMEMBER

      “Only boring people are bored”.
      Clean your room.
      Homework.
      Chardonnay and Coopers Green.

      OK maybe not the homework.

    • C3POMEMBER

      One of our kid’s teachers suggested our kids keep a diary because in generations to come this will be one of those times in history when this generation will be asked what was it like. One of our kids has really got into it and has started researching a lot about the virus, other countries, etc.
      Draughts has been a great game they have all learnt this week and the youngest built a droughts game using LEGO which they play on.

    • footsore

      If you haven’t already shown your kids every Tony Benn clip on YouTube it could be a great family bonding exercise.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Ha Ha,…yeah nah.
        Already had many TV remote battles with them.
        Dad’s lost most of them.
        😕

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      I’ve just offloaded them to the in-law’s holiday place down the beach. Used the excuse of maybe being quarantined because someone at work getting it. They were quite upset when they left.

      I was in my underwear before the car was out of the driveway.

  44. Totes BeWokeMEMBER

    Jim Chalmers on Insiders.

    Man, Australia dodged a bullet.

    Labor are like a completely incompetent, soft, naive pack of 12 year old kids.

    It’s hard to imagine a response to Coronavirus worse than Morrison’s but Labor would have managed it.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Is that what ya really reckon Totes or are you just going through your IPA issued list of Social media talking points,…mmm?

      • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

        That’s exactly what I really think.

        I’ve got nothing to do with ipa. I’ve been a union member in differing unions my entire 40 year career. Even been a delegate.

        Modern Labor are the worst thing to happen to Australia. Particularly Australian workers.

        You need to open your eyes. You literally don’t have an argument to defend inner city elite Labor. They’re a disgrace.

        You think my views are unique? Mate, Labor lost to LNP who the entire country despises. Go and ask Australian workers what they think of Labor.

        If you think I’ve got anything to do with IPA, I doubt you’ve absorbed a single thing I’ve said.

        • ChristopherJ

          well said, Totes. Labor were paying 1.20 to win and lost an unloseable election. Sure, the media creamed them, but every time they’ve got into power in my entire working life, they have looked after their donors and mates to the detriment of working Australians.

    • Kelly Chen

      Conversely, if NG was removed, the bubble in mel and syd wouldn’t have reinflated. The suckers who bought in the past 12 months will be decimated and they can thank the LNP.

      • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

        LNP are only in power because Labor are so unelectable. Australia hates both of them but Australia trusts Labor even less than they trust LNP.

        Hardly anyone cares about NG. Everyone cares about losing our country via LNP and Labor policy.

    • PeachyMEMBER

      “I’m a big Australia guy.” This is a direct quote. straight from the horse’s (Jim’s) mouth.
      Enough said.

  45. GunnamattaMEMBER

    People working in larger organisations, workplaces where lots of people – employees, clients, contractors – or anyone working with the Commonwealth or State public sectors

    Can you outline what workplace preventative measures have been

    1. exhorted from the top of your organisation
    2. adopted in your local workplaces

    I have been related 3 spectacular fails from the Commonwealth public service. This includes one worksite where the average age of the permanent staff is over 60, where they have to literally handle (and hand to one another) cardboard, where the seating arrangements are less than 1.5 metres, and where there is no organised and repeating cleaning of common surfaces, and (incredibly) one site where they have been putting up cardboard partitions between closely situated desks.

    I have had emails beamed to me last night indicating a circumstance where one workplace health and safety committee man (the first aid guy) sent an email to management 3 weeks ago, and was told to wait for a ‘Whole of government approach’ and where nothing had happened until yesterday. He spoke with his chief yesterday and agreed to whip up a roster of people to clean in his workplace, which he did. Then higher level management put the kybosh on any sort of organised roster and told his chief to countermand the local workplace initiative and do nothing but to tell people to wash their hands.

    I have beamed them to an ABC Journalist. He is getting in touch with some politicos to get a response.

    This issue is going to blow up I suspect.

    If anyone has similar things happening in their workplaces and wants someone to get them some sort of consideration can you beam the basic details to [email protected] (and not [email protected] as that is not me) and I will potentially pass them on.

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        Repied to your above post and will add that one or two beers a night wont hurt your new lifestyle if you burn the calories.

        Got off the bike to wait for ages for mate to catch up this morn, he uses all his fuel up on the main hill.

    • NikoMEMBER

      My wife is public servant (state level) and there is no direction.. they decided to take some measures on their own. Now her manageress is asking my wife to go to her place to show her how to do certain things.. This person has young kids going to school and I asked my wife if there is a way to teach her boss how to do her job via remote session. apparently not.. fck me, all this prepping for nothing.

      edit – I’ll check with my wife if she is willing to send you full details on what is going on..

    • bjw678

      I doubt many office environments put people more than 1.5 m apart.
      It’s all OK at my workplace though. Management have instigated wipe-down-wednesday.
      Quite literally wipe down surfaces once a week. We’ll be fine. lol.

  46. boomengineeringMEMBER

    Swampy,
    How’s the house inspections going?
    All the best and good luck.
    I have pulled her reins in a bit to ride things out so won’t be in you’re new neighborhood for a while.

    • C3POMEMBER

      Hey Boom – word here is that one of the school mums is positive. Kid not positive (yet) and is being kept away from school. Nothing the school can do or say. Glad we have bunkered down.

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        For C sake you’re in N Bal where my cycling mates live, and going to surf tomorrow morn with him and his young son.
        Crn Myrtle & Abingdon.
        Which school?

        • C3POMEMBER

          BNPS. We are already home schooling but suspect it will start to really empty out now. As with most of the state many of the teachers/staff aren’t spring chickens either.
          Not sure WTF the unions have been doing – they should have at least demanded temp checks daily in the early stages.

          • bolstroodMEMBER

            Unions not doing much.
            I have a young friend who is the Federation delegate at his school, this is what he sent me when I suggested the Union struck.

            ” Unions cannot strike according to the Industrial Relations legislation, and that the power and job security of teachers in NSW has never been so diminished or tenuous.

            As a Fed Rep I am an irrelevance in this situation and the Dept is wholesale ignoring the federations advice. It’s all about kids and as far as they say teachers that are exposed for auto-immune reasons or age just have to put up with it. We received a categorical email from Mark Scott today that ‘Schools are not unsafe for teachers’ amongst a lot of other patronising nonsense.

            Teachers can’t speak or be represented at all in this crisis. There are severe consequences for speaking in public. We are relying on parents to petition the government for us because we are the last lot of people they will consider or listen to.

            Sincerely an irrelevant and disempowered Federation Representative.”

          • GunnamattaMEMBER

            Anyone talking about strikes is simply playing the wrong game.

            Every workplace in Australia is covered by WHS or OHS legislation, every single one of those places primacy of determination of risks and steps to mitigate those risks at the local workplace. Get the local OHS/WHS delegate to run a PIN together (provisional improvement notice) for an identified workplace risk – we have the PM now telling us it is a pandemic.

            Coronavirus is an identified risk, every workplace should already have adopted local workplace mitigation strategies. The effectiveness of those strategies should be being monitored every day. If managements dont want to address the risk then serve a PIN, if nothing happens to address the known risk then close the site. Every state and the Commonwealth protects the rights of Workplace Health and Safety delegates and committees.

            In the case of teachers (and I reckon schools should have been closed some time ago) the risk of children coming to school from having engaged in the local community is obvious. The risk to teachers and school administrative staff is obvious. Telling people to wash their hands regularly is all very good, but it is an infinitesimally small part of an effective workplace mitigation approach to address a known risk. This virus has a known period averaging 5 days where a person who has contracted the virus and is likely to be asymptomatic (simply not knowing they are a risk to others). Every workplace should be taking this into account. Thats well before we get into the propensity for all people (but certainly kids) to wipe their runny noses on sleeves, pick and flick, scratch their bums etc.

            Dont call it a strike – call it a workplace health and safety mitigation approach.

          • C3POMEMBER

            Thanks Gunna – what I don’t get is that what you say should be bread & butter (basic stuff) to the Unions. Therefore this has just shown to me they are no different to the major parties – they have completely sold out their constituents. Similar to politicians – to get into a position of power means you need to be a psychopath or at least a zealot which means normal, well meaning folk opt out. What a sad, sad place we have become.

        • ZuluMEMBER

          Same rumour about my kids school in St George area, from mum at another school, I suspect that’s all it is a rumour….

    • SwampyMEMBER

      Week 1 went well. Cracking weather, place looked
      Immaculate

      2 through (normal for regional/rural) but 2 last minute cancellations coming next week

      1 couple appear super keen – another for horses but needs to sell first.

      Let me know when you’re up – we’ll go for a spin ? Haven’t surfed since the eldest was born 4.5y ago as it got real sharky north coast and I lost interest. Bike or golf

  47. GunnamattaMEMBER

    I’ve spotted a twitter thread which may have some hand practical Covid19 (Coronavirus) treatment approaches – for doctors

    Any doctors in our midst who may care to comment – go for your life

    and some links to studies and treatment plans

    Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19: results of an open-label non-randomized clinical trial
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/186Bel9RqfsmEx55FDum4xY_IlWSHnGbj/view

    Handbook of Covid-19 Prevention and Treatment Compiled according to clinical experience – downloadable book from the Jack Ma world
    https://covid-19.alibabacloud.com

    UW Medicine COVID-19 Resource Site – University of Washington
    https://covid-19.uwmedicine.org/Pages/default.aspx

    • Janet

      A report in Nigeria claims that anti-malaria drug chloroquine has cured 12,552 novel coronavirus patients. This is misleading; the China National Center for Biotechnology Development confirmed the drug has “a certain curative effect on the novel coronavirus”, but did not say it cured 12,552 patients. The drug has only been used in clinical trials with “over 100 patients”.

      https://factcheck.afp.com/anti-malaria-drug-has-proven-effective-treating-coronavirus-has-not-cured-12552-patients
      So, who knows!
      “Nigeria reports chloroquine poisonings after Donald Trump touts antimalarial drug as treatment”

    • BoomToBustMEMBER

      So far there is no cure for Covid-19 (virus), there is a substance I take to control Crohns called DMSO (liquid) with its non liquid form called MSM. Research has been done many years ago showing DMSO assists reduce viral loads. While it may not cure you, it might be enough to make the difference between living and dying. DMSO is an very powerful substance, one of the only substances that can be used topically (applied to skin), ingested or used via IV. Fear mongers say it is dangerous. But I counter that with 2 arguements, 1) I have taken significant amounts orally and on my skin and i’m not dead in injured, quite the contrary 2) It is used to store organs for transport – cant be that bad !!
      https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=dmso+and+viral+infections

      • Frostilicus

        Oh DMSO… Yeah, that stuff will make you reek of garlic something fierce! Apply to the skin and your breath will smell of garlic like you wouldn’t believe.

        Otherwise, good stuff, large animal vets use it a bit.

      • adelaide_economistMEMBER

        I have no idea what MSM does for corona but I am a long time believer in its ability to ward off general ‘cold and flu’ when it starts to hit. I think the sulphur part of the name makes people think of rotten eggs despite being an odourless white crystal.

    • matthewMEMBER

      Look the best things you can really do are look after yourself physically and emotionally.If you have a bit of extra weight on board loose it.Do a bit of meditation.Eat properly .Don’t drink to much booze(a little might be helpfull).Do a bit of exercise(but not to much)Give up the cigs if your on them.Dont do stupid shit and get injured during this period..Maybe vitamin D and if you get sick elderberry and paracetamol.Avoid hospital at all cost unless you are really sick.As for the other stuff they are talking about it’s clutching at straws and hoping for the best

    • adelaide_economistMEMBER

      It’s interesting watching the reaction as stories come out about certain supplements.

      First the malaria story came out and then every bottle of tonic water disappeared from every supermarket in the country. Local sources and international for most supplements linked to either lung health or resisting viruses have also been completely cleaned out – good luck sourcing almost any source of vitamin A, C or D at the moment. Obviously paracetamol gone and ibuprofen disappeared before the stories saying the latter shouldn’t be used.

      Most recently I noticed that turmeric (curcumin) is suddenly disappearing and I suspect it’s a combo of being seen as a ‘natural’ version of certain anti-virals and maybe some are linking it with the supposed resistance of Indians to the bug. The latter of course, much as in Australia, could as much be an issue of testing capacity rather than any true indication of infection rates. Still, when you have such grossly incompetent leadership at the Federal level it’s understandable people are grabbing at anything that offers hope. I’m doing the same myself.

      • SwampyMEMBER

        We grabbed Vit D a few weeks ago when I ready about the Vitamin D hammer.
        Grabbing Selenium today.

        We grow Turmeric and I’ve been putting it fresh on everything, and in Rooibos.

        Anti inflam anyway.

  50. StomperMEMBER

    I’m poised to discuss my rental arrangements with my “landlord” – looking for a 50% reduction. We’re off lease so easy to walk away.
    I’m surely not alone…….

    • innocent bystanderMEMBER

      will follow with interest.
      but suspect it is too early for that strategy.
      asking rents around me haven’t dropped, gone up if anything.
      don’t think landlords are getting any help from govt?

    • bjw678

      Might want to check up on new rental prospects before pulling that trigger. If tighter lockdowns are instigated you could end up living in a motel because REA aren’t open any longer for new rentals.

    • adelaide_economistMEMBER

      As long as you’ve thought through how you will manage cleaners and removalists in the current environment if you need them – both your own health as well as their willingness to turn up – why not? I suspect many landlords will be awaiting stimulus announcement #3 and #4 which they imagine will absolve them of having to respond to market implosion.

    • BoomToBustMEMBER

      Not sure we are quite at that stage yet, we are looking at the same thing ourselves. We are waiting until we can guarantee we can move some where else with much cheaper rent that meets our needs. Once we have the upper hand we will go for it, until then we are sitting tight.

  51. haroldusMEMBER

    This is for Ginger. My wedding joke. I had lined up my mate to say “what soup” but he was distracted by his son at the critical moment.

    “Ladies and germs thanks for coming to celebrate etc etc blah blah blah.”

    “The thing I’m really looking forward to is the clear soup” (mate fails to say “what clear soup?”)

    Harry forges on – “Don’t you get consommé when you get married?”

    One solitary laugh, up the back of the room. Crickets.

    “Thank you and have a great night”

    • csfnMEMBER

      I hope you’re going to share more about your wedding. In particular the punch on action and resulting consequences for family relations.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        I love that squawking noise the older Sheila family members make when the middle aged and Boomer “Boys” of the family start punching on at weddings.

        (Note I have Ukrainian extended family)

      • haroldusMEMBER

        It’s still a bit raw, even after more than a decade.

        I need to find a way to think about it, so I can tell the story.

        It is everyone’s fault I guess, but has broken things forever.

        But that is not necessarily a bad thing.

        Which makes it all complicated.

    • GingerMEMBER

      Thank you haroldus, I love that story! And I needed a lift, hence the request. Things are so fvcked in my world atm. Cheers.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        My mind’s eye can see me giggling to myself as I wrote the speech, and the joke.

        I was so sure it was going to crack the room up!

        I think what went wrong was that maybe not everyone these days knows about the idea of consummating a wedding/marriage, and definitely not everyone knows about consomme.

        Best wishes to you, and I hope you are OK. I fully can relate to bad thoughts.

  52. Fishing72

    Who’s got that twitter link which showed the vybrants stockpiling food around the corner from the register at the supermarket whilst the fella filming is saying that they ought to be ashamed of themselves ?

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Fake news. It was from a couple of years ago when the baby formula was at its peak.

    • AaronMEMBER

      Found on Facebook (treat with due suspicion). Op Kevin Goldsworthy. All those products smurfed by Daigou have to end up somewhere I guess
      °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

      **** EVERYBODY MUST READ ****

      This is not second hand news or something that was heard from someone else!! This is first hand news straight from myself to u!!

      So today on my journey around our great city of Melbourne picking up exports and imports delivering them all off to where they need to go. I got sent a job, a pick up for export at a small factory in footscray/yarraville area.

      Company details:
      TT EXPRESS
      Factory 35/131 Hyde Street, Footscray

      When i got there i could not believe my eyes the hole factory is full with our food!! THATS RIGHT PEOPLE!! All the rumours u may have heard about Chinese people buying up all our stock from super markets well its not a rumour!! Its TRUE…… The hole joint was full of repacked boxes of BABY FORMULA, TOILET PAPER, PALLETS OF HAND SANITIZER, TISSUES, FEMININE HYGIENE PRODUCTS and thats just a start!! They had everything from cleaning products to food pasta, rice, tinned goods, pet food even medicine and boxes of paracetamol/panadol!! When i asked the asian guy told me they have been packing 2 shipping containers full everyday and sending it all back to China!! And the company responsible for shipping it all is a company called
      Freight Net
      factory 9c international square
      in tullamarine.
      Share the sh– out of this people get the word out there this kind of thing needs to stop!!

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Pffft!,…ya can get Rhino tongue from Eastwood ,Chatswood and Chinatown!
        I kinda think the 50 dog foreskins would be the hardest item to come by.

        • LSWCHPMEMBER

          You won’t find me coming near 50 dog foreskins. Vomiting maybe, but not the other.

  56. robert2013MEMBER

    Please MBers, stop using ‘dog’ instead of God. I know where it comes from, and it is so insulting. Most people believe in God, in one form or another. If you don’t stop I will start replying to every post featuring the word dog instead of God, asking very politely for you to stop.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      “I know where it comes from, and it is so insulting”

      I don’t know where it comes from.
      Where does it come from?
      Please let me in on “The Secret”

      • robert2013MEMBER

        It comes from an email that was doing the rounds several years ago. A kind of atheist parable intended to illustrate that God is a useless concept and you could substitute dog and for god and get just as much sense it out of it. I can’t find the original anymore but I’m sure someone here knows of it. The email was theologically and philosophically infantile and proved nothing to anyone not already an atheist. For the record, I’m not a true believer in any mainstream religion but I think God is real, but chances are I don’t think about God the way you do. I am in good company. My God is Anthony Flew’s kind of God, or perhaps Einstein’s. So sure, dog is a bit of fun for while, but when it goes on and on like this, it is just insulting and indicates closed minds. A bit like the progressives who can’t accept that anyone else might have a rational point of view, even though their arguments frequently rest on assumptions that are far from proven. You can’t prove God doesn’t exist so as far as I can see atheism is as much of a faith as any other belief system. Insisting on God’s non existence is therefore irrational, and getting emotional about that is an indication of attachment to that belief that is beyond rational.

        • bjw678

          A god that does nothing observable or provable is functionally equivalent to a god that doesn’t exist.
          So even if he does exist, there is no point to his existence.

          • robert2013MEMBER

            You’re making a bunch of assumptions right there about what I think God is and how he works (assuming you are taking to me and not the crowd). That’s a theological question. Don’t really want to go there, but suffice to say nothing you’ve said indicates that belief in God is, prima facie, irrational. Therefore how is that belief deserving of constant and unrelenting scorn?

          • The Traveling Wilbur

            That’s an easy one. There have been 1000s of (totally separate to your God) gods before yours or anything remotely recognisable as yours.

            None of those are any less valid than yours is now were they. Not even the alligator ones. But they’re all gone now. Poof. Gone. The simple balance of probabilities suggests yours will be too one day. And they couldn’t all possibly all really have been in existance when they were being worshipped now could they. Ditto for yours then.

            So it’s not really scorn for the religion, more for the practice of it without any level of critical thinking to go with it (which is perfectly possible and many scientists do).

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Well there ya go,
        Anubis or Inpu, Anpu in Ancient Egyptian (/əˈnjuːbɪs/;[1] Ancient Greek: Ἄνουβις, Egyptian: inpw, Coptic: ⲁⲛⲟⲩⲡ Anoup) is the Greek name of the god of death, mummification, embalming, the afterlife, cemeteries, tombs, and the Underworld, in ancient Egyptian religion, usually depicted as a canine or a man with a canine head. Archeologists have identified Anubis’s sacred animal as an Egyptian canid, the African golden wolf.[2][3][4][note 1]

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      Bollocks. Most people do not believe in any diety. I’ll leave your imaginary friend alone if you don’t just make stuff up…

      … like all those other religions… you know, the not real ones…

        • The Traveling Wilbur

          Dunno what the census has to do with anything. Above it says “most people”. Not “most people in Australia”.

          That said. More do believe than not in the world. If you count 1slam and H1ndu religions that is. Otherwise, yeah, nah.

          • robert2013MEMBER

            The census shows that most people in Australia have a faith, and globally you’ve just admitted that most people have a faith. So what exactly is your point?

          • The Traveling Wilbur

            Depends on whether you reckon those groups “believe in God, in one form or another” I guess.

          • Darth Sidious

            Yes, most people in Australia have a faith that house prices double every 7 years. So obvious!!

    • bjw678

      Cool plan bro, but I think the MB dogs will probably ban you long before you get anyone to stop using it.
      I’d also imagine Dog believers are a much lower percentage here than the general population given the evidence based/logical bent of the place.

        • bjw678

          Have you noticed a theme to the responses to your post here?
          Look around, maybe this isn’t the place for you.
          Even if you never get censored, people won’t be stopping.

          The only religion worshipped here is economics, and even that is on very shaky ground.

    • ArthurMEMBER

      Robert, I just like dogs. To me, they are the perfect embodiment of spirit. Loyal, loving, not judgemental, accepting, pure of heart and uncalculating. Thank dog. When I say it, I really mean thank you to my dogs

      • robert2013MEMBER

        And yet one doesn’t thank the edible flora of the world for being such a lovely non violent source of food. Full disclosure: I am not vego.

        • ArthurMEMBER

          Huh? Are you saying I cannot thank who I wish to thank if it is logically inconsistent or less than totally inclusive?

          I think you may find yourself on thin ice there

          EDIT: I have severe sleep deprivation after last week. Don’t expect replies from me today, I will be pissed, feeding the dog, then asleep

    • bolstroodMEMBER

      it’s like “evil” backwards is “live”
      “Devil” reversed is “lived”
      There is probably a name for this , but I don’t know it.
      If your eye offends you …. It’s bluddie Labor’s fault

    • GavinMEMBER

      I thought Dog was being substituted for God by autocorrect on the phone.

      I too have a deity. The Flying Spaghetti Monster. 😃

    • TrooDoh

      Yeah, it does seem needlessly insulting and demeaning. Such language doesn’t add to constructive intellectual discourse at all.

  57. ComingMEMBER

    So , should everyone be running out to get private health insurance right now ?

    Private ICU beds will presumably be only for privately insured patients , and may create two separate waiting lists/levels of urgency

    Pretty cheap insurance policy for a few thousand especially for people 50+
    Only need it for one year

    I’m assuming there is no waiting period for ICU since it’s not a preexisting condition

    Or are the health funds already on to it ?

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Might be a waiting period before treatment for the Bat Sniffles is covered.

      • BigDuke6MEMBER

        Given expensive care / intensive care is charged to the fund at $2500 / day the funds will do there best to see it as a pre-existing complaint but the case can be argued it is not when you get it.

        • BigDuke6MEMBER

          Interesting. Beware NIB. They are specialists in junk policies. If ever I have a patient crying as they realize they are not covered it’s NIB. Even seen their own employees reeling and no mercy shown. Dodgy bunch

          • L

            I second this.

            NIB are absolutely the worst health fund currently in existence. It has reached the point where many doctors won’t accept them non-Gap arrangements with them, as their rebates are horrendous.

        • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

          2 months we’ll be 1m cases. 180k needing hospital beds.

          We cannot do it by any stretch of the imagination.

        • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

          With a bit of luck the entire Private health insurance industry will be bankrupted and we can move away from having a revolting 2 tier Health system in our country.

          • Mining BoganMEMBER

            This is the sort of idea that has to be kept forward until we come out the other side. The government has totally stuffed this up so it’s up to us to make sure something good can come out of it.

    • BigDuke6MEMBER

      I thought of this and it’s true there will proportionally be more beds in the private sector and more room to convert elective surgery wards to high dependency units. Whether this would mean Medicare bought room on these wards is hard to say. But yes your private health might be about to be worth it all along.
      Failing that dr stranglove has the solution
      https://youtu.be/Y8icpnrLqx0

      • migtronixMEMBER

        Oh please. Alfred ICU is 45 beds and can scale a few more in extremes such as this – say it during H1N1. Richmond is like 8 ICU beds.

        • ChameraMEMBER

          Epworth Richmond is 26 ICU beds, Epworth Eastern 8. But I suspect there will be pooling of resources between public and private through this period.

    • pajjer457

      The government are slowly moving to a wartime footing. Those ICU beds will become available to whoever needs them. The government has enough leverage to force this. They may ask nicely first, they won’t be given a second opportunity to refuse.

      • BigDuke6MEMBER

        Absolutely correct. However it’s first in best dressed and the gov will be slow to act

    • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

      Unless you’re an elite you won’t be getting a bed private or public unless it’s in the next 4 weeks.

      After that, you’ll die in the streets.

    • bjw678

      How many ICU beds are in private hospitals?
      My understanding is most serious stuff is treated in a public hospital anyway. Your health insurance merely buys you a private room rather than a ward with others.

    • bolstroodMEMBER

      The way things are going with the LNP govt., private Hospitals will be nationalised as an emergency measure…
      and not before time.

    • GavinMEMBER

      Been with Bupa since 2013. Company policy. I kept it after leaving. But I suspect when the shyte hits the fan, public / private won’t matter.

    • robert2013MEMBER

      Does private insurance cover ICU? I thought private hospitals were a bit like private schools – they only take the easy ones.

      • BigDuke6MEMBER

        Bigger Private Hospitals have ICU …and TRAINED staff, lets not forget
        Their capacity is maybe 1/3 of public hospitals in our area so not to be sniffed at as it sounds like some here are doing.
        What people are forgetting is that a true ICU is not needed for the most part with COVID 19 – ventilator support can be set up in any unit to triple capacity – i’m not saying it will be enough but dont let me get in the way of you all carrying on like pork chops.

  58. darklydrawlMEMBER

    Looks like schools in Victoria will be closed from Tuesday. Not official yet, but they are certainly pushing for it.

    Katharine Murphy – The Guardian
    “NSW and Victoria to push for further bans, including schools

    Things are moving very quickly today. National cabinet is meeting tonight instead of Tuesday.

    I’ve confirmed that New South Wales and Victoria will seek a ban at today’s meeting on all non-essential activities (that means pubs, clubs and restaurants – not supermarkets).

    The hope is to preserve a consensus rather than having states doing different things.

    Victoria also wants to shut the schools from Tuesday this coming week.

    Again the hope is to emerge with a consensus, but I gather Victoria is prepared to go it alone on schools in the event a consensus does not emerge.”

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      Seems like the MSM is finally hooking into the fact ScoMo’s kids had not been attending school for the past few weeks.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        They were all defending him last night. Lots of hey, his kids are sick so he kept them at home for a couple of days. Or they believed what the PMO said.

        Nobody was buying it.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        That the pannel on ABCs Insiders didn’t mention this once, when its all over Twitter, proves that ABC Management is now directly under LNP control.

        Since when was Patricia Karvelas an LNP shill?

        I suspect her career is on the line,…all of their careers are.
        Thats why they are all closing establishment ranks.
        Notice how that old duck Nicky Savva, usually the partisan LNP voice on Insiders, was the only one having a crack at tbe LNP Government.

        Maybe Karvelas has been given instructions to tweet supporting tweets if she wants to land a Prime Ministerial interview now Leigh sales has been black balled for calling out Morrisons white house/hill song lie.

        https://twitter.com/PatsKarvelas/status/1241219625083211777?s=19

        • TrooDoh

          Didn’t LVO say Karvelas was pretty hostile to him the one time he was invited onto her show to discuss population and immigration levels?

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      The most responsible thing any parent or citizen can do is to relentlessly demand of our Government a full shutdown of everything,… including Schools,… especially Schools to contain this virus until proven treatments become available.

  59. migtronixMEMBER

    South Australia shut its borders. Its got more borders than any state in Australia!

  60. Ronin8317MEMBER

    1285 cases now, NSW just added 97. We are right on track to become another Italy.

  63. Totes BeWokeMEMBER

    Wife’s friend’s got a feaver, coughing, sneezing and sore throat.

    On the 1800 number on and off for an hour and a half two days in a row.

    Straya. LNP and Labor.

    We are about to be smacked in the face with exactly what this country deserves for continuing to vote LNP and Labor.

    • ceeMEMBER

      Are their eyes unusually sore and tender?
      Forget about being tested unless you have been overseas and only recently returned. Eligibility for being tested is fairly strict.

      • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

        Yes. Got through to a doctor, high temperature and confirmed likely viral. No test due to what you’ve said.

      • JobbyMEMBER

        My sister had a GP appointment last week and was advised that she had the symptoms of COVID-19 but could not be tested because she could not confirm whether any of the approximately 100 people that attended a conference with her had tested positive. You can’t make this stuff up it is absolutely scandalous. We have no chance without lockdown simply because there aren’t even enough tests!

        • ChameraMEMBER

          This is why we are doomed. The government and its medical advisory panel have no clue what they are doing. We are headed for Italian proportions of doom. Testing widely is the foundation of any strategy, any closures etc are all moot points if you can’t diagnose and isolate cases quickly. Reality is it has spread, we will lock down and those infected and not yet showing symptoms will spread it to their families whilst in lockdown. 2 weeks and our hospitals will be completely smashed. We haven’t even mobilised the military or set up field hospitals like the US is doing, you can criticise trump but we are another level of stupid.

  64. TrooDoh

    Came across this comment on Reddit and thought it was worth a repost here:

    “I hope when this is all said and done, Australians take stock of how and why we were exposed to this crisis.

    It’s not the Chinese or the Italians or the Iranians we should be looking at. But in our own back yard. Decades of weak and corrupt political leaders have put us at risk.

    We are a continent of almost unlimited resources. Until recently we were the most affluent (on paper at least). We are a net exporter of food. We are one of the most technically advanced countries in the world. We have the intelligence, resources and ability to control the spread of this virus, care for our sick, and wait out all the supply issues while the rest of the world implodes.

    And yet, here we are. We can’t protect our first responders because we can’t manufacture masks. Our hospitals will buckle under the weight of our sick because we’ve spent decades trying to force people into an American style private health system while neglecting the staff and resourcing of our public system.

    We can’t even be adults and warn the public without freaking everyone out. We spent the months since the start of the crisis in China telling everyone not to worry – it’s just the flu bro. This was so pervasive that even some of our healthcare professionals are paying off the threat. And now we shame the people who, perhaps misguided, rushed out to protect their families when the collective realisation set in. That we don’t make anything in this country. Our medications, our antibiotics, anything not grown in the ground (except TP) is shipped in from China.

    We all know this. We ship wool to China, they ship cheap T-Shirts to us. We ship coal and iron ore to China, they ship cheap steal to us. We import most of our oil. We can barely keep electricity affordable despite having some of the largest gas and coal reserves in the world. Our political leaders, from Keating, to Howard, to Rudd/Gillard/Rudd/Abbot/Turnbull/Scotty from marketing. All they have achieved is the dismantling of Australian sovereignty. They have exported our security and turned us into a tributary state. People will die, not just from the virus, but from all the secondary complications caused by supply issues and overloaded hospitals. It is these people, their corporate overlords, and their media mates, who have traded the wealth of this country for beans.

    They will not be affected by this. Their families are protected. Yours are not.”

    • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

      They’ll be affected in the riots.

      Hopefully Australia then votes to confiscate their families wealth no matter where they’ve absconded to.

      • bjw678

        Australians don’t get to vote for that. I’m pretty sure parliament isn’t voting in legislation to take out it’s own wealth.
        Change of style of government by force is the only solution.

        • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

          Vote for a party that will do it.

          In my view, there’s going to be some very radical parties forming. Vote for them.

          • bjw678

            Problem is power corrupts.
            As soon as a party achieves a sniff of actual power watch the priorities change.
            Exemplar 1. How much of a f#$K do the greens give about the environment?

          • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

            “Exemplar 1. How much of a f#$K do the greens give about the environment?”

            I can’t argue against that. The power has to be taken away from them as soon as they fail to fulfill the purpose of us putting them there. Which is pretty much my entire argument to get rid of Labor and why everything is their fault.

            If we did that, we’d have parties who represent us.

    • Darth Sidious

      This is pretty much what I have been stating all along. But most people do not know the mechanics of how it came to this, let alone how to get out of the pitfall.

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      All of the above is true, however what doomed Australia is the stubborn refusal to close the border and shut down community transmission until it is too late. I can pinpoint the date : 12th March. That’s when we should have shutdown.

      • TrooDoh

        Yeah, the Population Ponzi is a prime reason why ScoMo was so reticent to close the borders and why our health systems are already overstretched. It’s also why we have so many “unAustralian” types now residing in our country.

        The Ponzi will kill Australians.

  65. Mining BoganMEMBER

    Jebus, next door is having a family get together. Lots of little grandchildren. He had a heart attack not long ago, has a pacemaker in and is still short of breath.

    Insanity.

    • Darth Sidious

      Insanity?

      I saw bright future when I was growing up. Then I saw the steady decline and selling out of the country. I now can see the future that is not great. I may as well spend my little left time with my grandchildren while I still can. They may pass the coronavirus from their vibrant schools to me but I am fine with that….

    • GavinMEMBER

      My neighbour had a 50th last night. Lots of people and drinking until late. Good for them, but risky.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Were the states waiting for Scummo to do the right thing this morning? Now that he hasn’t and the states had to act themselves surely Scummo has to hand the reigns over to someone else.

      Only problem is there’s not a lot of depth in that squad.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Maybe the most Narracistic and Sociopathic among them will stand aside, not wanting to take responsibility for the Coming shyte storm.
        The right person will need to crush a lot of ego’s and p!ss off a lot of vested interests.
        But Im not thinking about ANY of the current leading light of either party.
        It has to be someone new and uncorrupted

      • bjw678

        what idiot would put their hand up for that poisoned chalice? It’s lose-lose decisions as far as the eye can see.

        • Mining BoganMEMBER

          Well, pretty sure the Albotross would if given a chance.

          You know how you drive around in an old wreck until it dies then just walk away, leaving it to clog up a road for months on end? I could see Scummo and Co doing that, then come back to reclaim it when it’s been fixed up…like they’ve always done when you think about it.

        • ArthurMEMBER

          Well, yes bjw. But only if career is your thing. The right person will be someone to whom rationality and correct decision-making is above career. Rare, but they exist. Not only among scientists and engineers, either. They do exist

          • bjw678

            Someone who meets those requirements is pushed out of politics long before getting a seat in parliament.
            The only way to get anywhere in politics is put career above all else, except maybe snout in trough.
            See the endless stream of backstabbing and throwing under the bus that politics is.

            I think part of the reason the current crop are the worst ever is because ultimately anyone wanting to be a PM is wanting to be remembered, and anyone smart enough to understand whats actually going on has given it a wide berth at the moment because who wants to be remembered as the guy who presided over the worst times in 100 years?

  67. Janet

    50% Guarantees of new commercial bank loans? That’s a good way down the road to banking nationalisation.
    (“That’s not gonna happen!” – we’ll see. Return the credit creation process to the sovereign. We starts at – 50%)

    • mdseeMEMBER

      And unsecured too. How many will be taking out $250k loans, pocketing the cash and Phoenixing – especially with ScoMo’s changes re going a company for their debts and forcing into insolvency proceedings?

  68. Mining BoganMEMBER

    I saw someone on Twitter last night saying house prices should be frozen until after the WuFlu crisis blows over. Guess they’d like the same for the ASX too.

    Don’t anyone tell Scummo…

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      Yep. House sales need to be banned until the next new super supreme sized boom!

    • GavinMEMBER

      They may not have to do that. If things really shut down houses may not be sold due to no conveyancers or real estate agents working etc.. so I wouldn’t be surprised to see volume dry up and sales stop all together.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        This is Staya! Everything to do with RE is considered essential!

        Anyway, they’ll have to be there while the one percenters finish offloading their stock.

      • mark777

        I don’t have a job, not earning income, can I sell my house? I only got 5% equity cos I leveraged to my eyeballs

    • NikoMEMBER

      States had no choice. They are seeing that people stopped listening to Scumo and stopped taking their kids to school. This coming week my view was that more than 70% of kids in Syd and Mel wouldn’t turn up anyway.
      This is bad for The Libs especially the Fed LIBS as people are taking matters in their hands instead of waiting on advice/direction of the government and their CMO. Problem is where there is no leadership there is vacuum and danger to end up with anarchy.
      We really elected the worst people in office at worst possible time.

      • TrooDoh

        Even ScoMo’s belated decision to finally close the borders seemed to be preempted by the airlines cutting back flights and Tasmania shutting its borders.

        • NikoMEMBER

          correct, if he left them open he would have looked like complete 1d1iot that he is as no one could have turn up anyway.

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      How do you practise social distancing in a 12 person dorm? Actually, I squeeze about that many v1brants into some of my rooms. Oh well. Sh1t happens.

    • Kelly Chen

      They should be charged for treatment. Too bad if they can’t afford it, they’ll get no treatment. Didn’t one of those lying around on Bondi say they’re young, so their bodies can handle it. Fine. Let their bodies handle it on their own.

  71. doctorX

    strange to see people here talking about societies and states collapsing?

    why would any government risk collapse of the social system by trying to save 1% of population mostly old age
    events from these dark predictions (starvation, riots, looting, crime, gangs, ….) would take way more lives so why not just let virus go through

    • innocent bystanderMEMBER

      they’re trying to save capitalism.
      save banks etc.
      save house prices (if they can) cause that will undermine banks

      and money for the riff raff to stop revolution and storming of the gates.

    • bjw678

      Because the government has no where near as much control as you think it does?

      Although all the bear porn fans around here are rubbing themselves raw at the moment, so there’s that as well. I;d hardly call the MB comments section, fair sensible and balanced.

    • ComingMEMBER

      Yes, precisely

      If there were a referendum on the topic, I’m sure the majority of the population would choose preservation of their freedoms and function over the lives of a few hundred thousand elderly

      I certainly would

      Of course, as another poster pointed out, the virus is just an fig leaf to hide the bail out the cavaliers of credit once again

    • T

      Because there is heaps more going on which no one has told you about. Most people cannot conceive that the world is substantially more complex than they think, and largely this is a good thing.

      If they understood how complex/ugly the world is, they would sh!t themselves, and then could not go on with their lives. As long as they get the little dopamine hits, and their they are moving up in the social status food chain, they are happy. So everyone else is happy to leave them in their bubbles.

      Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MK0j765ko4

    • ChameraMEMBER

      The calculus isn’t that simple. Italy’s rate is closer to 8% now. When the hospital system is overwhelmed the mortality rate goes higher as patient that could survive with treatment die. Then there’s the opportunity cost as well, people that can’t be admitted due to capacity constraints die from what were treatable diseases. Then there is a percentage of the medical workforce that dies. The impacts are compounding not a simple 1% as you assert.

    • Chase

      An economy can’t collapse. However, the current economic system can collapse. There will still be the same global resources to be had. The economy system will however, change. The way we distribute said resources will change however.

      Is putting so much resources into questionable services worth it at the expense of proper healthcare or social instability, no.

  73. innocent bystanderMEMBER

    ¿ is there any particular reason we don’t have a blood test for CoVid19?
    presumably those infected, even if asymptomatic, have their immune system kick in and start to produce antibodies?

  74. Timmeh

    So Singapore has shutdown even more now thanks to a second wave. And Scummo is keeping our schools open because they have, even though they have extremely good testing, tracking and isolation protocols, none of which that chunt has implemented in Australia. History will not be kind to that c0ck.

    • nyleta

      The real keruffle for him will start about September when they start trying to bring a lot of Chinese in to buy the houses which is the only things we can build at the moment to try and kickstart the economy a bit.

      • ChameraMEMBER

        Mate the China boom is over. Once our case surge takes over that’s the end of that wave. I suspect ppl will start leaving over the next few weeks and months.

    • darklydrawlMEMBER

      I have a native Singapore friend. Been keeping in contact with her. Useful to have someone you know on the ground.

      • Timmeh

        Same, mate is a native and still has many friends there. Said they had even shut down the MTR but I can’t find any news on it. It would send the place into complete shut down if they had.

        • darklydrawlMEMBER

          Yep. Given the expense of putting a car on the road there and the low ownership. Hell – everyone takes the MRT.

  75. T

    Unexpected benefit of Covid-19: https://reclaimthenet.org/professors-online-lectures-right-wing-sites/

    Professors spend their time spewing left wing indoctrination. Now that it is streamed people will make copies of it, and god forbid, ask professors why they are doing this?

    If the leftist stranglehold on education can be broken it will be very very good. its time the progressive cult learned that maybe, just maybe, no one wants their evangelists spewing bile on our dime.

  76. DivyaMEMBER

    So.. whats the go here? Are people now just avoiding also going to supermarkets and reverting to the shut-in stash? Husband and I were still heading out each week to get stuff, but wondering at what point do we reduce that too..

    • C3POMEMBER

      Good question. We have been just topping up at ColesWorth so far too. I think we’ll see how the supermarkets are tomorrow. If it sounds like it is feral we will avoid from now and just stay with our local baker/butcher/corner store for basics. Will try to wait and see before we look to the long life milk, tinned and other prepper stocks.

    • The BurbWatcherMEMBER

      My wife and I are heading ColesWorths tomorrow to do a stock-up (if anything is left when we get there), as well as spend vouchers we have for certain clothing shops before they go out of business.

      We are taking our son out of school this week, and shutting-in

      • triageMEMBER

        I’d suggest you find out when the supermarket you intend going to is expecting its next delivery. If you don’t time it right then the store will be stripped in a couple of hours. Apparently there were huge queues this morning at opening time at the local Coles and Costco at Canberra Airport had lines of people across their car park and over to a neighbouring shopping centre. The thing is Costco had no bog rolls at all and actually seem to have stopped selling them.

        These days if I can get a park near a supermarket I know the store has already been cleaned out for the day.

    • ChameraMEMBER

      My view is it’s completely spread, best to stay indoors if you’re prepared. The thousands of cases we will see next week are already transmitting without symptoms, they just haven’t had bad symptoms yet. There’s a number of weeks lag in numbers. This is why numbers in Italy continue to rise even after shutdown. Factor 1 is cases already transmitting that didn’t have symptoms, Factor 2 is spreading to families whilst in lockdown due to lack of proper detection and isolation protocols being used. This is turbocharging the growth in numbers.

      • DivyaMEMBER

        Right? I feel like, there is weeks of lag and if you think you will be seeing a massive up swing in a few weeks, then the time to isolate is now. I dunno…
        Is there going to be a time when you wont be allowed out without a mask.. that’s when I’d feel safe going out.

        • darklydrawlMEMBER

          Excactly why they should have shut down the schools weeks ago. It was always going to need to be closed at some point and sooner seems better than later. Seems we are leaving everything to the last minute. GP F1, AFL, Schools. Dunno why they do that. Seems nuts to me (or careless)? FWIIW we had already decided the kids were not going back to school this week.

        • ChameraMEMBER

          Part of the reason it’s dangerous to go out at the moment is it’s spread and people aren’t being careful enough. Once we get to 4000 cases end of next weekend and everything is locked down might be safer to put on a mask and go out as everyone will be in fear at home…

          • triageMEMBER

            1. I haven’t seen any masks of any description for sale in weeks.
            2. Most of the masks I see being used may stop the wearer from infecting others but they most certainly won’t stop the wearer from being infected.

    • darklydrawlMEMBER

      We’re just topping up stuff at the moment to ensure the buffers stay stable. Usually short runs to the local IGA or foodworks. We are fully prepared for a full lock in. Did the prepper shop over a month ago – was great as not many folks were thinking like that so everything was in stock and easy to get back then.

      • DivyaMEMBER

        Yeah this is what we are doing too, just topping up what we use and fresh vegetables too.
        But I am wondering at what stage is it “just recede now and make do with what you have”.. time that wrong with grave consequences..

        • Mining BoganMEMBER

          Once we reach the 50 a day dead. Yes, I realise that will be damage done weeks earlier but for me that’s the sign we’re going full Italy. I won’t be going out.

        • darklydrawlMEMBER

          Great question Divya. Been having the same thoughts on this too. The timing IS critical. Go to early and you’ll run out. Go to late and it will be all for nothing. Glad I am not the only one thinking these thoughts.

        • Popcod

          Today. I’m with Chamera above, it is out there and being spread asymptomatically. I guess if you are somewhere quite rural which doesn’t have much interaction with the outside world your risk might be lower but Mum put her foot down tonight and Dad can’t go to Bunnings tomorrow to buy chicken coop materials. Turns out his trip to the supermarket, Bunnings and the chemist on Frrday was the last time any of us are ‘going out’ for a while. I tried to tell mum that once everyone goes ful lshut down mode and people are wearing masks and we get our safety goggles to wear with the masks it will be relatively safe to do a supermarket run (I didn’t mention sterilising fresh food), but she wasn’t up to hearing reason.

          • haroldusMEMBER

            @poppy do you think it is possible there are conversations going on outside of your earshot?

  77. ComingMEMBER

    I think that any of you who believe this will crush house prices are absolutely delusional

    Interest rates will be zero or negative forever, regardless of the real inflation rate
    Government deficits will explode
    Loans will be marked to fantasy.
    No one will be foreclosed upon
    Rents? Maybe there will be rent assistance, but it will essentially be a landlord owner’s grant to prevent rents from collapsing.

    Whatever your position in assets is now, that is where youre going to be stuck
    Everyone else is going to be a vassal of the state

    Cashed up? Why would anyone exchange real assets for your cash that returns 0% or even negative in bonds/deposits whatever

    This was always going to be the end game

    So many people here were gloating that this was finally their chance to inherit the earth, after years of virtue/”saving”
    Classic cognitive bias

    The end of capitalism isn’t a socialist utopia

    Its a feudal society with landholders, and peasants

    • Kelly Chen

      Besides mortgage payments, there are other holding costs like strata, rates, utilities and insurance. Maybe these can be suspended too? When a IP remains vacant, with no hope on having it tenanted from high unemployment, there would reach a point when people will sell at any cost, to stop the monthly hemorrhage.

    • DivyaMEMBER

      I think I calculated all the deceased estates itself adds an extra Sydney to the stock, and that’s assuming they come on market over a year (not all at once) with a sensible death rate, not the kind of murderous one this govt is driving this shipwreck towards.
      No NIRP required, No foreclosure required, No loans marked to fantasy required and no govt deficits required.
      Side thought – i wonder what happens when all those imports that use 1 medicare card between 5 need a hospital bed all at the same time…

      • zaxxonMEMBER

        “Side thought – i wonder what happens when all those imports that use 1 medicare card between 5 need a hospital bed all at the same time…”

        That just made my night. Thank you.

    • csfnMEMBER

      The biggest confidence crushing event in living memory, coming at a time of record household indebtedness, and you’re calling no impact on house prices? Can you please share your forecast for say, 6 or 12 months time?

      • bjw678

        Actually I’d say it was neither, it was the industrial revolution and the need for skilled labour that increased the value of the rabble to allow a middle class. Neither capitalism, nor democracy have changed significantly in the last half century, but automation, and globalisation have made local skilled labour surplus to most requirements, with the reappearance of feudalism.

    • C3POMEMBER

      I’m glad you have this view Coming – you’ve been wrong on everything so far re this Virus so I consider you the new Pascometer on this subject. For my kids and the next generations’ sake – thanks 🙂

    • Bat Eater

      A lot of jobs will disappear and never come back. It will take years for people with stable jobs to rebuild their finances (will probably never will).

  78. NikoMEMBER

    and those Scandinavians are now within striking distance. Go Scumo let’s show them how it’s done.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Gotta watch out for those sneaky Brazilians sneaking up from behind. They have the talent to go to the quarters.

      • NikoMEMBER

        too early for that mate. these are qualifies. tournament starts in 2 weeks. I think we are going to enter group stage in great form and momentum will carry us in to the quarters.

  79. ColinMEMBER

    Ha Ha! So got word the Good Ol boys in the boondock towns around here have been Seeing Off the New Australian hordes (fully 6hours from Syd/Melb) – No more cleaning out of their Supermarkets by Daigou! I’m surprised it took so long. Welcome to New Australia – where you join the F’en Far Queue!

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Oh c’mon, we need to hear more about this!

      Anyway, the Guardian said it was a myth.

      • ColinMEMBER

        Does the Guardian, guard Truth or Narrative? It Ain’t No Myth! Word from a known source around Grenfell/Cowra is similar – that Locusts came with buses & trailers & strip mined them to nothing. Same from a reliable source in Goulburn – said it was happening on a daily basis. Stories from Cooma & Crookwell too. And now down on the Far South Coast & their hinterland area’s. A town I know a bit too well put them! After being told to [email protected]@er off, they were a tad insistent (what a surprise), so the owner called the pub across the road for some ‘presence’ & ran them out of town – then rang ahead for the next town to put them as well – I can assure you the second town would be more than happy to oblige – they have something called a Community in those hilly area’s! I presume that’s some dangerous bit of gear to people who don’t want to be part of it & just want to take from it?

        • TailorTrashMEMBER

          The minute men in action …..stick a few cans of baked beans in ham sauce up their daigous will fix thing for sure ………

        • matthew hoodMEMBER

          Just heard that a bus load of Chinese turned up to Narrandera!!!!! To try and strip it bare. Same thing happened, locals said they had 2 chances of getting of the bus, Buckley’s or none. The driver got the msg and went.

          • TheRedEconomistMEMBER

            Yeah apparently a bus of Chinese came into Sussex inlet and cleaned out the Spar.

  80. Totes BeWokeMEMBER

    Scott Pape “yet payday lenders can legally charge their customers an outrageous 407.6% per annum (not a typo) for a one month loan”

    “Please, spend 30 seconds — right now — and send an email to”

    [email protected]

    • GavinMEMBER

      I have 0 faith in that person doing anything? Are we going to email asking to block PayDay lenders from trading at all? We should have banned them years ago.

    • bjw678

      lol, these threads are getting ridiculous. Someone IT savvy and in lockdown needs to set up and host an MB forum so we call all move there for our lockdown entertainment.

      • innocent bystanderMEMBER

        there used to be a MB discussion forum
        no one used it, too orderly.

        ppl want to be part of the circle jerk

      • NikoMEMBER

        for the number 1 you are probably short 1 zero.
        for number 2 .. close enough
        for number 3 way overboard but if it was harold then you are missing few zeros.

    • darklydrawlMEMBER

      and that is per day, or even thread. Getting hard to keep up! Strange and exciting days though. Not everyone gets to see history being made and live it

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      Lost golf-ball?
      Time the Mrs asked you to do the laundry?
      Hoarded roll of TP?

  82. TrooDoh

    Geoffrey Blainey:

    “In retrospect, the warning that should have been etched in our mind was the influenza disaster of 1918-19. It shook and shocked Australia­. According to professor John Mathews, an Australian expert on pandemics, this worldwide event “proved to have some gene segments like those from pig and bird influenza, which explains why it was new to humans in 1918”. Wartime conditions helped this so-called Spanish flu to spread in crowded army camps.

    …

    Last year was the centenary of that influenza pandemic. As a nation­ we failed to remember it, largely because it coincided with the signing of the peace treaty that ended World War I and created a new Europe.

    I was one of the historians who, last November, should have given the Spanish flu more attention when I spoke at dinners celebrating the Treaty of Versailles and the end of the war.

    It was vital that the tragedies of 1919 should be inside our national memory. They convey the message­: Be prepared. But this year we were not prepared, ­mentally, for a new pandemic.”

    Complacency lulled us into delusion – https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/coronavirus-complacency-lulled-all-of-us-into-delusion/news-story/de0542e846f29e8ef2bd8011fb4d4c2b

    • LSWCHPMEMBER

      I was neither complacent or deluded. I could see what was coming in December last year. But I’m not the PM.

  85. happy valleyMEMBER

    Rupert’s two Sydney Sunday Tele chief attack dogs and LNP defenders of defending the indefensible have vomit-inducing pieces in your Corona Tele today.

  86. NikoMEMBER

    30min ago I opened 2013 Cab Sauv from Broombee Organisc Wines. Will start drinking in 30min with my dinner.

    • darklydrawlMEMBER

      Nice. I must admit I am looking at the wine / booze stash. Must make it last! 🙂 Organic / Orgasmic – either is good.

      As a side note – I am buying organic wines more frequently too these days.

      • NikoMEMBER

        if I survive this sh1te and don’t get financially hit too hard I will buy rest of his stock. This stuff is good.

    • LachlanMEMBER

      Was at Dan’s within 20 minutes of Andrews’ announcement he was shutting it all down. Boozehound wife roused me off the couch.

      • TailorTrashMEMBER

        Surely in Straya booze is an essential service in this crisis ….alcohol sterilises and all that……….besides if you cut off the supply of slabs the punters are going to get more than a touch antsy ……………

        • darklydrawlMEMBER

          Purchased a bottle of Vodka the other day and the lady at the counter looked at me questioningly and asked if “I was planning to make home-made hand sanitiser” with it – I said “no” of course. She said heaps of ppl have been coming in and buying the cheapest vodka to do just that. Which is kinda nuts as we both mentioned, you need 60% alcohol for it to be effective. What a waste of vodka.

          • Frostilicus

            Not much of a sanitizer, but will surely give that virus a hangover to remember… and a pounding headache.

          • Frostilicus

            Sheeple go to Bunnings to get metho… none left on the shelves… paint shop over the road, shelves full. Got a 10l of metho, no worries. HA!

          • LSWCHPMEMBER

            Put anything alcoholic in a container of water on the stove. Heat. Make a tube you can run through some ice so the vapour condenses. Collect the drops and voila, instant spirits. I believe you need to be careful with the temperature so you get the right fraction, otherwise you’ll kill yourself if you drink it.

          • Frostilicus

            Ensure that vapors are not allowed to accumulate lest one wants to blow the joint up.

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      Yep – they get their numbers from the always reliable data spat out by the ABS numberwang and base their decisions on that? What could go wrong on that basis?

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      Yep – they get their numbers from the always reliable data spat out by the ABS numberwang and base their decisions on that? What could go wrong on that basis?

  88. Vector

    Doc X unfortunately the hope that Aus is not following the path of Italy and growing at a slower rate seems to be coming unstuck.
    We have close to 276 cases in one day today after we passed 1000 yesterday and the day is not even over.
    I expect we will only see the impact of the shutdowns in 2-3 weeks from now.

    • Arthur Schopenhauer

      Total cases x 1.4 to the power of the number of days.

      That’s the equation. And it’s baked in for the next 7 to 14 days.

      As ‘today’s cases’ gets higher, the daily multiplier approaches 1.5.

  89. Ronin8317MEMBER

    Reading about someone’s experience in a Chinese airport. Coming back from overseas, first the custom officer takes a swab, then he is isolated in a room until the result is out (12 hours). He is released after the result shows negative, then he needs further self isolate for 14 days.

    If we implement this in Australia from the start, we would not be in this mess right now. Take the 2700 people from the Ruby Princess for instance..

    • C.M.Burns

      it wasn’t just the Ruby Princess. There were 4 cruise ships into Sydney in the last week; all that have now been confirmed to have Corona onboard

    • Arthur Schopenhauer

      It’s not lack of leadership, it’s lack of competence.

      Sheer fking incompetence.

      • mdseeMEMBER

        Let’s run a Deadpool on the LNP.

        First one to go on weight for age handicap has to be The Member for Manila, but who goes first on a “ in the national interest” contest?
        Scomo has to be #1

        I’m finding it really hard to separate the rest, they are all in a dead heat for 2nd place

  90. happy valleyMEMBER

    So, the LNP best at everything managers have basically fudged their package numbers to come up with a $189bn total big number by including last week’s RBA $90bn funding package?

    • Gone Baby

      and they think by allowing people to early access of 20k of their super they are helping them! and that also included in the total estimate of the stimulus package
      imagine if someone said im helping you by giving your money to you!!!

  91. Timmeh

    So just got back from Bunnings to get a bag of potting mix. Seems the entire country has suddenly taken to gardening as the entire veggie plants section was cleaned out. Lol!
    In other news, mates nephew knows some people who sell eggs and laying chooks. Apparently thats the latest trend. Buying laying hens! Wonder what strata will say about chooks on the balcony?

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      It may come as a shock to the new chicken owners that it takes 20 weeks before a new born chick will start laying eggs. Beyond eggs, chicken also lay a LOT of poo.

      • The Traveling Wilbur

        They’d be used to it by now, surely (yet another bird promising so much and taking so long to deliver).

        • Gone Baby

          Aha! that’s why they bought all that toilet paper !! also hope we wont end up with bird flu with all these chooks all around the neighbourhoods

      • JimMEMBER

        Pigs next, then goats. Before you know it the LNP will have realized their dream of creating a peasant class.

        • The Traveling Wilbur

          You have hit upon an essential services business idea that would be a key prerequisite to that activity: Fire pit removals. You may have that one.

          I’ve already cornered the lamppost scaffolding and stairwell preparation market.

    • fred nurk

      we’ve had chooks for 15 years or more. Just got 4 new ones, the 2 old girls just seem to do nothing but complain about the quality of the treats. No eggs from them. But attitude? Lot’s of that alright. Maybe trade a few eggs for something we don’t have with next door..

  92. Hugh PavletichMEMBER

    UNITED KINGDOM …

    Nationalising rail networks is the ‘only option’ as deals stall … Oliver Gill … UK Telegraph (behind paywall)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/21/nationalising-rail-networks-option-deals-stall/

    Passenger numbers plummeted 70pc this week, hitting company profits

    The Government risks being left with no choice but to nationalise train networks as the financial pressure on the railways rises.

    The Department for Transport is in a race to find a solution on two high-speed train networks, after plans to award lucrative contract extensions were scuppered by the coronavirus outbreak.

    Officials last week delayed handing new deals to transport companies FirstGroup and Go-Ahead to run the Great Western and Southeastern franchises respectively.

    Industry sources said that FirstGroup and Go-Ahead were struggling to obtain crucial bank guarantees required to run the lines after shares in both companies plunged. … read more via hyperlink above … behind paywall …

  93. Chase

    It would be great if temporary visas for work in non-essential work got cancelled.

    Send them back and their elderly parents who always just seem to be visiting.

    Also no more PR approvals with Medicare cards attached – we can’t be adding to the potential health crisis with extra bodies.

    Our health system (be it private or public) doesn’t need to be tested with extra bodies around with questionable health.

    • Lenny Hayes for PMMEMBER

      Read today that is exactly what Singapore has done: the only temporary visa holders allowed into the country are those in Health and Transport. All others have to apply for admittance.

      Scomo loves bringing up Singapore as the basis for his decisions but the comparison is chalk and cheese.

      • Chase

        Great. And we don’t need the added issue of these temporary visa holders sending money out of the economy with remittances.

    • Popcod

      They can’t leave when the planes stop flying, which is about to happen. So we are stuck with them.

      • jimboMEMBER

        He’s smart – only shows up for cameos which keeps his currency high. Like a good comedian, hit the high note and get outta there!

    • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

      Bcnich literally freaked out so hard he said he made all the sunspot stuff up, although the timing is impeccable, anyway left sunspot apprentices like me high and dry fckn

      • GavinMEMBER

        I think he’s seriously worried about the fall out. Believes it’s gonna be like the great depression all over again. I actually believe him, which is what worries me.

    • Timmeh

      Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of chunts. Except maybe the banks. And the RE agents. And Murdoch. And the gas cartel. And the Uni’s. And the Visa export industry. and ….

      • TailorTrashMEMBER

        Yes this little Chinese bat bug will send the miracle Strayan economy down the S bend ………..funny how now every time a politician opens their mouth the second word is no longer China …………..complete fcukwits ….

  96. NikoMEMBER

    just had a skype chat with my mom and sister in Macedonia.. My sister is a teacher and just told me Macedonia shut schools back on 11 Mar and are due to re-open this Wed but everyone thinks shutdown will be extended. Macedonia is third world country. WHen I told them that our rugby clubs have more face-mask than our hospitals both of them looked shocked. I saw the fear in their faces and could tell what they were thinking.. almost cried. farrk.
    maybe is the wine talking now as I am almost done with the first bottle.

    • jimboMEMBER

      Spoke with relos in southern Italy, they’re all good with no direct contact or knowledge of anyone affected. Similar story for those in Rotterdam, they didn’t seem too concerned but they’re probably at the same point in the cycle as most Aussies – still standing on the beach in awe of this gigantic wave on the horizon. They’re in close contact with other cousins in Venice and they seem OK at this stage too. The underlying feeling I’m hearing and seeing everywhere is it won’t happen to me.

    • TrooDoh

      Anglosphere countries have been the most complacent/slow acting to date. They’ve learnt from little from Italy, sadly. This could end quite badly.

      How is the Macedonian health system in general?

        • TrooDoh

          Serbia and Macedonia seemed second world to me. Some of the Albanian towns we drove though in Macedonia did appear noticeably poorer than the rest of the country. Interestingly, EU-member Romania and neighbouring Moldova looked the poorest. Transylvania is nice but Bucharest looks like it was bombed and never properly rebuilt. You can still see horse and carts in Romania and Moldova!

          I reckon Poland is a good example of a former communist country catching up with the West.

    • C.M.Burns

      4 cruise ships came back into Sydney harbour in the last week. So that’s what, 8k – 12k guests in total

    • BoomToBustMEMBER

      My wifes 70 year old retired aunt got a plane last monday cause ” no virus is going to get in the way of my holiday” says the dutch smoker who is now trying to get back to AU. Dumb.

  98. TheRedEconomistMEMBER

    I just saw the chief operating officers for Coles and Woolworths on channel 7 Coronavirus special.

    Both of em poms .. don’t we have Aussies who can do the job? Like recruiters .. all geezers .. deadset sh!ts me.

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      If you’d ever shopped @Sainsburys you wouldn’t be surprised by that. Google it. It’s your future unless some genuine overseas investment brings in a new operator and real competition on a suburban level.

      Bwahaahaahahahahaha.

    • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

      It’s endemic in coles and ww, they hire fckwit psychopaths from sainsburys and Tesco all the time who think they can overlord the natives

      • The Traveling Wilbur

        And how’s that working out for them? “Well.” would be an understatement from their corporate perspective.

        • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

          The Chunts don’t buy Australian made Ill give ya that much, would be much better companies without the cut throat poms, much much better, they’re just paid cnts

          Fckn arrogant to the extreme to deal with, to the point I tell em to fck right off and get ya fckn hideous teeth fixed while ya at it

    • jimboMEMBER

      Worried about the reliability of ours now! It’s like driving your car in the Canadian winter – if it breaks down you’re dead (no heating). The kids will go crazy if they stop working – it’ll be back to Monopoly, Connect4 and Operation. Welcome back to the 1970s.

      • JasonMEMBER

        Luckily I got a retro Atari (with a monstrous number of games) for Christmas. Might be time to introduce the kids to the classics.

    • GavinMEMBER

      Buy a Raspberry Pi and load it with RetroPi and all the vintage arcade games and roms. If this thing continues for a while I might make a custom games cabinet to suit.

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      Not all of us. Go Qld.

      Especially as the timezone diff. just allowed me to finish my second, yep second, BWS run of the day. $40.00 for a case is a beautiful thing in a crisis.

      So is a Woodford. Have 1 hour and 45 minutes to buy more…

      (unsure whether tomorrow’s schedule – mine – will permit another run before the inevitable).