The Chinese Communist Party is not China

Via the SCMP:

When a Sydney council chose Chinese-language newspaper Vision China Times to sponsor its Lunar New Year celebrations last year, the Chinese consulate in the city warned the inclusion of the “anti-China” newspaper would harm China-Australia relations.

Correspondence seen by Australian media outlets, including the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, showed a political affairs official had written to the council, which covers Sydney’s southern suburbs, a day before a council official confirmed it would ban the newspaper as a sponsor.

For the newspaper’s owner Vision Times Media, the ban was the latest episode of political pressure for refusing to toe the Chinese Communist Party line. The paper, distributed in major cities and with a readership of 100,000, had published pieces critical of the party.

Maree Ma, general manager of Vision Times Media, said the paper’s advertisers had also faced intimidation. In one incident, state security agents occupied the office of one of its China-based advertisers until he pulled his contract with the paper, while other advertisers had been called into the Chinese consulate in Sydney for a “chat”, Ma said.

Calls to the consulate earlier this week seeking comment for this story went unanswered.

“Australia is a democratic country so anyone is free to be pro-Beijing if they choose but it becomes a problem if Beijing uses this freedom to silence others, especially in the cases of local governments, whose first priority is to be responsible to the local community,” said Ma, who maintained the company was an Australian-owned organisation not affiliated with any political or religious group.

Details of what transpired between the council and Vision China Times were revealed last month, and have once again cast the spotlight on allegations of Chinese influence on Australian lawmakers and businesses, which compelled Canberra to pass sweeping anti-foreign interference laws last year.

Beijing has repeatedly described the accusations as groundless, saying Canberra is needlessly whipping up anti-China hysteria. But fresh concerns have emerged ahead of Australia’s general election on Saturday.

About 5 per cent of the country’s population of about 24 million – or 1.2 million people – self-identify as having Chinese heritage and they comprise naturalised Australians and recent migrants with diverse political preferences.

The 2016 census estimated about 600,000 speak Mandarin at home and by virtue of this, are possible consumers of news produced by more than 60 Chinese-language media outlets in Australia.

But Australian analysts say the number of independent-minded Chinese language outlets like Vision China Times is dwindling, as more outlets demonstrate stronger links to the mainland.

In a number of swing seats, including Reid and Banks, in Sydney, and Chisholm, in Melbourne, people who self-identified as having Chinese heritage constituted as much as 20 per cent of the voting population.

Some of the biggest media groups targeting this audience – including Chinese Newspaper Group, based in Sydney, and Melbourne-based Global CAMG Media Group – are part-owned by Chinese state-owned media entities such as China Radio International.

Global CAMG Media Group was recently included in Australia’s register for organisations undertaking activities on behalf of foreign entities. The register was launched last year under the nation’s updated foreign influence laws.

Analysts say the changes in the media scene took place in recent years, as earlier waves of ethnic-Chinese migration from Hong Kong, Taiwan and Indonesia began to be supplanted by mainland Chinese.

“Sensitive news stories involving issues such as Tibet and Falun Gong are commonly dealt with through omission,” a 2016 report by the Australia-China Relations Institute at the University of Technology Sydney said.

It added “premium and welcoming coverage” of visits by Chinese leaders and the activities of local consular officials had become the norm in Australia’s Chinese-language media.

Experts attribute the friendlier stance towards Beijing by the media outlets to ongoing outreach by the Chinese government under the auspices of the Communist Party’s United Front Work Department.

The unit explicitly seeks to unite “overseas Chinese” – who number about 60 million and according to Chinese officials could rank as the 24th largest nation in the world by population – to help achieve Beijing’s goals.

These goals might include positive coverage on Chinese President Xi Jinping’s ambitious strategy to boost global trade known as the Belt and Road Initiative. But defenders of the outreach campaign say it is also meant to encourage positive ties between countries, not sow discord.

Lin Hongyu, dean of the Overseas Chinese Institute at Huaqiao University in Xiamen, said Beijing viewed overseas Chinese as a group connected by common heritage – no matter when they or their relatives left China.

“The overseas Chinese are a bridge between the state where they live and mainland China,” Lin said. “Overseas Chinese in Australia can play a role in making the relationship between China and Australia more harmonious.”

SOCIAL MEDIA

The rise of social media usage for political information has also given media academics cause for concern.

A recent study by Wanning Sun, a media studies professor at the University of Technology Sydney, found that 56 per cent of Mandarin-speakers in Australia expected to receive most of their information about the parties’ policies via WeChat, mostly through subscriptions to Chinese-language media.

WeChat, owned by web giant Tencent and the world’s top standalone messaging app in terms of number of users, uses algorithms to automatically censor content such as news articles, blog posts, and even chat messages deemed sensitive by Chinese leadership.

With more than 1 million monthly users in Australia, it has become so widely used that both Prime Minister Scott Morrison, the leader of the conservative Liberal Party, and his challenger Bill Shorten, the leader of the centre-left Labor Party, recently joined an effort to engage Mandarin-speaking voters.

Last week, a team of cyber propaganda researchers at the University of Canberra’s Institute for Governance and Policy Analysis released a report that showed 47 of WeChat’s top verified accounts in China – 29 of them aligned with the CCP – had mounted a sustained campaign of negative coverage of Morrison’s government. In February, one post mocked Morrison joining WeChat.

Titled “Cosying up to China? This troublesome country has done a huge about-face”, the post said: “There is a country whose head has been kicked hard by kangaroos and now seeks to cosy up to us.”

Another post on news sites in January scorned the idea of WeChat being used to influence the vote, arguing: “British media said some Australian security experts warn Beijing may use WeChat to spread propaganda to influence the Australian federal elections, but the reasoning appears baseless.”

Another asked: “Will whether Western public opinion is ‘reasonably suspicious’ soon be the basis for judging Chinese creations? Not Huawei, not DaJiang, now the filthy object is WeChat.”

“It’s not like we are talking about a free and open marketplace of ideas in the Chinese community,” said Alex Joske, a researcher at Canberra’s Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

“It’s something where the Chinese Communist Party has really distorted that market and makes sure it has the final say on what kind of content gets disseminated through channels like WeChat.”

“This is a serious confrontation between communist despotism and liberal democracy,” said Feng Chongyi, China studies professor at the University of Technology Sydney, who was detained in China on national security grounds.

The platform’s emergence as a tool for political campaigning has raised concerns about the possibility of Australian politicians becoming influenced by Chinese censorship or disinformation campaigns. The app even became the focus of campaign controversy in recent weeks as each party accused the other of posting doctored content to influence voters.

“It’s very disturbing that you’d have a situation where, in a democracy, Australian politicians are trying to communicate with Australians and they are being directly censored by Beijing,” said Fergus Hanson, the head of the International Cyber Policy Centre at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. But Huaqiao University’s Lin, who is also a member of the advisory committee of the Overseas Chinese Affairs Office of the State Council, said: “We don’t need propaganda, we have to spread true information.

“The hope, on the part of the government as well as overseas Chinese people, is that we have a better relationship between China and the nations where overseas Chinese live.”

FEARS PERSIST

Despite amendments to Australia’s Foreign Influence Transparency Scheme last year requiring entities acting on behalf of foreign powers to register, some still worry that this requirement may not be enough.

Before the scheme was implemented, Kelsey Munro at Sydney’s Lowy Institute wrote in The Interpreter that the event that catalysed the laws – the resignation of a senator who received donations from a China-born billionaire after he espoused Communist-Party-friendly positions – would not have been caught by the new foreign interference regulations.

The regulations make registered entities liable for criminal prosecution if they are found to be interfering in domestic matters.

Yeung Wai-ling, the former head of Chinese studies at Curtin University in Perth, who researches Chinese interference in Australia, said Beijing had increased its influence over Australia’s Chinese diaspora through “dominating the Chinese-language media, taking over traditional community groups and sponsoring new home town associations”.

“The intention is to silence opposition and to garner support for Xi Jinping’s dream of national rejuvenation,” she said, adding that she thought the efforts would fail.

“The Chinese diaspora in Australia is made up of diverse groups of migrants and their descendants,” Yeung said. “Regardless what Beijing says or wants, China does not represent Chinese Australians.”

Some Chinese Australians have decided to fight back with information campaigns of their own.

John Hu, a former Sydney councillor, in 2016 founded the Australian Values Alliance, which actively promotes democracy and has advocated that mainland Chinese students studying even for a short time in Australia should be required to learn about the nation’s guiding principles.

Hu said he had faced pressure from consular officials to cease meeting practitioners of Falun Gong, which China has banned as an “evil cult”.

“I am not their subject,” said Hu, who was born in Shanghai but migrated to Australia in 1990. “They have no authority upon me.”

Some warn the undercurrent of distrust could damage the nation’s economic and diplomatic relationship with China, and question the narrative of pervasive Chinese interference.

Paul Keating, Australia’s prime minister from 1991-1996, courted controversy last week when he claimed the country’s spy agencies were being led by “nutters” who were jeopardising Sino-Australian relations by fixating unnecessarily on Beijing.

The focus on Beijing’s influence on the Chinese diaspora has also created unease among Chinese Australians who claim it inflames historical distrust of China and racism toward Chinese Australians.

On Monday, former foreign minister Bob Carr, who has repeatedly described allegations of Chinese interference as exaggerated, dismissed questions about the loyalty of Chinese Australians as a “collective smear that would not be tolerated for one moment if it were directed at other migrant communities because of pride in their homeland or residual support for a foreign policy position”.

“Australia has a long history of racially motivated policy,” said Erin Chew, co-founder of the Asian Australian Alliance advocacy group.

“A lot of that feeling of the Chinese invading Australia is still there, and mobilised by certain political parties.”

While many among the new wave of Chinese immigrants to Australia used WeChat, Chew added most Chinese Australian voters probably had a broader selection of information sources.

She noted that while Australia’s foreign interference laws were modelled after those in the US – and designed to stop interference by any country – Australians commonly associated the issue with China.

“Australia needs to change its tune about how it views Chinese Australians and being Asian Australian,” she said. “This will take advocacy, and getting more Chinese Australians active in politics.”

It’s not a question of race, obviously. That is a part of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) propaganda. It is a question of how to prevent the CCP from misusing the Chinese diaspora against their home nations because we have an opposing system of liberal democracy that the CCP sees as  a threat.

The best way to do that is keep throwing light upon the CCP’s unholy influence and for our leaders to stop pandering to notions of the CCP’s greatness.

The CCP is not China nor the Chinese. It is a dictatorial regime holding both to ransom.

Comments

    • TighterandTighter

      Come on man
      Kanga kick much more hard than a sleepy panda round house
      No wonder we so dumb

  1. I totally agree. And whenever anyone is critical of the CPC the CPC apologists always scream racist. I lived in a confusion society for 9 years and my home is decorated with Chinese art and furniture. I have a deep admiration for Chinese culture but the CPC is not only “not China” it’s actually a virus infecting the host (China) and trying to transmit itself to other hosts. Unfortunately for us, Australia and New Zealand are clear targets. Unlike the Cold War, in this Cold War 2.0, Australia and New Zealand along with the countries of East Asia, are front-line States.

    I commend MacroBusiness for challenging this, and for challenging Australian (and NZ) corrupt and sycophantic politicians and venal corporate leaders who would sell us out for 30 pieces of silver.

  2. “I am not their subject,” said Hu, who was born in Shanghai but migrated to Australia in 1990. “They have no authority upon me.”

    Good on John Hu. Every Australian citizen who is summonsed to the Chinese embassy, or receives some direction or suggestion from the Chinese embassy should tell them to go and get a big brown dog up ’em.

    • I doubt that he totally disconnected, because, they are known to go after their citizens family, hence they are not really without influence. Just saying what one Chinese guy told me.

      • Yeah, true. “You come to the embassy tomorrow, or your Auntie Wei who lives in Shanghai, we strangle her with piano wire”. That sort of thing would be pretty effective.

      • Unless you couldn’t give two figs about Auntie Wei. 1 child policy means less relatives back home.

      • McPaddyMEMBER

        That is exactly how they operate. Legislature, executive and judiciary of China all work in the service of the CCP.

  3. “The CCP is not China nor the Chinese. It is a dictatorial regime holding both to ransom.”

    well said

  4. Stewie GriffinMEMBER

    “The CCP is not China nor the Chinese”

    It is every bit as Chinese as the Qing Dynasty. The CCP is communist ideology grafted onto the Chinese imperial system.

    Societies are a reflection of the people and culture that give rise to them – take a look around the world at every “Chinese” Democracy – basically a one party state, whose political elite control the party, with “Democracy” existing as little more than in name only.

    Democracy exists as a social construct only in the West, and it existed in the West for one reason and one reason only, when you could be sure that regardless of your political beliefs, your neighbour would still be voting for YOUR communities collective interests and not his clans.

    This social TRUST in democracy does not existing in Multicultural nations because when your neighbour votes you can no longer be sure that he is voting in your interests as an Australian, or for the interests of ‘Chinese Australians’ or for ‘Indian Australian’ (imho there is no such thing as a hyphenated Australian), or for whichever semi-literate middle eastern or African clan we’ve imported here for diversities sake.

    • @Stewie the last paragraph is a real indictment of liberal democracy in a multi-cultural society.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        @Jimsmith76 the willful ignorance of those who sing from the Multicultural song book over these issues are every bit as harmful for the long term interests of our society as the elites who sit atop of our population pyramid and direct the importing and application of these policies.

        It is little more than virtue promotion, with zero personal cost to the promoter and all the benefits of highlighting their apparently more sophisticated and tolerant world view…. a view that only exists or has any credibility by pretending vulgar issues like race, HBD and intractable ethnic and cultural social problems don’t exist or should be assumed away in the economic analysis.

    • “basically a one party state, whose political elite control the party, with “Democracy” existing as little more than in name only.”

      You could almost be describing Australia….

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        No – we operate under the more sophisticated political two party “Duopoly” system ….you see, that makes us twice as free as and twice as democratic as China.

        Running through math with my daughter at the moment, what is Two times nothing….

    • When, for example, you look at the Sunni vs Shia thing, and think that these people have been killing each other in droves for 14 centuries over a slight variation in the same religion, it makes you realise what a catastrophic mistake the whole multicultural thing is. Now we have highly concentrated ethnic ghettoes that are influencing our political system under the control of tyrannical foreign powers.

      In a number of swing seats, including Reid and Banks, in Sydney, and Chisholm, in Melbourne, people who self-identified as having Chinese heritage constituted as much as 20 per cent of the voting population.

      Yeah. Exactly. And it’s a bloody disaster for the rest of the country who don’t have Chinese heritage, and don’t want it.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        The simple truth is this; people generally want to live in their own societies, subject to their own cultural values and use the society that they build and invest in to help perpetuate their own values and culture.

        Multiculturalism is an inherently unstable social policy, that produces sub optimal outcomes for the majority of the population and can only gain a semblance of stability when the cultural differences are buried deeply beneath an economy that is sufficiently wealthy or well resourced to ensure that all the needs of the various competing communities (for that is what they are) operating within it are being met.

        The only people to support it are brainwashed fools and virtue signalling idiots like Denise. No person who thinks about the complete picture in terms of ALL the issues pertaining to Multiculturalism can say it is in any way a positive long term policy for the host population or leads to long term stablility.

        In fact, to the Denises out there, I challenge you to list all the positive benefits of Multiculturalism other than food related or access to more exotic pussy entertainment.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        When, for example, you look at the Sunni vs Shia thing, and think that these people have been killing each other in droves for 14 centuries over a slight variation in the same religion, it makes you realise what a catastrophic mistake the whole multicultural thing is

        Yeah. That would never happen in a civilised western society.

        *cough*The Troubles*cough*

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Do you actually understand that the ‘troubles’ are a direct result of the English importing a culturally distinct group of belligerent Scotsmen, who were prone to rebelling and causing them unending grief in Scotland, into Ireland to assist with their conquest of Ireland through a strategy of divide and conquering nearly 500 years ago?

        Probably not, as you would have realised that it was not a good example for the policies of Multiculturalism that you are advocating for Smiturd – 500 years of division and conflict as a result of importing one ethnically similar, but culturally different group of neighbours from across a small Irish sea….. and yet you think there will be no long term implications of all the cultures that we’re importing, some with enmity and hatred stretching back over a 1000 years?

        Interesting.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Do you actually understand that the ‘troubles’ are a direct result of the English importing a culturally distinct group of belligerent Scotsmen, who were prone to rebelling and causing them unending grief in Scotland, into Ireland to assist with their conquest of Ireland through a strategy of divide and conquering nearly 500 years ago?

        LOL.

        And here I was thinking all that mattered was that they were “white”. “Because white people consistently build societies that other people want to come and live”.

        But then, humpty dumpty, we all know the words you use mean only what you want them to mean at the time.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Culture matters, Smiturd – how many times do I have to say it. They were culturally different yet, ethnicaly similar and it has still resulted in 500 years of conflict (PS: I thought you progressives didn’t believe ‘white’ existed as a race), yet that pales in comparison to the powder keg of potential future conflict we are importing, by way of value cultural diversity.

        The issue isn’t now, it is when the economic tide starts receding:

        Multiculturalism is an inherently unstable social policy, that produces sub optimal outcomes for the majority of the population and can only gain a semblance of stability when the cultural differences are buried deeply beneath an economy that is sufficiently wealthy or well resourced to ensure that all the needs of the various competing communities (for that is what they are) operating within it are being met.

        And yeah, white people have consistently built societies that other people and cultures want to come and live in…. ero, Australia, Canada, US, UK, Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, all of Scandanavia, and Poland and Hungry too, except Eastern Europeans still have the cultural memory of the last time middle eastern multiculturalism was inflicted on them.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        (PS: I thought you progressives didn’t believe ‘white’ existed as a race)

        It’s irrelevant what I “believe” (or even what science says, which is “races” don’t exist). The point is you can’t even remain coherent and consistent within your own narrative without arbitrarily changing the meaning of words to suit whatever argument you’re trying to make at the time.

        But you race supremacists always end up in an argument about who has the purest blood, eventually.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        But you race supremacists always end up in an argument about who has the purest blood, eventually.

        Firstly, that is another straw man argument as I’ve never made any such argument other than point out the reality of Human Bio Diversity.

        Secondly I’m quite happy with the proposition that if you, Dr Smith, got a bad case of jungle fever and absolutely had to bring back you exotic wife from deepest darkest Africa, I would have no problem with you doing so as an individual, and I would be very happy to sit at a table, break bread with her and your mixy kids – indeed I would stand up and defend them against someone who actually taunted them or denigrated them because of their race.

        But treating an individual with respect doesn’t mean you have to ignore the reality of group population differences or consider the implications of large bodies of those people, and the interaction of their cultural values and group intellectual constraints, being imported and interacting with my own society.

        You race idealists always end up with your head stuck in the sand, like an intellectual Ostrich, having faith in the fact that because you can’t see those nasty uncomfortable race facts, they won’t end up devouring you.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Firstly, that is another straw man argument as I’ve never made any such argument other than point out the reality of Human Bio Diversity.

        On more than one occasion when it’s been pointed out that “white culture” is what’s brought the world to the state it’s in today, you’ve retorted with what is effectively “no, I didn’t mean THAT white culture, I meant THIS white culture”.

        So, bullsh!t.

        HBD is just the latest iteration of “racism, because science!”.

        In reality: https://debunkingdenialism.com/2016/04/30/mailbag-modern-high-throughput-genomics-versus-race-realism/

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        “HBD is just the latest iteration of “racism, because science!”.”

        So which is Dr “Can’t make his mind up” Does diversity exist or does it not? HBD is merely acknowledging the genetic diversity across human population groups…. isn’t that what you are all about, diversity? I thought you would be one of the first people to acknowledge it.

        You really are behind the times in the role that genetics plays in both intelligence, behaviours and their influence on the outcomes between population group differences… yes and by that I mean race. Which does exist by the way, why here is an article in the Guardian lamenting the lack of medical research for specific races or whatever ‘double think’ construct it is that you are using at the moment to both accept the existence of genetic differences and deny differences at the same time:

        https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/oct/08/genetics-research-biased-towards-studying-white-europeans

        “On more than one occasion when it’s been pointed out that “white culture” is what’s brought the world to the state it’s in today, you’ve retorted with what is effectively “no, I didn’t mean THAT white culture, I meant THIS white culture”.

        Frankly you are building straw men faster than I can bale them – provide some specific examples or STFU because finding me guilty by conversations that you are making up really is quite tedious.

        BTW – Thank you for your link to an anonymous blog ‘debunking denialism’ in order to support your wako ‘we are all exactly the same but extremely diverse’ double think view points, but I prefer a little more scientific rigour and creditialism behind stuff that I read and take serious (your article was almost as full of straw men as one of your posts, which is why I can see that it appealed to you).

        My person reference is giving credence to my views is built upon the American Psychological Association (APA), and not some anonymous partisan blog.

        The role of genes in regards to the variation in human intelligence has been widely accepted by psychologists since at least 1996, when the report ‘Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns’ was published and Universally endorsed by the American Psychological Association (APA).

        http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdfFiles/IQ_Neisser2.pdf

        On the topic of population group differences and the outcome on IQ it remained “undecided” as the mater had not been “adequately resolved”.

        If you weren’t even aware of this document, it doesn’t surprise me in the least that you haven’t kept up with all the subsequent research that has only further pushed the likelihood on the truth of genetic difference and IQ residing with the views I hold.

        But then I guess that is the problem you suffer from when people like yourself choose to get their information from anonymous blogs, and popular culture figures like Amy Harmon from the New York Times.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        So which is Dr “Can’t make his mind up” Does diversity exist or does it not?

        LOL.

        I’ll take “what is a non-sequitur” for $500, thanks Alex.

        You really are behind the times in the role that genetics plays in both intelligence, behaviours and their influence on the outcomes between population group differences… yes and by that I mean race.

        So, again, other that bigots trying to create racial hierarchies, nobody considers “race” to be useful for anything like what you are using it for (ie: deciding how ‘civilised’ or ‘intelligent’ someone is based on their “race”). Because – as pretty much all the research shows – genetic variations within populations are more significant than those between populations.

        Which does exist by the way, why here is an article in the Guardian lamenting the lack of medical research for specific races or whatever ‘double think’ construct it is that you are using at the moment to both accept the existence of genetic differences and deny differences at the same time:

        An entirely different context.

        Frankly you are building straw men faster than I can bale them – provide some specific examples or STFU because finding me guilty by conversations that you are making up really is quite tedious.

        LOL. From the guy making up basically everything he claims other people have said – and not just specific words, but entire sets of beliefs.

        BTW – Thank you for your link to an anonymous blog ‘debunking denialism’ in order to support your wako ‘we are all exactly the same but extremely diverse’ double think view points, but I prefer a little more scientific rigour and creditialism behind stuff that I read and take serious (your article was almost as full of straw men as one of your posts, which is why I can see that it appealed to you).

        LOL. More complaining about straw men while assigning me views I have never expressed.

        You couldn’t give a sh!t about “scientific rigour and credentialism”. The regurgitation of that IQ comparison above, alone, make that abundantly clear.

        Plenty of references in there if you can be bothered looking. The post is there to provide the explanation of the sources.

        If you wish to refute any of it, knock yourself out.

        My person reference is giving credence to my views is built upon the American Psychological Association (APA), and not some anonymous partisan blog.

        The APA does not agree with your views on race and intelligence, regardless of what you think that particular paper might say. Even a cursory google of ‘American Psychological Association intelligence race’ makes that abundantly clear.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        nobody considers “race” to be useful for anything like what you are using it for (ie: deciding how ‘civilised’ or ‘intelligent’ someone is based on their “race”). Because – as pretty much all the research shows – genetic variations within populations are more significant than those between populations.

        Do you understand the meaning of what you are referring to from a statistical point of view? I sincerly doubt it otherwise you wouldn’t have fallen back on such a rebutted trope.

        Of course there is going to be more diversity within populations than between population groups – we share 98% of the same genome as Chimpanzees, that doesn’t make chimps human. It just means that the differences that do exist between population groups are important .

        An entirely different context. It is EXACTLY the same. You accept that the expression of genetic differences between population groups can result in different metabolic and biologic outcomes, yet you deny that differing distributions of polygenic markers associated with intelligence between different populations, could explain differences in median outcomes for group population IQs – despite all your double think, you can’t have it both ways.

        Plenty of references in there if you can be bothered looking. The post is there to provide the explanation of the sources.

        No there wasn’t – the entire article was ideological clap trap of the highest order and the links were equally dubious.

        It had the air of being written by some 23 year blank slate theorist, which frankly is about as credible as a flat earth theorist.

        The APA does not agree with your views on race and intelligence, regardless of what you think that particular paper might say.

        WRONG!! (again) – the APA Universally endorsed all the views I hold:

        1. IQ is real,
        2. It is measurable;
        3. It is comparable; and
        4. It varies across population groups in this order from Highest to Lowest – East Asian, White, Hispanic, African.

        The ONLY thing they didn’t agree with me yet, were that differences in IQ that have been observed between population groups have a basis in genetic differences – they said it was still an open question when that paper was written. There have been numerous advances in research, especially in regards to polygenic markers, since then subsequently making it more like than not genes are responsible for at least a portion of the differences.

        Yet you cling to your anti-science denialism that requires impossible levels of mental gymnastics to maintain the double think necessary over what do genes influence and what do they not. Pathetic.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Do you understand the meaning of what you are referring to from a statistical point of view? I sincerly doubt it otherwise you wouldn’t have fallen back on such a rebutted trope.

        Sure. It means your argument that the lower races can’t integrate into our society, when our society has zillions of people even dumber than they are, is absurd.

        It means that if the difference of a few dozen IQ points is the difference between civilisation and chaos, then why doesn’t that apply when you go up the race hierarchy as well as down. At least, I’m fairly sure you’re not about to argue that a huge influx of asians into our society would be beneficial because they’ve got higher IQs.

        I’d be willing to bet you think China could be improved if it had a bit more “white culture”, as well.

        It is EXACTLY the same.

        No, it’s not.

        There are known genetic links with some medical conditions.

        There’s no known genetic link with civilisation.

        No there wasn’t – the entire article was ideological clap trap of the highest order and the links were equally dubious.

        Truly a comprehensive rebuttal.

        WRONG!! (again) – the APA Universally endorsed all the views I hold:

        No it doesn’t.

        The APA does not think IQ tests are (or can be) culturally neutral.
        The APA does not think IQ is driven primarily by genetics.
        The APA does not think IQ is destiny.
        The APA does not think some races are incapable of being civilised.
        The APA does not think we should be making immigration decisions about individuals based on IQ scores made up, or derived from flawed and discredited research, for their race.

        About the only one of your views the APA does hold is that there a level of genetic influence on an individual’s IQ. Which is not in dispute.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Sure. It means your argument that the lower races can’t integrate into our society, when our society has zillions of people even dumber than they are, is absurd.

        …and there we have your true nature revealed – contempt for people who are ‘dumber’ in YOUR society than yourself. Who do you think those Africans we will be letting in will be competing for services? Who will be competing with Africans for housing, dumb Australians. But you, smart basturd thanks to your genes, couldn’t care less about your people.

        I have plenty of concerns about letting in too many Asians, but the social issues that letting a horde of high IQ Asians into Australia is completely different to issue of letting in a horde of Africans and turn our nation into another failed African state.

        There’s no known genetic link with civilisation.

        But there is a genetic link with the quality of civilisation produced – Zimbabwe vs Korean. Take your pic. Largest most continuously inhabited landmass on earth and Africa has been unable to sustain a Sub-Saharan civilization that has lasted longer than which ever freak of nature African ‘big man’ had enough an IQ to cobble it together in the first place. Berliz is about the only such mentionable nation state, and it offered no higher quality of life for more than a hundred years than what peasants in the UK enjoyed for a thousand.

        Because you can’t make an arguement without twisting and hallucinating over what someone with opposing views holds to you, let me re-iterate what the APA does universally endorse:

        1. IQ is real,
        2. It is measurable;
        3. It is comparable; and
        4. It varies across population groups in this order from Highest to Lowest – East Asian, White, Hispanic, African.

        Building straw men to cut down is the only victory you are ever likely to have.

        Truly a comprehensive rebuttal.

        No it was not – it was absolute clap trap. An anonymous blog that was filled with fallacies like:

        “nobody considers “race” to be useful for anything like what you are using it for (ie: deciding how ‘civilised’ or ‘intelligent’ someone is based on their “race”). Because – as pretty much all the research shows – genetic variations within populations are more significant than those between populations.”

        Since you are so IGNORANT this is revered to as the Lewontin Fallacy, and it arises by comparing the AVERAGES between two distinct populations. It is like saying the level of diversity in the male population is far greater than the level of diversity between the male and female population, so therefore, males the differences between males and females must be irrelevant.

        Moronic – but then it explains why you latched onto it.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        …and there we have your true nature revealed – contempt for people who are ‘dumber’ in YOUR society than yourself.

        LOL. That’s some impressive mental gymnastics right there.

        I’m beginning to think you genuinely don’t understand the implications of following through the reasoning in the rhetoric you are repeating.

        Since you seem to have forgotten, you are the one arguing people under a particular IQ are too dumb to be civilised, not me.

        But there is a genetic link with the quality of civilisation produced […]

        No, there’s not.

        Since you are so IGNORANT this is revered to as the Lewontin Fallacy, and it arises by comparing the AVERAGES between two distinct populations. It is like saying the level of diversity in the male population is far greater than the level of diversity between the male and female population, so therefore, males the differences between males and females must be irrelevant.

        What’s entertaining is the comments under that article is somebody who has obviously been reading the same race realist HBD manual you have, raising almost identical arguments, and the writer calmly and clearly explaining why they are wrong.

        Oh, look, there’s even:

        A common response by race realists is not to rebut the evidence, but to make the “Lewontin fallacy” accusation. This, however, is a distraction. Lewontin originally looked at a single locus and that was a major limitation, but modern research has validated his conclusions that most variation occurs within groups. None of the modern data is based on the Lewontin study design. There is more to read about this race realist distraction in Fetishizing Richard Lewontin.

        Because you can’t make an arguement without twisting and hallucinating over what someone with opposing views holds to you, let me re-iterate what the APA does universally endorse:

        Since you keep ignoring the point, let me re-iterate: the APA does not endorse any of the conclusions you draw.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        “Since you seem to have forgotten, you are the one arguing people under a particular IQ are too dumb to be civilised, not me.”

        Nope, that is not what I said – I said some population groups median IQ is too low to sustain complex societies, which is why, like South Africa and every other Sub-Sarahan nation, they decay back to the base level of civilization/organisation that their population can support (which in many cases the can only achieve through the assistance of vast amounts of foriegn aid).

        All societies will have dumb people in them, we have you for instance. Fortunately the occurance of DrSmith’s are low enough in our society that it doesn’t pull down our mean IQ’s low enough to impact our societies ability to meet the needs of its members.

        What’s entertaining is the comments under that article

        Which article the one I did not link OR the one that you imagined?

        most variation occurs within groups.

        You really don’t do a good job paying attention do you, I’m am not denying that the largest amount of diversity occurs within groups, it is the issue of WHERE THOSE DIFFERENCES OCCUR and the DISTRIBUTION AND FREQUENCY of those differences within the group, for instance the same polygenic markers are present in ALL human populations, but in different proportions and frequencies.

        Of all the ‘human’ genes in us, only around 6% account for racial characteristics is unique to each group (which is what Lewontin was arguing when he said race was meaningless) but:

        We share 98% of the same genes as Chimpanzees so IT IS THE DIFFERENCES THAT ARE IMPORTANT.

        Secondly, and it is the Frequency and Distribution of those shared genes that is also equally important:

        it is nonetheless possible to classify individuals into different racial groups with an accuracy that approaches 100 percent when one takes into account the frequency of the alleles at several loci at the same time. This happens because differences in the frequency of alleles at different loci are correlated across populations—the alleles that are more frequent in a population at two or more loci are correlated when we consider the two populations simultaneously. Or in other words, the frequency of the alleles tends to cluster differently for different populations.”

        Lewton’s assertion remains a fallacy on a polygenic basis.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Nope, that is not what I said – I said some population groups median IQ is too low to sustain complex societies, […]

        “I didn’t say people under a particular IQ are too dumb to be civilised, I said some people with too low an IQ can’t sustain complex societies”.

        Strangely, when those population groups are white and their median IQ is too low, they get a pass.

        We share 98% of the same genes as Chimpanzees so IT IS THE DIFFERENCES THAT ARE IMPORTANT.

        Oh, look, like I said, exactly the same argument. Looks like a lot of people are reading the same manual !

        https://debunkingdenialism.com/2016/04/30/mailbag-modern-high-throughput-genomics-versus-race-realism/

        Firstly, I am a confused about the implications of Rosenberg’s and Li’s research about how 84.7%-95% of human genetic variation occurs within populations. Why does this fact refute race realism? I thought humans and chimpanzees share 98.8% of their genes, and yet humans are much smarter than chimpanzees. Even if whites and blacks share ~90% of their genes, why can’t the remaining ~10% of genes explain racial differences in intelligence and athletics? Is it because the between population genetic variation is only for genes that affect skin color, hair texture, etc.?

        This is a really good question. It turns out that it boils down to the difference between genes and alleles. A gene is, to put it simply, some bits of DNA that code for a functional product (such as a protein). An allele is a variation of a particular genes.

        For humans and chimpanzees, the genetic difference is about ~1% when it comes to single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs). A SNP is a place in the genome where e. g. the average human might have a T nucleotide, whereas the average chimp might have an A. There are also some insertions and deletions (i.e. segments that humans but not chimps have, and vice versa) that changes this figure slightly, but let us focus on the 1% SNP rate.

        If we look at the corresponding difference between any two randomly selected humans, this is ~0.1% (or 1 in 1000). A lot of this variation occurs in regions of the genomes that does not have any genes or regulatory elements and thus does not have any effect on any biological function or how we look. Again, if we look at things that are not SNPs, such as copy number variations (i.e. some humans can have two copies of a given gene, others can have only one. or three etc.), the figure is larger, but let us focus on SNPs.

        So your human-chimp figure you mentioned of 98.8% is for SNPs between humans and chimps. The cited figure of 84.7%-95%, on the other hand, is 84.7%-95% out of this 0.1% SNPs between any two humans.

        So roughly 95% of all SNPs between humans (0.1%) are between individuals, not groups. So the variation that are not between individuals is thus somewhere around 0.05*0.001 = 0.00005 or 0.005% or 1 in 20000 nucleotide bases. This is likely an overestimation, because humans can differ due to being different populations within the same continental group as well.

        So to sum up,

        (1) the vast majority of genetic differences occur between individuals,
        (2) the genetic difference between groups is so very small,
        (3) human genetic variation is mostly continuous across the globe rather than in discrete groups,
        (4) genes that have recently undergone differential positive selection have more to do with immune system function, metabolism and superficial morphological traits etc. than with functions suggested by race realists (such as intelligence or athletic ability)

        If race realism was valid, we would expect to see a large portion of the human genetic diversity to be between groups and not between individuals, human genetic variation would not be mostly continuous across the global and there should be dozens and dozens of genes that have undergone recent positive selection that relate to those features that race realists think differ among groups, such as intelligence and athletic ability.

        Taken together, these data are very different from what we would expect to see if race realism was valid. Thus, the available evidence is simply not consistent with race realism.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        LOL – more of your anonymous garbage anti-science site

        (1) the vast majority of genetic differences occur between individuals,
        Not in dispute

        (2) the genetic difference between groups is so very small,
        Not in dispute

        (3) human genetic variation is mostly continuous across the globe rather than in discrete groups,
        This is only true in regards to the measurement of variation across common alleles – it does not mean that the differences that are present between population groups do not matter.

        While the genetic code and variation is overall fairly uniform, this is not the same as saying you cannot tell a persons race by examining their DNA and the frequency of the alleles present.

        The author dismisses the importance of the distribution and frequency of alleles associated with race, as being inconsequential, by saying the since the individual variation is greater, any residual variance by population group must be inconsequential in comparison- they’re not.

        African’s have far more diversity, being far longer settled in one location than most other population groups around the world – yet for all that diversity, not one group has blonde hair, red hair, or blue eyes or green eyes. All that diversity and not at all present – those differences, few that they are, matter. And if they matter enough to effect eye colour and hair colour, then they mater enough to effect the distribution and frequency of genes associated with IQ.

        (4) genes that have recently undergone differential positive selection have more to do with immune system function, metabolism and superficial morphological traits etc. than with functions suggested by race realists (such as intelligence or athletic ability)

        The author is selectively choosing to acknowledge that genes impact only those areas which agrees with his views. There has also been significant advances in polygenic mapping of genes associated with IQ and the variance and frequency of those alleles broadly correspond with the distribution of perceived IQ characteristics of various races.

        All advances and research that support the notion that humanity is anything other than a single blend, that can only be separately defined by a few isolated metabolic functions, is dismissed as quackery by this HBD denier.

        Dismissal does not equal proof.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Still a feckless incel Denise?

        “Btw, where did humanity spring from?”

        Humanity sprang from Africa – and once it burst forth it NEVER looked back, as it then set forth and merged and hybridised itself with various other humanoid populations around the planet.

        Now take a look at the various population groups around the world and the various societies and civilizations they produced and guess which population group lack any Neanderthal genes in their genome?

        Using your reasoning maybe we should priortise Chimpanzee immigration Denise – because you know, humanity evolved from monkeys.

      • Themes of tribalism and high trust versus low trust societal development based on environmental factors are all pretty mainstream. Dismissing it as “white man crap” is easy and completely unconvincing. The “racist” argument, if you want to call it that, is discredited and no longer has any effect.

        I’d be interested in a counter argument that demonstrates the benefits of multiculturalism, mass immigration and ghetto development from these societies, because I can’t think of one. Another argument enumerating the beneficial effects of CCP influence in Australian society and politics would be a big help too.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Wasted breath LSWCHP – Denise is a cultural barbarian, a civilized individual whose been cut off from his cultural roots and who floats along in the misma of a society filled with competing cultural values.

        He’s been subject to unending hours of indoctrination at school that our values are now about accepting everyone’s values, in other words, by attempting to stand for everything you ultimately stand for nothing. He is a product of both a public education influenced by the think tanks of perfidious businessmen and a corrupted society that has elevated the rights of the individual above the responsibilities of the individual towards an interdependent society.

        Quite simply (and ironically given his support for diversity), his mind is closed to the possibility that HBD could possibly result in diverse behaviours and values among different population groups, that are toxic for the societies and cultures of differing population groups.

        Basically Dennis is your typical NPC.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        I’d be interested in a counter argument that demonstrates the benefits of multiculturalism, mass immigration and ghetto development from these societies, because I can’t think of one.

        I know moderate scenarios are nearly impossible for conservatives to grasp, but there is a vast middle ground between your straw man and your white supremacist fantasies.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Than list the benefits you feckless wonder. Try to listing those benefits and maybe even constructing an arguement instead of lame ad hominems.

        LIST THEM.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Try to listing those benefits and maybe even constructing an arguement instead of lame ad hominems.

        LOL. The guy whose posts are 90% sermons to the faithful and 10% lame ad hominem, attacking others for it.

        Multiculturalism has been the natural state of most human societies for millennia.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        I provide a reasoned arguement and links, which are generally wasted on your because they conflict with your secular faith.

        LIST THEM.

        Can’t can you, you moralising bag of nothing.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        There are no links on this page and your “reasoned arguments” are just grab bags of projection, cognitive bias, fallacies and junk science.

        LIST THEM

        What’s that term that’s been floating around the UK for a while now ? Ah, yes: “Gammon”.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Com’on Smiturd – you are such a big proponent of Multiculturalism and ethnic diversity, list them – list all the benefits.

        LIST THEM !

        This isn’t MY junk science I’m asking you to list, it is YOUR junk science I’m asking you to list. List all the benefits of Multiculturalism and diversity

        LIST THEM !!

        PS: Gammon is simply another ad hominem. Strawmen and ad hominems is all you’ve contributed to this discussion so far.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        “There are no links on this page and your “reasoned arguments” are just grab bags of projection, cognitive bias, fallacies and junk science.”

        Mate, you really are behind the times in the role that genetics plays in both intelligence, behaviours and their influence on the outcomes between population group differences (race).

        The contribution of genes to variation in human intelligence has been widely accepted by psychologists since at least 1996, when the report ‘Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns’ was published and Universally endorsed by the American Psychological Association (APA).

        http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdfFiles/IQ_Neisser2.pdf

        On the topic of population group differences and the outcome on IQ it remained “undecided” as the mater had not been “adequately resolved”.

        If you weren’t even aware of this document, it doesn’t surprise me in the least that you haven’t kept up with all the subsequent research that has only further trimmed the likelihood lying in the views I favour – but then I guess that is the problem you suffer from when people like yourself choose to get their information from popular culture figures like Amy Harmon.

    • Stewie,

      You’re a whiney white loser, here EVERY day of the week moaning how hard down by you are. Everything bad in your life is the responsibility of someone else.

      You missed your time, you should have been in Nazi Germany, by the side of Mengele’s.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Denise you insufferable cultural eunuch – i don’t think I’ve encountered someone filled with more self hatred than yourself. You’re MacroBusiness’s very own Theon Greyjoy.

        I don’t think I’ve ever lamented how hard my life is, or how poor I am, on the contrary I’m doing very well for myself due in no small part to the one privilege that I was born with – IQ.

        What have repeatedly lamented and pointed out is the direction Australia and Australian culture is headed, how our society and nation is being stolen from us, how the future is likely to be increasingly grim and filled with conflict as different people and cultures seek to project themselves forward and come into conflict with my and my children’s values.

        There have been countless philosophers who’ve considered the issues around what constitutes a stable and productive society, best capable at meeting the needs of it members and they have generally recognised the very concerns that I’ve raised.

        And then there’s you, indignant man child with zero life experience, who says “No you are all wrong. If it weren’t for white people the world would be a peaceful harmonious place.”

        You pathetic, feckless twerp. History is filled with people like you too, Neville Chamberlain is someone who comes instantly to mind. There will be peace in our time, so long as we are happy to continue to roll over and let anyone who wants a piece of what we’ve got, come along and fcuk us in the arse.

    • You’d know all about taking it in the @rse, Stewie.

      I have none of the angst about my “culture” as you presume, but I also don’t have any of the white superiority beliefs that you cling to like Linus and his blankie.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Of course you’re not going to have any hang ups about ‘your’ culture – you have none. You’re a cultural-less barbarian.

        BTW – the only reason that I think we’re superior is because white people consistently build societies that other people want to come and live but… living among white people isn’t a human right.

    • drsmithyMEMBER

      This social TRUST in democracy does not existing in Multicultural nations […]

      Meanwhile, over here in reality, the country generally considered the modern history benchmark of democracy was – and remains – a massive melting pot of multiculturalism.

      Heck, let’s look at Switzerland, probably the only genuine democracy on the planet – 4 distinctly different cultures, subcultures within those, plus a massive contigent of permanent foreigners in the country.

      But that lack of connection to reality is pretty consistent across pretty much everything you wax lyrical about. A figleaf of fallacies and junk science over your raging bigotry boner.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        You must have missed my post the other day:

        “To have a well run democracy requires that the people who sustain it, to have shared values stemming from a common culture, in order to agree upon solutions to solving economic and social problems AND a minimum intellectual capability among the general populous to comprehend the benefits of mutual sacrifice in order to build a better tomorrow, as opposed to the immediate satisfaction of life style needs.

        Which covers off your Switzerland outlier….. which it is.

        A figleaf of fallacies and junk science over your raging bigotry boner.

        The science is solid, it is cutting edge which probably explains half the reason why you haven’t come across it (the other half being it is around ‘naughty thinking’ the contemplation of which would require you to go off to the sauna to thrash birch strips across your back to purge that wrong thing from you).

        Systemic IQ differences between different population groups explains more about how the world is today, than imagine social constructs like racism. If you removed every white person from the world, than the rest of the world would still be just as shyt today and likely twice as crappola tomorrow.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Which covers off your Switzerland outlier….. which it is.

        Switzerland is an outlier because it’s got proper democracy, not because of your laughable ideas about “intellectual capability”.

        But that’s not going to even enter the mind for someone whose worldview is fundamentally and structurally opposed to the enlightenment concepts underpinning properly functioning democracy. Can’t let those ‘low intellectual capability’ peeps getting a say in how their betters run the place. The lower classes should just accept their lot and do what they’re told.

        The science is solid, […]

        No it’s not. For a start, the IQ measures you use to condemn half the people on the planet to inferior subhuman status are mostly made up.

        Your position is ultimately that you can’t take someone who isn’t white, and teach them to be white. I invite readers to come up with their own examples of people who aren’t white but manage to be compatible with “white culture”.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Hey Genius, the reason Switzerland’s democracy works so well is that it is actually divided into various Cantons that mirror the ethnic and cultural diversity that you pointed out, and operate with an enormous amount of independence. The IQ of its population also sits above the median 100 for most of ‘white’ nations.

        “Can’t let those ‘low intellectual capability’ peeps getting a say in how their betters run the place. The lower classes should just accept their lot and do what they’re told.”

        – Strawman argument that you are so fond of. There will always be a range of people in any society that have lower than median IQs, this is quite different from mass importing a significant body of people whose median IQ is already well below our own nations average. IQ is one of a reasons the “enlightenment” occurred in Europe and not Africa.

        No it’s not. For a start, the IQ measures you use to condemn half the people on the planet to inferior subhuman status are mostly made up.

        – again ANOTHER strawman arguement. I never said that they are sub-human, I said they have a different level of intellectual capabilities, like Africans have a different level of physical capabilities on the track and field.

        Filling Australia with Africans, say would simply mean you’d turn Australia and the society it houses into another African state – just like South Africa is becoming. Societies are a reflection of the people and cultures who built them, and intellectual capabilities are definitely reflected in the quality of the societies produced.

        IQ is one of the most tested psychological traits established in the sociological sciences, it produces consistently comparable results between ethnicity across population groups through out the world. eg Tested IQs of Somalians living in Somalis are around 67. Tested IQ of Somanlians living in Israel, completely different nation and culture, are around 68.

        Your position is ultimately that you can’t take someone who isn’t white, and teach them to be white.

        No my position is you cannot take a large culturally distinct population, plonk them down in the middle of a white country, and expect them be and behave in the same fashion as the ‘white’ population.
        There are undoubtedly multiple examples where individuals from different cultures choose to leave their own society, people and culture and integrate into white society, marry and have kids – great. But that is a whole different kettle of fish than the mass importation of different people and cultures and the social policy of Multiculturalism.

        Adoption and twin studies have consistently shown that genes play a larger role in peoples political (cultural) values than environment (families). There is very little correlation between political beliefs of adopted children vs parents, compared to natural born children to their parents – in fact over time the relationship gets stronger, the more like your parents values you become, showing that while environment may influence the starting position, genetics influence were you end up.

        https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/09/study-on-twins-suggests-our-political-beliefs-may-be-hard-wired/

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Hey Genius, the reason Switzerland’s democracy works so well is that it is actually divided into various Cantons that mirror the ethnic and cultural diversity that you pointed out, and operate with an enormous amount of independence.

        LOL. It’s hilarious how on the one hand, you’ll argue that culturally distinct groupings within a country are disastrous for its “social cohesion”, then on the other arguing one reason a particular country functions so well is because people cluster together into distinct groups of cultural similar.

        – Strawman argument that you are so fond of. There will always be a range of people in any society that have lower than median IQs, this is quite different from mass importing a significant body of people whose median IQ is already well below our own nations average. IQ is one of a reasons the “enlightenment” occurred in Europe and not Africa.

        Nothing in that barely coherent paragraph is relevant to what I wrote.

        I never said that they are sub-human, I said they have a different level of intellectual capabilities, like Africans have a different level of physical capabilities on the track and field.

        You are making an argument establishing a race hierarchy. You are making an argument only peoples a certain level up that heirarchy are able to be civilised. You want to judge individuals based on group characteristics. You condone (indeed, advocate IIRC) the conquering of peoples lower on the hierarchy by peoples higher.

        Let’s not quibble over the semantics of a few words because they’re ugly.

        Filling Australia with Africans, […]

        For someone who gets antsy about straw men, you sure do love to roll ’em out.

        IQ is one of the most tested psychological traits established in the sociological sciences, it produces consistently comparable results between ethnicity across population groups through out the world. eg Tested IQs of Somalians living in Somalis are around 67. Tested IQ of Somanlians living in Israel, completely different nation and culture, are around 68.

        No it doesn’t, which is why nobody except race supremacists like Richard Lynn (where I’m going to guess those numbers are coming from, since they’re the ones from his thoroughly discredited “research”) trying to establish race hierarchies to scientifically justify racism and bigotry, make the arguments you are making.

        The Flynn effect basically invalidates your position, anyway.

        https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/09/study-on-twins-suggests-our-political-beliefs-may-be-hard-wired/

        Two cautions: The authors note the MTR sample of twins is not representative of the country as a whole—“it is middle-aged, overwhelmingly white, and geographically concentrated in the Midwest,” they write. And when it comes to political attitudes, genes are not destiny. Upbringing and unique factors and experiences interact with genes or combinations of genes to shape whether someone is a political liberal or conservative, votes in every election or isn’t registered to vote, or supports Obamacare or the Tea Party.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        “It’s hilarious how on the one hand, you’ll argue that culturally distinct groupings within a country are disastrous for its “social cohesion”, then on the other arguing one reason a particular country functions so well is because people cluster together into distinct groups of cultural similar.”

        No I’m once again proving you wrong – you sighted Switzerland as a functioning multicultural state democratic state. I agreed – but pointed out i) that it is an exception rather than the rule; and ii) when you examine it closer, Switzerland as a construct more closely resembles a Federation comprised of ethnically different Cantons coming together for mutual defence and choosing to operate broadly within the same economic structure and currency, but other than that are effectively seperate mini-nation states.

        Is that what you propose Australia model itself of on? Maybe we could have Indian-Australian Canton based around Melbourne, Chinese-Australian Canton based around Sydney and Bogon-Australian Canton based around Brisbane?

        You are making an argument establishing a race hierarchy. You are making an argument only peoples a certain level up that heirarchy are able to be civilised. You want to judge individuals based on group characteristics. You condone (indeed, advocate IIRC) the conquering of peoples lower on the hierarchy by peoples higher.

        I’m doing NOTHING of the sort, I’m establishing that there are racial differences that are expressed in terms of HBD outcomes. I also further assert that the transportation and importation of significant populations of people from different population groups, will radically affect our society and social cohesion and will significantly amplify many social problems, not to mention create many new ones that previously didn’t exist – eg African gangs didn’t exist a social issue in the 1980s because hadn’t been imported yet.

        I’m stating that the pre-existing society of Australians have every right to resist the mass migration of population groups from different parts of the world, which will adversely impact the quality of life of existing Australians, through the deleterious structural impact that lower IQ’s and incompatible cultural values, will have on our societies ability to meet and satisfy its own wants and needs.

        Me: IQ is one of the most tested psychological traits established in the sociological sciences…
        You: No it doesn’t, which is why nobody except race supremacists like Richard Lynn…”

        Errr sorry to intrude on your fantasy, but once again IQ has been established as one of the most concrete, testable and replicatable sociological phenomena, by no other than the American Psychological Association (APA).

        http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdfFiles/IQ_Neisser2.pdf

        BTW – The Flynn effect is already reversing and breaking down in numerous nations, eg Sweden, as based around standardised IQ testing for entry into the Swedish armed forces. In the US it is estimated that IQ is now declining by around 2.3 points per decade.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        No I’m once again proving you wrong – you sighted Switzerland as a functioning multicultural state democratic state. I agreed – but pointed out i) that it is an exception rather than the rule; and ii) when you examine it closer, Switzerland as a construct more closely resembles a Federation comprised of ethnically different Cantons coming together for mutual defence and choosing to operate broadly within the same economic structure and currency, but other than that are effectively seperate mini-nation states.

        That’s not what Switzerland is (I’ve actually lived there), they all consider themselves Swiss.

        Every western society is an example of a functioning multicultural democracy (to varying degrees of democracy, at least for now).

        I’m doing NOTHING of the sort, […]

        Yes, you are. It is EXACTLY what you are doing every time you argue that Africans are incapable of civilised society, or any other attempts to assign humans into a D&D-esque character chart. The ONLY POINT of what you are doing, is to be able to classify and dictate different rights to people based on your superficial classification of their race’s character and capabilities.

        Where this line of thinking inevitably ends up, as I said earlier, is arguments (if not wars) over what constitutes a pure enough genetic stock to be worthy of inclusion.

        BTW – The Flynn effect is already reversing and breaking down in numerous nations, eg Sweden, as based around standardised IQ testing for entry into the Swedish armed forces. In the US it is estimated that IQ is now declining by around 2.3 points per decade.

        The point is that it contradicts your position that genetics plays any meaningful part in the differences you cite. When IQ scores are moving 8 points in a decade (as they did in some northern european countries), and the improvement is happening across the entire world, genetics ain’t involved in any meaningful way.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        That’s not what Switzerland is (I’ve actually lived there), they all consider themselves Swiss.

        Yes that is what Switzerland is, it is an accurate description of their economy and political Canton structure, I lived in Europe and knew many Swiss. Their official form of Govt is described as a Confederation, which if you knew about political systems is probably one of the loosest, least binding forms of statehood there is.

        At NO point did I say that considered themselves to or citizens in neighbouring Cantons, not to be Swiss, in the same way I would not say that French would not consider Germans to be European. That is just plain stupid and typical in how you hallucinate over stuff that I write seeing BS that quite frankly isn’t there.

        Africans are incapable of civilised society
        You tell me – Democratic Congo, granted independence in 1960 with more infrastructure than any other African nation at the time vs Korea, which had just been bombed back to the stone age for 3 years. How about Rodeshia? How about South Africa’s gradual transformation from a nation that offered a compatible way of life to Australia, NZ, Canada and the UK, back into you typical corrupt, dysfunctional African nation. Africans turn nations into Africa.

        At no point have I said I dislike Africans, I have only ever said I do not want to live in a society filled with a significant portion of Africans, because EVERYWHERE in the world they turn it into a piece of Africa, be it Cape Town or Detroit or outer Melbourne.

        Where this line of thinking inevitably ends up, as I said earlier, is arguments (if not wars) over what constitutes a pure enough genetic stock to be worthy of inclusion.

        That is complete BS and fear mongering – have you denounced socialism because elements of that ideology got mixed up in the murderous communist attrocities of Mao and Stalin. Of course not.

        NOT discussing these issues can be just as harmful and destructive to societies and peoples lives as nations are transformed into dysfunctional failed states, incapable of adequately meeting the needs of it citizens.

        The point is that it contradicts your position that genetics plays any meaningful part in the differences you cite. When IQ scores are moving 8 points in a decade (as they did in some northern european countries), and the improvement is happening across the entire world, genetics ain’t involved in any meaningful way.

        What a load of garbage – the existence of the Flynn effect doesn’t invalidate IQ or the possibility that genetics are not involved in a meaningful way, because guess what, despite IQ points moving 8 points across Northern European nations, THE RELATIVE GAP between racial IQ achievement, as endorsed by the American Psychological Association remains.

        The Flynn effect is statistical anomaly that likely resides in the interplay between the our increasingly problem solving focused stimulatory environment and the nature of IQ tests and the problem solving that they are testing for.

        We know IQs haven’t been rising 8 points every 10 years, because of the distribution of geniuses has remained constant. Our normally distributed IQ Bell curves would be becoming skewed as the growth in geniuses pulled the Bell curve to the right. This has not been happening.

        Eisenstein had an IQ estimated at over +160. Someone with an IQ of +160 is 4 to 5 standard deviations in occurrence in a normal population i.e. 1 in 100,000 to 250,000 more likely a result of the greater a function of change environment vs the nature of the IQ tests.

        If we had been actually getting smarter, then the world would have been producing more Einsteins every year (including Haiti and South Africa), each an every year more profound discoveries on par with Einsteins theory of Relativity would be being discovered or conjectured. Fact is – they haven’t.

        The Flynn effect had been known about for a long time by all those involved in the study of IQ as a statistical anomaly most likely connected environment and subject matter being tested.

        It was never really an issue until anti-science types like yourself, with ZERO understanding of statistics (as your earlier comment on genetic difference in and between population groups showed) started using it to try and discredit relationships between genes and IQ. You are just using the Flynn effect as another tired, old, discredited anti-science trope.

        Laughable really when you think that the reason we are sitting here typing these comments to each other is because of the intelligence encoded into our genes, which according to you is for some reason is universally constant amongst all human population groups, despite all the rich variety of diversity in nearly every other human characteristic, behaviour and trait.

        Maybe you should have some T shirts printed?

        GENES – RESPONSIBLE FOR THE AMAZING VARIATION OF WHO WE ARE*
        (Disclaimer: *except intelligence which is universally constant)

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Yes that is what Switzerland is, it is an accurate description of their economy and political Canton structure, I lived in Europe and knew many Swiss. Their official form of Govt is described as a Confederation, which if you knew about political systems is probably one of the loosest, least binding forms of statehood there is.

        LOL. Suddenly it’s about “economy” and “political structure”, not culture.

        Do you ever get tired moving those goalposts around ? Maybe we need to start calling you the groundskeeper.

        I lived in Zurich for a couple of years and came very close to settling there permanently. I reckon I’ve got a rough idea what the place is like.

        At NO point did I say that considered themselves to or citizens in neighbouring Cantons, not to be Swiss, in the same way I would not say that French would not consider Germans to be European. That is just plain stupid and typical in how you hallucinate over stuff that I write seeing BS that quite frankly isn’t there.

        Your actual argument, which you seem to have “forgotten”, was the multiple different cultures can’t coexist together. Though, to be fair, given your definition of “culture” seems to be whatever it needs to be at the time to support your argument, that could mean anything.

        Africans turn nations into Africa.

        Which is, of course, why all those civilised and prosperous Africans living in America, or the UK, or indeed even Africa, are figments of everyone’s imagination.

        That is complete BS and fear mongering – have you denounced socialism because elements of that ideology got mixed up in the murderous communist attrocities of Mao and Stalin. Of course not.

        LOL. Because simply ignoring bad ideas is somehow comparable to genetic determinism.

        NOT discussing these issues can be just as harmful and destructive to societies and peoples lives as nations are transformed into dysfunctional failed states, incapable of adequately meeting the needs of it citizens.

        LOL. Of all the things that cause failed states, IQ wouldn’t even make a rounding error.

        What a load of garbage – the existence of the Flynn effect doesn’t invalidate IQ or the possibility that genetics are not involved in a meaningful way […]

        Uh huh. So how are genetics going to change IQ scores in half a generation ? If all races are improving at roughly the same rate, how can genetics be playing a part ? If IQs can improve by as much as the difference between races in a decade or two, how can you possibly claim it’s impossible for the lower races to every improve enough ?

        The Flynn effect is statistical anomaly that likely resides in the interplay between the our increasingly problem solving focused stimulatory environment and the nature of IQ tests and the problem solving that they are testing for.

        […]

        The Flynn effect had been known about for a long time by all those involved in the study of IQ as a statistical anomaly most likely connected environment and subject matter being tested.

        LOL. In other words IQ tests don’t support your argument because their results demonstrably change significantly, independently of genetics.

        If we had been actually getting smarter, then the world would have been producing more Einsteins every year (including Haiti and South Africa), each an every year more profound discoveries on par with Einsteins theory of Relativity would be being discovered or conjectured. Fact is – they haven’t.

        Indeed. So maybe you need to reflect a bit more about what IQ tests are actually reporting vis a vis “intelligence”.

        Laughable really when you think that the reason we are sitting here typing these comments to each other is because of the intelligence encoded into our genes, which according to you is for some reason is universally constant amongst all human population groups, despite all the rich variety of diversity in nearly every other human characteristic, behaviour and trait.

        Keep slaying those straw men.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Since this post is still with the moderators, I’ll do my own editing to see if can get past the filter. Edit: Cool it passed. Getting much easier to identify naughty words.

        LOL. Suddenly it’s about “economy” and “political structure”, not culture.

        Smiturd – you do realise that “economy” and “political structure” are a reflection of “Culture” ? Probably not otherwise you wouldn’t have written such a plainly obtuse statement. I’m not moving the goal posts around, because they are the same goal posts, you are just too thick to realise the game being played on the field is much bigger than your narrow mind can comprehend.

        Your actual argument, which you seem to have “forgotten”, was the multiple different cultures can’t coexist together. Though, to be fair, given your definition of “culture” seems to be whatever it needs to be at the time to support your argument, that could mean anything.

        Let’s take a look at what I said :

        “This social TRUST in democracy does not existing in Multicultural nations because when your neighbour votes you can no longer be sure that he is voting in your interests as an Australian, or for the interests of ‘Chinese Australians’ or for ‘Indian Australian’ (imho there is no such thing as a hyphenated Australian), or for whichever semi-literate middle eastern or African clan we’ve imported here for diversities sake.”

        And in reply to that statement you gave me “Switzerland” – a High IQ society that is composed of several marginally ethnically and culturally separate Cantons, but who are all still European and Christian, and you think that is a comparative example to say why it will be no problem for Australia’s democracy if we have Indian-Australia canton in Melbourne, Asian-Australian canton in Sydney and Bogon-Aust canton in Brisbane.

        Yeah, right.

        Which is, of course, why all those civilised and prosperous Africans living in America, or the UK, or indeed even Africa, are figments of everyone’s imagination.

        Another strawmay, I never said individuals weren’t capable of living in civilized society….so long as they are surrounded by a sufficient number of white people to keep those nations states running, to continue providing the taxes and the services and institutions – sure Africans can inhabit those spaces with a minimum of trouble….. so long as you exclude the fact that nearly all the knife crime in London is committed by African males, and that most of the gun deaths in the US are committed by Africans (usually on other Africans) and that if you break gun deaths down by demographics, the average white American is no more likely to commit a gun crime than your average person from Denmark, but yeah sure…. so long as there are sufficient number of white people around I will admit that Africans can hold the appearances of civilization…. until of course they completely outnumber you, swamp your services, flood you with crime and turn your society into South Africa.

        LOL. Because simply ignoring bad ideas is somehow comparable to genetic determinism.

        Yeah – and you have a “Dr” in front of your name because you worked hard and not because you were born with a swath of genetic advantages over your average bogon….. com’on, announce your true privilege, you got were you are today through no effort than being born with the right genes.

        LOL. Of all the things that cause failed states, IQ wouldn’t even make a rounding error.

        Here you go – here is a link to nations by IQ. There is even a handy little map with colours at the bottom which should be able to help you identify those nations most likely to be failed states….. wow, amazing correlation with IQs.

        https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html

        Uh huh. So how are genetics going to change IQ scores in half a generation ? If all races are improving at roughly the same rate, how can genetics be playing a part ? If IQs can improve by as much as the difference between races in a decade or two, how can you possibly claim it’s impossible for the lower races to every improve enough ?

        IQ tests are good at revealing baseline intelligence “g” which is correlated with problem solving. As our societies have become more complex, the level of problem solving required from a young age also increases, which requires more complex IQ tests in order to reveal the underlying “g” being tested for….. or do you really think your average year 3 kids is now smarter than Einstein?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Let’s take a look at what I said :

        So pretty much exactly what I said. Check.

        And in reply to that statement you gave me “Switzerland” – a High IQ society that is composed of several marginally ethnically and culturally separate Cantons, but who are all still European and Christian, […]

        Ah. So just like in Ireland, then ?

        […] and you think that is a comparative example to say why it will be no problem for Australia’s democracy if we have Indian-Australia canton in Melbourne, Asian-Australian canton in Sydney and Bogon-Aust canton in Brisbane.

        You will presumably be staggered to learn that the Swiss are comfortable moving between and living in different Cantons.

        Another strawmay, I never said individuals weren’t capable of living in civilized society… so long as they are surrounded by a sufficient number of white people to keep those nations states running, to continue providing the taxes and the services and institutions – sure Africans can inhabit those spaces with a minimum of trouble…..

        So the civilised white folks keep the brutish darkies under control. Gotcha.

        What was that about not judging individuals based on supposed characteristics of the group, again ?

        Yeah – and you have a “Dr” in front of your name because you worked hard and not because you were born with a swath of genetic advantages over your average bogon….. com’on, announce your true privilege, you got were you are today through no effort than being born with the right genes.

        LOL. I have “Dr” in front of my username because it’s a nickname I got at school.

        Plenty of my peers who I’d be willing to bet would measure lower IQs, have been equally and more successful than me.

        Here you go – here is a link to nations by IQ. There is even a handy little map with colours at the bottom which should be able to help you identify those nations most likely to be failed states….. wow, amazing correlation with IQs.

        LOL. From the guy whinging about an anonymous website a few posts ago, we’re now judging the capabilities of billions based on… an anoymous website.

        You know Lynn’s data and methods have long been discredited, right ? That he fabricated data he couldn’t actually measure ? That he systemically excluded samples to manipulate the results ?

        IQ tests are good at revealing baseline intelligence “g” which is correlated with problem solving. As our societies have become more complex, the level of problem solving required from a young age also increases, which requires more complex IQ tests in order to reveal the underlying “g” being tested for….. or do you really think your average year 3 kids is now smarter than Einstein?

        The average 3 year old is scoring higher on IQ tests that Einstein ?

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        “Ah. So just like in Ireland, then ?”

        Ireland had the Protestants imposed on them – the weren’t a shared collection of isolated mountain people who happened to also learn the languages of the nations bordering their small, well defended nation.

        “You will presumably be staggered to learn that the Swiss are comfortable moving between and living in different Cantons.”

        No I would not – they are all European, Christians, generally speak all 3 languages and after several thousand years have quite a deal of co-mingling for a genetic perspective. Their Cantons all operate largely autonomously, yet bounded by a common currency and financial laws. Shared Values.

        I repeat – you expect that to work just as smoothly if we have Muslim/Hindu Indian-Australia canton in Melbourne, Asian-Australian Budhist Confuscian canton in Sydney and Bogon-Aust Christian canton in Brisbane.? How has that worked out it real life…. India and China are currently at daggers drawn and probably more likely to go to war than China/US, God knows how many wars between India and Pakistain, so maybe Sydney-Canton won’t have to worry about Melbourne Canto as they desend into civil war?

        But war is just an exageration – it is the dysfunction and reduction on our existing societies ability to meet its own needs with the resources available to it, and the impact on AUSTRALIANS already living here, that is the issue. But hey, some Browns feelings might be hurt so, we can’t hurt feelings can we?

        So the civilised white folks keep the brutish darkies under control. Gotcha.

        Nope that is not what I said. I said ” so long as there are sufficient number of white people around I will admit that Africans can hold the appearances of civilization…. until of course they completely outnumber you, swamp your services, flood you with crime and turn your society into South Africa.” which they will.

        Africans can keep Africa for all I care about that shyte hole and if any Westerner tries to subjugate them or have any thing to do with them, by all means shoot him.

        Plenty of my peers who I’d be willing to bet would measure lower IQs, have been equally and more successful than me.

        Ahhh – so you’re “mates” realised early on that you were a know it all DH and gave you an ironic nickname. Claro.

        You know Lynn’s data and methods have long been discredited, right ? That he fabricated data he couldn’t actually measure ? That he systemically excluded samples to manipulate the results ?

        Perhaps you could provide me with a link to this Lynn guy, it sounds like I should read some of what he’s written. My links are from Science journals and the application of Occam’s Razor.

        The average 3 year old is scoring higher on IQ tests that Einstein ?

        You really can’t read can you ….. or do you really think your average year 3 kids is now smarter than Einstein? Year 3 , not 3 year old, which you resemble.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Richard Lynn – I see I linked to the IQ by nations. That he has been subjected to ridiculous criticism by the sort of cultural marxists that you linked to with your rubbish debunking site doesn’t suprise me, James Watson and Frances Crick have been subjected to similar partisian criticism, as has Charles Murray – mainly from bigots who have an agenda in blaming all the worlds disparities on the evils of white men.

        The criticism you refer picked up errors in his methodology but still confirmed differences:

        Our review of the literature on the performance of Africans on the Raven’s tests showed that the average IQ of Africans on the Raven’s tests is lower than the average IQ in western countries. …. “Lynn (and Vanhanen)’s estimate of average IQ of Africans of around 67 is untenable. Our review indicates that it is about 78 (UK norms) or 80 (US norms)”

        In case you missed it let me state it again…

        “Our review indicates that it is [African IQ] about 78 (UK norms) or 80 (US norms).”

        The functional cut off for IQ for acceptance into the US Army is 82, meaning the median IQ of the average African would still disqualify them from joining the US Army.

        IQ tests have been administered to thousands of people, by thousands of different researchers and they have consistently shown that Africans test lower than all other racial groups.

        Don’t discredit the idea or the theory, discredit a prominent man who supports it.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Perhaps you could provide me with a link to this Lynn guy, it sounds like I should read some of what he’s written. My links are from Science journals and the application of Occam’s Razor.

        LOL. Your application of Occam’s Razor thinks that out of multiple waves of colonialisation and exploitation of African nations, over centuries, the most likely reason for their problems today is IQ scores ?

        The criticism you refer picked up errors in his methodology but still confirmed differences:

        Here’s some actual context rather than the quote-mining your racialism manual told you to use.

        http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2011/08/devastating-criticism-of-richard-lynn.html
        http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2011/11/african-iq-and-the-flynn-effect.html

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        “LOL. Your application of Occam’s Razor thinks that out of multiple waves of colonialisation and exploitation of African nations, over centuries, the most likely reason for their problems today is IQ scores ?”

        LOL and YOUR application of Occam’s Razor has evolution and the environment interacting to influence and shape every single biological, metabolic and physical attribute of mankind, and every variance of every population group at every location throughout the world, except for the ONE thing that more defines our humanity and seperates us from animals more than any other – our intelligence.

        Don’t bother linking any more of your bigoted, anti-science, blogs. They are as pathetic as your reasoning.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Twenty years and going strong…. certainly a world record for Chinese democracy I will give you that.

    • The CCP is communist ideology grafted onto the Chinese imperial system.
      Interesting. I thought it was the Chinese Imperial system grafted onto Communist ideology.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        The question of which was grafted on what, would depend on what was there previously. Chinese Imperialism or Communism?

        The organisational structure of a nation doesn’t simply switch because the nominal ideology at the top changes. All the local taxes, rules, laws, administrators of the previous regime will still be present in the subsequent (at least initially).

        The simple reason being that “speciality” in complex societies requires that it be maintained in order for society to continue functioning at a basic level – these cultural roots are the foundation of the society operating above and in that context they were Imperial China.

    • “Democracy exists as a social construct only in the West, and it existed in the West for one reason and one reason only, when you could be sure that regardless of your political beliefs, your neighbour would still be voting for YOUR communities collective interests and not his clans.”

      What a load of crap, since when in any western country have we had this? People vote for their “clan” all the time.

      And you have a DAUGHTER, now sad for her!

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Yawn… the degree of difference between your clan and my clan, will determine the degree of future conflict as we each seek to project our values forward into the future.

        PS: I have more than one offspring…. and you my favourite INCEL how many children do you have?

    • Oh how sweet, you decided to edit your reply (I actually have 2 daughters and 4 sons (last time I checked, genetically speaking)…. and you my favourite INCEL how many children do you have?).

      Three daughters and they know if they dragged someone like you home I would drown them and you, but there’s no chance of them doing that, they wouldn’t tolerate someone who thinks like you.

      Edit: Yes, and you have four sons, what will become of the world?

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        That was my bad to try to use an act of altruism on my part to club you with, which was why I chose to edit it. It was your bad to republish it, but then you are a nasty little scab so I should have expected as much.

        “Three daughters and they know if they dragged someone like you home I would drown them and you, but there’s no chance of them doing that, they wouldn’t tolerate someone who thinks like you.”

        You are a charming fellow aren’t you. Drown your daughters or bash them if they held views different to yourself. Are you sure you aren’t from the middle east or India? (this says nothing of the amazing fact that you admitted to not being in a relationship at all last week, and in the interval gotten married and had 3 kids).

        That’s the difference between you and me, I suppose, Fascists like yourself can’t stand people who don’t think like yourself…. I suppose you find different view points threatening (which doesn’t surprise me as small minded people generally do)

        If say for instance my daughter brought home someone like you, firstly after I’d stop laughing, I’d accept it, because that is her right. Secondly, I’d enjoy mocking the fcuk out of you and your views, for the rest of the time you spent hanging out with her, until of course she’d wake up to the fact as to what a loser you are and dumped your sorry arse.

    • Your memory isn’t good. I told you I had a GF, I’m divorced with three daughters in their early 20s. My daughters are extremely independent and their mother and I didn’t raise them to be replacements for their partners mothers. They wouldn’t go near a man with views like yours and they would base their choice on the persons character.

      I truly am sorry you have sons let alone daughters, the chances of them overcoming someone like you with such virulent beliefs is slim; talk about a poisoned well.

      As to the edits, if for some reason you didn’t want them in print (which I don’t get), I apologise, I didn’t see anything in it other than you had two daughters and four sons. For me it was more to do with the number of young minds you’re poisoning.

  5. robert2013MEMBER

    WeChat, Baidu et al should be blocked. They are more dangerous than Pirate bay. Also we may not think it’s about race, but the CCP does. As far as they are concerned the Chinese diaspora belong to them.


  6. The unit explicitly seeks to unite “overseas Chinese” – who number about 60 million and according to Chinese officials could rank as the 24th largest nation in the world by population – to help achieve Beijing’s goals.

    It will be interesting to see how the CCP goes at maintaining this number as the number of Chinese born people on the planet goes into decline. It seems doubtful that it’s sustainable to have the equivalent of nearly 5% of your populace living overseas with a shrinking population at home.