Exclusive: Dick Smith responds to ABC bias

Please find below a letter from Dick Smith responding to ABC The Drum’s biased segment on Wednesday attacking the Dick Smith Fair Go campaign.

Dick has informed us that he went to the ABC headquarters in Sydney yesterday to state his case but was turned back at the door.

7 September 2017

Julia Baird Presenter The Drum ABC

Dear Julia


What an outrageous segment on The Drum last night misrepresenting my views on population growth and immigration. This segment did everything to confirm that Mark O’Connor’s chapter in his book Overloading Australia entitled ‘Media bias and ABC blues’ is correct.

Your researchers didn’t even make the most basic enquiries by lifting the phone and talking to me about the statements that were attributed to me.

I note you started the segment with a piece from another TV channel with the large text “Anti immigration ad.” In fact, I have never had an anti-immigration ad.

I spent $1 million on a “Grim Reaper” style advertising campaign explaining that when politicians say growth, they actually mean endless growth. This will either result in growing inequality, or possibly terrible consequences for our society.

Those views are not mine alone, but reflect the views of many educated people from around the world.

The reason I have never run and anti-immigration ad is that I am pro-immigration. I always have been. It is the reason Australia is such a fantastic country.

Yes, upon advice from experts, I believe we should return to the long-term average of about 70,000 per year – as I’m told this will mean there is a greater chance for a sustainable future, and proper full-time careers for our children and grandchildren.

70,000 per year is approximately the immigration number when Paul Keating was Prime Minister, and I’m told is high per capita by world standards.

I have consistently called for a substantial increase in the humanitarian intake. This would be clear if any of your researchers had even bothered to glance at the Fair Go manifesto, or if you had given the panelists the document to look at.

Your segment went downhill from there. The erroneous caption “anti-immigration ad” confirmed exactly what I had been told by politicians about the ABC. They have said to me:

“Dick, you are absolutely right. We need a population policy, but if I ever mentioned it I would be crucified by the ABC. They would immediately link my comment to being opposed to immigration…”

Not at any time during the whole segment did you actually discuss what I am on about. That is, it is not possible to have endless growth in a finite world.

Amazingly, your researchers or producers didn’t even bother to brief Alan Kirkland, the CEO of Choice, about my $1 million “Grim Reaper” television campaign. He actually said on your segment:

“I didn’t know about this campaign until the whole story broke about the ABC banning him.”

Once again, that proves exactly what Mark O’Connor is saying in Overloading Australia. That is, ABC television news and current affairs (and, I will add, The Drum), constantly show bias on the growth issue.

Every one of your panelists were clearly pro endless growth. I particularly loved the comment by Alan Kirkland:

“So we are getting a lot out of migration at the moment, geared predominantly towards delivering what employers need, and that is what fuels the economy, and it has been one of the most consistent forces driving economic growth in Australia, decade upon decade.”

Of course he doesn’t mention for an instant – nor do you, and I would have thought you would have as you are a mother of young children – that with automation and robotics there are real concerns that there will be enough jobs to give a decent full-time career to our young people in the future.

That is why, in my Fair Go manifesto, I have canvassed the idea of a living wage – not at all mentioned by any of your people.

Then of course there is the tired old point from Alan Kirkland:

“We absolutely need to have this debate because I guess the missing piece is saying that population has grown that that has fuelled economic growth but we have really dropped the ball on infrastructure and on housing in particular.”

Yes, that is the Harry Triguboff belief. You just need to spend more money on infrastructure and housing, and the endless growth will be solved.

Has Mr Kirkland forgotten that our high schools are now moving into high rise, and children are living like termites rather than free range with a back yard and a cubby house?

Georgina Downer from the Institute of Public Affairs, reckons, “It is quite rich for Dick Smith to say he is being ignored,” and then goes on saying that I pitched my whole argument about immigration “being incredibly damaging” when this is clearly not true.

Julia, why didn’t you bring up at any stage the issue that I am talking about? It is very simple. You can’t have endless growth in population and the use of resources and energy in a finite world. There is no discussion on this because the politicians have been totally intimidated because they may be branded “anti-immigration.”

It appears that the briefing note handed to panellists said that this was a “stunt.” Nothing could be further from the truth. Since producing my documentary on population, which was run on the ABC, I have worked constantly on this important issue that affects all Australians.

Of note, the documentary was commissioned not by television news and current affairs, but by a completely different ABC department, and the man who did the commissioning did not have his contract renewed.

Julia, you, like every mother, has a population plan – you didn’t have 20 kids. Australian families are sensible and have the number of children to whom they can give a good life. Why then shouldn’t we have a plan for the aggregate that says, “Let’s have the number of people in Australia that we can give a good life to.”

I would say that is pretty simple, but it is not discussed in any way – driven by the fear of politicians into being dishonestly distorted in their views, as your segment did to me last night.

Most importantly, I note the statement by marketing strategist Toby Ralph:

“I am very concerned that he is a guy who won’t vote for a Party that he is about to give $2 million to, and that seems to me a contradiction that you can’t fully move past. I think he needs a nice long lie down and a think about that.”

One simple phone call by your researchers to me would have informed them that I have never had any intention of making a donation to One Nation in relation to this issue. It is a complete fabrication.

I have attached a copy of the chapter in Overloading Australia entitled Media bias and ABC blues. I ask you to read it, and today at 4.30 pm I will be at the ABC Headquarters at Ultimo, waiting downstairs, and I expect to be given a chance to go on air to have the truth told.

I should point out that eight out of ten Australians agree with my views that we should have open discussion and a population plan – not endless growth, driven normally by endless greed.


Dick Smith

Unconventional Economist
Latest posts by Unconventional Economist (see all)


  1. Sorry to be the party pooper….

    2 mistakes (in order of importance)

    1. Touched and tainted himself with Pauline “it” Hanson
    9. Attacked Triguboff
    (2-8 deliberately empty)

    Knocking at the doors of the ABC studios and asking for an answer or debate is childish, number of “I” in above text is alarming.
    Inspite the good agenda, he will self destruct with impatience which makes him do silly moves
    Like an elephant in the china shop

    • ‘Dick Smith will self destruct with impatience.’
      Why does this sound eerily like ‘Donald Trump will never be US President’?
      He’s making a lot of noise for one man. More power to his arm.

      • +1+1.

        I wouldn’t be discounting him by any stretch. Some of his achievements battering Governments to change aviation regulations, practices and procedures, whether you agree with them or otherwise have been amazing. This is the most over regulated, bureaucratic, butt covering safety based industry on the planet and Dick rarely loses. By comparison this issue is small fry once you consider the emotive angle (jobs for the kids etc) and the fact that he’s spot on about the latent community support for what he’s saying.

      • If he stands, I’d vote for him. Heck I lobbed a few votes grenades that have been successful to the tune of: Darren Hinch and ON. Unliek the grenade candidates, however, Dick has a lot of lasting power.

      • M

        DS siding with PHON is a sign of his impatience trying to get his view into parliament debate or to galvanise the topic. A shortcut if you like.
        I am sure he knows intellectual reach of PH and the obvious stink that comes with association with her thus “impatience” is the only reasonable explanation (because I do not think DS is stupid not to see through PH)

        Jusup Broz
        Care to elaborate “blasphemy” label?

    • 1 is a non-issue. That is like saying “Trump got tainted by grope allegations a week before the election”. He still won! Nobody gives a stuff. One woman said on CNN “Trump is not running for Pope”.

      I think Dick was advising her on aviation policy – not Islam policy.

      It is a miracle that Portugal is allowed to have a shrinking population. Been shrinking since 2001!

      Childish? What has Nick Xenophon been doing all these years? Do whatever it takes to get free publicity.

      SHould say “Dick Smith OA” and “Dick Smith – Australian of the Year” in the ads.

      • Can’t compare groping bragging and siding with “it” which is defined with almost every word endung with -ism and -phobia.
        If you smear urslef with poop can you say you only advertise toilet paper?
        Childish as it makes him look Don Quixote-esque. Would not take him serious.

        I do wish him success. I’m just not turning a blind eye to his self inflicted flaws. One of the flaws is that he is making a perfect strawman model with every silly step taken

    • Djenka. Please fill in 1-9 what you have been doing about this issue so that Dick can learn from your wisdom.

    • Just how many decent trustworthy Australians are needed to say, like Dick, that they have satisfied themselves Hanson is not just another racist, but someone else with honourable views on immigration, based on culture and economics – before the ABC and the SJW Left will admit this?

      It epitomises the problem, that even H&H on MB, won’t grant me the “not a racist” credit. I am in favour of immigration, agreeing with him on growth and infrastructure – but because I say that immigration policy should consider CULTURE, I am a “racist”. Because I think stroppy, troublemaking Anglo-Saxons should be barred along with every other identifiably stroppy, trouble-making potential immigrant!

      I agree with inter-racial marriage, I would be quite happy to live under a Lee Kuan Yew government, I idolise Thomas Sowell and Esperanza Spalding – and admire Martin Luther King. MLK’s utterances on western civilisation and its values are in stark contrast to the culture-war Quislings that infest the west today. These Quislings use of the “racist” charge as a despicable lie against honourable people, epitomises their dishonesty, and it is a good healthy sign when they “lose the people”.

      Donald Trump is not a racist, and those who wearisomely insist that he, is have ‘lost the people”, and damwell right they should have. Same for Nigel Farage. I believed the media about Hanson, until Dick Smith went public with his assessments of her. At that point, I could quite easily believe that Hanson was just another victim of a mass campaign of slanders against her from the multi-culti Quisling Left.

      • Good points Phil, but I and perhaps you are examples of what is becoming dangerous (should this growth program continue) and that is that moderates will be ‘forced’ through lack of effective alternatives to join some kind of more extreme organisation.

        This happened in Germany and it can happen here too. 🙁

      • @tonydd
        You aren’t forced to do that. It is perfectly reasonable, and possible, to desire a reduction in immigration and not end up supporting or joining what you described as a more extreme group. Saying otherwise is to just show the same lack of integrity that the political class in Australia are often criticised for.

      • Phil,
        MLK was attempting to unite a divided society. Trump,?Farage and Hanson do their upmost to exploit division to their own advantage.

      • “Racist” “nazi” and “fascist” have been used inappropriately for so long by the SJW and the fake left reflecting the bias on the ABC, that like the f word with Lenny Bruce, they have lost all meaning and have become a caricature of the literal. When Antifa are the fascists and racists, the ABC spouts propaganda, and people are convicted for making political statements in the name of freedom and otolerance, the authoritarian nature of those words as weapons is blindingly obvious.

      • Correct Phil, in my blue-pill, sheeple days I swallowed the propaganda that she was an evil racist. But having gone far down the rabbit hole and realised the truth about things like the New World Order and white genocide, her positions are actually quite honourable.

      • Pauline is definitely a racist, Trump probably more a bigot. I used to say I could never vote for her but if Adani get $1B of tax payer money + tax holiday etc & energy prices stay distorted then I just might give her my vote if that is what it takes.

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        I’m reminded of that visual gag in the Simpsons “Fox News: Not racist but number one with racists”

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        “…but because I say that immigration policy should consider CULTURE, I am a “racist”. Because I think stroppy, troublemaking Anglo-Saxons should be barred along with every other identifiably stroppy, trouble-making potential immigrant!”

        From the Department of Immigration and Border Protection:

        “Applicants seeking Australian citizenship aged 18 years and over must be of ‘good character’. Good character covers the ‘enduring moral qualities of a person’ and whether they are likely to uphold and obey the laws of Australia, and other commitments they make through the Australian Citizenship Pledge.

        In addition, applicants may need to obtain an overseas penal clearance certificate, or overseas police check as they are sometimes known, from each country visited.

        Any applicant for citizenship by conferral, whether under or over 18 years of age, must not be approved for citizenship in certain circumstances relating to criminal offences. Read more about the offence provisions below.

        More information about the good character requirement is available in Chapter 10 of the Australian Citizenship Instructions in Law and Policy.”


      • FiftiesFibroShack

        “But having gone far down the rabbit hole and realised the truth about things like the New World Order and white genocide, her positions are actually quite honourable.”

        It’s hilarious that this is what you have to believe to make her position appear honourable.

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        ““Racist” “nazi” and “fascist” have been used inappropriately for so long by the SJW and the fake left reflecting the bias on the ABC.”

        Now give me a second while I quote someone inappropriately using the term fascist and racist while demonstrating themselves a hypocrite.

        “When Antifa are the fascists and racists, the ABC spouts propaganda, and people are convicted for making political statements in the name of freedom and otolerance, the authoritarian nature of those words as weapons is blindingly obvious.”

        FFS. The group that wants a white ethno state is about freedom and tolerance but Antifa, a group that wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for appearance of white nationalists, are the real fascists and racists. This is some Orwellian logic.

      • “Just how many decent trustworthy Australians are needed to say, like Dick, that they have satisfied themselves Hanson is not just another racist

        Hanson is not just a garden variety of racist.
        If PHON could be defined by her view on the immigration only, perhaps you could have some valid grounds.
        Excess Immigration is only a convenient topic for PHON but far from its true agenda.

      • FiftiesFibroShack


        Do you want me to pull up pictures of white nationalists in Charlottesville beating a black man with various objects and ask who the fascists are? How about the guy who drove his car through a group of people and killed one of them? How about the guy firing into the crowd or the one telling a journalist they are willing to kill all the counter protestors if have to?

        Let me make it simple; if there is no Antifa there are still white nationalists; if there are no white nationalists Antifa is unheard of.

        The people you’re supporting want a white ethnostate. If you think that has any chance of happening without fascism you are clueless. If you think people fighting against that are just as bad or the real fascists, even if they’re violent and often misguided, you need some history lessons.

      • Total garbage. “Nazis” and “Racists” are anyone they happen to disagree with. They are not interested in debating political islam, those people with opposing views are racist and deserve to be bashed. Only they should speak and no one should disagree. Just read the article. The law does not apply to them. Their view is more important than anyone else’s. I don’t support a white ethnostate, or a caliphate, but if others do they have the protections that the law provides. Antifa doesn’t give a rats arse about others rights. Who has that political philosophy?

        “It becomes difficult to know which ones are the fascists. To quash someone else’s view is fascism. To hit someone over the head because they don’t agree with you is fascism. To lay the boot into another person to get what you want is fascism. You can be an anti-fascist and hold a placard but the minute you start imposing your will on someone else, you become a fascist as well.”

      • Fitzroy be careful pointing out violence from Antifa, becker might delete your post and banhammer you.

      • @sweeper ‘“Quisling left” .. just ponder that for a second.’
        Pondered it for a second, now what. The moral involution from the black and white thinking left knows no bounds.

      • […] the black and white thinking left […]

        This is the same “left” that you’d argue advocatessupports “gender fluidity”, right ? Or whose idea of “tolerance” is “anything goes” ?

        Just sublime.

      • And like clockwork smith comes in(knew it would happen when I wrote that) with his deflecting whataboutisms to rationilse his dissonance. It’s not other people (or ironic) smith it’s you. What’s next smith, how are you going to deflect now, are you going to give it a ‘lol’ like you are floating above everyone and supremely rational. Are you going to assume that when someone disagrees with you they must be the Tony Abbotts in your head and under your bed that you are fighting.

      • +1 Phil.
        It is 100% about culture and identity.
        As for flvidtue signallers like Fibro….one basic question unravels your entire frame of reference.
        “Ever been a minority?”
        Case closed.

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        “I don’t support a white ethnostate, or a caliphate, but if others do they have the protections that the law provides.”

        If people supporting a white ethnostate of caliphate get power anyone who disagrees will not have protections under the law. Antifa is born from that. They are not equal. It’s ahistorical to suggest they are.

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        “It is 100% about culture and identity.
        As for flvidtue signallers like Fibro….one basic question unravels your entire frame of reference.
        “Ever been a minority?”
        Case closed.”

        Yes, it all must be “virtue signalling” (I assume that’s what you were trying to type) It wouldn’t have anything to do with being being the son of an immigrant; the husband of an immigrant/minority, and the two wonderful children I’ve had with her that are minorities.

        And yes, I’ve been a minority in my wife’s country.

      • Disagree. Kicking people because you don’t like what they might say is the hallmark of the blackshirt. Period. They are just intolerant bullies who like to bash people. One does not ask a person who is kicking you in the head what are your political views? It is irrelevant and they are turds.

      • FFS, sounds like you swallowed the staged Charlottesville propaganda clean down the hatch! No wonder you have no idea what’s happening in the world! haha

      • Well… if a serious politician wants to be in the same basket as “investigative” journalists of Current Affairs or Today Tonight… I will agree with you.

      • Sorry Mig,
        everyone has bias, the difference is if we allow it to permanently obscure views.

        I’ve seen this Don Quixote tactic before in other countries and it was childish and laughable even then and there.

      • Don Quixote? So now we’re tilting at windmills or using barbers pot as helmets? WTF are you talking about, that wasn’t ambush journalism by any stretch and your implications was idiotic.

      • Mig,

        plenty of on line articles on “Quixotism” in simple, non-compound and non-complex sentences, for your understanding. Some come with pictures!

        “Dick has informed us that he went to the ABC headquarters in Sydney yesterday to state his case but was turned back at the door.”
        Like it ever happened anywhere on this planet… hence…

        But now that you resorted to the strongest argument ever: “idiot” I can see the true massive weight of the comments you made.

      • I see, it is “I” who do not understand “you” following spastic insulting responses from you.

        I know, hair splitting:
        idiot / idiotic are soooo far apart.

      • Quixotism: Quixotism (/kwɪkˈsɒtɪzəm/ or /kiːˈhoʊtɪzəm/) (adj. quixotic) is impracticality in pursuit of ideals, especially those ideals manifested by rash, lofty and romantic ideas or extravagantly chivalrous action. It also serves to describe an idealism without regard to practicality.

        “Knocking at the doors of the ABC studios and asking for an answer or debate is childish, number of “I” in above text is alarming.
        Inspite the good agenda, he will self destruct with impatience which makes him do silly moves
        Like an elephant in the china shop”

        I take it back, you are an idiot

      • “Difference is verb and adjective – but grammar is too hard for you I see…”
        Indeed. English is the 3rd language I use daily.

        I am yet to learn how a pure adjective “idiotic” can become a verb.
        Idiocy… maybe… but you said “idiotic” – twice.
        Perhaps you can find any reference of “idiotic” used as a verb?
        Otherwise it is yet another spastic response (to clarify, as in yankee meaning)

        There a other on-line articles on Quixotism written only using simple sentences, unlike the wikipedia quote. Cognition may improve.

        “I take it back, you are an idiot”

        Good, now I learned your apex in arguments and cognition
        I knew this but I wanted to give you a benefit of doubt. Now the doubt is gone.

    • You didn’t poop any parties, you just showed your leftist bias and couldn’t even come up with a coherent counter-point, muppet!

      • Wow, you got me as “left” based on 2-3 sentences?

        I am more like a plumbing elbow. Can be left and right at the same time. It is depending on your angle.
        I do not doubt that I am “left” from the perspective of pro &-ism and pro &-phobia (& = fill in as required)

        Perhaps overly cynical in view of politicians but “left”… LOL

      • C’mon muppet, at least own your views, I’ve been following your comments on this blog for a while and there certainly not consistent with any rightwing/conservative views I’ve heard of.

      • Andrew,
        got any arguments to present or biased opinions is the best?

        It can be a cognitive challenge for some to learn that there are people that do not have traditional bubbled wing type views.
        Confused, they find such people “not owning their views”

      • So typical, the left of the left has become mainstream now and any previously moderate conservative is a ‘far right extremist’. *Chortle*

    • What’s wrong with attacking High-Rise Harry, who has become a rent-seeking parasite on the back of this economy?

      • Nothing wrong.

        Just premature.
        IMO for Dick to be able to make a scratch on Triguboff’s empire, he must have much more leverage than now. Seriously much more.

  2. Dick Smith needs to choose the seat of a high profile Liberal member and announce he will be running for Parliment. Abbott or Turnbull.

    • Totally. This issue will determine the next parliament. Both major parties are asleep at the wheel blissfully unaware that a population policy and reduction in mass immigration can muster a 8% swing to either major party. People will vote for the devil herself rather than see this continue. They have yet to read the writing on the wall. The Greens will be obliterated if they continue to ignore population as an environmental issue. Australians have had enough and this is something they really care about.

      • They don’t care, unlike the US we don’t get a popular vote on anything. The parties elevate their own and the only choice you get is to accept their picks or donkey…

  3. Crikey hates Dick Smith!



    Wow. What is the point of Crikey? I can read that pro open-border stuff on The Guardian.

    Just one question for Crikey, why is it ok for just about every other nation to have a slower immigration rate? Why?

    “immigration as a threat to our economy”

    Oh Crikey, we are voters and humans not an economy.

    • But after the initial two or three rara comments there wasnt much energy in the comments supporting the crikey stance. I read them twice and the pro readers were just abusing dick and had no substance and others corrected their false allegations.

    • I like his analogy about having children. A person who has two children and chooses not to have more would certainly not be accused of “hating” children or fostering an “anti-children” sentiment in society.

    • Crikey is mostly just drivel now.

      SJW drivel

      Listened to Helen Razer on LNL yest-dee. She’s great

  4. If Leith van Onselen & Dick Smith moved the debate to the migrant intake quality and the economic & social impact…

    Then I think that would hit the mark with many Australians that the current migrant intake & especially the TR & Tourist illegals is out of control & totally unsustainable economically & socially.

    I’m all for a skilled migrant intake that brings new & unique skills to Australia.

    We hear from the ABC & pro-immigration lobbyists that Australia has a ‘skilled migrant’ program, bring skills, wealth & a young vital new energy and contribution to our future society..

    So I checked and the ABF & recent 2016 ABS data shows exactly the opposite.

    In fact when you reconcile the two, the full scale of the Australian immigration disaster by the respective Labor & Liberal governments becomes clear.

    We have literally become a dumping ground for Asia, India, the Middle East and elsewhere.

    Fact 1. Our intake is of very low or no skill third world migrants with little or no professional, industry or vocation skills (putting the usual third world faked degrees & other papers) as China, India, the Middle East and other countries push out their misfits, their poor, their criminals, their vice workers.

    Fact 2. A second stage impact, once the migrant anchor is in place with PR or citizenship/ in comes their sick & elderly to massive unfounded additional burden.

    Read on if you wish – data to support this.
    NOM over the last decade 2006-2016 has seen some 1.6 million migrants given permanent residency or citizenship grants.

    A large number were ‘international student or 457 to PR’ but the data shows that less than 4% now occupy any professional role or even related to their ‘study’ (ABF/ABS).

    And the family reunion, spousal, the business visa racket, the 711 or barista manager sponsorship racket, refugees & special needs grants – were mostly unskilled, did not bring capital or skills & also a net economic & social burden.

    In fact less than 30% of the intake were in any skilled classification.
    Masked within that subset is the family / dependent – unskilled, often a wife & child or more – 2 or 3 per each skilled person – so in fact less than 15% were an actual skilled person. And of that fraction, less than 5% had any unique or highly accredited professional skill.
    At best 100,000 out of 1.6 million = 1.5 million unskilled migrants.

    The ABS 2016 profiles show of the migrant intake shows they were low or no skill, low income, not in any professional high tax contributing occupation, Welfare & benefit dependent, non assimilating, and once the ‘anchor’ dragged in the extended family, a massive health care & welfare burden.

    86% concentration in Sydney or Melbourne, so 1.3 million total or say 650,000 unskilled third world migrants in each city.

    1 in every 7.5 people in each of those cities is a third world unskilled low income migrant on a PR or citizenship grant, and a net burden.

    And then it gets worse… Much worse.

    On top of this unskilled migrant intake disaster, we have another 2.6 million on temporary visas (2.1 million) or here in tourist visas working illegally (400,000).
    See the breakout below.

    Only a tiny fraction are skilled.
    Only 72,000 of the 158,000 in the 457/skilled visa are ‘skilled’, the rest in that visa group are unskilled / dependents.

    The bulk of the TR are NZ visas or international students.

    The NZ visa are increasingly third world migrants using NZ as a transit camp for NZ residency to get into Australia. Nearly half are now not of NZ second generation background, showing what a racket that is. The Aust/NZ SC visa should only be for Australian or NZ born not a people trafficking back door via NZ into Aust.

    The international students are mostly Fake – 80% are doing 8 year old English or 14 year old high school courses as so called diplomas, free online in their home country – with only 3.9% ever achieving a professional role. That’s the key point showing how fake the whole racket is.
    The lowest progression of any OECD country as our education system prostitutes itself as a visa alibi for these ‘students or their fake partners, almost all here & working illegally full time in the black market.

    The rest are working holiday, cash back to farmers & labour rackets for visa fraud, of bridging & special visa holders also mostly unskilled.

    A fair statement is of these 2.6 million (TR 2.1 mil) or tourist visa working illegally (400k) that at least 2.3 million are unskilled, working illegally, Fake ID, cash in hand.
    Many live in foreign enclave ghettos, never assimilate or be part of Australian
    Economically they only bring in $4 billion at best in ‘declared funds’ often frauded, form a $105 billion underground sub economy, and send out over $36 billion in funds, remittances or money xfers. -2% GDP. Unparalleled in the OECD as an out of control runaway migrant guestworker social & economic burden.

    And with an even higher concentration of 93% in Sydney & Melbourne.

    So let’s say 1.1 million of these TR or illegal working tourists in each city.
    Add them to the unskilled citizen/or migrants & its 1.7 million in each city of 5 million.
    That’s 1 out of every 3 people in Sydney or Melbourne as an unskilled third world migrant arrival or TR/ illegal.

    What the average Australian now sees ;

    •Destroyed housing & affordability as third world migrant run rackets in slum cot & mattress subletting takes over what used to be Australian dwellings.
    •Destroyed standards of living.
    •Destroyed jobs & wages.
    •Destroyed cost of living.
    •Widespread homelessness.
    •Destroyed education. Fallen 10 places globally.
    •Destroyed community services.
    •Destroyed Health care & welfare (as an unfunded burden) once the migrant get the PR or citizenship & drags the rest in.
    •Vice, rackets, money laundering, radicalism and crime.
    •Destroying public & road transport.
    •Massive ethnic enclaves – third world slum ghettos stretch across the horizon.

    My point.

    ->We do not have a skilled migrant intake.
    We do not have a socially or economically beneficial migrant intake.
    The ABS & ABF statistics show that beyond any doubt.

    Unskilled migrants are now concentrated to be one third of Sydney or Melbourne population.
    The massive slums, social & economic and other issues are impacting every facet of our society.

    Even the migrants themselves are complaining it’s out of control and destroying any future they sought here.

    Action needed.
    We are probably stuck with the mistakes on the citizenship & PR burden.
    But we can shut down the TR & Tourist visa rackets until the mess is sorted out.
    Thats 2 million that can, and should be exited immediately.

    And let’s see the debate move from ‘what number’ of migrants, to what is their skills and the contribution they will make to Australia – versus the social, community, job, housing and health care burden they create.

    Reference data.

    ABS 2016 migrant intake by country of origin, Citizenship/ PR tables / skills, income & locations – this shows 92% are low or no skill, low education if often false or low quality offshore education is discounted, low income, low tax or no contribution, highly concentrated in Sydney or Melbourne, very aged in profile with second stage family reunion, and a very high welfare & health care burden.

    ABF Temporary entrants in Australia
    December 2016.
    ‘NZ special category visa : 646,830, of which 340,000 are unskilled/lower socio-economic third world birth or origin ~ coming in via nz back door residency.

    ‘International Students primary 355,760, 85% very unskilled, unskilled, 3.9% progression into professional vocation.

    ‘Visitor 565,760 almost all unskilled.

    ‘Working holiday 148,5000, some skilled.

    Temp skilled (457) 150,220 but only 72,000 primary & less than 12,000 actually ‘specialist unique skilled’.

    ‘Bridging 127,110 almost all unskilled.

    ‘Other Temp visa 60,090, mostly unskilled.

    Temp Grad 37,240, almost all unskilled.

    TR total 2,091,490
    ->About 90% unskilled.

    Plus Overstayers 60,000 (ABF estimate) unskilled.

    Illegally working ‘tourist 400,000 (ABF estimate is 5% of 8 million tourists, over 1 million Chinese, massive illegal work rackets). almost all are unskilled).

    Total TR & illegal Working Tourist 2,651,490 – that’s right 2.6 million.
    And of that 2 million or more are third world unskilled.

    • The unskilled males that come through the NZ backdoor, do they all have a NZ passport or can they come through the NZ backdoor with their 3rd world passport once they have NZ PR (yet to obtain a NZ passport)?

      • Depends on whether their country of origin allows dual citizenship. China & India don’t. Others do.
        So they get the NZ residency stamp then nearly one third then enter Australia on full work rights / NZ welfare, then apply for Australia residency & citizenship. Others get the NZ passport and then come over. Of if their country allows dual – they collect two passports.

        It was a very well worn path for Pacific Islanders into Australia – then the Fijian Indian exodus, Vietnamese and now the Chinese & Indians who can easily get into NZ.

        Often they are Chinese or Indians, Pakistani or Middke East or eurotrash exited from Australia / go to NZ, do the residency, work illegally pay back the agent procurer money lenders, then get back into Australia.
        Example : Indonesian Muslim 9 years here doing ‘childcare’, then exited, goes to NZ – another 4 years, works illegally to pay back the agent procurer money lender – then Fake marriage to Pakistani for cash, then into Australia on NZ residency, then Australia PR then all on welfare.

        All the bridal marriage rackets and false partners or false paper rackets flourish in NZ – half the Indian applications were found to be fraudulent.

        Auckland is just a mini me of Sydney & Melbourne.
        Inner city & now suburbs a third world migrant slum.
        Huge labour blackmarket. Ethnic run labor syndicates won’t hire NZ youth or pay proper wages, cash in hand everywhere. NZ housing converted to bunk & mattress sublet bunk share, 3 families in one house rackets.
        Vice & crime. Unassimilated migrant enclaves.

        200,000 or more of the lowest level migrants that can’t get in the Australian front door are now stacked up waiting to get into Australia via the NZ back door.
        They will come here.
        “NZ only sells two thing : milk powder & residency stamps to get into Australia”.

      • So this Indonesia Muslim works for 13 years and gets fake married just so she can get on Australian welfare? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

      • @migtronix
        To any person poor and in the third world, Australian PR is like winning tattslotto. If asylum seekers come through several safe countries to travel to Australia on unseaworthy boats wouldn’t other people who can not produce claims to justify applying for protection might not try contrived marriages to get PR, A lot of the skilled onshore migration visa grant comes from third world nationals on student visa applications with fraudulent evidence of financial means. Once they gget here, they work as many hours as they can and actively pursue PR by any means possible.

      • “Once they gget here, they work as many hours as they can and actively pursue PR by any means possible.”

        All so they can then go on welfare? That’s the bit I take issue with – nobody who works that hard does it to go on welfare…

    • ”I’m all for a skilled migrant intake that brings new & unique skills to Australia.


      I’ve been saying for years we should ONLY import people who have skills we need.

      And I’m not going to qualify it by saying “except refugees, of course”.

      • 100% The enforced UN programme is 70 years old and should be dropped. There is very little evidence that there are true “refugees” vs migrants in the programme. And even then, much has been written about first countries of safety next to the countries where refugees emanate. Saudi Arabia and Kenya and Turkey are both safe for Somali and Syrian migrants – why spend 5 years in a camp and then be sent for a life of welfare 10,000k’s away.

    • Where do all these people live? Are they concentrated in some suburbs or spread out everywhere? If there are so many I’m surprised they aren’t more visible?

      • Seen George st, Sydney, lately, the UTS end, it’s wall to wall massage parlors and students, Its the new kings cross

      • They are visible.
        Of the 1.6 million migrants with citizenship or PR we have at least over 650,000 of those as unskilled & third world origin in each city – Sydney or Melbourne.
        The ABS 2016 census data shows that.
        Of the additional 2.6 million TR / illegal working tourists (see data reference above) its over 1.1 million unskilled third world origin in each city.
        So 1.7 million unskilled third world migrants in each city or about one third.
        Where do they live ?
        Depends on the ethnic group enclave & arrival basis.

        **Maybe MB should organise a Sydney migrant slum tour ? **

        Start in CBD – high rise subletting bunk & mattress share / marvel at the 14 migrants in a 2 bed unit with bunks & ricecookers and how only 2 or 3 tenants are declared as income, the rest cash in hand by the foreign landlord/syndicate.

        Along broadway, around Ultimo, Pyrmont, down to the new mascot square cage housing, Ashfield inner West Burwood Stratfield 3 migrant families per dwelling, then onto Rhodes recreation of a high rise complete Asian slum – back over to Auburn Muslim & Chinese enclave, the Lakemba & get stared at as the only Australians many have seen in weeks, then Bankstown via Cabramatta an old slum, villawood, over to north parramatta, the filth & squalor Indian & mixed, then out to the heaving slums of Liverpool & Blacktown out west.

        Then back via say via Ryde gladesville & Chatswood higher class ghettos to complete the loop.

        Maybe visit an English college and observe the 40 year old Indians on fake papers all working 60 hours a week illegal asleep during the ‘course’ delivered by a fellow foreign migrant or the Vet course of 14 year old high school business studies dressed up as a diploma being delivered to a near empty class of Thai & Chinese vice workers as a visa alibi.

        A quick tour of UNSW third year accounting evening class – where the students three years into a four year visa course cant speak English and don’t know a what a cash flow or income statement is.

        Then coffee at 711 to chat with a typical Indian illegal worker, Caltex, then tour of Coles shelf stacking & warehouse. Then back to the inner city as the Australian homeless bed down for the evening around town hall station – as a flood of migrants literally step over or swirl around the Aussie homeless on their way to or from their ‘cash in hand’ jobs.

        Finally an optional evening tour of the vice industry – exclusively run & staffed by migrant TR & illegal tourists.

  5. What a star Diick is. What a bucket of shit the Drum is. Who would give any of them a job? Stacked panel? I thought I was watching Q & A! Closed minds? Makes CNN look like Voltaire. Just plain stupid and unrepresentative of Australians, only the hubris of the lobbyists.

      • Yep, a populist politician in Australia needs to take on the “fake news” like Trump did. The ABC deserves it even more than CNN did. The time has come for abandoning the craven “centre right” policy of “you can’t fight the lefty media”. You can, actually, and the national interest requires us to.

        FMD this persecuted conservative bullshit is just surreal.

        Two decades of high immigration policy within a larger thirty year period completely owned and driven by right-wing neoliberalism, with goals of suppressing wages, busting unions, undermining public services, goosing GDP and generally screwing over the working classes to further enrich the already wealthy.

        Yet over the last few years this has been pivoted to the product of ‘open border lefties’.

        Because, you know, ‘librul media’ (LOL).

        Must really burn you guys up that what most people consider “modern society” (secularism, separation of powers, individual rights, free speech, democratic representation) is the product of “the left”.

    • ABC moved Q & A to News and Current Affairs so it would become more balanced………..please! ABC News & Current Affairs is one of the most far extreme left organisations in western media (fascist-left) aligned closely with the US’s corporate media (fascist-right). Remember a few days before the US election their hyperbole ventilated “Hillary Clinton had a 92.3% chance of winning the US election”.

  6. Society is largely just a reflection of its betters w/ the belief the unwashed hold in their narrative, only when the belief wavers, after high fail rates [mimicking betters] does the potential for change occur….

    disheveled…. the interim between periods has been known to send some around the twist…

    • This one got so convoluted and tangled with previous experience of the “great suspender” I doubt it would be understood by anyone but its divine maker.

      • Djenka…

        That’s the real scary bit, no divine or singular agency, imagine a bunch of “focus groups” basically working for the same ideology, but on separate axis to rule over it all. That’s not counting all the fudged data seeking vindication which ultimately sets these focus groups off on lost patrols or defending inaccuracy, brand image is everything.

        disheveled…. the unwashed heads will be pudding soon…. if not most currently….

  7. reusachtigeMEMBER

    The best thing to come out of all this is that our immigration will now probably be doubled because anyone arguing against it will be called a dick. This will be great for booming house prices and exotic relations parties (for the right sort of people). Do buy now, you are missing out!

  8. Lots of ‘I’m not a racist, but…’ commentary here…
    Conflating debate about race and culture with population is a sure fire way to unleash some pretty ugly views. Aligning himself with One Nation was a mistake for Dick and undermined his argument.
    Pity because I agree with his central premise. It will now be that much harder to sell to mainstream Australia.

    • Stephen,

      “… It will now be that much harder to sell to mainstream Australia…”

      It wont make that harder but it will make it harder to sell it to the middle class virtue signallers and big australia corporatists who control most media outlets.

      • I don’t think so Steve. Politicians will want to be elected and I have been persuaded by HnH that they will eventually do what needs to be done to make the electorate happy. I don’t think this issue can be ignored and marginalised as it has been.

    • Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face. This is a question of future generations access to affordable housing, a job market that pays a fair, livable wage, and at the extremes, a cohesive society. I’m sure future generations will admire your ideological purity when you boast that the solutions were there, but to support them you would have had to sully your ideological purity/supremacy with an untermensch like Pauline Hanson.
      The ignorance, it burns.

    • Apart from One Nation, no other political party in Australia with a member in Senate/Parliament which supports a sustainable population.

      • except PHON is not about “sustainable” population but rather “preferential type”
        Sustainable is just a convenience…

    • Actually I don’t care about name calling from people i don’t respect and don’t deal with the issues. I think it shows intellectual cowardice and caves in to those bullies who would stifle debate. If the view is the right one labelling it as coming from a “racist” does not make it wrong. If the view is wrong say why it is wrong.

    • Mainstream Australia don’t need to be sold on it. It’s only the virtue signalling lefties and media who THINK they need to be sold on it.

    • Couldn’t disagree more
      Most peeps won’t give a sh$t he aligned himself with Paulinez.
      Only purists like MB readers give a flying flick of the fast donut about that bollocks

    • Stephen, I think it should be a big red flag if the Lorax is agreeing with you 100%! Is this the Neo-Methodist Left Wing Bigots club of MB by any chance? The peculiar thing is that we now have Neo-Methodists who apparently constantly monitor MB for posts with anything to do with immigration, chomping at the bit to jump in with a Pauline Hanson spray. Your post is the epitome of narrow minded bigotry, devoid of reason it is just self righteous finger pointing. It is the same old thing, over and over and over … “Pauline Hanson is a racist witch!” If you are going to maintain this tedious denouncing, can you please at least make it a little colourful and entertaining? When Monty Python did it, we were amused – “She’s a witch! How do you know she’s a witch? She looks like one!”

      Dick Smith is putting his case and not taking any nonsense from the idiots in the media. We need more of this, because the media have shown themselves to be wormtongues. For rational arguments, LVO has so far been the gold standard, patiently rebuffing all the spurious counter arguments with facts and figures. Sadly, most people can’t comprehend rational debate, so you also need a bit of biff to stop the media running amok.

      • Agreed. And the Neo-Methodist Left Wing Bigots club are arrogantly and aggressively mistaking their views for the world. Good to see Dick give it to the wormtongues in the media.

      • Well, at least I try and make an argument. You are welcome to counter any of them, but it has to be more than just tone policing.

      • The Lorax, the arrogant people like you who shout from the top of their lungs in their echo chamber with the corrupted progressive media and far-left institutions on their side and have a violent fit when anyone expresses a racist/sexist/blah differing view is why I despair of society.

  9. Dick Smith needs professional media management. Sincerity goes so far but his reaction and the letter – and that ad was poorly executed – demonstrate that he is struggling.

  10. Dick’s problem is that by courting Hanson he destroyed his credibility with anyone the left, and it will never be recovered. The sad thing is he didn’t need to do it, and most people on the left are very sympathetic with his views on endless growth and sustainability.

    • Given the level of debate on most topics, even in here, most people who call themselves LEFT wouldn’t know their arse from their elbow. The current Left is some central city based self-appointed elite who demand more and more of the nation’s effort to be directed to their own position of privilege. The ABC is a classic example of the current ‘Left’. Bunch of bloody omphaloskeptics.
      They aren’t like any Left I ever knew but they are probably typical of what every so-called Left morphs into – inevitably.

      • Please define Left, Right and all their perumutations and manifestations so that we can be on the same page as you. Otherwise your statement is just more generalised nonsense that make you look like someone who, on this issue, appears not to know their arse from their elbow.

      • ‘every so-called Left morphs into’ + many.

        as long as you remember, the problem is that the underlying meme’s in the left encourage this kind of ‘morphing into’. The left has no defence against virtue signalling spirals, so every new person seeking to make a difference has to go further left (gay marriage is so yesterday, everyone should be able to have 4 wives and fuck children!), not cause they want to, but because it is the fastest way to gain power (cred) within the echo chamber.

        all that happens, is the people who start out become warped over time – its a mental illness. the modern left is composed of some of the dimmest people alive, who also happen to come with vast reservoirs of hate. they hate everything normal, and are only happy when others are praising them for being so virtuous. you should think of the ‘left’ as insane cultists.

      • @ footsore – its called an overton window. it is the range of acceptable political opinions a society has at any given time. The net movement of society left or right, can be understood as a shift in the overton window. Large changes are considered ‘schelling points’.

        how to exactly define a schelling point remains a matter of debate, but the move left-words or right-words can be tracked quite accurately. You simply track what are called missionaries, so large authoritative voices [politicians, news organisations, stuff that gets reported and so becomes part of the in-aggregate narrative]. Stick this content though natural language processing, and you can track specific memes (words or sequences of words) and their popularity over time. i.e. we can watch the movement of the overton window. to the best of my knowledge, no one has yet managed to do this in real time.

        explicitly, this is what the alt-right did for trump. then they used 4chan as a lab to make up new, virulent memes (rapid iteration basically), and bitch slap the left by introducing these at strategic points to influence the in-aggregate narrative.

      • This started when journalism become a course at university, which force an entire generation of journalist to be ‘brain washed’ into these kind of nonsense.

      • That’s right T.
        Dick needs to bitch slap the left to win this debate.
        Sure works with my wife and daughter.
        But they got trapped in the Overton window lby my kid fucking polygamist Muslim neighbor.
        So you guys are the alt left right? Hang on that doesn’t make sense…
        Oh I’ll save you the post Andrew… I’m a f&)(“$n muppet

      • @stephen – look… pictures: http://epsilontheory.com/notes/the-narrative-machine/

        would screenshots of this happening convince you? i mean, you believe in atoms, but have never seen one. why is this so different? the screenshots are of the narrative around brexit before and after it happened, sourced with the financial press as a dataset.

        you are asking for me to define left and right, and I am telling you it is relative to where we are. there is no fixed perpetually defined left and right. It only seems that way when you have a small population with limited genetic/memetic diversity. Remove this constraint, i.e. large population + immigration, and all bets are off. At this point, we can only look at left/right in a relative pattern, hence overton window.

        To stretch the analogy (considerably), up and down make sense in newtonian physics, but do not make sense in the relativistic world right – its kind of like that.

      • Overton Window
        Hither and thither it slides
        What is it for?

        All the foolish people
        Where do they all come from?
        All the foolish people
        Where do they all belong?

        Pollies it maddens much
        Wondering just who it guides
        Nowt to be seen

        All the foolish people
        Where do they all come from?
        All the foolish people
        Where do they all belong?

        Wait by the window
        Reflections flit as they stare at it
        Begging for more

        All the foolish people
        Where do they all come from?
        All the foolish people
        Where do they all belong?

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        @Footsore “Please define Left, Right and all their perumutations and manifestations”

        Left: People “the right” say are terrible
        Right: People “the left” say are terrible
        Elites: People that make narcissists and neurotics feel inadequate in some way.

      • flawse, I have always been a left winger – but now I vote for SAP. Ermington Plumbing is a left winger who remains a member of the ALP. I used to be very poor when I was a kid and know what it is like. Anyway, the ALP/LNP want our wages to continue shrinking – so they want perpetual poverty. Fortunately I have never been homeless. But it is absolutely outrageous that the Greens did nothing for the homeless when they had Gillard over a barrel.

        Of course I hate mass low-wage immigration. But I also hate the ban on luxury bathrooms – not that I can afford one.

      • flawse, I have always been a left winger – but now I vote for SAP.

        Not sure why there’s a “but” in this sentence. SAP are a textbook centre-left social democratic party, just like the Greens. Labor haven’t been in this policy space for decades.

        As a lefty you don’t really have anywhere else in Australian politics to go (except maybe the odd independent).

      • “Dick needs to bitch slap the left to win this debate”

        “Dick needs to bitch slap the left to win this debate”

        Sure, go for it, but while the business community wants strong population growth I’m sure their Labor and the Coalition sock puppets will keep the pedal to the metal. They’ll just unite and ignore any pressure to slow the rate of immigration. At any rate this isn’t left-right issue. There are plenty of us progressives on here that believe the current rate of immigration is too high, and there are plenty of “right wing” groups that lobby hard for high immigration rates.

      • Democratic is not a word that I would associate with the Greens.

        Yet over here in reality they are easily one of the most democratic parties in Australia, in structure, actions, and policy.

      • @skippy – you know what is terrifying? the people who end up on the far left, were probably actually some on the nicest people, who wanted to help the most. the system crushes them into something unrecognizable. its a goddamn tragedy.

    • Oh noes! He lost the pearl clutching pride priders inner city feckless douchebags. And he’ll never get them back *swoon*

      • Hi Mig, how are things? However you want to characterise that group, he alienated them and he didn’t need to. My social media feed is now full of Dick Smith is a racist which wasn’t the case back in 2010 when he did the Population Puzzle and Gillard was calling for a sustainable Australia.

        What is more important to you, pissing off the left or getting a good policy outcome?

      • A lot has happened since 2010 Lorax, mostly transjustice cis-sexual tri-gender BS for your camp. These people were already lost, nothing do with PH. I mean, I think he should stay away from that tar baby but not because of the lunatic left

      • Lol. Lorax you self select who you flow on Twitter! Drop those GreenLeft trolls, bad for the brain.

        On my brief foray on Twitter I followed a broad church, not interested solely in sheltered workshops of confirmation bias.

      • I imagine, Pfh, that of the broad church he followed, he antagonised a particular sect – the blue ticked ones 😂

      • Mig, I would include the broad moderate left in the group that is uncomfortable about any association with Hanson. Indeed I’d say a good 70% of the population falls into that category. Sadly the other 30% seems over-represented at MB these days. My question remains, why did Dick associate himself with Hanson in any way shape or form. It was never going to win his cause any support, and has lost plenty. I just don’t get it.

      • I’m not entirely convinced of that Lorax – he’s lost the perpetually outraged but so far I think that’s about it. I do agree with you, however, that I don’t think the association is particularly profitable with plenty of down side. So why do it? I don’t know either

      • My question remains, why did Dick associate himself with Hanson in any way shape or form. It was never going to win his cause any support, and has lost plenty. I just don’t get it.

        It is certainly difficult to understand why. It’s clear they have little in common other than a (superficial on ON’s part) concern about the environmental impacts of population growth.

    • A lot of the left are psychos and are irreparable. Trying to appease them too much is futile. All a lot of them have is self esteem created by moral superiority, take that away they’d have nothing. This is a very narcissistic age.

      • Unfortunately Owen our society is becoming so narcissistically driven to extreme views, that consensus is difficult. Professionals refuse to speak out due to 18C & other social policies preventing free speech. Medical and Biological science cannot be used because questionable manufactured social beliefs take precedence.

      • That’s it if you were to take away the moral superiority their job titles and self worth would go back to being aptly encompassed by Australian vernacular with words like shitkicker and bullshit artist.

      • Professionals refuse to speak out due to 18C & other social policies preventing free speech. Medical and Biological science cannot be used because questionable manufactured social beliefs take precedence.

        Uh huh. For example ?

    • Are they really Lorax? What evidence do you have for that.
      Most people on the left appear to be sympathetic to endless migration…

      I would say Dick’s natural audience has nothing to do with left and right
      It’s to do with those being left behind

      I would consider myself left on social issues and centre-left on finance and his alignment with Pauline exercises my hackles precisely this much: zero.

  11. MB is doing an excellent job of keeping this issue in the media because the mainstream media are a total disgrace. I hope more people read MB

  12. “Little Australia” is for little minds.

    I do sympathise with DS and his fervour but I agree with the Drum on this. Better planning, not closed doors, are what’s needed.

    • “better planning not closed doors” – how can you plan when you refuse to close the door? Your response to every failure will be “more planning” when the answer is clearly shut the fucking door is step 1 of the next plan…

      • If Little Australia is for little minds, then Closed doors are for closed hearts.

        Come on guys, there’s a big exciting future ahead of us. You can be so much better than this.

        Think Big!

      • Kipron the only people I know who don’t close doors are people who were born in tents, aka the homeless. Every day is an exciting adventure when you have no security, right? Do you close your heart every time you close the front door to your house? Save us the schmaltzy, infantile pep talk pal.

    • Even StevenMEMBER

      Should we up the immigration intake then, Kipron? 500k a year? A million a year?

      After all… we just need to plan better, right?

    • I know the prospect of the Tiges knocking off the Cats is exercising everyone right now, but one mustn’t forget ones Sarc tags

    • We can’t afford it!

      Immigration? Yes.

      Growing at the rate we have been? No.

      Stop making it about something it is not about: it is about too much of a good thing causing problems; not about whether we should grow the population or not!

      You can’t “just plan” – has anyone stopped to think about whether we can ACTUALLY DO IT? There are realistic limitations, and we are exceeding the rate of change we can cope with – it’s that simple.

      Sure, grow the population….just slower.

      Stop making the narrative about something it is not about.

      My 2c

      • Great post, Burbwatcher. There is nothing wrong with immigration, but the current rate is just not sustainable. It’s as simple as that. Sadly many seem to want to use this issue to attack their political enemies.

    • ” Better planning, not closed doors, are what’s needed.”

      Ship might have sailed on that one, but shit yeah, we’d best not try and minimise any further problems down the line. Let’s just keep doing what we’re doing. Heaven forbid we be described as “small-minded”!

    • You know full well that it’s not happening and there is no sign that it will happen in the near future. Even the open borders leftist morons would rather talk about identity politics than do real work like this. The right is hooked on public/private toll roads and gouging.

      Add to that you have feral nimbys on both sides. As long as they keep their leafy neighbourhoods they couldn’t give a stuff about anyone else. They are criminals.

      100% proof that as a country we are simply incapable and incompetent. It’s like asking a 10 year old to become a professional engineer.

    • quality trolling Kipron, you forgot the other line – cutting immigration won’t build more homes – that must have taken days to think up

    • It’s foolish to think that simply getting a new govt will fix anything, urban planning is done by public servants with a long standing culture and that ain’t going anywhere.

    • I do sympathise with DS and his fervour but I agree with the Drum on this. Better planning, not closed doors, are what’s needed.

      “Better planning, not closed doors” is pretty much exactly what Dick is arguing for.

      Though his version of “better planning” does include _fewer_ (not zero) immigrants.

    • ‘“Little Australia” is for little minds.’
      Hey that’s a catchy slogan. Maybe we can repeat it like parrots and get on Q&A.
      ‘Better planning, not closed doors, are what’s needed.’
      Did you read Dick’s letter? Are you being deliberately disingenuous or just lack comprehension skills?

    • Better planning by who? Paid for with what? Starting when? Oh, and how many are we planning for again? Never mind. Just keep ’em coming. Whatever happens I’m sure it’ll better than being called names by intellectual pygmies on panel shows.

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      Wow – that’s the sh1t he is up against! Population and house prices to the moon… woo hoo!!

    • Geordie
      Thanks for oyur replyre the bridge building. Imports don’t necessarily become foreign debt. If you have abalanced economy with a balanced external account they don’t because you have the exports to cover your purchases. In Australia’s case we’ve been running a Current Account Deficit continuously (except one year) since 1959!!! So every bitof extra import becomes a debt. The crushing effect of that debt has been obviated by selling every business asset, mine, public asset and now houses to foreigners in order to get foreign currency.
      You’re right! If/when you try to correct all this with the sor tof policies you mention, as well as regulating the capital account, we’ll have an outright disaster.
      The answers lie back in time.

  13. why are so many people here so frantic about dick reaching out to ON? oh no, now the respectable and “educated” left will never support him!!!!!!!!!!!

    GET REAL. they would never have to begin with.

    have any of you ever tried to have an honest rational discussion with most of the pro-open borders set on immigration whatsoever? invariably they will rely upon the tendency of most people to shirk away from their positions by accusing them of racism, “blaming the immigrants” or any of that trash. if, continued to press, they will start actually throwing up semi-arguments, the same lame crap we’ve debunked over and over again (aging population, immigrants are more productive, blah blah blah), then, if you further refute those points, without receding ground, they will either disappear from the discussion or terminate it – visibily annoyed, post haste.

    if you encounter that same person again at a later date – even if only a week later – and the conversation trends towards the same topic, you will be awestruck. it will be as though that prior conversation never even took place – and the cycle just described – will repeat itself anew.

    the moment i realised this was the moment i began to hate them.

    there is only one hope for actually winning this, and it lies with the right. while perhaps for not necessarily the most “wholesome” of reasons, especially to the more neurotic worrywort set that we regularly encounter on macrobusiness, they are the only people inclined, in the numbers necessary, to catalyze political change towards immigration restrictionism. and probably ever will be.

    the sooner we realise this is the sooner we can actually start affecting real change.

    • Don’t let them assume the narrative – tell them, “That’s not what this is about”.

      Take away their perceived moral and intellectual superiority by telling them their basic position is irrelevant, and assert what it ought to be: too much of a good thing, too fast.

  14. Tassie TomMEMBER

    “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

    They’re certainly not ignoring him – are they laughing at him or fighting him?

    I’m sorry that you’ve been treated like this Dick. Keep up the good fight for Australia.

  15. The ABC is simply exercising their power. To them there is no issue to be addressed except to exercise their power. Therefore, there is no way forward except any way forward that works on their power base.

  16. Anybody who takes seriously, the suggestion that politicians are worried about the ABC calling them names, needs their head read.

    One would have hoped Dick is not sucked in by this sort of transparent distraction tactic, but it seems he is going to be a very effective useful idiot in their campaign to cripple and destroy the ABC.

  17. Dick Smith shat the bed by palling up to Pauline. Any moral authority he had and any hope of an intelligent debate evaporated in that moment.

    It was a spectacular and unnecessary own-goal.

      • Who has he convinced that didn’t already agree with him?

        I suspect a fairly large chunk of the people who ostensibly agree with him don’t actually agree with him

        Eg: Dick wants to significantly increase the humanitarian immigration intake.

    • Indeed.

      actually 0:2 (in football terms) when he singled out PHON as the only support-worthy folks completely disregarding Sustainable Australia Party

    • Tassie TomMEMBER

      You can hardly blame him – UE’s been palling up with Andrew Bolt after all.

      It’s amazing what people will do when they’re desperate to get their (absolutely correct) message out.

  18. In a weird way I actually agree with Dick and if the land we call Australia’s was to remain forever under the control of descendent’s of current Australians than I’d be all for Dick’s solutions. But that’s where we depart.
    You see I don’t believe that Australia can or will remain a curious underpopulated Anglo enclave to SEAsia. Short term sure it’ll remain much as it was protected by US hegemony. As the US fades so to will our ability to act in a manner that reflect our own best interests, that’s when it gets serious.
    History is full of stories of forgotten nations that had a plan.
    Does anyone honestly believe Manchurians planned to be successively invaded and occupied by the Chinese, Russians, Japanese and Koreans, Did they plan to be ground zero for the wars that were fought to acquire control of the resources buried beneath the ground in Manchuria? I’ve got a sneaky feeling that nobody in Manchuria really foresaw what was to happen, if they had this foresight than they would probably have acted a little differently
    If’ you’re after a more Anglo focused example than look no further than Egypt/Palestine/Levant, it’s kind of hard to believe that Palestinians at the turn of the 20th century foresaw that their homeland would be carved up and given to their historic enemy while they themselves were imprisoned and made stateless.
    History is simply not kind to the people of nations endowed with globally valued natural resources, their long term fate is rarely under their direct control. The best long term chance for such nations is to efficiently deliver what the rest of the world wants of them.
    In Australia’s case they want our resources and they want our lands, our job is to efficiently serve the ongoing needs of the global community OR suffer the consequences.

    • +many
      the most sensible and pragmatic comment on this thread.
      The trick is doing it so the benefits flow to the home base, this is not happening ATM.

      • I hope I didn’t imply that we (as in All Australian’s) should not benefit from our rather unique situation.
        The real trick is to deliver what your customer thinks he/she wants while making a mottza from the process.

      • Thank you, “most stupid” is at least a differentiated position, making it unlike the mindless drivel that underpins most MB posts.

      • Fisho I would consider your argument the most mindless of all. The old give it away or else it’ll be stolen argument. Fuckin retarded and cowardly. There’s a thing called the military and nukes. The US will never give away their top dog status without WW3.

      • “most mindless” and “F’in Retarded and cowardly”…Wow, .I guess my opinion is not simply differentiated it’s Very differentiated, not sure how I’m Cowardly, but it did fit well in the sentence so I’ll give you a pass on that.

      • Fisho it’s just one of the moronic boomer arguments I’ve heard as a cover for their property investment treason. Makes them sound self important and strategic rather than what they really are, a boorish hillbilly cnt.

    • Wot? I know you know history better than that so what’s your angle? Egypt and Palestine had been in ottoman empire for aeons and, like everywhere else the Masons turned up, had been agitating for independence all through 19thC. Manchuria had lost its vision at least 200 years before, becoming incredibly myopic and insular, sealed their own fate which is why everyone else swept in…

      • Having an Angle would suggest that I have a hidden agenda, I’d say that I’m a little too transparent to ever hide an agenda. Ipso facto I have no “Angle”

      • A) that’s not ipso facto it’s QED
        B) I didn’t say it was hidden just obscure to me..

        Also I like the way you capitalised angle almost reads like Anglo 😉

      • QED Really? quod erat demonstrandum I’d only ever use that in English if the conclusion was demonstrated as the logical consequence of a sequence of facts as opposed to the direct consequence of a single fact. but hey your Latin is probably better then mine.

      • “Having an Angle would suggest that I have a hidden agenda, I’d say that I’m a little too transparent to ever hide an agenda.” you just demonstrated, rather than let the definition fall out, so yes it is. A series can consist of single element – I know you know this from set theory too so stop being a douchebag

    • And the East European Jews are not the historic enemy of Palestinians and the endemic kind had been there with the rest all along.

    • Let me put it this way:

      If you say travelling around the circumference back to starting point you encounter four right angles, ipso facto it’s a rectangle – that’s correct
      If you say its not a circle because if you travel around the circumference back to the starting point you encounter four right angles, you’ve demonstrated it’s a rectangle and not a circle.

      Q. E. D. 😊

  19. Our population growth rate is set to decline as our natural growth declines dramatically.
    That is the reality.

  20. Best thing about all of this is Macrobusiness and readers are talking about, openly acknowledging, bias exists at the ABC.

    Some have banged on about ABC bias for years. Welcome aboard.

    And yes, Dick Smith needs professional PR on this – did he take a film crew to Ultimo?

  21. FiftiesFibroShack


    Fund the campaign and find some people that have media skill to front it. If you’ve had people advising you on this campaign you should fire them immediately.

  22. The high immigration intake is required to keep the housing Ponzi scheme going. If the demand falls away – the Emperor has no clothes. The housing bubble is basically one big scam. Now the final part of the Ponzi Scheme entails interest only mortgages (despite the 30% cap) – the desperate last grasp of leveraging one up to keep the prices inflated. I cannot see an easy way out of this mess. I think Dick Smith is finding out that there are far too many vested interests in the mix who don’t want the status quo rocked.

    • I’m interested in the outcome should immigration dramatically decline or housing prices fall (which I gather readers see as connected). A week or two ago someone here wrote of the dire effect on the economy should immigration/housing fail. I think this needs to be fleshed out as obviously that kind of pain will not be acceptable to most, especially if initiated by a political party.

      • Are you serious? What happens if the Ponzi scheme fails….ahm same thing that happens to all Ponzi schemes would seem to be the clearest answer.
        If Sydney housing returns to reasonable ratios say 5 times Median wage (single wage that is) than were talking about median Sydney houses selling for less than $300K.
        F-me what happens to the other $600+K in “value” that implied by our $1M median house valuations. What happens to the industries built on the premise that this is sustainable? what happens to the bond holders that made these loans? what happens to employment?
        The follow-on contagion was probably manageable if Sydney RE had devalued in sync with the US (if $500K house in 2008 had revalued to say $350K in 2012) than we’d be now building on solid asset valuation foundations….but that’s not what happened
        So what happens now when Sydney RE normalizes?
        It’s so scary that nobody even wants to contemplate such an event and everything imaginable will be done to prevent this from ever happening, however each round of insanity only serves to amplify the gaping disparity between purchase price and utility value wrt Sydney housing.

      • Unwittingly you are echoing my concerns. Proponents of policies to reduce housing costs generally don’t include the associated negatives – which are substantial! This is why in truth it is very difficult to address politically.

        Is it better to be honest about the fallout, the pain that will be incurred by many, rather than ignoring it. I don’t know although at present I think the arguments ignore reality. And you have to harness that to win the debate.

      • Um bonds still get paid when the value of the house decreases – you’re talking about defaults which can happen at any price point. The mechanism for the defaults is the thing – drop in demand for credit causes a dearth of liquidity to draw payments from…

        RBA can piss out as much liquidity as your perverted arse can swallow (analogy not aimed at you but a general lament)

      • I’m interested in the outcome should immigration dramatically decline or housing prices fall (which I gather readers see as connected)

        LvO has made this observation repeatedly:

        “The sad reality is that there are now entire business lines, firms and sectors across Australia whose business models rely heavily on the systematic undermining of wages and, worse, running virtual slave labour.”

        These businesses are a big chunk of how the ponzi operates in Australia. Another aspect is that new entrants to the Australian workforce consist of around 300k people educated here (Australians turning 18 each year) plus net migrants of around 200k. That is, we rely on overseas governments to educate around 40% of our new workers

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        “I’m interested in the outcome should immigration dramatically decline or housing prices fall (which I gather readers see as connected).”

        We could be lucky and experience a small recession should one engine of the Ponzi stall, but just one failing during a downturn would be unlikely. 26 years without a recession and during that period we’ve hollowed out anything productive and borrowed or sold to fund our consumption. It’s hard to see how it will be pretty.

    • Simone
      Unfortunately that’s me probably! The consequences will be dire. I don’t have time to write all out now but happy to again some time. Stop immigration and collapse the housing/retail/debt Ponzi and the whole economy will collapse. The distortions are now some six decades in the making . The whole economy is one giant retail/housing Ponzi plus a few holes being dug in isolated areas and farmers who have battled an way over-valued dollar for 60 years. Housing collapses, retail collapses, restaurants coffee shops et al all go with it. Imagine what it will look like.
      The answers lie back in time. It should have never been let get to this.

      • The answers lie back in time.
        Hmmm…Implies that there was once a time when Absolutes made some sort of sense. I guess this requires a time when absolute ratios were reliable indicators of value.
        Personally I find it most unlikely that such a time-point has ever existed, except possibly in the minds of people that would wish for this form of absolutism to exist.
        For me all Valuations are Derivative and therefore extract their Price (some might say Value) from the Rate-of-Change of the controlling metrics.
        All suggests that what’s really important to any society is the Direction that we are traveling in rather than the Absolute position that we occupy.

      • So , would we relapse to the Australia of 60years ago?
        I remember it well.
        1 income , 44hr week, provided a house, car, camping holiday in home made caravan,food ( Mutton chops 5 days a week), 2 bob pocket money that got me into the Saturday matinee’ ,6 pence, some lollies 3 pence) if i needed more money I would take a sack up to Lang Park on Sunday, watch the 3 grades play, and collect soft drink bottle for 3 pence each. I would clear 10 bob easy.
        Did not have TV, read books,listend to radio , made billy carts from the tip, bought gunpowder (fireworks), left the house after breakfast and was not expected back til dark. Hung out with mates, bikes , bush, shaghi’s, local pool, bred budgies under the house, kept a horse in backyard Rosalie (now Paddington) rode out to the Gap on W/E’s.
        Rosalie was a very multi racial area, Irish Aus, Italian, Greek, Russian, German(not so many), Polish, Dutch, Scandanavian,
        Spanish, English, Lats, Balts.
        Looking back there was a lot to like.

      • Yes, I think it might have been you Flawse. I can see how there are a lot of people who would,not want to see the house of cards crumble. Isn’t that half the reason for central banks and quantitative easing are mandatory, the edifice must be maintained.

  23. The Drum just shows that the ABC should be closed down or sold. Its left wing bias will be picked up by another group who can run it as a legitimate commercial business and not be propped up by the poor taxpayer.

    • Shaun Micallef is one of the few reasons not to close the ABC. He quite often makes witty (& telling) remarks about the SJW stances of the ABC. The Drum just gets people who don’t understand numbers (e.g. the sort of meaningful stuff LVO provides) but have entrenched SJW views so can’t actually have a meaningful discussion on the question of how much immigration is good, or when it’s too high so as to damage our living standards (hands over ears time).

      • Agreed. The ABC has some good and bad. Not in favour of getting rid of it but the likes of the drum need an enema. I watched some of the drum (as much as I could take without throwing up) on another issue and the echo chamber was obvious. A report online about the episode quoted twitter posts as some sort of vox pop but a quick check of the twitter sources showed how much of an incestuous echo chamber they operate in. They purport to have a ‘debate’ or ‘discussion’, but no such thing takes place.

  24. Dick Smith – and those like Sustainable Australia who support associated views with respect to quantitative [ instead of qualitative ] immigration limits – is without proper robust academic vindication on this aspect.

    The ABC’s related delivery was exceptionally good and unbiased. Get real, folks !!

  25. Has anyone posted this on reddit lol? I know the Pavlovian conditioned Q&A fed sheep effect is strong, but I am still flabbergasted and find it hard to believe that the ABC has this much sway over politicians in this country.

  26. It’s amazing how such a simple issue generates so much blabber.
    The question is simply what RATE of immigration is manageable (in terms of managing the effects thereof), and what is the longer term population goal. Nothing to do with race or religion etc.
    For my part I’m quite satisfied that the current rate is too high.

  27. Can someone tell me how he has aligned with One Nation? He’s merely said he would donate two million to a party that has a proper population policy and at the moment One Nation is winning. FFS

  28. Gezzz everyone…..

    Hanson has a past that can never be washed off, never, because her political views were highly xenophobic e.g. all of Australia’s problems were due to non white anglophones full stop [bit singed was ok]. In fact she wrapped herself in the bloody flag ffs.

    After that it seems she got a taste of the good life being a public figure for those with means and some that did not want the publicity or the means to advocate their agenda. Don’t think she wants to ever go back to retail F&B – eva – that would be going down the ladder.

    Come on the burka stunt in Parliament really.

    Now Dick wants a channel to get more eyeball on his views becuase the two main stream party’s won’t give him any oxygen and then decides to do a PR thingy with the wranger…. duh… its like dropping ammo into the oppositions camp…

    Disheveled…. file under past Bob Day expectations….

    • So according to your logic, every single person in Japan is a vile racist for maintaining an ethnically homogenous population? And everyone in Australia up until a few decades ago?

      If I moved to Mumbai, I doubt I’d be treated like an Indian (and nor should I), despite whatever documents/status the government gave me.

      P.s. agree on burkka stunt, just stupid and inflammatory.

      • Just to add, this globalist multi-cultural propaganda is designed to screw us all (whatever nation) as we move into an Orwellian, anti-family (the feminist propaganda in the mainstream dividing men and women and lowering fertility) authoritarian police state. Again, if it’s being promoted by the mainstream media, you’re on the wrong horse (imo).


        Ok, that’s enough truth bombs for this arvo!

      • If you understood logic you would not make such an absurd comparison. Japan has a history that is epochs above whatever some consider Australian. The Australia we know today has only one original ethnic group and by your logic are you saying that’s the one that should be dominate. Then we have the whole Japan as a vassal state post WWII issue.

        Look my point is about Dick thinking anything Hanson was a bright idea, en fin.

        disheveled…. to make it simple for you Andrew…. neoliberalism embraces all, regardless of colour, ethnicity, religious, or any other sociological reasons…. you just have to bend the knee to it….

      • Dude she’s a fraud. 20 years ago she was crying about Asians and now when people say “man you were right about Asians” she cries Muslims. Why not just accept the success? To push fear porn

      • mig… I wouldn’t be surprised if she was there as controlled opposition, the equivalent of that idiot Alex Jones in the truth movement.

      • “If you understood logic you would not make such an absurd comparison.Japan has a history that is epochs above whatever some consider Australian . The Australia we know today has only one original ethnic group and by your logic are you saying that’s the one that should be dominate. Then we have the whole Japan as a vassal state post WWII issue.”

        If only you understood logic…

        ” Japan has a history that is epochs above whatever some consider Australian ” appealing to tradition

        ” The Australia we know today has only one original ethnic group and by your logic are you saying that’s the one that should be dominate” begging the question

        “Then we have the whole Japan as a vassal state post WWII issue” strawman

      • Mig-i

        “Japan has a history that is epochs above whatever some consider Australian ” appealing to tradition

        No mig-i its acknowledging historical fact, not to mention the whole argument about excessive immigration is based on tradition. Pretty weird coming from a free market bloke like yourself imo.

        Begging the question.

        No Andrew equated Japan to Australia as if they were the same, they are not, in Andrews framing the original ethnic group has more rights than anyone else. I just pointed it out.

        We are a vassal state post WWII mig-i, your own words about Jindalee mate.

        dishevled…. don’t confuse logic with rhetorical devices kid…. might have something to do with all the shitty code out there…

      • “No mig-i its acknowledging historical fact, not to mention the whole argument about excessive immigration is based on tradition” so yes it is?

        “Begging the question.

        No Andrew equated Japan to Australia as if they were the same” so two wrongs make a right?

        “your own words about Jindalee mate.” appealing to authority…

        How do you like my rhetoric now? 🤣🤣

      • Mig-i…

        Anyone with a vast history of fundamentalism wrt the Mise mobs should be banned from using logical pleas about authority….

      • Wow. Anyone whose grasp of rhetoric and logic is so weak as to advocate, without primary cause but invoking a personal dereliction, the suppression of countervailing opinions – is easily and handily beaten in any debating society.

        Fuck off back to seconds rugby dad….

      • “suppression of countervailing opinions”

        Yeah that’s the chip on your shoulder eh miggie…. hint opinions without any grounding in fact are just opinions… cough bias. I though the whole ex nihilo axiom and in your case synthetic a prori [see newman and nash et al] was sorted.

        I stand by my original statement about the massive differences between Japan and Australia from an observational aspect as well as the implications about ethnicity and rights. Japan did not invade itself, Australia was, hence claims to property, otherwise the process by which logic is used is selective by means of observer preferences over broad application.

    • “Now Dick wants a channel to get more eyeball on his views becuase the two main stream party’s won’t give him any oxygen and then decides to do a PR thingy with the wranger…. duh… its like dropping ammo into the oppositions camp… “

      Short term success… long term cul-de-sac.

    • “Don’t know why he couldn’t have just done ads selling SAP.


      Dick’s disdain for SAP was furthered last week when he said that *only* PHON has qualified for his support so far…

      Perhaps because PHON is parliamentary party and SAP is not?
      End justifies the unscrupulous means?

  29. Toby Ralph:

    “I am very concerned that he is a guy who won’t vote for a Party that he is about to give $2 million to..”

    Many organisation give lots of money to Parties the chiefs don’t vote for. Toby what a clown.