Media, Gender & Employment: Reframing the Narrative (somewhat)

 

Well, a big week for headlines about the employment impacts of COVID19 and Australian workplaces seems to have our media operating under the perception that the bulk of the impact is being worn by women, and from there that they are being shortchanged in the budget responses. A quick google of the headlines turned up the following….

To be honest I hadn’t actually thought that much about it, but assumed it to be largely true.  A generation ago I had traipsed across a few workplaces – both private and public – and seen as much myself.  But knowing that there was a government agency compiling statistical data on the Gender balance of larger Australian employers, the Workplace Gender Equality Agency, it seemed some data might help shed light on the extent of the phenomena.

The Banks were the first cab off the rank.  Most of the figures came from the 2019 reports, and they showed a slight female skew in gender profile.

Banks Female % Male % Employee Numbers
NAB 52.1% 47.9% 28483
ANZ 53.7% 46.3% 20247
CBA 57.8% 42.2% 32845
WBC 57.2% 42.8% 29786

Then came the idea of sussing out the retailers.

Retail Female % Male % Employee Numbers
Coles Supermarkets 51.3% 48.7% 115843
Woolworths Group Limited 54.5% 45.5% 171060
Aldi 43.2% 56.8% 12526
JB Hi-Fi Group 40.2% 59.8% 8381
Metcash 31.5% 68.5% 5912

Then the Telcos

Telco Female % Male % Employee Numbers
Telstra 29.2% 70.8% 27279
TPG 21% 79% 1613
Optus Administration 30.1% 69.9% 6179

Accounting and Audit

Accounting/Audit Female % Male % Employee Numbers
Ernst & Young Services Trust 50.9% 49.1% 7528
KPMG AUSTRALIAN SERVICE TRUST 49% 51% 7361
PricewaterhouseCoopers Services Trust 53.3% 46.7% 7803
Deloitte Services Trust  48.4% 51.6% 9017

Then a glimpse at Media

Media Female % Male % Employee Numbers
Nine Entertainment 44.1% 55.9% 4621
News Limited 49.7% 50.3% 6312
Network Ten 48% 52% 1931
ABC 52.9% 47% 4649
Southern Cross Austereo Services 51.6% 48.4% 2340

Then a smattering of others to get a glimpse of the dynamics

Selected Other Female % Male % Employee Numbers
McDonald’s Australia 51.4% 48.6% 18644
Competitive Foods Australia 49.7% 50.3% 16403
Toll 21.3% 78.7% 14704
Linfox 18.2% 81.8% 5704
Powercor 21.1% 78.9% 2034
AGL 32.9% 67.1% 3752
Ashurst Australia 67.1% 32.9% 902
Corrs Chambers Westgarth 69% 31% 959

 

Then of course it was obvious that it was the University sector which was taking a belting.  Not all are in the database, but enough were to get a general idea of the size of the issue, and to note that Australia’s Universities tend to have more female than male members of staff.

Selected Universities Female % Male % Employee Numbers
Griffith University 61.9% 38.1% 8003
Murdoch University 64% 36% 3214
James Cook University 63.3% 36.7% 3024
University of Adelaide 54.8% 45.2% 4350
Flinders University 67.4% 32.6% 3397
Curtin University 60.4% 39.6% 7476
Australian National University 52.2% 47.8% 5909
Macquarie University 58.3% 41.7% 5184
University of NSW 49.6% 50.4% 13854
University of Melbourne 58.3% 41.7% 14943
Monash University 57.1% 42.9% 15297
Deakin University 61.2% 38.8% 10612
Edith Cowan University 66.8% 33.2% 4648
Charles Darwin University 59.2% 40.8% 1626

 

From there it was worth thinking about the various State and Commonwealth Public Sectors.  They wont (yet) be getting hammered by an economic downturn, but they will have generally the best superannuation outcomes, and usually greater employment surety.

 

Let us start with the Commonwealththe APS.  It provides good data each year in the State of the Service Reports, starting with State of the Service Report 2018-19 (APSC) which provides handy classification and gender data, which can easily be matched up against relative remuneration guidance (each APS Agency will have its own workplace agreement which determines specific remuneration outcomes). Note:- given the skill with which the APSC has made the data almost indecipherable to the lay reader I have taken the liberty of compiling a chart in excel from their data (with references underneath) accompanied by both salary and remuneration data from the same report so that those outside the public sector can get a sense of how their employment world stacks up alongside.

 

And that gap has opened up vastly over the last 20 years.

 

That tells us that above SES 1 (Senior Executive Service, or Assistant Secretary – bringing home more than $200k a pop) there are 1493 men outnumbering 1287 women.  But the data is also suggesting that anywhere below that, amidst some of the safest and best superannuated positions in Australia, up to a remuneration level double the median income level for the Australian population as a whole – women outnumber men by up to 2 to 1.  Suffice it to say women aren’t being hammered here, and if anyone is thinking that a load of fatcats are being pampered by serried ranks of secretaries or administrative staff it appears that conversely there are legions of aged ladies making up the upper echelons awaiting their chance to be the Humphrey Appleby of the future.

 

In the NSW public sector the Workforce Profile Report 2019 is telling us that much the same gender profile is in place.  It is about 2 women for every guy.

Some additional data tells us that outside Transport Employees, the Gender profile is either broadly in balance or skewed to women, and that for Nurses, Teachers or School Support Staff it runs at 3 out of 4.

So that tells us that in NSW there are far more women hunkered down for the downturn than there are men.

In Victoria The State of the Public Sector in Victoria 2018–2019 (P35) has the same story playing out south of the Murray.

 

And Queensland replicates the aged and female skew with some 2020 data in March Biannual Workforce Profile (PDF, 793 KB) (QLD).

As does South Australia with the 2018-19 WORKFORCE INFORMATION REPORT  (P16)

Over in Western Australia the State of the Western Australian Government Sector Workforce Statistical Bulletins (State of the Western Australian Government Sector Workforce 2018/19 Statistical Bulletin) doesnt produce glossy brochures but does have handy excel data which reveals.

Down in Tassie the State Service Workforce Report No 1 of 2020 (TAS) has the State public sector running at more than 70% female.

Now the above doesnt include Rio Tinto and BHP, who will presumably be very male heavy in their workplace profile and which data couldnt easily be found, and for sure many of the female employees in particularly the State Sectors – nursing and teaching in particular – will be in professions where there are simply more women than men.

But far from suggesting that women are bearing the brunt of the downturn it suggests that particularly in the public sectors, there are far more women bunkered down to ride out the economic impact of the COVID19 in relatively safe employment than there are men.

None of the above is to suggest that there wont be plenty of sisters, mothers, daughters, girlfriends and wives working in small business who certainly will be worrying about their employment and who almost certainly will be on shaky superannuation ground.  Where females in employment would seem to be under significant potential threat is in the University sector, which once had good superannuation arrangements for employees (and presumably doesnt any more). Another area of large scale female employment would be the Local Government sector (anyone know where the stats are?)

Might be worth thinking about next time you see a headline proclaiming ‘pink recession’.

Comments

  1. boomengineeringMEMBER

    Some women’s advocates want women to be the same as men but they will never be. Equal or even more equal maybe but not the same.
    Years ago they had the choice to work at employment or domestic work at/from home, now that choice is gone if the the mega mortgage is to be paid, and the banks love it.
    I feel for those who would prefer the freedom to stay at home with young kids and left to use their time to their own timetable. but now left without choice.
    btw congrats to harold for WE first.

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      House prices had a ceiling of one incomes capacity to pay, but that was doubled when women got suckered into the permanent workforce. While some women have always worked non domestically full time it’s unnatural for the majority f women to do so.

      • Great summary from Gunna. It helps highlight how masses can be manipulated by loud minority groups (this time the extreme brand of feminists that even the old-school feminists are calling out), using dodgy or non-existent data and given voice by the media.

        In this age we really do need, more than ever, to think outside the square.

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          Criminal how the banks profit on the suffering of a very young child abandoned daily into a petri dish childcare centre, whilst the mother has no clue that things could be different.
          Tampering with nature, as a mothers place is with her baby and men are not supposed to get pregnant like the male baboon in the 1960’s prompted research in1984 at the Kinsey Institute symposium into men’s pregnancy

          • I’m on the same page as you Boom. My wife took 19 years out of workforce to raise family, (1 daughter, 3 sons), and happy to do it. Wasn’t easy, but we have no regrets. We’d sooner have a great family than the best house in the street.

          • The idea of a man working and a woman staying at home to look after the children is a product of upper-middle-class Victorian-era thought, briefly reinforced by post-WW2 American upper-/middle-class prosperity.

            It is not “natural”, and has not been an option for the vast majority of humanity, ever.

          • boomengineeringMEMBER

            Smithy
            It is natural for women to work but unnatural for them to emulate mens work.
            It’s also unnatural for women to put on makeup which was originally a male trait.

          • Outside of giving birth and breastfeeding, nature makes no distinctions about “mens work” and “womens work”. Nature is only about survival.

            Everything past that is people making up arbitrary rules.

          • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

            Boom you are dead right, in the REAL world i employ anyone who will work a press or wire straightener, if a women wanted to do that she is more then welcome….. but lets stay in the real world shall we, fckn smithy is not present

          • The ‘fake doctor’ is just telling you, in shrill PhD language, what life would be like in his Utopian vision. Nicolas Maduro has a good idea 😉

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        I have this argument with our workplace greeny l3sbian ladybloke all the time. If the women’s movement had of worked towards a 40hr week for the family instead of 40hr for every adult in the house then we wouldn’t have a lot of the troubles we have today. She always tries to counter with men wouldn’t have given up their hours, a claim which is met with laughter from every man in the place.

        Nobody understands that it’s all bullsh!t until the health scare comes. Then the realisation sets in but only until they see the neighbours with something that they simply must have.

          • Mining BoganMEMBER

            It’s a view garnered from the family I grew up in. Mum stayed at home until we could fend for ourselves then got herself a part time job. The old man had a health scare not long after so bounced the career for a part time gig that kept him occupied and removed the stress. Everyone had a good balance on what was essentially one wage.

            My life has pretty much followed the same route. Now me and Lovey are both part time and living stress free during the Victoria crisis because there’s no social ultimatum for more, be it for hours, stuff or money.

          • Bogan, my wife and I have said that the ideal is we both work part time, and better share domestic and family duties; as you said, it would also mean that housing is more affordable z especially with respect to single parent/income families (who get shafted by the status quo).

        • I have this argument with our workplace greeny l3sbian ladybloke all the time. If the women’s movement had of worked towards a 40hr week for the family instead of 40hr for every adult in the house then we wouldn’t have a lot of the troubles we have today.

          Pretty sure the women’s movement was just working towards women having the same work opportunities as men.

          She always tries to counter with men wouldn’t have given up their hours, a claim which is met with laughter from every man in the place.

          I’d be willing to bet most of those same men would a) be extremely not cool with their wives earning even as much, let alone more, than them and b) be unlikely to volunteer working less hours to look after kids.

          • Try not to project you’re own views onto others when framing your argument.

            I’ve no personal experience with Mining Bogan’s mates, but all the historical evidence (including several posts on this page) make it pretty fvcking clear that greeny lesbian was right and the average wannabe macho man isn’t going to give away his income earning potential so that the average woman can have more of it.

            I was actually kind of surprised that Mining Bogan – seemingly an otherwise quite sensible bloke – would think otherwise.

          • GunnamattaMEMBER

            There is an interesting observation to be had in this thread, which in with relative vituperation, has touched on 3 key myths which intersect with the gender and workplace phenomena.

            The ‘macho man’
            The ‘opportunity’ for women.
            The creation of intangible (or ‘bullshit’) jobs as opposed to the ideal of something ‘real in the past.

            On the first I tend to the view the real ‘macho man’ – as opposed to the psychopath/sociopath ‘cult of the leader’ type ‘macho man’ hasnt been in large scale workplaces in years. He may still exist on building sites or on fishing boats or somewhere there is scope to demonstrate ‘macho’, but that sure isnt within most organisations employing more than a handful of people.

            What passes for ‘macho’ in those circumstances is often a preparedness to make ‘hard’ decisions and organise for ‘follow through’. Hardness in that sense is often the hardness of not being deterred by the feelings of others, or preparedness to take ‘risk’ while organising groups of people for ‘success’ when ‘failure’ leads to negative consequences – but almost never death. It is in precisely these circumstances where a psychopath can fit in just fine, and precisely the phenomena where focus on the self (and the pay outcomes of meeting personal contractual goals) leads to a stylised cult of focus on the top, and scope for deploying rewards to subordinates on obeisance to that requirement (and implicitly rewarding an ability by them to separate themselves from ‘non essential’ ‘distracting’ or ‘real world concerns’ potentially limiting progress to those goals. It is psychopath heaven.

            As would be fairly obvious in looking through the Australian corporate/organisational landscape women are every bit as capable of that as men are, and in the case of the public services/university sector we would now appear to have a circumstance where they dominate the ranks of those at or near the top. I would note at this point (as someone who has seen the phenomena up close) the notion of ‘ability’ tends to become conflated and embodied into, if not completely subsumed by, the notion of ‘toeing the corporate or management line, no matter what’ – including often addressing subordinate staff (but also organisational customers) on the need to set aside their lived experience and their rationales for activities/actions, and to ‘drive through’ change in the context of these subordinates or customers often pointing (with greater or lesser degrees of veracity) to the downsides/consequences/implications of doing so. and explaining to those subordinates the rational of their taking the decision they take. The real leader is good at this last bit, the psychopath generally isnt, and runs a line long on ‘just do it’ and sometimes starts screaming and yelling. The psychopath will also weed out competing competencies and individuals likely to question, and often adopt a position of not knowing of an issue, or not having someone tell them of an issue is the same as that issue not existing. From there whole management chains selected to echo the leader can become a real issue.My base line position is that none of this is inherently a ‘male’ or a ‘female’ issue, except insofar as both sexes are likely to find like thinking amongst their own sex.

            The other factor alluded to is the proliiferation of relatively unskilled ‘management’ ‘team leader’ ‘supervisor’ type roles, as well as a range of roles which seem to have little real point when viewed at from outside, and often from the perspective of the individual doing the job. I have no idea of any ‘data’ or ‘psychology’ to support my perception, but I have had the thought in years gone by that fewer men are likely to be able to do ‘meaningless’ work (which is not to say none of them would be). I would from there also note that over the course of a generation there seems (to my eyes) something of a conflation of what was once HR/personnel type function with ‘strategic management’ in the context of the functions (recruitment being the prime example, but training delivery, workplace motivation and surveying, and performance management being others in the same league) to the effect that ‘management’ is all too often focused on the minutiae of inside the organisation. From there I would also observe that public sector organisations are spectacular examples of this phenomena. In a world where women are the dominant gender at all levels, this could easily take the form of managerial imperatives at local levels assuming a gender bias.

            my thoughts for the morning……(I’ll go and have another hayfever tablet now)

          • My experience is that most men couldn’t handle having a wife/gf/partner/whatever who earnt more than them, it’d be too much for their egos to deal with, plus their mates ribbing. And if I had $1 for every man who thought he was smarter than his wife I’d have retired in my 20s.

          • “My experience is that most men couldn’t handle having a wife/gf/partner/whatever who earnt more than them …”

            Wow! Where do you live? Rockhampton?

      • House prices had a ceiling of one incomes capacity to pay, but that was doubled when women got suckered into the permanent workforce.

        Yes. That ceiling you refer to only comes into play when the houses are IN SHORTAGE.

        When houses are IN ABUNDANCE they sell for COST OF PRODUCTION not some ceiling based on maximum ability to pay.

    • This one is about voices in the media. There are very few ladies who choose to stay at home and raise children who are heard from in the media. It is always the career women and because of their choices will push the women going to paid career agenda.

    • Any woman who wants to equal to a man lacks ambition.
      On the fridge at my place. I agree. I am out numbered
      I have 1 wife 2 daughters and 2 grand daughters.

    • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

      Nah – its part of the culture war and the deliberate long term dissempowering of the one segment of society that still has the potential to rise up and over throw tyranny.

      Culturally if those at the top see us as cattle to be farmed, then what do farmer usually do? They sterilize the bulls. If we’re being farmed then it makes sense to cut the balls of those who might object to you being farmed – what you end up with a population of as3xual consumers typified by you typical AntiFa and globohomo progressive.

      Of course you can’t simply go around cutting blokes nuts of (not yet anyway, although you might be able to trick a few into thinking they’re girls and getting them to cut their own off) what you have to do is cut their nuts off by silencing their voice in society, and you do it by social policy and controlling the social narrative, such that there is absolutely NO pity ever directed towards men, and white men in particular, being the most capable and most likely to rise up.

      More men dying of Covid then women, “No one would argue that women are suffering the most from Covid.”

      Australians are experiencing the worst recession in 100yrs… “That is too inclusive, because it doesn’t specifically exclude men, let’s cal it the Pink recession.”

      BTW – This problem isn’t going to go away, it is just going to get worse. There is a reason why a significant section of the population that is higher in ‘Openness’, ‘Agreeableness’ and ‘Neuroticism’ always had significant restraints in terms of how much of the social narrative they were allowed to run with (in pretty much any successful society organised higher than the mud hut) – because they inevitable fall for ridiculous fads and manias (Openness), organise dog piles and protests against those who refuse to Agree with them, and Neurotically fixate on facts that conflict with their feelings…. it ain’t blokes who platform their friends and give them the silent treatment – those are chick tactics.

      Just like the social narrative is the collective narrative of all those who participate in our society weaved together, the social personality type in terms of collective decision making, is the collective narrative of all those who participate in the creation of our social narrative. It is the combined big five OCEAN personality trait of all the members of society weaved together as one, and recently we’ve been weaving one big, [email protected], neurotic, trans3xual society fixated on bling and very little else.

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        Well said Stewie but its nothing new as all empires before they fall follow this pattern. Also the wealthier a nation gets the more dominant the women folk, as per the rat experiment. Two rats were given all their needs, a utopia existence. Population explosion ensued requiring high rise to be built and when men were no longer required the females became dominat kicking the virile males onto the streets below. At this stage homosexuality became rife and decimated the population until none left.

        • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

          It is an interesting thesis – androgeny and decadence are fetishes of late Roman antiquity that it’s elites became increasingly fixated on it. One of the Roman Emperors called Antoninus or more specifically Elagabalus was believed to have famously been transgender, and then there was the unfortunate ‘Sporus’ who Nero had castrated so he could marry her.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            True – but it reached its peak size at or about Nero, it was all down hill pretty much after that.

      • Spot on Stewie. All of this anti-male stuff makes me furious. In some occupations the girls need a hand but in many the girls get the job over better qualified boys purely because they are girls. I can’t stand the racist and sexist advertising, the rewriting of history to reflect BS sensitivities and the propaganda in the media to reflect the same BS. It is changing. Sydney MGTOW is a reflection of it and the young men are not putting up with the same BS that the previous generation tolerated,

        • A mate applied for a job with Federal govt recently and they outline quite clearly how the process is going to work. Distilled to its essence: if you are of Aborignal or Torres Strait Islander origin (and are even vaguely qualified) you’ve pretty much got the job. People from other ethnic backgrounds are encouraged to apply. They won’t go to the interview process until such time as at least one ‘credible’ female candidate is identified. Basically, if you’re white and male you’re last choice.

  2. Can I get this right – I sort of dont get it.

    I employ half a dozen guys. Every year or so I get sent some paperwork by one of the government crowd about why I dont have any females (I have had them on the books, and they were fine, but the ones I have had have moved on). But those government outfits (who send me paperwork about why I dont have more females) are staffed 2/3 by women? And our taxes pay for that?

    Does someone send them paperwork to fill in about why they dont employ more men? And do our taxes pay for that too?

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      Does anyone send them paperwork criminal proceedings for child cruelty for being in the office instead of mothering their child (if applicable).

    • What does it take to get gov clowns to see that most girls DON’T WANT certain jobs. Not all, but most. I’m in a workshop position myself, zero women at this stage. How many WANT to be bricklayers for example? You don’t see any complaints about “inequality” there. Equality is only for “NICE” jobs apparently. Maybe I’m becoming cynical as well as senile?

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Cue the story about the female apprentice brickie who fits into the jobsite thereby proving that women want to do it more, and probably get better results…although that story is usually about mechanic girl who races gocarts on the weekend…

        • Apparently female brickies are less than one percent, and I don’t find that too hard to believe. Not being critical, just real.

          Where are the extreme fems on that one?

          Crickets.

          Only “nice jobs” equality matters.

          • boomengineeringMEMBER

            That reminds me of the Greenies saving the Koala or whale, then going home and stepping on a cockroach. Ebola virus has just as much right to life as any other living organism although some endangered animals do need protecting. Then you have those that wont eat animal life but inadvertently eat the microbial life forms attached to the veg. Animal life even exists in rocks.
            They only seem to want to save the cuddly animals.

      • I part own a small firm (30 people) in property funds management. We’re about 25%/75% female/male and we get asked fairly often why we don’t have more women. The answer is because 95% of people who apply for jobs at our firm are male (maybe our work is boring?), so we’re actually batting ahead of the curve. Sometimes there is a follow up question about what we’re doing to encourage more women to join at which point I bite my tongue (because the good pay, flexible work, supportive environment etc apparently isn’t enough).

      • “…most girls DON’T WANT certain jobs …”

        Apparently, that’s complete nonsense 😉

        In the meanwhile, where’s the outrage about the lack of men in nursing? Male pole dancers …

  3. Theres another couple of stories in todays press Gunna

    ”Discarded: the Australian women over 50 left to languish in poverty’
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/10/discarded-the-australian-women-over-50-left-to-languish-in-poverty

    I am pretty sure it is tough for both men and women if they lose their gigs after maybe 45 years of age.

    Those public service stats are unbelievable – basically 2 out of every 3 people in any public service in Australia are women. Same for University. Yet its men who are the problem. Maybe some of those old public service women on 80 grand plus might like to share their positions once their pensions are equal to the median income? ………..Thought not.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Lovey falls for this. Keeps on quoting some story her mates told her about women over 50 and how they’re the fastest growth numbers in homelessness, but won’t accept that there are more homeless men than women.

      Homelessness is now about women, even if the stats say otherwise.

      • GunnamattaMEMBER

        Hang on, I dont want to give the idea that I DONT think that women losing their jobs if they are over 50 – or even 40 – is seriously bad news for them. It almost certainly is.

        I think anyone losing their job over the age of maybe 40-50 is in serious trouble unless they own their own home. I dont think of it as being a necessarily male or female thing. I think of it as a social tragedy thing. I think of it as being even more of a tragedy where – as is the case in an awful lot of cases – where there is a Mum and Dad and kids in a household stretched to the max to pay bills and mortgages and keep meat and three veg on the table, and EITHER or BOTH Mum and Dad lose their gig. That sort of thing traumatises life for both Mum and Dad (and the relationship breakdown stats are pretty ugly, when financial stress klicks in) and shatters the life of the kids – it literally leads to greater likelihood of drugs, depression, lower educational outcomes, and less likelihood of getting a decent outcome for the kids.

        I suppose the point I am making is that the most protected part of our economy – the social services and public sectors – are 2/3 staffed by women, and the stats are showing us they are mainly older women. I could add that a lot of these older women have absolutely no problem throwing older men on the scrapheap

        • Unseriously: “meat and three veg” = unwoke

          Seriously: your point about the women who occupy these comfy jobs is well taken. I, like a couple of others round here, rail against the legions of overpaid/overfed/underworked women of privilege who potter about the taxpayer funded workplaces alternating between ‘facilitating’ and acting out, usually by email, their life disappointments passive aggressively against any subordinate or peer male who is hapless enough to stray into their boresights.

          All of which boils down to the out and out apartheid between (older) working women who are the haves (as above) and those working insecure low paid casual jobs or not working at all and the sheer hypocrisy that must by definition be held by the former to allow it to continue.

          But more than this it comes down to land rents and prices. Where are all of the safe/clean/secure 1 bedroom units in capital cities near parks and public transport and health services and not on the back of a freeway that can be rented by women (or men) for $150 a week? Not even that great feminist leader Tania Plibersek managed to ponder that one when she was housing minister.

          Total frauds the lot of them.

          • All of which boils down to the out and out apartheid between (older) working women who are the haves (as above)

            I can tell you as a straight up fact – I work in APS, in Canberra. There are a load of usually heavily overweight aged women, who were told a generation ago they were discriminated against. As Gunna suggests they may have been. But they have been bred to believe they are the chosen ones, and their whim is law, and they have an entitlement. A real entitlement.

            The EL1s and 2s (most women) are always scooting off to conferences and interstate, they spend much of their time mentoring and networking, and when they retire with their PSS pensions bulging they often do a farewell tour where they expect staff in locations around Oz to lay on mornings teas so they can say tata.

            They also only promote anyone who is openly evangelical (and it is a religious fervor they want to see) about gender and diversity, and it doesnt matter how competent, how intelligent or how well credentialed that old white male applying for the job is – he is ‘wrong cohort’ and wont be getting it.

            There should be gender balance rules for every branch in the APS (and State public services too by the look of things). I knew things were bad, but didnt realise they were ‘that’ bad.

          • MountainGuinMEMBER

            Also in the APS. Female dominated agency. Couple of years back one mid level was male dominated and some loud all staff meetings all endorsed that this was wrong and needed to be addressed….. ignoring the opposite bias at all other levels in the agency and throughout the APS. Seems equity can be selectively applied.

          • The far right moron luvvy hijack club

            Also APS Canberra (Disclaimer: was once supervised by Gunna, and hung around long enough to gravitate to farts dont smell levels)

            I can tell you that when COV-19 broke earlier this year, my email inbox was flooded with some of the old heifers at EL1&2 and APS6 levels demanding to work from home. I had no problem with that, but was quietly appalled by the way so often I would find they had organised their subordinates to continue Business as Usual coming into the office, while they spent their time blathering on in zoom meetings, whinging about the lack of travel. I reckon those old girls will really drive a work from home 2-3 days a week APS from here.

            The other point I would note is that where they can get them these old girls really like having marginalised men beneath them – recent migrants, kids from deprived backgrounds, those with wives higher up the earnings/seniority ladder, Gay men. They really do dislike straight normal intelligent men.

          • Display NameMEMBER

            There was a time, a long time ago now, when the PS was poorly paid and probably were frank and fearless. Now I think many are over paid from my interactions consulting to govt dept in the IT area. And sadly anyone is now just a restructure away from unemployment, so frank and fearless is no more.

    • For older women the homelessness/job loss crunch comes if they have also suffered a divorce. Coupled with low paid or part time work and often little super due to their most productive years having been spent raising children, the loss then of half their assets can tip them over into homelessness.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        That’s what happens but it happens to men as well, something that has been glossed over for a long time. I’m annoyed that there’s a whole bunch out there who never worried about men living rough that now think homelessness is a problem because the split between men and women are starting to even up. The tale about rising rates of women facing living on the streets always fail to mention that 60-70% living rough are men.

      • Older women are the fastest growing homeless group. They often did give up some kind of job for raising kids and end with low assets, hardly any super. After a life shock or divorce they can find themselves exposed to the same warped housing market that younger people do, without the prospect of working long enough to pay off a mortgage. I know stereotypes are fun and all but women who did what many of you regard as the right thing by staying home with the kids will end up on the homeless scrap heap.

        https://theconversation.com/400-000-women-over-45-are-at-risk-of-homelessness-in-australia-142906

        • GunnamattaMEMBER

          For mine we end up becoming side tracked in a discussion about ‘fastest growing’ (women) and ‘largest’ (men) homeless demographic when ultimately the story is that – as Mackak says somewhere here – there is no war but the class war.

          That class war is pushing men and women to financially stress themselves – they have children, buy house, try to pay for it all, try to give the kids a run in life – using debt and precarious employment to service the debt.

          I agree totally there are many women who do literally give up decent employment to stay at home and look after kids. I know first hand that it often makes little sense for a wife to pursue her profession while childcare costs soak up the entire prospective additional income. I would also add there are a number of (often middle aged and older) men who have been locked into meaningless work, possibly earning less than they may otherwise have done, simply because they couldnt take a risk with their employment – take a punt on another gig. Sometimes its the other way around, and the female cant take the punt.

          I sure as hell wasnt trying to suggest that women or men are ‘wrong’ – what I was pointing out in the face of seeming media assertions that the impact of the Virus is falling on women and that there is some government ‘support’ for male occupations – is that the safest occupations, and those with the best superannuation and security attached to them, and often the best remuneration as well, are those which for whatever reason tend to be dominated by women.

          That leads me to thinking it is not ‘women’ who are being hammered by the economic impact of the virus, but a socioeconomic section of society – which includes men and women, of a particular age, and in particular (generally leveraged) circumstances.

  4. To date it is not a pink recession. But the likelihood is that women are going to be worst affected as the fiscal cliff clubs the ponzi-services economy. Investment incentives do not benefit oversupply or person-to-person businesses where ladies predominate.

    Thus the budget, which is a forward looking document, did ignore women if you want to frame it that way.

    Of course that begs the question do you want to support those ponzi-services sectors?

    But that is the economic question. The political question is undoubtedly “yes”.

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      My guess from the above is that unless they can prevent the Universities (about 2/3 women, and about 70% of the academic staff on short term/fixed term contracts – and quite large employers) shedding staff then women will wear an outsize impact from that.

    • “Thus the budget, which is a forward looking document, did ignore women if you want to frame it that way.“

      Did we do gender analysis of the federal budget last year?

      Or is it mainly a result of Morrison’s credible comment?

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      I completely agree, but I do think there is a ‘demographic’ suffering (and about to suffer even more) economically.

      I think it is the demographic of people who bought into the idea (often with members of the opposite sex) that they could sustain a mega mortgage, keep their jobs, raise a family, and afford the odd break and life experience. At a guess I would say those most affected are between 40 [not a lot of career behind them] and late 50s [more likely to have paid off an abode] where they have parenting/mortgage servicing needs.

      • It really all comes down to the abode. Somewhere recently was a report that said that those who bought a house versus those who didn’t, by retirement were worth an average of $400,000 versus $40,000 for those with no house purchase.

        • GunnamattaMEMBER

          Thats pretty much how I see it. I dont think they even need to ‘own’ the abode outright, just have reasonable equity in it (enough to downsize and buy outright somewhere – Broken Hill, back blocks of NSW, backblocks QLD or TAS) and live out retirement.

          Depends on how many kids are in play, and how close they want to be in that retirement.

          • I’ve seen quite a few people do just that- sell up in city after relationship breakdown, and go country.( northern nsw, away from the coast so far).
            – can own a reasonable house.
            – no work prospects, shyte medical care access.
            But overall a positive, as they move into a like community.
            Also, I wonder if some of the female top heavy senior public service relates to maternity leave provisions of old.
            For a lot of women in my generation( particularly law graduates) if you wanted a family and a job to go back to, public service was a good option.

  5. So could it be said, everything worked better when there were more men than women in positions of power?

    I mean, clearly there were more men than women in positions of power in the past. Things were also better in the past.

    Now there are more women than men, and things are worse.

    I wonder what this means?

      • Agreed. But several empires in the past, Greece, Rome, the Islamic Caliphates, Classical India, all had high degrees of female emancipation, or women in positions of power, right before they fell.

        Is it not reasonable enough to recognise a trend line? Again, not all societies, but it appears to me this phenomenon seems to afflict societies that achieve that era’s high particularly.

        I think there is a trend worth considering here.

    • Rorke's DriftMEMBER

      Now we’re tip toeing into deeper water, this thread is starting to get interesting. I thought it was just going to be the more superficial debates around these issues. I’ll note at this point that MB appears mostly male (any stats?) and this is the place where Australias problems are debated and solved, thought leadership. A coincidence?

      • I’d sort of lost interest in weekend links, but this is a ‘real’ piece. Gunna chimes in with some interesting stuff sometimes.

        As he says above it isnt a sexual gender divide being exploited but an age responsibility divide. I think DLS is right that women will be bigger factors as retail/services gets taken out with JobKeeper. But the point about the best protected species of the Australian workforce being old female public servants is spot on.

    • Yes. Witness the Victorian Quarantine Inquiry. LOTS of senior female career public servants promoted well above their station with consequent multiple major stuff ups.
      Whilst competent males, whose voices are drowned, such as Sutton, have to answer to these types.

  6. So far things have worked out pretty well for most of that demographic. Suffering will be unevenly spread. Is there any compassion for the senior execs who are now surplus to requirements? What about the CBD cafe staff?

  7. Stewie GriffinMEMBER

    Great article Gunna – nice research in there too. Those facts and figures around the banks and their female employment ratios made me laugh. I worked for a large financial organisation – 20years ago the ratios were reversed (actually more than a little reversed, given the smaller pool of women who are both capable AND interested in finance), then about 10yrs ago they made it a KPI to get a 50/50 ratio in all senior positions. A pretty senior economist, who I have far more trust in their demographic capabilities then Liz Allen, worked out that if they had tried to do this neutrally, i.e. through natural attrition, it would have taken around 20yrs – they ended up doing it in 7yr.

    Basically this meant that for 7 years, if you were a male looking to advance in the organisation you were screwed. Where as if you were reasonably capable women, you got sucked up the management chain faster than a $10 blowy. This story has been pretty much replicated across all companies in that space across the industry. In trying to right one wrong these policies have needlessly created another.

    • Rorke's DriftMEMBER

      Were they trying to right a wrong stewie, was it about fairness and equity. Or has all the social engineering of the past 30-40 years been for an unstated strategic purpose.. Lots of strands taken together builds a picture of controlling and shifting the population to a place thats not necessary better or in the ordinary citizens interests.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        At a corporate level I don’t think there was anything individually nefarious in what they attempted to do, other than simply right what they had been taught to believe was a wrong (as to whether it actually was a wrong, given group sex preferences in terms of interests and capabilities is another question). But I do believe that its unthinking adoption and acceptance reflects the broader cultural war setting, in terms of the pursuit and adoption of different cultural values by our elites that serve their interests rather than the existing societies.

    • What started as attempting to write a wrong quickly degenerated into a simple exercise of self interest, like many such campaigns. ‘what about them’ simply becomes ‘what about me’. Add in the constant media brainwash and is the very reason a 20 something female uni grad entering the corporate workforce actually believes she is still being discriminated against….. despite all scales being tilted in her factor.

      It’s simply the world we live in, half the pundits think they are creating a fairer world, the other half know damn well they are not, but they are the net beneficiaries so couldn’t care less. No different the boys club of old in that sense, you just execute it under false virtue as opposed to open misogyny.

      https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/todays-feminism-a-case-of-all-whine-and-no-roar/news-story/74fd81b5e47b48cf3388d21081fe58a7

  8. Ah, the old WEGA, the very same govt entity that publishes a flagship gender pay gap study every single year devoid of a single ounce of statistical integrity, they make the PCA look legitimate.

    Any person and/or entity that compiles a gender pay gap study by comparing the full time salary of a surgeon against the part time casual wage of a checkout operator, despite having any and all other statistical methods at their disposal deserves instant dismissal. Instead, you award them a 400K pa salary and a public platform, totes be woke!

    Great work on the APS statistics….. can’t recall the last time I heard demands for a 50/50 gender quota in the public service????

  9. Well interesting story, and Gunna a lotta work in that. BUT
    Guys you are looking into the fires.
    Soon you will be looking into the ashes.
    Whereas you are better off looking into different latitudes and horizons.
    This time last year the story was house prices, will they fall
    The RBA has now penciled in a 12% fall for the next 12 months
    Now the issue is Jobson Growth, remember him?
    All jobs are rapidly disappearing, now its should men or women walk the plank
    Soon it will be anybody else but me, to walk the plank
    Times have moved on, technology introduces new paradimes
    Those who aremaking the best of the new opportunities will be the sucessful.

    This covers most of that ground:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP2l2oJUJY4

    Many will be left behind.

    • Wise words as always WW

      On the topic of the plight of women, there were pre Commonwealth Games some distressing stories of older homeless women on the GC sleeping in the dunes and what to do about what was clearly not a good look for the games media juggernaut.

      Do you know what the situation is on the ground now in terms of homelessness for male/female/kids? I would have thought GC would be ground zero for things to really get ugly.

      • Most of the homeless, except for the die hards, literally, who like to have the stars as a chandelier
        are staying in otherwise vacant tourist accommodation, at our expense.
        I understand that applies till April, next year.

  10. For local government it varies by state as the responsibilities and what they’re allowed to operate are different. I saw a report a few years ago that had more females in eastern states LG where they run more aged care and childcare facilities, and more males in western and northern states where they generally don’t.

  11. karlflowersMEMBER

    With tourism stopped and domestic tourism not riding to the rescue, the ABS industries reliant on tourism are by far the worst affected sectors in the COVID recession, even with many jobs still in this industry to be cut because of JobKeeper wind back. ABS Labour Force Survey showed 55% of jobs in the largest tourism affected ABS industry sector of accommodation and food services were held by women in Feb 2020. This data also shows a loss of 94,000 female jobs compared to 75,000 male jobs in this industry sector between February 2020 and August 2020. So in the worst affected industry, with many more job losses to come, yes this is a pink recession.

  12. Sex inequality in the workplace, what next a Flower Power movement and Womens Liberation.
    FFS we’re in 2020 not 1960, so talk about still fighting yesterdays war.
    What’s important going forward is that Australian businesses have a economically valid case for hiring (or retaining) any staff (men, women, children you name it).
    Today’s Aussie workforce is dominated by BS jobs and like it or not women excel in these roles, in some ways it is just a woman’s lot in life to deal with the s4it that naturally flows her way. When they see a stream of brown sticky stinky stuff flowing towards them, most men have the good sense to step out of the way, most women just see another task that if they don’t do it then it won’t get done.
    That’s life, sucks but we do get somewhat used to it.
    But think about it for a minute,
    What happens when you create the foundations of your society on economic BS and labour Ponzi? well that’s easy women dominate, we fit right in, it’s a job market that’s tailored to our strengths.
    What happens if you create a society devoid of BS jobs and optimized towards net labour Productivity? It’s probably gender neutral, except in the sense that such a job market naturally tends towards one where wages are proportional to net product, so longer working hours = larger pay packet and in this equation men win out (but our society loses)
    Complex problem isn’t it?
    if you ask me men should be permitted to rise through the ranks and achieve a level limited only by their own incompetence, women on the other hand….

  13. As usual, causes trump basic numeracy and statistical analysis. A colleague in our Biomedicine Faculty thinks that it’s unfair for females to have to bear the brunt of the layoffs. I wanted to ask her can you walk across a river with an average depth of five feet? Most people are just virtue signalling when it comes to this debate. Men will suffer just a much, perhaps even more, particularly men over 50 who may never work the same way again. I also think this is an opportunity for the lucky ones to escape institutional wage slave dependence. Not having any debt and having some f*ck off money helps.

  14. The public sector only accounts for 16% of total employment. No one in the public sector lost jobs due to Covid. The job losses are in the private sector, the majority of which are in industries with more females and especially those employed part time or on casual contracts (hospitality and tourism).

    • Partnered women who are not the main breadwinner would not qualify for JobSeeker. Single women with children would not be on JobSeeker but would be on the single parents benefit.

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