Weekend Reading 15-16 August 2020

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Leith van Onselen
Latest posts by Leith van Onselen (see all)

Comments

  1. First? Can it be so? Watching the big guns fight it out week to week until one day Stephen Bradbury glides across the line.

      • Your perceptions are not grounded in how things have worked for decades, let alone before that E.g. assigning agency to a thing and then compound error by optics and metrics which have no relationship with reality can skew opinion.

        Hate to break it too you E.P. but all that time spent on metaphysical introspection is an exercise conducted in a vacuum and even then Kant would take issue with some categorical errors used.

        Per se even before money becomes involved you have the advent of a contract, it proceeds all trade, so the quality of it determines both the quality and quantity of any money forms used to facilitate its satisfaction.

        Viewing this reality with barter theory of money with a side of Says law will do your head in.

        • Skippy mate, EP is on the money. When everything is measured in little numbers printed on slips of paper that can be printed to infinity the relative value (for want of a better word) of everything is infinite; and therefor, zero. Were just temporarily existing in the grey area of rationality on the journey to the eventual destination of realisation. It’s the rat wheel of life’s meaning as current society thinks they understand it.

          Were all going to hell in a bucket, I’m just enjoying the ride. And my house is worth more than yours so I win.

          • You obviously have no clue about money systems throughout history, adding that for most around here none had a clue to what was used, how it changed over time, and the various ideologies or political agendas that administered it.

            The Gold standard reads like a obituary of human acts, was still a tool of the state, favored capital, and was largely responsible for two WW and the Great Depression. At the end of the day, tally sticks, bimetallism, paper are just transactional devices, furthermore you can’t store value as its a time and space problem. Gold was a symbol of value like say wheat to facilitate taxation, from the taxation angle war debt in a gold system is the primary driver of economy’s to take a nose dive. It matters not what symbology is used to embellish tokens of exchange with acceptance, its the administration of them and how that plays out near and far.

            Neoliberalism was always about a two tier reality and the TINA markets was its vehicle, hence a gold standard will not change that, more likely accelerate it as capital hovers it all up. Then were right back to the events that led up to the Business Plot.

            You must think War is a Racket was a romantic read …

          • Further more increased asset prices is more a reflection of investor choices, not interested in deploying it in anything that has long risk factors or human legacy issues because that is the direction the market is moving in and has been for decades E.g. M – E(i) – M

          • I don’t remember mentioning anything about a gold standard. More simply, if you print it (money), they will come (high asset prices).

  2. https://youtu.be/VtoI8BfHql0
    So the start of this video is a little slow, but gets better when he shows the work he did in his own home. Not formally educated. Just a do-er and maker… tinkers. Why isn’t Education in schools more hands on anymore?

    • I totally understand this guy. The freedom and satisfaction you can achieve at your own hands. I love it.

    • Arthur Schopenhauer

      It’s funny, when all the expensive private schools in Silicon Valley ban screens and have great wood & metal shops, our expensive schools promote their ICT (short for iPad) program.

      • I am really hoping to encourage my son to learn with his hands and make things. Learn to weld, use power tools etc..

        There is a Rudolph Steiner school nearby I’m looking into it. I think Education in this country is going backwards and so I’m seeking alternatives.

        • As a son myself, I can recommend learning with your hands, especially as a teenager. It taught me everything I know. Even now in my 40’s I take a refresher course here and there. Just to remind myself what a wank of a world we live in.

        • Arthur Schopenhauer

          I had a 70 year old shop teacher in grade 7. Tolerated nothing but hard work and had us write out 150 pages of shop safety rules for homework. No copy, no pass and he followed through! 😂 Those fkn pages are still seared into my brain!

        • Narapoia451MEMBER

          Bit repetitive though.

          Let it rip, the death rate is nothing to worry about it’s only old people that die, so protect them, but you can’t really protect anyone so there’s point in quarantine, there’s no evidence of any negative long term effects, just like the flu.

          Did I miss any? If I did add to them and I’ll paste this a few times in the comments today to simulate the good doctor for you.

          • migtronixMEMBER

            It was repetitive, I agree. About 20 other posters managed to find it within themselves to retort, every single day, on the links page and those responses were seldom any less repetitive.

            “go catch it. volunteer. Old people are the only people too”

            Did I miss anything?

          • Turns out that what Drx was saying is correct. There can be no eradication of a virus when there is no vaccine and all lockdowns do is destroy the economy and fracture society. Once taxpayer welfare runs dry, mortgages are defaulted on and the unemployment rate soars then all of the spineless fools who have been screaming for everyone to be locked up might start to have to consider that they are partly responsible for what comes next after helping to turn the country into N Korea.
            I admire the fact that Drx persisted with his message in the face of childish abuse from the echo chamber of fools.

          • FUDINTHENUDMEMBER

            Hypothesis of the “Let it rip” brigade: everybody getting sick, untreated, all at once, to every new disease, would be fantastic for our societies health and the economy.

          • migtronixMEMBER

            Hypotheses of the elimination brigade – sure its never happened before in history and it doesn’t seem to working now but that doesn’t matter because we have propaganda so 43 ICU presentations in 4M population becomes debilitating and we must endlessly lockdown until its zero for weeks – and then when one pops do it all over again.

          • Tightwad, those lockdowns are 100% necessary if we ever hope to have even a very small chance at fixing the country. The economy needs to be sacrificed in the fight to return this country back into an actual society that has good governance. I support the lockdowns because this country burning to the ground is its only hope, couldn’t care less about the virus. I will personally suffer when this happens, but just like when fighting an enemy in war, sacrifices have to be made.

            Actually, the enemy of Australians is the economy, most of the destruction of old Australia over the years has been made for the economy. Lets kill this enemy any way we can.

          • “”The economy needs to be sacrificed in the fight to return this country back into an actual society that has good governance.””
            Bwhahahaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Funny how folks think people are banned when all that happens they get sick of the usual suspects getting it wrong on most things and complaining about it.
            DrX never said let it rip he said don’t be scared – you were
            I said buy gold – you mostly didn’t
            Reusa said buy RE – you mostly didn’t.
            It’s nice swinging by here but I find the most useful comments are from lurkers and one or two exceptions. The rest are just scared and bitter. Just like Australia now as a whole.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            It was repetitive, I agree. About 20 other posters managed to find it within themselves to retort, every single day, on the links page and those responses were seldom any less repetitive.

            Exactly. He may have been repetitive but he was the main commentator who was prepared to push the barrow against the popular narrative, and while some of his comments or reasoning may have been a little out there, his overall position was much more based in reality than most of the eliminators.

          • Life in Perth is good at the moment. Lockdown worked. Life back as normal. Economy is much better than the headlines suggest. The virus will resolve somehow like every other issue does in due course, but in the meantime I’m happy to give research more time to find answers.

          • I support it. Too often in this place arguments are used to cast identity. Evidence seen as threatening, and leads to fortification rather than retreat. It is the journalism 2020 effect – success measured according eyeballs v evidence. It’s why journalism goes to a Dan Andrews press conference and asks the same idiotic question 40 days in a row – because the question represents the journalist and is fun. Why are they at press conferences anyway when they aren’t essential workers?
            Points never addressed imo
            1. Lockdown and masks do work – lower the reproduction number below 1
            2. Nobody knows the herd immunity threshold
            3. measured positivity rate does not tie back to claim that there is a heap of unknown cases so some countries are closer to herd immunity than they appear
            4. No country is close to achieving herd immunity and it isnt clear it is possible
            5. can’t assume steady state. negative impact of virus decreases with time and increases with qty cases.
            6. There is no tradeoff between public health and economic aspect of virus so a let it rip approach is a decision to reduce PV $ of current/future life.
            7. governments who meausure their success in GDP aren’t in the habit of creating recessions when there is no threat of inflation
            8. Private sector has led lockdowns in most cases and without official lockdown would lockdown by itself. It would just be delayed and accompanied with panic when the virus meets lived experience.
            there is a heap of others which i cant remember.

          • oh yeah.
            Then the claim that the individual health impact is no worse than the flu or that you fully recover.

          • Agree with Sweeper, lockdowns work. Economies that are not letting it rip are doing better than those that are..sure there is no cure. But time will help us understand how to treat the infected better and reduce its impact allowing society to open up more.

          • Haywood JablomyMEMBER

            There was never anything wrong with Dr X having a view. But he/she was espousing those views well before he or anyone else could possibly know enough to confidently say what path the epidemic would take. Although he/she had backed off a bit recently, early on they were attacking the views of others as though standing on some higher ground based on expert knowledge. By their own admission Dr X was not a medical doctor, and yet felt confident enough early on to pour scorn on those who were when their views did not align with his/hers.

            The issue with Dr X was less about the views expressed, and more about the overconfident bluster and bullsh!t.

          • @Mega65
            ” I support the lockdowns because this country burning to the ground is its only hope”

            Holy cow, you’re throwing a lot of people under the bus here, you know? People who don’t have any particular stake in the “system”, but who are just trying to get by and do the best they can. You know…. the majority of the population.

        • bolstroodMEMBER

          Have I missed some thing ?
          Are DrX and Staggie in the sin bin ?
          Diversity is the spice of life, very boring if we agree with everyone all the time.

        • NZ has a small outbreak from a quarantine breach, to be expected. How does this disprove anything?

      • I liked his comment about the clouds of covid virus floating over suburbs and targeting the suburbs residents. apparently the clouds were formed from all the sneezes of people throwing out covid into the atmosphere. I imagine after collecting in a group the virus mutated into a sentient being able to travel under its own power against the wind and able to target individuals in houses over many square miles.

      • reusachtigeMEMBER

        DrX and Coming have been the best commenters when it comes to this Chinamen virus. Cancel culture attempts to destroy them but they have fought on bravely unlike the cowards on here who only ever do what their leaders tell them to do.

          • No. Some of us presented patient, evidence based rebuttals and links debunking his claims, and after he continued to ignore it all and it made no difference to his posts after about two months, we got sick of it and no longer engage in the debate. I expect in internet land this means he “won”.

          • Let’s see: flawse, Mig, Tightwad and Reus, the usual suspects, all bemoaning the loss of a covid denier. Yawn 😴

          • migtronixMEMBER

            You flatter yourself Arrow2. You lot might have felt like you were ignoring it after a couple but I assure you your (not you personally but collectively) fetish for your own assessment, and possibly boredom, compelled you lot – and me of course – to maintain engaged for many months more. We’re in the 8 months of this!

          • bolstroodMEMBER

            @revert2 mean
            add me to that list.
            Not that I agree with the good DR X , but for the diversity of views, and the debate it stimulated.
            See my coment above.

          • “Let’s see: flawse, Mig, Tightwad and Reus, the usual suspects, all bemoaning the loss of a covid denier. Yawn 😴”

            Your ‘could’ and ‘would’ and misrepresentations, always without proof or real evidence, adds so much to all discussion or debate!!!!!!! Go back to your source of all science and economics – it’s generally very simple and doesn’t care about truth and facts – you’re right at home there.

            Let’s see – I think each of us, and add in a few more commenters, have contributed more correct observations and predictions that would have contributed to the prosperity of readers here than most – especially you – who has NIL contribution in that regard

          • “compelled you lot – and me of course – to maintain engaged for many months more”
            who started it though?

          • Come on kids, I caught DrX out on numerous points, outright proved he was wrong, but he completely ignored it and carried on regardless. It’s not fun to debate with someone who simply ignores facts, or gets facts wrong, or cherrypicks relentlessly the way he did. Why am I glad he is gone? I refer you to the Dunning-Kruger effect, Brandolini’s Law, and the Fourth Law of Stupidity (non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular, non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places, and under any circumstances, to deal with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake. — Carlo M. Cipolla)

          • migtronixMEMBER

            “debate should be guided by evidence”. What does that even mean? And besides you ignore the clear evidence that the first lockdown was pointless and that the advice from medical “authorities” has been all over the place. You also ignored me for months acting like there was only one covid and it was all the same when very bloody clearly something different was happening in Italy and Spain.

            Sod off with your pseudo intellectual appeals.

          • how can you say it was pointless? If it was pointless we would still be in the first lockdown.

          • re. debate.
            Say you’ve got 2 options 1. debate 2. journalism
            say you start with debate, then evidence comes along and supports one viewpoint
            but the other side keeps digging. Well then that’s journalism not debate.

          • migtronixMEMBER

            We are. We’re in the first lockdown that’s actually flattening the curve, and then barely….

          • migtronixMEMBER

            Where was the debate stagmal tried to have about should we crush the young for years to save the old a few months??

            “Meanwhile, the Australasian College of Emergency Medicine (ACEM) says the number of people with COVID-19 from aged care being kept in hospital too long could mean emergency departments are soon overcrowded.”

          • wasn’t a debate it was a meme. the young would fare even worse under let it rip strategy.

          • Haywood JablomyMEMBER

            Of course completely ignoring how many ad hominem attacks were levelled at others by doc X. Doc was a fine example of the saying “if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh!t”. Brandolini’s Law indeed.

          • garbage.
            Sweden will be sorted in a few weeks. nope. (worst call ever)
            Its OK for old, fat or people with co-morbidity to die. nope.
            Virus clouds floating over neighbourhoods. (possibly..)
            The guy was an idiot, and in this case, less is more.

    • I’ve been reading MB since last year sporadically but I started reading more since covid made conventional news irrelevant. I like the wider spectrum of opinions, especially in comments where one can find some really strong figures.
      It gives me better ability to see all the risks and possible developments when it comes to financial policies … I was about to get subscription but l started noticing things that made me think twice. I can get mainstream self-reinforced opinions of very little value in the media for free.

      Some people with different unconventional but still valid views that appear to be quite informed and well reasoned are often ridiculed even by people who run the blog (e.g b_n_c). He may appear to be ridicilous in some claims but … look at gold and silver lately. Some like doctor$ is one of very few who in this country had some sensical grasp of covid things, but he often got personally attacked (and it looks like banned) despite he managed to get more things right than almost anyone out there, in late March he said it will be over soon and it did. Soon after he said it will come back, and it did. In April or May, he said elimination is impossible and it’s only matter of time for virus to come back. Than it happened in Singapore, Japan, Vietnam and lately NZ where he even predited possible ways for that to happen. He also said that NSW will be fine this time around. I mean, he was wrong about other stuff like gold price but almost on the spot when it comes to covid.

      With covid and global government responses being some of the most important factors for investments decisions these days, banning people with the best insights is quite disappointing. I don’t think anyone who wants to get ahead in these turbulent times should disregard opinions that don’t fit their convictions – quite the opposite because people who have well reasoned contrarian view are the most valuable to get us out of our internet filter bubbles.
      There are few more valuable people of that kind left but I’m afraid them will be pushed out soon as well.

      • What’s this get ahead nonsense? Are you a liberal party member? Just staying afloat is the game now.

      • views that appear to be quite informed and well reasoned

        My emphasis added.

        DrX promoted a let-er-rip approach that virtually every expert in the world says is wrong. Even Sweden (now enjoying a respite from C-19 due to holidays and open windows in hot weather) is basically in a form of lockdown, but voluntary, in a way you cannot achieve in a non-homogeneous society like Aus.

      • I get that his evidence was often weak (most of covid evidence is small sample non-reviewed rubbish anyway) but when it comes to predictability he was way better than almost all, not just here but in general. I clearly remember few explicit predictions: in late March everyone was predicting Italian scenario here and he said it will be over in two three weeks. Than after Vic outbreak when everyone was saying Sydney is next, he said not this time. Than about elimination, he said it’s just matter of time for those countries to see large outbreaks and repeated hard lockdowns. So far, all but Taiwan failed.
        Maybe he was boring and repetitive, ans even wrong about many little points, but he got it right about important stuff – as opposed to almost everyone else.

        I don’t remember he ever said let it rip. He was more for Swedish strategy (like few others here) – strategy that looks better every day. I don’t think it’s about summer and holidays (all northern countries have that) but Sweden is doing better than most.
        EDIT: I think getting opinions outside of MSM is the only way to survive and make money these days. There is a lot of rubbish out there but truth is also there. Also, I don’t think world will be better place if economies get destroyed now. Only bad things will survive – see what happened in the past after similar depressions.

          • This is precisely what I was trying to say. If one agrees with someone, not even on all points, he gets personally insulted.
            I have no desire to go into any argument with you or anyone. I’m here just an observer, very likely a temporary one.

          • I thought that post (by DarenM) was well reasoned. Even if you don’t think it was, it was written politely; no snark. It would be nice if all could extend the same courtesy, but unfortunately this *is* the internet.

            I also go to the nakedcapitalism site like a lot of people here. I find the owner of that site very impolite in her replies to people who don’t share the same views. I guess it’s just the nature of the beast.

          • @ThePensum

            Your issue is you – believe – that everyone should have the freedom [tm] to voice an opinion, even when its demonstrably false or worse pushing an agenda that has dire consequences for others.

            In NC case the sight rules are quite clear and anyone commenting has accepted those terms, having a dummy spat at being pulled up for breaching those conditions is on the person that commented and not those pointing it out.

            Additionally as a reader and commenter from as far back as 07, but was aware of Yves long before that, anyone that thinks NC is aggressive to some should have been there back in the early days … lmmao … the personal threats I used to get. Even had a lawyer in Minnesota threaten me with a law suit for pointing out his fraudulent business practices wrt sub prime loans and repossession – eviction only to have to point out his breach of state law in making such threats.

            BTW Agnotology is a real thing.

      • You are right on the mark DarenM. Anyone with any sensible reasoning gets shut d own here quickly. Your preaching to the unemployed here, they want this to continue indefinitely things have never been better for them

        • “Anyone with any sensible reasoning gets shut d own here quickly.”

          In light of the blazing saddles link today I would respond in kind with that is some real authentic frontier gibberish.

          Basically what your saying is what you define as sensible [bias tripwire] is automatically accepted as reasoning and any response to it is not in agreement is an out of control authoritarian response.

          Personally I find it hard to reconcile due the chutzpah condition, considering the past dialectal styles of these same sorts in the past when they thought they had dominate market share, now that they are finding it more difficult to sell their wares they cry abused orphan in a reasonable [tm] tone.

  3. AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND: HOUSING AFFORDABILITY SUCKS … MARTIN NORTH … DIGITAL FINANCE ANALYTICS (JANUARY 2020 …

    … In case you (like me) missed this outstanding video presentation by Martin North back late January, at the time of the release of the 2020 16th Annual demographia International Housing Affordability Survey …

    Housing Affordability Sucks. … Martin North … Digital Finance Analytics / Youtube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_p1DjbBXw0

    Martin North outlines the important political developments in New Zealand to restore housing affordability.

    The 1st and 3rd Reading speeches on the now passed Infrastructure Funding and Financing Bill by Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford are essential viewing too … to get a sense of the breadth of the structural reforms underway and the broad political and interest groups support …

    Infrastructure Funding and Financing Bill – Hon Phil Twyford – First Reading – Video 1

    https://vimeo.com/379923683

        • migtronixMEMBER

          Alas not you knocking your knees in terror….

          The honeymoon is over, the Italian strain will be all over by now and Im yet to see anywhere that has actually eliminated the Italian strain once its out in community transmission

          • Whats special about this Italian strain that it cant be eliminated.
            Also why do you call it the Italian strain.

            Currently, there are six strains of coronavirus. The original one is the L strain, that appeared in Wuhan in December 2019. Its first mutation — the S strain — appeared at the beginning of 2020, while, since mid-January 2020, we have had strains V and G. To date strain G is the most widespread: it mutated into strains GR and GH at the end of February 2020.

            “Strain G and its related strains GR and GH are by far the most widespread, representing 74% of all gene sequences we analysed,” says Giorgi. “They present four mutations, two of which are able to change the sequence of the RNA polymerase and Spike proteins of the virus. This characteristic probably facilitates the spread of the virus.”

            If we look at the coronavirus map, we can see that strains G and GR are the most frequent across Europe and Italy. According to the available data, GH strain seems close to non-existence in Italy, while it occurs more frequently in France and Germany. This seems to confirm the effectiveness of last months’ containment methods.

            In North America, the most widespread strain is GH, while in South America we find the GR strain more frequently. In Asia, where the Wuhan L strain initially appeared, the spread of strains G, GH and GR is increasing. These strains landed in Asia only at the beginning of March, more than a month after their spread in Europe.

            Globally, strains G, GH and GR are constantly increasing. Strain S can be found in some restricted areas in the US and Spain. The L and V strains are gradually disappearing.

          • migtronixMEMBER

            What’s special about it is its proven ability to infect without the need for prolonged close contact. I call it that because that’s where it was sequenced then showed up in Spain, New York, etc. The original and the orf-8 that South Korea and Washington state and Taiwan had was not as communicable.

          • migtronixMEMBER

            “574 new cases and 3 new deaths in Italy [source]”

            Where is the elimination, pray tell

          • Bad planning and bad execution.
            Same reason for victorias breakout.
            Elimination and containment is possible if everyone does the right thing and plays their part.
            This is not a supernatural event outside our control.

            https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/13/italy-pandemic-plan-was-old-and-inadequate-covid-report-finds
            A severely outdated pandemic plan could have contributed to thousands of Covid-19 deaths in Italy, according to a report set to be presented to prosecutors investigating alleged errors by Italian authorities.

            Italy had only “an old and inadequate plan” that “makes no mention of scenarios and planning assumptions”, according to the 65-page report compiled by the retired army general Pier Paolo Lunelli, and seen by the Guardian.

            Lunelli estimated that as many as 10,000 of Italy’s over 35,000 deaths may have been attributed to the lack of sufficient anti-pandemic protocols.

          • migtronixMEMBER

            I’m not talking about the deaths I’m talking about infections. You can control the deaths not the infections, we still have swine H1N1 and avian H1N5, these were pandemics too.

          • desmodromicMEMBER

            Mig, H5N1 is a disease of birds and there has been no human to human transmission. H5N1 infection in humans requires prolonged contact with birds for the virus to get into the lungs, e.g. live meat markets and Asian cock fighting. However if you did become infected, it killed you quickly. Unlike more contagious strains of flu, H5N1 can’t bind to upper airways in humans and therefore not readily spread. In birds it is a gastro-intestinal infection, hence transmitted via faeces in water and devastating to the poultry industry.

    • Perhaps now we know Gladys & Co were criminally negligent we can look forward to some unbiased reporting from MB on the NSW and VIC infections, instead of every report being peppered with “NSW has far outdone VIC”.

      • happy valleyMEMBER

        Silly Gladys Gladwrap appointing Bret Walker (a very tough and absolutely no-nonsense dude) to head up the inquiry without guessing the obvious outcome? The ultimately recalcitrant Feds (far more skilled at blaming everybody else – usually Labor, whether or not Labor had anything to do with the subject matter) knew what was good for them and SFM’s upfront “olive branch” of agreeing to participate became a brick wall, leaving the dopey NSW LNPers to effectively wear all of the harsh criticism? The NSW LNPers need to improve their duck and weave skills?

  4. migtronixMEMBER

    “infectious diseases. He has watched, with disgust and disbelief, as the United States has struggled for months to obtain enough tests to fight the coronavirus. In January, he assured a newspaper reporter that he had “absolute faith” in the ability of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to contain the virus. By early March, that conviction was in crisis. “The incompetence has really exceeded what anyone would expect,” he told The New York Times. His astonishment has only intensified since.”

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/how-to-test-every-american-for-covid-19-every-day/615217/

    • PalimpsestMEMBER

      This focus on testing highlights an issue. It is true that “you can’t manage what you can’t measure”. So, yes, testing is important. But it is a measure. It isn’t management. In the absence of management measures, testing will just continue to show the rate going up.

      Testing tells you where to apply management measures, and if they are working. In the US they tend to show where there is inadequate management. As for everyone agreeing to spit test. It might work in Japan or Sweden. Can you see it working in the US?

  5. reusachtigeMEMBER

    Sweden gives me hope that we aren’t all lost and destroyed cowards who can no longer fight our act intelligently for the long term good. May they now make good profits!

    https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-sweden-few-new-cases-but-jury-out-on-nations-covid-strategy/news-story/656680a38b707862d5c9cbb683056989

    Gotta love how the propaganda spin on the article is still an attempt to cancel culture Sweden as much as possible but hard for them to achieve because Sweden has been superior in the end.

    • Give them a few months, they’ll be back in the hole:

      One of the main factors in the current Swedish success however could be simply because it’s August. That’s the month when much of the country comes to a halt. It’s a time when Swedes desert the cities and head to their secluded summer homes to spend the day diving in lakes, sweating in saunas and drinking copious amounts of schnapps. That’s a worry because the second wave could be an unwanted welcome back to work gift.

      • Sees a lot of ‘could’ and ‘would’ in there. Still, on a whole range of topics that seems to be sufficient proof to justify the expression of any alternative idea these days. Wonders why people talking about the Swedish model are not ALL cancelled.

      • I’d love to see you back in your hole. I’ve never seen one useful comment from you.

      • Should the Swedes be more like Spain or France or The Netherlands or Belgium?
        Germany is heading back into the hole so it is not clear yet whether Sweden has adopted a sensible approach or not.
        The dogmatic certainty adopted on both sides is extraordinary.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      It does sound interesting.
      Do they need any Plumbers for this project?
      Im pretty good at digging holes and laying toilet pans.

    • Hey Mig I’ve applied for several roles at Tesla. I never get a call back. Sadly..

      I had an intense job interview on Wednesday which appears to have gone well. I think they will offer me a role. But doesn’t mean I should stop applying or looking. But it’s been about 1 week since Junior was born and I’m still getting used to my new routine.

      This morning I got peed on after lifting him up to change a wet nappy. That was fun.. I guess the joys of being a parent. Just gotta roll with the punches.

      • Yeah. Don’t miss those golden showers.
        I recall once the stream went uphill parabolic towards his face and dear son was shaking his head side to side trying to catch it in his mouth. Luckily every time his head moved right, his hips moved left and the stream moved out of shot. There i was frantically trying for the stream to point at me instead.
        Fun times. Not.

  6. OK, the article yesterday on farmers’ desire for slaves annoyed me and I stuck a short pithy comment on late yesterday, which most would not have seen and only a couple of dyed in the wool neoliberals bothered replying to, so I’ll unload on you all here and see what you make of it.

    The problem with the idea that farmers want cheap foreign backpackers to do the work that Aussies “don’t want” is that it just ain’t so.

    Aussie farmers would be happy to employ Aussies at fair wages, if you [email protected] would actually pay fair value for the fruit, veggies, meat and cereals they produce.

    But none of you will.

    You go for dollar a litre milk, dollar a kilo spuds, dollar loaves of bread, cheap foreign pork, etc., etc. and everything else that the “down, down” price ethos has produced, which in turn has forced the “get big or get out” modern philosophy of industrial “farming”.

    Then you complain about the tasteless bags of nutrition-free water and chlorophyll that you buy (that are produced in factories, not farms) and how [email protected] you feel after eating (assuming you’ve ever tasted real food for comparison, which is becoming less and less likely these days).

    Well, let me tell you, food is not produced in factories, farm factories or otherwise. Food is grown in dirt. Meat grazes on grasses and plants in paddocks – it does not eat grain in feed lots. Growing food (as opposed to the edible food-like substances that fill all supermarkets) is expensive. Harvesting is expensive. Processing is expensive. Transport is expensive.

    Fair value (assuming 60+% to the farmer) looks more like this:

    – Lettuce – ten bucks each

    – Cabbage – twenty bucks each

    – Cauliflower – thirty bucks each

    – Cheap cuts of meat – thirty bucks a kilo

    – And so on up from there

    So, what’s the result of your not wanting to pay these prices?

    Small farmers go broke, because they have become price takers supplying large processors, who in turn supply an oligopoly, not price makers with some kind of relationship with their customers.

    Businesses with absentee investors buy up the farms on the cheap, because none of the broke farmers’ neighbours can afford to buy the farms.

    The big businesses institute farming practices that strip mine the farms of nutrients at the same time as striking up relationships with dodgy labour hire companies to get labour in at piece rates that barely make five bucks an hour for the poor buggers actually doing the work (yes, there are “perfect” workers that are used as the benchmark that can make a decent wage, but they leave stupendous quantities of product on the ground and make it much harder for their colleagues to earn anything at all).

    End result: locals won’t touch the work because, even with all the hassle of dealing with Centrelink, the dole is still a better deal. The dumfcuks who think they run the country think the best way to deal with this is make the dole even harder to get and make sure that there are plenty of backpackers available who are so desperate for a visa extension they’ll put up with anything to get it.

    So, I see only one way to fix this problem.

    And it means you lot need to get off your @rses and do something:

    You need to go and burn down all the supermarkets and then buy your meat from the local butcher and your veggies from the local greengrocer and tell Woollies, Westfarmers and Aldi to go fcuk themselves (no, I’m not advocating farmers’ markets in the city, they’re full of dodgy producers too, ask me nicely and I’ll tell you about some of the locals here who go to Carriageworks in Sh!tney).

    Or don’t burn them down, but just ignore them and purchase elsewhere.

    Either way, until every last one of you is prepared to spend at least thirty to fifty percent of your income on food instead of the [email protected] you spend it on now, nothing will change in this space.

    Over to you…

     

    And BTW, yes I am a small farmer. Up until the middle of last year, when the drought and other factors forced our hand, we produced pork, beef, veggies, jams and preserves on 140 acres on the NSW mid-north coast. Now we just do veggies and preserves, which we sell for around two to four times the supermarket price at local farmers markets. Maybe next year we can restock beef, but pork will have to wait for legislative changes that probably won’t happen in our lifetimes.

    Up until a dozen years or so ago, before farming, we lived in Riverview (Sh!tney) and ran an IT company that basically survived on automating other people out of work, so I know how you lot think too. Which is why I’m here not there…

    And finally, yes, we have had backpackers on the farm and we only paid them in food, bed and knowledge, in return for which they have helped with a bunch of projects I could not manage on my own. Given that three quarters of them stay in regular contact with us years after their visit, I don’t see them feeling done over.

    It seriously sh1ts me that the labour hire companies that got into trouble for ripping off backpackers and others have been the sole beneficiaries of the legislative changes that were advertised as being the cure for the problems caused by these same companies.

        • He might want to inform himself about Norman Borlaug, the “Father of the Green Revolution” as he was a key leader of this corporatist agenda.

          • “he was a key leader of this corporatist agenda.”

            Yonks ago I used to point this out to libertarians … branch displays, gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair ensued.

            BTW FYI my mother side of the family is from Iowa and been in farming for countless generations, loved the old Co-ops and thresher conventions, story’s which make the movie Fried Green Tomatoes look like clean fun.

          • JohnR ….

            Fail to see the relevance considering the actions like germination becoming a cash cow in perpetuity, not to mention consolidation, and reduced verities … then some ponder the term mono culture where FF are extracted to put back in the ground and actual nutritional value is reduced.

            This goes back to the advent of the – need – for vitamin supplements as the soil was degraded, but hay, its a growth industry worth billions now.

    • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

      Thanks for that. An excellent read.

      Australia is now an economy. Not a society. Very sad.

    • Thanks for sharing, while I agree 100% you’ll find that my agreement is worthless.
      As an interesting somewhat related aside, my son who is a bit of a math guru wanted a job in Engineering or something similar but couldn’t find any work in Australia, so while unemployed he developed an automated Water trading bot. Today that little program makes him more money than any Engineer in this country earns, day in day out he trades Water rights. He has never been a farmer, never wanted to be a farmer and never even spent a night on a farm but he makes more than most farmers by trading what is the very blood of their industry.
      On one level it’s immoral, yet at the same time his participation in no way changes the outcomes and prices which farmers must pay for water.
      I would be 100% behind the rules being changed so that only farmers actively running working farms would be allowed to trade water, but this is not going to happen. So what we have instead is a highly trained math guru wasting his time trading and pushing up the price of water rights until the farmers go broke. A previous generation would have employed him to build dams and improve water infrastructure thereby lowering the price of water and improving our farm economics, but we’re much smarter than any generation that came before us!

      • So hes a hedge fund.

        Then some ponder why price mechanics don’t seem to make sense whilst in reality everything is sorted at the political level, which then sets the free market ideologues heads on fire. Yet …. they completely ignore or forget the past and how it got like this in the first place.

          • I think that is fixing itself as we speak … no need to introduce artificial [tm] variants …

            As a side note an old business partner made good packet down in Costa Rica on CC tree plantation, used those flow of funds to set up avocado and early high end tourist development. You might remember my comment on NBN works up Qld coast to that effect, tenders lol ….

            PS here comes Queens Warf …. sigh … they grow up …

    • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

      “You go for dollar a litre milk, dollar a kilo spuds, dollar loaves of bread, cheap foreign pork, etc”

      When I was about 25, petrol prices sky-rocketed. A chain email made it’s way around provoking people to boycott petrol outlet X until their prices came down from 70 cents to 50 cents a litre. That’ll force all the others to drop their prices too.

      As soon as company X dropped their price to 68 cents, cars were lined up.

      I learned a lot about human nature that day. I despise regulation, but we need it to control the herd. The more of us there are the more regulation required.

      I remember laughing at the “buy Australian” campaigns as ridiculously naive.

      “Tragedy of the commons” describes human nature better than anything I’ve seen.

      Free market, open borders LNP and Labor have destroyed us.

    • working class hamMEMBER

      Your story sums up Aust to a point.
      Those that don’t live week to week, should buy local produce from locals. Having relationships with local merchants produces more than just a sustainable business model, communities are held together by these weekly interactions.
      The main problem I see is that most people are forced into situations to purchase rubbish, on price point alone, by a suppressive
      IR environment, not unlike the labour hire situation you have described.
      It doesn’t really help that the aspirational greed of Australians in general far outstrips their sense of community and eventually their own preservation.

      • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

        I’ve got a mortgage/rent, school fees, sports, car, rates, taxes etc. Im looking for the cheapest lettuce even though I know the problem outlined above.

        This is 100% the government’s fault for allowing foreign farm sales, conglomerate big business, property prices, massive immigration, debt society etc etc etc.

        Outside of tokenism, individuals are never going to act in anyone’s interests but their own.

        • “Outside of tokenism, individuals are never going to act in anyone’s interests but their own.”

          The ethos of the corporatist reduced to atomatistic individualism … rim shot.

          PS. most local farm land was repurposed for RE and local farming was industrialized under the aegis of efficiency of scale resulting in lower consumer prices. But then we import citrus and other stuff from Brazil et al, cheaper even with logistical costs.

          Think of Swift and the meat industry.

          • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

            The more I learn about economics the more I see it confirmed as a scam to enrich elites at the expense of the plebs.

          • A. economics was in the past know as sociopolitical theory – emphasis on the later, the term economics is not old in a historical context, albeit the Science bolt on was dodgy at best.

            B. its not a monolith so one needs to be aware of all the schools and their roots – methodological frameworks and how that effects their theory’s.

            C. your opinion about elites is not entirely in accurate as in the past and even today their funding drives or supports various schools of thought, although it can be a bit like fashion – in one day and out the next.

        • “his is 100% the government’s fault for allowing foreign farm sales, conglomerate big business, property prices, massive immigration, debt society etc etc etc.”

          the ect is…..immigration

          Making our population totally unssutainable

      • >It doesn’t really help that the aspirational greed of Australians in general far outstrips their sense of community and eventually their own preservation>.

        1 Sums it up. And it will come down to our own preservation. We’ll learn sooner or later the hard way that the price of destroying our farms and farmers is hunger.

        I suspect sooner than we imagine.

        • I’m a country boy and my folks place ran dry with the drought. They didn’t lose stock but my god, I can’t imagine what that was like who did. The comments about farmers sucking it up disgust me. I agree with all that you said about a sustainable living for all. But I can’t see a way out. There is a divide growing between city and country. Only a mega Cold War with China? I don’t know

          • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

            Hanson. Labor and nationals have to be destroyed to get our country back.

            Because of the senate, change is more likely to come from the bush, rather than the woke cities continuing to dictate this country’s direction.

          • A good place to start is with representation. Very few of those in ag and dependent regions have had representation.

    • WhatcouldgowrongMEMBER

      I think I heard Michael Hudson talk about this a while back – his point being that we are now a debt based society everyone has more money and more debt. Debt is the problem here, food prices and goods prices can’t be high when you are so leveraged for such a long period. Everything else is crapified at the expense of paying off debt. It’s good to be a shareholder of a bank and bad for everyone else.

      • People could forego $5 cups of coffe and nail saloon visits to afford higher food prices.

        But successive governments have pushed us to being an unproductive service economy to allow that to happen.

        People will turn a blind eye to wage theft and turbo charged migration for the sake of their mindless conspicuous consumption.

    • Thank you LeMon!!! All the Mel Syd Bris city dwellers are ALL experts on farming and regional and rural communities. It comes from their naturally occurring superior intelligence.. You better start to understand that or your future here will be very short.
      You’re lucky in a way. You are living in an area where you CAN get some Australians to do SOMETHING. Head a bit further afield to a land that those living in the big cities absolutely refuse to believe exists – understandable with our current education system. People will NOT leave cities and go to places where, even on the chance it exists, the Iphone reception is a bit dodgy and NBN just doesn’t exist. It gets, sometimes, bloody hot. It gets, sometimes, bloody cold. Living with such inconveniences ia waaaaay beyond the thinking of the average city dweller – especially where they can sit on their collective arse in Sydney and Melbourne receiving government handouts and can reinforce each other, every day as to how clever and smart they are.
      So, the stupidity of yesterday’s article, goes exponential when the fact s are that, in a large proportion of cases, it is simply a FACT that no labour is available.
      The situation is aggravated further by Andrews et al with their lockdowns – with et al including all those sitting around on their arses, mainly at home, on full PS salary singing “we’re all in this together” BS!!!!!

      P.S. That said – there is NO worse alternative than flying in backpackers from overseas to solve this problem.

    • Arthur Schopenhauer

      Thanks for that expose LeMon. How is the return from a Farmer’s Market? I assume it is only viable for a very narrow range farm setups.

      • Farmers markets are hard slog. By the time you factor in your time spent at the market (best part of a day by the time you’ve packed, driven and set up/knocked down, driven home, unpacked, cleaned etc, and paid a pretty hefty fee on top, your average stall holder lasts around five years.

        I was lucky and got out as had a tourist/B&B option, but all stall holders deserve sympathy and respect for what is mostly an idealistic labour of love/ hard slog for little return

      • Luckily for us, bailing from the city meant no debt now and for the future, so the fact that a week’s slog for two of us growing, harvesting, cooking, bottling and selling at the market sometimes earns about the same as I used to earn in an hour in the IT days only hurts a little.
        Very best we’ve done at a farmers’ market was in the run up to Christmas last year, when we still had hams to sell, which totalled the equivalent of five hours IT earnings; and we were still keeping pigs then, so the work aspects were about double what we do now.
        Would I go back to IT and sit in a place in the city, complaining that everyone vulnerable should just die so I could eat out in my favourite restaurant?
        Not in a pink fit. I like being poor by Mig’s standards…

    • You go for dollar a litre milk, dollar a kilo spuds, dollar loaves of bread, cheap foreign pork, etc., etc. and everything else that the “down, down” price ethos has produced, which in turn has forced the “get big or get out” modern philosophy of industrial “farming”.

      Those prices are too high. I’m on acreage and my wife and I grow a lot of our food, and it’s much, much cheaper than WW or Coles.

      • Growing a bit of supplementary food in your back yard for yourself is an entirely different story. If it’s your livelihood you must make enough money to pay yourself, your mortgage, labour, machinery, power, water, inputs, storage, marketing and transport.

        My old food coop is still going strong but as a non profit and depends on volunteer labour at every step.

        IF we want farmers in the future food is way too cheap.

        • Yeah, but if you make food expensive, the unwashed masses might get a little ruffled. Oh, and you get inflation! I can almost hear Dr Lowe: “Do you want inflation? Because that’s how you get inflation!”

          • Dr. Lowe’s problem is he thinks what we had last year was “normal”. Sadly, the long slide we’ve just begun is taking us to a different “normal” and I admit to not having the faintest clue what it will be or even if the process will be finished in the lifetime of anyone commenting on this blog. I have some hopes; and going from IT to farming is based on those hopes, but…

    • 1000 Agree. But you’ll never get city dwellers interested. Food comes from supermarkets. Duh. Boring.

      As a small horticultural grower of avocados, fruit and nut trees in SW Gippsland, yup, and preserves and baked goods of every description, and member of an organic food coop for ten years, I can confirm the 80 hr/7 day weeks and the skill and dedication that goes into small farming, reforestation, soil repair and conservation.

      What people don’t realise in advocating that if small farmers can’t make it that they must bow to progress/agribusiness and be mopped up by large scale factory farming – is its total unsustainability.

      I’ve also posted in recent days on this and that if the govt doesn’t step in with massive assistance and re-education in regenerative mixed farming methods, reforestation and a responsible plan for water use, Australian farming is toast within 20 years as agribusiness has strip-mined our soils and what water we have, completing what the first 150 years of European farming began – the destruction of this ancient, fragile land with its little stirp of fertile soil paved over for cities stretching from Cairns to Tassy.

      Yup, the first step is to charge a fair price for food. But try telling that to people who are unemployed and about to become homeless.

      • Haywood JablomyMEMBER

        Great comment, particularly re what govt needs to do. Given that, I fear we are stuffed. What do you do when the leaders who formulate policy for the country have no apparent knowledge of, let alone interest in, pursuing sound measures like those you suggest? It is them as leaders who have a responsibility to be above pure-self interest and steer the rest of us in the right direction, but in general they only react to disastrous failure when they have no choice.

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      Great read @Lemon3

      That is basically the dynamic. Farmers get shunted along the road of being enforcers of lowest price by the supermarkets.

      I think Bob Katter has the right idea vis supermarkets. Coles & Woolworths ran as a virtual duopoly until the arrival of Aldi. They were the highest margin retail outfits in the developed world. Aldi achieve a lot of their ‘bargain basement’ price posture by some first class tax avoidance and profit shunting. There needs to be a look at the whole sector.

      Your thought for the day……..

      ‘The battle of competition is fought by cheapening of commodities. The cheapness of commodities depends, ceteris paribus, on the productiveness of labour, and this again on the scale of production. Therefore the larger capitals beat the smaller.’ Further, the credit system which ‘begins as a modest helper of accumulation’ soon ‘becomes a new and formidable weapon in the competitive struggle, and finally it transforms itself into an immense social mechanism for the centralization of capitals”

    • Okaaaaayyyyyy! I must remember to copy everything write in here!!!!
      So a quick summary of the more lenghty reply in support of LeMOn.
      First, thank you LeMon.
      Just this…You are fortunate to live in an area where you can get labour at all! In many farming areas mobile phone reception is dodgy at best. No twitface??? Impossible! So that precludes the possibility of our city dwellers getting themselves mobile and getting out to actually work.. It’s easier and more comfortable to sit around in the city and get government handouts – who needs to go to out into places where there are not all the luxuries of modern city life and work?????
      So, yep, bringing in foreign backpackers is a bad idea but….hmmmmmm….can we have some actual solutions to the problem?
      Can we have some support for abandonment of totally idiotic economic policies designed to drain rural and regional Australia in favour of Sydney and Mebourne?
      Can we have a discussion about how the lockdown policies destroy ANY possibility of getting extra labour into regional areas?
      “We’re all in this together” Bwahahahaaaaaa!

    • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

      Aussie farmers would be happy to employ Aussies at fair wages, if you [email protected] would actually pay fair value for the fruit, veggies, meat and cereals they produce.

      That is it in a nutshell – but it extends to a whole lot more than just farm produce, it is the end result of treating a society as an economy and framing every social decision in an economic context, such that we know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

      • migtronixMEMBER

        Hang on a sec, all that was said above is farmers would be OK paying slightly more and hire Australians at still only very temporary conditions with zero benefits accruing, if you pay them a lot more for the produce.

        They didn’t say they be happy to employ full time paid labour all year round offering sick leave and holiday pay and all the horrible things we have in the cities.

    • I have tried a couple of replies to LeMon both of which have been deleted for no particular reason.- thank you for your contribution. MB doesn’t seem to like the opinions of anyone who knows anything at all about rural industry and life in reality in rural Australia.

    • Economies of scale. Produce small volumes, you need higher prices to cover production costs. You sell to a different market than the big boys, so what’s the big deal?

      • Sadly not, the big fellas set price expectations and we smaller producers wind up constrained in the prices we can charge above theirs.

        • Hey LeMon3, I did assume your products were superior to what is sold at the large chain supermarkets and as such would be marketed to those consumers looking for quality produce. Totally understand that if you’re selling into the same market, then yes, price is set by the big end of town. I do love my broccoli and the broccoli in your avatar looks delicious.

    • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

      To summarise, I want to vote for a government that makes everyone do the right thing by you and me.

      A big Australia, free market is everything but that.

    • Haywood JablomyMEMBER

      In my experience the local greengrocer and butcher don’t charge us “[email protected]” much more than the supermarkets, and certainly not up around the prices you’ve tabled.

      • If you stop buying from the supermarkets, you take away their price setting powers. Then the price of food goes up. Maybe. Maybe some other parasite steps in to set prices elsewhere in the production chain 🙁

        • Haywood JablomyMEMBER

          Sadly, these days I suspect you are right. There’s always someone looking for an opportunity, like the bloke described elsewhere here today clipping the ticket on trading of water rights. You can find someone to do almost any useless or destructive thing if there is money in it.

        • Haywood JablomyMEMBER

          Well duh. But there are those of us who would continue to shop at the butcher and greengrocers even if prices were higher, within reason. Not much use arguing the [email protected] consumer who is trying to balance their own budget should pay more on principle when others in the chain are not prepared to compromise on their own profitability. What about the eateries that, during normal times, make a killing buying cheap produce that they turn into overpriced dishes? Are they going to give up their profits?

          If produce costed more, people would pay more or forgo the purchase. Not everyone is in a position to avoid supermarkets, and that doesn’t make them [email protected] The real [email protected] are the politicians and so-called expert advisors who do nothing to rein in the excesses that tend to naturally come about when ‘the market’ is left to regulate itself.

      • I don’t know this business in particular.
        There are a couple of similar operations here, one selling into Sydney, the other selling in the local towns. The Sydney focused business is mostly marketed around better quality produce for the same price as the major supermarkets, as far as I can tell, the sole benefit to the producer being prompt payment.
        The locally focused mob give much better prices to producers, but the only thing we produce they want is the jams and preserves. My wife said “I didn’t come up here to spend my whole life in the fcuking kitchen!” so we don’t supply them.
        The markets we do have the kitchen running about five days a month, which is plenty thanks.
        If your business has the second focus, rather than the first, I wish you well with it.

    • LeMon3 – Agree with the general view that farmers need to be paid more for their food (assuming it delivers greater nutrient density) than cheaper counterparts. The testing for this stuff is coming and the average punter will be able to see how poorly the average supermarket nutrition values are.

      My issues with farming stems from the fact that most farmers degrade their ecosystems to extract a profit. We are getting better at regenerative farming (Colin Seis, Gabe Brown, Richard Perkins, Richard Maynard) all as examples of pioneers who are regenerating their farms and soils. I laugh at the vegan movement because they fail to release how detrimental the average crop field is for soil health, stored carbon and biosystem function.

      I fear however you are preaching to the wrong audience, most people on here could not tell you anything about mycorrhizae or the broader soil food web. It’s these biological processes which grow food, not synthetic NPK fertilisers. They don’t know the difference between nutrient dense foods vs the average crap bought in the supermarket. Food is medicine and chronic diseases will continue until this knowledge is clear. The change will come from passionate consumers and farmers wanting to fill that niche. Eventually the niche becomes the main stream. As an example, General Mills is asking all its grain producers in the US to run cover crops between their cash crops. Change is coming and will be the norm soon. Will most farmers be ready? I don’t think so.

      I own 420 acres and farm very much part time as I work in the city. Selling this for something smaller which I can manage every day and start making the impacts I want.

      The final point I would make is that the supply chain and regs are setup to support the big outfits. It’s illegal to sell farm culled meat in Australia. Ironically when tested, most abbatoir meat has more toxic bacteria than something dropped in the paddock. We need regulatory change to make it easier for farmers to make money so rather than selling a live animal for $5 a kilo, they can process and achieve $25 a kilo.

      I am hopeful things are changing but like you I’ve put my money where my mouth is.

      • Good on you Gareth. I’m doing something similar, but regarding your comment that people here couldn’t tell you about the soil food web, I’m of the opinion there’s not much point preaching to the converted and all that.

        Besides I think you’d be surprised how many people here do have an inkling, (some pretty smart people here) and I figure as time’s running out, if people don’t know that their food is produced unsustainably and their kids could actually go hungry, how can they push for change?

        So I bore on about it, as, like GW, it’s pretty sad that anyone should still be advocating techno fixes like bigger and better machines for bigger farms for dog’s sake, when what’s needed is the exact opposite.

      • Thanks for that Gareth, I have to admit to being surprised by the response to the post. I was expecting a whole lot more negativity and pushback, but it’s been an eye-opener to see that there are quite a few across the issues. Not that it will get us any solution and frankly, there are no solutions; it’s just a whole series of bad choices available for the future, of which people paying a third of their income in order to eat is but one. Still, today’s response, those farmers you mention, and more like Salatin, Mollision, Holzer, Doherty (and a whole host of less famous regen aggers l know) do give me hope that some less bad choices may exist…

        • When I 1st bought my farm I got Darren Doherty onto the property for consultation. Very switched on guy but dont agree with everything he does due a very mechanical mindset. Also spent some time and had Rowan Reid onto the farm, planted out 2000 trees in a mix of Yellow Stringy’s, Black Walnut, Red Ironbarks and Spotted Gums. All got torched in the summer fires unfortunately.

          Glad to hear there are more like you and me that 1st thought…more reason for hope.

      • Thanks everyone, a really interesting discussion. For novices like me, are there any useful “starter” texts on regenerative farming that I should read?

          • Thanks, just googled him. There is a truckload of literature that i didn’t know existed.

        • Toby Hemenway’s Gaia’s Garden, Joel Salatin (anything written by this guy), Dave Jacke’s Edible Forest Gardens are a few of my favourites

        • Lots of good books but would recommend you have a watch of Gabe Brown and what he has done in North Dakota.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUmIdq0D6-A

          Books
          Bill Mollison (Permaculture guru)
          Richard Perkins (Permaculture lens, stacked biological systems. Technical with good business insights)
          Gabe Brown (Core Tenants of regen ag)
          Alan Savory (Technical grazing management, Spiritual and a bit cultish for me)
          Darren Doherty (Technical but very well read, comes from a Keyline philosophy)
          Joel Salatin (World leader in regen ag, very strong views but great philosopher and understanding ecosystem dynamics)
          P.A. Yeoman (Australian Pioneer on 7 tenants of farm design…engineering lens)
          Peter Andrews (Very focussed on water system functions and creek/river regen focussed on slowing and storing water)

          Water is key in all of their philosophies but they all reach the outcomes in very different ways. For me, soil carbon (Gabe Brown) approach makes the most sense and can be scaled up and down appropriately. In short, protect and grow the soil using photosynthesis and the integration of livestock. No synthetics (NPK).

    • Rorke's DriftMEMBER

      Lemon3, I buy my groceries at a Sydney inner west organic supermarket. If stuff is labelled organic then I dont look at the price, I just buy it for nutrition. Can I trust organic labelling though, or is it all bushllit?

      • For organic certification info I rely on a mate who grows organic avos up near Alstonville. He’s NASAA certified and something of a purist when it comes to what organic actually means. His take is that NASAA are the toughest certifiers and that the other bodies (something like 17 of them at one point) were started for or by farmers/industrialists who couldn’t make the cut and wanted an easier (ie more industrial, more chemical) path to certification.
        So is certified organic bs? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, and always imperfect. But, if you live in a city and can’t get out to inspect your favourite farmer’s practices yourself, then it’s all there is.
        So, re-reading that, none of it is really helpful, is it? Sorry…

    • I feel the issue is of knowledge and experience.
      I started growing lettuce in the backyard and if i knew before how long it would take to grow one, i would have had a lot more respect for the food i buy and what it costs in time and money to grow it.
      Without that exposure early in life, your consumers can go a whole lifetime never actually valuing what you are selling.
      I feel like the construction industry benefits from promoting the DIY movement.. the appreciation people get after trying to DIY something and realising there is a skill, art and effort that goes into soing something properly.. i think the farming and agri is missing that.
      Someone, like bunnings did for the DIY, needs to invest in the same for agri business to really push the grow your own movement.

    • So, humour me, aside from Lemon and Gareth, how many readers have made a hedge in a rural piece of land?I am a small farmer, own mine outright, but quite interested in the answer…I see you blokes commenting on holding gold, bitcoin etc..In a deflationary market or a major depression , with a dose of covid, and runs on just in time food logistics, I am interested to see if any have thought about an investment in a rural “hedge” , so to speak…

      • I’m guessing your answer will be “almost none”. After experiencing a taste of life on our farm, there are a few mates in Sydney who have changed their bug-out plans from “buy a small farm in the boonies” to “make sure there is enough fuel in the tank to get to Wherrol Flat” 😉

        • Cheers Lemon for the reply…My oldest nephew works in Mining, and he has discussed this thing called Critical Risk, and Critical Risk mitigation…quite fascinating, when brought back to a farm business….or I guess just ones life….I would of thought the readership of MB would of put what is happening, under this scrutiny…But , I am just a rural bloke, being educated by the young members of our family, I like to understand how different businesses “work” and how they think, so I can pick up anything…Especially in these times..I would of thought more to build a life boat..

  7. Ronin8317MEMBER

    The story about US demanding 1.6 Trillion dollars from China means the GOP is going to recognize Taiwan as part of China? I’m sure Xi will happily pay that much to buy Taiwan from the US.

  8. How’s that elimination strategy working out for ya NZ, + MB and resident shut ins. Lock down forever!

    • Comparison of Estimated Excess Deaths in New York City During the COVID-19 and 1918 Influenza Pandemics

      These findings suggest that the mortality associated with COVID-19 during the early phase of the New York City outbreak was comparable to the peak mortality observed during the 1918 H1N1 influenza pandemic. Recent polling indicates that a majority of individuals in the US believe that some states lifted COVID-19 restrictions too quickly.6 Specifically, shutdowns did not adequately lower caseloads in many areas, meaning that subsequent spikes in new cases during the summer stretched US hospital resources in many areas. We believe that our findings may help officials and the public contextualize the unusual magnitude of the COVID-19 pandemic, leading to more prudent policies that may help to decrease transmission by decreasing the effective reproduction number of SARS-CoV-2 and prevent the exhaustion of essential supplies of life-saving resources in the coming weeks and beyond.

      https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2769236

      OK … so firstly the lack of systems in place to both inform and then deal with – any – pandemic should be your first question, secondly one might consider why so much information is both not shared and highly questionable in nature, lastly were the savings – at the time – by reducing expenditure in the past even close to the loss created by a pandemic – not to mention the huge increase in expenditure without much controls spewed at the private sector.

      One would think the logic [tm] that got us into this mess might have a few bugs …

    • Working out exactly as Drx predicted. No elimination, keeps coming back- it’s a virus that resides asymptomatically in most people.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Plus 1 …and some of those asymptomatic people are likely to become chronic carriers, erupting back into covid factories every time they get run down, like some crack whore covered in cold sores.

      • It is a degree in geography with a focus on mapping economic characteristics. it is a bull*hit degree done by a someone who doesn’t really want to learn anything (or is too busy climbing the greasy pole)

  9. Aarrghh! Just about spat my toast out listening to this mornings ABC Saturday AM. “Demographer” Lizzo Allen was given a 5 minute plus opportunity to spruik her opinions again ( that’s all they are). Attempting to broach social and economic points she really overstepped her “field of expertise” with her consider this and that ramblings. MOAR immigration was the basis of them all as per usual. In a pandemic, with depression like unemployment she was given carte Blanche to say more of the same is the answer to the problems that those same policies have entrenched. The ABC treat her like an expert which defies the actual credentials that MB has pointed out. FFS, she can’t even leave the biscuit jar alone, such is the willpower, insight and cognitive ability of the woman.

  10. I think we should take these border restrictions a few steps further. Let’s all split and form independent countries, no trade of food, services or anything, no centrelink or Medicare payouts, pay your own army etc let’s see which states survive. The constitution is obviously not worth the paper it’s written on. Next I’d like to see a total collapse of the economy mostly affecting those pushing the elimination pipedream as well as the greedy, here’s hoping you never get a job again and afford a house in your entire lifetime. Share the love brother we are all in this together! And when all is said and done, let the virus rip through the place anyway haha

  11. News just in …. Kamala Harris is not “AfricanAmerican”, but JamaiCanadian.

    The Mighty Wurlitzer keeps folding in on itself …

    • migtronixMEMBER

      But that Trump is basically a mill for eastern european chicks to get into murika illegally skates by these people.

      But it’s totally not about race and never has been.

      • In America you are what you want to be …. this in some locations can change due to the hour of the day and currant location.

        PS. lest we forget Class transcends race, it is, as it ever were.

  12. pfh007.comMEMBER

    MyRBA: The Quick Guide and helpful links

    Some readers of the Glass Pyramid have requested a Quick Guide to the main points about MyRBA that they can send to people to get them up to speed quickly.

    Here is the 10 point summary.

    Following the quick guide are a series of links to more detailed posts on aspects of MyRBA for those who like a bit more fibre in their monetary reform.

    https://theglass-pyramid.com/2020/08/15/myrba-the-quick-guide-and-helpful-links/

    Enjoy the weekend, it is a glorious day in Sydney today and Head of Research demands a walk.

    • call me ArtieMEMBER

      Keep pushing it PHF. It’s an idea presented in a way most punters will be able to understand. If you can just get some MSM attention it might fly. I would personally love it (I think). Artie

      • pfh007.comMEMBER

        Thanks Artie!

        You would think that giving Australians the ability to open and operate deposit accounts at the RBA would not be controversial.
        After all they are already allowed to use notes and coins issued by the Reserve Bank so why not deposit accounts.

        Especially deposit accounts that pay no interest.

        The main problem are the implications for the current privileged position of the private banks. Their privileges depend on having a monopoly over deposit accounts at the RBA. They would lose their ability to create what is effectively public money out of thin air.

        Ultimately, if people are fed up with the private banks and the cost of policing their propensity to thieve then the only permanent solution is to democratise the foundation of the public monetary system and that means giving the general public access to the balance sheet of the central bank.

        A democratic central bank balance sheet would really get the ball rolling on fixing a bunch of other policy problems that flow from the current role of private banks in the monetary system.

      • pfh007.comMEMBER

        Thanks HJ

        If you have any questions or suggestions let me know and I will try to address them.

  13. migtronixMEMBER

    “The FSD improvement will come as a quantum leap, because it’s a fundamental architectural rewrite, not an incremental tweak. I drive the bleeding edge alpha build in my car personally. Almost at zero interventions between home & work. Limited public release in 6 to 10 weeks.”

    The CEO of a $300B company – and new dad – uses the bleeding edge alpha build to drive himself to work. Think I’ll dump my TSLA shares Monday..

  14. The Penske FileMEMBER

    Thanks for the link about the poor fit and healthy 20 something who succumbed to Covid…….
    I thought a site that seems to be always probing for the facts would at least try in this case. Dan Andrews told us no more than that fluff piece to help keep the masses following the narrative.

  15. Stewie GriffinMEMBER

    Around France, minorities face other medical challenges. Last October, France’s top official for defending citizens’ rights reported that it is 6.5 times harder for people with “Muslim African names” to get psychiatry appointments than others.

    https://apnews.com/0c3f1ae72ca05f66f4916d28f0962a87

    So who is this top official – let’s do a google search on a key phrase….

    https://www.google.com/search?q=France 6.5 times harder for people with “Muslim African names”&biw=1413&bih=817&ei=CCA3X8mPBILn9QP-tLyIAw&start=10&sa=N&filter=0&ved=2ahUKEwjJs4yk7pvrAhWCc30KHX4aDzEQ8tMDegQICxAt

    i.e. google “France 6.5 times harder for people with “Muslim African names” ”

    What we find after turning off the exclude repeat results is over TWENTY FIVE pages of Google search pulling news articles using the EXACT same quote – but not a single reference to who that supposed “Top Official” for defending citizen’s rights happens to be.

    Just remember the reason why there is a difference in life outcomes between Indigenous French and African migrants ISN’T because there are group population differences, it is because a nameless “top official” says its because the Frogs are rac!st…. and the media say so.

    Rinse and and repeat.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        I find French blokes generally annoying, French women however are much more amicable – frog’s legs are delicious!

        • bolstroodMEMBER

          Referring back to the cheap food thread…
          Frogs legs were only eaten because there was nothing else to eat.
          Look around the national dishes , Scotlands Haggis, English / german Balck puddings, Italian spaghetti boulanaise,
          and not least look up the menu for a ancient Roman banquet, field mice, sparrows, insects.
          Food was scarce, people were hungry or starving.
          Soil scientists estimate that the Earths soils have 60 harvests left in them due to modern “farming” techniques.

          • Potatoes and sour cream in Deutschland.

            Sixty harvests left; but that’s with oil inputs every step of the way.

            Take the oil away. (war, shortages, bankruptcies)…..

            Maybe twenty before the great die-off begins.

          • Regenerative farming practices have proven they can stop and then reverse this trend. Colin Seis and Gabe Brown are but 2 examples

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      Since all the news site merely use the feed from AP, you are not going to find anything different through Google.

      The ‘Top Officials’ referred in the article is almost certainly the HALDE (Haute autorité de lutte contre les discriminations). They are about ‘as Woke as Woke can be’. You may need to know French to search for the original report.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Cheers – that seems to be the French “Institute” charged with finding microscopic trace elements of racism as expressed in French society by residual group population differences.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        You appear to have a reading disability – I said not a single article in the search specified who he was.

        That you appear to be familiar enough with Google’s search capabilities to identify who the official most likely was is admirable, and shows that you are dealing with your disability better than most would expect, yet it doesn’t change the fact that TWENTY FIVE pages of news articles couldn’t bring themselves to mention him or the “institute” to which he supposedly belonged.

        • Stewie, if you knew anything about how news works, and especially the right wing echo chamber you prefer, you’d know that copy is written once and then replicated. Brandolini’s Law, I’m out.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            if you knew anything about how news works, and especially the right wing echo chamber you prefer

            Weird, I was responding to one of LVH’s articles – I wouldn’t say he is particularly right wing. Guess that Journalism degree I did was completely wasted of time and I should have done a double masters in how to be a condescending geezer like yourself.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            The exception proves the rule. Your original intention was the usual race-baiting you enjoy

            Oh so you know what my intentions were, hey?

            …or there is the possibility I read LVH’s article and was curious about the phrase that was mentioned, wanted to find some more out about this ‘austere grievance scholar’ than simply taking the article’s comment for granted and then came across a curious case of the story being repeated ad infinium without ANYBODY doing that simple check?

            Instead I found they ALL accepted it as fact, when a little digging reveals it is from France’s premier Wokestain institution of grievance studies, sniffed out with their electron grievance microscope, and so should probably have been taken with a grain of salt in terms of being an objective and fair statement of fact.

    • Blacks and Muslims in France face racism on a daily basis.This is as simple as being randomly stopped in the street by police and asked to produce identity cards, which are compulsory, to opportunities in housing and employment. And health. This view is based on lived experience in France and fluency in the language. A key moment for racism in France was the football victory in the ’98 World cup because the team was largely of African descent, either black or Muslim, and this identity of French sporting success was new and made France deal with the challenge of historical homogeneity and multiculturalism.

      Stewie, your views are despicable and ignorant like all racists. You talk utter garbage and demonstrate that you know nothing at all but regurgitate racist notions form a century ago which have all been discredited.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        Why do blacks get hassled by the police so much?

        The Occam’s Razor explanation is because they commit so disproportionately many crimes on average, especially murders.

        The FBI says blacks (13.4% of population) were 54.9% of homicide offenders in 2018.

        https://www.takimag.com/article/crime-roaring-twenties/

        Their behaviour and crime rates in France (and Sweden and Germany and the UK and Australia and everywhere else they choose to settle outside of Africa) is EXACTLY the same…. so either all those nations that they are moving to with gusto are rac!st or the problem resides with the population group itself.

        This view is based on lived experience in France and fluency in the language. A key moment for racism in France was the football victory in the ’98 World cup because the team was largely of African descent,

        Thank you for your anecdote, because it is intolerably rac!st that indigenous French, who have resided in France for a thousand years, should have any role models of their own to look up to…

        https://www.un.org/development/desa/indigenouspeoples/declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples.html

        But handily the French, and most Western European nations all passed laws to declare that their populations were not indigenous…. they’re all consumers in their economic zone.

        Stewie, your views are despicable and ignorant like all racists. You talk utter garbage and demonstrate that you know nothing at all but regurgitate racist notions form a century ago which have all been discredited.

        Yes – because all that new age thinking that ascribes all the residual differences in life outcome between group populations living in the least racist, least oppressive and most free nations to have ever existed at any time anywhere in all of human history, to actual social constructs like “white privilege” or “institutional rac!sm, makes so much more sense…. and handily, because there is no way to measure these constructs other than pointing to these residual differences, and banning discussion of any other possibilities that lie outside of ‘grievance studies’ they are impossible to refute.

        I love your ad homiens btw – did you take debating lessons from the Professor?

      • robert2013MEMBER

        Please produce the surveys and other statistical data to back up your claims on French racism. Please ensure there are no confounding variables. Please also ensure that all correlations proferred as evidence for a hypothesis are backed up by a verifiable chain of casuation. Presumably this is the same data that Stewie is “ignorant” of. Perhaps when you enlighten him, he will stop holding “despicable” views.

  16. Arthur Schopenhauer

    I posted this yesterday, and I’m putting it here again because it really works through how different governments are limited to very different responses to the same Covid problem.

    For anyone trying to understand the US and Indian response to Corona, this discussion is an excellent compare and contrast. It also touches on why manufacturing is important for National resilience. 😀

    It’s a long listen, but if you do any business with India and Indians or the US, well worth the time. It really demonstrates how culture, demographics, systems of governance and political imperatives shape the response.
    https://80000hours.org/podcast/episodes/shruti-rajagopalan-covid19-and-india/

    It also provides a bit of context around what responses are possible for Australian governments to implement.

    (One tidbit, India spends US$7/person/year on healthcare.)

  17. What would Keynes do?
    What the 20th century’s most influential economist can teach us about rebuilding the US economy.

    https://www.vox.com/2020/8/13/21364766/keynes-stimulus-zachary-carter-the-price-of-peace-the-ezra-klein-show

    Ezra Klein: What is the purpose of economics?

    Zach Carter: If you ask John Maynard Keynes, he would have said economics is the tool through which we achieve social justice and a harmonious society. I think if you ask most economists today, they would say it’s a way to prevent governments from running out of money or a way to prevent financial crises.

    Keynes was first and foremost a philosopher, so he was interrogating these economic questions as part of a broader philosophical project. He’s really the last of the economists to be doing that kind of project. After Keynes, economics becomes very technical and divorced from these moral questions. It gets some of its prestige from the idea that you could solve economic questions independently of social and moral questions.

    For Keynes that would have been bewildering — that’s just not the way that he looked at the world. Keynes thought economics was trying to solve war and inequality.

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      Good read, listen

      I think Keynes definitely had the moral/ethical dimension to his work, and that this is a complete divorce from most contemporary economists/economic commentators (certainly post Friedman) that Economics is some sort of ‘technical’ or ‘science’ based phenomena (which it palpably isnt) where people never ever ask the question ‘what sort of society or economy do we want?’ and instead just pose increasingly irrelevant assumptions to themselves as an exploration of ‘mechanisms’ of that which is somehow handed down to us on a carved stone, or handed up to us by a lady of the lake with an arm clad in purest samite.

      We are right at the point now where the old NeoLiberal order has manifestly failed. It died in 2008 and has spent 12 years on a machine and is now floating face down in the pool because of Coronavirus. The absolute one thing we can be sure from here is that the world will not be returning to what it has had over the last 12 years, and will not be returning to the world of deregulation and monopoly capitalism which has marked the era since about 1980. The beneficiaries of that world (the 1%) have got all they are going to get from that era, and if they want to push it more they will get a negative return on investment, and presumably start having to spend vastly more on security.

      Someone needs to think of a way out of the impasse we have of having an entire generations worth of demand ‘pulled forward’ by uber debt promulgation, with a corresponding surge in asset prices and a consequent dividing up of the western world into haves and have nots, often around what appears to be an age demographic (not always, there are plenty of poorer aged people, but the aged demographic has more wealth in its ranks than the relatively impecunious younger generations). But the real demographic (which Keynes for sure would have identified, and guys like Marx, Hilferding, Kalecki, Galbraith, Piketty, and Baran & Sweezy chimed in with) is access to capital. Some people can get it from mum and dad, some people get investment with a good idea, some people have collateral, and the vast many do not.

      This is actually the stage Marx was referring to when he noted capital had a tendency/capacity to eat itself. That is where we are now. The economic system (‘classical economics’ insofar as it is ‘orthodox’ or ‘mainstream’ – but not orthodox or classic anything apart from rentierism and vested wealth pandering by governments and central banks around much of the world) is now eating the majority of people in our world – most of us – to provide profits for the uptown end of the world – the 1% – while holding notions such as ‘austerity’, ‘debt burden of future generations’ ‘budget balance’ ‘workplace flexibility’ ‘deregulation’ ‘low taxation’ up before us in much the same way as those in castles being besieged back in the middle ages would often wheel out an effigy of whatever saint was in vogue at the time to gee up/frighten the troops on the walls.

      The last time the world was in a full on eating itself dynamic was the latter part of the 19th century. The great deflation which ran from just after the end of the US Civil War though until the First World War, and then staggered on to the crisis of 1929 and ensuing recession to World War 2, before government spending drove it back to expansion for a generation. Keynes was a definite part of returning that world to growth, and he more than most identified both the limitations of the ‘classical’ model of the era and wrote extensively about the profoundly regressive social implications.

      I tend firmly to the view we need another Keynes about now……..

        • I like Guy Standing. Though there are quite a few who are thinking along the lines of economics to benefit the whole of society. Kate Raworth, Josh Ryan-Collins and Ha-Joon Chang all come to mind. That they don’t believe in profit being the be all and end all means they all get dismissed as rosy eyed dreamers who don’t understand how the world works. Yet their writings all encompass more of the world than many of those who dominate the current economic norm.

      • agree. One thing which happened unfortunately with the technicalization of Keynsian economics in 50s and 60s was that it only became seen as a short term tool to deal with unemployment at the low point in the cycle.
        What was forgotten was his point about the need for a mixed economy over the long period, due to the structure of developed capitalism::

        “Moreover the richer the community, the wider will tend to be the gap between its actual and its potential production; and therefore the more obvious and outrageous the defects of the economic system. For a poor community will be prone to consume by far the greater part of its output, so that a very modest measure of investment will be sufficient to provide full employment; whereas a wealthy community will have to discover much ampler opportunities for investment if the saving propensities of its wealthier members are to be compatible with the employment of its poorer members”

        In a high income country where there is disparity of wealth, and the rich save too much, and the MEC is so unstable that you can’t rely on private sector investment, just stimulating it over time doesn’t work.
        eg. now: interest rates are at zero and still the hoards of savings of the rich don’t want to be invested. Exactly as he said. This is really the repudiation of New Keynesian economics – no the CB can’t just choose the level of employment.

        The state has to take on investment on its own account. That means taxing the assets and redeploying them for social ends. this is also not compatible with the snake oil of MMT. eg. claim you can get full employment without making the rich poorer.

        • Come on MMT draws from Keynes the man and not the Krugman sorts with at its core a JG and taxation as tools for government policy formation rather than waving interest rate magic wands. Krugman is the everything gunna is talking about above … bro where is your excel sheet – ????

          • Where does it advocate for making the rich poorer?
            On the contrary it says a printing press means you don’t need to make the rich poorer. This is a retrograde position.

          • Your joking right?

            Especially in your defense of Krugman et al. MMT is not anti tax, just the meme that currency issuers are revenue constrained is not accurate, Pigovian tax and regulation are effective tools in forwarding what Keynes and others were advancing. Problem now days is the whole cottage industry that was tax avoidance went from a cottage industry on the backs of Corp freebees to full blown international industrial strength.

            Considering the global ramifications of covid I think its a very bad idea and for an ounce of skin produce a pound of hurt for the most vulnerable.

          • Kelton:
            “My wealthy friend doesn’t want to pay for your child care. He doesn’t want to help pay off your student loans. And he sure as heck doesn’t want to shell out the big bucks for a multi-trillion-dollar Green New Deal”

            Further down in her article:
            “Now suppose someone offers you three different ways to reduce inequality, shown in bars A, B and C. Each will leave you with a less unequal society but the same absolute disparity between the top and the bottom.

            To get outcome A, you simply tax money away from the rich (the part shown in gray at the top). This does nothing to improve the material well-being of anyone below, but it does compress the distribution, so inequality is diminished.

            Option B is your standard Robin Hood redistribution. Money is taxed away from those at the top, and money is invested in programs to lift everyone else (shown in blue). Again, the distance (or degree of disparity) between the top and the bottom is the same as under Option A, but this time the top lost and the bottom gained.

            Finally, consider what happens if we simply invest in programs to benefit the non-rich (student-debt forgiveness, free child care and so on) without treating the super-rich as our piggy bank. In Option C, the top doesn’t move, but the bottom is boosted to new heights”

            The wealthy and the poor aren’t independent cohorts, the poor are a revenue stream and cost of production for the rich.
            And if you tried option C at full employment the cost would be disproportionately borne by the poor anyway as they hold a greater % of their wealth in cash.

          • Your still dancing around the core issue of loanable funds theory and a bunch of other rubbish, wrapping it around the poor is bad taste.

            Keltons book is a sampler for those without the benefit of deeper understanding on a broad range of economic issues E.g. its not the new macroeconomic text book put out by MMT.

          • You remember giving pft stick for his behavior, why are you mimicking it now.

            Although to satisfy your question, I did above, but your playing biblical verse games E.g. the book has to be taken as a whole in context and not just set up verses out of context after suggesting a false premise. Bill Black made a mockery of Krugmans rhetorical gaming, but I’m not surprised after your mock authoritarian declaration that one had to be a Keynesian or not, something the man himself would have abhorred. Passed that by Lars and gang and the response was not kind.

            Go ahead and paint yourself into a corner, will be like half around that now change long held positions and blithely act like it never happened and then expect respect or to be taken seriously. Personally as I said to gunna awhile back, some of us expect something like Jackpot, but refuse to go willingly or quietly and will point it out.

    • Thanks for the link.

      When I studied economics the first thing I remember learning about was the concept of the “economic problem” – resources are finite, demand is infinite. Basically what is the best way to allocate scarce resources – essentially a philosophical question.
      Questions of morality are typically considered under the banner of Philosophy. It doesn’t necessarily come into economic discussions, but it also can’t be ignored either in terms of real world situations. The absence of such considerations has implications on the outcomes of decision makers, who I think are poorly nuanced (government) or too rigid on their beliefs (RBA). Even school level economic textbooks have chapters on market failure and negative externalities, so one can only conclude that the above are ignorant or simply choose to ignore the non-economic consequences. We just only have to look at how the government views immigration and the RBA high house prices. There’s hardly any consideration for the externalities, and only a few sites like MB actually acknowledges these.

      For years the so called experts have ignored that Australian property is basically an example of market failure. Throwaway insights from the spruikers like property is affordable because people are still buying is characteristic of this, although this logic clearly breaks down as one must also consider it affordable at any price. If property was priced at $1b and only the likes of Murdochs and Packers could afford it? Still affordable by that logic. The lack of critical thinking is what pains me. We see outrage when neurosurgeons charge tens of thousands for surgery, and there’d be a different reaction if the doctor’s lobby came out and said people are paying for expensive drugs and surgery so therefore it can’t be unaffordable.

      • On the ethics side, we do seem to live in a world where many people have convinced themselves that the ends justifies the means. At the political level the question is what will put me into, or keep me in power. If that is all that is being considered then the damage and fallout doesn’t matter. Or if a voter has a particular focus they’ll go along with whomever seems to be supporting it regardless of what their total views would lead to, or even if they are competent enough to be a person of power.

        • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

          Our cultural embrace of Gambling in this country adds to this mentality that anyone can “get lucky” and win and that losing isn’t anyone’s fault nor are there systemic failures connected to housing affordability.

    • Thanks again – another excellent resource that I will probably enjoy reading. Just browsing the links and being able to consider the societal aspect of economics makes me think about the work of Rawls re the philosophy of Justice.

    • Not bad, but that site gets a C- from me for not mentioning the issue of our time since Keen’s article a year ago.

  18. Gavin
    Hope you can help
    I have a 57 Chev pickup, chasing a new motor.
    What would you go a 383 stroker or an ls
    400 hp heaps. Want it more as a cool daily drive.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Late model LS motors are the go,

      “ GM LS engine swaps are pretty-much THE go-to power up option for nearly every automotive application. Alloy blocks (mostly), excellent power and economy and limitless adaptability; we’ve even seen them in the pint-sized Mazda MX5s thanks to their vast availability, low purchase price and relatively small dimensions overall. Nissan Patrol owners see them as a cheap alternative to powering up the TD42 motor, when you consider a turbo kit can cost in excess of $5,000. There are several LS motors available globally – ranging in power and torque delivery (not to mention price).

      https://www.club4x4.com.au/ultimate-guide-engine-conversion/

      • LS is probably the easiest however this will probably still require different engine mounts and gearbox/clutch adapter plates.
        You could also think about putting a Barra in (I know Ford/Chevy thing) but the Barra is one heck of a good engine especially if you value low end grunt. You can also buy them used for practically nothing (less than $1k). All the electronics to drive a Barra (especially coupled to a ZF gearbox) are easy to get here in Australia and you can download good stable tunes for boosted engines that will easily deliver 600hp. Since it’s an old style pickup you probably have the room (height and length) to fit a Barra.

    • Banana ManMEMBER

      283 with a powerglide. Actually, just about to buy another 65 impala, i’m going to put the injection off a clubsport on it. Powerglide is a beautiful thing.

    • Small block for simplicity. I love the LS but the conversion becomes much more involved when adding efi and the costs start blowing out.

  19. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    It’s no challenge for the daughters under 12s netball team when they win 43 to 2

  20. https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200814/pdf/44lh7tgy4gd15s.pdf

    NABs 3rd quarter numbers are out….. 86k home loans deferred, 38k business loans deferred, these total $55 billion.

    7.4% people have a LVR over 80% of which 4.5% don’t have LMI
    2.6% people have a LVR over 90% of which 1.5% don’t have LMI

    Compared with total book, deferral customers had lower average savings in transaction accounts and higher average use of credit cards prior to the pandemic

    • ~30% of deferral customers have no redraw / offsets available
    • ~70% of deferral customers are <3 months ahead on repayments

    NSW has ~40% of deferrals and VIC as 32%, followed by QLD @ 16%

    About 33% of deferrals are investors

    V shaped recovery is dead.

      • On the Oh Sh!t side of the equation: ” ~20% of transaction accounts have a >50% reduction in salaried income since April”

        However the Loan Size vs LVR charts indicate there’s alot of equity to be eaten into to.

        The top end of Loan Size & LVR’s looks Donald Ducked. Surely the tactic from here is a slow but steady drip feed of stock onto the market…clearing the delinquents while keeping the marginal price setters hungry.

        • happy valleyMEMBER

          Very touching to read that McEwan (NAB) and Comyn (CBA) have had staff working hard getting in touch with borrowers (resi property mortgagors and small businesses) who need loan repayment etc deferrals. Wonder whether any of the bank jockeys have contacted retail depositors to see how they’re coping income-wise with deposit rates having been relentlessly cut over the years to the point now where they’re earning SFA interest income and are assuming a lot more risk having hard earned with our “unquestionably strong” (LOL) banks. I wouldn’t put serious money on any retail depositor having been contacted because after all, banks don’t really give a rat’s about them? They basically don’t exist in a bank jockey’s mind?

      • Maybe. I think a good indicator will be rents in Syd and Melb. If/when they start to climb, it might sustain many teetering IP portfolios a bit longer.

    • I thought if you had LTV of 90% or more you had to have LMI? As in I didn’t think LMI was optional?

    • How do investors get deferrals? PPOR yeah, but IPs. That’s insane.

      I guess everything’s just nucking futs these days.

      • If I read it right, 16% of the book was Investor on IO. Didn’t even realise that was a thing… pure ponzi right there.

        • Investor on IO is a massive thing. I had people i knew whose entire thinking was “borrow and only pay interest to get rent and offload later for capital gains”… the equivalent of borrow 500k on shares and use the dividend to pay the interest on the loan to sell the stock later for capital gain.
          No thought given to if the value of what you borrowed against would go down.

        • You are surprised at 16%???
          Over at Westpac it is > 50%!

          Investor IO loans have been the driving force behind the boom in prices since 2013.

  21. Ha Ha ….love this Virus! Has the boomers $hitting themselves, I was scared at first but after taking in alternative views and studies I am not stressed. In fact like previous comments I’m stoked it’s burning this whole ponzi mess to the ground. The boomers have all the clout in this country and they are getting smashed running scared. The house of cards is finally collapsing. Houses will be atleast 50% down. AUD one day will be down and PMs up. What a trifecta!

    I had some boomer with 4 houses 2 years ago saying “their” tenants will stay forever and want to pay more each year, nd houses were a sure bet and how mad we were buying gold and we should own 4 houses and will never work again. Fast forward to a phone call and they are crying. One contract sale fell through, tenants all stopped paying rent, some moved out. Ohhh the. tears. Sucked in you parasite. Now they locked the country and are all in fear. I don’t care I take way more calculated risks than covid I’m not old.

    Let em keep it locked down in fear, keep it burning, full collapse, karma is a bitch.

    • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

      Don’t crow too hard. If the whole country collapses, that means welfare, wages, infrastructure, medical and jobs for young Australians too.

      There’s nothing good about where Australia is headed.

      Thank the Labor party and the Greens for going along with LNPs big Australia globalisation. It was always ending in tears.

      • >> If the whole country collapses, that means welfare, wages, infrastructure, medical and jobs for young Australians too.
        But at least now, the narrative matches the reality for these young Australians.
        It wasnt so much the reality of debt slavery, cramped cities, insecure employment and higher cost of living that was the problem.
        It was the constant gaslighting from the boomer gen of how great things are and how being able to take on a bigger debt was the issue so FHB was required , that “younger gen WANT to live in apartments”, lower immigration was never the solution it was always “we need to plan better and build more supply/infra” and “get a better job” if cost of living was too high or “live in tawoomba” if houses are too expensive and stop eating “smashed avocado on toast”.
        It was the gaslighting that was always the issue.

        But now the whole country is collapsing.. guess what? The narrative now matches the reality. Already the truth is coming out in many ways with everyone revealing finally that immigration pushes up house prices, so it was never build more, it was always import less bodies.. noone wants to live in apartments, they are virus infestation camps.. the insecure jobs is an issue beacause it causes a virus to move between aged facilities because people cannot afford to take days off.

        Wait till the depression really takes hold. The young will suffer a lot in this, you are right. But atleast the gaslighting will stop and the narrative will match their reality. And that is important for finding a fair way forward.
        The old way wasn’t ever a real option for young Australians. For you to claim otherwise is just more of the same old gaslighting… an abusive partner saying “you won’t be able to do any better if you leave the status quo” while financially abusing them at the same time.

        • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

          Great comment.

          “The old way wasn’t ever a real option for young Australians. For you to claim otherwise is just more of the same old gaslighting”

          I never did that. I’ve been complaining about our path for 30 years. Immigration is killing us.

          • Yeah good point you never did say that.
            I sort of meant as a point of omission. So what is important in the context is that for the young, it is really a matter of picking their poison rather than this notion of the world now somehow collapsing. They’re world was already closing in on them and were always headed to a collapse.

          • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

            Vote to take the money from the rich. Start with today’s politicians, big business leaders and media. Stop immigration or it’s all pointless.

        • adelaide_economistMEMBER

          Yes, covid19 has just brought forward the inevitable and exposed a myriad of weak points now built into our society through the empty focus on ‘growth’ for the last few decades. Just like the endless comments on here in years past excoriating posters for wishing for lower house prices with warnings of the ‘fallout’ if it happened – as if it wasn’t coming anyway and would be worse the longer it went on.

        • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

          Let’s hope young Australians finally realise what immigration is doing to their futures and Vote against it.

  22. migtronixMEMBER

    “There are seven new cases of Covid-19 today, director general of health Ashley Bloomfield has revealed.

    All are in the community – there are no cases in managed isolation. Six cases are linked to the Auckland cluster and one case is being investigated.”

    Yeah when no-one can travel further than 5k and only leave the house for 1 hour you can get numbers down. So what? You haven’t eradicated anything and it will come back via some vector or other.

    Let me put this way oh geniuses , should we try and get rids of computer viruses by turning the Internet off?

    • No genius, but your last line is very interesting. Yes, connecting everything into one makes it massively fragile. Surely that’s a lesson of the current pandemic?

        • Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Great to have open doors, but not so great what might come through them.

    • >> Let me put this way oh geniuses , should we try and get rids of computer viruses by turning the Internet off?

      Well we certainly don’t let computer viruses rip either. We manage the risk through security control such as anti-virus, whitelisting and so on. We also run our most highly secure systems disconnected from the internet – with strictly controlled input channels that implement thorough testing to detect viruses. Much like border controls in our current situation.

          • Yep, I did.
            But I ain’t proposing that the air gap is liquid tight, just that original self-defeating analogy wrt internet is akin to observing a very tiny aspect of a panorama.
            And then there’s that thing called Linux with antivirus being able to deter all 3 known viruses ever made (of course, there is a comparison to human life in that too).

        • i’d equate lockdowns to application whitelisting – a pain in the ar5e to implement but so clearly effective that it forms part of the ACSC’s Essential 8. 🙂

          • then aren’t we lucky that lockdowns aren’t?

            Application whitelisting, like lockdowns, protect a system by reducing acceptable actions to a very small well-defined set. they can also be modified overtime on a risk v benefit basis where other controls, such as perimeter controls, mature to reduce overall system risk.

            there ya go, maybe a little overcooked metaphor, but still better than your original halfaar5sed let it rip like a computer virus bollock5

          • migtronixMEMBER

            I never said let it rip you idiot! I said put RBAC in place you whiny little snot nosed tard.

          • migtronixMEMBER

            I remember heartbleed very well!! I was patched so just run the cve tests and I was golden. ITS were running around shutting down services left right and center.

            I was aware of it in February, it escalated in May….

          • Fine grained controls such as rbac have their place as part of an overarching secuirty posture that includes strong broad based controls on the perimeter and endpoints. they are not a panacea and and certainly not strong enough mitigation in an envolving threat landscape where much is unknown and the downside risk could be disastrous.

            sounds like SFM is running your companies ITSec team.

            catch ya later internet tough guy!

          • migtronixMEMBER

            Errr wot???? The downside risks compared to shutting off all services and receiving ZERO transactions IS F&@*%G MINIMAL!!

            I notice you didn’t say squat about Heartbleed – which was more like ebola. Infosec dweeb….

          • migtronixMEMBER

            Plus you’re talking nonsense with this evolving threat environment garbage. RBAC stops like 90% of the problems because they originate PBCAK…. just like communicable infections to vulnerable demographics.

          • you’re obviously an amateur on this topic, but arrogant enough to think your shallow knowledge allows you argue authoritatively. i gather that this is a personality trait, given our brief discussions last week and today. you also combine it with an internet bada55 persona which is a little sad given your photo shows you to be an adult. i’m glad government decision making is focusing on minimizing unnecessary deaths, buying time while risks and mitigations become clearer and not acting like c0cksure teenagers.

          • charles bukowskiMEMBER

            thanks for sharing your knowledge Maun, unlike the “whiny little snot nosed tard”. It’s not about winning.

  23. PalimpsestMEMBER

    I love the Fox News headline (that’s where Yahoo served it from) Tax and they will leave – discussing the loss of wealthy residents from NYC. The article itself is a little more balanced. Oh there was a pandemic, and anyone that could leave, did. And real estate went down. And lots of businesses closed. but in Foxland the wealthy were all fleeing the tax.

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      What not even the LNP’s treasured/protected excess franking credit “refund” zero taxpayers are turning their nose up at this just another LNP rort that that keeps on giving – what, the handout $ not enough for these lazy leaners to get off their big fat a.rses to do a bit of form filling?

  24. migtronixMEMBER

    Hahaha of course Spotless is there on St Kilda Rd behind them… Your champion is doing a great job of eradicating the neoliberalism too Sweeper. D#@%bag.

    “Services giant Spotless advertised the positions on the Sidekicker platform as recently as Thursday seeking casual security guards to work 12-hour shifts in “hospital and hotel settings” for the Alfred Hospital.”

    • What do you want him to do? Personally post job ads?

      What would happen if the next penny to drop is when people realise they’ve been had (again) by the Murdoch media re. blaming Andrews for everything. I don’t know what’s going to happen but anything’s possible.

  25. Unbelievable that me and doctor x got banned for spreading “covid propaganda”

    It turns out we were mostly correct, and our propaganda consisted of actual scientific studies and views shared by professors of epidemiology at some of the world’s foremost scientific institutions

    The absolute clowns who run this website along with pavlevitch and a few others have been spamming house price crash propaganda for the last (?) 10 years, and they’ve been nothing but WRONG

    Why haven’t they banned themselves?

    I’m a member because i think MB does a good job exposing graft and corruption in Australia, and the absolute failure that our current economic model is

    But they have extremely poor forecasting abilities, basically to the point of being a good contrarian indicator (the new pascoe)

    They’ve got basically everything wrong: house prices, AUD, United States, covid

    • What do you imagine you guys were correct about. The false fatality rate? The idea that if you die from covid but had some underlying morbidity then you really didn’t die from covid. That it ok to sacrifice older people so you can still get a latte when you feel like it. That covid is just a flu with no long term consequences. That there are sentient floating clouds of covid over suburbs infecting people. That Sweden has mountain goats that protect them from covid. What exactly do you think you guys were correct about. Was it that chicken pox kills more people than covid?

      • It must be incredibly galling that as you sit in your bunker surrounded by tinfoil that normal people want to get on with what is left of their lives. It should be apparent by now that the majority are realising what a crock this is and refusing to comply with the woke snowflakes.

        • Bunker ? Galling ? Tinfoil ? Hardly dude,
          Im sitting in a coffee shop right now thats packed out with people and not a mask in sight. Having just enjoyed my second coffee for this afternoon after an awesome burger and chips lunch earlier on, working on my aspiring novel.
          Earlier on i was out walking through the shops under a bright blue sky (before it became overcast) mixing with the throngs of other shoppers. Later on this evening im catching up with mates for a beer.
          Because Mr TwightTwad i can do that in WA. In Perth. Because of the locked border and the hard lock down that occurred weeks ago. I could even go see the footy at optus stadium if i wanted to.
          So im out enjoying the freedom that the poor people of victoria cant because of stupid idiots who let the virus escape quarantine, along with the people who refuse to do the right thing and help to stop the spread.
          So im afraid there is no bunker. No tinfoil.And no galling either.
          Also what majority are you talking about. The 96% of people in WA who want the border to stay locked down so they can be free to live their lives and get back to running their business. Is it the tourist industry in broome in northern WA who are experiencing boom numbers of WA locals who are holidaying within the state. Is it the flood of locals who now actually have a chance to visit penguin island that is reopened for visitors because there arnt 50 million the china people flooding in.
          So no, im afraid the majority are not saying its a crock.
          Because they are too busy enjoying the results of some good luck, plus some good management but above all because they followed the lock down restrictions and contributed to the solution.
          Instead of protesting in the street because of 5G and masks and such then going online and spreading misinformation about covid because of some deluded agenda.

          • So by an accident of geography the state is permitting you to leave your house (if not the state or country) as opposed to the poor residents of Melbourne who are living in something akin to N Korea. Democracy and freedom are dead but you’re happy so all is well with the world.

          • I see you managed to spot the hidden meaning in what i wrote.

            When i said “good luck, plus some good management but above all because they followed the lock down restrictions and contributed to the solution.”
            you could see the hidden message of – complete random luck as a result of being on the west side of the country.

            followed by

            ” the poor people of victoria cant because of stupid idiots who let the virus escape”
            you could see the hidden message of – My life is ok so im enjoying the misery of the Victorian people as they suffer under the yoke of a dictatorial regime hell bent on destroying all human rights in the state.

            Well done.

          • AngryMan, by all means feel free to enjoy a cup of coffee. Have milk or sugar in it if you like. But for heavens sake don’t mix it with the thongs of other shoppers.
            Just use a spoon or a stirrer. Much safer that way!

          • Ooooh a novel!

            Is it about an orphaned boy who is the only one who can defeat a terrible tyrant?

            A marriage of convenience only to find love in the end?

            The Gruff Older Character Whose Life Is Changed by a Precocious Child?

            The Plain Jane Who Gets Her Man?

            The Unlikely Hero of Humble Origins?

            Give us a couple of paragraphs!

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      Good on ya bro! I’d happily tongue pash both youse boys for the cause, accidentally of course.

    • Not really. Private site, so private rules apply. Plenty of free alternatives and one can always start their own site.
      If you’re really a doctor and have the courage to put your name behind your convictions, feel to post some controversial viewpoints on social media.

      AHPRA seem to be quite slow to react, so you’d probably be good for a while before ending up like this guy – https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-14/melbourne-doctor-loses-registration-after-social-media-posts/12556268

      • Private?
        Private is when closed membership is compulsory to view content.
        As much as I would agree with drX to only one thing: nothing, rules to ban on a discussion ought to be transparent and with integrity (e.g. not political).
        Either way, it is a reflection not on the commentariate.

        • Obviously MB is a privately owned site, hence they can be transparent or make up the rules on moderation as they go if they want. Having to pay $ for exclusive content doesn’t change this, nor give paying members any increased say in how this aspect of the site operates.

          Plenty of others have pointed out that Coming/DrX have been posting the same thing over and over again so it doesn’t strike me as surprising that HnH/LvO have also noticed this and acted. In the past we’ve seen offensive comments being edited and moderated directly, but perhaps this was going to be too time consuming hence the temporary bans.

          • Lol, you just described a perfect set-up of an echo chamber. Opaque rules, ban first explain nutting…

    • Heaps of people here have made good money by listening to MB, and then changing views with them as the scenario changed.

      I’m not really sure what you mean – do you think MB have had, or should have, a single view that they never change?

      For me, I’ve made profit investing, and then trading with MB’s views:

      – with the AUD (from 81c to 54)
      – with US shares
      – with US bonds
      – with AUS bonds
      – with iron ore
      – with gold
      – with AUD (which has been heading up again with iron ore for a while)

      My ‘failures’ have generally been my own, really.

      MB are not perfect, but I just don’t see this whole-sale wrongness you speak of? Are you perhaps not viewing them with sufficient nuance? Maybe you inadvertently have a strawman perception of MB’s views?

      • call me ArtieMEMBER

        1 Burb

        Everyone has to take responsibility for their own decisions. Sometimes MB is wrong, sometimes right. But they have been useful to me by informing me what I need to think about, even if I come to different conclusions about the implications.

        This has always been worth my subsrciption. Artie

    • Cooking boeuf bourguignon for dinner. Packing my things for a drive from Canberra to Ballina to see my Mum and Dad. Looking forward to a couple of weeks off work, which has been a fcking misery this year for a variety of reasons, including Covid. Nursing the giant black bruise on my left hip after a huge slip and fall in the local Woolies due to a mess on the floor. Trying to buy a new handgun off the intertubes.

      Just the usual really, no shenanigans.

      • You’ll need a drink to pull off all that.
        Have you ever read The Toughest Fighting in the World: The Australian and American Campaign for New Guinea in World War II by George H. Johnston (Author) – any good?

        • No, I haven’t read it. I’ve read Fitzsimon’s book which is very readable, and Paul Ham’s epic which I always though was the final word.

          • I’ve tried to read some FitzSimons. His style just bugs me. I only managed a couple of chapters of Batavia.

            However, you may enjoy John Birmingham’s Leviathan, I guess it’s a bit out of date now. Just saw it in the bookcase and might might pull it out again. Also I might get the book.

        • Mining BoganMEMBER

          The two Peter Brune books were good. Those Ragged Bloody Heros and A Bastard Of A Place. The Fitzsimons one is a good read too but I’ve got a soft spot for Ragged Heroes because I read it over and over again before I went and did the track myself back in another lifetime.

        • buttzilla 28 days later

          I read every Hideyuki Kikuchi novel and then Robert E. Howard, now reading all Lovecraft, which is cool because he was the hot writer @ Weird Tales before Howard. Also going thru all the Fist of the North Star comics – as fans have done the translations.

  26. at today’s Victorian government briefing, where Dan Andrews speaks and then the CMO speaks, and they take questions..
    An intrepid reporter asked:
    “would you consider Real Estate to be an essential service?”
    How on earth the entire room did not erupt in laughter is one of the great mysteries of the modern world.
    But really, it happened
    see
    https://youtu.be/JPAZBQkTn0U?t=2309

      • Has it really? Or it was designed like that from the beginning? Fine line and all that jazz…

        • There is a long list going back decades, like say the Sierra Club, where all that is needed is to insert a willing flexian after burnishing their image with some funds. You rot out the institution with corruption and Bobs your uncle. Best yet is its hard to keep corruption out to start with, but manifold to remove once set in and they know that.

  27. TailorTrashMEMBER

    The coronavirus pandemic prevented the memorial from hosting a large public commemoration today.

    However, a small ceremony of invited guests, including Prime Minister Scott Morrison and a handful of surviving veterans, was broadcast live.

    The Chief of the Defence Force, General Angus Campbell, reflected on the moment when the terrible conflict finally ended.

    “Seventy-five years ago, a weary Australia laid down its arms and felt the first, joyous stirrings of peace.

    In the forests of Borneo, the soldiers finally laid their arms and had pause to listen to the songbirds in the trees.

    Ships across the Pacific spliced the mainbrace and an extra ration of rum warmed a sailor’s heart.

    The engines of Kittyhawks, Boomerangs and Beaufighters were quiet, even if their crews were not.

    At home, telegrams bearing the saddest of news slowed to a trickle and eventually stopped.

    An entire country had been called to serve what was right and good.

    A great victory had been won at great cost to all.”

    …and was there applause?…..perhaps not ….it was a quieter time …..but what lovely manufactured words ….75 years later .

    and ..this afternoon attended an auction ( just for the hell of it ) as two chinese hammered each other to overpay for a bit of that land “so dearly held ”

    Was there applause?….Yes …….but I don’t know why ….
    ……..this is a different Australia and one hopes if it needs to pick up its arms again it might find the steel that those
    referred to (with such modern pretentious reverence )
    had in spades …..

    https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12557894

    • Find the steel.. nah mate, we mined the fekker and we sold it all off. I hope we can throw holes at them. Of those we have plenty, it’s where we mined the steel we can’t find no more.

  28. alwaysanonMEMBER

    Another beat bites the dust. We just bought a nicely renoed 120 year old terrace in inner west Sydney (Glebe) today. Even though we were the only registered bidder they went on with a farce of an auction where we put in an opening bid below well below their guide and 8 couples without paddles watched them try to get them to try to get us to bid against ourselves. It was about to pass in with $100k between us and the reserve and the agents we’re like “if you bid $25k more we’ll get them to lower the reserve to that and it’s done”. I am sure that counts as a successful auction in the stats…

    We were stuck working from home together from a 1 bedroom high rise unit since March and it kind of broke us. Ring the bell on the top of the market (we paid $100k more than a similar property in Dec 2018 on the street). While I am sure we are the greatest fool it was nice to buy in these buyer-friendly conditions and we plan on staying here for 15-20 years so I am sure it’ll work out at least neutral…

  29. Post 2008 anecdotes, I wonder if they will publish when it happens here

    “Capt. Mike Clauer was serving in Iraq last year as company commander of an Army National Guard unit assigned to escort convoys. It was exceedingly dangerous work — explosive devices buried in the road were a constant threat to the lives of Clauer and his men.

    He was halfway through his deployment when he got a bolt from the blue — a frantic phone call from his wife, May, back in Texas.

    “She was bawling on the phone and was telling me that the HOA [homeowners association] had foreclosed on our house, and it was sold,” he says. “And I couldn’t believe that could even happen.”

    Clauer had a hard time understanding what his wife was saying. His $300,000 house was already completely paid for. Could it be possible that their home was foreclosed on and sold because his wife had missed two payments of their HOA dues?

    In many states it is not difficult for an HOA to foreclose on a member’s home for past dues even if the amount owed is just a few hundred dollars.

    “I was really in a hurry trying to get home before my family was living on the streets,” Clauer says.

    Sold For A Steal

    But by the time he got back to Texas, it was too late. The Clauers’ four-bedroom, 3,500-square-foot home had been sold on the courthouse steps for just $3,500 — enough to cover outstanding HOA dues and legal costs.

    The new owner quickly sold it for $135,000 and netted a tidy profit.

    “Basically it’s everything to us,” Clauer says. “Having a house like this paid for was huge for us, for our retirement plans. We thought we were so far ahead, and now it’s like we’re starting from the beginning.”

  30. Any pies supporters about? I obviously can’t talk to wife and in-laws about this heady result as they’re all pies

    I still maintain my staunch #sackgoodwin bandwagon until there’s a flag

    Go Deess

  31. “One in four young adults between the ages of 18 and 24 say they’ve considered suicide in the past month because of the pandemic, according to new CDC data that paints a bleak picture of the nation’s mental health during the crisis.”

    Terrible. Little interest in the young who have lost jobs, social connections, joie de vivre. Focus other end of life?

    https://money.yahoo.com/cdc-one-quarter-young-adults-170156796.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIBNUbns5BROQc-9mrKRyjw3npVW9qfajQCIG9gxKSVTVy_MwYLIcrS-oaDLgtYiD9HOXNkHaBVZLub-Kg582UyA-jWQypaNae1Plj3SXC5pXczRgSKrICLX8xFOh8fhET_t3vz9NChFz_CtG86FPUWKIDyxwnq6JkRa7QUcm6lc&guccounter=2

    • I am confused.
      What has really changed for 18-24 gen to become depressed?
      They barely know what clubbing is, alcohol is abundant and the internet/gaming is unaffected by lockouts (if anything they were in similar voluntary condition before).
      In my youth, after 12 hours outdoor, mum would have to drag me by ear to get me home. Losing that would be depression

        • many factors. big one imo is neoliberalism.
          It’s virtually impossible now to map out a plan from you first job to retirement, whereas even 40 years ago this was doable

        • Mining BoganMEMBER

          A result of being told every day as a child that you can be anything you want to be and then hitting the reality of the world.

          • Mining BoganMEMBER

            That’s the way!

            Yeah, crush the little tackers’ dreams early and they’ll grow up just fine.

          • My experience has been their expectations are actually pretty low. Maybe the last 40 years of disaster policy making has created a society which is just very hard to grow up in?

          • Arthur Schopenhauer

            The young blokes I play tennis with tell tales of 600 applications for a single article clerk job and CS PhDs being asked to do unpaid internships, while the young tradies complain about working on sites where no one gives a fck for the following trade.
            Bitter and contemptuous of anyone over 40 who they know, had an easier start.
            You got to feel for them. That and knowing without the bank of M & D they have no chance of buying a property similar to their parents first house.
            All the while being fed made up lives on Instagram.

          • Most younger people I know look ahead and wonder how on earth they are going to make ends meet, let alone ever buy a home (most don’t think they will).

            Many wonder how older people ever did it, because they are told by older people that they did it, so it’s possible – I have to help the youngins’ by letting them know that their elders didn’t do ‘it’, they did something else that was much easier; and, that younger people are getting shafted by a system protected and propagated by their elders. They usually appreciate the insight and validation.

            Most of it comes does to being failed by their elders.

        • Sandwiched between the head f4ck that is social media and living at the bottom of an economic, political and environmental long drop…could be a reason. Plus half of em could be taken down with a spoonful of peanut butter.

        • bolstroodMEMBER

          Gunna nailed it in his comment back up the thread;
          Someone needs to think of a way out of the impasse we have of having an entire generations worth of demand ‘pulled forward’ by uber debt promulgation, with a corresponding surge in asset prices and a consequent dividing up of the western world into haves and have nots, often around what appears to be an age demographic (not always, there are plenty of poorer aged people, but the aged demographic has more wealth in its ranks than the relatively impecunious younger generations).

          • Display NameMEMBER

            Just let markets correct. Let markets be markets. Let people go bankrupt, companies fail. People who make stupid or greedy decisions should bear the consequences. It will happen regardless at some point anyway, it just that before it all collapses under its own hubris at least we have some choices in the way it implodes. Plans can be made, safety nets (not bailouts) can be made available.

      • I have son in the under 24 age group. Three of his schoolmates have taken their lives. Not Covid. Hard being a young male when you’re constantly criticised, maligned in an education system that is female oriented apart from serious STEM (eg not nursing). It’s a different world. War is horrific and I oppose same under near all circumstances.

        .

      • I used to talk to mig about how corporations – for decades – had been targeting kids as young as three years old with Tvee advertising in shaping their world – self perspectives and consumer culture using the best and brightest child psychiatrists huge sums of money could buy.

        This was made manifold by the introduction of the personal computational device and expanded 24/7/365 video screen environmental blade runner bubble. The brain has little quite time to reflect or relax from its demands, one huge gitmo like prison.

        This can be made worse for those that have underlining personality disorders which have environmental, biological, or past illness related sources.

        But then I was informed its all a matter of free will and the market would sort it out.

      • Well the minebot obviously cares not a bit about anyone else’s welfare, except as a propaganda tool.

        But from the actual youths perspectives – lack of opportunity, a couple of “once in a lifetime” financial crises within their lifetimes, climate change, political leaders who largely don’t even bother with a facade of propriety over their corruption anymore and, oh yeah, fascism’s back in style.

        Can’t imagine why they’re conecrned at all.

        It’s “amazing” how many people are suddenly worried about things like suicide and DV, now that they can use them as a reason to have a whinge about “Government”.

    • Can’t deny that some have done very well out of this, and when I think about it, it makes sense as it allows access to a global audience and marketplace which could be attractive to advertisers and potentially one’s own merchandise sales. My question is whether it is sustainable, and whether here in Australia we disadvantaged and can’t take advantage of the above due to time zones compared to people doing similar in the UK/US.

      I also think the window of opportunity to make it is small. Young attractive ladies streaming content might be viable now, but are they going to be able to keep their following as they get older? There are plenty trying to make a buck playing video games – what happens when something new comes out or when their audience grows out of it? One could be an expert in a particular game, but that might not align with the business interests of the game developers who need to push out new content on an ongoing basis. Obviously those who make a living from blogging their travels around the world have been stopped in their tracks by the Covid.

    • I thought companies were questioning the return on investment and reputational impacts?

      It seemed everyone was jumping in as it was rather novel but the numbers re sales are questionable.

  32. UNITED STATES … MANHATTAN RETAIL … A SHOCKER …

    “Ghost Town”: Shocking Dystopian Video Of NYC Shows An Abandoned And Boarded Up 5th Avenue … Zerohedge

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ghost-town-shocking-dystopian-video-nyc-shows-abandoned-and-boarded-5th-avenue

    De Blasio’s New York has finally hit an all-time low: the once bustling city is now on the verge of looking like a demilitarized zone. Between the pandemic and the riots in the city, iconic 5th Avenue now looks more like a dystopian nightmare in a recently shot video posted to Twitter. …. VIEW & READ MORE via hyperlink above …
    .
    .
    Nolte: Retail and Restaurants Flee Democrat-Run New York Forever … Breitbart
    … h/t PH …

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/08/12/nolte-retail-and-restaurants-flee-democrat-run-new-york-forever/

    Crime, taxes, disease, and an anti-science approach to social distancing have chased a number of big retailers and restaurateurs out of New York forever, reports the far-left New York Times. … read more via hyperlink above …

  33. Jesus some of you need to chill out or just need a r00t

    Way too much aggro

    Especially after last nights epic Dees win

    • Crazy. Using SA as a test case will backfire on the State Liberal Government if this goes down poorly – will only take one positive case.