Australia Day Holiday Links: 25-27 January 2020

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Leith van Onselen

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    • 🌼 Extinction Rebel 💀

      PM: Burning Fossil Fuels At Accelerated Rate For 300 Years Not As Bad For Planet As Long Grass

      While ignoring all the climate scientist reports that find the biggest factor behind this year’s catastrophic bushfire season was the fact that Australia is much hotter and drier than it has ever been before – as well as ignoring the reports by fire chiefs that hazard reduction burning in these conditions is more dangerous than helpful – Scotty From Marketing yesterday declared hazard reduction could be more important than emissions reduction in protecting Australia from increasingly dangerous bushfire seasons.

      • SachaMEMBER

        While I dislike Scummo and all pollies in general, he is right in this case.
        By the way, your moniker is enough reason not to take you serious at all. Why don’t you run along now and try to scare some kids into mental health issues with your fear mongering. Scumbag.

        • 🌼 Extinction Rebel 💀

          While I dislike Scummo and all pollies in general, he is right in this case

          Well you could be right …. you’ve only got the scientists and firechiefs disagreeing with you. 👍 But feel-pinions carry a lot of weight in some quarters, so who knows, you may have aced this one! 🏆

        • BM

          Ok, boomer. Yeah much better to reassure the kids, or if that doesn’t work just tell them to shut up when they’ve figured things out with superior critical thinking than your ignorant self.

        • The BurbWatcherMEMBER

          Meh, it’s only bad for the kids if it’s false – if it’s true, or even close to true, it’s doing them a service.

          Kiddies have learnt that the adults won’t actually look after them, and don’t really care if they leave the world better or not…

      • Chairman MeowMEMBER

        Meow. Trying to explain to denialist dimwits that the country is drier, therefore it burns more, is a thankless task. “Dry schlerophylous forest? Wet schlerophylous forest? What? Rainforest burning for first time in millions of years? Yeah nah its THE FARKEN GREENIES FAULT!”

        • SachaMEMBER

          I haven’t denied anything yet you myopic feline.
          So you can copy and paste some fancy words. Big deal.
          They still eat cat in China.

          • bolstroodMEMBER

            Sacha , the big bopper from marketing.
            You sound like my Federal National party rep who I met with this week.
            I have never been lied to more in any 20 miniute meeting.

          • SachaMEMBER

            Bols, did you have a nagging feeling when you were young, but your mummy and daddy kept reassuring you that you were really theirs? And even if you weren’t, they would still love you anyway?

          • SachaMEMBER

            Look bols, my short take on climate change is this:
            Our interaction with our lovely planet in general:
            -Have we been bad stewards of the earth. Yes.
            -Have we raped and pillaged the earth for all that it is worth. Yes.
            -Could you say we are like a malignant cancer that is destroying the host. Yes.
            -Have we been doing this for at least the last couple hundred years. Yes.

            The results have been clear and known for decades, we are a bit late now to do a complete 180 in a short time.

            My biggest problem with the recent hysteria is this:
            -The same sorts of people/groups that conspired to condone and profit the most from this (banks in collusion with governments), are basically the same people you are asking to fix it and profit again. You think that is a good idea?
            I don’t want trillions of tax dollars to be handed over in some blind panic to some faceless institutions that are allegedly going to sort it all out.
            -When this policy is being pushed by an unelected institution like the UN, the hairs on the back of my neck start to stand up and my paranoia kicks in full bore.
            Last: The world is not going to end in 12 years, and we won’t be able to fix it in 12 years. Can we please be sensible about this.

      • BoomToBustMEMBER

        We have a planet that is claimed to be billions of years old. It is claimed that we humans evolved from something else, ie we changed. The ocean levels have been rising for thousands of years pre-industrial era ie it changed. We have a planet that runs of cycles numerous cycles large and small from seasons to solar cycles and all other types of cycles ie it changes.

        This whole planet is constantly changing and cycling through change constantly. But it appears that data for a couple of hundred years is acceptable to call a “climate emergency”. Our climate is no different to 200 years ago. 100 years ago a poem was written that Australia “A land of sweeping plains, Of ragged mountain ranges, Of droughts and flooding rains” nothing has changed this. We have had worse flood and worse droughts that we currently are experiencing, and long before C02 levels rose.

        Time to grow up and look at history. Its not in your favour.

  2. Hugh PavletichMEMBER

    Coronavirus Live Updates: China’s Travel Limits Now Cover 35 Million People … New York Times

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/24/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html

    Shanghai Disneyland and other tourist sites across the country shut down, at an unknown cost to the economy, as the authorities tried to contain the deadly new virus.

    By The New York Times

    RIGHT NOW
    Beijing’s propaganda organs strike a positive note as online anger over the government’s response persists.

    A deadly outbreak is growing. Here’s what you need to know.

    • China restricts travel for 35 million people as the death toll rises.
    • China reports two deaths outside the epicenter.
    • Residents, some displaying symptoms of the virus, are turned away from overrun hospitals.
    • Anxiety hangs over residents on Lunar New Year’s Eve.
    • Hospitals in Wuhan make urgent appeals for supplies and help.
    • British and American governments tell citizens to avoid the outbreak hot zone.
    • Shanghai Disneyland and other major attractions will shut down.
    .
    .
    China coronavirus: Death toll rises as more cities restrict travel … BBC

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51230011

    • SachaMEMBER

      This is the only clock you have to worry about:
      https://usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html
      All the worlds ills that these doomers are worrying about can be explained if you start at the base, which is the miracle of infinite credit creation and the people that control it.
      Funny innit, how the serious media always only talks about the symptoms but never the cause.

      • DominicMEMBER

        Indeed. I note Jamie Dimon lays the blame for slow global economic growth on anything else BUT the debt problem – both private and public. It’s all the fault of Government Policy, apparently – we’re not wasting (pardon me, ‘investing’) enough on infrastructure and the like. You know, deficit spending. Still, one can hardly expect a drug dealer to warn his customers of the dangers of taking drugs.

        From the links at the top of the page:

        Head of U.S.’ largest bank says central banks are fueling a sovereign debt bubble, negative-rates won’t ‘end well’ – Marketwatch.

      • skippy

        Credit is not controlled by supply [rarity] but by contracts and risk factor mitigation … so remind me again which mob with special deductive [tm] powers … gained through magic freedom and liberty optics … unleashed the Gresham’s law equivalent of Dante’s travels through contractual hell – ?????

        The strange thing [or not] is historically this occurred on a hard gold standard, so it seems neither a hard gold standard or pure fiat is the culprit at hand. So that leaves something even more fundamental at hand, you know, the driving imperative of whatever dominate ideological mythos is at play and how that is reflected in how humans view themselves and others and how that enables various behaviors between spheres in society.

        So just like with classic currency hyper inflation some seem to only observe the effects post trade shock and then ascribe all ills on the thing and not the human agency which precedes it … chortle …

    • shawnMEMBER

      “Plenty of people think congestion is a real problem in Melbourne, and they are right. Up until now, state governments’ main efforts to reduce congestion have been to build new roads and add new public transport services. But decades of new roads and new public transport have left us with the level of congestion we see today.

      At this Grattan Institute/State Library of Victoria Policy Pitch event, a panel of experts will discuss the proposal to charge drivers a fee to drive on the busiest roads at the busiest times.

      Speakers
      Ashleigh Cormack – Head of Cities Policy, Australia and New Zealand at Uber
      Lauren Walker – Principal Consultant (Transport Advisory) and Project Manager at VLC
      Marion Terrill – Cities and Transport Program Director, Grattan Institute

      Moderator
      Paul Austin – Editor, Grattan Institute”
      Grattan Property Developer Institute

      • doctorX

        there is even better “solution” ban cars for private use all together
        than Melbourne can fully enjoy it’s top livability

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          Well oldies don’t need cars, see walking club below.
          The missus saw a big group when she was dogging (dog walking fyi) this morn as well.

        • patrick

          nah, the best solution would be to ban immigrants altogether, or limit net intake to 50,000 a year.
          This will fix the other problems caused by mass imposed immigrants too.

        • patrick

          doctorX, the best solution would be to ban immigrants altogether, or limit net intake to 50,000 a year.
          This will fix the other problems caused by mass imposed immigrants too.

        • DominicMEMBER

          I’m surprised Melbourne has a congestion problem at all given that all self-professed anti-fossil fuel activists should, by rights, not own a vehicle at all.

      • GavinMEMBER

        Of course Uber loves the idea. It will encourage more Uber usage. If they don’t consider lower immigration as mentioned it’s a fake panel with fake solutions.

      • GavinMEMBER

        Maybe I recognise the fact I came from a very working class background and if you go a generation or back on my Irish side we were peasants living in the tenemants. Just because I’m now a member of the landed gentry doesn’t mean I’m not still angry about the current state of affairs. So yes class warrior but only because I think everyone who works a full time job should be entitled to a relatively high quality of life which includes affordable housing, health care and education.

        For some reason those crazy scandanaivians get it. But we follow the American line of thinking. Short sighted.

        • bolstroodMEMBER

          “But we follow the American line of thinking.”
          I hope we don’t this time, Trump is dismantling the Social safety net in the US.
          The safety net not only helps the poor, people in need or down on their luck, it also provides safety to the wealthier and luckier citizens. The protection is against the rage and anger and desparation of the dispossessed.
          There are quite a few Trumpians in our parliament, the I’m all right Jacks,I amsure we will hear more from them shortly.

          • GavinMEMBER

            Agree you only have to look to South Africa to see where the removal of safety nets leads society. Private gated communities for the wealthy. While the poor live in the city center which is all but a no go zone for whites in parts.

          • DominicMEMBER

            He’s certainly considering ‘reform’ but what that actually entails we don’t know at this stage.

            There’s no doubt it needs extremely urgent reform. It will bankrupt the country if not.

            For example, retirement benefits are not means tested, which means that Warren Buffet is entitled to both Medicare and a state pension. Kind of ridiculous, right? There are an awful lot of Boomers in the U.S.with more than a mil in the bank and if they were cut off from these benefits that would be a start. And maybe the threshold should be a lot lower than that. Welfare is for needy people – people in serious strife – not a free-for-all tax rebate in retirement.

            That said, medical costs in the US are off the dial – they need to be brought down sharply as part of the overall reform process.

          • skippy

            Dominic ….

            Sigh they cant go bankrupt in debt nominated in their own currency, the future does not get payed back in stuff.

          • skippy

            Did someone say South Africa – ?????

            It is a measure of the success of this fascinating, innovative history that it forces the question: after Slobodian’s reinterpretation, where does the critique of neoliberalism stand?

            First and foremost, Slobodian has underlined the profound conservatism of the first generation of neoliberals and their fundamental hostility to democracy. What he has exposed, furthermore, is their deep commitment to empire as a restraint on the nation state. Notably, in the case of Wilhelm Röpke, this was reinforced by deep-seated anti-black racism. Throughout the 1960s Röpke was active on behalf of South Africa and Rhodesia in defense of what he saw as the last bastions of white civilization in the developing world. As late as the 1980s, members of the Mont Pèlerin Society argued that the white minority in South Africa could best be defended by weighting the voting system by the proportion of taxes paid. If this was liberalism it was not so much neo- as paleo-.

            https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/neoliberalism-world-order-review-quinn-slobodian-globalists

            So that’s a peak at what Dominics and friends mobs predecessors were on about ….

    • doctorX

      much deeper problem there is the fact that now even officially unelected people are running the show,

      • skippy

        “that now even officially unelected people are running the show”

        Can you post date that … umm … too like the mid 70s … chortle …

      • GavinMEMBER

        Problem is central banks want to encourage endless growth. But the planet can’t sustain it. Not even allowed to have a recession now, so we have quasi recessions propped up by QE to prevent the top end feeling any pain and the bottom end goes further back.

        We need to rethink the entire economic system if we are to tackle climate change and factor in the true costs of business which would include the environment and the negative impacts on it. Like I don’t know, perhaps a carbon tax lol. But Abbott fixed that.

    • JimsCB

      The reality of where QE flows is starting to gather momentum.

      I’ve been against QE from the time the Fed started QE 2, but mentioning it was a problem didn’t really go down well back then. People are more clued in now; unfortunately it’s not the people who should be e.g. I’ve been trying to get some of the woke left to recognise the problem, hoping they could make it a bigger political issue, but they’re too busy calling Joe Rogan a racist transphobe.

      So, it’s not going very well.

      • DominicMEMBER

        The frustrating thing is getting the Average Joe to understand the monetary system and how it is shafting them. It’s a near impossible task – they don’t want to know. All problems can be fixed by Govt re-distribution, in their eyes. It’s a concept they grasp.

        Monetary inflation? Not so much. From Keynes himself:

        “By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some.”

          • DominicMEMBER

            The problem is, you cannot fix/force prices of anything by decree (labor included) without setting in motion a chain reaction. Raising the minimum wage does not occur in a vacuum and is always inflationary, for a number of reasons, which means that some people gain (those on the minimum wage) but the majority lose via having to pay more for goods and services and potentially missing out on a bump up in salary (from below). Even more the case in the presence of high levels of immigration.

            Raising the minimum wage is like a cat chasing its tail. Well intentioned, for sure, but the effects are willfully ignored.

          • Darth Sidious

            It is not rocket science. The minimum wage is for the most unskilled workers. If that is raised, the second-most unskilled workers will demand higher wages to compensate for the skill gap. And the effect will propagate through the rest of the wage scales. The end result will be broad inflation or hyperinflation.

            It is still popular though.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            Meanwhile, in the real world, rather than libertarian fantasy land, real wages and labour share of income have changed significantly over time.

          • SachaMEMBER

            Funny innit, when people ask for minimum wage raise of say 20%, and then can’t fathom why from the 10 person work team two of them magically stop turning up, and they now have to work harder to pick up the slack. They must have found financial independence those 2, lucky bastards.

  6. TrooDohMEMBER

    “Wuhan virus: The Morrison Government has potentially put us all at risk”

    They’ve learnt absolutely nothing from the bushfire crisis. A complacent, inept government.

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      If it runs rampant in Australia, the government budget will end up with a huge surplus as most of our age pensioners is killed by it.

      • Arrow2MEMBER

        Megasurplus!!

        But property markets will crash as every boomer’s property gets sold at once (deceased estate).

        Tough choice for Joshy. What to do, what to do…

        • GavinMEMBER

          Cut the pension and watch that surplus shine! Boomers who can’t afford to stay in their million dollar abodes will sell them. Being inner city big blocks we can smash the houses flat and build apartments on them. Think of the GDP. Think of the vibrancy!

          • Popcod

            Congrats on quitting. I really hope it all works out for you. My chronic fatigue syndrome wasn’t diagnosed when I first got it because I was diagnosed as being clinically stressed (which I was). Prolonged work stress is the pits. I haven’t don’t high level career work for a long time now and I don’t miss it at all. I’m sure that eventually you’ll find something to settle with and that you’ll be successful as you seem to be smart, thoughtful and have a good attitude. Good luck!

          • GavinMEMBER

            Thanks. I appreciate that. Something about corporations to allows sociopathic types to rise to the top I find. I look at what others above me are doing with their lives and I realise it’s not true to what I want. We only live once, so it’s important to spend that time doing something you enjoy if you can.

          • skippy

            In saying that Gav its a reference to the time line where people started leaving C-Corps in their prime. They even made movies about it and a term of reference, people took their earnings and punched out to start small business or got into some investment opportunity. Its when I departed, save a few years here in Oz thinking I needed to get a real job with our first kid on the way.

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      Population growth. People not dying either.
      Out of the surf this morn about 20 whities ( white haired ) readying for their 70’s + walking club.
      Australia leading the way researching the correlation between genetics and healthy old age. Maybe that could be why I’m in my seventies and still no grey hair.
      My philosophy is half and hour of discomfort (exercise) gives twenty three and a half hours of comfort. Quite a good investment really. 97.9% return.

      • hm520

        ok, Boomer.

        I really do respect you older guys (65+) who are still super active and in great shape (+/- a great head of hair). I’m 32 and taking a lot of measures to ensure I’m well preserved and able bodied as I age, so I can take advantage of retirement. Any tips?

        Theres a great podcast by a doctor, the peter attita drive, which is about lifespan and healthspan – scientific at times but interesting none the less

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          At your age number 1 tip is don’t worry about it as the stress of the worry could harm your future health.
          Same applies to eating habits, when I used to give dietary advice I always included a bit of junk food on rare occasion as the stress of adhering to a regimented diet/lifestyle would be worse than eating/living badly.
          Case 1/ When I lived in Mosman knew a walking postman who lived on Coke and potato chips. After one year he wasn’t dead. On the other hand years ago when a Aboriginal had the bone pointed at him he would die within days, unknowingly it was the stress that killed him.
          Case 2/, Knew the cop the accidentally started the RC on police corruption many years ago who had the crims and the senior cops after his blood. He said he went to bed one night and woke up in the morning with all his hair on the pillow that fell out due to stress.
          Case 3 / A work colleague used to eat 3-4+ oranges every day and whenever he went on holiday’s he got sick. I put it down to easy access to vit C which made his body have to work harder to extract it from other foods when on holidays without the oranges.
          Moral of the story is lead a good lifestyle but not a the cost of stressing out over it.

          • boomengineeringMEMBER

            Btw, this study on genetics could slightly flawed as
            1/ Years ago medico’s thought that your genetics were static but they are not. Someone with poor genetics can improve it with good life style, and vice versa
            2/ Most health habits are passed on from parents as well as their genetics.

          • GavinMEMBER

            Just read this on stress and gray hair.
            https://newatlas.com/medical/harvard-how-stress-turns-hair-gray-stem-cells/

            PS: I resigned from my job on Thursday. 1 of the reasons I threw in the towel was stress and no more work life balance. I decided to put my health and well being first. Comparing photos of myself from 2 years ago I’ve lost muscle mass and haven’t had the energy for the gym and weight lifting in the last year or so. When I do work out I get run down and sick. Too much cortisol I think. So time to change things. I’m 37 now. Bits of gray in spits but mostly dark hair so want keep it that way. Also want to get back into weight lifting and building muscle.

            No amount of money is worth feeling burnt out like I’ve been for the past 3 -4 years. Now I’ve got a small mortgage I have more freedom in terms of jobs I’m willing to do and stress I’m willing to live with.

          • Mining BoganMEMBER

            Gav, I’ve been banging on about this for 3+ years now but I haven’t regretted for a second walking away from the bullsh1t. Sometimes it’s a bit annoying that you don’t have that spare coin to go do something outrageous but there’s nothing in everyday life that I’ve missed out on since I quit. The benefits of sleeping comfortably every night more than outweighs any perceived disappointment of missed consumerism.

            Plus you enjoy a job so much more when you know you can walk away at any time you’ve had enough.

          • GavinMEMBER

            @MB good to know. My pay got bumped to $180k base salary + yearly bonus + stocks just recently. But I haven’t been any happier than when I was on $110k and probably less so as the work load and stress has increased.

            When I started this job I loved it and didn’t even care about the money. I just liked going to work. I actually looked forward to it at the start. I’d be happy come Monday. Over time things have changed to the point where I dread it.

            I am hoping to use this new found freedom to try new career paths. Maybe even work on cars I love like Skyline GTRs, RX7s, old Datsuns etc.. or explore starting a new business, my friend is a camera man and I think I could grow his business. My brother in law is burnt out because he has too much demand for air con installs (electrician) but I am thinking I could help him manage the business, I also have a deep love of Mudbrick homes so I may see I can work in that field.

            I have lots of ideas and I feel my creativity returning. I feel like my corporate gig required too much group think and I couldn’t feel free to explore new ideas (no spare time). I also want to start playing guitar again and writing song lyrics.

            I could later regret not earning the big $$$ but so long as I can cover the bills and have some surplus cash for travel and to mess with my cars I’ll be happy.

            I just realised I was being worked into the dirt and there wasn’t a minute in my free time where I wasn’t thinking about work. This is why I avoided a big mortgage. That feeling of being trapped was suffocating

            My brother and his wife have bought a Mudbrick home out in Healesville. I like to think I inspired them, they are both hippies and wanted no mortgage like me. They bought with a modest loan and I think will be a lot happier. Same thing for them. Less stress doing what they enjoy and not on big $$$.

            Lots of other big life changes coming too!

          • GavinMEMBER

            Lol Harry already got the dog and called him “Datsun”. 😎 Now got a baby on the way. Missus is 3 months in. Due August. Yes my life is over haha.

          • haroldusMEMBER

            There’s a surprise. Congrats.

            Suggestion, have as many as you want as soon as you can. From experience.

          • DominicMEMBER

            Genetics has got to play a huge part – look at all the bands from the ’60s and ’70s who went hard at the smoking, drugs and booze over a long career and many of these guys are still going strong. What about Keef from the Stones? Someone should research that guy!

          • skippy

            Gav … old joke …

            You get a misses = one foot in the grave.

            You get married = two feet in the grave.

            You have a kid = someone is throwing dirt at your head.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            Just read this on stress and gray hair.

            Interestingly, I don’t feel stressed at my (newish) current job (overall, there are shot term things with tenders and such), but I’ve noticed a few grey hairs starting to appear and in particular a lot of white coming through on my chin when I let my beard grow a bit.

            My dad is nearly 80 and hardly has any grey at all – then again his hair has hardly thinned at all whereas I’m definitely starting to develop a balding patch at the back. 🙂

            Weird how genetics works

          • Frostilicus

            @Gav

            Congratulations on the recovery! No amount of money will turn back time, youth and health.

            Regarding the white hair: white hair on your head or beard is one thing, but when the curlies start turning white…. eiiighhh!

          • boomengineeringMEMBER

            Dominic,
            Met Keith in 1973, he had a grey complexion, thought to myself, that guy wont last the year out, ready to die now.
            Totally agree, wrt scientific research on this miracle.

          • SachaMEMBER

            I think genetics play a minor part. These famous sorts all have personal physicians on stand-by 24/7, being looked after like royalty.
            To cark away too soon would be bad for profit margins you see.

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          Gavin I was referring to sustained stress. My opinion is that stress (short term) is good for you as in life or death situation as per my adventures, when catching a giant wave with 1% chance of staying alive you have to focus all your attention on that 1% to survive, there is no room in your head for for any worries what so ever. When its over your brain is cleansed from even the most horrible of stressors with a bonus feeling of elation. Caveat being you go to bed that night stress free as its over.

          • hm520

            Weights are easy to incorporate. ALso recommended is to get rid of plastics (food containers, coffee cups etc.) Finally fasting is also great to incorporate, 18hours : 4 hours is great. I’ll check out your link too

          • boomengineeringMEMBER

            Lifting any heavy weight slows down testosterone depletion but my bench press has gone down from 400lbs to struggling with 200lbs. So goodbye testo.
            Saved a baby kookaburra this morn on the way to cafeing, had to go home to get a ladder and slide it s head back up the first story Carpark fence.
            Fasting is also good, drink plenty of water

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          I may be still on a short board but its getting harder and harder to get to my feet. Young guys jump to their feet old guys climb to their feet. that’s why I ride mt nephew’s Sunova board specially for oldies.

  8. Xin Jia

    From the links;
    ‘Bridget McKenzie’s sports grants affair adds to questions over Scott Morrison’s leadership too’
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-24/bridget-mckenzie-sports-grants-scott-morrison-leadership/11896266
    The article brings up some good points and mentions Angus Taylor. While it’s not an either or thing and the issues of Bridget McKenzie and Angus Taylor are relevant, the issue of Gladys Liu still hasn’t been settled. While there has been a lot going on the issue of Gladys Liu seems to have faded off into the background.

    • doctorX

      I have a feeling that this Bridget McKenzie issue is just helping the government, it’s a soft corruption issue distracting from much bigger issues
      at the end, she’ll resign and government will be saved …

    • CarlosMEMBER

      the issue of Gladys Liu seems to have faded off into the background ……….. exactly as planned
      Ignore it for long enough and it will go away …… there will always be other sh*t rolling in behind every issue to provide cover, if you hang on long enough

    • Wing Nut

      Morrison is simply not up to the task hence “the most deficient human to occupy the office of Prime Minister.” If a Prime Minister needs empathy coaching it’s clear you’re not fit for purpose. Morrison has shown zero leadership because he is not a leader. Religious people don’t lead; they follow. At a time when we need true leadership, we got Scotty from Marketing.

        • ColinMEMBER

          Whattabout….? Maybe he was? But that was then & up to that generation to do whatever they could about it – This is Now……..!

        • TrooDohMEMBER

          K-Rudd was horrible. As was Turnbull.

          The order is debatable but ScoMo is in the bottom three for sure.

          I think ScoMo reflects a wider malaise in Australia politics. Parliament is now packed with low quality people. Our political class is more detached from the real world than ever before but also less intelligence and less talented. Despite this lack of ability, a lot of these people have giant egos and ruthless ambition. Hence why ScoMo types are able to become PM.

      • SachaMEMBER

        Top dog Pollies don’t have empathy. If you want to be on top of the pile in .gov you have to be morally bankrupt and not know the meaning of ethics. It takes a special kind to be the Alfa (male/female) in ‘the dirtiest game’. That’s why it doesn’t matter much who is running the show, they are all sociopaths by definition; one may take us a bit quicker to the precipice than the other, but that’s about where the difference ends.

        • Xin Jia

          It more the system than the person. Some people don’t like to hear that because it could infer a lack of personal agency but that’s not the point. That’s why when I hear arguments like you get who you vote for and if you don’t like it vote for someone else it makes my mind numb. That’s not to say voting has zero effect it’s just that the voters are outweighed.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      “Imagine how you feel seeing Sanders embrace a transphobe if you’re trans,” tweeted Vox journalist Aaron Rupar.

      Of course, Rogan isn’t a “transphobe” if such a thing exists, he merely says that it’s unfair for biological men to compete against women in sports because they have innate physical advantages. He also said it was wrong for biological male Fallon Fox to beat the hell out of biologically female opponents.”

      Twitter is full of these virtue signalling, puritanical, Woke, SJWs of the Metropolitan bohemian bourgeoisie.
      Fvcken wankers the lot of them and the number one reason “the parties of the Left” have lost their Working class base and continue to be unelected and out of Government.

      Progressivism has its place but the Primary roll of any Left should be the Economic and political empowerment of the lower classes.
      Instead we get this endlessly regressive circle jerking and bean flicking.

    • LSWCHPMEMBER

      This whole ratbag phobe thing should be challenged wherever it arises. It’s just a rhetorical trick to characterise people they disagree with as being mentally ill and irrationally fearful. Islamophobia, transphobia etc. It’s nonsense.

      • bolstroodMEMBER

        Is that a new fire? where is it ?
        These fires of the right CC denying nut jobs are never ending

      • skippy

        What you really mean is Thirdway – Washington consensus blue dog neoliberal DINOs are having a wobbly because a few authentic Roosevelt Democrats are challenging the status quo.

        That is a great thing, and long over due, contra the endless march to the far right.

    • Freddy

      Some of those must surely be Republicans white-anting Dems by posing as “woke”. More believable versions of Titania McGrath.

      • SachaMEMBER

        IKR Freddy! That’s what you would hope, but these people are deadly serious. They now go so far as to claim that maths and language are racist because mostly constructed by whitey. So if you are too dumb to understand it, it’s not your fault but it’s all because of the inherent racism from the evil white male patriarchy. (Disclosure: I suck at maths)

        “Math also helps actively perpetuate white privilege too, since the way our economy places a premium on math skills gives math a form of “unearned privilege” for math professors, who are disproportionately white.”
        “Are we really that smart just because we do mathematics?” she asks, further wondering why math professors get more research grants than “social studies or English” professors.” https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=10005
        and:
        “So, if a person wrote a Facebook comment that said “That their was an example of cissexism,” a prescriptive grammarian might comment back, “I think you mean ‘there,’” and a descriptive grammarian might respond, “You understood what they meant.”
        And while both schools are accepted forms of linguistic thought, it’s important to note that any time we create a hierarchy by positioning one thing as “better” than another, we’re being oppressive.” https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/05/grammar-snobbery/

        We’re doomed!

        • Simon

          This is what happens when tertiary education focuses on profit and student numbers rather than talent.

        • Freddy

          Not sure about the maths comment. The kind of maths being taught at school is not going to make you wealthy. It is more the kind that will turn you into a debt slave, how to calculate debt repayments etc. Meanwhile the WASPs that rule the world hate maths, but are acutely aware of how to steal wealth from workers via inflation etc.

          • skippy

            Naw mate labour theory of value makes your hard currency beliefs an oxymoron.

            It would matter not the state of the currency when productivity and wages diverged in the 70s, then some talk about maths …. chortle …

          • Freddy

            I said “wealth” as in savings. Stick to your theories of non-linear multivariate equations meaning no variable has any significance.

          • DominicMEMBER

            Gee Fred, how can any sane Left-leaning voter defend the utter progtard lunacy that’s going on right now?

            Math is raycist. OMFG.

            In the US many Unis are now adjusting grades for people’s background FFS i.e. they want to make adjustments in order to match up the academic ‘achievement’ bell curves of all the various racial groups so that all groups are equal.

          • skippy

            Savings as in what – ???? – lest we forget the Savings your banging on about in economic terms has nothing to do with wage earners, its a reference to Capital.

            Yet made even more absurd because your camp has been attacking wages for decades whilst simultaneously adding to outflows due to the whole skin in the game – user pays privatize everything profit matrix. Just the idea that your mob has been pushing the oligarchical agency wheel barrow for so long and then to bang on about little peoples savings is ludicrous. I mean you and yours only solution to everything is austerity where the poor pay for the mistakes of the wealthy … so before we even start talking about savings for the wage sharing gig economy mopes how about getting a traditional share of productivity first … maybe that way they don’t have to use credit for consumption and can actually “save”.

            Then some bang on about logic and reason ….

        • drsmithyMEMBER

          The second article is basically making the same point Orwell did in 1984. Language fundamentally defines communication.

  11. Hugh PavletichMEMBER

    NEW ZEALAND … Are property and financial institutions and consultants advising clients of the respective risks of true market and artificial political / planning values ? …

    What legal liabilities could these institutions and consultants who fail to advise clients properly face, as true market values are restored ? …

    Here’s how to buy a house if you’re on a median income … Susan Edmunds … Stuff New Zeakand

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/118984598/heres-how-to-buy-a-house-if-youre-on-a-median-income

    Data released this week probably made many New Zealand first-home buyers feel a bit sick.

    Research group Demographia’s annual housing affordability survey showed it was getting tougher for Kiwi buyers – and Auckland was the sixth most unaffordable of the world’s main centres.

    Demographia researcher Hugh Pavletich said it was putting pressure on the “middle class”.

    Teacher Emma Bell agreed – she said she was struggling to buy, even after moving to Whakatane. … read more via hyperlink above …
    .
    .
    Why did the Central Bank of Ireland generally cap mortgages at 3.5 times household incomes following the 2007 event, when housing markets went overall from 4.7 times incomes to 2.8 times ?

    New Zealand overall is currently 7.0 times overall … the highest within the Anglosphere ?

    Access Central Bank of Ireland background research via …

    Cantral Bank of Ireland – Mortgage Measures

    https://www.centralbank.ie/financial-system/financial-stability/macro-prudential-policy/mortgage-measures
    .

      • Hugh PavletichMEMBER

        NEW ZEALAND – AUCKLAND …

        New dwelling completions in Auckland are on a high but may be close to peaking … Greg Ninness … Interest Co NZ

        https://www.interest.co.nz/property/103360/new-dwelling-completions-auckland-are-high-may-be-close-peaking

        There was a dramatic surge in the number of new homes completed in Auckland towards the end of last year, with Auckland Council issuing 1745 Code Compliance Certificates for new dwellings in November.

        That was the highest number of new dwellings completed in any month by a substantial margin since interest.co.nz began compiling the figures in 2012.

        The number of new homes being completed in Auckland has been at strongly elevated levels since May last year when the numbers began to exceed 1000 per month.

        The number of new homes completed in November was up by 344% compared to the same month five years ago, when just 507 new dwellings were completed (see graph below). … read more via hyperlink above …

  12. 2019 Ghost

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/melbourne-is-set-to-become-the-country-s-most-populous-city-by-2026-with-vast-ramifications-20191128-p53f29.html

    Depression, the article. I like the bit where it says we need a new national story. How about this: once upon a time vast numbers of 1ndians decided that instead of developing their country to an acceptable level, they would just flood the developed world and take advantage of others’ hard work with the connivance of neoliberal governments.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      I Wonder what kind of Debt our replacement population will feel they own to our Indigenous population and what degree of respect they will have for indigenous culture?

      I can’t see that “welcome to Country” schtick lasting more than a few decades.

      • GavinMEMBER

        They won’t give a stuff. They don’t care about the culture they are currently busy replacing. A high intake of Asians will turn Australia into even more of a rat race society. Just look at the places they came from. Everyone climbing on top of each other to escape those shyte conditions. It will become more and more of a dog eat dog society and the Environment will get trashed for it.

      • 2019 Ghost

        Ultimately neoliberalism comes first, before any other supposed principle that these people have. Natives of every country are by-and-large poor and don’t matter. We’re more than happy to import people from cultures who oppose every progressive principle that the people in charge claim to care about. It’s all fake, an aspect of the “national story” that that article cynically wishes to create to justify why we have so much immigration.

        • DominicMEMBER

          Yep, people / labor is just a commodity at the end of the day. Cultures / languages mean jack sh*t to the money people.

          Th economy is a giant sausage machine and all sorts of sh*t goes into sausages, as we know.

    • OlafMEMBER

      What an extraordinary article. Melbourne is gaining population at Sydney’s “expense”.
      If you want a scary window into the mentality of Big Australia proponents this is essential reading.

      • Jacob

        Another often repeated lie:

        “More than half of this growth is through natural increase,” Ms Hill said.

        Reality:

        net overseas migration (NOM) into NSW (read Sydney) accounted for 67% of population growth in financial year 2016, and has done so on average over the past 30-plus years

      • 2019 Ghost

        Since most of Australia’s power elite live in Sydney, they can be even more committed to Big Australia whilst the population gains are endured by Melbournians and Queenslanders.

    • bolstroodMEMBER

      200 years ago the boot was on the other foot.
      thousnads of poor british folk took the trip to India and gutted the place.
      Swings and roundabouts.

      • DominicMEMBER

        … and improved the place out of sight. Then they were run out of town and the place went back to being a knuckle-dragging sh*thole. And if it isn’t why are they leaving in their droves?? And have been consistently for decades ..

        Just pointing out the facts

        • bolstroodMEMBER

          If you mean by improving the place out of sight I will quote to you my Dad who spent 4 years in India during WW2.
          He embarked on the troopship as a young man believing in King and Country, if not God.
          He believed in the “Civilising” power of Empire.
          As he told me, after 4 years in India he came to the conclusion that the only improvements the Bitish made to India, the Roads and Rail system were made to get the troops in quick and the treasure out , even quicker.

          • SachaMEMBER

            Different times bols. That era was the biggest free for all ever, whoever had the firepower got the goods.
            You believe that had the Indians invented the rifle before anyone else they wouldn’t have caused havoc? You would be delusional.

          • DominicMEMBER

            So, to be clear, India’s brush with colonialism has been a net dis-benefit to the country and its people?

            Presumably you are further suggesting that the country would be much farther advanced socially and economically if no European nation had colonised the joint?

            Just checking.

      • Arthur Schopenhauer

        Spot on Bolstrood. And look what happened to those poor [email protected]
        If more Australians knew what happened to the original inhabitants, there might be a little more resistance to mass immigration across all strata of society.
        But as a society, we can’t seem to hold that horror. We’d be a much stronger nation if we could.

    • TrooDohMEMBER

      “The transformation can already be seen when Australia plays India in Test cricket. The Indian team used to draw the smallest crowds of any country when it played Australia in the Boxing Day Test at the Melbourne Cricket Ground. In the 1980s and 1990s, average attendances were just over 100,000 a game, according to figures supplied by cricket statistician Ric Finlay.

      Over the past decade, however, the average crowd per Test between Australia and India at the MCG was 187,000, making the Indians the second-largest drawcard after the old enemy, England.

      The twist is that the Indians no longer feel like the away team in Melbourne. At the 2018 Boxing Day encounter, the Indian fans, dressed in blue, waving flags and beating drums, matched the Australians in passion. The scene echoed the formative English cricket tours to Melbourne in the 1870s, when colonial spectators took sides by birth.”

      So 120 years after Federation, Australia is allowing itself to be colonised again.

      It’s clear that many new arrivals have no intention of assimilating or joining Team Australia. They are coming here to take over, not join us.

  13. hm520

    One of my mates just bought a townhouse in Brisbane (its for him to live in a few years then become a rental – first place). got the place cheaper than when it was built 5 years ago. Was instructed by the selling agent not to bid too high as the owners were desperate to sell and he semi low balled them as a joke but it was accepted. It’s rented at present and only a few years old, so presumably the desperateness was due to cashflow issues?

    • Janet

      And in 5 years time, what will your mate be doing? Hoping for a low-ball offer from someone else, to exit stage left as well? We don’t know. But neither did the purchasers 5 years back. Isn’t it all easy, looking back….

    • GavinMEMBER

      Townhouses are not for me. Need to ask for permission to put in aircon or renovate your kitchen. Strata approval and all that nonsense. Essentially like living in a flat. Not sure what attracts people to them other than lower cost of detached house?

      • Wing Nut

        We live in a detached town house and yes they do have limitations on what you can do to the exterior of the building but you can do what you like to the interior.

        • GavinMEMBER

          Re: kitchen reno. I assume it may be because of disturbance caused to other people that the bloke I know has to run it by them and I know detached housing often needs council approval. So there is no free rides. But for me I’d struggle to work on my car in townhouse situation because of insurance laws etc.. basically not for me.

      • hm520

        Townhouse / apartment complexes are like the community. Having a block of 6-10 townhouses which are tenanted by owners who take pride in the location and respect one another can be ok. While I bought a house, I can see the appeal / simplicity of it, but only for the short term. Not having a yard to maintain etc., especially when you’re still in the bachelor phase.

        Financially my mate will be absolutely minted in a few years, so it’s not a big issue even if the value drops a lot – he just wnats somewhere to call his own and park his cash.

  14. Qualitative Easing

    Vibrancy Update! with Qualitative Easing
    Dateline Bondi Beach!

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/man-charged-with-sexually-touching-three-teenagers-at-bondi-beach-20200125-p53um8.html

    No doubt more misunderstandings based on ‘cultural differences’. Who is to say that this sort of behaviour isn’t perfectly acceptable in this bloke’s culture, just like the Indian tourist caught interfering with the 2 year old last week proclaimed. All innocent and harmless … where he comes from. We really need to change our thinking if we want to continue this program of endless mass migration.

    Suggesting that our recent arrivals should adapt to our standards of behaviour is out and out racialist!

    Next we will be suggesting they all wear those god awful Ed Hardy T shirts and Scotch & Soda shorts like proper wh!te trash males!

    Oh dear.

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      Posted yesterday that I thought Reus may had a forced swim at Bondi, but no one cottoned on.

    • DominicMEMBER

      Many overseas cultures view white women as highly promiscuous – total sl*ts. This guy was doing what ScoMo appreciates – having a go! What’s not to love about the new Straya 😉

  15. Jacob

    Australian of the Year finalist says go nuclear to cut emissions

    Professor Al Muderis, who is a favourite to win the honour along with South Australian eye surgeon Dr James Muecke, called for politicians and ordinary citizens to “work collectively together” to reduce the nation’s carbon emissions – including by embracing nuclear energy.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australian-of-the-year-finalist-says-go-nuclear-to-cut-emissions-20200124-p53ui9.html

      • doctorX

        exactly, why would he even want to say anything about technical details of reducing CO2? personal interest? blind ideology?
        medical doctors are not even Scientists (with uppercase S)

        I have been saying around (and here) for years that nuclear is not a solution even if we ignore the issue of safety, simply way too expensive and way to slow to provide any solution
        even with infinite money it would take half a century before we would get nuclear to produce any significant portion (a third or half) of our energy needs
        same money spend on solar and wind plus pump hydro would make us 100% renewable in 20-30 years

    • GramusMEMBER

      My god…
      Look what china was up to in Wuhan.

      China had just opened its national bio-hazard research facility in Wuhan which was working on designer viruses. Significant concerns were raised about the potential for viruses to escape the facility.
      https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487
      Chinese designed flu programs – https://www.nature.com/news/scientists-create-hybrid-flu-that-can-go-airborne-1.12925

      The bio hazard facility was researching SRAS related corona viruses and making new types of flu by mixing genes…

      “A team of scientists in China has created hybrid viruses by mixing genes from H5N1 and the H1N1 strain behind the 2009 swine flu pandemic, and showed that some of the hybrids can spread through the air between guinea pigs,” the article revealed.

      Has this thing escaped from a lab? Note, they can’t figure out the origins of this thing and whether is comes from bats of snakes… mixing genes….

      • nyleta

        If it turns out to be bio-engineered you wouldn’t want to be holding any biotech shares anywhere……they are really self regulated these days but that would change in a hurry.

        Best wishes to those combating this in the name of humanity and I hope we are offering whatever help we can.

        • Mining BoganMEMBER

          We’ll help by receiving lots of coughing refugees who can buy apartments with cash.

          That’s about as far as we go.

      • desmodromicMEMBER

        Strewth, that is playing with fire! One of the reasons H5N1 hasn’t become a pandemic it that it doesn’t have the receptors to bind to the upper airways of mammals, unlike H1N1. The risk here is that H5N1 has a high mortality rate in humans because people die within days from viral pneumonia–they drown in their own fluids. To date, one can only be infected by H5N1 by direct contact and ingestion. Changing the virus through recombination with a type that can be spread via contact with aerosols appears a bit brazen, even if there is scientific merit in doing so.

        • GramusMEMBER

          Why do you think that? The lab is real, it is in Wuhan, and developing novel corona viruses like the one that has appeared ( the refs are from Nature not some random conspiracy site) I think the chances of something escaping a lab are probably as high as the chance of a random mutation emerging from a live animal market.

      • GunnamattaMEMBER

        Well that would explain the cities in lock down and the military doctors being worked into the equation.

        The issue is there would be a lot of difficulty in establishing whether the virus was something which had evolved in nature somewhere or whether it was something cooked up in a lab.

        I recall years ago chatting with a veterinary sanitation specialist (I was staying in the same motel as him and we went to the pub together) who I recall stating that one of the reasons disease outbreaks happened in China was because there were a lot of people living in close proximity to animals, meaning that there was more scope for disease in the animal world to cross species and mutate in a new setting. Presumably there are a lot of fewer now than there was then (late 1990s) but if something were to have been ‘designed’ (or experimented with – may one of the earlier flu strains has had a modification) then it may well be that nobody has any idea what may happen even if the current outbreak is simply a fairly normal flu strain (potentially a threat to kids, elderly or those with chronic conditions – but leaving most of the rest of us clogged up, runny nose and generally weak for a week or so).

        But if it were to be established that the flu was some sort of man made modification, then do you think the Chinese could be sued?

    • Jevons ghostMEMBER

      @Jacob

      There is another way. And that is the immediate and widespread introduction, under government mandate, of regenerative agricultural methods, for it has been calculated that at least 30% of greenhouse gas emissions in Australia result from animal husbandry and crop-growing activities. These emissions can be reduced significantly by farmers pursuing creek and floodplain repair – read natural sequence farming – together with the adoption of intensive cover cropping and cell grazing. Doing these things makes it possible for farmers to rehydrate the soil and to reduce or even cease the use of fertilisers, herbicides, pesticides and fungicides. Investing in a regenerative farming toolkit allows the farmer to achieve quite rapid repair of impoverished soils and to accelerate the incorporation of carbon from the atmosphere into the soil, with the good news being that It would require only a half percent increase in soil carbon on 2 percent of our agricultural land to sequester all of Australia’s CO2 emissions. Farmers need to provided with an incentive to get on board; resurrecting the Australian Soil Carbon Accreditation Scheme rejected by the Federal Government 10 years ago would be a fair way of ensuring that farmers were rewarded for their efforts sequestering carbon in their soil.

      • Know IdeaMEMBER

        Yep.

        I am presently working at this very thing. The main challenge outside the lack of rainfall is the competition provided by the kangaroo and deer.

        • Jevons ghostMEMBER

          Great to hear. I’ve had a bit to do with some of the more prominent regenerative farming practitioners over the years. Recently I read a book titled: “Dirt to Soil” by Gabe Brown, who farms in North Dakota and who has liaised with some of the better regenerative farmers in Australia. Gabes book is inspirational; one of the very best books on regenerative farming that I have come across, and I think that Australian farmers who are feeling a bit overwhelmed by things at present might get a bit of a gee up by having a read. Not so much to acquire a cookbook of farming recipes; more to see how he has learnt from his mistakes over the years and moved forward into profitability. Btw: Average yearly rainfall in North Dakota is 400 mm and like us they have their share of droughts.

      • DominicMEMBER

        “.. it has been calculated that at least 30% of greenhouse gas emissions in Australia result from animal husbandry and crop-growing activities.”

        That is nothing short of extraordinary. Especially when we’re exporting rice and cotton which is hugely water intensive. Just adds salt to the wound. The levels of idiocy in this country know no bounds.

        • Jevons ghostMEMBER

          Ref: Beyond Zero Emissions discussion paper 2014
          Land use: Agriculture and Forestry p42 ff

          (An extraordinarily detailed document and well worth a read)
          In fact it’s higher than that if you count forestry in. However, although the data is probably the best available, the authors of this section of the discussion paper imply that not much can be done about it. To that I call bs.

    • DominicMEMBER

      Fake Koala?

      In all the times I’ve seen the buggers I haven’t seen one high on crystal meth. They just sleep all day, boring sh*ts

  23. fisho

    https://fortune.com/longform/boeing-737-max-crisis-shareholder-first-culture/

    Makes me wonder: why can’t great Engineering companies just remain great Engineering companies?
    Is it all about maximizing the value of modern management remuneration methods (aka options). Surely there’s a world where great engineering companies have stock market valuation models that defy analysis from P/S or P/B or earnings and they’re priced high simply because they’re great engineering companies and the management of these companies is rewarded for not destroying a great engineering company.
    There was a time (and we’re only talking 20 years ago) when Boeing was a great engineering company. They were pioneers in the fields of quality engineering and high reliability design, Boeing didn’t need the FAA to double check their work (matter of fact it was just plain silly to even suggest that anyone at the FAA knew more about the real world side of high rel design or quality engineering) . In the past other high tech companies would try to contract with Boeing engineering to do some tricky development for them, because those guys were just that damn good. Boeing had good material science, good solid mechanical engineering knowledge, great Electrical engineers and a fantastic Failure analysis lab….and I’ve heard their Aeronautical Engineers were also OK.
    Boeing were the real deal, all makes me wonder: Is the world really a better place with this new financially successful Boeing?

    • Janet

      Yet even William Boeing, the company founder, eventually saw where The Future lay….
      “Boeing retired from the aircraft industry. He then spent the remainder of his life in property development….”

    • Djenka

      “why can’t great Engineering companies just remain great Engineering companies?”

      Public trading of shares makes that as an inevitable path. When more money is made betting than producing…

      • fisho

        Yeah maybe but does it have to be this way?
        There are hundreds of listed companies that are all about maximizing their financial position and maximizing their returns and maximizing their dividends, why measure a company that has other much much rarer qualities (like engineering excellence) with the same yard stick that you measure companies that are just about making money?
        In the art world one wouldn’t tell a sculptor that he was inferior to a painter and manipulate the market in such a manner that the sculptor found it necessary to start doing bad paintings just to make a living…that’d be stupid, but in a way that is precisely what we are doing when we strip a company like Boeing of its engineering excellence and tell them that they can still make things but manipulate the rewards in such a manner that making money is better paid than making things or that making second rate things (like 737 Max) is better paid than making excellent things like 777 or 747 both were/are masterful feats of engineering whereas the 737Max is nothing but a nasty brown stain on the otherwise fine name of both Boeing and the 737.

        • Djenka

          Calculated risk is what ate Böing.
          A product is released quick and cheap and if returns surpass profits it is withdrawn from sales. Like the usual fleaBay practice of “refund and keep it” if the item is sheety.
          Böing did not have timely answer to 32X Neo and chose the most wrong path conceivable.

          Max8 will be dubbed a Bumble Bee: no one knows how it flies as it is not airworthy.

          • fisho

            True absolutely tue but lets change the optics for one second
            IF Boeing marketed itself as a superior engineering company that would never dream of releasing a sub standard product, would there be investors interested in buying their stock at whatever multiple was necessary to obtain this unique thing?
            This is the insanity of comparing some junk bond trader or dollar store financials with the financials of a top shelf engineering company. From today’s financial perspective all 3 are worth some percentage of their NPV (net present value) with some discount applied for earnings volatility.
            It is stupid for an engineering company to let itself be compared by these metrics….absolute stupidity.
            Any Engineering company that is doing leading edge work has earnings volatility and unpredictability they come hand in hand. If you want engineering excellence than almost by definition you don’t care about either schedule or cost. As we used to say in product design (Cost, schedule and engineering excellence) form three orthogonal axis you need to pick how important each axis is to your particular project.
            Yet when we wrap it all up at the top level earnings lumpiness (schedule) and earnings linearity (cost) are both represented BUT where is Engineering excellence? Somewhere along the way it simply fell out of the stock valuation equation….and I think we’re all much poorer for this optimization.

          • Djenka

            “This is the insanity of comparing some junk bond trader or dollar store financials with the financials of a top shelf engineering company.”

            I wish I can see that as a major difference and not just shades.
            What you describe perhaps exists in closed national economies with no export input into GDP, so only partially in North Korea. Boeing is a strategic company and I would not be surprised to find that FAA did sweet FA to prevent them from releasing calculated risk product – to keep them winning the game that they were losing at half time. I’d dare to say Boeing received a nod from FAA to do what they had to to keep the bumble bee flying and maintain profits, indirectly GDP. Imagine that the last US airplane manufacturer went tits up and they started jet era as the absolute monopoly. Too many vectors affect the game, engineering importance was suppressed to a level of cost of business doing.

            Sadly, I believe in the same principle as you. Sadly because it is tilting at windmills.

          • SachaMEMBER

            Boeing is part of MIC. Will never go tits up. Maybe civilian arm downsized/phased out, that’s it.
            Apparently Boeing was allowed to do their own signing off for compliance and this in turn was accepted by FAA without question.

        • drsmithyMEMBER

          Yeah maybe but does it have to be this way?

          Within our current culture and the direction it is clearly continuing to evolve – where all that matters is what things cost – it is inevitable. Because the lives of typical punters are not attributed a great deal of value by most of the people in charge of the world today (and as democracy continues to be undermined, that situation will only get worse).

        • Jevons ghostMEMBER

          As they said of the doughty Beaufighter, 80 years ago…….”two mighty engines, hotly pursued by an aeroplane”

    • The Claw

      A great engineering company would produce greater dividends over the long term.
      But trashing it can goose the stock and earn one a cool 90 million dollars.
      Which is better?

      • fisho

        Absolutely. over the long term excellence will always be rewarded.
        But if you don’t really care about the long term than there’s an even better optimization that cashes in on perceived excellence when in reality you’re delivering a sub standard product.
        I can’t help but think that this is also the real story behind Holden’s decline.

  24. DavidMEMBER

    Now the Corona virus has made it to our shores I’m thinking what’s the worst place to be working? At the moment it’s the airport or Chinatown or any of the other suburbs in Sydney and Melbourne that the Chinese have taken over. By the time university goes back there might be a few worried lecturers around. Then again if it goes out of control it will be the hospitals in major cities. #racoon city
    https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/real-umbrella-corp-wuhan-ultra-biohazard-lab-was-studying-worlds-most-dangerous-pathogens

    • SachaMEMBER

      Serpentza is a good channel to watch if you want an insight into the Chinese psyche, culture and lifestyle.
      I believe he spends most his time in US now because there is more open hostility towards gweilo from civilians and government agencies due to (trade) war tensions.

  30. reusachtigeMEMBER

    I really do enjoy visiting the massage lounges in between relations parties but I’m wondering if either is a good idea at the moment. Home batting will get boring. Thoughts?

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Like any great vice, excessive, repetitive, over stimulation delivers diminishing returns.
      Give your old fella a rest and come to the Sackville.
      It’s a real sausage fess.
      60 to 80 people here and less than a dozen Sheilas!
      Sounds like where you need to be Brother.

        • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

          Ah,… Balmain may as well be Doonside or Mt Druitt eh?

          Where does a fancy Eastern suburbs boy drink these days Reusa?

    • ceeMEMBER

      The virus does not spread well in tropical humid environments. Trip to Vietnam, Thailand or Cambodia while it blows over?
      Otherwise make sure you get your massage in places that have a sauna.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        It’s was pretty fken humid in Sydney today.
        Took the Boy and 8 other Kids, all under 13, to Luna Park today for his 10th birthday.
        Had the missus and another dad helping out.
        It was 6 and a half long sweaty hours.
        Fun,…but I was happy to have the missus drop me off at darling st to go to the pub with me mate and his friends on the way home.
        Nice to be drinking beer in the AC

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            Yeah, despite growing up in Central QLD, the older I get the less I can handle both heat and humidity.

            Lived in Arizona for a couple of years, and while three months of 35-45 degrees (even at 2 in the morning) sounds crazy, the humidity was so low we’d think nothing of going cycling even at 40 – so long as you had enough liquids and kept moving it was fine.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            Scottsdale.

            We had been living in Zurich, but it was about a year after the GFC and my employer – US-based and with nearly all business in the US, but a few hundred people in Oz and Europe to have a follow-the-sun model – started pulling many jobs back to the USA. I got a “your job is moving, you can come with it if you want” ultimatum and while I’d never had any urge to live in the states at the time, my attitude was if it’s just going to fall in my lap (all relocation costs covered + first six months accommodation) I’ll give it a go.

            The company headquarters (new, at the time, after a new CEO moved it so it was closer to his home) was in Scottsdale so we found somewhere nearby (and had half a dozen other Aussie mates who had been put in a similar situation all living in the same area).

            Was a great couple of years. Living was dirt cheap and I was on decent ($100k+) money with basically no commitments or debt. Plus I got a solid severance package when the company got taken over ~18 months later. Often regret not staying, but we would not have been able to raise our kids in the situation we have now with two sets of grandparents + aunties and uncles within a ~10 minute drive (then again if we’d stayed, we might not have had kids).

            Had a very difficult decision to make about 2 years ago when our number came up in the Green Card Lottery, but ultimately let it go because we would have had to move within 24 months and then live in the US pretty much permanently for at least the subsequent 5 years to be eligible for citizenship.

            I keep entering the GCL every year in case it comes up again, because despite it problems, the opportunities in the US for my kids are vastly greater than they will be in Australia for at least the next 10-20 years I reckon. If we jag it again when they’re hitting double digits, it’ll be an even harder decision than it was the first time… That said, the E3 visa means getting there even without that is relatively easy.

            Dunno if I could live in Scottsdale/Phoenix again with a clear conscience. Still have a bunch of mates there, but the whole place is a poster child of catstrophic environmental unsustainability.

          • fisho

            I used to travel to Tucson and Huston regularly and I much preferred Tucson at 110F over Huston at say 95F
            but I guess it all comes down to I just hate Huston Tx in the summer

          • doctorX

            AZ is nice
            when a person drives from New Mexico to AZ can quickly notice how the desert suddenly becomes nice, beautiful, orange/pinkish …
            I remember spending some time in AZ in 2005, staying with friends in Scottsdale, summer 120F but not as bad as Miami or Houston 100F.
            They lived in a house (one of those large new sinle level haciendas 400-500sqm on 1/2 acre with bigger WIRs than a “generous size bedroom” in Sydney, 4 car garage, a giant pool and big cacti) that was just passing $1m mark (they paid $450k in 2000) and they were saying how it’s going to hit $2m by 2010. Even back than I was thinking how such a house in a nice suburb in Sydney would be well over a million (that was after 2003 house boom in Sydney). Now such a house in an equivalent suburb of Sydney would be probably $4-5m (no waterviews).
            in 2010 the house was probably 500k and even now is probably below $1m despite strong bubble recovery in Phoenix

    • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

      Dude those sheilas would be getting more contaminated from you ya super spreader you 😆

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Does it happen to mention anywhere just where they managed to source these beauties from?

      Asking for a whole lot of friends.

      • GavinMEMBER

        No doubt with the supplies at Bunnings you could probably make 1. We could ask them for a DIY course on it. Then take to the streets but only after getting a couple of sangas first (not via drone) and with onion under not over. Can’t be nothing more Strayan than a mob lynching + Bunnings sausage, we will be home in time for the Footy

          • haroldusMEMBER

            Mate, onions over just fall off.

            Bun.
            Sauce.
            Onions.
            Sauce.
            Vege sausage.
            Sauce.
            Onions.
            Season to taste.
            Put sauce on top bun.
            Top bun on.
            Extend neck away from shirt.
            Bon appetit!

  33. footsore

    A UK car site drove six electric cars from full to flat to see their real world distance.
    https://youtu.be/ZH7V2tU3iFc

    Mercedes : 194 miles = 312km
    Audi : 206 miles = 331km
    Nissan : 208 miles = 334km
    Jaguar : 223 miles = 358km
    Kia : 255 miles = 410km
    Tesla : 270 miles = 434km

      • Djenka

        Too early for Asians.
        If you look at history books, not much tech was invented but sheetload was made less expensive and better quality.
        When inventors have mastered the field, Asians will make it accessible to you, me and the next guy. Also more reliable (but arguably boring).

        My take is that pure ev will never surpass commuter role or virtue/wealth signalling.

          • Djenka

            Indeed and particularly when the only place one saves the planet is a car but maintains a mansion with 10s of kW’s of waste energy every hour.
            Average Billy Bob driving 7L senseless ute living in a caravan park produces less CO2 than the leanest Tesla virtue signaller.

            Otoh mob riding an ev bus…or mob that spend Tesla worth money to heat insulate their home and never need an AC or heater for the next 100 lives of an average ev car…. they are less important
            So yeah, ev will save the planet in a jiffy.

        • drsmithyMEMBER

          The “commuter role” probably covers somewhere between 50% and 75% of personal vehicles in the country.

          The “average” driver covers about 40km/day.

          • Djenka

            And in that role, pure EV will thrive no matter what.
            If 40km requires say 10kWh and this can be achieved from personal solar on most days, the role is fulfilled.
            50-75% of commuter cars produce what percentage of global CO2 and pollutants?
            How much CO2 can be saved for the cost of one cheapest personal ev if money is spend on energy efficient home or simple insulation?
            (Hint: I spend less energy on heating a 180sqm free standing home at typical -10°C winter in europe than heating my sydney apartment with 2 external walls)

          • doctorX

            Djenka … excellent point
            Australians waste so much energy …
            despite having a climate where very little cooling and heating is needed our homes waste so much energy – double that of US or Europe. As you said, I remember using much less energy to heat my townhouse in NYC than one in Sydney (and the Sydney one is much newer).
            My friend from Germany wanted to import triple glazed argon uPVC windows from Germany for his house in Sydney but he was told that those German windows don’t meet Australians standards. LOL

            He wanted to test the market and eventually turn it into a business because good quality windows are so much cheaper there
            1m wide triple glazed uPVC window costs 200 euros, here they are few times more

          • fisho

            @DocX Yeah I tried to do the same myself wrt importing German windows, only I was going to get them direct from the Chinese manufacturer. Trouble was they weren’t up to stringent Aussie standards…lol
            I even went one step further and tried to see if I could get them certified as Australian standards compliant, that’s when I learned to hate SAI-Global. What a F’ing joke that company is, absolute F’ing disgrace that Australian standards are now nothing but a monopolistic tool for delivering huge profits to a private company for not doing the job they’ve been tasked with. ….but don’t get me started on that rant

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            My friend from Germany wanted to import triple glazed argon uPVC windows from Germany for his house in Sydney but he was told that those German windows don’t meet Australians standards. LOL

            Yeah. We would have loved to have been able to get one of these here:

            https://www.huf-haus.com/en-uk/

          • Djenka

            @ doc x and Fisho

            I have a mate whom imported these from Europe and put them in a home he built himself.
            Triple glazing and 7 chambered stock is what I used for northern (cold) side, double glazing and 3-5 chambered would do magic for all of Aus.
            But the catch is in 20cm of earth wool wraparound. I had to change to PID thermostat as very low heat losses made temp swings several degrees with each heat cycle (central heating using pellets).
            In total about $30k for earthwool wrap and double/triple glazed windows.

        • DominicMEMBER

          My hope was that concerns for both environment and obesity would lead to much greater bicycle adoption, but alas …

          Clearly, those who are talking the talk are nor necessarily walking the walk. Quelle surprise, I guess.

    • doctorX

      I remember discussions about battery replacement costs, who is going to pay $5k or $20k to replace the batter on the car after 1000 full cycle recharges …
      Now it became obvious … the battery will outlast all of these cars, even if they use cheep 1000 recharge cycles batteries they will last over 300k km, that’s more than 95% of petrol cars go before they die

      • GavinMEMBER

        Yeah there was a study that suggested Tesla batteries after 20 years will only drop a small amount of charge capacity. Say to 80% of their new status. After 20 years a lot of cars are not on the road anymore. Most people don’t keep their cars for 20 years now. But my guess is that in 20 years time the battery packs and pricing may drop significantly and the Aftermarket may have better replacement batteries (longer range, faster charge and lighter/smaller?) that it won’t be so bad to pick up a used 1 and swap out the batteries and keep older models going.

        • Djenka

          Not quite the case Gavin

          300t kms is nothing for most of the cars made in the last 10yrs. There is another factor which is often avoided and that is the age and appearance. If only few want to drive 10 yo cars now, mostly due to appearance, weathering and particularly Sun damage (in aistralia) whom will want to put $5k (if $5k) worth of batteries in a beaten up 10 or 15 yo Tesla to get only a 10 or 15 to Tesla with better range.
          Batts we have now have near peaked the performance and unless another chemistry comes up, no more seismic improvements are left.
          All I am saying is that the rosy future for current batteries is mostly running on hopium.

          One major benefit of ev is that they perform better on shorqt trips than ice as they need not warming up. Otoh, electrodiesel locomotives can do millions of km simply because they are never turned of, not even for service.

        • drsmithyMEMBER

          But my guess is that in 20 years time the battery packs and pricing may drop significantly and the Aftermarket may have better replacement batteries (longer range, faster charge and lighter/smaller?) that it won’t be so bad to pick up a used 1 and swap out the batteries and keep older models going.

          I think the point is there’ll be no real need to. Even with only a 150km range an EV will do fine for most use cases.

          More likely scenario is that ~10-15 year old EVs will be scrapped so that their batteries can be repurposed for something else.

  35. Rorke's DriftMEMBER

    Linked article says ATO investigating Australians who appear to have laundered money overseas through an un-named Central American bank in a world-wide evasion scheme recently uncovered. With the weakess laundering protections in the world and the govt continually deferring recommended legislation, I just assumed that money-laundering was acceptable in Australia.
    I guess the problem is that they’ve laundered through an overseas bank instead of one of our own.

    • Wing Nut

      Way safer to launder money through Australian property, no one ever investigates that. Safe as houses.

      • Freddy

        Laws don’t apply to money coming into the country. They only apply to money going out of the country.

        • DominicMEMBER

          Yep, you don’t want your currency leaving the country, especially when you’ve been debauching it at a colossal rate. Like China, for example. And you definitely want to control how much gold leaves.

  38. skippy

    LMMAO at the Sky is falling mob over a virus …. you would think its the Spanish flu post WWI …

    What happen to the whole creative destruction economic meme – ????? – oh … its only if it effects others … chortle …

  39. T

    holy moly: https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/296902/obama-passed-the-buck-trump-refused-to-play

    The JCPOA was the instrument Obama used to secure the administration’s ultimate goal—realigning U.S. interests with those of Iran. For the U.S. to be able to minimize its footprint in the Middle East, the Obama White House needed a proxy force—much like the Iranians use proxies to advance their interests. Soleimani managed Iranian proxies and Obama, who praised the late commander, believed he was capable of stabilizing the region on behalf of America. …

    If this all seems unbelievable, it’s because it is—and also because you’re probably still imagining that Obama’s goal was to prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. But once you understand the real purpose, these moves become much clearer. To wit: Why did Obama give the regime enough uranium to make 10 nuclear bombs? To pressure the incoming Trump administration to stick with the nuclear deal. If Trump chose to leave the JCPOA, he’d have to deal with the fact that with 130 tons of uranium already on hand Iran had an easier path to the bomb. In effect, the last president handed the Iranians a loaded gun to be pointed at his successor.

    • Djenka

      Move away… nothing here to see… auctions cleared as intended and that is all there is to be seen…

    • Counterfiat

      1980’s joke : NORAD CONFIRMS 1,500 INBOUND SOVIET ICBMS TO HIT THE US IN 30 MINUTES.

      Wall Street Trader: Quick guys, we have 29 minutes to buy gold and make our month!!!

    • 2019 Ghost

      Maybe this newfound patriotism could lead to immigration cuts… oh, who am I kidding. The patriotism is to replace cutting immigration.

      • Freddy

        Labor seem quite serious about this Democracy and Liberty thing. Maybe they will cut ties with vested interests, stop telling us how to think and feel, rollback metadata laws, reject the cash ban bill, etc.

        • DominicMEMBER

          The Left-wing finally realising that they actually have little more than an authoritarian manifesto?

          Lolololololol,

          The manifesto is simple: ‘improving’ the world by force.

          These idiots have no other objective than bending the populace to its will ensuring they ‘like it’.

          What’s that sound I hear? Ah, sheep ….

    • Rich4MEMBER

      Exactly the inane feel good rubbish we’d expect from one of the worst politicians in Australia.

      What’s the point of it?

    • haroldusMEMBER

      From this time forward, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose rights and liberties I respect, and whose laws I will uphold and obey.

      *”Unless my religion dictates otherwise, and to the extent I benefit from the relationship”.

    • JimsCB

      I liked it mainly because I find the twitter left annoying and hope it annoys them that she isn’t getting “ratioed” so hard.

    • bolstroodMEMBER

      Plibersek is asking kids to swear to uphold Australia, while she and her fellow parliamentarians swear to something else entiretly

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/02/swearing-in-australian-parliament-explained
      Oath

      I, A.B., do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Victoria, Her heirs and successors according to law. So Help Me God!

      Affirmation

      Advertisement

      I, A.B., do solemnly and sincerely affirm and declare that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Victoria, Her heirs and successors according to law.

      NOTE – The name of the King or Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland for the time being is to be substituted from time to time.

  43. DavidMEMBER

    Well even if it doesn’t turn into a zombie apocalypse, it does look like it is spreading fast. WHO figures show SARS made it to 29 countries from November 2002 through July 2003, with 8096 cases and 774 deaths. The Wuhan corona virus is in 11 countries in 4 weeks with 1350+ confirmed cases and 41 deaths & most people have only just heard about it in the last week.
    But if you compare it to the H1N1 influenza in 2009 which killed hundreds of thousands it’s not too bad, yet.

      • JimsCB

        I wish more protests where that efficient: She didn’t put anyone out while getting her point across and the picture will find its way to a media snowflake willing to write an article about how terrible she is, likely with the picture attached, giving her even more coverage.

  46. DivyaMEMBER

    OK, I am absolutely worried about this coronavirus. Why did we wait till the Chinese govt shut the cities down to stop accepting flights from these places?? I dont say this often or EVER,, but good on Chinese govt to shut these cities down (I think ??) But then, at the same time, it was over a month after the first reported case and also, for them to shut cities down, must be worse than they are letting on.
    Totally believe the theory that their labs made this up. The virus came from a seafood market and mutated to the transmitted between humans just while there is a lab in the same city that developed something exactly of that description?? Yeah SURE.

    • Johnson Lee

      Meh, young people will survive, the elderly will die. More housing and pension money for the rest of us. A widespread Coronavirus could envigorate our societies by killing off the dead weight.

      Even better if it spreads to India and Africa it will solve the climate crisis and the migration crisis.

    • The Claw

      If you are worried about the coronavirus, wait until the corollavirus strikes. To say nothing of the cressidavirus.

    • GramusMEMBER

      Here you go. Something to put your mind at rest.
      Have you bought your masks yet?

      From a harvard epidemiologist
      https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1220919589623803905?s=20
      the new coronavirus is a 3.8!!! How bad is that reproductive R0 value? It is thermonuclear pandemic level bad a basic reproductive number for this 2019-nCoV outbreak is higher compared to other emergent coronaviruses, suggesting that containment or control of this pathogen may be substantially more difficult.”!!!!

      “We estimate the basic reproduction number of the infection (R_0) to be 3.8 (95% confidence interval, 3.6-4.0), indicating that 72-75% of transmissions must be prevented by control measures for infections to stop increasing.”
      We estimate that only 5.1% (95%CI, 4.8-5.5) of infections in Wuhan are identified, and by 21 January a total of 11,341 people (prediction interval, 9,217-14,245) had been infected in Wuhan since the start of the year. Should the epidemic continue unabated in Wuhan we predict the epidemic in Wuhan will be substantially larger by 4 February (191,529 infections; prediction interval, 132,751-273,649), infection will be established in other Chinese cities, and importations to other countries will be more frequent.

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      Yes now is the time to panic and start preparing by taking things into your own hands! Guns. Ammo. Supplies. Women.

    • Frostilicus

      Oh, and by the way, here’s a genome we’ve sequenced earlier… have at it! Oh, and me so solly!

  48. haroldusMEMBER

    We’re staying here (https://www.bmtp.com.au/katoomba-falls.html) at an unpowered site.

    We’re really roughing it. No power.

    My job this evening is to recharge the devices and battery packs in the amenity room. I’m sitting in the dark charging the laptop into the phone and ipad, and the other socket is charging the cygnet power block.

    I’m happy to do it, because otherwise I’d have to go to sleep at 9.

    Also I bought a hat, which I may use on stage, a’la Jimi and Stevie Ray.

  49. DavidMEMBER

    4 cases of the Corona virus in Aus already vs 6 for the entire SARS epidemic. Gotta love the exponential Chinamen travel endorsed by our fearless leaders.

    • TrooDohMEMBER

      How good is Australia?

      China is quarantining entire cities. Straya’s response? Just do nothing and allow potentially infected people from the virus epicentre to stream through our airports.

      • Frostilicus

        Typical Chinese case: cheap-cheap! Then you find out they’re 12 in a case, instead of 24…

  50. DavidMEMBER

    Well the Australian government can’t take a leadership role and kill the golden goose now can they.

  51. Chase

    I’ve started telling people to speak English, who are loudly talking in a foreign language and don’t seem to be tourists. Start letting them know the locals aren’t happy. Make them feel uncomfortable instead of the locals feeling uncomfortable and like a stranger in their home country.

    • Arrow2MEMBER

      Wtf. I can speak two languages and one of them is English (which is also my native language).

      Do I have to cease communicating with my friends who speak the other one, just because a complete stranger like you might be listening?

      Go learn another language, it’s a huge competitive advantage if you pick a useful one.

      Do let me know the rules on aboriginal languages, too, mkay?

      • Chase

        In public, if you are going to speak a non-English language, then don’t be loudly speaking another language. It’s alienating to the locals. Social research has proven this.

        How does it make you feel if you’re in public and someone speaks another language, that isn’t English and you don’t understand?

        Language should unite and not divide us.

        If you’re mates are living here, and know English, why aren’t you speaking English then?

        Have some consideration for other people.

        • Arrow2MEMBER

          Yeah nah. Humanity speaks a lot of languages.

          Oh and in case you’re wondering, I don’t support rampant migration – just a moderate amount, about a quarter of the current rate – and I agree people should try to learn English once they arrive. But there’s no need to be a d!ckhead about it to people. You’re not going to fix overpopulation by trying to scare them off one by one.

          To be honest I’ve made it a pretty major rule in life to not worry about what random strangers might think of me. Sad cvnts who do are the types that go into debt to buy a Porsche Cayenne just so because their fck wit neighbours did. Not going to stop talking how I like just because someone else’s feelings might get all hurt. I do try to remember not to swear at preschool pickup though.

          • Chase

            In answer to your original question, if speaking in Australia, in public, particularly loudly, best to speak the official language of Australia, which is English.

            And for the record, I didn’t yell at the person. I wasn’t aggressive. I just told them something they should already be mindful of.

            But let’s just be meek and let Australian society get trashed and wonder why people don’t give a damn about anybody else.

            If I’m being obnoxious in some other person’s country, I can’t be surprised to be called out on it.

            Create the world you want to live in.

          • Arrow2MEMBER

            If you want to fix excessive migration, trying to convince individual existing migrants not to be foreign is going to be hugely ineffective as a strategy.

            Actually it’s counterproductive, it just reinforces the incorrect view that reasonable people worried about excessive migration are all foreigner-hating racialists.

          • Djenka

            …official language of Australia, which is English. > Um, nope, it is not.

            It’s alienating to the locals. > only to cognitively challenged

            Social research has proven this. > Yeah… right….

            Anencephaly.

    • footsore

      Many a sharehouse ago I lived with an Australian chap whose parents were Chinese. He was born and raised in outer Melbourne and sounded more Ocker than I do. One night we were having a beer down at the local and he told me he can’t like old white people. Almost all of our friends were white and his girlfriend was white so I asked him why. He said that he was out having lunch with his mum when he was young. It was a food court in suburban Melbourne and it would have been the early or mid 80s. A normal looking old white lady walks over, spits in his mum’s face and tells them to go home. He did well at school and uni and is doing well now. Yet seeing someone act out so cruelly for no reason at all has left a scar that need not be there. Your little act of bravado may make you feel better but it doesn’t help anyone else in the long term. Unless they are the Minister for immigration they are not breaking any laws. Go be a tough guy to Dutton. Life’s hard enough for most people without being yelled at by random folk when going about your day, especially when you’re not doing anything wrong or illegal.

      • Chase

        It’s not that I said ‘Speak English, you chinky-chink’ or anything like that.

        Is it really such a radical notion that people living in Australia shouldn’t be speaking foreign languages loudly in public?

        Let’s just let people just do whatever they want in public. Don’t tell someone off for playing music loudly on a train. Don’t tell them to use headphones. Don’t give a death stare to someone talking loudly on a bus. Don’t ask someone to move their bag to free up a seat. ‘Cause you know, life’s hard enough!

        You soft touches are in part the cause for the cultural decline we are experiencing.

        We are becoming a joke to the rest of the world and being walked over.

        But mustn’t hurt these poor people, these poor little foreign people that you need to stand up for because they lack agency.

        • Mining BoganMEMBER

          I told a bloke off yesterday for playing his videos at full volume on the train. Worse was he’d play ten seconds then move on to the next one.

          He was good about it though. Gave a little head wobble and moved to the next carriage to annoy people there. The carriage I was in gave me a mixture of good work nods and cat bums faces. Nobody else said a word though. Seems society is all too hard.

          Don’t know about the language issue though. I know I’ve been loudly english in many a foreign country.

          • Qualitative Easing

            Had a vibrant do the loud speaker phone call thing 8 inches from my face on the train on Thursday. Got out my phone, cranked volume to high, held it out at the boundary of my personal space** and played this beauty titled ‘The most annoying sounds all in one 10 HOURS’

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDJGJ-_YBfA

            Vibrant call ended 1 min later, nary a comment from said vibrant.

            **Pre mass migration / vibrancy era boundaries were used to define personal space

      • Qualitative Easing

        @footsore: and the death stares I get from the elderly Indians who crowd the footpaths? Where exactly do they fit in – in your grand scheme of “life’s hard enough …”. Or doesn’t it apply to white males?

        • footsore

          I do same thing with all path hoggers, I just say excuse me and pass on through. It’s generally worked for me. There’ll always be idiots. The funny thing is that they often turn into the grumpy old men and women who complain about kids of today and all them outsiders. As Mr Byrne said, “Same as it ever was.”

    • fisho

      Maybe you should try living in another country where you don’t really speak the local language (for at least a year) and see if you still feel the same way about placing restrictions on what language is used in public spaces.

    • GavinMEMBER

      If you lived in Europe for a while you’d hear all sorts of languages being spoken by people. It’s just normal there to hear a foreign language being spoken loudly on the street. Thing about Europe is so many cultures and countries close by, so a lot of visitors stream through but it didn’t overtake the local culture

      What we have is a different problem wealthy individuals buying up large parts of Sydney / Melbourne and have no interest in preserving local heritage and or understanding Australian history. Like a lot of rich snobs from anywhere really, they think the world is theirs for the taking.

      The problem is not so much the migrants themselves, but teh scale of migration and the BS “skilled” migration program. Which is clearly suppressing wages and lowering the qualify of life for everyone else.

      We must continue to petition government for change. Write to your local MP and vote for parties with your values in mind. It’s all you can do. Existing migrants may even be on your side.

      • SachaMEMBER

        ‘…but it didn’t overtake the local culture.’
        Must have been a while since last time you visited and you have only been to the areas that are still nice.
        ’The problem is not so much the migrants themselves…’
        Yes it is. If I had to chose I’d rather have wealthy individuals come here than the low life scum bottom of the barrel sorts that we seem to attract.

        Government? Bwahahahah! Soon the gimmegrants will have their own parties, look at Canada.
        Bye bye Straya, was nice knowing you.

  52. Arthur Schopenhauer

    Official communications around the coronavirus have a Chernobyl feel about them. Consistently underplaying the threat, in contrast to the action on the ground.
    What a time to have the current set of deadsh-ts in government.

    • happy valleyMEMBER

      They’re just applying their textbook “we will not comment on operational matters” mantra. They will decide what the great unwashed need to know and when. Anyway, remember all of this is all Labor’s fault.

    • Djenka

      Official communications around the coronavirus have a Chernobyl feel about them. Consistently underplaying the threat, in contrast to the action on the ground.

      I am not sure what is your expectation of comms in case of pandemic.
      One thing for sure is that *every* pandemic management authority (a .gov) will play down and suppress anything that leads to mass panic.

      Imagine a scenario where a pilot announces:
      Ladies and gentlemen, one engine has caught fire and chances of survival are 66.6%, particularly to those sitting at the starboard side. Please do not panic, we are doing the best we can and stewardesses are fixing the engine as we speak.

    • SweeperMEMBER

      The problem is the government knows they can get away with being useless thanks to journalism.
      The numbers also don’t add up. 4 confirmed cases in Australia and 1363 in China. The probability that the 4 people in Australia all came in contact with those infected in Wuhan in a population of 13mil something, if there are only 1363 seems unlikely. If the international numbers are accurate there has to be more cases in China you would think.

    • fisho

      Yep, like I said the other day, There’s no doubt in my mind that Chinese officials will do everything in their power to contain the spread of this virus (although it looks like they’re also doing too little too late). The question is will other countries be up for the task of containing the spread of the virus within their borders.
      Will average Aussies (especially those who feel well) accept that they will be locked up for at least 2 weeks because they might have come into contact with someone infected with this virus. This sort of quarantine restriction is unheard of in Australia, doctors might recommend quarantining a whole plane load of people but will Police and Politicians follow the doctors recommendations or bend under pressure.
      Everyone understands which outcome serves the “greater good” but are Aussies up for this sort of personal sacrifice of time and freedom for the societal “greater good”?
      China has proven that they can and indeed have quarantined an entire city, we may laugh at them for being ineffective but so far as I know they’re the only country that has ever even tried to quarantine such a large population.

  55. skippy

    For all those who are sick of the current world (dis)order, full of endless violence, instability, and chaos:
    https://off-guardian.org/2020/01/24/putin-calls-for-a-new-system-guided-by-the-un-charter-but-is-it-possible/

    “FDR’s 1944 vision, as Putin is well aware, was based not on “world government”, but rather upon the concept of a community of sovereign nations collaborating on vast development and infrastructure projects which were intended to be the effect of an “internationalization” of the New Deal that transformed America in the years following the Great Depression.

    The closest approximation to this spirit in practice in our modern age is found in China’s Belt and Road Initiative.

    Thousands of Asian, African and South American engineers and statesmen were invited to visit the USA during the 1930s and early 1940s to study the Tennessee Valley Authority and other great New Deal water, agriculture and energy projects in order to bring those ideas back to their countries as a driver to break out of the shackles of colonialism both politically, culturally and economically.

    In opposition to FDR, Churchill the unrepentant racist was okay with offering political independence, but never the cultural or economic means to achieve it.

    Although the world devolved into an Anglo-American alliance with FDR’s death in 1945, the other Bretton Woods Institutions which were meant to provide international productive credit to those large scale infrastructure projects to end colonialism were taken over by FDR’s enemies who purged the IMF and World Bank of all loyalists to FDR’s international New Deal vision throughout the years of the red scare.”

    So much of this history has been lost in the fog of (cold) war…

    Someone remind me what malefactors have been pushing the replacement agenda – all this time – and how that worked out ….

  56. reusachtigeMEMBER

    We really have stuffed up on quarantining people flying in from China. The government now needs to urgently declare a state of emergency and put all people who like like they are from a Chinamen type race into quarantine camps to save the rest of us from certain death!

  58. ZuluMEMBER

    “The researchers analysed data from 41 patients with confirmed infections who had showed an onset of symptoms up to January 2. Six of those patients died, putting the fatality rate of the group at 15 per cent.”

    15% death rate!!! Though hopefully it has mutated to only be 2% inline with more recent figures … Or is it a cover up?

    Also first case not at seafood market
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3047646/no-link-seafood-market-first-case-china-coronavirus-chinese

      • TailorTrashMEMBER

        Can’t wait for Gotti’s next “yarning” session with Harry ………….better turn the spruke switch hard to those innocent young local FHB…….
        .

          • TailorTrashMEMBER

            If one of Harry’s much loved Chinese customers who flew in bought one of his sh1tboxes and flew out ( as he likes to relate with immense satisfaction ) and left him a little surprise …….that would be a nice ending to his story …..

    • 2019 Ghost

      Our market-worshipping bench warmers (only there so that no one who’ll actually do anything can take power) are a lot less willing to protect human life than the ruthless Communists.

    • Popcod

      Had a friend living in China visit for a coupleof days this week. She says that the gov is very aware that they are on the nose with a lot of the rest of the world and they want to make sure that situation doesn’t get worse atm as the economy there is very fragile. The people might not understand that but their gov does. She says if you know what to look for the signs are clear.

      • matthewMEMBER

        Imagine the damage this is doing to their economy.Their leader is using the word grave possibly to exert greater control but more likely because it is

    • Wing Nut

      An inept response from the Prime Minister and a Home Affairs Minister who has completely disappeared. Haven’t we been here before?

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      I’m betting right now Scummo is ensuring that every isolation ward has a mobile lender and a Ray White representative. Also possibly some Dog-botherer speaking gibberish…although that could easily be one of the first two mentioned.

    • Wing Nut

      Along with Campbell Newman and Amanda Vanstone not necessarily corruption but such an award for a couple of fvck useless politicians is appalling. Totally devalues Australia Day honours and awards. Thankfully there were a few extremely well deserving recipients that saved the day.

  61. Freddy

    As luck would have it, Chris Martenson has a relevant PHD in neuro whatever:
    – Coronavirus has an R0 of at least 2.5 (highly contagious). Highly likely will become a global pandemic.
    – doctors wearing masks have contracted through their eyes
    – mortality rates could be closer to 10%. Makes the point that 3% mortality rate probably understated, and that there won’t be enough ICU beds if this thing really spreads

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_o624hesB4

  62. steveMEMBER

    Mortality always looks low at the start and then it increases. It’s just how the stats work early on.

    This is because there is a delay between getting sick (and becoming a new case) and becoming sick enough to die. So the increased deaths the last few days reflect the smaller number who were sick a week earlier.

    My guess is the mortality rate will increase as some of the newer cases become sicker.

    I also suspect things on the ground are a worse that we are hearing, based on the measures the Chinese have implemented.

    For years we knew it was a matter of time before a global pandemic. After a few false alarms, this may be it.

    • Arrow2MEMBER

      One counterpoint to that is that sometimes the mortality rate falls because the early non-serious cases are often not reported at all, and only the serious cases and deaths get noticed.

      Once efforts to identify and control it ramp up, we often the. Discover heaps of non-serious and mild cases and discover it’s not actually that deadly. I mean, still not a good thing to catch. But not so deadly as first feared. Fingers crossed anyway.

      • steveMEMBER

        That can happen, yes.

        But would they lock down their cities for increased numbers of mildly unwell people due to increased testing?

        • Arrow2MEMBER

          Different issue. That’s about quarantining the virus. Trying to stop its spread (and probably failing).

          They are going full on but that doesn’t mean the mortality rate is necessarily high. Total deaths can still be high even if mortality rate is low, because we are talking a country of over a billion people. Even if the mortality rate is 0.1% then that’s potentially a million deaths in China alone.

  64. Rich4MEMBER

    “In the wake of its devastating 2019 election loss, the Labor Party is prioritising engagement with migrant communities”

    Unless we (new Australians, to 8th generation, to indigenous) destroy the Labor party, they’re going to destroy us.

    We need new parties to oppose LNP’s immigration policies.

  65. Mining BoganMEMBER

    Where’s Poppy?

    I was down at Rosebud this morning for their annual Straya Day fun run. Good day out with a little fairground atmosphere afterwards. Was enjoying myself until the little ceremony and prizes started. I’m a tad concerned about some of the language used. Some of it could easily have been taken as white nationalism…but when one considers the crowd was very whitebread so I’m thinking nah, they’re just playing to their audience. But then the token semi-famous person starts banging on about Queen Liz Two being the only constant in his lifetime. I’m thinking WTF? Talking about singing God Save The Queen every morning at school. The crowd was lapping it up. My cynical mind took me straight to the Tanya Plibersek brainfart yesterday, with a pledge of allegiance or some such rot. The locals who had been sitting around forever waiting for the flag-raising etc were very appreciative. The runners listening to semi-famous person banging on about Liz and then his dad all took off.

    Is this the norm down there Poppy? Is this who Tanya is trying to reach? Looking at them I don’t reckon there’s too many Labor voters amongst them.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Maybe “Whitey” is just having a predictable response to a media and academia identity politics narrative that makes Sh!tbags of ALL White people due to British imperialism and a concocted “White Patriarchy”.

      These people at the invasion day rallies, protesting my ancestors arrival in my Country can FK OFF

      My Irish convict ancestors hated the British just as much as any Indigenous Australian did.
      Why are they called invaders?
      Are African American slaves just as responsible for Native American dispossession?
      If not why?
      The colour of their skin?
      All Sounds like racist Shyte to me directed right at my kids.
      Just the kind of thing that will have people closing ranks around race and Nationalistic identity.
      And its all being driven by these virtue signalling #FakeLeftists from the Privileged inner cities.
      Cvnts the lot of them.

      • Djenka

        My Irish convict ancestors hated the British just as much as any Indigenous Australian did.
        Why are they called invaders?
        Are African American slaves just as responsible for Native American dispossession?

        Do African slaves celebrate the day the first ship brought them to the new colony, or don’t they?

        Emotions always blur the view.

        • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

          “many African-Americans have been celebrating Thanksgiving away from the church with family and friends. For such people, the Day is to celebrate their journey of living in America and to turn those struggles into something positive”

          https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://face2faceafrica.com/article/why-african-americans-are-still-holding-on-to-thanksgiving&ved=2ahUKEwj9-J-n-6DnAhVkIbcAHcUwAzgQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2YelyAHOM0tvUo4Cf5se95&cshid=1580032034674

          Doing a quick Google search of “African American celebration of Thanksgiving” it’s interesting to see the overwhelming majority of “Woke articles” basically telling American “Black people” they are idiots for embracing this holiday as their own, like they have been for centuries.

          It’s seem the postmodernists are happy for POC to self identify with anything they like just as long as “They” stay in their own lane.

          “White People” are not collectively responsible for the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries institutions of slavery.
          A small minority of the population, Aristocrats, Plutocrats and capitalist are the only ones responsible for its continuation AND the only ones who benefited from it.
          Working class whites were enormously disadvantaged by its existence.
          But yeah ALL white people.
          Racist Shyte.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            The “racist” narrative is used simply to scold the working class for the injustices, both financially and socially, that are imposed on them. Financially by being forced to both compete for scarce wages and endure the demand induced cost of living pressures e.g. housing. Socially in being forced to live cheek by jowl with people whose cultural values are often in conflict with their own, and whose interest in Australia is less in becoming Australian than the naked self interest in simply coming here to grab a piece of what we’ve already built.

            But is it just Australian workers who are racist?

            In Singapore, crazy high immigration rates have “permanently depressed the wages of all those at the bottom.” and is leading to rising political tensions too.

            “I think the social compact is fraying.The PAP’s capability to ensure upward social mobility as long as you work hard and get an education, that ability has been seriously eroded.”…

            In October, an Indian-born Singaporean citizen, Ramesh Erramalli, was videoed verbally abusing a security guard at his upscale condo block. Stories of foreigners behaving badly are red meat for Singapore’s tabloids, but this clip, in which Erramalli is heard to shout: “I bought your f—— property for S$1.5 million, you know?” went viral.

            Erramalli’s salary, address and phone number were circulated online. A petition was started urging his employer, the investment bank JPMorgan Chase, to fire him, as he became an avatar for Singaporeans’ worst view of immigrants — entitled, overpaid, unwilling to integrate. A few days later, several hundred people gathered in Hong Lim Park, the country’s only designated protest spot, to demonstrate against the government’s labor policy. It was hardly a mass protest, but in a country that tightly regulates public shows of dissent, it was significant.
            {Stewie: Seems like Indians are as charming and selfless immigrants where ever they venture in the world]

            https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Cover-Story/Is-Singapore-s-perfect-economy-coming-apart

            Who could have predicted any of it?

    • Janet

      The young lady eating a bat looks suspicious?
      I mean, wouldn’t you tuck into the body first, rather than just nibble on a wing?

      • Djenka

        The ortolan is served in French cuisine, typically cooked and eaten whole. Traditionally diners cover their heads with their napkin, or a towel while eating the delicacy.
        ♤♡◇♧
        For centuries, a rite of passage for French gourmets was the eating of the Ortolan. These tiny birds—captured alive, force-fed, then drowned in Armagnac—were roasted whole and eaten that way, bones and all, while the diner draped his head with a linen napkin to preserve the precious aromas and, some believe, to hide from God.

        Tripe anyone?
        Kenjara coffee from goats poop?
        Culture an beliefs make people do funny stuff.

  69. nyleta

    You have to feel bad for the Fed………the US interest rate curve is starting to invert again and by the time they hopefully get a handle on the virus could be fully inverted again. See how US bank resale agreements with overseas clients have skyrocketed since the Repo restarted and they were starting to tiptoe backwards but that is a forlorn hope now……busy Repo desk next
    week I think

    https://alhambrapartners.com/2020/01/23/fx-repo-and-another-strong-labor-market/

    Not that they were trying to shut it down but they wanted to ease the pace……there are institutional reasons for Fed repo now

    https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/Microsites/arrc/files/2020/Recommendations_for_Interdealer_Cross-Currency_Swap_Market_Conventions.pdf

  70. skippy

    Trump administration cut 2020 center for disease control (CDC) budget by 19%, $1.2 billion, the war on science has consequences, seems he’s in league with smoko.

    • Wing Nut

      Trump’s in league with whomever strokes his ego. In this case it’s the evangelical types who think everything can be fixed with thoughts and prayers, a good splash of holy water tossed about for good measure followed by a healthy donation of money.

  71. boomengineeringMEMBER

    Speaking of Corona virus. We had 2 Corona”s once. Had a car accident, gave the other csr driver my address. When his insurance assessor arrived he looked over our car couldn’t find any evidence of an accident and left. Same make, model and colour but I was away at the time with the damaged one.

    • Djenka

      As a precaution, I threw away all the Corronas I had in fridge and in garage.
      This morning on news that Bush suggested his solution for bird flu (to bomb canary islands) should be applied on Corrona cervesa factories across the world. Trump have consulted his advisories on the subject

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        Didn’t swap, second option probably or they lost some of the details, all I know is no damage bill came.

  74. footsore

    Where are people going for updates on the coronavirus? South China Morning Post has seemed the best of the official outlets to me. I’m just comparing it to ABC, BBC and Reuters. It’s all taken with a big dose of scepticism. I haven’t been able to keep track or make sense of all the unofficial info coming out of China.

  75. Ortega

    The Novel Coronavirus is the most virulent pathogen faced by humans since neoliberal capitalism putrefied the minds of billions.

    So it’s not really shocking that Oz tourism operators are panicking because of a 1/4 drop in trade from China group-tours ban (chinese orders)

    How arse-hat, off-the-scale, bat-poo MAD is Straya?

    Jimmy Wong will get his selfie with the big pineapple! come pestilence or puss-filled lung asphyxiation!

  77. Ortega

    Scott Morrison, Australia’s worst PM since M Turnbull, needs to grow a pair and stop all travel between Aus and China.

      • Timmeh

        At least Rudd tried to push through some good policies and handled the GFC well. (except the FHB boost and letting foreigners have a free for all on our property). Morrison is all denial, arrogance and obfuscation. Also all about covering up all the corrupt cvnts in the LNP.

        • Rich4MEMBER

          Rudd and Gillard would have been more suited to running a P&C than a country.

          They were national embarrassments. Both destroyed the Labor party. Both destroyed our future.

        • Wing Nut

          Turnbull was also adept at denial, arrogance and obfuscation. The only difference was that instead of barging past those young ladies or grabbing a hand to shake Turnbull knew how to turn on the charm. I don’t think Turnbull would be any better than Morrison is at the moment.

    • Ronson Smith

      You’re kidding right? Wipe out all the oldies here and we don’t need to worry about pensions, about dividend imputation, about inequality in the housing market.
      We can kill off thousands of useless pensioners and replace them with vibrants!

  78. Timmeh

    So, we’ve all been talking about the virus. What’s peoples thoughts on the affect on the markets and AUD when they open? I’m predicting a bit of a shellacking. But knowing our luck, the AUD will probably rocket!

    No skip, I don’t care about neoliberalism or Trump in reply to this comment. 😛

    • skippy

      Must be like some grumbling about money not doing what they want … cuz they way they think it works … then blame stuff and not the human agency behind it. Bad money Bad … Shezz how many day traders grumbled when they were making packet during LIBOR antics, Grand Libertarian Greenspan Put et al.

      I posted a link to the agency post FDR and how that all unfolded up comment section, but still some can only see money and how it relates to their selves – hint its transnational tool for trade and not mattress stuff’er ….

      But then Libertarians always hated the Class [tm] Traitor FDR … chortle …

    • J BauerMEMBER

      Markets will be up because no matter how bad it gets they’ll say it could’ve been worse.

    • DavidMEMBER

      Well choking smoke and burning kangaroos and koalas were the first few nails in the tourism coffin. China’s overseas tour group and individual flight and hotel package deal ban goes into effect tomorrow so that will be a big problem.
      https://www.smh.com.au/national/coronavirus-ban-puts-quarter-of-chinese-tourism-to-australia-at-risk-20200126-p53ut2.html

      Unfortunately the number of Chinese visiting Australia is 7 times as large as back in the SARS days in 2003 so we will get the double whammy of much greater downside in tourism as well as probably far greater numbers of infected people already here than the SARS outbreak.

    • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

      Ya think immigration is out of control now wait till every god dam fckn chinaman tourist claims asylum here cos they have totally destroyed their own country with disease and pollution
      Markets and AUD to tank in 2 months

      • skippy

        Paging the Larry Summers memo … please pick up the courtesy white phone …

        DATE: December 12, 1991

        TO: Distribution
        FR: Lawrence H. Summers
        Subject: GEP

        ‘Dirty’ Industries: Just between you and me, shouldn’t the World Bank be encouraging MORE migration of the dirty industries to the LDCs [Least Developed Countries]? I can think of three reasons:

        1) The measurements of the costs of health impairing pollution depends on the foregone earnings from increased morbidity and mortality. From this point of view a given amount of health impairing pollution should be done in the country with the lowest cost, which will be the country with the lowest wages. I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that.

        2) The costs of pollution are likely to be non-linear as the initial increments of pollution probably have very low cost. I’ve always thought that under-populated countries in Africa are vastly UNDER-polluted, their air quality is probably vastly inefficiently low compared to Los Angeles or Mexico City. Only the lamentable facts that so much pollution is generated by non-tradable industries (transport, electrical generation) and that the unit transport costs of solid waste are so high prevent world welfare enhancing trade in air pollution and waste.

        3) The demand for a clean environment for aesthetic and health reasons is likely to have very high income elasticity. The concern over an agent that causes a one in a million change in the odds of prostrate[sic] cancer is obviously going to be much higher in a country where people survive to get prostrate[sic] cancer than in a country where under 5 mortality is 200 per thousand. Also, much of the concern over industrial atmosphere discharge is about visibility impairing particulates. These discharges may have very little direct health impact. Clearly trade in goods that embody aesthetic pollution concerns could be welfare enhancing. While production is mobile the consumption of pretty air is a non-tradable.

        The problem with the arguments against all of these proposals for more pollution in LDCs (intrinsic rights to certain goods, moral reasons, social concerns, lack of adequate markets, etc.) could be turned around and used more or less effectively against every Bank proposal for liberalization. — Lawrence Summers, [6][7]

        • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

          The Chinese didn’t need encouragement skippy, typical American, ya think it all revolves around you, dick heads

      • 2019 Ghost

        Sounds like we’ll have an epic boom when the market prices in the fact that a tenth of China just bought plane tickets for Sydney.

      • bolstroodMEMBER

        @Snapped Up Savvy
        Speaking of people who have completely stuffed their own country, have you noticed the smoke and flames recently ?12 million hectares and a billion native and domesticated animals burnt to a frazzle , over 2000 homes destroyed and 40 people dead ?
        Visited the dead Great barrier Reef ? The hundreds of KLM’s of dead tropical mangroves ? The devastated Channel country out back of Townsville where half a million cattle drowned ? The dead Murray/ Darling river system ? The millions of dead fish ?The drought stricken country west of the great divide, the dozens of towns running out of water ,suffereing the worst drought on record ? How about the Darling Downs , where CSG mining and Underground Coal Gasification has depleted / polluted the underground water of one of the most fertile food bowls in the country ? Visited the Nortern Rivers of NSW still struggling to recover from the record 2017 floods ? The denuded state forrests of NSW and Victoria ?

        • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

          That’s all very true, but It’s kids stuff compared to chyna, you ever been there? Sounds like you haven’t really seen the scale of it

  79. TailorTrashMEMBER

    How many Chinese were killed in industrial accidents , industrial contacted diseases , construction accidents and road accidents in the last 12 months ……we don’t know ….but it was within China …..this little nasty ( made in China ) spreading to the world can damage the brand so suddenly we are getting great activity and attention ……….but givin all it must be serious indeed …..

  81. DavidMEMBER

    Prior to 2019 total airline passenger numbers between China and Sydney have only gone down year on year twice this century. 2003 SARS and 2009 when Chinese growth was hit by the GFC.
    https://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoing/international_airline_activity-time_series
    2002 137,928
    2003 125,174
    2004 180,360
    2005 250,221
    2006 298,848
    2007 320,904
    2008 344,932
    2009 285,511
    2010 418,936
    2011 610,753
    2012 706,251
    2013 799,797
    2014 842,625
    2015 923,395
    2016 1,213,181
    2017 1,538,940
    2018 1,803,458
    2019 1,795,202
    Both times there was a big bounce back in the following years. Given the numbers of Chinese coming here looks to be topping out without a crisis we could be in for a significant drop.
    Then when the ban is lifted every Chinaman and his dog with be looking for somewhere new to live as they never know where the CCP is hiding the next #Racooncity
    Housing prices to the moon again!

  82. GramusMEMBER

    Taiwan has the right idea
    – ban anyone from Hubei from travelling to taiwan for any reason
    – ban anyone from the mainland from travelling to taiwan for tourism, social and professional exchanges, and medical trips
    – 14 day quarantine requirement
    https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3864901

    THIS is what Australia should be announcing right now.

  83. boomengineeringMEMBER

    SOUR GRAPES.
    After 1 lap of N Head hill, woke the son to go spearing (3.5hrs in the water). Rocked off at the tip of Long Reef and immediately separated which continued until 1 klm of separation. A lot of bait fish around was a good sign. School of Kingies, damm, missed, too much power on the rubbers *the more power the less accuracy.
    Oh well they were only barely legal anyway.