Chris Joye versus Steve Keen again

It’s all a bit of a yawn these days but there’s another installment in the Joye versus Keen saga today:

Comments

  1. NIRP means no mortgage stress whatsoever. Free house for everyone!! After all, that is the humane thing to do. Or so they say.

      • Thanos was a legend, he cut immigration in half. He was all about sustainability, but the cucks from Marvel had to try and SJW the Universe didn’t they? So they cheated, went back in time and basically lowered teh rates.

      • This. The lower the rates go the higher the principle becomes, as prices (ahem, ‘affordability’) rise.

        In the end, repayments are still the same, even if the interest component is nil. You can either meet the repayments or you can’t.

        No c#nt is going to give you an interest only mortgage where the farcken interest is non existent.

  2. reusachtigeMEMBER

    Joye is a ledgend and I reckon he has been almost as right as Peachy, but nowhere near as right as me of course. Keen just makes up fancy over-educated assumptions with negativity of mind. I thought he had perished.

    • He’s dead Keen to make Joye (and his elaborate facial furniture) march up that mountain with a Polish name!

  3. Steve Keen assumes that household debt needs to be repaid. He should read up on Philip Soos discovery that banks are splitting up mortgages into a large IO loan + multiple small P+I loans to subvert the APRA regulations. That means households actually don’t need to repay the debt. Debt can be carried it into retirement (already happening) and to death.

  4. And the root cause and continuing support of massive house prices … trebling of the average net immigration intake since 1998 … not a single word!
    House prices won’t rise massively if their is no one to buy them.

  5. Interesting development, wonder if the others will follow. This describes every second infestor cockroach that I know!

    ‘ANZ bank has said it will no longer lend to people who have a debt to income ratio greater than nine times.

    Money News obtained a document showing ANZ will not lend to customers with extremely high debts.

    Under the new policy customers with a debt to income ratio greater than nine times will be rejected.

    For example, if a customer’s gross income is $100,000, they will automatically be rejected if they apply for a loan of more than $900,000.’

    https://www.4bc.com.au/exclusive-anz-overhauls-home-loan-approvals/

    • The only thing that is unbelievable is that you seem to be surprised by this.

      I mean, what did you think would happen? Everyone would return to responsible lending and live happily ever after?! Ha!

    • “Sell side nixed private label mortgage reforms that investors wanted.” …..Right…

      Back in the Clinton / Bush43 days, low income minorities were found to be excluded by investors, hence the intervention by .gov. and was the creation of this behaviour.. now to today …..from the very same article…

      “This risk is the direct result of pressure from the….
      (1) lending industry…
      (2) consumer groups and
      (3) political appointees,

      … who clamoured for the government to intervene when home ownership rates fell several years ago. Starting in the Obama administration, numerous government officials obliged, mistakenly expecting that the private market ultimately would take over.”

      You seem awfully keen to pinpoint (1) there skip….. but you seem to ignore group 2 & 3.

      • Don’t even try cherry picking Rusty, those sub prime GSEs were fine till the looters got in and started whinging about market share and lost revenue, have you forgotten the orange don. Just another classic case of privatization for looting, same goes for the drool over social security and medicare.

        Not to mention it was the free market posse that argued all the changes that set everything up to start with, including post GFC efforts to stymie any regulation post facto. Now Trump is pushing it faster and further than all the rest combined, plus having a tanty about the Fed not lowering IR at his demands.

        Which is it lol ….

        BTW Clinton is a Blue dog DINO DNC free market neoliberal, Republicans are just the flip side with some religious iconography E.g. your just choosing you brand identity.

        • Skip: “Don’t even try cherry picking Rusty…”

          The article:
          “This risk is the direct result of pressure from the….
          (1) lending industry…
          (2) consumer groups and
          (3) political appointees,

          Skip before that:
          Sell side nixed private label mortgage reforms that investors wanted …. inferring the (1) lending industry…

          Astute!

          • So you are saying you don’t have any knowledge of events pre and post GFC or the orange don, eh, can’t make a connection to past and present, and how that squares the enchilada.

            Its the framework Rusty that transcends all involved.

  6. The mentality of those that foist this upon everyone in the – name of markets – and investor demand – Peach. I have a very clear memory of all the events leading up to the GSEs looting pre GFC and the antics to cover asses post GFC – classic Chicago boys stuff. Yet if anyone suggests anything for the unwashed is giving away free stuff and a destroyer of freedom and liberty commie.

    Lmmao Obama put Sub prime Penny in SecCom, still got called the socialist anti Christ …. then some blame the unwashed …

    • Wait, so to paint a story…

      When Shaniqua and her 5 children from 5 fathers… or Gomez on his $3.50 per hour strawberry picking job, stamp their feet up for a lender to come to market to offer them terms ….

      Then have Maxine Waters or Julian Castro put forward bills to have government be this lender….

      And a stupid media call it ‘structural racism’ for any opposition to the bill….

      Then the Chicago Boys go “here’s our chance boys… let it rip !!!”

      We only have to concern ourselves with changing the behaviour of the Chicago Boys?

      • You must have missed social psychology 101 back in the day Rusty, see Bernays, generational compounding, with a side of atomistic individualism in a market matrix.

        You may have also missed the 3 reams of contractual got ya legalese Gomez was proffered with the American dream staring him in the face – no wonder some are bent about Warren. Then again some are want to evoke Adams Smith but forget the bit about deception.

        • “You must have missed social psychology 101 back in the day Rusty, see Bernays, generational compounding, with a side of atomistic individualism in a market matrix.

          You may have also missed the 3 reams of contractual got ya legalese Gomez was proffered with the American dream staring him in the face”

          I didn’t miss either of those….

          But what I also didn’t miss was “We’re not lending Gomez $750k when he earns $3.50 per hour, cuz if we do, we’re going to lose our dough”… it used to be this way. Only when this was underwritten by .gov for no other reason than it permitted Maxine Waters wanted to buy votes…. did this change.

          Now sure, from a return point of view, the Chicago Boys saw the payoff for themselves…..

          You and I want to stop the behaviour of the Chicago Boys, but when it comes to changing the behaviour of Maxine Waters, you seem to be absent.

          And Warren’s appeal is much akin to your *ahem* abiltiy to reason…. it’s ALWAYS big, bad corporate fault, bail us out. Lizzy Warren has no porblems whatsoever using other peoples money to bail a Lizzy voter out.

          • Yes it is the ideologues behind neoliberalism, it infects every aspect of social perception right down to the individual. If you have a problem with politics look no further than the Washington consensus, two party affair, supply side consumers same, increasing crapification of everything [Boeing et al], health – education, etc ….

            Gomez gets pay squat because he has the weakest bargaining power, what you think floor to executive ratios went parabolic due to entrepreneurial spirits, try surplus labor instead.

            The comments original intent was how nothing is learned and how a quick buck stuffed in some tax haven supersedes all other information, but yeah, some say everything but the dominate narrative.

          • You and I want to stop the behaviour of the Chicago Boys, but when it comes to changing the behaviour of Maxine Waters, you seem to be absent.

            +1

            Gomez gets pay squat because he has the weakest bargaining power, what you think floor to executive ratios went parabolic due to entrepreneurial spirits, try surplus labor instead.

            Sounds like due to automation and high immigration and killing of workers rights, we have surplus labor will bad bargaining power. But does that mean we should be lending people with poor credit, any kind of credit? I remember being denied a mobile phone contract because I was on contract work back in the early 2000s. Thought it was unfair, but in hindsight probably a good thing.

  7. Ah, this is like the old days – Skip and Rusty Penny slugging it out with slabs of text.

    When did this last happen? 2014? 15? Is this a leading indicator of the coming mega-boom?

  8. Keen looks like he’s gonna cry. His whole demeanour is typical defeatist tard

    “its not analytical, its gut feeling”

    what a fkn joke!

    • I just don’t think he truly cares anymore about Australia. I think the real lesson here is because we control our own currency, and our economy lags the rest of the world by 6-10 years its pretty easy to predict what will happen so governments do their best to prevent it. He always underestimates the Government here – they know he’s right but they proactively manage it so it never eventuates making him look foolish.

    • Rent Seeking Missile

      ‘what a fkn joke!’
      Precisely.
      Chris ‘I’m never wrong’ versus Mr Gut Feeling.
      The finest economic minds our country can produce, apparently.

  9. harry petropoulosMEMBER

    Do we honestly believe that Australia will NEVER have a recession??????
    The short answer is YES………..BOTH Joyce/keen believe that house prices can go down by 30-40%
    Million dollar question………….when will we have a recession?
    You have to be mighty brave to buy now only to find out that your mortgage is higher than the price of your house