Coalition & Co to crowd fund new Tampa (with sharks!)

Lots of hysteria around borders today as the Coalition friends set up for another Tampa election. Paul Kelly personifies the neurosis nicely:

Labor has changed its stance, its policy and its heart on border protection. This is the enduring ­element in the present dramas. It is high-risk politics and misconceived policy by Bill Shorten that ensures border protection will be elevated as a frontline issue for the election.

The amended bill passed in the house late yesterday is irresponsible and weakens Australia’s border protection and seeks to ­impose on the minority Morrison government a new policy that the government has declared would endanger the nation’s interests.

It constitutes an extraordinary conflict between the executive and the parliament over border controls and raises the prospect of people coming to Australia because of decisions made by doctors in defiance of our government.

Lots of over the top adjectives there. Let’s recall what the bill does:

  • offers medical evacuation for 1000 current rotting refugees turned political prisoners and
  • limits that regime to only those currently incarcerated.

That’s it.

But what it does do as well is make Labor vulnerable in the event that another boat arrives quickly. Not in the real world of course but that left our shores long ago. But in the fake world, the Scummo Government will then have the opportunity to argue that it is the first signs of a returning flood owing to Labor’s soft touch on borders. This is the political gamble in the legislation, that it will stimulate another “children overboard” fake news election.

I’m not sure why the Murdoch hacks and their Coalition flunkies should wait on fake news chance. Why not band together to crowd fund a new Tampa. Remember to get some kids thrown overboard too. There are plenty of starving Indo fishermen to pick on the cheap.

Although it will cost a bit extra, footage of them being eaten by sharks would be brilliant. A bit of burly and all that. Vague rumours of throwing the kids in these days is a bit passe.


    • In the last year this scene was replayed, 50k arrived, and no-one was under any doubt it would have been 100k the next…

      The thing about some of these activist doctors, well paid, want the social gratis for personal kudos. To improve their lot among the like-minded minions.

      These guys are not refugees and are allowed to go home any time they want… they choose not to.

      • Its public knowledge – look it up, instead of these political prognostications!!! IMHO, at least try to be impartial…

      • Putting them up at your place then HnH?

        Look in the mirror, usually agree with you but on this issue you’re out of your depth. Basic knowledge of the Migration Act would help.

      • That was describing the year before, 8,000 the year before that; before it was shut down it was averaging over a 1,000 a week… by my calculations…

        In any case, if left open, with Asia at your doorstep, it would be hundreds of thousands pa before long (3 to 4 years). Human nature and all that. I don’t blame them, if the opportunity existed, I would take it!

      • Yep. If you look at the graph over time of the change in numbers of unauthorised arrivals the slope climbs significant;y after Rudd’s fit of moral vanity in softening Howard’s boat policy. Perhaps arrivals were suddenly going to plateau with no action by the government though Europe’s experience would suggest not. Graphs are all there on the parliamentary website.

      • Oh my, activist Doctors. Terrible humans, actually activists of all shapes. Ship em off to Siberia!

        Man, the sh$t people worry about.

        I’m more concerned about the 100k coming in on planes legally or those illegally overstaying – PAGING MIKE

        God, worrying about 1000 poor souls on an island or prospective bogeyman boats

      • Don’t be obtuse… its not about the thousand. The whole point of being a country is deciding who comes and joins the club. have a look at Europe when you lose control… before border controls were reinstated, the growth in travellers was becoming exponential.

      • Dunno, @ginger. I’d obviously believe @RT’s confidently stated opinions over Menadue’s referenced data.

      • Why do you care about the boats when more people are arriving now by plane than they did (under Labor) by boat? What is the difference? Why don’t people try to stop the planes? Why does a boat arrival rot in prison, where the plane arrivals get processed in the normal ‘humane’ way?

        This is all political bullsh!t. And you are falling for it!

      • @glamb et al – there were 51,946 illegal maritime arrivals during the last Labor government.
        People that try to enter Australia on boats via people smugglers, do not have a valid visa, hence they are illegal maritime arrivals. People that claim asylum after arriving by plane (onshore arrivals) have identity papers and visas and have entered legally.
        The onshore arrivals are usually a small part of the Humanitarian program eg. in 2015-2016 there were 2003 onshore arrivals form a total intake of 17,555.However during the last years of the Rudd/Gillard disaster the onshore component blew out to over 7000, due the illegal boat arrivals taking up offshore places in the program.

        So there aren’t tens of thousands of refugees arriving by plane and being granted asylum in Australia as you and other apologist like to claim.
        However it is true there are thousands of other visa over stayers here. eg student,visitors and working holiday makers.
        They aren’t asylum seekers.

      • Initial refusal rate ws 50 percent. They’re not refugees as per the convention. Most get up in the end on appeal and until recently they got approved by suddenly remembering new claims for protection

  1. “…current rotting refugees turned political prisoners…”
    Are they not free to accept deportation to somewhere else? I was under the impression that they were playing a long game of “Australia or bust”, trusting in western progressives utopian naivety to make it happen for them. Same thing everywhere there is political division over “borders”.
    Watch Roy Beck; “Immigration, Poverty, and Gumballs”. You gotta stop the boats / stop the human tide somewhere. Better to do it before your country has actually become Somalia, or before massive bloodshed happens. Enoch Powell could end up looking like Pollyanna.

    • They are ‘political prisoners’ because the Coalition government refuses to deport them: they are locked up indefinitely until another country offers to take them.

      • NZ is the backdoor to Australia. Once they get am NZ passport in 5 years they will be here in a flash hence why that was knocked on the head.

      • Stephen wasn’t the proposal those people would NEVER be able to come to AU, for holidays, no nothing.

      • Forrest GumpMEMBER

        NZ is the backdoor to Australia. Once they get am NZ passport in 5 years they will be here in a flash hence why that was knocked on the head.

        Conversely, if the government of a country incarcerated you and your children on a remote island for 7 + years, labelled you a pedophile and rapist, refused you and your children medical treatment, allowed your wife and kids to be either or both raped and molested, allowed the locals to assault you, refused to allow you to go to other countries that are accepting of you as you witnessed others in similar circumstances suffering mental illness and self harm …would you really want to come and stay here…REALLY? Seriously?

        Because they are refugees from 3rd world counties, doesn’t make them stupid.

    • Over 22,000 arrived by PLANE on tourist visa’s and then claimed refugee status, which they are entitled to do.
      Scummy and Inspector Potatoe Head don’t talk much about them, preferring the old ” Stop the Boats” mantra that worked so well for them a while back.
      Fortunately the Parliament and the population at large have rediscovered their humanity.

      • Oh please stop it !

        Only a handful of onshore asylum claims are deemed to genuine each year.
        The entire Humanitarian program has 18,750 places at the moment up from 13,750 a few years ago.
        In year 2015 – 2016, there were just 2003 successful onshore claims
        Most onshore asylum claims are dismissed.

        The Humanitarian Program is made up of Refugee (offshore), Special Humanitarian(offshore) and Protection Visas (onshore)
        If you enter Australia by plain and then put in an as asylum claim – it will most likely fail


  2. Just don’t show footage of those same people skipping out of Sydney International Duty Free on to a Fairfield bound train, working multiple cash-in-hand casual jobs before heading home to their 5-to-a-room slum rental…and flashing forward a decade to show them and their 17 newly arrived relatives waiting in the Liverpool Medicare office.

    Where out of nowhere, a shark appears.

  3. They should band together to crowd fund a new Tampa. Remember to get some kids thrown overboard too. Although it will cost a bit extra, footage of them being eaten by sharks would be brilliant.

    ha ha ha! 😆

  4. because of decisions made by doctors in defiance of our government.

    You filthy rat, Paul Kelly. I hope that you practice what you preach and next time you feel ill you go to get examined by a government bureaucrat, rather than the doctor.

    Maybe that shthead Morrisson can examine you himself. Because you deserve the best of care.

    • You’re the filthy rat – unelected officials don’t
      Get to decide who comes here. Are you going to put the illegals up at your place – you don’t think labor is going to stack the panel with left leaning doctors. Illegals get better medical treatment then people in regional Queensland.

      • Not to mention farmers facing ruin out here in regional Queensland. Nah, fvck them give more money to ‘refugees’ for the rich wankers in Wentworth to fawn over.

      • It’s called deterrence. What next are we going to let out all the prisoners because they’re doing it tough. These illegals have knocked back opportunities for resettlement. Why should refugees in UN camps have to wait in line longer than they have to while billions are spent patrolling our borders because some people refuse to wait in line. Furthermore its in breach of of international convention which says asylum seekers should seek asylum in the first country. There’s nothing humane about this at all – people smugglers are going to try it on under Labor because they’re controlled by the greens and further deaths are likely to happen.

      • Hey Stephen, going to go out on a limb here and say all the money spent on killing these people (literally) on these islands, could have been better spent more quickly accepting an NZ deal, and then redirecting those billions (?) away from private contractors (not to mention all the court costs and medical transfers) to the things you’re talking about.

        Better ROI p’raps?

      • “Illegals” ? What Illegals ?
        While we are a signatories to the UN Refugee Treaty there are no illegal arrivals.
        Illegal detainees are people incarcerated in Manus and Nauru , illegally detained by our government, as a deterrent to others.
        Illegaly treated by our government. Are the deaths on Nauru “better” than the deaths at sea ?
        Is Sam Scout Scott Morrison ? Sure sounds like him.

      • @Stephen re: Farmers.

        Just so we’re clear, you believe people facing serious life difficulties ought to be helped, but only if they’re Australian?

        May I ask what your view is on Australia being attacked by a far more powerful adversary intent on genociding us? Do you believe we should be wiped out for lacking military prowess or would you accept another powerful nation (the US) stepping in to help people that aren’t US citizens?

        Farmers were the ones who got uppity that we might stop bringing over the cheap labour. So how are we meant to reconcile all this? We expect protection from our allies, we expect cheap labour from our neighbours, we expect to help those facing ruin, and we’re also meant to tell refugees to go get effed no matter what?

        We can’t feed and house the world’s poor, not even a tiny fraction of them, but temper your fear of others for right now we are seeing what happens when we all tribe up and decide that ‘others’ arent worthy of our help. That is, how many people in Sydney and Melbourne care about rural issues? What goes around comes around.

      • I put “illegals” up there with “property insiders report anecdotally”, “I’m not racist, but…”, ”snowflake” and “virtue signalling”. Very safe to ignore whatever comes next.

      • Fekname, just for some perspective, I have to go out and help some farms I do contract shooting for put down some livestock later this week as a result of whats happened. Heartbreaking. But I digress.

        Yes I support not going to war overseas and yes I support an independent foreign policy ie not relying on treaties that really aren’t binding. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

        UNHCR is not fit for purpose. As I suggested yesterday we should withdraw and focus temporary relief for our neighbourhood ie West Papua.

        My fear of others? You don’t and if I want an arbitrary psychological assessment by an internet stranger I will ask for one. Open Borders through the front or back door does not work and we have both in Australia. What I don’t understand is the emotional response of the virtuous “foreigners are arbitrarily more deserving than citizens” crowd who think they are being kind, when they are really just socialising the cost of globalisation further onto citizens of first world countries.

        If people here took the time to actually read the Migration Act, they would realise Labor excised both Ashmore Reef and the Australian mainland under Bowen. So they are legally excluded from ever coming here and some of those on Manus/Nauru have from convictions and some of their own countries refuse to take them back because of it, especially Iran.

      • Refugees on Nauru have access to the same health care as the locals. We are funding the upgrade of the fire damaged nauru hospital. If they require urgent medical treatment, they are medivacced to Australia with a family member for support. The locals die there. Trouble is, once here they don’t want to return and are assisted by the advocates to stay.

    • Mr SquiggleMEMBER

      The Bill is positioned as addressing health issues but for some reason, the only acceptable solution seems to be ‘immigration’.

      Presumably, the sick detainees will also be released when they get to Australia.

      If someone has a health issue on Manus Island, then whats wrong with providing healthcare on Manus lsland?

      I don’t get it

  5. You know what is missing from the Tampa theory? Oh just a little thing called SEPTEMBER 11!!!!!

    Worst terrorist attack in history, against our major ally, triggered defence treaties the world over, led to almost instant war, and we are supposed to believe the 2001 election was about one boat?

    We are supposed to ignore how 9/11 buttressed sitting governments the world over?

    Australian exceptionalism is idiotic


    • That is a long bow. Stop the boats in case one of them hijacks an aircraft in Australia? Because they can not hijack flight GA 716 from Jakarta?

      Stanley knives were immediately banned after 11 Sep and nail clippers too. Then they got passengers to remove their shoes. And then banned liquids over 100 mL.

      The phrase “que jumper” was invented after a couple of women said to PM Howard, “we support you because we are trying to import our relatives from Sri Lanka and these boat people come here and are processed immediately”. Howard was also on radio twice a day where he probably learnt how stupid the electorate is.

      • First up, become a member and pay like the rest of us.

        Secondly, if I really have to explain to you how 9/11 completely changed global and therefore domestic politics, than really there is no hope for you.

        Willfully ignoring how 9/11 affected elections of sitting governments around the world is silly. Pretending the electorate would react differently here is even sillier.

        Howard was NEVER going to lose that election. Yes it was about national security, but not because of Tampa.

        It is typically Australian that the most significant global event to happen in a generation is ignored in favour of local irrelevancies.

        Misreading this whole thing means you misread what is happening now. Morrison is about to make that mistake, and we are about to see just how wrong Australian political thinking has been for a decade.

      • Nathan what has Jacob’s non membership got to do with anything. Just because the value proposition of a membership has not made itself clear to him, doesn’t mean his opinion is worth less than anyone else’s. Jeez Louise.

      • Jeez mate, you are here enough. Why don’t you pay for it?

        Still, it’s good that mouth breathers like you can’t crap up the members only threads. Thank Christ for that.

    • It was the combination of September 11, Tampa, a robust economy, and Kim Beazley’s Stupidity that gave that election to Howard.

      Tampa was not the only part of it but the political genius of the slogan “we will determine who comes here and the manner in which they come” should not be under estimated.

      • Robust economy? 9/11 caused economic turmoil, which was still being felt during the 2001 election. They dropped rates in October and December following the attacks.

        September 11 washed over the whole world, and we are still feeling it’s effects. It is a watershed moment in history. Howard was seen as very close to the USA and the US president, and Labor was still going through its weird anti-American phase. Remember Howard was in Washington during the attacks! He had to be evacuated.

        I get it. Thinking it was about Tampa, little Johnny, etc, makes you seem less irrelevant, and it makes it seem like politicians in this tiny backwater have some say in what happens to Australia. The reality, that we are almost completely beholden to international events well beyond our control, is unsettling.

        But unfortunately, we are almost completely beholden to international events well beyond our control.

    • Why stop at Tampa?

      How about another Bali Bombing, Port Arthur or Lindt cafe episodes?

      All brought to you by the LNP. 😉

    • Do a little research on BUILDING 7 WTC and you might not be as gullible as you are now. 😲
      You probably believe australia sailed through the GFC because our gov were awesome eh? LOL 😅

      • Lol, oh you are also a 9/11 truther. Love it.

        Whether it was an inside job (I mean lol, I’d love to think our politicians are that capable, but the reality is far more prosaic) or a terrorist attack, does not change how it completely re-ordered the world and changed the course of world history.

        Don’t reply to me with anymore gibberish.

  6. They are not rotting. There is a higher ratio of medical staff to illegals on Nauru and Manus then are in regional Queensland. Under Qld labor over 40 maternity wards have been shut down increasing the rate of deaths for babies in the regions from 6.1 to 23.3 babies every 1000 births. Why aren’t doctors and the media talking about this. It’s regional apartheid. It’s typical labor/Greens/independents virtue signalling. Also what about the 1200 deaths at sea under labor-
    Let’s not talk about that – real humane. Loser

      • That is tragic, if true. QLD should refuse to accept a single economic or lifestyle migrant until this is fixed.

        It’s clear that there’s not enough money to go around to provide a first-world standard of living for current residents. Don’t let any more in.

        It might take 8-12 years.

      • What a great idea – Given Qld and WA account for over 60% of the countries exports and Qld provides the southern states with excess baseload power I’d give you southern tossers a couple of months at best – btw I’d just put a wall around Sydney, Melbourne and Canberra. The country areas can stay.

      • Qld doesn’t actually have that option though, federal jurisdiction and all. At best they can make it financially difficult for immigrants.

      • Yes, the rabbit-proof fence should slow up the Boomers who will struggle to go over/under it. Pity it is so far north.

    • Thanks for the shocking update.

      12 Aug 2018

      The death rate in rural areas without birthing services is 23.3 babies per 1000 born, almost four times higher than in towns with an obstetrics unit, The Sunday Mail reported.

      Rural doctors say the closure of 40 country obstetric units is forcing women to either deliver their babies at home with no medical support or to risk a roadside birth trying to get to hospital.

      Migrants to the regions that lack maternity wards.

      • A former PM said we should not be supporting people’s lifestyle choices. That’s probably why those figures you quote are so awful .

      • Regardless, it’s a governments job to serve its actual citizens, not “want to be citizens”.

        Australians first, charity later.

      • Thanks for the link Jacob. Luke as per October last year there were 650 illegals on Nauru and 65 health workers – a ratio of 1 to 10. My hometown of 6000 people has two doctors and no maternity ward. There are two mental health team leaders, 15 mental health nurses, three psychiatrists, three councillors, one mental health manager and two torture and trauma counsellors. There is one clinical child psychologist, one clinical team leader, one developmental occupational therapist and on e social worker. There aren’t any more children left in detention. These people have refused resettlement elsewhere. But regardless of all that its about deterrence. Michael Pezzullo , the Home affairs secretary, a former staffer to Gareth Evans (labor) has said at a Senate hearing that illegals are self harming in order to cause a sufficient degree of internal symptoms.

      • Sam I live near a town of 7000 people with no hospital, but 2 x GPs.
        Within 25km of my house is a regional referral L5 hospital with excellent WCU. How close are you to an actual hospital/maternity ward.

        Thanks for the update btw, isn’t this something citizens should be clambouring for via their local QLD member and Fed counterpart?

      • ” rural areas without birthing services”

        I suspect that covers a very tiny fraction of the community, much less than “rural areas”.

      • Gympie 20,000 plus people, Bowen 10,000 plus people, Maryborough 30,000 plus people, Nambour 50,000 plus people, chinchilla 6,000 people, Biloela 6,000 people, Ingham, Beaudesert circa 20,000 each (both reopened by the Lnp) – on top of those there’s another 30 towns with populations of around 2,000 to 3,000 each – so say 200,000 people+ would live in towns without a maternity ward

      • so 200,000 out of 4.6 million,
        or around 4% of the population.
        Some of that are never going to have adequate medical cover locally, this is what remote means.

    • That is the whole point : why are we housing them in Nauru at all at such great cost? If they are genuine refugees, move them to Australia, otherwise deport them. This indefinite detention is a huge waste of money.

      • Because if they get resettled in Australia, the people smugglers will try it on knowing labor is a light touch- they may not be successful but there’s two factions in Labor – the sensible old blue collar right faction which is outnumbered by the crazy left green faction. Prison systems are expensive as well – but that’s the price of deterrence.

      • @ Samscout
        Labor right ain’t blue collar. Corrupt spiv scum more like.
        Eddie Obeid, Eric Roozendaal, Bob Carr the list goes on.

      • “It’s a deterrent.”

        IT IS NOT. Boats are still trying to get here. We spend $1bil+ on having boarder force and our navy turning the boats back.

        PEOPLE ARE STILL SEEKING ASYLUM. They are just arriving via plane. So we have no more control over our borders than we did before. It is all politics.

    • At the height of the boat arrivals to Xmas island (7 a day), there were over 300 medical staff contracted to provide health services to detainees. Nauru at it’s height also had a large medical presence.

  7. ScoMo may rethink an earlier election now, push real hard on the “Tampa II” or “No Borders” agenda and go early to the electorates.
    I imagine a big swing in the polls back to the Government.
    I still dont think it will save them though, may not lose as many seats as the polls are indicating currently though.

    • I suspect the LNP will try a Tampa II type scare but given the level of trust people have in politicians, this could back fire on them spectacularly.

  8. If only this much impassioned hysteria could have been whipped up following the revelations of the bank “execs”.
    It is ok to directly make Australian living standards worse by stealing from them but it is not ok to treat refugees humanely.

    • Sweeper,

      There was plenty of impassioned hysteria in the AFR and The Australian ……….

      ……….at the merest thought of any real sanctions on the banks or their executives.

      Home loans up.
      Less credit for business

    • At last, a sensible comment!!

      I can’t believe the torrent of drivel and bile in these comments…….sure makes me glad my family got here after WW2.
      Funny thing was, you could have said the same about my lot back then; look different, eat funny smelling food, don’t speak English. My dad still flinches a bit when he recalls the abuse they copped, being called wog, wop, dago, greaser etc.

      Given all the genuine f**king issues we are facing, the fact this debate has fired up the peanut gallery so hard makes me wonder if we will ever learn to distinguish between what is genuinely an issue and what is confected political crap.

      To those arguing about the zero sum of looking after refugees before our own, pull your heads in. The government chooses to neglect its people, just as it chooses to mistreat refugees, just as it chooses to heap largesse on wealthy retirees, just as it refused to properly investigate the banks and just as it refuses to effectively tax corporates.

      There is no choice between one or the other. Binary politics is for imbeciles

      • “There is no choice between one or the other.”
        There is also not the resources to do it all, so choices have to be made.

      • @bjw678
        “The government chooses to neglect its people, just as it chooses to mistreat refugees, just as it chooses to heap largesse on wealthy retirees, just as it refused to properly investigate the banks and just as it refuses to effectively tax corporates.”
        Delraiser, what he said
        There is the answer to not enough resources.

      • Well, there are choices to be made, there are only finite resources that can be applied to any problem/number of problems.

        We, as a country, can’t look after the world. We can’t take in every sob story and give them a home, nor should we. It’s not our job as a nation, and it would be to the detriment of current Australians were we to do so.

      • I wonder the same thing and am pessimistic for 2 reasons:
        1. the media is so bad people don’t get the full information or the order of importance of issues
        2. Most people dont understand the ruling class because they don’t mix in those circles. But they do interact daily with new immigrants and other scapegoats.

        I would be more than happy to send all the bank execs and directors to Manus and Nauru as a direct trade for the refugees. The country would be infinitely better off.

      • @bolstrood
        “An unprecedented 65.6 million people around the world have been forced from home by conflict and persecution at the end of 2016. Among them are nearly 22.5 million refugees”
        You really think reducing welfare for the elderly would allow Australia to support 65 million displaced? 22 million refugees? The reality is no amount of do gooder wishing makes the impossible possible, decisions actually have to be made in the real world.

      • Wow, way to miss a point……….

        Why are we even arguing resources? Are we going to be the destination for the entire worlds refugees?

        Logic should tell you that we will only end up with those that have means to get here (can’t walk/train/bus here like the Syrians did to Europe and a tinny trip from Africa is a bit dicey). In our region, the main drivers are; a few Tamils still fleeing Sri Lanka, mainly educated Iranians fleeing Islamic theocratic lunacy and a few other stragglers who can afford to fly to Indonesia. I can’t see the Muslim refugees from Burma being an issue because they are headed in the other direction fleeing to Bangladesh and can hardly afford a flight to jakarta and a payoff to a Indo fisherman. Back when Rudd was PM, the Tamils fleeing Sri Lanka were the main driver and that will have slowed down. The “we don’t have enough resources” argument is rolled gold horsesh*t and you know it. The amount of resources we spend on either deterrents or incentives (depending on which side of the fence you sit) is insignificant if compared to what gets p!ssed away through tax rorts or corporate welfare.

        My point is that blaming Qld hospital resourcing shortfalls on refugees is straight from the P. Dutton book of obfuscation. The same as that idiot Liberal candidate in Penrith blamed M4 traffic congestion on boat people.

        Also consider the fact that roughly 100-150k Chinese, Poms and Indians (not picking on them, just pointing out they make up the majority of permanent migrants) arrive in Australia every year. How many of them qualify as refugees? Bugger all I’d suggest (any legitimate Chinese candidate for refugee status is likely locked up in a gulag somewhere) yet no one dare mention that these people are “economic migrants” pure and simple. Get a couple of thousand people buying a flight to Jakarta and paying off a Indo fisherman and suddenly the ghouls crawl out of the crevices screaming about “queue jumpers” and “economic migrants”. A bit of perspective in this debate is required

  9. Sure bring another 1000 in… the tax payer can pick up the tab. One in four of Australia’s 22 million people were born overseas; 46 per cent have at least one parent who was born overseas; and nearly 20 per cent of Australians speak a language other than English at home. In 2013, overseas migration represented 60 per cent of Australia’s population growth in the year.
    Can anyone recommend this minority Anglo Saxon a country where I can illegally emigrate to?…why if we can get enough of us Anglo Saxon’s to leave we can take over someone else’s country at their expense!

  10. proofreadersMEMBER

    Why would the LNP bother crowd funding the “sting” – they have plenty of friends at NewsCorp?

  11. Labor policy is probably fair enough & not a real issue. But all it will take is one boat & they will lose the election, risky given the half truths & rumours that will go around in communities who may consider coming via boat.

    • Shorten has taken a big risk. A stupid one in my view bit I just don’t think this is a real enough political issue right now for there to be another Tampa style election. I don’t think Scummo has the political skill to pull one off either.

    • The real worry is that Labour didn’t realise that a money bill can’t be pushed from the cross bench. No doubt the Clerk of the House pointed it out to the Speaker…that is of course part of his job, but those negotiating this from Labour should be aware of such basic facts.

      This is all a bit of a storm in a teacup……I will be fascinated to see how the Borg reacts to what Penny Wong and her mates have in store for them on the identity politics front.

    • The chance to humiliate the government was too tempting, even if it puts the ‘boat people’ into the news again. Winning the battle but losing the war.

    • Even tho these matters are Operational, we don’t get to hear about.
      I believe the Navy turns back boats all the time.
      It is not beyond Dutton and Morrison to order the navy to ignore a couple.

      • Exactly! The navy have been turning back boats (didn’t one make it through a few months back?). All the LNP have to do is lift the news blackout & hay presto the election is up for grabs, despite no 9/11 etc, I feel it still looms large in voters minds, possibly more given their stories from Europe.

        That said, despite Labor currently having the better policies I wouldn’t mind if they lost so that the LNP wear the coming recession & the mistaken narrative that the LNP are the better economic managers is broken for a generation. It’s still a good election to lose, most likely.

  12. The IPA/RupsNews are determined to keep the slaves coming by air.

    Look over there at the very small no. of boat people while 10,000’s waltz in the front door via dodgy visas.

  13. Let’s really be honest about this. Is this issue really a priority for people at the moment? It worked for Howard as people didn’t have anything else to think about as it was all good. Now there are a lot more issues that keep people awake at night. I can’t see this being an election winner for the Libs except in electorates they would win anyway.

    • Exactly! It isn’t a real political issue in the electorate so it won’t resonate widely. Scummo is also the one in government so he wears the can if things go wrong.

      I’m very confident this won’t be a Tampa election.
      Scummo doesn’t have the political judgement or skill to pull it off anyway. Like a moron he will over egg it ‘where the bloody hell are you’ style and it will explode in his face if he tries.

    • It’s only an issue to the Conservatives and their media hacks at 2GB and Sky News. The hyperventilation from Dutton already this morning will put people off, they haven’t figured out he’s an electoral liability and quite frankly as mentioned here and in other places, people are more concerned about every day issues and understand duty of care to refugees.

  14. I don’t think you are objective on this issue David. Unfortunately being humane and ‘soft’ will only encourage ‘the boats’.

  15. For an economics blog there is very little discussion on how it is largely economic decisions, particularly around foreign debt, trade and privatisation that cause a significant number of refugees. Most of the source countries would greatly benefit from imposing significant tariffs on import of manufactured goods to allow their own industries to develop while still being allowed to export freely.

    Also I think the main problem is there is far too much incentive being offered to refugees. Why is having families on life long welfare in western city immigrant ghettos considered a humane thing to do. Would they not be better off housed, educated and supported in their own country (provided that the immediate risk of harm is not to great) for a small fraction of the cost. This would allow Australia to support far more refugees in total.

    • Good point. If we had truly fair world economy where the developed nations didn’t subsidise huge sections of their economies, developing nations didn’t have net capitol outflows as capital controls controlled flows & fairer trade policies (that also protected local jobs in developed countries) we’d all be better off (though financially poorer). But there would be less people wanting to immigrate if they had a half decent chance, it takes a lot for most people to want to leave their home country, friends & family.


    Jesus HnH – you’re some kind of soothsayer!

    The government closed Christmas Island Detention Centre in October. The day after losing the vote in parliament, they reopen it. What’s the game here? Do you reckon in the next few weeks we might see a couple of boats *accidentally* slip through the net and wind up in Christmas Island only for the gummint to blame Labor?

    Are they that stupid?

    • That is exactly what they are doing.

      That is why Dutton and Morrison were out and about telling people smugglers that the rules have changed and they should fire up a few boats and have a go.

      Fortunately, I suspect most people smugglers and their clients are smarter than that and will take a bit more care to check the rules before getting aboard.

      As long as any new boat arrivals face the prospect of going straight to Manus or Nairu they are unlikely to set sail.

      It is onshore processing that they are after as they know we do not have the stomach for that after the experiences in the 1990s.

  17. The people smugglers are doing more business than ever. under that rubbish Dutton and SCOMO
    The difference is that their clients are arriving by plane rather than boat and are less likely to be genuine refugees.
    The Home Affairs Department website shows 27,931 protection visa applications were made in the latest financial year by plane arrivals.

    • I read somewhere the uptown 5% of those of on protection visas are “missing”. That safe and secure borders for you.

  18. I could not conceive of a system more prone to rorting and abuse. It is a recipe for disaster, and all the ingredients are right there.

    The starting point that the assessment of psychiatric illness is very subjective and very inaccurate. There are almost no objective tests to assist in the diagnosis. This means there is substantial interpersonal variability in the diagnosis – one psychiatrist may say there is an illness, another may say there isn’t. Often the person requires admission and prolonged observation in order to make a more confident assessment.

    Then lets throw in the “secondary gain.” That is, what does the person have to gain (beyond diagnosis and treatment) by being diagnosed with an illness. For most people, the answer is zero – in fact we hope there is nothing wrong when we go to a doctor. But there is secondary gain with a person seeking to defraud an insurer. There is secondary gain with a person having his criminal charges quashed on the grounds of mental illness. And there is (enormous) secondary gain if a mental illness gets someone to Australia – something they have wanted for many years.

    Then lets aadd in all the barriers which will further complicate assessment. There will be a language barrier – yes there will be an interpreter, but most communication is via nuances of how words are delivered and body language rather than the words themselves, so there will be a significant barrier even with an interpreter. There will likely be a cultural barrier. There will (presumably) be a teleconference barrier.

    Then there will be the inability to obtain a collaborative history from 3rd parties – something vital to any psychiatric assessment.

    All of the above means it will be extremely difficult for any doctor to confidently exclude a psychiatric illness.

    Finally, add the asymmetric legal liability and risk facing the doctor. If s/he undercalls it (i.e. says the person can stay on Nauru and then something happens), then that doctor could be sued – the government has already being sued for alleged breeches of duty of care on Nauru. However there is almost zero risk to the doctor if s/he overcalls it.

    So given all of the above, what do you think the doctor is going to say in this position with a very weak hand o cards and a gun held to their head? “Well I guess you better transfer him for further assessment.”

    What an absolute disaster.