China plays catch-up on US aircraft carriers

This is not serious, via The Australian:

Clive Palmer has claimed in a national television advertising blitz that the Chinese Communist Party may be plotting a “clandestine takeover of Australia” through a little-known airstrip in the Pilbara capable of taking military aircraft. He did not mention in the ad, which aired last night, that the two retired military men making most of the claims were his nephew and former chief of staff.

But this is, via the SCMP:

Four of at least six aircraft battle groups China plans to have in the water by 2035 will be nuclear-powered, as the Asian giant tries to equal the US in naval strength, according to Chinese military experts.

All of China’s new carriers were expected to be equipped with electromagnetic catapults similar to those used by the United States, the experts said. The US’ electromagnetic aircraft launch system, known as EMALS, can launch more aircraft more rapidly than the older diesel systems.

China has one aircraft carrier in service – the Liaoning, commissioned in 2012 – and the Type 001A, the first carrier built in the country, which is still being tested.

Chinese navy veteran warns training, not hardware is key to military preparedness

“China’s nuclear-powered aircraft carriers with [EMALS-like systems] are expected to join the navy by 2035, bringing the total number of carriers to at least six – although only four will work at the front line,” Wang Yunfei, a naval expert and retired PLA destroyer naval officer, said.

“The country needs to keep developing until it is at the same level as the United States.”

Beijing is keen to expand its aircraft carrier battle groups to fulfil its global naval ambitions and defend its growing overseas interests. Construction of its next conventional diesel-powered aircraft carrier, the Type 002 – the first equipped with the electromagnetic launchers – began last year.

Wang said the budget for the carrier projects would not be cut despite an economic slowdown and a trade war with the US.

After a fourth sea trial, China’s Type 001A aircraft carrier may go into service within months

“Even if the economic downturn has an effect, we can adjust proportions in total military expenditure to make sure naval modernisation keeps going,” he said. “For example, we can cut the number of new tanks.

“The budget for military modernisation will not be cut, even if [Beijing] decided to [use force to] reunify Taiwan. In a war scenario, [Beijing] may reduce spending on things like infrastructure, but it would increase military expenditure.”

President Xi Jinping has ordered the PLA to modernise by 2035 and become a top-ranked fighting force by 2050. Song Zhongping, a television military commentator in Hong Kong, said China’s fleet of aircraft carriers would expand to reflect its global standing.

With the PLA planning to have four nuclear-powered carrier battle groups on the front line by 2035, the Type 001A and its next-generation carrier Type 002 would become temporary battle ships, Song said.

Chinese President Xi Jinping gives army its first order of 2019: be ready for battle
“The Type 002 – a conventionally powered carrier with an EMALS-like system – may become the only one of that kind of aircraft carrier, because China will next build multiple nuclear-powered aircraft battle platforms,” Song said.

Both Wang and Song said the Liaoning would be replaced by the Type 001A by 2035, by which time the Liaoning would be obsolete. The Liaoning was refitted from a half-built Soviet hull bought from Ukraine in 1998 and is used to train carrier crews.

The PLA Navy will develop one of its fighter jets for use on its aircraft carriers, with debate ongoing over whether that will be the FC-31 or J-20. China has just one type of carrier-based fighter jet, the J-15, whereas the US has two.

Wang said Chinese engineers were developing a next-generation carrier-based fighter, describing it as a variant of the FC-31 stealth fighter, whose fighting capability may be “a little bit behind the US’ F-35C”.

Song said China’s overall strength would remain limited by a lack of combat experience.

“China’s aircraft carrier technology and its carrier-based fighter jets will be developed to match the same generation of their American counterparts, but hardware build-up is only part of the picture,” he said.

“The standard of warships’ crew training and damage control have remained key shortcomings of the PLA Navy, because they has not had as much real combat experience as the Americans.”

The US has 21 aircraft carries and they are likely to also upgrade over the next 15 years so China won’t catch the technical superiority.

But that is not the important point here. What matters is that this is a floating power projection platform that China is assembling. It will only need to sail one of these little beauties down the NSW coast and anchor it off Batemen’s Bay to end Australian democracy.

There won’t be any shots fired or folks killed. You just stick your carrier within range of the capital and tell folks what to do. It has always been thus with gunboat diplomacy.

The next time you see someone condemn Donald Trump for some minor violation of social norms, you might like to point this sticky little geopolitical fact out.

ANZUS and the US Pacific Fleet is now all that stands between Australians and Sinostralia complete with its forced settlement of law abiding Chinese communist migrants and Pilbara labour camps for those with lowly social credit scores.

Comments

    • How clever is Clive??
      Just picked up more free coverage, that any other topic today
      too easy. and free.
      Is Peta Credlin on clive’s team?

    • Testoster-Tony got a couple of Russian warships parked off the QLD coast when he threatened to “shirtfront” Putin at a G20 meeting a few years back.

    • The first bulk carrier has been converted to LNG. Not coal, but close..the worst grade polluting oil burners now, and amouny to around 13% of global pollution. Another benefit brought to you from yhe globalists.

  1. ” You just stick your carrier within range of the capital and tell folks what to do”
    bah, that’s expensive in terms of fuel. Luckily Aussie pollies are cheap-cheap to bribe and will sell out their country for a few hundred thousand in donations or board seats.

    One Chinese aircraft carrier can carry slightly more figher bomber aircraft than the entire RAAF. This assumes we can even keep the expensive and ineffective F-35’s flying. We no longer have any carriers as the Navy did not have the skills to run them.

    The truth is we no longer have the skills or the will to defend ourselves. Hoping that an increasingly isolationist USA will come to our rescue is a gamble.

    • in 1810-14 Napoleon planned to invade Australia, on the advice of his spies, “before they get the ability to defend them selves”
      Plan was to blockade Port Jackson with 2 ships at the entrance, and have loyal troops from South Africa release the Irish convicts, and thus over run, the corrupt Rum Corps and politicians
      Had he won at Waterloo, we would now be a French colony.

      https://thewest.com.au/entertainment/movies/napoleons-australian-obsession-ng-ya-302716

    • yeah nah, an occupying force and vibrant Quisling PR will be arrow fodder for every Ocker guy n gal. We can have a show trial for Andrew Robb and do him in a nice “Gaddafi video”. Secretly who doesn’t want to form a resistance and molotov every takeaway, mobile phone repair kiosk and Flam-Clad highrise student hovel? Vive la resistance..maaaaaaaate.

      • Dunno why they call it Dutch Courage,
        but a few swigs from that bottle of French 43% and I’m with you

  2. > The next time you see someone condemn Donald Trump for some minor violation of social norms, you might like to point this sticky little geopolitical fact out.

    It’s been fascinating to watch you guys swing from repulsion to pragmatic acceptance that there’s more at stake.

    What’s going to be super fascinating is whether the rumour of Xi and Moon attending the NK summit in Vietnam.
    Rumour is a possible official end to the war.

    How will Xi play it?

    • I’ve beeb pro-Trump all along.

      I think that I am a leading indicator.

      I need to trade on my opinions more.

      • Same boat.
        I won a couple hundred on him winning.
        Should have bet more.

        That’s not to say I like him. He’s an asshole, but probably the right asshole for the job.

      • Speaking as an American, Trump is great because of 2 things:

        1) He’s a political outsider, so as corrupt as he is, at least he’s not Washington corrupt.

        2) He’s never had to suffer for any error or misdeed he has ever committed, so everything done in office is exposed to the harsh light of day. When My Fellow Americans (TM) complain about anything specific he has done, I ask “Well… what about when Obama/Bush the Lessor/Clinton/Papa Bush did X?” with X being a close approximation to some crappy thing Trump just did.

        The blank stares followed by dawning realizations are like crack to me!

      • Nah – agent smithy will still be telling us how its all a right-wing plot to discredit socialists, and real socialism has never been tried, probably right up to when the Chinese take over.

        Then he’ll be stunned when it turns out that the Chinese were really racialist all along!

    • myne – I would have thought that if they were to end the Korean War at the summit in Vietnam at the end of the month, Uncle Vlad would have to be there. Partly because Russia, like China, shares a border with North Korea but also because the Soviets were the ones that instigated the war in the first place and were the ones that gave permission for the armistice to come into effect. A lot of the materiel for the war and much of the sanctions busting efforts since 1953 have been run out of Vladivostok.

      Maybe he’ll be the surprise guest.

      • Grandpappy Kim was trained by the Soviets and was likely born in Russia, too (despite the Nork propaganda).

        Saying that, Kim Il Sung was their second choice behind Cho Man-sik who was much more progressive (but ultimately didn’t play ball and therefore got his ass assassinated as the parallel was breached) but originally the Korea’s were to be reunified after 5 years.

  3. It”s also worth noting the US are likely to elect a communist style Dem gov if you look at what the WSJ is saying, and with debt levels never seen before, how does the US come back?

    China is close to leap frogging the US in arms. Cariers are useless eith hypersonic weapons which China claoms to lead

    • John Howards Bowling Coach

      [email protected]@t!

      Have you even been to China or done business with them? The Chinese are so full of crap you can’t accept anything they put forward. China is still a 3rd world dump. I have spent a lot of time there, the place is held together with sticky tape, the new high speed railway stations are rusting away a few years later because they used garbage to coat them instead of quality modern paint. Their economy in reality is a fraction the size of Japan, it’s a mile away from overtaking the USA. China is almost as much a facade as the Soviet missiles that turned out to be paper mache, don’t believe the lies they spin. It’s a paper money facade. Their greatest strength is being able to hold a straight face while lying about everything.

      • Sic semper tyrannis

        Yes -I was travelling there from the early 1980’s having learned the language and studied it at University when a westener was an absolute novelty – there were no tall buildings and no cars.

        You, on the other hand – clearly have never been there – ever.

        Their infrastructure is brand new – while the United States on the other hand – has not one bullet train and has not updated any of its infrastructure in almost 40 years.

        Comments like yours are not just annoying as they are so clearly made up – but just make you look really stupid.

      • I don’t doubt what you’re saying. I did say claimed. And yes I have been there on business and they are full of s..t with even more corrupt elites than us…and that takes some doing.

      • Sic semper tyrannis

        While I haven’t been to China, I can attest that it’s quite possible to build a bunch of new shit badly.

        I was in a recently completed ‘luxury’ tower in Kuala Lumpur – a place which seems to have all the cash in the world for something new and shiny but pennies for basic maintenance.

        Anyhow, this tower. I found myself trying to get from one carpark level to another. Aside from the confusing fact that the stairwell didn’t exit at all floors, the headroom in the stairwells got progressively shorter and shorter as it went down. I was getting claustrophobic as my 6’3 was hunched down to about 5′. The building was abysmally finished. Big slops of paint droppings were all over, there were unfinished blank concrete bits where apparently they ran out of paint and didn’t give enough of a crap to get more. The grout in the bathrooms was already receding. There were barely any truly flat walls. The quality is simply not there.

        From afar, the building looked great. I suspect it will be demolished in 20-30 years though.

        Just like the Opal tower – which… though it’s an assumption, I at LEAST expect to have consistent clearances in the fire escape. That was terrifying.

        Also, how many 20+ story buildings have simply fallen flat on their side around the world?

      • John Howards Bowling Coach

        Ok Mr Sic, I bow down to you. I presume you’re a paid troll.

        Not only are my comments not made up, I also speak the language, spend months of every year there, manage the region for an ASX 200 company and I am married to a Chinese lady. Maybe you’re milage is different to mine, however I am not a hollow opinion, I know China well, have travelled top to bottom including the western frontier, I am not some keyboard warrior who learned everything from google, I am on the streets fighting off the waves of scammer and panhandlers as well as meeting with their supposed best.
        I am not sure if you have actually used their high speed rail network outside of the tier 1 cities for example however unless you are blind you would see that the infrastructure is low grade, so poorly made and not fit for purpose that in a few short years not only are the canopies of most of the stations rusting away, the tiles of adrift and the whole system is in need of renewal. That is just a symptom and 1 example of the supposed China miracle. Locally run hotels which are new have the grout falling out of the tiling before they’re a year old and the service standards are appalling.
        For anyone aside from bulk commodities the markets in China are small to almost non existent and the whole world is competing for a piece of that small pie, usually trading at a loss because they have been fooled into the China gold rush lie and think there will be a payoff down the track. Although that will likely never occur because the locals will have stolen their IP and undercut them before that happen.
        There are no ethics, only a smugness that they are so smart when they have cheated their business partners and stolen everything from them. There is a conga line of pollies and other useful idiots ready to speak of the miracle of China lift themselves from poverty but no one acknowledges it’s been nothing more than a massive transfer of wealth from the West to China.
        It’s all a facade

      • @JHBC, as somebody who has lived for the past 7+ years in HKG and visited China numerous times, what you say rings absolutely true. It’s one thing to build something that looks good to the uninformed observer the moment it’s finished and then flog it off to somebody or declare “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED”. It’s quite another to build things to last and then maintain them accordingly. As it happens I’ve also lived around 6 years in Japan. The contrast could not be more stark. It’s why I believe China is a paper tiger.

      • It does look a lot like sst has an agenda. But in the end the battle for impressions is part of the cold war, but really Russia didn’t fall over because they lost the propaganda war, or because they lacked smart people that could build things. It might not be perfect, but the US is an open democracy where dissent acts as a check on fraud, falsity, pollution, corruption etc and without those things the power ponzi gets very unruly very fast.

        https://youtu.be/jH1OIn94swA

    • Sic semper tyrannis

      See my post below. You are correct.

      Its not just hypersonic but their stealth, jets, drones, quantum radar and sonar, space (moon and mars), etc. US military openly admits it has fallen behind – does not deny it.

      Its just strange watching people claim things even the US is now scrambling to overcome.

      China now has TWO stealth bombers under production including the XIAN H-20 which is a competitor to the US stealth bomber but also their own unique role, known as the JH-XX, and is a shorter range bomber somewhere between the B-2 and the F-35 multi role.

      ..

      • Dunno about all that other stuff, but the quantum radar deal seems like a scam to me. Defies the laws of physics, and all that.

      • Sic semper, I am worried about the rise of China for my personal freedoms. It seems you are not. Why not. When you lived there did you feel free. Maybe as a western you were, but the average Chinese. Please explain to me why you think China will become the greatest power of all and then not try and influence my personal freedoms….. who knows this maybe the last time we are allowed to talk about this subject.

      • If China has developed weaponry that makes aircraft carriers an obsolete technology why are they racing to catch up to the US in the numbers and firepower of aircraft carriers they have? Surely they would assume that the Americans will also have that type of weaponry by 2035. A flaw in our resident chinese astroturfer’s argument me thinks.

      • Col – I think Sic Semper works for the United Front. Bit of a compliment to macro business that they bother getting an agent of influence to astroturf here.

      • Gee, why would the US military openly admit it has fallen behind? Couldn’t be lobbying for funds by any chance?

    • The US has two political parties; Hard Right and Ultra-Hard Right.

      All the “socialism” BS in the media is about maintaining the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex and the wars of political cronyism. We’ll not see anything close Nordic-style socialism for a generation at least, and likely never in the US of A.

      • I hear you. I used to work there and have family there, so I get what you say about the Dems as they are the party for the wealthy and not the people. They definitely are in turmoil though. I’ve mixed with some of the NY elite via mates over there, and there is never going to be any compromise on anything, and in that sense that it seems to be getting worse. The Dem states I lived in never accepted taxes in any form, so I’m not sure how the new Dems in congress will do what they say. The BS/fake news now is at a peak; can they recover? I’m not so sure as they have huge public and private debt…even MMT is not going to help lol

    • John Howards Bowling Coach

      There is a lot of that at play as well. I talk to the wife about how much they hate us and she gave me a few insights on how badly they want to get revenge for perceived humiliation that they have in fact imposed on themselves. Chairman Xi is parroting about 100 year of humiliation to the people to build up their hate as they do with their Japanese war history. But the reality is their 100 year of being cut off from the world is self imposed thanks to Chairman Mao and the Opium Wars were in fact started by a trade imbalance when China hoarded the global currency of trade at the time (silver) and refused to buy anything, only sell (sound familiar?) and the British East India Co was dispatched to find something (they resorted to Opium) they could sell to China to break the trade imbalance.
      However back on topic, an aircraft carrier or indeed a naval fleet, does not give you bigger dick, just a weapon of vengeance for your own insecurities.

  4. SchillersMEMBER

    This information (a fleet of long range nuclear powered submarines with EMALS capability) should be viewed together with China’s determination to extend the number of nations under it’s influence where they (China) have built and are building deep water ports. Ports capable of berthing big ships, in places that just don’t need “big ships”. It should be more than a little concerning to us.

    “Military-civilian integration is among the goals China set out in its 13th five-year plan for 2016-20. Xi set up a new committee last year to champion integration of civilian and military investment in technology.
    The Chinese military is also extending its presence abroad. It has established a military base in Djibouti, and is expected to establish one in Gwadar Port in Pakistan.Zhang Jie, a researcher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, wrote in an article in 2015 about the concept of “first civilian, later military”, in which commercial ports would be built with the goal of slowly being developed into “strategic support points” that could “assist China in defending maritime channel security and [control] key waterways”.
    Port investments are vehicles through which China can cultivate political influence, constrain recipient countries and build infrastructure meant for military as well as civilian use to facilitate Beijing’s long-range naval operations, according to a report by the Centre for Advanced Defence Studies, a Washington-based think tank.”

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2165341/why-china-buying-ports-worrying-europe

    https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-national-security-implications-of-Chinas-investment-in-the-Gwadar-port-of-Pakistan

    • Tick Tick TocMEMBER

      Lets see – Port of Darwin already sold to China. Tick.
      Member of the board now, is the ex trade minister Andrew Robb. Tick.
      Noted again yesterday as one of the recipients of donations from the Chinese donor…Tick.

  5. Relocate Israel to the NT. That would provide a good northern defence and also sort out the middle east problem.

    • Yes it would. Would be interesting if the whole world got on board how long it would take to replicate Israel in wa or nt. Starting a City from scratch out their would do wonders for the economy

      • Hasn’t there already been quite enough native extinction in WA/NT? Sorry, I forgot – it’s not ‘genocide’ when (((they))) do it…

      • Would obviously have to have the land sold. It wouldn’t be all bad for the current population…….. have started typing about ten times but every time I realize I’m offended someone. Let’s just say I think some lessons would have been learnt from the last “occupation” of land.

      • There’d be a breakout of ROP in outback communities faster than you could say ‘illegal settlement’.

    • That was one of churchills ideas after ww2. Send the israelites to northern WA. I think there was also a plan to send them to alaska – nicknamed the ‘frozen chosen’. but they zionists were only interested in palestine, even though there were palestinians living there.

  6. “It will only need to sail one of these little beauties down the NSW coast and anchor it off Batemen’s Bay to end Australian democracy.”

    For a thousand reasons, an invasion of Australia would be hugely impractical and resource intensive.

    And anyway, one lone aircraft carrier? what nonsense. These guys have a whole host of support craft. A single well placed torpedo would still sink the guy. As if they’d risk x billion dollar piece of machinery on some posturing.

  7. Sic semper tyrannis

    This is great and all – but lets at least have the actual facts – seriously – just the basic facts. I have no interest in promoting China or diminishing the USA – but lets be clear about the basic facts.

    The United States has only 11 aircraft carriers in active service – and only 3 of those were built in the last 20 years.Almost all of their aircraft carriers are now so old that they barely float – but yeah -facts hey.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_of_the_United_States_Navy

    As to China’s aircraft carrier status to make this CLEAR. The First carrier was the Liaoning – the re-purposed former Soviet / Ukrainian vessel.The type 001A is the domestic build ship called the Shandong (rumoured).

    The type referenced in this article is the type 002A – nuclear powered.

    China has built THREE Type 001A shipyards each of which can build and deploy and aircraft carrier in 10 months. The United States has a build and deploy time of well over 5 thats FIVE years.

    China will be building 3 type 001A aircraft carriers every year – in ten years that is 30 aircraft carriers.

    This article is referencing the second generation carriers which are nuclear powered and electromagnetic launch system.

    China won’t catch the technical superiority.

    The US military openly admits China has not only caught up, but that the United States has fallen some way behind China technologically. Its quite disingenuous to claim otherwise. Aircraft carriers aside China equal to the US on planes, helis, tanks, missiles, etc, on while drones China has caught up (thanks Iran) and over taken with their Golden Eagle and Black Dragons, is miles ahead of the US radar with their quantum radars and sonar and is on par with laser cannons etc.
    China is by FAR the world leader in hypersonic scramjet missile technology as well. While their Dong Feng class of missiles is rivaling the recently announced Russian radar evading hypersonic ICBM – both of which the US admits out classes their own capabilities.

    I think the things you need to be far more concerned with on Chinas military are not a carrier sitting outside Sydney Harbour – quite an absurd proposition even something Bolton would not assert – but rather the SPEED of Chinas technical advancement which is just miles ahead of anyone else, but also their sheer production capabilities.

    China can out manufacture and out produce the United States on these types of things on a scale of ten to one. That is where the danger lies.

    • “The US military openly admits China has not only caught up, but that the United States has fallen some way behind China technologically.”
      Funnily enough they admitted the same thing about the Russians in the 80’s and 90’s. History says they were completely full of s#$t then, and probably are now as well.

      • Sic semper tyrannis

        Did they ? When the wall collapsed and the soviet union disintegrated they said their military was falling behind ? What a surprise – seems really similar to China – the worlds largest manufacturer, exporter, economy, population, production capacity etc,etc really, really similar.

        PS.
        Pak -50 is considered a better plane than the F-35 and Russias new hypersonic radar evading ICBM is considered better than anything the US has – By America themselves.

        Yeah – cool comparison.

        Afghanistan used to be a great place too – must mean China’s in trouble. Somehow.

      • No,
        “Reagan feared that the Soviet Union had gained a military advantage over the United States, and the Reagan administration hoped to that heightened military spending would grant the U.S. military superiority and weaken the Soviet economy.[39] Reagan ordered a massive buildup of the United States Armed Forces, ”
        Then the wall collapsed and revealed the US full of shit about russian superiority. I wouldn’t trust any US military assessment of chinese military superiority but nice try.

    • No one cares, or wants to listen to you, your comments will get some cheerleader support by the panda huggers, but little from anyone else… China is crashing, thank Trump for bringing it forward, I am

      • Sic semper tyrannis

        I have no interest in promoting China or trashing America – I am trying to dispel myths not push propaganda. If you do not like facts do not simply recast them as propaganda because they hurt your feelings.

      • Yes you do, your responses are long, and many. You are too much not to be part of the One Belt One Road fan club, or an employee of Huawei

    • If i had a choice of a 5 year to build super carriers vs something spat out in 10 months by a country with near zero experience in that space i know what i would pick.

    • Just to stick to the facts – the US has around 4000 active nukes ready to go, China has around 260. The US has done over 1000 nuke tests over the years, China has done 47. So how many of Chinas 260 will actually work correctly? The US population density is much lower than China, 2 nukes over beijing and shanghai and its game over. At the end of the day, if ww3 broke out, the US has a better chance of survival than China, by a large margin.

    • > The United States has only 11 aircraft carriers in active service – and only 3 of those were built in the last 20 years.Almost all of their aircraft carriers are now so old that they barely float – but yeah -facts hey.

      They have ~10 smaller ones too – mostly used for helicopters IIRC but were previously capable of launching planes and thus presumably can be retrofitted.

    • tl/dr

      nice trolling but there has to be a lot of scrutiny over chinese claims purely because statistics are so frequently juked in that part of the world.

      also, the usa has a pretty good record in world wars: 2-0 – hopefully china isn’t so hubristic that they think they could pull this off.

      “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.” – Admiral Yamamoto – the last Asian gent to rattle the US cage.

      • That’s an interesting point PS. The US has centuries and trillions of dollars of quality productive infrastructure and very high quality technical infrastructure. Its social infrastructure might be a bit dated in places, but it is well built and functional, and its command control structures and social structures are open and robust. China may well have over-reached to give the US a reason to galvanise its community and revalue its social institutions. And even to reconnect with its western and European allies with a shared history of the rule of law, and open democracy.

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-08/chinas-foreign-media-push-a-major-threat-to-democracies/10733068

      • And also, dare we unfashionably say it – not to take the US for granted.

        I remember working (consulting) with a high profile Melbourne medical research institute many years ago. We were looking at funding they had received from the US Federal Government under a global research funding scheme. I was looking for the catch (IP ownership, directed research, control over research direction etc) – there was none, it was purely money for something they felt had social and moral value. Once could be cynical and say well they were seeking a type of influence, but really if that was how they were achieving it, then it’s fairly hard to critique.

    • In the end the propaganda matters to the autocracy and the apparatchiks, because it’s how they control their people, but it matters little in practice in a global context. The befouled waters, streams and rivers, the chronic pollution and heavy-metal/dioxin/plastic, the inequality, the human rights, the poverty these are the things that matter. Eventually more and more time and effort is spent controlling the internal dissent and the propaganda become more and more absurd.

  8. It is a good thing that we have been pursuing Multiculturalism to make our nation stronger and more united – when the Sino threat arrives, I’m sure our new Australians will be falling over themselves to sign up to the Army to fight to defend the cultural values of the nation they moved too…. I’ll be happy for my kids to sign up to Army to fight to defend the rights of Sudanese, Lebanese, Indians and Indonesians to move here and become Australian.

    When you stand for everything, ultimately you stand for nothing.

    • Exactly. If things got loose none of these migrants etc. will stand to defend us. Who will these politically correct fwits and white man hating feminists call upon to save the day? That’s right a white Australian males like my boys. Well they can get farked if they think white man will die again to save the trash cos it won’t be my kids

      • John Howards Bowling Coach

        I agree and disagree to this point Dan. I have a friend who has been a PR here from China for almost 20 years. Grown rich from importing crap from China. Lives a great life, his ethnic Chinese daughter on a scholarship in an elite school and yet he has done nothing to assimilate, speaks rubbish English and refuses to get an Australian passport because he fear being forced into the Army. Now, where does he get the feel he might need to fight in the Army here, clearly not from the locals or local media as he doesn’t engage with locals or the English media. Obviously it’s some garbage put out by other Chinese migrants. BUT the real issue is that he feels no loyalty to the nation that has provided him an extraordinary and rich life and supports his daughter with an excellent education. No, he would not fight for that nation, because like Chinese migrants around the world (look at Malaysia & Indonesia for examples) he refuses to assimilate and sends his daughter to Chinese school regardless of the reality that she hates it and is Australian inside. Little wonder everywhere has a Chinatown, after many generations these people refuse to be locals. No wonder the world often feels invaded.
        Contrast that however with another mate who is from an FNQ Chinese family in Australia for many generations, and are part of the landscape & folklore of several towns in FNQ. Back last century an ancestor of his pushed to be allowed to enlist despite a ban on Chinese in the Army and was a true war hero for our grateful nation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Sing

        The problem with Chairman’s Xi’s world view is that all Chinese are under his direction and need to be ready to fight for the motherland regardless of which passport they carry. It should make us reflect on the true success of multiculturalism and who we want in Australia. I also doubt many others also feel they would/should fight for Australia if it came down to it.

  9. Lovely targets for our subs. Good luck parking it off batesmans bay.
    JORN would see them coming. Not a threat to Australia. But will be part of a successful sea denial strategy in South and east China seas.

    Which gives them room to attack Taiwan.

  10. Its funny because some people will say your being dramatic but through the lens of history it is very possible. With the fact there maybe two supper powers the USA might consider Australia to far away to defend and China would need all the uranium, Iron Ore etc. Dont think China would just steel our resources and let us be. They would subject us to the same oppressive system as their own people and at that point we will have no choice but to give in. Can you imagine how pissed the left will be when they have their internet restricted. And the right will say we tried to fight this with Donald Trump but you were too busy being offended every time he tried to build a wall or sleep will an adult entertainer. To all the Chris Becker’s of this world you must understand that anyone who can imagine this world ten years from now including Donald Trump sees and worries about this scenario.

    • Sic semper tyrannis

      through the lens of history it is very possible.

      China has literally never invaded another country beyond protecting its borders and historical lands.

      The United States has invaded overtly and covertly over 100 countries in a little over a century, combined with its allies almost every country on earth many several times.

      History speaks volumes.

      • An aircraft carrier is not a defensive weapon. It’s only use is to place a friendly airfield on or near unfriendly territory.
        China building so may is a clear indication of intentions.

      • bjw678

        so any nation that ‘builds so many’ should be clearly indicated as an invading power and the level of threat from them should be measured by the earliest made and number of the floating airports?

        or are we supposed to use another metric, e.g. ‘he whom dares changing the status quo is the rogue nation’?

      • Sic semper tyrannis

        @bjw678

        Yes – see my post below regarding the US invasion of Libya and attack on Chinese civilians and infrastructure – China is building these facilities like their Island defences to defend against the United States – thats pretty bloody obvious to any remotely impartial observer.

        Those with an agenda on the other hand……..wonder how much a propaganda piece is worth nowadays.

      • I’m not worried about usa invading and subjecting us to the same laws that their people have that would be no change to my life style. I’m worried about china. Why do usa haters like you believe everything your told. You really believe China never invaded anywhere. Depends what you call china. I think the Tibetans might disagree with you.

      • “protecting its borders and historical lands.”
        No, china just thinks it has historical entitlement to everywhere, so none of it is an invasion.

        Edit. Even Australia
        “Back in the 1420s, the expeditionary fleets of China’s Ming Dynasty reached Australian shores.”

      • I thought China used to consist of many different states with different languages and they all became “China” through many wars. That’s somewhat similar to being invaded. If a larger neighboring country wants a smaller country with it’s own identity and language to absorb and become a part of their country that’s technically an invasion no?

  11. Ronin8317MEMBER

    Air cargo carrrier is pretty much a “sitting duck” these days, you need an escort fleet to provide missile defense. It is a symbol of Chinese hubris more than anything else.

    That being said, all it takes for Australia to surrender is to stop the oil tankers coming to Australia. No strategic reserve, no diesel refinery, 3 months and we will revert to cannibalism.

    • Sic semper tyrannis

      When the United States invaded Libya as part of its global quest to shut down all competing oil supplies to its own in order to drive up prices the Chinese were forced to evacuate 30,000 sovereign citizens and had to use a battle cruiser for the first time in the Med. Of course the US invasion had the dual purpose of allowing the US to destroy the Chinese facilities being built their for Libya. Handy.

      They, the Chinese, declared then and there that their foreign interests would never again be jeopordized by US global imperialism and accelerated their blue water naval capacities – literally the US forced China to rapidly develop their capabilities and in 2012 China announced their Liaoning – retrofitted Ukrainian carrier.

      China is now the worlds largest supplier and owner of global infrastructure as part of the one belt program and their carrier fleets are designed purely for the protection of these assets.

      The assertion posted above is not just absurdity but an outright failure of understanding on what carriers are for in a fumbling attempt at fear mongering paranoia.

      Sloppy at best.

      • “China is now the worlds largest supplier and owner of global infrastructure as part of the one belt program and their carrier fleets are designed purely for the protection of these assets.” – not sure how they can protect the money lent to countries that can’t afford to repay it i.e. Venezuela. China has sunk so much money into overseas projects that they will never see again. The real threat for the CCP will come from within when the average person realizes how their government has screwed them over.

      • Really? want to bet how long they’ll last? How about food, batteries, medicine and all the other stuff we import. Have you ever experienced a multiday blackout? by the second day ssome stuff like batteries is impossible to get. and this is for a single region, not the whole country.

  12. But that is not the important point here. What matters is that this is a floating power projection platform that China is assembling. It will only need to sail one of these little beauties down the NSW coast and anchor it off Batemen’s Bay to end Australian democracy.

    Agreed.
    That’s what all the aircraft carriers do: spread not-democracy.
    Like they did in the past, especially after WW2.
    Korea, Vietnam, Iraq 1, Iraq 2, Libya, Adriatic… to mention a few.

    Monocular anyone?
    I need to redact and adjust my perspective

  13. GunnamattaMEMBER

    Clive Palmer – through a little-known airstrip in the Pilbara capable of taking military aircraft

    There are regular flights/patrols from RAAF Tindal (NT) and RAAF Pearce (WA) which use ADF ‘bare base’ facilities including RAAF Curtin (near Derby), and some pretty serious infrastructure at North West Cape.  Another point worth noting is that any airborne forces lobbing into the Pilbara are a long way from anywhere of significance in Australia, and if they are to remain supported in the Pilbara area are at the end of a seriously long supply chain from somewhere.  If all they want is the gas then it would presumably cheaper just to buy it seeing as Australia is currently selling as a loss leader.

    …….Clive needs to ease off the methamphetamines.

    HnH – But that is not the important point here. What matters is that this is a floating power projection platform that China is assembling. It will only need to sail one of these little beauties down the NSW coast and anchor it off Batemen’s Bay to end Australian democracy.

    A couple of years ago an aircraft disappeared from the map off the coast of WA and the combined sea surveillance capacity of the US, China, Australia and Malaysia (with a load of cameo contributions from Japan, New Zealand etc) could not locate (ostensibly at least) the thing.

    The relative inability to meaningfully know the underwater topography, and the actual position of military assets in any waters is why a generation ago Australia switched its ‘strategic strike’ capacity from the air (and the ancient F111s which had done the role for a generation) to the Collins Class submarines (which have done the role for a subsequent generation).  The subsequent investment in French submarines to replace the Collins class at humungous expense has attracted considerable comment of the ‘why didn’t we buy the Japanese sub off the shelf rather than buy the French submarine which we will spend a generation playing around with to fit in the German propulsion the British surveillance and the US armaments (etc).  It is essentially an investment in the overall theme of things deep in the water being more difficult to locate.

    Now how about just for a moment we pop ourselves in the shoes of a Chinese defence bureaucrat, let alone an Admiral, and float the idea past that person of ‘Lets send an aircraft carrier to spend some quality time off Batemans Bay Australia, in fact let’s make it Jervis Bay where there are really good anchorage facilities at least, and impose some moral suasion on those property speculating, bribe taking, Australia round eyes.  That’ll teach ‘em’ .

    Lets ask ourselves if that person might posit the idea of …….

    ‘That is very Brave Chairman, and an ostentatiously risky proposal for a very very expensive piece of kit, unless we have good access to air support facilities in SE Asia (probably Indonesia and Philippines – which both have grievances with our approach to redrawing maritime borders – and Northern Australia – which already has strategic interdiction facilities operated by our major strategic opponent, and has permanent scope to house redeployed capacity despatched to it at short notice), and very significant scope to establish security for those air support facilities (lets say maybe a battalion sized complement with kit). 

    ‘That’s a lot of risk (and capital outlay) Minister for not much reward (getting Australia to pipe down about whatever is irritating us). When our current strategy of sending a sizeable migrant population to Australia to inflate their real estate prices, gum their roads and bribe their politicians seems to be working quite well and at a fraction of the cost, and has the upside of allowing us a superb money laundering facility for all of our corruption needs, and is additionally a safe pleasant place for a holiday, in vertically integrated capital assets which already send profits back to us, and where politicians of both mainstream sides of their quant political system are already on our payroll.’

    How about if you really want a presence off the coast of southern New South Wales close enough to Canberra to pop into for motivational purposes, then we ask the Australians to give us a tax break to build the ‘eternal peace and love friendship society clubhouse’ at Jervis Bay (where the view is better) and give it to us in perpetuity, in exchange for us promising to buy more dairy powder formula in their supermarkets at some point in the indeterminate future? It is by far the more cost effective solution…..’

    ’….and we could ask Australia to give us some room to rehouse Uighur and Kazakh malcontents, and request that they trial our new social surveillance assets on their own population in exchange for us promising to up lamb import volumes (just a bit)….’ 

    We will have Chinese New year holidays on our public holiday schedules long before the Chinese send an aircraft carrier anywhere near Batemans bay without air support and accompanying military accoutrements of the type it took the British (in an age before air power) and the US a long long time to put in place.

    • You could say all above in one sentence and without euphemism and PC:

      Why would China endanger what it owns in Australia (almost all, and solicitated sale) through inventing a new level of stoopid by military threatening Aus?

      Indeed I agree.

      • How many missiles are on low earth orbit
        say 400k up,
        say 15 minue from authorisation to explosion
        and how many do we own
        that Iridium system is not just up there for phone calls??

      • You reckon anyone could stop trump pushing the launch button if china launched first on any target in the western world?
        China would be radioactive glass for generations.

  14. ever heard of the USS Cole? it’s called asymmetric warfare, a tinnie could take out a guided missle frigate, so their carriers wouldn’t be to much of an issue

  15. Carriers? Everyone is fighting WW2 again. A (big) drone or ballistic missile would send them to the bottom of the sea.

    A China v USA naval battle with contemporary technology is beyond my ken. Although the US and allies would have no difficulty keeping the PLAN inside the South China Sea, this would not help Taiwan much.

    A bare-knuckle fight would involve many different dimensions, notably cyber-warfare disrupting essential services and finance. Lets hope no-one makes the strategic blunder of miscalculating the relative strength of combatants – that is how wars start.

  16. interested party

    Many of the comments above mention the US being the aggressor in the past organised military adventures…and while that may be true….it should also be understood that the USA then is not the same as the USA now. While many of you were sleeping, Trump has been busy dismantling the structures that the old USA was employing worldwide.

    As for china…..I have not been able to verify this paper as yet. It is a transcript of a speech delivered in December, 2005 by Comrade Chi Haotian–the Vice-Chairman of China’s Military Commission. He is now a general.

    https://rense.com/general85/ChinaSpeaks.pdf

    Consider the current status of this bloke……and the fact he was involved in Tiananmen Square…..
    http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Chi_Haotian

    Again, I suggest to you that while un-verified…..it should still be considered. Troubling is an understatement.

    • Yr on to it
      Why have a war and destroy the infrastructure, when economic sanctions are equally effective.
      but as Dirty Harry advised the punk, do you feel lucky ?
      you need solid firepower in reserve cos some just arent quick at risk analysis.

  17. LOL why would they park an aircraft carrier off our coast when a few thousand in ‘donations” and a slap up morning tea is enough to secure our pollies support?

  18. John Howard allowed the Chinese President to make absurd lies in a joint sitting of Parliament that Australia has been been part of their sphere of influence since 1420 – see

    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/02/china-plays-catch-us-aircraft-carriers/

    “Text of the speech by Chinese President Hu Jintao given to federal parliament today:

    The Honourable Neil Andrew, Speaker of the House of Representatives, the Honourable Paul Calvert, President of the Senate, the Honourable Prime Minister John Howard, distinguished members of the federal parliament of Australia, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    I am delighted to meet with you today, and address such a distinguished audience at the Australian parliament building.

    Let me begin by expressing, on behalf of the Chinese government and people, my best wishes to you and, through you, to the courageous and hard-working Australian people.

    Though located in different hemispheres and separated by high seas, the people of China and Australia enjoy a friendly exchange that dates back centuries.

    The Chinese people have all along cherished amicable feelings about the Australian people.

    Back in the 1420s, the expeditionary fleets of China’s Ming Dynasty reached Australian shores.

    For centuries, the Chinese sailed across vast seas and settled down in what they called Southern Land, or today’s Australia.

    They brought Chinese culture to this land and lived harmoniously with the local people, contributing their proud share to Australia’s economy, society and its thriving pluralistic culture. ”

    It was this speech (which was lauded by our politicians when it should have been seen as a veiled threat to our future – note how they claim prior rights to Oz and the right to move here) plus the way our govt was hiding from the public the importation of illegal mainland Chinese sourced drugs into Australia while Howard was PM, that I first realised that the takeover of Oz by China was well in progress.

    Things have progressed as one might expect and there is very little hope left, except possibly if One Nation wins office, and develops a nuclear strike capability (which is well within our means if we stop wasting money on the Big Oz/population replacement program). Both the ALP and the Libs are just the two sides of the same coin and will continue to sell us out.

    The voyages that the Chinese overlord was referring to was the BS written by Gavin Menzies, which even Chinese scholars agree is factually nonsense but serves as useful propaganda by the Chinese govt and its supporters.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavin_Menzies

  19. Well, as fanciful as this clip is, if Clive can pull a few votes away from federal Lab/Lib then from what I can gather Australia’s democratic process will be proportionally less prone to corruption, somewhat, perhaps…. lol. #straya #TrumpWannabe

  20. USA has more carrier strike groups than the rest of the world combined.

    Building and operating carrier strike groups is incredibly expensive, and incredibly complex with a steep learning curve. The USA has over 80 years experience.

    I am not saying China can’t compete eventually. But don’t underestimate the difficulties involved, the time required, and the expense involved.

  21. This whole thing is fanciful. If Australia spent it’s money on defensive missiles, instead of submarines that are to be rolled out over 50 years and F35’s that don’t look to be value for money, you would have more than enough to send the entire Chinese navy to the bottom of the sea and then some.