Bernie Sanders enters US presidential race

Go Bernie! What an immense relief to see a candidate that understands being “left” and winning elections is about addressing class politics NOT identity politics.

Houses and Holes
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  1. #feelthebern
    Lets see if the Dems learned from the last election. Surely their bitching and whinging over the past two years is going to pay off.

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      I am desperately afraid they will find a way to muck it up. The debates, probably.

      Just like Shorten.

      • He has a socialist agenda, make no mistake, scares the established Democrats silly who I think, realistically, will never allow him to run…. but he is no fool! And I agree with H&H, China would rather Trump than Sanders, he is a true ideologue. Trump at the end of the day wants a deal… Sanders does not. Which does make him more dangerous.

      • In fact, I would go a step further… he is an old time Communist egalitarian, from the Post WWII sense, similar to when the state of Israel was re-established. Peoples from all parts of the world, came, poor as church-mice, many escaped from a genocidal manic – and what did they establish? They tried at least to establish heaven on earth, total egalitarian flat structures, women men worked in the fields, shared raising each others kids, all decisions on the kibbutz (had mates who lived on these, no money, but they bloody loved it) had to by majority decision, discussed by all. That individual life was willing sacrificed for the greater/collective good. Bloody tough as nails.

        it was an ideal that could never work in reality IMHO, but Israel still hold to that tradition, largely.

        Berine Sanders believes in this kind of world view, this greater good paradigm, free health care, national service. Getting people back to work, that citizenship requires active sacrifice, that all work for the collective. All work, no one gets left behind…

        It was something the world needed post WWII, to mitigate the horrors of what the worst humans can do to each other.

        Seriously, can a Bernie Sanders USA be more socialist than Communist China??? Its no wonder this guy freaks the Chinese out so much. He is a man lost both in time and translation!!! A political Hot Tub time machine….

        I just cannot seem him getting up. Too many vested interests aligned against him. They will use his age against him, and you can see some now saying he is senile… he is past it. Too dangerous to vote him in, etc. etc.

      • I would add, the commentators saying those ageism comments about Sanders are actually Democratic… NOT Republican!

        Trump totally shook up the Republican establishment, it took them (the GPO) a while to realise that those voters they relied on for decades were not wedded to the Party. That they were looking for something else.

        Could it happen again to the other side of politics? Seriously, I think it could…

      • Sanders would be very close. Ignore the tags of Left and Right, everyone politically in those times believed in something greater than themselves, because they had just witnessed a catastrophic failure of human nature. The UN rose from the ashes, everyone swore they would be better than their parents. Collectivism was second nature. Bernie Sanders is the man defined by that age…

        Does he appeal to the individualist, who wants to be defined by their sexuality, not by what they do in life or achieve? I am not so sure. Sanders is greater good man, that the individual is subservient to the greater collective. Serving ideals greater than the here and now… Sanders is a man who would appeal to my grand parents, not my parents, and I am not so sure myself either.

        In any case, he is nothing like the current Democratic Party. This is the critical difference, Sanders is not advocating for the greater role of the state, I don’t know the man, but he is not preaching the saviour for todays ills is more government, more regulation. I suspect he doesn’t (listen to what he actually says) trust big government. He has said so time and time again. What he is advocating something entirely different, that society should be fair, that all citizens are entitled to minimum standards of living, healthcare, jobs, education, and he is big on renewables, like seriously big!

        But they will never let him run. He could/would have beaten Trump… in hindsight Hillary never had a chance.

      • RT …

        The fact has been noted many times that you won’t see a non legacy party change anything, just as both the old Goldwater et al conservatives got bush whacked by the far right neoliberals, the Dems got whacked by the Clintion Third Way democrats. If that’s the case, the change will be the same as before when some like say – Sanders, Warren [moderate republican], or AOC change the dynamics from with in the party. Don’t see the GOP ending its death march to the hard right ever …. on a mission from goat ….

      • Well in a way you and I agree. Sanders is far too Left to ever run for the Democratic Party. To even to have a chance, he has to run like Trump… and be the outsider.

      • Trump’s politics, ironically, were far more to the Left than most of the Republican challengers, maybe that’s why he won?

        I think society is changing, or is awaiting change??? Not sure

      • Disagree and don’t know on what grounds you believed there is a shared prospective. Sanders as I said polled strongly to win against Trump, even in flyover country, contra to Clinton e.g. Sanders had a stronger base nationaly than Trump or Hillary.

        Clinton used undemocratic actions in the DNC to throw Sanders under the bus, more than Obama did his base after winning. Now that game has been played and dirty laundry aired don’t expect it to work as effectivly as last time – if at all. That’s not to mention all press out now WRT MMT or non mainstream orthodox economics penetrating the social consciousness e.g. a year is a long time in politics.

        Less we forget Sanders out funded the DNC, and established a bigger data base.

  2. matthew hoodMEMBER

    Wonder if Bernie has learnt some lessons from his last attempt. If not he could read up on King O’Malley.

  3. Personally I’m more interested in what Gary Johnson does, if he can find his way back on to the Republican ticket than things could get really interesting.
    I get the feeling that Gary has the gut instinct and political know how to successfully leverage this America-First movement that Trump has pioneered.
    If Ron Paul doesn’t run again AND Trump is forced to retire for health reasons, than the Republican party will be looking for a candidate that can hold on to the Libertarian side of the Republican party vote and Gary is custom made for the job.

  4. To be fair Elizabeth Warren has a very similar agenda to Bernie (ie. pull wealth distribution back toward workers and strengthen the social safety net) and has been hammering on these messages since before she entered politics. I think Warren being identified as some sort of Hilaryesque SJW comes more from the fact that she’s female and claimed Native American heritage.

    • I think years of Trump referring to her as Pocahontas has pretty much killed her chances of being taken seriously.

  5. This time around the core Democratic establishment will have suffered 3 years of concerted assault from class warfare leftists. I think Bernie will not only have significant grassroots support, as per last time around, but will hopefully have greater support from within the party itself…. or at least, career DNC politicians will be sensitive to the precariousness of their position and shy away from Bernie hostility.

  6. He is 77 turning 78 in September. There is at least a 25% probability that he will die of natural causes in any given year. Lets not count our chickens before they actually survive to the election.
    Anyway i prefer Tulsi, way less of a warmonger than Bernie.

    • Yes, he’s too old. In fact many of the yank pollies are too old. I know a few septuagenarians who ten or twenty years ago were as sharp as a whip, as fit as mallee bulls and full of vigour. Not so much now, they are all progressively stepping back. I suppose one of the ancients could pull a trumpy or a second term Keating and be part-timers. Anyway their generation is past tense, we need the next several generations to hop on and take the reins.

      • Yeah, Bernie is awesome but due to his age I think he should have stayed out of it and thrown his political capital into backing Elizabeth Warren instead.

      • This is true but there is one more perspective: Bernie has nothing to lose and if there is any form of power the figure of the US president may have, he could be using it as if there’s no political risk for his career.

    • Age isn’t really a negative here. He has a much better chance of uniting the population behind reform simply because he has held his ground for a long time and earned that respect. Trump was a vote of desperation, in the face of a party duopoly that was otherwise completely corporate owned. Bernie’s challenge isn’t Trump, it’s staring down that corporate ownership within his own party, as he completely understands.

  7. There is a large scale exodus of people from the leftist States like California and New York. It may be that even the Democrats are getting tired of being taxed to death.

    • nope, he mails them USPS surface to contiguous states and for $1 (plus tax in Cali) in additional fees to the rest of the world.

      • The Traveling Wilbur

        Do you think he knows the two mutant states the domestic airlines keep trying to hide exist yet?

  8. as someone wise on #fintwit mentioned if you worry about Trump be careful what you wish for becasue the next Pres going to be far far worse (whether left or right) (4th turning)

    • I think what’s happening now is far bigger than a US centric 4th turning – most if the West is now aged, decadent and divided. I’ll be surprised if the world is not in another dark age within 150 years.

      • agree completely. I personally believe it is the world (or at least western world) that is at the turning. I also, as in another post on MB today, wonder to myself if China and Xi were too early in shouting out their intentions

      • Hanei – I believe civilisation has cycles in cycles, like all things. And yes, the Chinese have played their hand too early – but this has some historical precedence when you look at prior civilizational collapse and rises, they are never a neat 1 down, 1 up affair. The Sumerian Empire survived into he Egyptian, Egyptian into Greek, Greek into Roman, Roman into Western and so on.

  9. Are you SURE Bernie doesn’t just capitulate on every new edict from the culture-war Left of the party? I’d be glad to know if he does in fact speak out against it, but I doubt it from what I know so far.

    For example, is he so clear about the working classes interests that he’d require a secure southern border to stop the floods of coolie labor? I don’t think so. He could be making a cause celebre about that now, if he was sincere.

    • Yea, it’s the only issue I have with Bernie – his economic politics are fine but he does capitulate to the identity politics and open borders stuff because he is a bit of a bleeding heart.

      What happened to all the socialist/workers leaders that weren’t bleeding hearts? I suppose they went the dodo along with tough unions. Bit sad though, we need some conservative, nation first socialists back – not all the bloomin’ cultural Marxists.

      I think the culture war has become more important than the class war for most voters in the US (perhaps across all of the West) – which means Trump will probably take 2020 because he is the only one really speaking out against political correctness.

      • danielhoeyMEMBER

        Sanders has explicitly spoken out against open borders. He suggests that it is a Kock brothers proposal.

  10. Oh no. Lets hope he gets nowhere near the presidency.
    He’s a Trainwreck

    Anyone talking down technological progress because it “benefits private enterprise” clearly doesn’t like human progress.

      • Can’t build pyramids without whipping slaves. If Bernie doesn’t realise that, he’s the oldest idealist ever.

      • The Traveling Wilbur

        Perhaps we should ask him if he remembers why the builders of Stonehenge said they were spending all that money on it?

  11. I would love to see Trump run in 2020 and win; simply for the fact that the Leftists and the Mainstream media would entirely lose their collective minds.
    I have to confess that I’d love to see a nice big border wall go up.
    After all, if walls are good enough for the rich and powerful and privileged gated communities then a country should have one too.
    I think Bernie is far too left and in some respects far too sensible (in his more equitable society policies) to win in 2020.
    He is also too old and too ugly for the majority of voters to warm to.

    • Trump is polling better with independents than Republicans, last I read – which is why I think most independent voters in the US are anti-PC, anti-globalist populists.

      I would also like to see the wall – it’s become symbolic of the West opposing global elitism more than having any real world purpose now. But symbols are important.

  12. Bernie wants a “job guarantee” instead of UBI.

    Andrew Yang wants UBI, along with the federal opposition leader of India. USA has a whopping 325 million people and factories are increasingly automated. Saying “job guarantee” is like saying “build infrastructure” to deal with mass immigration – it is basically impossible.

    Besides, how do you stop foreign “students” from taking all of the new jobs added by the “job guarantee”?

  13. Hey don’t you know they based a movie on him?….Weekend at Bernie’s….Trump used this good ol prop before against crooked Hillary, worked well i say…

  14. Class politics, identity politics. All the same. All based on creating hatred and division. All destructive. All borne of the same playbook and all part of the same plan. 250m dead and counting. How many more before we realise it’s a trap?

  15. bernie would gets trounced in a election or primary due to non-white democrats yawning at him.

    the black turnout was muted even for hillary, and she and her husband spent 35+ years kissing up and pandering to the black community.

    bernie has a long ways to go before he masters the new identity politics of the left; he still believes that economic class is more important than race. (lol) dude is stuck in the 1970s. this isnt how politics are done anymore if they ever were.

    • ID politics is a social libertarian agenda and not a traditional left anything, more moderate republican, some seem confused about the overton window red shift thingy …

      I mean say AOC was on Ellen and started talking about progressive taxation for over 10M on individuals and CGT on idle money….. Ellen would have a nana …

  16. For the record Sanders polled strongly to win against Trump, that the DNC and its appointed to be anointed Hillary – rigged the democratic party congress, then she said deplorables w/ a side of the GOP unable to find a warm blooded body to run against Trump.

    Do many here understand that the third way Dems are actually moderate republicans, which makes the GOP the far right, and Sanders is still right to the traditional democrats before Bill Clinton.

  17. Bernie folded like a cheap suit when he could of (should of?) challenged Hillary and the way everything was rigged in her favour. To then endorse her was a joke and a clear indication of weakness,Trump v Bernie would have been a much more interesting proposition.