Comment rules

Some of you need to reread the below.

RULES OF THIS SITE

YOU MUST READ AND UNDERSTAND THE FOLLOWING BEFORE POSTING A COMMENT

1. There are general and specific terms and conditions which apply to use of this site. If you do not agree to those terms, please do not post anything on the site.

2. In particular, you must acknowledge and agree to abide by all rules of this site. This site is for information and discussion of topics by those who have agreed to abide by all terms and conditions.

3. Postings on this site are not monitored but any concerns should be addressed to the web master at [email protected] giving full details. We reserve the right to remove any material at any time for any reason.

4. You must familiarise yourself with these terms and conditions and comply with them and always respect the rights of others. If you have not already done so, please read the  general terms of use and the specific terms and conditions which relate to the posting of material.

General Terms and Conditions relating to postings

The following rules are obligatory on any person wishing to post any material whatsoever on this or any associated site.

  1. No material shall be posted which is defamatory or abusive.
  2. No material may be posted which is obscene or vulgar.
  3. No material may be posted which is in contempt of court, in breach of any privacy provisions, in breach of any confidence or court order or which otherwise violates any law.
  4. No material may be posted which threatens, intimidates or harasses any person.
  5. No material may be posted which is in breach of the copyright of any person or entity or which constitutes any breach of trademark or other intellectual property right or which is deceptive or misleading.
  6. No material may be posted which involves or promotes any illegal activity.
  7. No material may be posted which contains any virus or other damaging material.
  8. No material may be posted which is in breach of the rights of any person.
  9. No material may be posted which is offensive or involves unlawful discrimination against any person or group on the basis of age, gender, religion, race or ethnicity, disability, sexuality or any other attribute whereby state or Australian laws may be breached.
  10. By posting any material you thereby grant to this website and its operator the irrevocable right and royalty free licence to display, publish or otherwise deal with such material in any form, edited or otherwise and by any means or technology.
  11. You undertake not to impersonate another person or entity and that all facts stated in any posting shall be accurate and that all opinions shall be honestly held.

General Terms and Conditions of this website

  1. The site operator is not responsible for any user-created content on the site unless stated in writing.
  2. The operator reserves the right to remove any material at any time without giving any reason.
  3. You must not post material which would constitute a breach of trade mark or copyright or which would otherwise infringe any confidentiality, privacy or other restriction on use.
  4. Any links to other websites are solely for the interest of users and are not endorsed by the operator of this site unless expressly stated.
  5. Any advertisements, online shopping or associated offers which are not made by the operator are only links provided for the benefit of users of the site. You agree that the operator shall not be responsible or liable in any way for any dealing which you have and any claim that may arise may only be made against the independent advertiser.
  6. No warranties of any nature are given by the operator of this site including warranties implied by law, except to such extent as any warranty cannot be excluded.

We will be rolling out a new comments section with many more self-management options for users in the near future.

David Llewellyn-Smith
Latest posts by David Llewellyn-Smith (see all)

Comments

  1. You undertake not to impersonate another person or entity and that all facts stated in any posting shall be accurate and that all opinions shall be honestly held

    There goes The Horrible Scott Morrison then… unless he is who he says he is!

    No material may be posted which involves or promotes any illegal activity.

    There goes Reusa too…

  2. I understand that these rules were in place from day one so nothing changes – this is an explanation that when you breech the rules there are consequences. Most likely this is a response to the racist abuse on the Indian Subprime story earlier this week. Frankly, trolls are a waste of time and energy and need to be culled as best as possible.
    I have no issue with this and its a long bow to suggest that this is somehow heading to the New Limited or Fairfax/Nine domain.
    You need to read comments sections in their respective publications, the rules listed are aimed to try and reduce the noise that the MSM feeds on.

  3. In the last few weeks I’ve read posts threatening Jess Irvine with violence, yesterday there was a racist epithet to indigenous people and countless half veiled racist posts by trolls or members themselves. If some rules around decorum and respect upset you, there are some darker part of the web you can use your “free speech” to be a racist, misogynist fool with anonymous impunity.

    David – the comments had become a cesspit – you need to make these T&Cs part of membership acceptance or creation of new accounts. The comments do reflect on the site and were a major reason in me cancelling my membership. If it improves i may return as a paying member.

    I’m certain David and Leith will continue to provide frank and unfiltered analysis – without being turkeys – try it yourself.

      • For what it’s worth UE I don’t think the comments section is too bad. You pretty quickly learn which posts to scroll past and the satire accounts are good fun. Genuine trolls seem to get pretty quickly hounded out of the site.

      • If you could incorporate a “flag for review by mod” button that would be great. Requiring a separate email to be sent is really putting too much of an onus on the user to police for you. There is quite a lot of genuinely nasty racist (in the real, not the pearl clutching, mass immigration justifying sense) stuff appearing and always the background hum of sexist stuff. I’m pretty sure this reduces your market and undercuts the influence of this site.

    • Oh Christ.

      I don’t get it, you cancelled your membership because you didn’t like what people were saying in the comment section, yet continue to read the comment section? How does not paying for it make a differences?

      • It makes it worse. We cannot afford to employ someone to do the tedious tasks like monitoring comments. As the rules say, we do not monitor.

        I get so many emails complaining about comments gone to moderation or automatically marked as spam. It’s a no win situation for us.

      • I’ve invested in the MB fund – always a better way….

        And yes i do sympathise with you LvO.. and I dont always agree with everything MB puts out there.

        Its good that we can hold two separate but conflicting thoughts in our head simultaneously sometimes gents.

        Peace out.

      • I’ve invested in the MB fund – always a better way….

        I was trying to think of a suitable adjective for that smug little bit of sensible-on-a-stick. Vapid is good.

        I think that you will find that one of the big attractions of MB is that you actually get some real idea about what people think. There is some noise, but overall enough diversity to make it interesting. For my part, I don’t care if people go on a post about immigrants from the sub continent speculating on real estate and give them some stick. It is just more real information. You can bleach the comments sections of online blogs all you want, but it will not change how people see things – it just makes it go underground. Balance is the most important thing. The comments on ZeroHedge have become so wack that there is almost no information there at all. MB is not like that – you get a lot of sensible informed comment (and a bit of noise).

        There is a point made by Jordan Peterson that sums this up – to think and reason, you have to risk offending people. Everyone has different ways of being offended. For example, I am constantly offended by smug and vapid nothingburgers popping up in the media with a little dose of hit and run virtue signalling. Perhaps that is just me.

      • DarkMatter – glad you could think of a word – smug was a better fit than vapid, but I was simply offering a counterpoint to the view that cancelling my sub left MB worse off and that I’m not helping the “cause” financially.

        As for the rest of your comment- alt right buzzword bingo.. wheeling out Jordan Petersen in an effort to appear intellectual is the refuge of our contemporary collective pseudo psychological nausea.

        Get a lobster up ya mate and keep fightin to keep it “real”

      • Christ, that is a poor reply!

        Rather than “wheeling out Jordan Peterson” I would say I quoted one of his points which is central to this discussion. He said it, so the right thing to do is to give him credit. I have no need to attempt to appear intellectual. What I do is make a reasoned argument, and support it if required. The argument should stand on its own merit.

        On the other hand, you have descended to wool headed swipes about alt-right and lobsters which have no reason or logic to them at all. You may recall that lobster mockery provided a very poor outcome for Cathy Newman. It is not clear to me exactly what the alt-right is – I have heard the term, but can’t pin it down. I generally avoid being in any group if at all possible.

        The stewards of the MB fund may be alarmed to discover that some of their “investors” (you didn’t actually say you were an investor, but implied that you were) are in fact, wool heads with disorderly minds.

      • rob barrattMEMBER

        @DM
        Hit and run virtue signalling – absolutely. Several names come to mind straight away.
        Sure sign of VS activity? 1) Label someone pejoratively 2) Provide a criticism but never a solution (in case it were subject to criticism…). The word narcissist comes to mind..

      • Balance is the most important thing.

        No it’s not.

        Accuracy and objectivity are the most important things.

        “Balance” is just the meaningless and vapid Faux News insistence that there’s no such thing as facts and the reality of every issue is some vaguely defined “middle point” between two ostensibly opposing opinions.

        The real world isn’t “balanced”. It doesn’t matter how strong an opinion some people have that climate change is just a great big international, multi-generational conspiracy, it’s not.

        There is a point made by Jordan Peterson that sums this up – to think and reason, you have to risk offending people.

        But Peterson’s dishonesty is that few people actually disagree with that point, while he continually tries to paint it as endemic. The increasingly commonplace issue Peterson studiously ignores, if not implicitly supports, is that offense bereft of any reasoning or productive constribution, but largely – if not entirely – for the purpose of offense (ie: “deadcatting”, or “triggering” in more common parlance), is in and of itself useful and laudable behaviour to be advocated and encouraged.

    • Pot, meet kettle.
      Rule 11: You undertake not to impersonate another person or entity.

      Assuming I’m not struck down by lightning in the near future.

    • As a Christian, I do not appreciate this impersonation of my beloved Christ. Please do the needful and stop.

      • An ignore feature would probably solve a lot of the complaints about other peoples comments with minimal effort on your part.

      • I’ve seen a model where a small band of volunteer admins moderate comments …. and be very effective. Not only in moderation, but in creating a small group of trusted community. You have the likes of gunna etc here – grant a small bit of admin power to 3 or 4 trusted vollies – i know we have day jobs but it will work. (No I’m not a vollie!)

      • Not allowing comments on immigration related pieces is a quick fix. That’s where the worst in people tends to come out. It wouldn’t be popular but it’d do more in the short term for cleaning up the comments than a moderator could.

      • Not allowing comments on immigration related pieces is a quick fix. That’s where the worst in people tends to come out. It wouldn’t be popular but it’d do more in the short term for cleaning up the comments than a moderator could.

        If they didn’t allow any comments on immigration related pieces, there’d hardly be any comments at all. 😉

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        “Not allowing comments on immigration related pieces is a quick fix”

        Not allowing ANY comments OR discussion on immigration is exactly what the Agenda setting mainstream press has ALWAYS done.
        Please don’t become another “Gardian” MB

  4. Comments add a huge amount of value to the site but of course some limits are needed.

    Perhaps limiting non members and 30 day trial accounts to one post per article and three posts total per day would help.

      • I missed all the fun in there.. wonder what was posted? Still it just proves our new migrant friends are pushing land values up via speculation and greed on their behalf, do we really want that sort of migrant? I know they are aided and abetted by our Goverment, Banks etc.. but who is going to pay for this stupidity ultimstely? I’ll bet us tax payers do and so we have to ask what is the benefit to importing more of this class of people? Of course our migration forms cannot have a box that says “are you a speculator?” However it’s just a by product of too much immigration, too soon and from 1 culture – instead of the multicultural meme were sold we have been importing from 2 cultures mostly and both seem to have pumped our Ponzi harder than anytime before.

        That’s my take on it, if only we truly had a free market, it would be fun to watch. I’m just worried we don’t have anything resembling a free market.

        So I can somewhat understand why that post went crazy… A lot of people are probably very angry.

      • The comments to that post have been removed, so probably a threat of 18C, maybe. I didn’t get around to looking at that one yesterday, so I don’t know what was said in the comments.

      • Migrants like Pete Wargent, Louis Christopher… those migrants Gavin? I can only assume that these are the “friends” you speak of

        Or..

      • It’s the trial membership trolls who are the worst.

        Yes members also overstep the line but they have put money down so have an incentive to behave. I expect they do, once warned.

        Whereas the trial membership trolls just respawn.

      • The bottom line is this:
        If you criticise any minority group you’re motivated by racism, sexism etc, however, if you criticise a ‘caucasian’ male for behaving like a scumbag, you’re welcome.

        That about sums up where western society is now placed. It’s called ‘progress’.

  5. A karma system may help. It allows the community to monitor itself. Comments with bad karma are hidden by default but can be seen if the reader wants to.

  6. I’m a subscriber, very rarely comment, but read MB daily as much for the entertainment from the comments as for the information in the posts themselves!

  7. MB in its current form is unique and should be listed as a National Treasure. The comments section alone is worth the price of membership. But if the proprietors mess with it they will likely lose a lot of those posters who would make it so. Given that, why don’t youse smart ars#s out there who are non-subscribers cough up and help the boyz save up so they can buy their next bit of undervalued capital city real estate like the rest of youse are no doubt doing.

  8. It would be interesting to see the % of comments removed from this page, compared to normal.

  9. TailorTrashMEMBER

    MB with out the comments would be like flat warm beer …,…there , now I have offended all the poms …
    …. expect a stern letter from the high commission …

  10. id strongly recommend against resorting to an overzealous moderating style. ive seen many a good e community destroyed by that kind of action; it ends up driving away a lot of the members by killing off the place’s vibe, just to appease a few whingers (who would always find something to whinge about anyway).

    • kiwikarynMEMBER

      I’ve seen that happen too. Once a site becomes vanilla, people get bored and stop reading. Sure you have to draw the line somewhere – nasty personal attacks on posters comes to mind – but its not conducive to a flourishing community if people have to censor themselves in every post for fear of saying something that may offend someone else’s politically correct sensibilities.

      • That line is for HnH and UE to draw, though.
        They’ve been doing this for several years, so I suspect that they have a pretty good where the right place to draw it is, or they’d already gone out of business.

      • The level of blatant coarse racism has been climbing. As have personal sexist attacks on journalists. If you don’t like what they write comment on that.

      • The level has been climbing.
        Possibly a response to increasing resentment in the community? Maybe worth noting because if it’s true it’s only going to get worse, and I would expect MB to have less of a problem with this than the average.

      • Racism or dismissal of certain cultures? There is a difference.

        Indeed. In the same way there’s a difference between a square and a rectangle.

  11. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    Whats the MB position on political party spruking?
    Am I still allowed to try and convince those not yet in the Labor party, to stop being such lazy zc as Scum bags?
    https://www.alp.org.au/joinlabor

    No issues provided it isnt racist sexist bigoted or trolling & doesnt clog the comments and isnt irrelevant. Being a member helps. For all your spam management needs please do not hesitate a second to contact [email protected].

      • Genuine question: Are you part of a minority/marginalised/excluded cohort in Australia? I’m not. But I think if I were I would find the various “-isms”, especially those that target my particular cohort, pretty offensive. What’s a rational response for me is probably not what I would expect for the other.

  12. Firm believer in the saying that offence is given freely to those stupid enough to take it.

    IMO this is a bit of an overreaction. The Indian comments (I made some of them) were way overblown and pretty accurate re: fraud and family reunion/healthcare scams but meh, each to their own. Agree with stagmal, all you’ll do is drive it underground. There is bad behaviour in the migration program that needs to be talked about.

    IMO Censorship is the first stage of killing your platform but hey, it’s UE and HnH’s show so they can do what they want. I don’t agree with everything they say but I agree with a lot they say, that’s politics.

    I’d prefer dangerous discourse with hurt feelings than becoming another vacuous echo chamber.

    • Relax. The intention is not to sterilise comments. Just to keep them on right side of civil as best we can given they are not monitored.

      Note that the above rules are not new.

      • Fair enough. The jousting and un PC banter in the comments section is worth the price of membership.

      • hope so HnH ………. I mean, really – what the hell is going on???? ……… when did it become the case that people actually believe that if you say ‘you can’t say that’ you stop people from thinking it ………. repression of speech and attempted imposition of ideas is the one, truly definite way a society will guarantee support for extremist views and actions ….. and it is more than time people were able to see a racist/homophobic/sexist/etc etc without the knee jerk ‘delete’ response ……….. why not call it out for the BS it is and in doing so maybe, just maybe, the writer of the ‘unacceptable’ comment might rethink. If not, so what? At least others (presumably or maybe, the majority) will have a view into thinking that they might not otherwise come across …….. and again, maybe, just maybe, the ‘informed majority’ might begin to realise that there is another (previously thought to be unacceptable) view that should be taken into account ???

        None of this is to be read as to excuse the outright illegal (defamation, breach of sub judice etc) ….. as to the ‘feelings’ industry rules and regs (and their tender sensibilities) – stuff ’em ………. let a thousand flowers bloom

  13. Im a tradie in a male dominated industry with a thick skin and am as anti-PC as the next guy. However there are plenty of comments I have read that overstep the bounds of what’s reasonable, some triple jump over it.

    Some of the posts that are disgustingly sexist, overtly racist, or threatening people with violence are just unnecessary and do damage to the message that the MB team are trying to get out there.

    Sites like this are a lighthouse in the dark of what is the cesspit of Australian political discourse. We need them to flourish if anything is going to change in this country. I’m not advocating mass censoring because I learn as much from the comments as I do from the articles. However some pruning around the edges is neccesary if this site is to maintain it’s integrity.

    • Excellent comment Karl. I don’t care what you do for a crust- like you, I move in circles where language is often “strong” and it doesn’t bother me. But some of the (admittedly rare) disgusting comments that bob up here from time to time is appalling and certainly detracts from the broad appeal of MB. Moderation at a sensible level is long overdue

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Ive never seen a direct threat of violence leveled at anyone on MB in the 6 or 7 years Ive been here.

    • I see it an even more basic level than that.
      HnH and UE are like owners of a bar or restaurant who set standards of behaviour according to the kind of clientele they want to attract. Anyone can disagree with their strategy but if they believe that upholding certain standards furthers their cause that’s their prerogative as business owners – claiming they don’t have the right to set the tone in their own establishment is a form of fascism.

      • What if they don’t like black people? Or want to allow smoking?
        Bar or restaurant already can’t do those, even if that is the clientele they want.

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      ^^^ Comment of the day.

      But hey. Screw that. I’ll scab 5 hours a week for free. Every week. More than happy to donate my time doing that if there’s a genuine need and management can’t afford real employees to do the work.

      I’m even vaguely qualified for it (definitely to handle the resulting tidal wave of complaints).

      But seriously, spambot, H&H, whoever… you have all my (genuine) contact info. More than happy to do this. Gratis. Regularly… And I’m sure I’m not the only one. Especially if it means fewer restrictions on the platform going forward.

      So please, ring my bell if that sounds useful.

      • But hey. Screw that. I’ll scab 5 hours a week for free. Every week. More than happy to donate my time doing that if there’s a genuine need and management can’t afford real employees to do the work.

        Yeah, I’d throw in a few hours a week as well (thought they’re a bit scarce at the moment).

  14. scottb1978MEMBER

    The general rule of thumb at work is, as long as somebody laughs then you’re all good.

  15. curl of the burl

    Love it. We don’t need nanny. Freedom of speech. Let people be adults and decide what they want to see with the new options. If only the rest of big tech would learn ….

  16. MB moderating comments could lead to a much needed short term productivity uptick for the Morrison government.

  17. rob barrattMEMBER

    I’ve had one blog deleted. It was when I let rip at the NBN. Couldn’t help it. 6 weeks with no internet. Problem? 5 minute repair to external cable required…… And when they did finally turn up to fix it (after hearing from the telecomms ombudsman) they left it one meter below the statutory height above the road….. Oh, and when they send you 3 cable modems instead of one.. you know something’s vaguely not right in the workflow area…. (add suitable collective noun here)

  18. I’ll be cancelling my subscription. Sorry MB. As others have said, it was good to actually have honest discussion – whether we all agreed with the comments, or not.

    To post a very loaded headline about ‘Indian Speculators’, and then shut down comments when people make comments about the perceived behaviours and cultures of said group, is sad.

  19. I came here (and eventually joined) for the sensible-centre articles & for the higher quality comments & anecdotes. But I do think the comments infrastructure could be improved & I look forward to see what you have planned. (It’s probably too late but my top requests would be 1. Ignore feature, 2. Make commenting on older articles less useless / “into the void” i.e. the sidebar mentioned above.)
    Keep up the good work!

  20. 98% of comments on MB made by males, so what do people expect?

    Great thread to read though. This is approaching Zerohedge standard.