Weekend Reading: 28-29 July 2018

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Unconventional Economist
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  1. driving to parkes tomorrow just so i can go to a pizza hut with the works bar

    why the hell did pizza hut get rid of a lot of its dine in restaurants its a disgrace

    also am i first

    i’m first arent i

    suck eggs the lot of ya

    • Second. #hateyou.

      There is a guy that goes around taking photos of old Pizza Hut restaurants. Can’t believe I’m linking to SBS.

      https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/culture/article/2016/05/31/capturing-second-lives-pizza-hut-restaurants

      I figured that would be something you would do? That and old Sizzler restaurants. Speaking of which I recall the 1 in Melbourne near Brighton on Nepean Hwy when it first opened for nights on end. People would queue to get in, then it just went out of business.

      I went to 1 in Fairfield NSW a couple of years ago. It was horrible. Food quality was atrocious. I thought I’d never see another Sizzler and I couldn’t believe it was still in business. I don’t think it will be much longer either.

      Re: Pizza Hut though, the brand will always remind me of Gleaming the Cube with Christian Slater..that Kent was cool in the 80s and early 90s..

      https://youtu.be/thl3qqzBmBA

    • Congrats on being first stagmal!

      La Porchetta actually charge $2 extra for eating in! So I guess that is why Pizza Hut got rid of eating in. But then Hungry Jack’s do not charge extra for eating in – so you have a great point, stagmal.

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      Mining Bogan,
      To elaborate on your yesterday’s correction of the investors idea that the industrial revolution started after 1890’s.
      Contrary to our fictional history books, modern industry started in the Zaan district of the Netherlands with the patent of the crankshaft in 1593 by Stevin, although the crankshaft has been around since 202BC Han dynasty including 1206 Ismail Jazari’s contribution. Anyhow the Beemister idea was soon overshadowed by Cornelis Corneliszoon Van Vitgeest’s idea to use it to cut planks out of logs imported from Denmark and surrounds.The Zaan district was the world’s first industrial area and his sawmill must have contributed immensely to the wealth of Holland as they used the planks to make ships. Cornelis used to hang with Stevin and another guy who invented the centrifugal pump so he pinched the crankshaft idea and used it to saw wood, indexing so the faster the saw the faster it would feed.
      Britain had coal and iron so the I.R. really took off when it went there.

      • john6007MEMBER

        Hi BE, thanks for the info. As usual when you really look at history it’s not really like you remember what you were told at school. I find interesting the start and end of WW2 without the USA is great bias I was educated with.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Thanks for that.

        Hey, you’re not some type of white supremacist are you? You know, cheering on those nice Dutch sailors to take over the world.

      • It’s really a big misunderstanding to confuse the “industrial revolution”, which is a historical periodization with the appearance of a piece of technology. The experimentation with steam power and hydraulics in a scientific way already existed in Roman times when the Greco-Roman scientist Heron was experimenting with these things in Alexandria in c.100 AD, and the use of steam power to actually do useful stuff was being discussed around Europe by educated scientists-experimenters from the 1500s on. Sawlogs and marble were being cut by water powered machinery in the 3rd century and 4th century Roman Empire. The Han state was already using blast furnaces in the 1st century AD, although the Han produced a fraction of the iron and steel of the Roman state at the time. But this is not industrial revolution. Industrial revolution refers to the application of machine power in a general sense to production, starting with textiles from the second half of the 1700s.

      • “The experimentation with steam power and hydraulics in a scientific way already existed in Roman times”

        There is probably a reasonable argument that the term “scientific” cannot be applied to the ancients. They did not use scientific method, which involves the formal process of experimentation, observation and adaption of theory. Despite their achievements in mathematics, engineering and invention, the Greeks and Romans adopted a more philosophical approach to thinking. To build what they built there must have been elements of what we call “science”, but it was ad hoc and not formally adopted.

        As an example, Zeno’s Arrow – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno%27s_paradoxes – is not science as we know (knew) it. Another example is the failure of the ancients to properly understand force acceleration and momentum – which could have been easily investigated with some simple experiments. In fact, it was the western reverence for the ideas of the Greek Philosophers that held them back until the enlightenment and the adoption of the scientific method.

      • bolstroodMEMBER

        I recommend Neal Stephenson’s The Baroque Cycle trilogy, Quicksilver, Confusion, and The System of the World, as a guide to 17th century scientific evolution. an astoundingly good read and lots and lots of fun.At 3000 pages I wished it went forever.
        My very favourite reads.

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        Mining, hardly a White Supremacists, married a half Jamaican half Welsh but concede some races are on average smarter than others,nothing to do with colour.

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        St Jacques, the Zaan district was a huge hub of shipbuilding and manufacturing production using latest technology amply qualified to be named the first industrial precinct in the world and all the predecessor inventions you refer to qualify great merit

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        You may note in my first reply to MB that I referred to the first modern industrial district as opposed to first in all history as my opinion is that there were many preceding industrial revolutions and districts. I’m sure the Romans would have had such district’s as would other empires.

      • Boomer
        the Egyptians had circular saws and reciprocating saws, (crank shaft ) used to cut stone for, in particular the Sphinx
        im sure if you google gyppo circular saw you will find the story

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        WW thanks as per my original post am quite aware of multiple crankshaft uses before but refered to the patent as the tiny start of modern industrial age.

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        Napoleon may well have said history goes to the victory but from Australia’s perspective history went to the English language but not to fear help is at hand just as Johannes Gutenberg’s printing press saved Germany from Catholicism the internet is now saving us from the morass of fictional history enabling us without the need for being polyglot by having multilingual literacy composer. Many instances conversing with different nationalities such as Portuguese, Kuwaiti’s etc their interpretation of the same historical events were completely different than ours so I find it imperative to at least look from their perspective to validate in your mind which makes the most sense.

      • The use of powered reciprocating saws in the Roman style was commonplace by that time. The Zaan shipyard was just on a much larger scale than elsewhere and gave the Dutch an advantage in pumping out ships cheaply but it did not lead to a general industrial revolution in the Netherlands. When the “industrial revoltuion” took off in the Low Countries in the early 19th century, Belgium was the focus, not the Netherlands. Even the early steam engines used to pump water out of the mines in England in the early 18th century are not counted as “industrial revolution”. It is only from the last decades in 18th century England that are called “industrial revolution” as one industry after another is mechanized transforming an entire society.

        I agree calling ancient inventors like Heron “scientist” is going a bit far; and the word “scientist” gets used a bit too loosely these days, but he was also a mathematician and trained in logical thinking.

      • The term “industrial revolution” was coined in France c. 1840 to describe what they were observing happening on the other side of the channel. It was a long time before British historians adopted the term. Sure, popular histories and nationalist idiots have used it to boast about British ingenuity ever since, but not serious historians. I have far more respect for serious history as a discipline than economics and totally despise sociology which I regard as a rank pseudo science. btw historians do not call themselves scientists, generally, at least the serious ones, and that’s an honesty I like.

      • Well you’ve got my interest up about these shipyards. No doubt they helped lay the foundation for the so called industrial revolution. Cheers.

      • Hey boomer, gotta laugh at this “………………… but concede some races are on average smarter than others,nothing to do with colour.”
        ANY scientific evidence to back that up? No, not your experience as we know that is corruptible (bias etc).

      • I have 2 books by Neal Stephenson – Snow Crash, Anathem and Seven Eves. All on the “to read” list. The Cycle ones sound interesting.

        The last big read I did was all the Iain M Banks books – there are quite few.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Do they still have those crunchy, fake bacon pieces in the salad bar?,…mixed with corn,…I used to go a spoonful with every bite of pizza at,… “all you could eat”.,…the stingy mongrels always held back on the better pizzas.
      I had many an epic eating competition there in my stoner days,….I even spewed a couple of times in the car park,…too competative I suppose.

      They don’t still do the “all you can eat”,… do they?
      Are they BYO?,…maybe we could have an MB commentariat piss up there.

      Anyone keen?

      • haroldusMEMBER

        “Looking back, it was the bacon and corn salad at Pizza Hut that first inspired me to become a plumber. I knew I could help people.”

  2. This graph is a fantastic summary of Australian politics from 2007 onwards:

    The author is probably a right winger with an agenda, but just look at the graph! With such a steep rise in electricity pricing from 2007 onward, of course the appetite for a carbon tax disappeared by the end of 2010!

    http://joannenova.com.au/2018/02/electricity-prices-fell-for-forty-years-in-australia-then-renewables-came/

    The braindead Greens should have used another approach – cut negative gearing handouts by half and use the money saved to install solar panels on rental units. Also, build a $1 billion solar power station every year.

      • 100 percent correct.

        That privatised system has played the uptake of solar (in particular) and the gold plating of the fixed system (against the backdrop of the people taking up solar no longer being as nailed to the fixed system) to hold those remaining with the fixed system to ransom, as well as to gouge the living bejeesus out of them) to stem the uptake of solar until such point as the privatised system gets its return on investment (and then some). Big capital doesnt baulk at such stuff.

      • First of all, I am a left winger (hate mass immigration though) and voted against PM Howard 3 times in a row.

        The electricity grid in QLD has not been privatised – so the issue is gold-plating. And it would be very hard to justify gold plating if Australia had a shrinking population.

        My point was/is, look at the graph. It shows that the price of electricity was stable till 2007 and then soared like a rocket. The point of the carbon tax was to raise the price of electricity so that shops and businesses use less – well, the price of electricity soared in the absence of a carbon tax so why add a carbon tax on top? It was political suicide.

      • Yes it was indeed a VW. Ban the VW I say – it causes crime.

        drsmithy drives a VW – blatantly inciting violence.

      • The Traveling Wilbur

        VWs don’t​ make people gullible muppets who shouldn’t be left in charge of a bicycle alone, people make people gullible muppets who shouldn’t be left in charge of a bicycle alone.

        VWs are more ‘secondary symptom’ than ‘proximate cause’.

    • I hope the car owners are suitably apologetic that their collective guilt for white European colonialism made these poor African victims carry out the car jacking.
      #AussieEthnicStudiesDegree

      • Importing hundreds of thousands of people into a dying economy where a smaller and smaller percentage display the trappings of wealth that are still ostensibly advertised as within the reach and entitlement of all. No way that is going to lead to carjackings.

      • Good luck getting your insurance company to pay for repairs if you drive away from the scene and don’t get the other persons details.

    • This political correctness is a joke no one will call a spade a spade, instead the media/politicians make excuses or cover it up. 1 strike and get the kcuf out of this country no second chance I don’t care where your from. Sadly Pauline is our only hope  cos liberal/labor/greens sure won’t turn this immigration/crime problem around for the better. Vote anyone but the majors!

      • Considering the talent in her party for corruption I would not advise to expect any meaningful changes. I did state she voted 90%+ with Malcolm and the other 10%+ is just pandering to her base. Probably her job is to keep them sown up under the big tent and pacified.

      • @ skippy – you state many things, almost all of which are fantasies. You think anyone is interested in the nonsense that comes out of your mental disease ridden brain?

    • One of the agents they interviewed called it a “mellowing”. Ahhhhh mellow.

      Maybe mello yello. The market is mellow. Agents’ undies are yellow.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        No alarm bells for resident in Randwick
        Malcolm Lewis and his wife bought their family home in nearby Randwick at the peak last year. But they aren’t phased by the potential loss in value as they’re hoping to hold onto their family home beyond 2020, when prices are predicted to rise again.

        “We weren’t really concerned about whether the property market would go up or down,” Mr Lewis said.

        Malcolm Lewis bought at the peak of the market mid-2017.

        Mr Lewis wants to renovate his four bedroom house in the future and believes he will eventually make a return.

        “The Sydney property market has had a stellar run, people shouldn’t be alarmed if a little bit of air comes out of the market,” he said.

        “Over the longer term I could not imagine this area (Randwick) would significantly underperform in the market in any way. I’d be surprised, it’s a good lifestyle [around here],” he said. “It’s a great little spot.”

        Depressingly, he’s probably right.

  3. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    Saliba, who has eight other investment properties in Victoria, Sydney, Tasmania and Queensland, says he “went against his gut instinct” and was persuaded by a property spruiker. “There was no talk of oversupply, no mention of prices falling,” says Saliba, who bought the property with two friends. “I was not made aware of what might happen.”

    He says he will hold on to the property until the market improves. The off-the-plan townhouse has dropped in value by between $80,000 and $90,000 in the past 18 months. “It’s not the money, it’s more of a moral thing,” he says. “I just can’t believe it. I will trust my gut instincts next time.”

    “It’s not the money, it’s more of a moral thing,”
    Ha Ha Ha

    https://www.afr.com/personal-finance/negative-equity-starts-to-bite-for-buyers-flipping-property-20180726-h1362d

      • Bunch of gastropods!… Everyone forgets that guts are also full of it – so they entrust their decision to a bunch of yet-to-be-shat turds

      • I love it so much.

        “Man who lost money based on misinformation says next time he will make sure he has no information at all”.

        “Man who lost money buying property says next time he will buy property”.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      A cleaning company eh? What would be good now is to find out his mob pays slaves illegal wages.

      The bright side is hopefully enough gut-feelers whinge about not being told about risks and the Grimshaw bloke can run a campaign with Jessica Irvine on ACA to change the rules.

    • The property spruiker should be jailed for forcing this poor man to buy 9 investment properties. Also, the bank should be hauled in front of the Royal Commission for not advising the customer that his investments were likely to fall in value. At this stage I think it’s only right for the government to step in and cover the cost of the loans. If we don’t do this, the investor will stop creating additional property supply to help young Aussie first home buyers. Plus, he looks like he could well be an ordinary mum and dad on a taxable income of less than 80k trying to get ahead.

    • Did you spot all the typos in that AFR article?

      As you can see from the table, someone who bought in Sydney at the median house price of $1.03 million in December 2017 and sold in June 2019 at $928,350 (which assumes a 10 per cent fall in house prices) would be $194,467 worse off after $51,575 principal repayments, losing the deposit and having spent about $42,000 on stamp duty and $49,000 on lenders mortgage insurance.

      As you can see … should be ‘youse’
      10 percent fall in house prices …. try 20% by June next year
      principal repayments … should be ‘principle’ – this is a RE story after all. By the way what the F were they doing on P + I?? Would have been IO if they had been ‘adviced’ properly by their unlicensed broker
      losing the deposit … should be ‘loosing’ the deposit, since we are talking RE here

      • More seriously, one thing that jumps out at me with those figures is how much Fking ticket clipping is going on in every transaction, whether or not the buyer comes out of it in the red or black. As volumes collapse, that’s a hell of a lot of commissions, LMI premiums, valuation fees, advertising even cleaning, moving, painting etc etc not being spent. How many wages (honest or ill gotten) are evaporating day by day …

      • The LMI caught my eye, since I never intended to have to pay it so was shocked at how much it is. No wonder the plebs think it’s for them and not the banks. They think it’s like car insurance.

  4. Posted at … https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/07/general_debate_27_july_2018.html/comment-page-1#comment-2267161 (with extensive further posts)

    Mortgage Prison: Sydney Home Prices Suffer Largest Annual Decline Since 2008 … (Mike Shedlock) MISH TALK

    https://www.themaven.net/mishtalk/economics/mortgage-prison-sydney-home-prices-suffer-largest-annual-decline-since-2008-tZlmCh8jK0aWzie4NHh-Tg/

    by Mike Mish Shedlock

    Home prices in Sydney and Melbourne are back to 2016 levels. That is a tiny down payment as to what is coming.

    News AU reports House Prices Drop in Sydney, as Melbourne Prices Stall.

    Tumbling house prices in Sydney and Melbourne are the main drivers behind the first annual drop in national property prices in six years, a new report shows. The national median house price fell 1.0 per cent over the June quarter and year, according to a report by property classifieds group Domain released on Thursday. … read more via hyperlink above
    .
    .
    … Australian politicians programme of economic destruction … continued … essential reading …

    The price of vacant land in Melbourne has jumped by a staggering 40% in a year | Business Insider

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/australia-housing-affordability-population-growth-property-prices-2018-7

    • The cost of vacant residential land in many parts of Australia is soaring, especially in Melbourne.

    • Lot sales are tumbling. Along with falling home prices, this is starting to have an impact on new residential investment.

    • Land costs make up the vast bulk of housing prices in most instances. … read more via hyperlink above …

  5. Maybe if the people on welfare don’t like having a welfare payment card they should…. get a job and get off welfare? We could cut immigration and help them do it.

    • Your first tip of the weekend (related to me yesterday in Canberra) is that there is a very senior public servant perspiring freely about the process and the thought that the politicians and ministerial officers of those politicians may be looking to need to toss someone overboard real soon…….

      Indeed, I have had (for more than a year) the suggestion that elements of the Torynuffs are itching to go to as early election as is possible and that if they can put Shorten on the spot this weekend – which they may well do – that could be real soon, but that the plausible narrative keeps throwing up odds and ends like this which make any earlyish dash to the polls a big risk.

      One of the other things I have had related to me is that there is great fear on both mainstream sides of the spectrum that the next parliament could have even more unmanageable independents

  6. I have been checking in the property chat forums over last couple of months and the tone has become really bearish in the last month or so.

    Check out this comment:

    Am in the awful titanic boat of Perth
    Purchased ppor 2007
    ip 1 2010
    Ip 2 2011
    Ip 3 2014
    Ip 4 2015

    Ip 1 & 2 went up so got deposits for 2&3
    Now all have dropped significantly below purchase price. All except poor on IO

    Broker said amp would extend IO period for another 5 years no questions asked. Called yesterday to say they did a desktop valuation and they came in too low so will not extend IO. Looks like our serviceability was fine…
    Will add an extra 600-800 a month to payments.

    what scares me is IP 3 bought in our mini boom. Broker said Bankwest will extend out to 10 years IO without a doubt. Unfortunately he said that about AMP. This one could break us. If we sell, we owe the bank way too much, as this one has dropped the most.

    I just dont know how we are going to weather the storm. Im sure we will but its just not looking good. Prices are at record lows here as are rents..IP 1 was getting 360 pw…this is now at 240. These are all city/suburb investments no mining town purchases.

  7. I have some anecdata this fine morning. There is a massive block of land near Carlingford Court (Sydney) where multiple houses have been knocked down – easily 20 blocks of land. It is on Pennant Hills Road between Marsdan Rd and Evans Rd. A handful of the houses remained,everything else is already gone.
    5 of the remaining houses had ‘For Lease’ signs put up this week. They have been empty for ages – 273, 271, 269, 267 an 236 Pennant Hills Road – makes me think some deal has fallen through

    https://www.domain.com.au/rent/?displaymap=1&startloc=-33.779676966903,151.047706735695&endloc=-33.7834802442301,151.055849922264

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      The bottom of Marsden rd is shown in the lower left hand corner of this picture I posted on twitter, where it meets Victoria rd.
      This location (the old Putt putt site) is less than 500m from my kids primary School and the High School next door, that I plan to send them to (My old high school!).
      But Marsden High is earmarked to be “Transfered” to the new Medowbank education precinct at the current Medowbank TAFE site,…also the former site of Medowbank high school closed in the 80s,….a 3000 student K-12 school is planned for there,….which is good they need a new school there with all the high rise being built,….but they need to keep Marsden High also!
      Victor Dominello and thise LNP cnts have stated the Marsden site will become a sports facility with parking 6 indoor courts and 30! Out door hard courts! (More likley units on the rest is the motivation)
      But also if 30 hard courts do go there,…the Medowbank park netball courts might be up for grabs,….right on the banks of the Parramatta river, near Medowbank station and ferry warf and across the river of thise 20-30 story appartment towers,…WTF man!. This stuff needs to be stopped!
      If Labor doesn’t get in next State election and stop it,…maybe the recession we have to have will.

      https://twitter.com/ErmoPlumber/status/1022974256743772160?s=19

    • I drove past on Thursday and noticed the same thing. Can you imagine living in any of them?

      • Come for the cheap rent, stay for the enormous rubble-strewn vacant lot next door!

        Perfect for the kids. Or an illegal shantytown after the bust! Go long cardboard boxes and corrugated iron.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        To be fair, when I was a kid I would have loved an enormous rubble-strewn block next door.

    • Steve has become a market maker. Shorts a stock, announces it, stock drops 7% immediately.

      Good business there already!

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      “The case highlights a deep disconnect between how Ayala perceived his actions and how the women received them, notes Alexandra Tracy-Ramirez, a lawyer with HopkinsWay in Phoenix who specializes in gender discrimination and who also reviewed the report. “Professor Ayala repeatedly said he would never intentionally harass anyone. I don’t see a reason not to believe him,” she says. “But it still stands that there are many instances of [his] conduct that complainants and witnesses found uncomfortable, offensive, belittling, or unwelcome. … Even the lowest-level kinds of behaviors can add up to substantial impact over time.”

      Adds Olivarius: “Dr. Ayala’s very public punishment will send a loud signal that times are changing”

      “Norms are changing really fast and I think this 84-year-old got caught in a norm shift,”

      So the harsh treatment and “Punishment” of Homosexuals was OK in the past because that was the “Norm”?

      These Fascist thought police are exactly what Orwell was on about,…
      “Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

      The political correctness brigade are the very thing they claim to oppose,….and they certainly don’t advocate for “diversity” of opinion.
      Their idea of diversity begins and ends, at the superficial level of skin colour, gender, and sexual proclivity

      • “Ayala’s behavior extends back to 2004 and he was cautioned about it well before the current investigation began in November 2017, according to the report. One witness recalled wearing a conservative, button-down shirt while being interviewed for a tenure-track job by Ayala in 2004. She told investigators that she was shocked and discomfited by Ayala’s focus and comments on her appearance.”

        EP in a job setting, especially an academic one from a position of authority, personal quips about female appearances is not really a smart move – especially if it has any sexual undertones.

        I’ve had a standing rule, never date anyone at work and don’t do your house mates. Fail rates for these kind of activities is quite high and can have broader ramifications. Why even tempt fate and screw up your work or place to live for some momentary distraction. Not only that but the Prof is in a position of responsibility and should lead by example, its not some frat house, and also brings the institution into disrepute, he does have a duty of care applicable to his position.

        I mean its not like he did not have the brain cells to figure out the problem set and deal with it, years in the making imo.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        What I object to is the required Orwellian submission to certain narratives,…the victum hood narrative in this case.
        I know many “touchy feely” women who touch or stroke your arm when they talk to male and female friends/colleagues, always lots of hugs and kisses etc,…I find it a little invasive of my personal space at times, but I tolerate them, just like I do people with “incorrect political/philosophical opinions”.
        People are submitting to a lot of this $hite out of fear, not out of conscious. Its interesting to see these older people being outed as “old fashioned”
        Germaine Greer and Barry Humphreys come to mind as older people who were once celebrated for breaking and criticizing conventional conservative “Norms”,… but are now treated as Pariahs for daring to challenge this movement that ironically calls for “Tolerance”
        If indeed expressions of sexuality are so heinous in the workplace as you do when you boast,

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Sorry acidental posted before finnishing,

        When you say skip,

        “EP in a job setting, especially an academic one from a position of authority, personal quips about female appearances is not really a smart move – especially if it has any sexual undertones.”

        Then why arnt we “Outlawing” shoulderless outfits that show lots of cleavage, short skirts and high heels, make up, etc,..all of which have heavy “Sexual undertones” and have their cutural origins in displaying a womans sexual attractiveness.
        Why aren’t all these “Outraged victums” of the male gaze and flattering complements, striving for equality through adopting the clothing of the “Non sexualised” work place,…like penny Wong does,…like the Commies and officers of Star fleet do,…like we did at FMGs cloudbreak,…where we had 25%+ sheilas and everyone turned up to work, dressed to work, not dressed to put on display,…the most rootable.😘
        Im more for equality between the sexes than most I know and meet, and Im happy to see our Culture “Evolve”,…but this thought and behavior policing/hysteria, is Fking dangerous.

      • Don’t know what to do about your massive metaphysical projection EP, BTW the plural of anecdotal is not fact.

        Look his personal freedoms to engage in this behavior, that he was caution about, does not preclude the negative freedom aspect his actions have on others. If he did this on his own personal time that would be another thing, yet he did it whilst in a position of authority at his place of work. Its not his – right – to engage in this sort of behavior as a professional. You would be better informed by looking at the applied psychology wrt such rather than some wonky philosophical musings.

        Yet some are confused about a decline in civil and ethical forbearance across a wide spectrum of society – go figure.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        So a return to the strict Religious moralizing of days past, where adherence to biblical narrative, ensured an ethical world for all,.. eh?
        All we have to do is “Believe” in the revelations of the new Prophets of postmodernist identity politics

      • Again with the metaphysical projections EP, I never promoted an esoteric baseline, clearly said psychology.

        The rest is incoherent.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Like Sally McManus Im all for freedom,…but here she is defending a womans right to chose and being highly critical of their choice at the same time.
        If we ban the burqa,…we should also ban the following,
        https://youtu.be/L3SokUo6rpU

        “Again with the metaphysical projections EP, I never promoted an esoteric baseline, clearly said psychology.”

        Like Economics,…Psychology is not really a “Real Science” though,… is it Skip,…just not enough quantifiable data,…more a philosophy,…no?
        I mean the “leaders” in the feild of Psychology, are all endlessly writing “Self help” Books!,…yuck!

        As for your,….”The rest is incoherent.”
        I have no doubt you can interpret every bit of my poor plumbers grammar/writing style.

      • Stop straying from the objective point about the indavidual and topic at hand EP e.g. the prof was in violation of work place practices and how his actions imposed an anti freedom on females in the work place. You know if it was some uneducated yabo working in a warehouse I could afford him some latitude.

        If you can’t understand the authority aspect in a work place environment and the responsibility involved to everyone around you – I suggest you never seek such a position.

        Again stringing together a bunch of vacuous metaphysical terms is not an argument, unless your taking hints from the neoliberal play book.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        “Norms are changing really fast and I think this 84-year-old got caught in a norm shift,”

        “Norms are changing really fast” ?

        Sexual harassment laws in the USA were put in place in 1964, and this stuff wouldn’t have been avaguely cceptable behaviour towards subordinates in an office workplace twenty years ago, FFS, *especially* after being told to stop multiple times:

        “regularly putting his hands under a female administrator’s jacket and rubbing them up and down her sides”
        “invited a junior professor in a crowded meeting to sit on his lap, saying he would enjoy the presentation more that way” [and did the same to a student]

        There are multiple examples there of women actively changing their behaviour to avoid the bloke, at least one of them enlisting someone else to come along as a chaperone.

        And then there’s this bit:

        The report also states that Ayala “has engaged in a campaign with the highest University officials to influence the outcome of this investigation.” It says that he wrote to Gillman and Janet Napolitano, president of the University of California system, pointedly reminding them of his financial and academic contributions to UC Irvine. According to the report, Ayala told senior UC Irvine investigator Erik Pelowitz that the probe “needed to end quickly and in his favor and [that] he had lawyers waiting if [it] did not.”

        Sounds very much like he’s a grub trying to play the “old fashioned” card.

        You’ve lost the fucking plot on this stuff mate, you’re spending too much time watching professional grievance trolls like Brendan O’Neill (or listening to 2GB) and not enough time watching wise and insightful people like Chomsky.

      • smithy…

        EP forgot to lay a string line when entering the metaphysical black hole of the right wing freedom vacuum – ev’bal post modernism. Even contorts psychology as having no falsifiable aspect with regards to scientific theory and as such its all just wind and sails. Then to make matters worse confuses axiomatic derived economics with more rigorous schools of thought e.g. all economics is neoliberal…. sigh…

        BTW smithy hows the new place coming around.

      • Better cut back on those red pills, E.P.. They aren’t good for one’s health, or perspective. They just turn their takers into virtue signalling SJWs that get upset about everything and see endemic matriarchal power structures in every common occurrence. It decreases resilience and turns the consumer into whiny brats who are unable to deal with opinions that differ from their own. They end up hanging out in safe spaces on the internet and post endlessly about others who they perceive to be the peoblem while being devoid of any genuine self reflection and unwilling to pursue change within themselves.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        And you had the hide to say of my comment,
        “The rest is incoherent.”

      • It is EP, you just strung a bunch of metaphysical jargon together as a tautology in response to your biased views on the topic. The – guy – is a wanker to start with and then attempts to argue his funding pull means I can be a dominate male in the work place if “I” want – cuz freedoms.

        Lmmao… read some Philip Mirowski:

        This trenchant study analyzes the rise and decline in the quality and format of science in America since World War II.

        During the Cold War, the U.S. government amply funded basic research in science and medicine. Starting in the 1980s, however, this support began to decline and for-profit corporations became the largest funders of research. Philip Mirowski argues that a powerful neoliberal ideology promoted a radically different view of knowledge and discovery: the fruits of scientific investigation are not a public good that should be freely available to all, but are commodities that could be monetized.

        Consequently, patent and intellectual property laws were greatly strengthened, universities demanded patents on the discoveries of their faculty, information sharing among researchers was impeded, and the line between universities and corporations began to blur. At the same time, corporations shed their in-house research laboratories, contracting with independent firms both in the States and abroad to supply new products. Among such firms were AT&T and IBM, whose outstanding research laboratories during much of the twentieth century produced Nobel Prize-winning work in chemistry and physics, ranging from the transistor to superconductivity.

        Science-Mart offers a provocative, learned, and timely critique, of interest to anyone concerned that American science–once the envy of the world–must be more than just another way to make money.

        https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10160571-science-mart

        LOL your defending a neoliberal academic because of your own misogynistic tendencies, which is kinda funny considering your retort about biblical morality.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Ha Ha Ha,…lol Footie, …I see what ya did there brother,…it generated a genuine full bellied laugh out Loud,…the daughter was looking at me weird and asked why I laugh at my phone so much.
        I told her that their are a lot of weirdos on this Macrobusiness.com.au site that I go to a lot,…that make me laugh.
        She then asks….”Weirder than you dad”?
        I ignored her question.

        @Smithy and Skip,….look brothers,…the likley hood that this 84 year old is a bit of a stupid old Cnt, grub or fkwit is high and I take your point skip about a higher ethical standard/example that should be expected of instutional leaders.
        But there is an insidious side to all this identity politics and the punitive punishments their proponents actively want instutited,
        Like one of his detractors said,
        “He could have corrected his behavior. He did not. Being fired for doing something that is illegal is justice.”

        Where sharia law is practiced adulterers are stoned to death,…should we accept that as legal and Justice behaviour here?,…who decides what WE should consider legal and Just today?,…the Same instutional powers of Government and the Private sector, that gets derided here on a daily basis?,…mmm?
        Lots of talk about the abuse of “White male power” but all other abuses of Power are ignored,…why?,…justice?
        It $hits me to death Smithy,…that right wingers that I oppose vehemently on nearly all issues,…are the only ones calling this growing abuse of instutional power out.
        Just because you agree with some of its stated goals,…doesn’t make whats going on,…not Orwellian in nature.

        Tell me where you disagree with this Right winger calling out the mass hysteria of the #metoo movement.

        https://youtu.be/FIPWOaYX–Y

      • EP…

        You have lost the plot mate, you don’t even realize the whole neoliberal freedom axiom component that your forwarding and you have yet to argue how the prof should be allowed to use his position of authority to force his personal habits on others.

        Didn’t know you had oligarchical tendencies, thankfully your scale limits their projection. Think about that last bit for a moment.

      • It’s ironic that those that self claim that they are ‘rational and objective’ turn into moral cowards as soon as the women folk are mentioned. Also lol at skip claiming others are incoherent lmao and exaggerating misogyny.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Yes, yes the last bit was a creative little insult,…good for you.
        I didnt know the “Neoliberals” invented the concept of freedom,…I kinda always thought of it as a kind of value in and of itself.
        You know Im opposed to Neoliberalism just as much as you are,…my issue with the whole story was not with the “percussion” of whatever his name is, but the premise that this glorified school teacher weilds so much power against fragile emotional weak little women, that we need some instutional mob violence, to save the students and faculty from having their personhood destroyed by his “marauding behaviour”.
        We are teaching a whole generation to enguage in faux outrage, to consider themselves victims, to compete to be the greater victim, to fake their injuries,…like in proffessional soccer,…if it means helping “your team” win.
        It Victimhood as a virtue …like in Victorian times,…women cant fend for themselves,…need a man or, today, the instution to protect them from vile men.
        You say im a misogynist!,…but it is you who is, with your contempt for female independence and ability, thinking them all wall flowers in need of protection from brutish “neoliberal” men.
        You think about that one macho man.

      • E.P.,
        It was only partly tongue in cheek. You seem to be getting as caught up and outraged as the useful idiots, to borrow a term from Brenton, who fixate upon this.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Sigh,…yeah,…Fair point,…should have taken Skips lead on changing the convo to that Philip Mirowski book he’s always on about,…a bigger Problem and issue I agree.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        But there is an insidious side to all this identity politics and the punitive punishments their proponents actively want instutited,
        […]
        It $hits me to death Smithy,…that right wingers that I oppose vehemently on nearly all issues,…are the only ones calling this growing abuse of instutional power out.
        Just because you agree with some of its stated goals,…doesn’t make whats going on,…not Orwellian in nature.

        This example has nothing to do with “identity politics”. It has nothing to do with “institutional power”. It has nothing to do with Orwell. It has nothing to do with faux outrage. It has nothing to do with victimhood.

        It’s a clear case of repetitive sexual harassment that, like I said, would almost certainly have had the same outcome twenty years ago. If you struggle with the idea that repeatedly feeling up one of your subordinate staff is wrong and illegal, then you probably should try to avoid ever having any, because at some point you’re probably Gonna Have A Bad Time.

        Tell me where you disagree with this Right winger calling out the mass hysteria of the #metoo movement.

        LOL. “Independent Man”. More persecution complex trolls looking for attention. And you whinge about the wimmins and SJWs playing victim.

      • Good Grief EP you made a case about a prof getting the treatment for behavior he was pulled up on, years ago, as Orwellian anti freedom. Then compounded categorical error by deploying various dog whistles and metaphysical memes.

        You have – rights – afforded you by law, not self evident esoteric homilies.

      • SweeperMEMBER

        imo the moment you raise this in context of / or pretend this stuff has any political application rather than just being a workplace/family/individual behavioural/whatever other non-political issue, the right wins.

      • EP, hving had your arse kicked from b/fast to dinner by Skip and smithy, it must have been painful to sit down! lolololol.

        Skip, loved this “EP forgot to lay a string line when entering the metaphysical black hole of the right wing freedom vacuum – ev’bal post modernism…”

      • “BTW smithy hows the new place coming around.”

        All lawn grubs counted and recorded.

        Dennis – is it true that you can only post after your daughters have checked your work?

      • Yeah, there is no greater bummer than making some witty line about being put on ‘double secret probation’ at work, and then have to explain the reference to someone half your age …

        Amazingly, it does have an entry in that apparently timeless ‘suppository’ of knowledge, urbandictionary.com

    • When times get tight people escape via gambling (and hope for a miracle win”.

      Have been thinking about going long Tabcorp and Aristocrat. Not sure about the ethics though, I hate bloody pokies. So I haven’t done anything about it.

  8. Working with China to fight the “vested interests” in China and in Australia

    In a recent post “Trade Wars – Easy to stop and even easier to avoid” discussed how trade wars are not the result of the unilateral actions of one country. The post went on to explain how the USA and other trade deficit countries like Australia can stop a trade war in its tracks simply by restricting or limiting the sale of local financial and non-financial assets to foreigners, especially countries deliberately seek to run a trade surplus. It works because if you restrict payment for the imports that exceed your exports your suppliers will soon stop supplying them.

    However, a recent video by Professor Michael Pettis (Hat tip: Damian Klassen) provided a good reminder why this is not the full story and why there may be very real barriers in both the trade surplus and the trade deficit countries to the kind of reforms that will reduce trade imbalances and in doing so prevent political pressure for trade war measures like ‘tariffs’ and ‘quotas’ etc.

    https://theglass-pyramid.com/2018/07/28/trade-wars-working-with-china-to-fight-vested-interests/

    • SweeperMEMBER

      I don’t agree with that.
      Trade wars are the result of the unilateral action by the creditor country.
      The creditor country makes the decision to depress domestic domestic demand through a tight money policy and offset the deficit in demand which would otherwise exist by stealing demand from abroad.
      The debtor country then has no choice, with demand diverted into foreign goods they face a shortfall in demand for their goods and either have to tolerate high unemployment or stimulate consumption (cut IR) / or boost government spending. It is just arithmetic.
      If you have an international monetary system which is open to rigging by China et al, tariffs become the only answer.
      The debtor country either puts up tariffs or other trade barriers or they live with the consequences. And putting up tariffs works in monetary terms because the tight money policy of the creditor country backfires. eg. The Chinese producer who wants more Yuan but can’t get it except by getting USD first, can no longer get the USD to get the Yuan. So the CB has to ease money ie. stimulate domestic demand – and then the trade war problem is solved.
      so tariffs are not just a trade tool in that sense they are also a monetary tool – stop the inflow of goods and you stop the outflow of currency and force the exporting country to produce more of their own.

      I also don’t agree that banning asset sales is the fix or the best way to look at the problem. Because the capital/trade imbalance happens simultaenously – the BoP is an equilibrium.
      imposing a tariff on goods, simultaneoulsy imposes a barrier on capital.
      Simplest example: An importer buys Chinese goods, goods arrive before payment so the importer has a payable to China.
      The foreign debt increases dollar for dollar the moment the goods arrive in the country. So just ban the goods. Or at the very least add the GST to them.
      I usually agree with Pettis. If he is saying debtor countries have any responsibility for imbalances that is surprising to me tbh and wrong.

      • Sweeper,

        “…I also don’t agree that banning asset sales is the fix or the best way to look at the problem. Because the capital/trade imbalance happens simultaenously – the BoP is an equilibrium…”

        What?

        What happens simultaneously?

        We are talking about millions and millions of transactions that have a trade aspect and a capital implication.

        Almost none of them are simultaneous.

        If you want to buy something the seller expects that you already have the means to pay. They dont wait until you run off and organise finance…..though these days that may be just nano seconds.

        Equilibrium?. What is in equilibrium?

        At the end of the day the point of a tariff is to prevent the need for a capital account transaction.

        I have no problem with attacking the issue from both ends.

        Impose a tariff and regulate capitals flows that are unproductive.

        That way it does not matter which of us is right.

      • Sweeper,

        With regard to Pettis and apportionment of responsibility there is no issue.

        The choice of economic development model is that of the country that chooses it.

        He only talks of understanding of the context by US.

        I think that is appropriate as a mercantalist model only works if the target is prepared to sell assets or claims on future income.

        Quite clearly the USA was prepared to do that without limit.

        Its okay to whine about it but an alternative was always available.

        Presuming of course that regulating capital flows is not against your belief system and we know that it is not against yours or mine.

      • I just gave an example 007. Say an Australian importer buys Chinese goods and pays for them after delivery. When the goods enter the country the importer has a payable with the Chinese exporter. Chinese capital and Chinese goods enter the country simultatenously, the capital & current accounts increase simultatenously.

        Take it a step further, after delivery the Australian importer pays for the goods in USD leading to incipient depreciation in the aussie dollar. At a lower exchange rate aussie dollar assets become more attractive increasing foreign liabilities again.
        If the exchange rate is flexible the BoP is in equilibrium because demand for assets = demand for goods at each real exchange rate.
        So saying one side is residual is not correct. eg. your framing that we cap sales of assets to foreigners and the trade deficit will fall. No, capping sales of assets to foreigners if it means real depreciation also means capping imports from foreigners. It is just a restatement of the same thing.

      • So did Pettis actually say that debtor countries are equally responsible for trade deficits? I find that hard to believe.
        I don’t agree here. As I said, if they let the goods into the country they have to let the capital in as well.
        There is no choice because domestic demand is diverted into foreign goods so either you allow unemployment to increase or you ease money if you are an inflation targeter or you boost government spending at the zero bound. Either way capital enters the country to fund the trade deficit.
        The only way to fix it is to force the creditor country to abandon their mercantilist policy. And tariffs do that from a monetary point of view because it starves them of the foreign exchange they need in the absence of an appropriate monetary policy which would stimulate domestic demand.

      • Sweeper,

        As i noted above the point you are making is not worth arguing about.

        Tariffs and restrictions on asset sales (capital inflows) will achieve the same result as they both limit mercantalist trade strategies.

        By the way your example is highly artificial. Foreign exporters generally secure payment when they deliver goods to the port of departure FOB and for good reasons. Recovering your shipment after it is on a boat is difficult and chasing people for payment in foreign countries is misery….if you have ever tried to do it. This means they dont export unless payment has been secured. The ability of the importer to pay and how much it costs to secure the payment will be affected by the capital restrictions I describe.

        If the importer did not realise this when they ordered the goods they will realise it when the exporter demands settlement before the goods are delivered FOB.

        Pettis does not say the target of a mercantalist strategy is equally to blame and nor do I. (Nor did I say Pettis did…though I have now made that clearer in the post as it appeared to confuse you).

        The issue I am talking about in the post is how to fix mercantalism that has been in operation for some time and where “vested interests” who benefit from the trade have become entrenched in both countries.

        Tariffs, quotas or out right import bans may still be appropriate but in my view the very first step should to restrict the most obviously unproductive capital inflows as that will not only make life more difficult for mercantalism but unproductive allocations of capital is an issue that we need to be talking about anyway.

        The key point is that, as we have seen in the USA, some of the most fierce defenders of Chinese mercantalism are IN the USA. They are the US “vested interests” who benefit from the status quo.

        The politics of tariffs is much harder than the politics of arguing for restrictions on selling assets especially debt to foreigners. As Trump is finding arguing for and imposing tariffs is difficult in a world of neoliberal true believers.

        Fixing Chinese mercantilism requires both countries to work together as they both have “vested interests” who benefit from the status quo.

        All of this I discuss in the post.

      • @Sweeper…

        You can go to NC or Hudson’s other hunts and get the whole unpacking, in summery the loan is to facilitate bondholders punching out at par or better and then drop the austerity bomb, so they can enjoy the rinse and replete cycle wrt labour costs in making profit. Largely due to inelasticity in international commodity prices becuase of market dynamics and labours weak bargain power e.g. no labour market to start with and international arb opportunities – natural or manufactured.

        Oh btw oo7 you seem to negate the effects of certain types of insurance and how they are risk weighted or the drivers for long lines of risk [equity buffing due to short termism].

        Hay do you remember the whole Onassis insurance thingy…. chortle…

      • oo7…

        Of course trade imbalances elude you, is a money crank thingy… extenuated by T&S….

        BTW oo7 the whole I don’t know thing is not a good look considering your past Hudson leg humping when bastardizing his works to fit into you personal ideological views.

        You know attempting to ride on others tail coats and all to burnish their image.

      • Agent Skippy,

        What are you gibbering about now?

        You are the one name dropping Hudson and Argentina and then ignoring Sweeper’s request that you explain what the hell you are talking about and its relevance to the post or Pettis.

        And then what do we get? A fresh delivery of Skippy jibber jabber incoherence and diversion.

        I was trying be helpful by providing the link as it is a recent podcast that includes both Hudson and Argentina in the title. If you think Hudson is relevant explain how.

        And no your freeze packed ready for every occassion generalised international neoliberal conspiracy schtick just doesn’t cut the mustard.

        You are getting very lazy with your one size fits all “multi-grip” analysis.

        Have you pre-ordered Hudson’s new book on the history of debt peddlers and usury shonks?

        Sounds like a cracker for us “money cranks”!

      • SweeperMEMBER

        Hudson is probably right about that. The same thing happened in Greece. Loans to bail out foreign bond holders and buy time for the 1% to get their money out and buy time for Varoufakis to build his “public intellectual” profile motorcycling between chat shows.

  9. The Games Corner
    I recently bought Hive because it was touted to be a modern version of chess or go. The game is simple yet challenging and it possesses a universality and timelessness. It is also two players and can be played anywhere by almost anyone. Highly recommended.
    https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2655/hive

    • mild colonialMEMBER

      Good to know. I’ll keep it in mind for when my interest in the original two player game runs out.
      Or as Leonard Cohen might have said, new ceremony for the old skin.

    • Diogenes the CynicMEMBER

      It is way better than Chess! Mostly as it takes just 10 minutes to play, the “Board” is constantly changing so there is no need to remember opening moves by rote. The Pillbug expansion is recommended once you have played it a lot.

      • They’re both good. Hive is the one I prefer at the moment. People enjoy playing it, it is easier to teach and the losing party is happy to play again. Not that a Cynic like yourself has a need for the pointless distractions of easily amused fools.

  10. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    “When it comes to handling wealth, Dick Smith is clearly a different sort of rich man than the late Kerry Packer, who famously told a parliamentary inquiry in 1991: “Of course I am minimizing my tax and if anybody in this country doesn’t minimize their tax they want their heads read because as a government I can tell you you’re not spending it that well that we should be donating extra.”

    But PS can reveal that Smith does all he can to maximise his tax, with a minimum of $1million going to the ATO each year.

    “He does everything he can to make sure that it is at least a million dollars every year, he believe’s in the system and making his contribution,” an extremely close associate of Smith’s told PS this week after news broke Smith was closing down his food business, defeated by crushing discounting from rival Aldi.”

    Im wondering if Dick Smith might be considering a political career,….Ive heard he is a MB subscriber,….if so Id just like to say to him,…I hope you don’t go over to One Nation Dick,…SAP are a pretty good bunch of fellas (and sheilas) but if you’d really like to make some waves,…come and lead a rank and file take over of the Labor party Brother.
    Im just going to leave this here for you,
    https://www.alp.org.au/joinlabor

    • I’d certainly vote for him. He’s one of the few wealthy Australians that actually looks out for the future of Australia and not just about themselves.
      I met him at the Sydney Boat show a couple of years back and got to chatting to him about electronics and how he was an influence in my career choices.
      Nice guy.

    • The Labor Party seems to have way too much deadwood to cut through – I don’t think Dick Smith has enough years left to battle against that dross.

      Case in point – that video above of Sally McManus. I presume she is more or less a Labor Party icon. That level of determined, sophisticated stupidity looks to me to be unassailable.

    • roylefamilyMEMBER

      Dick Smith has joined Sustainable Australia. However he is disinclined to run as he feels he is a bit too old.

  11. I have had a spike of those BS ‘we have a young professional family with confirmed finance approval desperate to move into your area …’ letters from the RE agents in the letterbox in my area (Sydney – Inner West) recently. I have not seen any for ages.

    I thought they were usually a sign of the agency’s books drying up and desperation to get listings? I can’t recall the prevailing conditions when they last used to appear??

    • arthritic kneeMEMBER

      I had one door knocking last week saying they had buyers coming out of their ears and would we be interested in selling. Had to drop the news this was a rental but things must be bad if you leave the leased Benz behind and walk door to door.

      • Friendly piece of advice. Never drop any info to a door-to-door real estate agent that your house is a rental. It’s none of their business. OK they can probably work it out easily enough for themselves but don’t do their job for them. Just say “no thanks” and shut the door in their face.

    • Oh Noes they’ve been caught short with supply issues. What’s your area doing? Reticence in crystallizing a loss or scared to find out…….?

  12. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/how-to-survive-americas-kill-list-699334/

    I put this up late last weekend. It provides an insight into the ruthlessness and lawlessness of America’s drone assassination program. A very chilling piece that gets crazier and crazier the deeper in you go.

    Side note: Rolling Stone provided a forum for Hunter S. Thompson, P. J. O’Rourke, Tom Wolfe and now is letting Matt Taibbi do his stuff. Not too shabby for a music magazine.

      • You may have a point, but im pretty sure he was fairly busy covering the biggest financial fuckup, with coresponding banker coverup for a lot of those years.

      • Did you read the article? If so, you should have picked up that it was a critique of American policy from Bush onwards. It is focused on a case being tried at the moment. Through that case the author is pointing out how messed up America has become, how it got there and why the future doesn’t look good. That Trump is in power isn’t the point and Obama’s tenure gets no pats on the back. Though, if you did read the piece, you would have noted that many, many more of these are occurring under Trump than under Obama. So, if it is a question of size, Trump is the bigger d1ck out of the two.

  13. The suggestion that the US no longer has the capability to present a united front, for example in the economic war with China, has some supporting evidence. For those of you with access to the WSJ here’s a link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-administration-tries-to-ease-republican-worries-about-trade-fights-1532649590?mod=hp_major_pos7.

    For those without access, some extracts:
    Mr. Barr is one of 24 GOP representatives whose re-election this November is rated a toss-up by the Cook Political Report, and he complained that bourbon makers in his district were being hurt by European retaliation for U.S. steel tariffs. “We want to know when we’re going to get a solution.”

    With Republicans growing increasingly worried about losing control of the House this fall, fears aggravated by polls showing the unpopularity of Trump trade policies, Rep. Bill Huizenga (R., Mich.) read aloud to the White House advisers a text from a tool-and-die maker in his district who was facing higher raw-material costs because of the aluminum and steel tariffs. “I was making sure that they heard the message that this is not just uncomfortable—it’s painful and it’s damaging,” Mr. Huizenga later told reporters. He said that because his district also includes farmers, who are getting squeezed by the retaliatory tariffs, “we’re getting it coming and going in western Michigan.”
    Many of the lawmakers said the GOP-led Congress should keep alive the prospect of legislation to curb Mr. Trump’s ability to impose tariffs on the table, even after the apparent thaw in relations between the U.S. and EU.
    …………. [after a discussion about the need to sell the tariff policies] ………..
    “We just opened up Europe for you farmers,” Mr. Trump said in Iowa. And Mr. Lighthizer told Congress that “our view is that we are negotiating about agriculture, period. That’s part of the process.”

    But the joint statement between the sides makes no mention of covering agriculture beyond a pledge to buy more soybeans, nor any promises to discuss addressing European agriculture tariffs and subsidies—a major source of trade tensions with the U.S.
    ………….
    And while European officials did vow to try and buy more soybeans—to help offset American sales lost as a result of Chinese retaliation against the U.S.—they said that was really an affirmation of market forces, as prices for U.S. crops tumble, rather than a promise to buy a quota. “We are not going to turn into some kind of a Soviet-style economy,” one said. “Market rules will remain in place.”
    The thing I find interesting is that the negotiations with Europe are offering less of a benefit for the US than the agreement Obama was negotiating, that Trump dumped.

    • It seems a widespread view in the US, and certainly amongst the dominant posters on MB, that Trump had a win in his negotations with the EU’s Jean-Claude Juncker but from what I have seen in the European and UK press the view over there is that it was Juncker who came out on top. Juncker gave Trump a few trinkets that he could brag about but gave no significant concessions.

  14. Really solid falls on the SydMelb Corelogic figures today chaps, following on from yesterday’s major falls. This week would be above average with just those two days results and globes for the rest of the week, so if this keeps up it’s going to be absolutely epic.

    Being a cold-eyed and flint-hearted engineer who hasn’t felt an emotion since 1987, it’s rare that numeric data gets the blood flowing for me as it does for haroldus and Ino…but…:-)

    • Moments like these you need a Minsky

      Too much credit and not enough interest, I’ll wait for the next cycle!
      ba-dum-ch

      edit: don’t mind me, just here sourcing material for an open mike night at the Von Mises Institute.

  15. TailorTrashMEMBER

    LSW…….Reusa knows a thing or two about blood flow …..to a certaain appendage ……..wonder if it still engorged …or a tad relaxed …dare I say flaccid ….these days ….

    • What losers. Could not even make the effort to disguise clandestine alphabet agency funding properly. Why would anyone be stupid enough to link it to user revenue? Now they loose the contract to spy on Americans, and suddenly the market is super focused on their bogus user stats… lol…

      Though in the case of Twitter, shadow-banning prominent republicans on various committees, wait for it – the same folks who are responsible for regulating big tech, clearly such an action was not going to bite Twitter in the arse.

      Stupid progressive cultists…

      • Hey look – its the retarded marsupial. Jumped the shark yet, or just forgotten to take your meds?

      • Name these progressives, its like blaming the greens down under for the last 40ish years.

      • Progressives who push null concepts like ‘hate speech’ to silence their political opponents.

      • That would be people like you, you retarded marsupial. You are explicitly the retarded progressive moron who keeps blaming neoliberalism, without understanding, it literally means new liberalism. You would be the liberal whose stupid ideas caused the problems the rest of us have to deal with.

        And your only defence? If you had been put in charge it would not suck as much. Thanks but no thanks. I’m done with communists, liberals, socialists and other left wing cultists telling me, that if I just listened to them, instead of the other communist, everything would be fine. Take your retarded cult and shove it where the sun don’t shine.

    • Haha they were forced to own up to the number of bots on twitter. Advertisers don’t want to pay 💰 for bot followers.

      • or the excrement with blood-on-hands that was “democratically” set [unsuccessfully] to run ‘that’ country…

    • I find this old clip of him interesting. For most of it he is talking as a developer with a thorough knowledge of his key market. Then at the end he is asked about a development that had some controversy attached to it and that he was criticized for. His tone and body language changes. He starts telling a story and he can’t help but embellish it. I’m not sure if it could be proven, but I’d bet that he didn’t have the appraisals he speaks of done. Neither the first, nor the second. And why would you get something appraised after you had destroyed it?

      He seems to now constantly be in the latter state. Maybe the stories never stop. Maybe he’s now that dodgy workmate who can no longer remember who he’s told what story to so everything is just part of the sell until that’s all he is, one giant con.

      https://youtu.be/0-w47wgdhso

      • But it’s no revelation, he’s always been a bullsh1t artist and a showman, it’s just on another platform now.

        I still remember when he used to say The Apprentice is the number 1 show on television when it was way down the ratings and laugh how ridiculous it was. Billy Bush brought it up earlier this year.

        “He’d been saying it’s No. 1 forever and finally, I’d had enough,” he explained. “I told him, ‘Wait a minute, you haven’t been No. 1 for like five years — not in any category, not in any demo.’ He goes, ‘Did you see last Thursday? Last Thursday, 18-49, the last five minutes.’ ”

        He added that “Later, when the cameras were off, he said, ‘Billy, look, you just tell them and they believe it. That’s it: you just tell them and they believe. They just do.”

        https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/03/17/billy-bush-continues-his-redemption-tour-talks-trump-real-time-bill-maher/434927002/

  16. Mortgage Prison: Sydney Home Prices Suffer Largest Annual Decline Since 2008 | Zero Hedge

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-27/mortgage-prison-sydney-home-prices-suffer-largest-annual-decline-2008

    Authored by Mike Shedlock via MishTalk,

    Home prices in Sydney and Melbourne are back to 2016 levels. That is a tiny down payment as to what is coming.

    News AU reports House Prices Drop in Sydney, as Melbourne Prices Stall.

    Tumbling house prices in Sydney and Melbourne are the main drivers behind the first annual drop in national property prices in six years, a new report shows. The national median house price fell 1.0 per cent over the June quarter and year, according to a report by property classifieds group Domain released on Thursday. … read more via hyperlink above …

    • Yes. This puts big pressure on Turnbull, eases pressure big time on Shorten.

      Good result for those who want Libs to switch hard to cutting immigration, and Labor to stick with negative gearing reform.

      • +1
        The backbench can see doom approaching and will be emboldened to take on Mal Scummo and Cormann over immigration.

    • TailorTrashMEMBER

      Sorry ……bit old …..tad slow ….can’t see the pattern …can you provide key ?

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Not surprising considering anecdotes here.

      Last week I posted about people I know. Went to auction and failed to sell. Unreported. Sold a month or so later privately. Included in stats two weeks in a row. Then had the hide to say 39 days on market when in reality that was only the time since failed auction day. Actually on the market for 90+ days.

      Reckon I’ve reported three or four like that. That’s just one bogan’s observations. It’s a scam. Hang ’em all.

      • Canberra over reporting frequently by quoting number 1, 1/3 and 1(3) Street Name as separate sales. Morons.

        But it won’t help the price figures.

    • Looks like he is mistaken and is looking at last weekend’s results. The examples given are not listed in today’s auction results on Domain, but they are listed on RealEstate.com.au which is still showing last week’s results.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      So what are the predictions from the comentatiate, on when it will be the time to jump back in, to a score a “bargin”
      12 mths, 18mths, 24mths,…10years?

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        When it’s only a 10-15% premium for owning over renting. At the moment it’s 100%.

      • IIRC, some years back there was reference here to some research that had median peak to trough international real estate pops at 2-2.5 years.

        The Australian bubble has been anything but average, so who knows how long the deflation will last.

      • In is likely to fall some more, then it should go back up for a bit first – bear trap part of the cycle according to the long wave theory. I guess we will see.

      • This^
        Uptake of those desperate to buy catching the falling knife, then once exhausted, the slippery dip continues.

      • Question is whether there is much pent up demand left given FHB demand has already been brought forward by grants etc. i guess the govt could always put in some other stupid incentive and give us the dead cat bounce…

      • Unless we had a bear trap in the follow of the 2012 decline picking up the momentum and over-reaching…
        which means slippery slope from now on…

      • Djenka, that is such a good observation.
        End of 2015 there was a dip too, then went nuts till mid last year.
        Is the bear trap ahead of us or behind us?? How long is a bear trap meant to last for and what does it look like?

    • Expect changes as political survival instinct kicks in. Im hoping that Mal will be forced to suck up changes to policy to appease a back bench motivated by its own survival.

      • Is the issue population ponzi, if so I welcome the new election winning policies that must take immediate effect to have any credibility

    • And the results are in – Mal has learnt nothing from yesterday. That man is beyond hope. Never has there been a more politically inept PM.

    • That’s my wife’s way of saving. Only shops in sales and then tells me how much money she’s saved us.

      • Did you know that that joke comes from either the “Flintstones” or “I Love Lucy”? Can’t exactly remember which, but it is definitely 60’s vintage. Still works 50 years later!

  17. More evidence that the electorate does not care if the politicians are dual citizens.

    By elections on Saturday.

      • Reachtel and others did polls asking “are you ok with dual citizens in parliament”? And more people than not said “yes”.

      • Same, I kind of despise labour even though I agree with their negative gearing reform and like Chris Bowen, the rest seem like traitors. Shafting the average worker for their Chinese paymasters.

    • Evidence that if Norway wants to occupy Australia all they need to do is run Norwegian candidates during next elections.

    • Possibly the electorate doesn’t care if people who (apparently) had no idea they were dual citizens are in parliament, because their Australianness is pretty clear. Very different to someone who openly and clearly has allegiance to two countries.

      Anyway. Moot point. Pollies won’t be risking it from now on.

  18. Does anyone know what the story was here: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-27/mattis-rejects-viral-australian-report-possible-us-iran-strike – no way ABC just happened to run that story.

    Seems highly suspect. Both Julie Bishop and Penny Wong have spoken out against the_donald recently, so clearly some part of our retarded political leadership seems to not understand to leave the US presidency alone.

    Also, since Alexander Downer got his fingers into dodgy 5-eyes intelligence and kickstarted the Mueller investigation, given that this could well be considered an act of war, maybe the retards who run our foreign policy should stop doing whatever nonsense they are up to?

      • Yes. Unfortunately it is now so far out there that it’s difficult to know if anything it reports has credibility. Except when it quotes MB of course…

      • Arrow – yes, and even when a ZH article is reasonably solid the comments section is usually wilfully offensive. Strangely enough over the years ZH has done excellent work in discussing the obesity epidemic in the US (which also affects us here in Oz) and often their purely operational defence reports are informative. But for the most part they have become a caricature of what even they were back when they were more a financial blogsite.

      • triage…

        ZH has from inception been an ideological cult based media outlet. Sure they on occasion point out some interesting financial on goings, but, then use it to forward the ideological perceptive.

        Did you miss the whole HAARP thingy or the selective ramblings of cog dis et al….

      • As opposed to you Skippy? You are a pathetic evangelist for whatever nonsense you have imbibed over the years, and now everyone else is wrong? Go f yourself. I’d rather read ZH than your retarded rants.

      • Hay T go back and read the archives where Marla and I talk, btw where did they toss her body when they no longer needed it.

        But yeah old ZH was so right about hyperinflation, Obama was a commie socialist, stimulants and rave music made you smarter, Occupy wanted to destroy Capitalism, Austrian logic has no peers [self awared], Von Mises is dawg reborn, economic laws are immutable truths [funders say so], corporatist funding for FEE et al…. I regress….

      • Go on then skippy – find one single post from the original Marla on ZH, and show me. Where you and Marla talk? F off you lying pos.

        I’d love to see a single comment you made on an article in ZH when it was not just TD as a pseudonym for all the authors. I take it that is what you are referring to – seeing as you actually having a conversation with one of the original authors of ZH is about as likely as you being able to say anything truthful.

      • Marla and I talked about the rights involved with the Gaza embargo and how international shipping laws applied.

        BTW I used skippy and was banned for taking exception to her treatment.

      • Do you even grok the hypocritical ramifications wrt free speech T… Marla did her best to forward a prospective. I challenged that with broad historical perspective about rights and currant legal opinions about the occurrence at hand. I respected Marla’s personal opinion yet differed in how it was applied in the event.

        It was around this time that she was given the boot and I protested strongly to the D admin about the hypocritical nature of their actions in full ZH fight club mode – Lmmao and got banned – so much for freedom of speech…

        Do you even get the point that I took on the authority of the ZH blog in defense of someone I did not completely agree with, but, strongly disagreed with her treatment because of one instance where they did not clearly win the day……

      • Have you some sort of cognitive issues T, lest we forget, just saying how you feel about something does not make it actual. Even spoke to mig about this years ago. Had to quote international maritime law over a long historical perspective. Irrespective of the view you believe in I did spend a bit of time back in the early days at ZH and had to deal with the gold bugs and various HAARP et al sorts. Basically an AET mouth organ, once you wrap your head around what a load that MPS drivel is the rest is just filler.

    • Some censorship is undesirable but necessary. The Alex Joneses of the internet (and there are LOTS of them ) are like a virus. The sickness they spread is really dangerous.

    • The most dangerous viruses are those that attack the human immune system. Free speech is the immune system of the human meta-animal. Again, free speech is the immune system of the human meta-animal, of human society. To speak the truth is the only true human responsibility, the only true ability, and the only true human right. You always have a right to speak the truth.

      Are there instances where free speech is dangerous, sure – absolutely. We know yelling fire in a crowded space is dangerous. But outside of these very limited instances, f*ck those who would restrict our ability to speak the truth.

      @Gramus – how do you know that Alex Jones is not speaking the truth? How do you know that it is not your precious progressive cult which is lying? Personally, god bless those who are brave enough to speak the truth, limited as it might be due to their limited experiences. Maybe they are wrong, and maybe they do not have all the facts, and maybe they are Alex Jones with all of the flaws of any single human. But their individual truths are far more true than any number of progressive ideologues chanting equality, diversity and vagina, or whatever nonsense you regularly spout. God bless the stupid conspiracy theorists.

      Again, God bless the stupid conspiracy theorists. Maybe I am wrong about every single thing I believe. But for right now, this is the best truth I have, and I will speak it loudly, for the world to hear. Speak what your lying eyes show you. Maybe I am stupid, and maybe I don’t understand everything, but I will speak the truth as I perceive it, for the world to hear. Maybe the world does not listen, maybe the world does not care, and maybe the world thinks I am insane, but I speak it anyways. It is the truth.

      • Please read Mills, speech is categorized e.g. no such thing as full spectrum free [tm] speech.

        Then again certain ideological camps have a propensity for misappropriation and bastardization of others works in shaping their narrative. Best bit is once some people get this core mental anchor point cemented in their head you can bolt on just about any “FEAR” based syntax and have them jump through hoops for you.

        I think Hayek and blokes like Jones fit that description nicely. Infowars should be more correctly call Infotainmentwars and further more Agnotology is a real thing.

      • F off you loser. I could not give less of a sh!t about whatever nonsense you think is relevant.

        In your retarded world, if everyone agreed with your entire set of life experiences, everything would work. And all you ever want is the last word. No evolution, no growth, just a crab bucket mentality.

    • He used hate speech and got a one month ban on his personal account…. sounds self inflicted.

      • Define the parameters of ‘hate speech’. Who determines which speech is ‘hate speech’ or not, oligarchy?

      • Hate speech = anything said by a white male that does not clearly and unequivocally demonstrate self hatred of gender and race.

      • If your not familiar with the topic, whom originally quantified its scope, argued their case and how it frames the entire subject matter, putting a floor under the entire thing…. wellie… your arguing from a point of ignorance aka making up as you go [tm].

        Just responding with a rhetorical quip grounded on some watery quire about authority is gaming the conversation e.g. attempting to pull out the old fear ploy. Best bit is the way you couch it, it could be anyone and everyone or some dark force, but of course you and yours are on the side of light [tm].

        https://stanford.library.sydney.edu.au/archives/spr2008/entries/freedom-speech/

        I think its not unreasonable to understand the concept of yelling out fire in a crowded movie or incite a riot, these sort of actions put society at risk, the individuals rights express themselves does not give them right to put others in harms way. Since this thread is about Jones and a specific act he did in the public sphere, where he clearly made comments about physical harm, considering he’s speaking to his “faithful” listeners, I don’t find a one month ban on his personal FB account egregious removal of freedom of speech.

        Just so you know AJ does what he does to pay the bills and his show is marketed to a specific demographic as a business. Persoanly I find the whole shtick reminiscent of experiences in southern baptist churches back in the bible belt sticks of my youth.

    • Gavin, I think the market is voting on FB. Jones is an extremist as many on the other side are. They only have one view and are unwilling to listen to an alternative. He could present his opinions better…maybe. I saw him on youtube once, and it was clear he’s a nutter. But he’s in a crowded space given the flood of outrage on discussion these days.
      BTW the FB ads are laughable given FB have been caught twice since the Congress session up to no good. They will never willingly wind back.

      • I’m not defending Alex Jones btw. I think he’s a crack pot of the highest order, although some of it (although it’s deeply conspiritol) is probably not far from the truth in some respects.

        My concern is FB is actively making decisions on banning Pepe who may say things that others don’t agree with. Those rules are open to interpretation and we know liberals certainly those working at FB will bend them to suit their political bias.

        That’s why I think the platform will die. It’s relevance will wane and a new platform (decentralised) will pop up to take its place. Censorship as we continue to criticise the Chinese for their great firewall is dangerous, perhaps just as dangerous as #fakenews.

      • afund…

        FB’s entire model is based on users being the commodity by which they can extract data to sell and offer a platform for the users of that data to monetize it – like a dogs breakfast back to the commodity. Lmmao if that is not some Gates frictionless capitalistic mercantilism I don’t know what is…..

    • Gavin, I wasn’t questioning your AJ view. I was just saying I think the market sees what the FB user base is deciding about FB. Not everyone on FB cares about privacy, as they just look at utility, but maybe when they have a teenager who’s suicidal about the bullying and other social infestations they might?. The bias at FB is probably like other MSM’s and if you look at his lobbying it’s pretty clear where he stands. There is a story he sold a lot of stock just before the stock correction and I wonder if the SEC will respond.

    • drsmithyMEMBER

      Alex Jones is a crack pot, but censorship will kill Facebook as a platform.

      If I go to a restaurant, then halfway through my meal start screaming threats at another patron, is the restaurant kicking me out, “censorship” ?

      • Forget Alex Jones. Here is an example of Facebook’s over reaching censorship, now they own the platform so they can do what they like, just like a Restaurant owner can decide if they want to boot out unruly guests. I’m not debating that what I am saying is that it will lead to the platforms downfall, since they will make a lot of wrong calls. It’s a slippery slope. Example here.
        https://www.smh.com.au/technology/gut-wrenching-aussie-facebook-page-with-2-6m-likes-taken-down-20180712-p4zr0v.html

      • “If I go to a restaurant, then halfway through my meal start screaming threats at another patron, is the restaurant kicking me out, “censorship” ?”

        What if he was an avid critic of your previous misdeeds and everyone knew that?

        Cannot be that simple and you know it.
        If Vlad Pyoutin did the same to his critics he would be named a dictator, autocrat, despot, pure evil… eh?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        If Vlad Pyoutin did the same to his critics he would be named a dictator, autocrat, despot, pure evil… eh?

        Possibly because Putin represents the powers of the state.

      • You’re right,
        I forgot Facebook is a charity organisation run by Mother Theresa, Red Cross and UN and not some clandestine corporation with tight inseparable links to US regime and even more links with Beltway

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        The main point here is that “censorship” is something Governments do, with legal power and consequences behind it. It’s not a term that should be bandied about with reckless abandon.

        The secondary point is, what is the proprietor of a “restaurant” supposed to do with unruly customers ? Let them yell it out and disrupt everyone else’s experience ? Potentially open themselves up to a legal liability if the situation becomes “violent” for not defusing the situation earlier (or preventing the entry of participants with a history of getting violent) ?

        You are the one here implying the situation is simple (‘just let them do whatever and don’t get involved’), not me.

  19. I don’t know what it was like in the other states but this by election yesterday the media was blatantly in favour of the LNP here in Qld and the so-called pollsters were also trying to get the LNP over the line…..they couldn’t be that wrong except on purpose. This upcoming general election is going to be a sickening display with recent media concentration to help the LNP by then. Also pre-polling is getting out of hand and negating skill in campaigning

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      That’s what brought on what I’ve banging on about the last couple of days re the ABC. St Mal told some lies and his ABC dutifully played the sound grab over and over and over. Somebody suggested that perhaps they shouldn’t play that as it had been proven to be a lie. ABC man says no, it’s not our job to report the truth, it’s to report what is newsworthy.

      Lies are newsworthy and that is all that matters. ABC were obviously hoping those lies got their man over the line but they weren’t alone. Murdoch, Fairfax, ABC. It’s blindingly obvious what they are trying to do.

      There’s another example of a grab where a little old lady was accusing St Mal of being a big fibber. Aunty edited it so that it sounded like she was calling OL Bill a liar. It is appalling. Australian journalism is appalling.

      Hang ’em all.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/msrose2343/status/1023065927024144389/video/1

      • What Flexian MBAs stick together, sorta like sociopathic Mentats free from the usual constraints of human morality or instinctual considerations [cough… altruism]. You’ll get that from the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen Corporatist school of indoctrination imo….

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        I’m a little frightened now. I always thought they told lies because they had to pay a mortgage *waves at Jessica Irvine* or wanted to be seen as players. *waves at Michelle Gratten*

        What if they actually do believe their own sh!t? That it’s for the greater good?

        Someone hold me.

      • @Mining: I don’t know that the landscape of your workplace is like, but the thing that frightens me within the narrow sliver of things deemed acceptable to talk about in the public health sector, is supposedly highly intelligent people who have no clue about any of this and to whom it would never occur in a million years that something they heard on the news might not be true.

        I think the strategy of telling and recycling lies works in a game where you only need 50% + 1 vote.

      • @MB … the truth is that “it’s all lies” so you’re spot on.
        Whether it’s policy A or B, we’re normally not going to benefit as in the end it’s our 60-70% tax revenue that’ll pay for it. And now they are saying we need to pay more, while corporates pay less. Most people don’t see the job destruction going on by the corporates either, and the dumbing down of the country. My wife is a teacher and says there is less time with students now due to the whole data collection, and our kids will leave school less able to do the remaining jobs. They’ll be lucky to get a job or buy a home as the government wage a war against it’s own citizens with more and more immigration. Almost all sectors now are under threat. I think Labor will win the next election, but we’re going to even more angry at what they’ll do to the majority of us.

      • Speaking to a few older work colleagues as well as friends some younger and in their 20s about all the media bs fake news etc. and I am surprised how many see straight through these lies and fake news and tell it how it is. The internet is a wonderful thing and many get their news from many places not just the mainstream. I think it’s mostly just boomer+ generation still believing all the garbage spewed by the mainstream because that is what they want to believe and it follows their narrative. That being said my parents listen to talkback radio and even they are aware of the propaganda and lies on tv and the print paper. I think the general populace is more “aware” than we think.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Bribe Island too, where the oldies used to walk in front of LNP types throwing rose petals.

        And St Mal really, REALLY needs to stop talking down to those that disagree with him. All too late though. His name will be forever mud now.

      • If I ever hear Mal or Bill I switch off immediately. Their actions never match the rhetoric. They get rich at the expense of the country, and never see what real people go through. They just don’t get it or have the intelligence to understand what’s going on. We’ll get Labor at the next election, but nothing will change. Smashing the current lot won’t get the message to the pollies.

  20. Now I’ve seen everything.
    Melbourne airport this morning. Usual crowd including an extended Chinese family. Nothing notable until grandma spends 5 seconds (seemed longer) noisily cycling between nasal drawbacks and lung purges finished off with an expertly binned wad.

    • Thanks for sharing! Chinese invasion and the covert biological warfare: chinese lurgies assume consciousness and walk out of the bins, jumping on the the faces of the unsuspecting australians. Alien – eat your heart out!

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      At least it was binned, most of them don’t bother. Can’t go back to the Chinese restaurant in DY anymore after such episode from the duck cutter made the missus sick and I had to explain to staff why we left before finishing.
      That’s why I don’t like to surf after rain, that’s not all that doesn’t get binned.

    • @ Dave

      You haven’t seen it all.

      Go to Mt Druitt, stop at the traffic light and observe the nose-picking-snot-eating way of life…
      Could not unsee this but I stopped looking sidewise during traffic stops.

    • I don’t know… seems plenty of Ozzies yacking all over the place on pub nights or what about that tradie crack [swear the more repulsive – the more you get to see].

      • Your boring repetitive clapped out whataboutist sycophantic hypocritical self flagellation is vomit inducing. But go on, make sure you get that last word in.

      • Do you have a point to make or is it just the personification bomb.

        My point is simple, reducing singular ethnic behaviors – as a failure – of them in totality – is a two way street. So in engaging in this simplistic narrative you also enable the same to be applied to you and yours.

        Lmmao on the farm we snoted by putting ones thumb against one side of the nose and giving a big blow, in the south west of America we used to see who could spit chewing or dip tobacco the furthest, my aunt gabby [cowgirl] once mistook the shared spit can [coors beer] and had a mighty pull, it was the highlight of the Sunday rodeo at their place….. the look, the projectile yack was epic…

      • I’m with the skip on this. At the tram stop earlier in the week a young white fella was spitting with glee. I’ve seen blokes in suits do it at train stations and nonnas on sidewalks. It was one of the big culture shocks of moving to Melbourne. The tradies up north would let one go but down here all sorts aren’t afraid to let one out. Some Chinese can be a bit more open and dramatic but they definitely aren’t performing solo.

      • Funny thing footsore…

        In Afghanistan American troops doing the whole hearts and minds routine with agrarian tribal elders would let one rip, could be a dominate thing or just normative behavior due to environmental factors, but, in the eyes of the Afghans this was a huge insult as well as the behavior of lowly animals.

        Then these arrogant yanks [here to save everyone – watch out for the red mist social gathering] were confused why these primitives did not respond accordingly to their dialogue. I mean a bunch of goats wearing high tech does not make them human in their eyes.

        McNamara’s mea culpa Fog of War is a great example I think, especially the bit about sitting down with his old NVC counter parts for dinner.

        BTW Meegs19 the self hater meme pins the proverbial pin on the ideologues tail, can’t your mob – think – of anything “new”.

      • You think anyone here gives a sh!t about your old-timer folksy bull? Do you have anything other than retarded instances from 45 years ago when the world was a different place – that, and insisting if everyone listened to you, the world would be a better place?

        F off, and take your stupid progressive ideas with you.

      • Say pop T….

        BTW who elected or put you in charge of information or was it “self awarded”.

  21. bzunicaMEMBER

    Insiders – liberal apologists. Still talking about Shorten’s leadership. What about Malcolm’s woeful result?

  22. Rp data bust getting epic. Even with probable dodgy figures. Ro data daily. Nice 5.3% down in sydney. Have got a lot of money in rams. Thk i will pull it for hsbc before it is frozen

      • RAMS is a home loan lender so if you think housing will crash AND you think banks will go under AND you think the govt guarantee is questionable, then RAMS might be one of the first to go and depositors could lose their dough.

        I think not likely, but definitely not impossible.

      • I wondered why rams offers such a high rate. Wd rather panic early…all in my uneducated opinion so take no notice of me

    • A few things:
      1) Westpac owns and is liable for RAMS.
      2) If deposit guarantee was not honoured on the first ADI’s to go bust it would lead to a bank run/credit freeze. It would be an idiotic move by the government.
      3) RBA has already implemented the software to reimburse your money.

      IMO the first smaller ADIs to fail will definitely be honoured. Only if too many of the smaller ADIs fail, or if any of the bigger banks fail will the $30B deposit guarantee limit and bail-ins come into effect.

      • I agree with this. The govt not honouring the guarantee may be technically possible but politically it is impossible.

        And as far as I am aware the RBA can basically print to infinity so even if every bank fails, all deposits can still be guaranteed. Views?

      • In my book its all a matter of what the debt is denoted in – per se FX exchange on foreign denominated debt can be programmatic considering agency forces in a free market based matrix e.g. people do conspire to get outcomes. Personally I have no dramas with internal debt denoted in ones own currency [debt] as long as it socially productive and provides a reasonable modicum of social stability. Historical examples of the opposite lend to the weird going pro and destruction of capital on some ideological lark – never works out on paper [philosophical] as it does in reality.

    • I’m working on a full-blown CT for this one. Lady Downer was parachuted into Mayo deliberately to lose (they knew that her beliefs and who she is as a person would go down like the proverbial cup of cold sick in that electorate). The loss would make Malcolm’s position as Leader untenable resulting in a glorious return to power by TONY who will seize the Federal election on a Stop the Planes platform.
      You read it here first 😉

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        I’ll work with that.

        But will it be ourTony 2.0 or Il Dutto to rattle the border chains?

      • I just checked the LNP newsletter (The Australian) and saw nothing that falsifies my hypothesis.

      • Julie Isabel Bishop for PM with Michaelia Clare Cash as her deputy.

        Dutton and Pyne is another interesting combination.

        Too bad Abetz is in the senate.

        Barnaby Joyce. He’s got experience as acting PM.

        If anything, the LNP has too much talent. Oh, how blessed we Australians are thank Dagg for how he has granted us with such a bounty and that he lets us drink in the nectar of such sweet fruits. We are parched, but now it is time to feast, now is the time for glory, for now, the adults truly are in charge.

  23. Just checked the Corelogic data again. St Patrick is the patron saint of Engineers, and if I was a believer I think he’d be smiling on me today.

  24. Lessons for the LNP from Super Saturday?

    I wonder when the Lib parliamentary party faithful break ranks with Mal and fatso and point out that there is not much good importing those 200,000 Indians each year to line the pockets of party mates in the FIRE and retail sectors with dutiful little consumers and borrowers if we are all out on our backsides and having to scramble for jobs in the real world.

    Rummaging through the CVs of those LNP members on the pendulum cutting block as shown here

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_pendulum_for_the_Australian_federal_election,_2016

    does make one wonder how they will fare in a post RE bubble economy.

    The times have long gone that even as an out of the loop solicitor who had been in Parliament for 2-3 terms you could still go and hang out a shingle and earn a decent crust, or dust off that arts degree and go back to being a journo or whatever. You could probably repeat that for any line of work, even (especially) selling real estate. Even for the lucky ones, the days of wearing a suit in the real world and automatically flying business and getting a nice hotel when you travel are likewise consigned to history.

    Moreover, these are all punters on the non generous super/pension arrangements with no hope in hell of a gold pass if they get shown the door. One (Ken O’Dowd) is close to retiring and probably won’t run or care though he is only a 3 termer and probably would not mind topping up the retirement finances for another three years.

    Even if he retired, the LNP doesn’t exactly have seats to chuck away and there are surely plenty of staffers who equally couldn’t make it in the real world who want to step up to a realistic chance at their first seat, not a toxic wasteground that is going to see thousands of hours on the hustings rubbing flesh with the great unwashed and getting abused on Facebook chat groups rewarded with a crushing defeat.

    As LVO has been repeating, cutting immigration would be a guaranteed vote winner for whomever has the guts to pull the pin out of that mofo and roll it down the aisle.

    Gees If I were sitting in that LNP party room from an electorate with < 5% margin, I would be making some noise …

    • IMO I think it’s a bit overblown. All four were Labor strongholds and the LNP did not contest two of them. Was interesting to see the Green vote go down in a couple of them.

      Although I agree, the big winner here is Tones. If he gets his messaging right and goes the StopThePlanes route, he’ll depose Malcolm. Not that I’d vote for the LNP anyway, but we all know immigration cut is the vote winner in this election.

      • All true. I am just looking at that PHON +6.6% swing in Longman and thinking of the number of seats where those preferences will bite.

        I am voting PHON next election purely out of spite, but will never admit it publicly or to a pollster as she is a moron and a F#cking disgrace, and I would not be seen taking their how to vote at the booth. Even though traditionally I hate Labor, I will put them second last and LNP last, again out of spite. Not saying that that I am the median voter, but this line of thinking isn’t exactly lunatic fringe either …

      • Hay d672c804897d I though fundamental economic rationalists were… well… rational agents.

        I still don’t understand the perspective that PHON will deliver or could deliver on your expectations of some immigration policy that suits your preferences e.g. Hanson’s personal track record and its party members dramas don’t suggest such an out come.

        Its almost as bad as some thinking Malcolm would do the – right – thing, because he was “rich” and did not need the money to do the expected thingy….

      • Stephen – I agree, except I see it as unequivocally good for Labor, not overblown. The swing for Labor and/or against Libs in every seat will not be missed by the Lib strategists and backbenchers.

      • @Skippy: I don’t expect her to achieve anything, she may even roll over on immigration 6 months into the next term and learn to love Indians when they start frequenting her fish and chips shop for all I know. It is not rational, at its very highest it is ‘enemy of my enemy’ thinking, no better.

        But if the rules of democracy are that they don’t have to tell the truth then I damn well don’t need to be rational at the ballot box. The way things are going I don’t believe other voters feel they have to any more either.

      • Arrow2…

        My question is has the populist environment changed enough to encourage the political sphere in modifying its previous agenda, you know, being a middle man and all for other concerns.

      • Skip I reckon the cut-immigration voices will get louder and they don’t need to be labelled “populist” given the economic arguments (although even if they are labelled populists, it won’t make a bit of difference to the voters).

    • Here’s the rub tho… if one has a market hard on for unfettered capital movements… its hard to argue against labour moving to seek better deals – too….

      This is exampled by the whole Brexit -EU thingy e.g. Neoliberalism vs. Ordoliberalism.

      • Relevant StakeholderMEMBER

        How does this make the slightest sense? There has been an outflow of productive capacity from the likes of U.S/Australia over the past 40 years, as you have often point out this was due to the desire to reduce the power of labour.

        So because productive capacity moved to the third world… that means third world labour should be welcomed in the first world? To further drive down labour costs? That’ll show the financial elite!

        I’ve become pretty racist over the past 5 years…but in a lot of ways you’re worse skip.

    • Yep, the whole trust us, the strategy is working line has gone out the window. A primary vote of 26% in Longman is lights out time. It is clear to all that the leadership is leading them all to their doom.

      The bench will force change now in order to save their necks. Will Turnbull resist, that is the question.

  25. So: no early election because Turnbull will be worried about a defeat?

    Or an early election because Malcolm will be worried about a leadership challenge?

    • I reckon its far too late for the Torynuffs to ditch a leader from here. The only way they could really ditch is to …..

      a social set woman from Perth (Bishop) with a background in defrauding asbestos sufferers, and has a Chinese funding aroma about her – unlikely I reckon given she has a history of polo appearances, and is sizeable with the A lister circuit (which might be a political encumberment about now)
      a real estate spruiker (Scomo) – but tough given the great Australian real estate cloaca is puckering and he might remind an awful lot of people of the sort of smarm they encountered with an historical purchase
      a right wing caricature (Dutton) – who would be pretty good at driving voters towards the ALParatchiks, and has a coterie group of right wing, flat earth, nutters to provide backing vocals who are pretty much discredited.

      After yesterday I think we can truly discount any early election

      ………so that has me pretty much thinking that Malcolm and the Torynuffs are pretty much bound and gagged and affixed to the spit, and the only real interest from here is watching the writhing as they contort themselves to try and remain even plausibly in the game, or whether they can arrange themselves in such a way as to parlay widespread suspicion about the incoming ALParatchiks into a large enough independent vote to deprive Shorten and co of a workable senate.

      I am not sure the Torynuffs will do that, but it wouldnt surprise me one iota for the ALParatchiks to do something (and I would look first at stepping on an immigration related landmine) which inflames those suspicions

      • Makes a lot of sense. Betting markets for an election this year have lengthened a fair bit too.

        (My only hesitation therefore is that pollies sometimes do things that don’t make sense … and in this case the Abbott crew might be especially tempted!)

      • If they went with Dutton they could at least flick the reset switch and formally say “no more mass immigration”.

        Game, set, match.

      • @Jason

        Mutton won’t do such a thing, don’t you worry about that! He’ll flap his thin lips about it, but he won’t do sh*t… The moment he does, he’ll be so out on his ear, his ass will overtake him.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      I thought they went for the long run into this weekend because they were tossing up going the full monty in August. Otherwise the timetable is too tight with footy finals then Vic election then festive season then NSW election. Reckon they bottled it because they knew they’d lose so went some trial runs to test tactics.

      So another 10-12 months of hilarity ensuing.

      • Yep. Any sniff of encouragement and they would have gone early.

        Now they will be running 12 months into a housing bust. In theory that should kill them but they might be more tempted to throw stupid amounts of election bribes at houses instead. Hmmm. Never know what to wish for (except an asteroid onto Parl House in a sitting week, that one’s easy).

      • yeborskyMEMBER

        Dead right. Mal’s presser on the box this morning had so much absurd spin on it, I was just amazed that a person we once thought had actually rescued us from Abbott, could keep a straight face in the process. Unfortunately, we’re going nowhere whoever wins the next election.
        ps SAP must headline the low immigration plank in its platform to have any chance of being heard.

    • Turnbull pumped over a $1m into getting his sorry ass reelected, not in a month of Sundays will he let any other LNP member, especially from the Conservatives, become PM.

      • Indeed. They will have to overthrow him. If they reckon it’s necessary to save their necks, I reckon they’ll hesitate all of about eight seconds.

  26. Look at the 4 c#nts in this photo. Like they are all getting ready to waddle down to the ABC studios for an evening of QWANKA to cheer on Tony as he moderates observations about how calling for reduced levels of immigration is fringe redneckism. Can’t cop density built to attract rich migrants though? F^%$ing hypocrites. Never thought I would loath my own race so much. At least the dog is black, don’t mind him.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/no-regard-for-design-and-beauty-why-bondi-junction-is-an-eyesore-20180727-p4zu3i.html

      • Yes, that man scarf combo needs to be licensed.

        “..Dr Jones suggested decision-makers did not understand “the key ingredients of liveability or put simply, how to do density well”……..in the suburbs he and his chums like to walkies their pure bred Tobys. He recommends somewhere better to suited to high density and congestion, though if those distant suburbs want to deliver tasty treats on bicycle he is up for that as it will remind him of his frequent breaks in exotic and vibrant locations around the globe.

      • Scarf on over a t shirt with thin jacket not buttoned up. You f#ck knuckle. Hanging offence. Preferably with your own scarf.

        At least in Canberra when people wear scarves 1) they need it and 2) it’s the last thing to be added, only when it’s actually really cold and the rest of you is already properly covered.

      • Rock stars wear scarfs. But I agree this inner city trendy fruitcake would virtue signal his heart out while complaining about density in his own suburb. So long as we shove brown people out West it’s fine.

        Reminds me of this Chasers spoof.
        https://youtu.be/WH_MBwQhGgA

      • @h you’re a fcuking legend. If you’re ever in Canberra I’d be very pleased buy you a beer.

      • What if the market embraces progressive ID politics as a sales multiplier, shades of the gays in L.A. stamping bills in the 80s with symbolism to inform the conservative market of its purchasing power… what would be rational…

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      No, I was triggered by the scarf and rolled up jeans …

      ROFL… made my day! Well said.

    • they right though even if they are wankers, bondi junction is sh!t. none of those losers would ever support actually making the change necessary to prevent future bondi junctions though, i.e cut immigration.

      • +1 Bondi is an over crowded dump… I hate it. I’m sure in the 70s-90s it was great but it’s a victim of its own success and is now suffering for it. Wasn’t it Bob Carr who said access to the beach will need to be rationed off? Thanks to mass migration?

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      I worked in Bondi Junction for over 20 years, I would say the residents there have not become more ‘multicultural’, as it is too expensive for new immigrants. There are actually less Japanese now compared to before. Bus loads of Chinese tourist do get dropped off right outside the Apple store everyday, however come night time the place becomes desserted.

      You need to compare it to somewhere like Parramatta, now THAT s a drastic change in just 10 years.

    • Doc…you’re a man after my own heart.

      If I’m ever crook, I want you looking after me.

      “Strange…he died shouting for help from a hexadecimal number…software engineers are such odd people”

    • I feel so sorry for tasweigens that have been infiltrated by both mainland aussie infestor scum and mainland chinese infestor scum. Getting raped out of their own houses. It’s pretty tragic to be honest.

      Edit: hopefully the scum of both boomer aussies and elderly chinese get to battle it out in the woefully inadequate tasmanian emergency department waiting areas. With the Chinese hocking loogies at the boomers whilst the boomers throw empty latte cups at the chinese. Maybe a new game show?

      • The Traveling Wilbur

        I’d be interested to hear MB subscriber numbers on a state-by-state basis…

      • I desperately hope the contagion from Sydney and Melbourne with regard to the recent price falls spread to Hobart.
        Can’t come fast enough…

  27. TailorTrashMEMBER

    Westpac seem to be spending a lot of money on this Ad at the moment ….sorry but just don’t get it ……what lucrative segment are they targeting …and to what end?…………..Widows with a stash?……lord knows where this leads ………….https://youtu.be/LPMyxaDEsf8

    • Its the end game, and they know it. But no one wants to be blamed when it all goes pear shaped, so you see this sort of stuff. Extinction burst, basically the organisation tries all sorts of random stuff, just before it dies.

      Think about the US presidential election, right to the end there was large scale spending by the Democrats in NY and California. Its a symptom of the ‘i-did-my-bit’ to avoid being blamed when it all goes pear shaped. Is not going to make a difference, and everyone knows it. But cannot be called out by management, who are too busy engineering exits for themselves anyways.

      Its a form of organisational defection, without being seen to defect. Very hard to reverse, once a critical mass of the organisation no longer ‘believes’, so to speak. Right now, you could probably sell Westpac lemons if you can promise the correct executives a lucrative exit.

      This is the end game, i mean sure, it’ll probably stumble on for a few more years if nothing external kills it first, but as an organisation, they are done in their current avatar. The key thing to watch for, is when senior executives in Westpac’s legal team start to exit.

    • How bizarre indeed, like a bank gives 2 hoots about the death of someone, too busy pillaging and metaphorically raping those less fortunate financially … I hope what T said is correct. 😀

    • looks like it was set in the 1930s-40s, as if a wog with a nose like that was getting with a waspy anglo girl at that time lol

      i mean look at the beak on that homeboy wtf

  28. Here is a strange event. Whilst browsing one of the links someone posted (probably haroldus), I saw a youtube link to My Favourite Martian S01Ep01. On a whim I clicked it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf5Chh88dXE

    It turns out that My Favourite Martian (c. 1963) was a very witty and well structured comedy. The Martian – played by the very urbane Ray Walston – was a masterclass in comedic timing and subtlety. Who would have guessed? Bill Bixby played the comedic foil to perfection. I think it was a masterpiece.

    What happened to us over the last 50 years? The current dross on the TV is pathetic. There have been some highlights like Seinfeld, but in general, how we have fallen.

    • Hey man…huge MFM fan here…the way his antannae went up behind his head. That stuff still makes me grin…glad I’m not the only one.

    • haroldusMEMBER

      When I was a kid I loved that show. I was too young to know what was going on, but it was like a gateway into another world (suburban America).