Hanson scuttles sensible immigration debate again

By Leith van Onselen

One Nation leader, Pauline Hanson, gave an interview with 2GB’s Michael McLaren where she talked about tougher citizenship requirements, unsustainable population growth and immigration.

In the interview, Ms Hanson actually makes some sensible points, including:

  • Australia hit 24 million people last year 17 years ahead of projection;
  • Directly linking excessive population growth to problems around housing, infrastructure and health;
  • More expensive infrastructure costs;
  • Falling livability in the major cities; and
  • Advocating a population plebiscite to be held at the next election so that Australians can have their say.

Ms Hanson also correctly notes that current mass immigration policy only benefits the big end of town, as well as debunks the claim that immigration can ‘solve’ an ageing population.

However, towards the end of the interview, Ms Hanson also attacks the “rapid” growth in Muslim immigration.

Sustainable Australia claims (with justification) that Pauline Hanson has copied its policies regarding the matter and is concerned that she may scuttle chances of a rational debate. On their Facebook page they wrote:

Pauline’s script writer has clearly been reading our policies and message points. Rather than now JUST ignorantly attacking minorities, she now talks of a “sustainable” population, jobs, housing, big business greed for more customers and the population “ponzi”. Sound familiar?

She’s even stolen our policy calling for a population plebiscite!

The problem is, she poisons everything she touches – which creates a MAJOR push back from the ruling elites – that leads to the exact OPPOSITE outcome that she pushes for.

Pretty soon into the interview she turns on minorities again, thus poisoning our sustainable population message with religious clothing issues.

We need to address the population issue from the common-sense political centre, not the hard right or hard left.

Like the hard left, Pauline Hanson is an ongoing catastrophe for the sustainable population cause. Agree / disagree?

I have mixed feelings on this. While I am relieved to see Ms Hanson take a more sensible line on immigration policy – and in fact advised her to do so – I too worry that the mainstream political parties and media will automatically play the racism / xenophobia card, throw the baby out with the bathwater, and oppose any suggestions to lower immigration purely because Ms Hanson supports doing so.

We already saw this happen in the late-1990s when The Greens stupidly jettisoned their stable population policy to differentiate themselves from One Nation, in turn supporting a ‘Big Australia’ to the detriment of Australia’s natural environment.

Rather than taking their cues from One Nation, Australia’s mainstream politicians and media should focus on protecting the living standards of the ordinary voters they purport to represent.

The Left, in particular, would do well to take a leaf out of Bernie Sanders’ playbook and rethink their advocacy of ‘open borders’, which is playing directly into the hands of the capitalist elites that they supposedly oppose.

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Comments

  1. Hanson’s an idiot.

    Get on board the debate Labor and Greens (and their voters) or Hanson will be running the country. The electorate have had enough.

  2. You or David said “only the right wing media is capable of having a debate on immigration”. I think only the corporate-tax-cutting right wing is capable of cutting immigration.

    How come you do not write about immigration into Britain? She is a PM that has actually cut immigration hard.

    Net immigration to the UK was 230,000 in the year to June, sharply down on the 336,000 figure recorded a year earlier. But the government’s target is to cut immigration to the “tens of thousands”.

    As a result, the unemployment rate in Britain is the lowest it has been since 1975!

    Has Jacinda cut immigration? No mention of it in her list of achievements:

    https://www.interest.co.nz/news/91882/government-completes-its-100-day-plan-here-what-it-has-done

    Perhaps she is a Gillard:

    cuts of 20 to 30,000 was the policy, after they get in government, suddenly the “numbers aren’t important “, well they were when you were looking for votes.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11985452

    • Would be good to have more coverage of Britain here, because of it being a big foreign investor in Oz

      • Because:

        Both nations have so much in common and AUS looks to Britain for ideas.

        Britain has actually cut immigration hard! How did they stand up to vested interests? And how do they catch illegal-wage immigrants?

        Turnbull has looked towards the British fibre rollout as a model for Australia

        TAKE-OUTS FOR AUSTRALIA FROM OFCOM REPORT ON UK TELECOMMUNICATIONS

        Both had a parliamentary expenses scandal and I heard that Britain has a solution – politicians can go on trips and an ombudsman looks at every new claim and approves it or denies it (the politician has to pay from his own pocket).

        I read that Britain is re-inventing the degree. So a student would go and study but not study irrelevant subjects. We need that here.

        Both nations are a part of the 5 eyes. There is a proposal to have free movement of people in CANZUK (Canada + AU + NZ + UK).

        Did not Britain get free healthcare before AUS did? Both nations have a shared history and still have the same head of state.

        Qantas is going to fly non-stop from PER to LHR in a few weeks. The free market has decided to created AU versions of British newspapers – The Guardian, Daily Mail, The Spectator and Sky News AU relays Sky News UK after midnight. Not some Indian channel, not a Chinese channel, nor an American channel.

    • The Mayor of London is in Canberra with a business delegation. He meets today with Morrison. On the agenda- free trade agreement and “making it easier for exchange of labour”. You know what that means!

  3. No use tip-toeing and pussy-footing around the MSM pandering to the three incumbants, just vote Hanson and be done with it.

    • Exactly. Labor and Greens need to be wiped out. Their recent brand of politics is a disgrace and should never be seen again. It’s not in the country’s interests.

  4. DarkMatterMEMBER

    This argument about “poisoning the debate” is a bit silly. If the “debate” is derailed by a bit of racist histrionics, then it is not a debate at all. The implication is that reasonable facts cannot stand on their own merit unless dressed in safe-space sugar and spice. The implication is that if feebled brained aussies hear some bad words, then they will have a hissy fit and vote for as much immigration as they can swallow – out of spite. That’s what the Greens did!

    Many of the people on this blog may hate it, but in fact there are two issues here for a lot of Australians. First, the issue that our government is using mass immigration to prop up a mismanaged and failing economy is causing people a lot of grief. Second, many people are growing increasingly alarmed about the danger of bringing in members of a volatile and aggressive ideology, as witnessed in Europe. No matter how much you jump up and down and say “racist”, “sickening” and “vile”, both these issues are concerns – although God only knows why ordinary people have started to link rampant immigration with crazy zeolots running amok with a knife. PH is just doing what she has always done – she tries to present the views of the people who vote for her. It is a simple idea, and I can’t think of another politician that does that.

    As for SAP,
    Pretty soon into the interview she turns on minorities again, thus poisoning our sustainable population message with religious clothing issues.
    well, they are too wishy washy and petty to do any good in politics. They obviously live in a world where they represent people who resent the population ponzi and who are politically correct at the same time. That might narrow their followers to about 50% of MB. Good luck with that.

    • The SAP also has nothing to say about UBI. I thought we want immigration slashed hard in order to make us plebs better off?

      • $87 p.h. for residential disability support workers on public holidays, $100 for a sleepover, $66 p.h. on Sundays. Or you could rave on about UBI.

      • bourkl, men who are willing to work in aged care are discriminated against. Ditto men wanting to work as primary school teachers and receptionists.

        And then there is this:

        Australian Army bans male recruits to get female numbers up

        A gender quota has been enacted by Fire and Rescue NSW.

        In December last year, this year’s crop of new recruits at Fire and Rescue NSW (FRNSW) entered the service. Fifty per cent of them were women.

        THE RECESSION SAW men being hit harder by unemployment than women.

        That’s according to two new studies

      • You are wrong. White, Australian men rise to the top in aged care and disability, as they do in every other profession, including primary school teaching (maybe not reception work). They have the added advantage of being able to lift in physical occupations such as aged care and disability. Besides, being “discriminated against” would mean $1400 for your typical weekend.

      • @astrolin Politically correct means accepting the consensus view above the facts. The “racist” word in Australia is now just a general purpose pejorative. In North Sydney area, for example, you will encounter other races and cultures constantly. Nobody bats an eyelid. Zero problems. Go out towards Bankstown and people begin to be concerned – not because of skin colour or race, but because of observed behaviour.

        Australians are overall pretty easy going. What rubs people the wrong way is when immigrants come with a whole lot of ideological and religious baggage. Quite a lot of people, not unreasonably, read the media and have formed the view that Middle eastern/Muslim immigrants as a group bring way too much baggage. That isn’t racist, it is just human nature. Generalisation and threat identification have been useful social tools for many thousands of years. They are hardwired into us.

      • Go out towards Bankstown and people begin to be concerned – not because of skin colour or race, but because of observed behaviour.

        What’s particularly curious is you never see any antisocial or criminal behaviour outside “those” groups in these same communities, or in other communities with similar educational/employment/economic profiles, right ?

        Quite a lot of people, not unreasonably, read the media and have formed the view that Middle eastern/Muslim immigrants as a group bring way too much baggage.

        Amazing how accurate and unbiased the media is when we need it to be, right ?

    • I agree.
      Looking at the recent survey
      https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australians-support-partial-ban-on-muslim-immigration-survey
      MB is assuming that the half of Australians who want fewer Islamists are the same people who want lower immigration in general, and are politically motivated by it.
      This is not necessarily true. The three quarters of Australians who want lower population growth may not be the same people, or may mot be politically as committed..
      DM’s argument is correct. There are different arguments for both, but neither subsumed the other. The “racist” slur is basically BS when dealing with Saudi funded political Islam and these words are losing their sting in the light of the neck stabbings and planned shootings. There are people who would far prefer Buddhists and Hindus to Islamists.

      • i doubt this. the correlation between supporting muslim immigration restriction and reducing immigration overall is going to be very high, 0.65+ high.

      • I think you are right, but even given .65. adding one third on sees the resistance to immigration up to 90% from 75%

      • 1 or 2 years ago, I concluded that the ALA party wants to swap Muslim immigration for Buddhist and Christian immigration. As if that solves the problem of shrinking wages and disappearing school ovals.

        The ALA manifesto says that the SBS should be privatised. Maybe they want the ABC to be privatised too. What a bunch of clowns.

        I am afraid Hanson wants mass immigration of Christians – she passes LNP legislation more often than Cory does!

    • DarkMatter – I think that’s exactly what this blog is implying. Unfortunately however I side with blog and general herd psychology/human nature; people are tribal by nature and by bringing up Muslims she is effectively causing most of the left to not just switch off but completely rebel against any facts she presents.After all they are a tribe just like any other; a very strong one in fact often IMO not capable of critical thinking (a.k.a. the Greens supporting population growth even if they should be an environmental party when in reality they are a tribe with a mostly socialist bent; sad fact is if they actually were I would vote for them). e.g tribal thinking google youtube video – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S74C-XF9kYY

      It might not matter though; while she is alienating one tribe she is definietely appealing to another; the one that typcially listens to 2GB. She is talking to 2GB here who have a lot of listeners that are anti-Muslim migration; she is appealing to that audience’s emotions. I’m not sure overall whether that’s a bad thing – in fact it might get her more traction that the SAP approach. After all that burka stunt she pulled while slammed by the media (one tribe) in quiet a lot of people ancedotially approved/thought it was fantastic (another tribe) – they know that too.

      Sadly the tribe that typically reads this blog, looks at data, etc is probably a minority.

  5. Pauline will pick up more voters by adding in a few sensible lines.
    SAP should relish the debate, get out there.

    • St JacquesMEMBER

      Yep. SAP should see these as opportunities to raise their public profile.
      Tell everyone about them.

  6. St JacquesMEMBER

    Sometime in my paranoid moments (which are getting longer all the time) I think she and her friends are actually diversionary stooges, although there’s an excellent chance they’re just useful idiots for the Big Australia rent seekers who are screwing us over.

    Who ever you choose, give your first or second preference in the Senate to the Sustainable Australia Party.

    • It’s not paranoid.
      Politics are not a fair play game.
      Pauline “it” Hanson knows her role hence the winding up/down of the core value it represents: -phobia and -ism to the tune of the daily requirement.
      *Excessive* immigration fits well her core value of “wrong immigration” only when superficial is the depth of the observation.
      “similia similibus curentur”… homeopathy is not a cure neither is -ism and -phobia view to immigration a solution for *excessive* immigration (ask Germans).

  7. MatrixTransformMEMBER

    For years we have housed overseas students mostly theyre doing a Masters in something.
    The latest finished her Masters last year and is now looking for a 457 visa.
    She told me herself 457 Temporary Skilled Work … not a 485 which is Temporary Graduate work !!
    The thing is along with meeting requirements for having private health insurance she is also taking Bar and Coffee courses.
    Now I thought the 457 required a sponsor and that they worked FOR the sponsor in an occupation on the Skilled List?

    So this is starting to annoy me.

    Immigrant obviously looking to ward permanence at some point with Masters in Linguistics cheats visa and takes Barista job from my own daughter who is even more qualified with an Honours in Performing Arts.

    2018 may be the year that the farce comes to an end

  8. The reality is not that PH will scuttle the debate but that she will fire up the debate and the ALP and Green middle class virtue signallers will place virtue before everything else and be wedged out of the next election.

    The ‘moderate’ population position will come from the likes of Abbott and Co and they will wedge Do Nothing Malcolm.

    After winning the election they will then do nothing to reduce numbers.

    They will find some excuse for inaction.

    SAP will just have to accept that if they want to be the reasonable immigration party they are going to have to fight for it.

    Discriminating against prejudiced fundamentalists or incompatible prejudice rich cultures might be PH’s popular point of difference.

    Does Sydney really want to increase the number of SSM plebiscite NO voters?

    By the way when is the campaign to address the prejudice out here in Sydney’s west on that subject going to start?

    It has gone very quiet since the SSM survey.

    75% No vote in ALP Blaxland
    61% No vote in Parra

    • The trouble with a single-issue party like the SAP is, like the Greens before it, once they achieve their single goal they will lose the reason for their existence. The members will need to agree on the other issues to avoid the breakup, which may not be possible.

      Trying to agree on “the other issues” beforehand will lead to what the Greens found themselves in.

  9. Yes – she is a fool and her comments about Muslims are a disgrace. The vast majority of Muslims in this country are quiet, law abiding people who get on with their lives without causing problems for anyone and are a lot less offensive than fat drunken / drug taking tattooed caucasians. I cannot stand the sound of her voice and she seems to have the intellect of a mango.

    That said, I am still voting for her – if only to demonstrate to the major parties and the Greens that forming a cartel on immigration and shutting down any debate on the issue has a price.

      • Reduction in population growth.

        Today’s Greens dying and a new environmental party forming.

        Today’s Labor dying and a new workers party forming.

        Both have gone too far and are unsalvageable.

      • I’ll butt in here, first to bring the Immigration Program back to a sustainable intake of 70,000 pa maximum, secondly, by reducing numbers by this amount it puts a drag on the rapidly growing Asianisation of the country,
        Hope this is sufficiently moderated for the censors.

  10. I’m completely mystified as to how Islam became the darling of the left, it has misogyny, bigotry and homophobia baked into it, and being the “eternal word of god” means there’s little chance of a reformation. It’s essentially a supremacist movement wrapped in the cloak of religion.

    • The interesting answer to that is that the radical far left wants to tear down western society – and by default, venerates anything that is anti-West, even if it is a vile institution.

      Its the same perversion where you had the Nazi’s respecting the Japanese Empire considering them Honorary Aryans for how they were “purifying” their race and region, even though privately they considered them sub-human.

      • And here I thought it was because of the happy coincidence – you know, import people who are completely dependent on you, and hey, they vote your way.

        If they are also religious fanatics with a completely different mindset, clearly they need more care, and so expanded budgets for other reliably left leaning voter blocks. Wins all around no?

        And if the locals object, just ramp ‘diversity’ and ‘vibrancy’ to where your opponents live, that’ll learn ’em.

    • Agree, Mr Walker. I did put in a much longer comment which was rejected, but I said that Pauline Hanson probably shouldn’t raise Muslim immigration and just stick to immigration numbers overall. yet it’s possible to support less immigration in general at the same time as less Muslim immigration.

    • I’m completely mystified as to how Islam became the darling of the left, it has misogyny, bigotry and homophobia baked into it, and being the “eternal word of god” means there’s little chance of a reformation. It’s essentially a supremacist movement wrapped in the cloak of religion.

      I’m completely mystified as to where this idea that “Islam [is] the darling of the left” even comes from.

      Is it because you guys are incapable of grasping concepts that aren’t polarised ?

      • its less a darling as it is a subject of apologia and equivocation. you’re a pro at pretending you dont know what’s up drsmithy.

        the left and right are topsy turvy at the moment: youve got the left shucking and jiving for islam while the right are hot with anger about it, despite it being a belief system that embodies traditionalism. crazy world.

      • Don’t hurt yourself hauling those goalposts around.

        I hear about “the left shucking and jiving for [extremist] Islam” all the time, yet actual examples of same seem thin on the ground.

        The people on the right with the vapours about how Islam treats women (and homosexuals) tend to have views that only differ in scale, rather than principle. This suggests they care less about the treatment of women (et al), and more about who is doing it.

  11. This is why I want Abbott no where near this debate. He’s a wrecker, it’s all he knows and he’ll wreck this.

  12. Every now and then I wonder if I should visit this site more often, and maybe subscribe. Then I see garbage like this (and the comments are worse) and I remember why I rarely come here any more.

    Hanson is a disgrace. She can sometimes correctly identify discontent, however she has no interest in sustainable population. She is driven by fear and racism. Trying to rationalise it by associating her with a legitimate issue is dumb populism.

    I’m out.

  13. i don’t really think the debate is being poisoned. punters are more concerned/scared of muslims than they are about population growth issues. videos of screaming crowds running away from a bomb in paris motivate people to a position far more than abstract arguments about land prices and diluted fixed resource endowments, which most people don’t understand to begin with.

      • You are more likely to get hit by lightning than be harmed by a Muslim terrorist in Australia.

        I’m FAR more worried about Australia becoming a nation of bigoted and racist a**holes.
        Seems like we are part way there, already. Shame.

        And I agree with the point of this article, Hanson is the ENEMY of those like Sustainable Australia Party who want to have a mature, evidence backed discussion about the population Ponzi. One Nation always sucks the oxygen out of the room with their nonsense anytime somebody wants to rationally discuss immigration.

      • so what? would you rather have next to no chance or a low chance? terrorism is a legitimate concern, what kind of asshole tells someone wanting to mitigate a serious risk like terrorism that they’re not legitimate to do so? just out of your perverted, worship of phony tolerance slave morality.

        western targeted terrorism is indeed actually (in terms of the deaths it renders) a fairly minor problem, but that doesnt make it the only rationale for restricting islamic immigration, nor an illegitimate rationale in itself. indeed, the most serious issue with immigration of this kind is the inevitable loss of social cohesion that results from introducing such a culturally different population into australia. this is manifesting as we speak. this does not necessitate hate, antipathy or resentment of any kind, but rather represents an acknowledgement that people around the world are different and often countries can be most structurally cohesive if certain differences are not introduced or fostered on a large scale. this is a reasonable position in my view, and i would say the exact same thing about any muslim country that decided to start importing, say, large numbers of russian orthodox christians into it for some reason. fortunately, muslim countries are not full of mushheads like you, so these kinds of problems are things they do not have to deal with. good for them, though what is good for the goose is obviously good for the gander.

        and a little aside, dont you all find it funny how you have characters like DT and terror australis who loudly proclaim their tolerance and distaste for bigots but demonstrate themselves always to be the biggest bigots of all? stomping their feet and demanding certain posts not be made, certain topics not be broached, threatening to leave, etc. characters like these are the most fanatically intolerant people on the planet and want the entire world to be governed in exactly the same manner, and all peoples, cultures and demographic compositions across the planet to be identical. it truly is ridiculous that such humorless, totalitarian scolds can claim a monopoly on moral virtue and tolerance, but this is just part and parcel of the clown world we currently reside.

      • You are more likely to get hit by lightning than be harmed by a Muslim terrorist in Australia.

        This is a terrible argument. As a point of logic, being hit by lightning is a random event, being attacked by a jihadist is far less random.

      • If public safety were the concern then banning private vehicle ownership would be a far more productive endeavor.

        Or if you wanted to keep it religious, the Catholic Church has caused orders of magnitude more harm to Australians.

        But we all know it’s got nothing to do with public safety.

      • @Terror Australis – all countries are full of racists, bigots – it just takes a good dose of social engineering, aka multiculturalism to bring it to the surface.

      • @Terror Australis “You are more likely to get hit by lightning than be harmed by a Muslim terrorist in Australia.”

        Australian Police are ever vigilant for this sort of thing (terrorism) and have foiled several planned attacks, including planned beheadings. I tried putting a link up before but my comment was rejected, however you can google this. No other group organises (or tries to organise) such events.

      • and a little aside, dont you all find it funny how you have characters like DT and terror australis who loudly proclaim their tolerance and distaste for bigots but demonstrate themselves always to be the biggest bigots of all? stomping their feet and demanding certain posts not be made, certain topics not be broached, threatening to leave, etc. characters like these are the most fanatically intolerant people on the planet and want the entire world to be governed in exactly the same manner, and all peoples, cultures and demographic compositions across the planet to be identical. it truly is ridiculous that such humorless, totalitarian scolds can claim a monopoly on moral virtue and tolerance, but this is just part and parcel of the clown world we currently reside.

        LOL. Straw man massacre !

    • FiftiesFibroShack

      Contaminated is probably a better word as far as SAP is concerned. It’s definitely not in SAP’s interest to have Hanson ‘borrowing’ their policies, but it gives a bit of depth to Hanson’s offer. Although as you rightly point out it’s the fear of terrorism/Muslims that really drives the support for cutting immigration. I think that’s also why there won’t be any meaningful change to population policy – not yet. If any party were to win on a lower immigration stance they will end up changing their policy to one of immigrant origin, and debate around the actual number will lose importance.

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        By “any party” I mean parties like ON or the LNP; the parties using immigration as a political battle line or dog whistle. Obviously SAP are genuine and wouldn’t change their position.

      • I think different people have different reasons. Some despair of the economic consequences and concern themselves with numbers not constitution, some are more concerned about societal implications than numbers, and others both.

    • She used to say the same thing about asians.

      Now she lets them into her party !

      Are you confident she can stay the course on Muslims ?

      • Nigeria is the next country that will flood the world with migrants, and also majority Christian. Can Pauline hold the line against Christians?

      • In reality there are 2 types of immigrants. The increasingly rare type who wants to be an Aussie and assimilate, and the typical type who just wants to associate with their country folk in a different location.

        I’m happy with a small portion of people who want to be Aussies.
        I’d rather get rid of the rest.

        As for Muslims, they are so different I doubt she would change her mind.

  14. MatrixTransformMEMBER

    Theres always somebody shrieking about bigotry and xenophobia anytime a discussion takes place.

    And the whole time tey demand a better discussion.

    Pretty wierd behaviour

  15. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right…..stuck in the middle with you…

    Hanson has the inverse Midas touch. Everything she puts her hands on turns to shit.

    In Douglas Murray’s “The Strange Death of Europe” he makes the excellent point that the majority of western Europeans have concerns about mass immigration that are not reflected by their politicians, who continue to maintain that they are correct in their ideology while everyone else has got it wrong. Politicians live in their little unreal world in monuments to democracy and take great delight in pointing to the inarticulate and unsophisticated rants of people like Pauline. But what happens when the majority of people are given no choice other than holding their nose and voting for a buffoon? Will we say that racism has now affected the majority like a creeping contagion of hate filled bigotry deep fried in a batter of lament for white Australia? More perspicacious commentators (rare that they are) might see that with the major parties, having policies that do not reflect the will of the people, are the ones driving the Speed bus; if the population intake drops below 100k a year a racist bomb will go off, killing the economy. So keep your foot on the accelerator and don’t worry about the lack of bridges. Jump the social chasms and leap the unfinished bits of road. Just keep driving the bus like an idiot…run over the locals…who cares what they think anyway!

    The Greens without a population policy? The ALP driving down wages and quality of life with mass immigration? LNP trickle-down economics led by a population ponzi scheme, a fire sale of amenity and Mr Tomato doing his bit for native population replacement? Democracy is wonderful.

  16. Every state needs to build bicycle roads. This will help ameliorate traffic congestion.We could build them above train lines or parallel to train lines or just take over existing roads.