Australia’s China meltdown turns nuclear

Via The Australian:

Australia’s ambassador to China has been called into the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs for a dressing down over the Turnbull government’s foreign interference laws amid accusations by Beijing that anti-China ­rhetoric is damaging the relationship.

In a sign of the increasing tensions between the two governments, Jan Adams was officially summoned by Chinese officials on Friday. The Australian has also learned that China’s ambassador to Australia, Cheng Jingye, on Monday made formal representations to the acting secretary of the ­Department of Foreign Affairs, Penny Wil­liams.

As the row deepened, ­Malcolm Turnbull confirmed that the government had made reassurances to Beijing that it was not seeking to single out China with its proposed foreign interference legislation.

Yesterday China’s Global Times newspaper accused Australia of McCarthyism and warned that Chinese people with close ties to Westerners “would be treated like informants to Western spy agencies and be ­accused of treason, like Australian politician Sam Dastyari”.

This followed a strident statement issued by the Chinese ­embassy last week accusing Australian politicians of undermining “mutual trust”. China’s Foreign Ministry went further, directly attacking Mr Turnbull for “poisoning” the relationship.

I hope we’ve got a better line than “it’s not target at you”. Even in the diplomatic circles of professional lying that’s amusing.

Meanwhile, Domainfax is launching a panicked defense of Chinese kow towing:

South Korean President Moon Jae-in has arrived in China with 200 business people, a sign of thaw in frosty relations with its major trading partner.

As tensions rise between the Turnbull government and Beijing, South Korea’s experience is a cautionary tale.

Moon and Chinese President Xi Jinping will meet on Thursday to discuss ways to “normalise” relations. Chinese tourism to South Korea plunged 70 per cent this year.

Beijing banned travel agencies selling group tours as retaliation for South Korea installing a US anti-missile system to protect it from North Korea.

…on Wednesday the Chinese newspaper Global Times editorialised that claims of Chinese infiltration in Australia had spread to New Zealand and Germany like an “infectious disease”.

It warned: “The esteem with which Chinese regard certain Western countries will be downsized, as it becomes necessary for Beijing to retaliate. China needs to figure out tactics that can silently make Western institutions and individuals truly feel the pain.”

The editorial said Beijing’s practice of refusing visas to pop stars could be applied to “provocative Western politicians as a form of deterrence”.

…To strike a thaw, Moon suspended further THAAD installations. But he hasn’t said it will be removed.

Back home in Bennelong:

An angry open letter urging Chinese Australians to “take down the far-right Liberal Party ruling party” by voting against John Alexander in the Bennelong byelection has been shared on social media by a man who allegedly met the Chinese Communist Party’s department tasked with overseas influence activities.

The 1700-word letter, attributed to “a group of Chinese who call Australia home”, urged people to support Labor’s candidate, Kristina Keneally.

“When we look at the Liberal Party we see it’s already totally different from before. It’s a far-right ruling party and they are privately against China, against Chinese, against ethnic-Chinese migrants and against Chinese international students,” it reads in part.

“For the interests of Chinese people, let us mobilise, share this message and use the ballots in the hands of we Chinese to take down this far-right Liberal Party ruling party”.

…”Let us say together: vote against the Liberal Party, protect the dignity of we Chinese!” it says.

While it is not known who authored the letter, it is being shared on the popular Chinese social media app Wechat by Yan Zehua, an Australian citizen who lives in Sydney. Mr Yan is vice president of the Australian Council for the Promotion of Peaceful Reunification of China, which was until recently run by controversial Chinese political donor Huang Xiangmo and has a parent group in China run by officials from the United Front Work Department, a Chinese Communist Party body responsible for building overseas influence.

The Huang Dynasty again! And Labor is just lapping it up playing the race card:

Ms Keneally accused Mr Turnbull of running a One Nation inspired “China-phobic” campaign, saying the large proportion of Chinese voters in the electorate are “alarmed.”

But local Chinese business owners and workers on Wednesday told AAP they weren’t fussed by the prime minister’s rhetoric.

Susan Ha, a travel agent in Eastwood, said most people she knew were concerned with the tax rate for small businesses rather than the political games between the major parties.

“People care a lot for tax … I think they still support the Liberals,” Ms Ha said.

Another worker, who did not want to be named, believed local issues will be at the forefront of Chinese voters’ minds at the ballot box on Saturday.

“What they can do for the community is what’s important here for the Chinese,” she said.

“The people here won’t worry about the international relationships.”

However, an online poll run by local Chinese newspaper Sydney Today showed Ms Keneally was the more popular of the two candidates.

What an astonishing mess. The Coalition did the right thing with its new laws then overcooked its rhetoric to win Bennelong. Labor has done the wrong thing but is now able to overcook its rhetoric to win Bennelong in response. It appears Beijing is backing Labor in Bennelong though can’t say for sure but it is clearly aiming to hurt the tourism and student trade implicitly via a negative media campaign in China that has no other purpose.

As usual it is China that is acting most in Australian’s interests as we need to cut immigration and lower student numbers anyway to take the bid out of realty and the supply flood out of the labour market. With any luck they’ll cut the flow formally.

Meanwhile, our pollies would sell their mothers for a seat in Parliament.

Comments

  1. Of course no mention of the firm rumours that it was the Americans who forced ASIO to leak the Dastyari intel.

    You would think superpower jostling for Australia’s soul would be right up your alley….

  2. GunnamattaMEMBER

    We have ignored China influence – or the negative bits at least – for a long time

    If its Chinese money now causing us to chunder, surely we’d have to accept that as a nation we have been giving it a nudge for 15 years now – Chinese money has deformed our housing market, boosted share prices, been the great boon for agricultural producers, underpinned the corrosion of our education sector, underpinned tourism, been the raison d’etre for casinos and gambling. We have Chinese money ensuring real estate agents have Mandarin and Cantonese speakers available at auctions and chauffeuring Chinese money around Sydney and Melbourne in limousines to cast their eyes over elite properties, Chinese money stumping up for national infrastructure, and being lobbied to do so by governments of all persuasions. Chinese money has created enclaves of suburbs in Sydney and Melbourne. Are we so stupid as to think that Chinese money coming to Australia in such an obvious manner and in such massive sums wouldn’t slip a few bucks into a politician to get some sort of say on how things were run? Are we that profoundly unaware of how things are done in China? Are we that firmly ensconced in our bubble that we have lost touch with how the rest of the world works? Australia has had Chinese intelligence and police operatives obviously at work in Australia as part of Chinese anti-corruption drives, numerous reports of Chinese students being ‘managed’ in Australian universities, and China has been the only real market for almost all of the investment in resources infrastructure of the ‘once in a millennium’ mining boom. Are Australians really so stupid as to think there wouldn’t be another side to that largesse and economic interaction?

    Our politicians – all sides – have been happy to play along

    Then theres our politicians. As disturbing a batch of psychopaths and mouths for sale as has ever been shoe horned into any parliamentary representation anywhere.

    Dastayari may have been the latest sacrifice. But we all know there rest of the story. Cormann, Robb, Barnaby & Julie Bishop (for starters) on one side, and Sam, Bob Carr, Shorten, Bowen etc etc on the other. They’ve known all about China’s rising influence. They have been openly encouraging it. And there has been plenty to encourage for (as outlined above) – they have crafted an economy openly reliant on one trading partner and one asset class (commodity resources) and stripped back Australia’s economy from being competitive at anything else. Have Australians completely missed the national China obsession??

    The answer is no. Most Australians are pretty much aware of the implications of Chinese money. It is fairly obvious all around: in supermarkets buying milk powder by the trolley load, at auctions, in year 12 scores and access to elite courses, at local councils, at state governments, and, of course, Canberra, in boardrooms, on TV and in the press. For sure it has an upside for many. But for many it is also a suspect negative which nobody in mainstream politics has gone within a bulls roar of raising. Anyone wanting to seriously raise any form of question about it has had to go outside mainstream media and mainstream politics.

    Mind the gap

    That gap between the political and media mainstream and Australian society has not been solely about Chinese money in Australia, but Chinese money has been the perfect illustration of that gap. The Chinese money issue is one which has slowly turned into a festering sore on the credibility of mainstream politics and the mainstream media. Until the last year the moment you saw a politician say something about Chinese investment or markets or buying, or something in the media on the same the first thing any sentient person would do would ask ‘what’s the other side of that story?’ (and maybe, ‘why isn’t that being reported?’). Anyone reading Macrobusiness was aware of Chinese buyers of Australian real estate 5 years ago (at least) but its only crept into political discourse and the mainstream media in the last couple of years after it simply became too big to ignore.

    And if you move from Chinese money and what it funds to the general (and equally unmentionable) concept of what money funds who in Australian politics then the picture surely doesn’t get any cleaner. A load of tax avoiding big corporates writing off some political payment expenses as yet another tax lurk, the banks, of course, playing both sides of the pitch, a batch of ideological oligarchs stumping up for the conservative or even green politics, and the Unions for the ALP.

    That is before you get to what sort of favours money buys in the political process. One of the more illuminating Dastayari moments is that word for word mouthing of a statement betraying his political party and national policy on the islands of the South China sea. Can anyone really watch that and not ask themselves what it costs to get a politician to say something (regardless or not of whether they actually believe it? ……do any politicians actually believe in anything anymore? ) How much to get a politician to talk up a free trade agreement? Or rising house prices for an electorate which can no longer afford them without massive debt? How much to get one to talk up tax cuts for big business?

    The whole imbroglio lifts the scab on contemporary Australian politics…..(and it aint pretty underneath). Australians and their politicians need to come to terms with whatever is festering there to heal the gap.

    Slowly but surely we have stripped ourselves back closer to a political core.

    Now that we’ve jettisoned

    A – Dont question the banks
    B – Dont question real estate prices
    C – Dont question tax cuts

    etc etc etc

    We have stripped our way back to

    1 – don’t question where political funding comes from
    2 – don’t question the probity of politicians (notably vis Section 44 – not just nationality – of the constitution)
    3 – don’t question immigration and the juicing of aggregate demand enabled by high levels of immigration

    They probably arent issues that the Turnbull government can get a strategic advantage out of, but only a tactical advantage. PMT is playing a game of chicken with Shorten because if Shorten ups the ante on this latest attack on Dastayari, then it isnt Turnbull and the LNP who get blown out of the water, but Australian politics per se. Turnbull is about trashing any remaining credibility in politics per se, and the next government first and foremost. If he tries to run an election on this he will end up with a further proliferation of small parties and independents – because the mainstream simply stinks that much..

    Malcolm may think he is trying to trash the ALP, and the ALP may say he is trashing himself…

    But its the trashing of Australian politics Australia has to have

    And thats well before you get to the Chinese government and its fulminations …..suitably crazed they will be.

    • If this destroys LNP and Labor, which is looking likely, that’s a fantastic thing. Take Greens with them.

    • Well said grand master…respect. And likewise for David’s “Meanwhile, our pollies would sell their mothers for a seat in Parliament”

      At the end of this, what has all the money brought us. Certainly, not happiness, but a nation that is very cranky. It’s not the Oz I remember. Rather than develop a balance economy, they went for the easy option and sold us out. Why invest in anything other then housing is what happened. The unbelievable thing is that they don’t even care about their kids future. Says it all imo.

      • yep. it’s all very very cranky

        Methinks Meester Gummnit ain’t savvy too well how might angry folks be
        Pity there ain’t a fist fulla folks with lever action 223s gallavanting bout the place
        But then, mebbe that’s the point, innit

        When you’re on a wage of 100K+ and it doesn’t go far, something gotta give

      • +many, but it works as designed, and seems to keep most of the population blissfully unaware of how rigged the system actually is.

  3. I’m not sure it’s ever been so in our faces how much we’ve lost this country.

    It’s time for all non Chinese to vote for Hanson and see if we actually can get our country back.

      • SAP could do well from this if they harden up. They should be screaming “corruption” every day. Expose the Greens for what they are.

        I feel it’s only nutters like Hanson that can get the attention. We really are such a dumb country.

      • Hanson serves the purpose for the incumbent parties to paint all opposition as nut jobs. Telling the Australian people that they really don’t have any choices if they want good governance. If Australia starts by implementing a democracy today and education of voters on their rights and duties then maybe in three generations the country will have responsible government for the people.

      • The Hanson phenomenon is a consequence of the interaction of elective government and an aspect of Game Theory known as the “Schelling Focal Point” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_point_%28game_theory%29).

        In order for their reporting to be considered “newsworthy”, reporters with limited time and resources must focus on those events which they expect others to regard as “newsworthy”. In the political arena, established political parties are a natural focal point for what may be expected to be considered newsworthy, making it difficult for others to gain attention. This allows established parties to “control the narrative”.

        The effect is magnified by the tactic of holding elections for all constituencies on a single day. (Note how this is in contrast to corporate practice where directors retire in rotation each year and stand for re-election.) The simultaneous election of all political agents on a single day ensures maximum congestion of media channels and increases the incentive of reporters to move to the Schelling Focal Point. It helps to explain why a minor party (like the Greens in Northcote) are more likely to win a bye-election than to win in a general election.

        There are good independent candidates out there. Look at Cameron Murray. The problem is that most voters (outside the tiny minority of Macrobusiness readers) have simply never heard of them.

        This goes some way to explaining why aspiring new parties are often outrageous in their behaviour and statements: it is the only way to gain any media coverage. Look at Pauline Hanson, or Nicholas Farage or even Bob Katter.

        But there is an invidious trade-off. Because elective government involves handing a monopoly on power to the winner, many voters are not prepared to support such outrageous candidates, even though they may agree with individual policies.

        This was seen vividly in the Brexit plebiscite. Most commentators fell over themselves to point out the narrowness of the majority in the Brexit referendum. What they failed to note was that 87% of people had voted against UKIP at the preceding general election. While apparently agreeing with UKIP’s policy, the vast majority of voters were not prepared to elect it to government. Had it not been for division within the Tory party there would have been no vote at all, and establishment politicians would have continued reciting the illogical doctrine that a general election victory means they have a “mandate” for each and every one of their policies.

        Around the world, establishment politicians have drawn the vital lesson: “Never, ever again will they make David Cameron’s mistake of allowing ‘bogans’ and ‘deplorables’ to vote on an issue of importance.” The subsequent elections in Europe have merely confirmed that provided the establishment parties don’t break ranks, they have nothing to fear from their Subjects. Elective government is Elite government.

        And even if minor parties and “outsiders” do get to be elected, they usually prove to be a disappointment. Those attracted to politics are inevitably those who yearn to exercise power. After the 2010 election in Britain the Liberal Democrats were given a once-in-a-century opportunity to reform Britain’s voting system and introduce proportional representation. The party leader Nick Clegg threw it all away in return for the chance to be Deputy Prime Minister for five years.

        The closer a party gets to exercising real power, the more it attracts to its ranks those aggressively narcissistic, machiavellian individuals who crave power over all else. We can see that in the Green Party which is currently going through its own little “Night of the Long Knives”, assassinating those original members who were drawn to a party of protest rather than a party of expedient power.

        True Democracy breaks the Elite parties’ stranglehold on the narrative. Once a matter comes up for referendum, it becomes newsworthy whether or not the Elite parties want it to be.

        Without true Democracy the Elite parties will always have the upper hand.

        That is where the battle will eventually need to be fought.

      • There is no need to have more civil politicians, we need a strong leader or we are toast. SAP appears weak just like the alternatives. Weak or inept what a fcuking choice.

      • What if the “strong leader” turns out to be an aggressively narcissistic, machiavellian, corrupt psychopath?

        The history of “strong leaders” is hardly encouraging.

        Unless one re-defines “strong” to mean “pursuing-the-policies-I-personally-agree-with”.

    • I’m really surprised how silent Hanson has been on this, no better opportunity then the clear and present danger. Is it because the media no longer give her coverage or she’s now part of the system and been bought and paid for?

      • Except for the Burqa thing, Hanson is very much smarter with the Press. E.g. the whole citizenship fiasco started with Hanson saying she might go get British dual-citizenship, smart.

      • the punters asked for this
        apart from oN there have been plenty here who warned of this
        101 of leadership says there is no point in being a leader till the tribe decide they need a leader
        when tshf the tribe will look to ON
        How about Ermo realising he has been a fool for how long???

      • if hanson is doing this on purpose, color me very impressed. It must be luck – there is no way she is this smart.

      • I’m really surprised how silent Hanson has been on this, no better opportunity then the clear and present danger. Is it because the media no longer give her coverage or she’s now part of the system and been bought and paid for?

        No Muslims involved.

        Asians are OK, now, there’s even a few of them in the party.

      • Hanson isn’t about Asians now. Her masters have business interests with the Chinese so she won’t rock that boat.
        She is all about Muslims. Focusing on Chinese infiltration will detract from her message that Muslims are the big threat.

        Hanson is a scam

    • And while your at it get a Fck Off We’re Full bumper sticker and Southern Cross decal for the back window.

      • Ain’t nuthin wrong with the Southern Cross Pal, nor putting it on one’s ute.

        Add in a Winchester sticker and wacko, cool AF

        (1st part serious, second part joking)

  4. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    “For the interests of Chinese people, let us mobilise, share this message and use the ballots in the hands of we Chinese to take down this far-right Liberal Party ruling party”.

    …”Let us say together: vote against the Liberal Party, protect the dignity of we Chinese!” it says.”

    Never before in my life have I wanted to Vote for the Liberal Party untill now and I’m in Bennelong.

    Is this reverse Psychology with the Chinese wanting us to actually vote for the Liberals?,…if not they are stupid!,…this alone is enough to completely shutdown visias for Chinese nationals wanting to come to this country.

    It’s time to ween ourselves of this Authoritarian Military dictatorship.

    • EP,
      You can only vote for the candidate that’s running in your electorate. The Labor Party ended up closer to the bottom than the Liberal Party last year, not for policy reasons, but because of dodgy shenanigans at the local level. The ends doesn’t justify the means and there is nothing inconsistent with being a member of a party and voting against it. If people are unable to do that, when they disagree with their preferred party’s behaviour, then they may as well just be blindly supporting a sporting team.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        I agree,…my threat above in genuine.
        I’ll be paying very close attention to what Kristina’s and the Parties response to these latest threats are.

      • EP paying close attention???
        you need to get out there and strip a few threads,
        then have a Damascus event and join ON

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Have you ever heard Pauline trying to utter a sentence Wiley,…I won’t be “protest voting” with a vote for One Nation.
        If only those SAP boys weren’t just another Party crowding out the desperately contended “Centre”,…every bastard wants to claim the Centre for themselves…that’s the problem with politics in this country, no left/right dichotomy, just a parliament full of ambitious, careerist, sycophantic suckholes,… serving the highest bidding Plutocratic interests.

      • “just a parliament full of ambitious, careerist, sycophantic suckholes,… serving the highest bidding Plutocratic interests.”
        That’s how the Westminster system works 🙂

        See Stephen Morris’s comment above for a much more articulate description.

    • EP. I hope there are thousands like you trying to steer the Labor Party’s moral compass back on course. Keep up the fight.

    • Vote Liberal mate! I’m the same as you.

      It warned: “The esteem with which Chinese regard certain Western countries will be downsized, as it becomes necessary for Beijing to retaliate. China needs to figure out tactics that can silently make Western institutions and individuals truly feel the pain.”

      With friends like these who needs enemies? Seriously a few words about concern of a foreign powers influence over another country and suddenly it’s sanctions. Usually you need to invade or try annex another country to get those. :).

      • China is doing a great job steering votes back to Turnbull
        Maybe that’s no coinkidink? Coz, you know, Mal is a Mad Manchurian Man, what with his Asian kin, innit.
        And Glorious Golden Joolez, literally Basking in Her Glorious Golden Shower of Ill Begotten Booty

        Could be super long game by Confucians

      • Isn’t it fun? This panda-poking. Just a little poke and you get a full-on panties-pissing mouth-frothing hair-tearing screaming rant!

        Great sport.

    • EP the problem with the ALP (other parties too no doubt) is that I believe a majority of members are of the same view as you have as we have here at MB. So WHY is the policy at 180 degrees to the will of the membership? That is why ALP is not worth salvaging, it is structured in a way that is so easy for (example) a foreign power to penetrate and infest with its fifth columnists.

  5. adelaide_economistMEMBER

    This is what happens when you run an oversized immigration program in an era where there is basically no reason or impetus for those migrants to be organically assimilated into the host country. Thanks to the internet, cheap plane fares, satellite TV and of course entire suburbs dominated by particular groups of people why would they ever be integrated? The situation made worse obviously by those people not coming from poor or weak countries but one vying to become the world superpower who surely wouldn’t have any interest whatsoever in leveraging those links to achieve their own goals (despite having a history of doing so everywhere in the world their diaspora can be found). I note the media happily running the ‘racist’ accusations but not asking why we have entire electorates that appear able to be swayed by what a foreign dictatorship says. Nothing to see here, obviously.

    • ‘I note the media happily running the ‘racist’ accusations but not asking why we have entire electorates that appear able to be swayed by what a foreign dictatorship says.’ – money quote right here…

      I hope people from the MSM are reading this, as this is exactly why average people consider you liars, thieves and spivs. moral hazard much?

  6. I used to be a labor voter but there behaviour here is a f**king joke. I hate liberals too but I hope they win this seat just to stick it to labor atm. People should be voting independent only to get the swamp drained, if thats even possible.

    • You can’t drain the swamp. the system is the swamp. The only way to drain it is to use a system other than representative elective government, all the complaints people have are caused by the design of the system.

      • Of course the market and it’s rules are entirely controlled by the government,
        so to fix thing, fix government.

      • That means reforming one or more of the legacy parties, the system architecture and networks cannot be willed from thin air, it takes considerable time and effort. In the past this was done by those with considerable wealth and networks, over some decades, results of that is Neoliberalism, Washington Consensus, Third Way. Once such social imperatives become dominate they create their own feed back loops and path dependency.

        This compounded by those that would burn it to the ground rather than compromise or consider the failures associated with it.

        disheveled… some of this stuff is sacred too some people….

    • Do any of you guys now have any idea how The Donald got elected??
      Your leaders sould you out.
      Politicians sold you out
      Business sold you out
      Your neighbours sold you out
      Foreigners sold you out.

      Who have I left out??

    • I would rather keep negative gearing and vote Liberal at this stage, given the way Labor is so tied to Chinese money and influence right now. For once I think Turnbull has been doing a good job on this issue.

  7. heh, forget the economic side for a sec, I can assure you a large growing segment of the youth are becoming well aware they are being demographically replaced for shekels. The “alt right” is well and truly here in Aus, probably tripled or more in the past year at least and has barely started. They are pissed, they are not the bogan’s the media puts forward, they will be your children, you just may not know it yet.

  8. Shame on Labor; LNP dumb for over-cooking it…

    China are not to blame – they are just the most relevant foreign entity at this point in time. I don’t want to USA (etc) fiddling in our foreign policy either (though I know they do)…

    • No. We have never seen anything like what the Chinese are doing now. Utterly unprecedented systematic infiltration with a view to total domination. The Chinese are a very very hostile foreign power.

      • No it is not. And it laughable that you can suggest that in light of US military interventions of recent decades. China pales in comparison.

      • G, correct and prophetic.
        At least they are easy to identify.
        this could end up another Lambing Flat on steroids

      • Spot on Gramus, China has a policy of moving Han Chinese into regions they want to control, eg Tibet and Mongolia. The exit of cash and people from China to aust has been blessed by the powers that be.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if China escalated things so that they ‘need to move to protect the mandarin speakers’ as the Russians did in Ukraine.

        Daniel, why do people bring up the USA, as if two wrongs make a right?

      • USA, military interventions or attempts to otherthrow foreign governments 1945-2014; I’m sure readers can summon memory of interventions of the last few years. These interventions were geographically diverse, often distant, unrelated to home borders or territorial border disputes. This is not to say these interventions were necessarily undesirable but do reflect US intent to exercise its right as it sees it as global dominator.

        China 1949 to early 1960s
        Albania 1949-53
        East Germany 1950s
        Iran 1953 *
        Guatemala 1954 *
        Costa Rica mid-1950s
        Syria 1956-7
        Egypt 1957
        Indonesia 1957-8
        British Guiana 1953-64 *
        Iraq 1963 *
        North Vietnam 1945-73
        Cambodia 1955-70 *
        Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
        Ecuador 1960-63 *
        Congo 1960 *
        France 1965
        Brazil 1962-64 *
        Dominican Republic 1963 *
        Cuba 1959 to present
        Bolivia 1964 *
        Indonesia 1965 *
        Ghana 1966 *
        Chile 1964-73 *
        Greece 1967 *
        Costa Rica 1970-71
        Bolivia 1971 *
        Australia 1973-75 *
        Angola 1975, 1980s
        Zaire 1975
        Portugal 1974-76 *
        Jamaica 1976-80 *
        Seychelles 1979-81
        Chad 1981-82 *
        Grenada 1983 *
        South Yemen 1982-84
        Suriname 1982-84
        Fiji 1987 *
        Libya 1980s
        Nicaragua 1981-90 *
        Panama 1989 *
        Bulgaria 1990 *
        Albania 1991 *
        Iraq 1991
        Afghanistan 1980s *
        Somalia 1993
        Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
        Ecuador 2000 *
        Afghanistan 2001 *
        Venezuela 2002 *
        Iraq 2003 *
        Haiti 2004 *
        Somalia 2007 to present
        Honduras 2009
        Libya 2011 *
        Syria 2012
        Ukraine 2014 *

        There is no comparison.

      • I’m not saying there is a comparison, I’m saying it’s not relevant to the topic. You can’t say one serial killer is ok because another one murdered many more people. They are both bad.

      • You agreed with Gramus who said China was a “very very hostile foreign power”. China’s foreign hostilities are comparitively limited and almost all confined to bordering territorial disputes, domestically authoritarian controls have impacted various ethnic groups within China.

        No doubt, China now sees itself as an ascendant power and would like greater regional influence and respect. However, I would like to see the anti-China readers here provide evidence of widespread foreign hostilities and interventions.

      • Daniel. You haven’t said anything that isn’t true.

        But as JB says, with respect to the topic at hand it’s also irrelevant.

        (Said as someone who has read and internalised everything Noam Chomsky ever wrote, excluding his academic linguistic work)

        And as for your last sentence just above, well that’s what this is all about isn’t it? Let’s all keep paying attention.

      • It is absolutely relevant! Particularly as readers here are portraying China as a hostile foreign power to be feared. There scant evidence to support these assertions. China may want some influence in Australia, of what kind, no one says. To date attempts to “influence” have been marginal indeed. I see little gain for China if all the exhortations from readers here were even remotely accurate.

        Earlier in the thread a reader has written an essay blaming China for every ill that exists in today’s Australia. Ludicrous, yet received much appreciative feedback. From what I can see, most readers here are upset about house prices in the major cities and blame the Chinese. Stupid. But they seem to really believe it. Scapegoating is what it is. The other day there was even a comment calling the Chinese the Yellow Devil…we’ve been here as a nation before and it’s shameful.

        Finally, Australia now seems incapable of a sophisticated nuanced dialogue, everything is black or white. From a defence and strategic relations position, things have deteriorated to the old dichotomy, you’re with the USA or the Communists. This is so last century and partly why I lean to a more toward the a more accomodative view of China than most here.

      • People who aren’t aware, should be advised that “Daniel” is almost certainly our old mate 3d.

      • One star exists, higher than all the rest. This is the apocalyptic star. The second star is that of the ascendant. The third is that of the elements — of these there are four, so that six stars are established. Besides these there is still another star, imagination, which begets a new star and a new heaven

        The Hermetic And Alchemical Writings Of Paracelsus
        Seems as applicable today as it was 500 years ago, maybe that suggests the quote says more about human nature than Chinese meddling.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        @Daniel,

        Your,…”Australia now seems incapable of a sophisticated nuanced dialogue,”

        Has me thinking I don’t understand some subtle nuance, in the following words from the CCPs propaganda mouthpiece,…maybe you could provide an accurate interpretation of the below,… that doesn’t have me thinking we should be cutting all ties with this Nuclear armed military dictatorship.

        It warned: “The esteem with which Chinese regard certain Western countries will be downsized, as it becomes necessary for Beijing to retaliate. China needs to figure out tactics that can silently make Western institutions and individuals truly feel the pain.”

        What am I misinterpreting?,… Daniel?

      • I think what they are saying is that they haven’t quite got the handle of directly own individual politicians yet in this Westminster system – though there have been moderate success to date.

      • Don’t fret Ermington, that’s just the propaganda mouthpiece giving tit for tat. The past weeks have seen anti-China sentiment escalate in the Australian media and political sphere. China is just reminding who butters our bread.

  9. Everything Turnbull touches turns to mud, everything.

    This could have been a very simple relatively clean process if handled with finesse. Dastyari gone because he’s a liarbility, Shorten had to be pressured but ultimately he’s never shied from throwing anyone under a bus.

    Cherish old friends, welcome new, rethink re-engagement in the Quad. Can the Thucydides Trap be averted: only by extensive and sophisticated statework, so please, keep Turnbull and Bishop muzzled as thus far they have not demonstrated one iota of elegance.

  10. Reminds me of the end of Blazing Saddles…. OK… everyone except the Irish – !!!!… nods all around…

    • I think whats being manipulated is the voter pool. Also, how many old people have voted the same way they have since the 1950s. Ticking the same box there parents taught them or whatever. Wasnt there a story I read a while back where political parties where trying to bring in certain demographics because it meant they’d get more votes?

      I dont think Pauline has a chance. I dont hate her but in a Country that votes Liberal/Labor in majority of cases, I find it hard to see how she’s going to get elected. Its the same for Sustainable Australia I think. They’ll go to all the trouble of forming party with Candidates but the Australian Voters wont be willing to take a risk.

  11. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    In a discussion paper for the high-powered China Matters conference, Stephen FitzGerald wrote that Beijing’s sway over ethnic Chinese communities in Australia was palpable and extended to “the surveillance, direction and at times coercion of Chinese students through [People’s Republic of China (PRC)]-directed or controlled student associations”.

    Some of the activity in Australia was being “directed by the Propaganda Department of the CCP Central Committee, whose role in China is to police people’s adherence to the views of the Party State and enforce ‘correct’ thinking”, the paper said.

    The former diplomat said what made China’s influence peddling exceptional was that it brought “Australian and Chinese national interests, and values, into direct contention, challenging fundamentals of our system like freedom of speech and the media and enquiry, and the very validity of our political system”.

    • Absolutely but the hideous reality is even worse.
      Australians can’t even conceptualize how totally incompatible the CCP is with the Australian way of life. And how Chinese influence will ultimately destroy us if it is allowed to continue unchecked.

      In China the CCP is the only independent institution. It systematically and ruthlessly destroys any alternate institutions/power centers which one day could challenge it.
      it is politically absolutist. It shares no power and seeks control of everything. In coming to Australia it will seek to do what it has already done in Hong Kong which has been destroyed as an open liberal society.

      It is described as ‘guoqing’. Read the following.

      “I propose to show that as part of China’s extension of guoqing abroad, Beijing seeks to penetrate and influence Australia’s small, open and inclusive society. It seeks to restrict Australians’ freedoms of speech, religion and assembly. It threatens social harmony. Where it succeeds, it breaches Australian sovereignty and security.”

      http://insidestory.org.au/beijings-guoqing-versus-australias-way-of-life/

      • Top read! Had no idea of the depth and scale of Beijing’s local influence through those ‘agreements’ designed to suppress ‘unfavourable’ news and historical events. What’s not discussed ( but self-evident’) is the collusion by the established MSM to allow and enable this to protect the vast business interests domiciled in AUS. Their ‘nerve’ can be currently measured by quantifying our lack of nerve. Solid rec’s from the author in creating a better framework and it will require great resolve that seems to be absent of late. And,we’ll have to square our jaw and clear our throat properly so ‘that’ voice doesn’t squeak at the podium. What’s more, we’ll have to practice saying ‘no’ as our legacy is an ‘as you wish’, sir endless chant of ‘yes’..