Why aren’t the unions at war with the great immigration scam?

Yesterday Domainfax reported:

Four out of five businesses advertising Australian jobs on Chinese, Korean and Spanish language websites are offering illegal pay rates as low as $4.20 per hour, a new audit has found.

Two separate audits conducted this year and last year found 78 per cent of 200 job advertisements examined were offering pay rates below minimum award rates.

All of the Chinese and Korean advertisements were for jobs in NSW, mostly in Sydney. The Spanish advertisements for were for jobs around the country.

The audit conducted by Unions NSW identified widespread migrant exploitation and alleged wage theft, particularly in the hospitality industry.

…Mr Morey said migrant workers often knew they were being ripped off, but lacked the confidence, language skills and support to stand up for their rights. Their visa or residency status was often used to threatened them against complaining about underpayment and exploitation.

“This is wage theft on a massive scale. And it’s being perpetrated against people ill-equipped to fight back,” Mr Morey said.

More today:

Popular Melbourne restaurant Dainty Sichuan allegedly paid employees $10 an hour while they worked 10 hour-plus shifts, seven days a week.

The Fair Work Ombudsman has commenced legal action in the Federal Circuit Court against the companies behind Tina’s Noodle Kitchen in Box Hill and Dainty Sichuan, on Swanston Street in the CBD, for the alleged underpayments.

The restaurants allegedly underpaid their staff almost $31,000 in just a two-week period.

The allegations have the potential to embarrass lord mayor Robert Doyle with the restaurant a major donor to his successful reelection campaign.

This is a scam being perpetrated on all Australian workers. Each one of the enslaved foreigners displaces an Australian worker at award rates. The downwards pressure this places on wages growth is obvious.

While low wage growth is a result of a suite of issues – falling national income, automation, weak unions – you’d have be economically obtuse to not recognise that a flood of cheap foreign supply is not a key driver:

For anyone monitoring the trends daily, it has become obvious that across an entire range of sectors, particularly services, visa rorting has become central to profits.

Late last year, the Australian Population Research Institute (APRI) released an alarming new report entitled “Immigration overflow: why it matters”, which examined the widespread rorting of Australia’s visa system, as well as the crushing impact of Australia’s high permanent immigration program on Sydney and Melbourne.

One of the findings from this report was “the high and increasing numbers of IT professionals being granted 457 visas”, which “constitute by far the largest occupation group within the 457 program”:

ScreenHunter_16433 Dec. 02 07.28

The APRI claimed that most IT professionals being granted 457 visas are Indian nationals who are sponsored by Indian IT service companies. These companies have been successful in winning a major chunk of Australia’s IT consulting work on the basis of these 457 visa holders, partly because they are paying them much lower salaries than the market rate for IT professionals in Australia:

As Table 2 shows, some 76 per cent of the 7,542 457 visas issued in the three IT occupations listed were to Indian nationals. The great majority of these were sponsored by Indian IT service companies as intra-company transferees…

ScreenHunter_16434 Dec. 02 07.34

Once in Australia their staff are being paid at much lower rates than experienced resident IT professionals and in some cases even new local graduates.

Even more disturbing is the relatively high proportion of these Indian IT professionals (28 per cent) whose 457 visas were approved at the extremely low base salary of $53,900 or less. This is despite the fact that only eight per cent of the 457 visas granted to Indians in the two ICT occupations in 2014-15 were aged less than 25.

The median starting salary for local ICT graduates under the age of 25 is around $54,000. Coincidentally, the 457 minimum salary ‘floor’ is set at $53,900…

The report also noted how the biggest sources of skilled permanent migrants – engineers, accountants and IT professionals – are also the areas with the biggest surplus of workers:

ScreenHunter_16436 Dec. 02 07.49

Thus, the overall immigration system is destroying career prospects for local graduates in these (and other) areas.

Adele Ferguson recently penned another troubling piece on the “rampant” exploitation of foreign workers and visa fraud in Australia:

Extortion, blackmail, cash back scams and slavery are happening every day under our noses. They happen in the most unsuspecting places such as suburban restaurants and nail bars. Most suffer in silence.

In some cases unscrupulous employers offer sponsorships to desperate foreign workers in return for payment. In other cases they lure unsuspecting workers into a job with the promise of sponsorship, then they turn on the blackmail dial.

The price of visas can vary from $30,000 to $150,000 depending on the visa, the job on offer and the worker’s nationality. For companies engaging in this illegal practice, the scheme offers big bucks…

If workers complain, their sponsorship is likely to be cancelled, inevitably leading to deportation unless a new sponsor can be lined up. Finding a legitimate sponsor isn’t easy and there are no protections for workers who are exploited.

What this says is that running mass immigration into an economy with surplus capacity is triggering a whole range of unhealthy adjustments across the economy. There are now entire business lines, firms and sectors whose business models rely entirely on the systematic undermining of wages and, worse, running virtual slave labour. We have seen this in pizzas, convenience stores, agriculture, building, mining, accounting, IT, engineering, education, transport, the gig economy and no doubt it is even more widespread.

Also from Domainfax today comes one answer:

But for those who care about a holistic economy, where the needs of workers and the desires of employers are in balance, we may have some good news around the corner.

A spokesperson for the Australian Council of Trade Unions says that in the past six months, the phones have been running hot. The call centre has had a 25 per cent increase in people making inquiries to join and a near 40 per cent increase in new members who join through the ACTU, from 541 to 753 for the same period.

People clearly want to know how to join a union perhaps persuaded by the team of president Ged Kearney and new secretary Sally McManus. (You could blame this on local union organisations but just remember it’s harder to organise when there are fewer members.)

“This shows both a large increase in interest and a large increase in follow through that we attribute to increased campaigning, better join processes and a clear value proposition for people to join,” he says.

The problem is there’s not a lot of evidence that unions give two hoots about the great immigration scam. Sure they pop up now and again with a few squeaks but given the scale of the rort they ought to be marching in the streets.

My guess is the unions don’t care for three reasons.

First, the services economy is the least unionised. Unions are turf warriors par excellence so as long as their own members aren’t being overly rorted then it’s business as usual.

Second, the most heavily unionised sectors of the economy are those that are benefiting most from the great immigration scam. Think increased public sector employment, building infrastructure and dwellings, education boom etc. The people ponzi grows these sectors more than others, from Greg Jericho:

Third, the unions’ direct parliamentary representation, the Labor party, is if anything the strongest champion of the mass immigration scam in the Parliament. So for unions to protest, they’d be in direct conflict with their vertical market monopoly.

The union movement has also disintegrated into sectional interests and forgotten what class war really is.

Comments

  1. mild colonialMEMBER

    You could get involved in your union and work to get them away from the ALP.
    How to get the the WD40 onto to the hands of the rusted-on voters of the two main parties….

    • The cfmeu are just a bunch of thugs that want to keep vandalising our cities with apartment blocks because they get 150k a year doing it.

      The Liberals are just a bunch of prigs that want to keep vandalising our cities with apartment blocks because they and their banker mates make a lot of money out of it.

      So it’s more a case of choosing which ever dog shit is better for you personally. After we’ve ticked the boxes of who we really like, which would be minor parties that don’t get many votes.

    • Wrong. The people behind this blog are anti-neoliberal. It is not their fault that all “mainstream” parties including the Greens have been taken over by Chardonnay and Latte sipping baby boomer neo-liberals.

      Edit: my comment was in response to a spray that was deleted.

    • CFMEU is a fan of big Australia. Union bosses and big construction and infrastructure developers have a surprisingly cozy relationship behind the facade of tension. Their interests align in that population growth fuels construction and demand for infrastructure, ergo construction jobs, CFMEU membership and power on the work sites.

      That is why ALP and unions are pro big Australia.

      • Sounds about right. People support mass immigration because it works for them to have it; they will also spruik secondary benefits, such as “diversity”.

        Now, I like diversity, but that is not my point: my point is that people who like mass immigration because of diversity don’t really like diversity nearly as much as they like what it primarily brings for them: construction, consumer and politically-realted (GDP) benefits, etc.

  2. The 457 drum you’re banging on is relevant, however the people being offered slave wages aren’t here on a 457, they’re not sponsored, they’re on working holiday visas, overstayers on regular holiday visas or enrolled in bullshit business administration courses at dodgy colleges and on student visas. Their number far outweighs the 457 figures and are key in both holding down unskilled & semi-skilled wages as well as keeping rental properties full…

    • IT staff on 457 visas are imported to work for $2000/month. Which is absolutely illegal.

      I do not want to pick fruit. Which Aussie does?

      But stupid Shorten only wants to increase the price of a 457 visa slightly. It should be $100k upfront for each 2-year 457 visa.

      And charge foreigners $40 per day for a train ticket – thus forcing them out of the cities.

      • kiwikarynMEMBER

        Things like picking fruit are what temporary work visas should be for – bring people over, they work for 6 weeks during harvest, then they go home again. NZ uses workers from the Pacific Islands. Around 4000 of them come over for the Marlborough wine harvest, their employers are responsible for accommodating them, their pay is monitored by agencies who check up on them, and when the harvest is over they go home, back to their families.
        As opposed to the Aussie system, where they come and pick fruit for 6 weeks, then move to Sydney and compete with Australians for other jobs.

    • +1 lignje! Anyone with direct experience within immigrant communities, know’s you are bang on the money.

    • in the last couple years nearly all the couriers and truck drivers we deal with are Indians and one guy told us him and his mates are here on a visa studying to be hair dressers

      • billygoatMEMBER

        Yep try applying for a job truck driving HR vehicle. As soon as Raj, Hamal, Raj, Amed, Raj hears non immigrant sounding voice the job is gone despite urgency in their ad posted 30 mins ago OR they’ll get back to you. That’s if you’re able to get through a 4 -6 min call in broken english.

      • And why is it that the foreign workers are dubbed ‘the exploited’?

        They know what they are doing, aren’t they the ones exploiting Australia?

    • The government also abuses 457 visas themselves:
      I used to work at IP Australia – commonly known as the patent office.

      We used to advertise for junior patent examiners, typically someone with a PhD in Science or Engineering, but at pay level APS1, typically around $40,000-$45,000 per annum. Not surprisingly, very few locals would apply, but many foreigners.

      This is the way we wanted it – cheap labour, very skilled, and able to work them 10-12 hours a day. Too many complaints and back to India or China. Typically the day after they got permanent residence they resigned.

      This underpayment means that no one stays long enough to become skilled, and skilled locals cannot work for this price, they could make more flipping burgers.

  3. The fee for each 457 visa has to be $100k upfront for a 2-year visa.

    And another $100k for a 2 year extension. Then go back to the 3rd world.

    Shorten is a moron.

    It is a miracle the Japan is allowed to have a shrinking population!

      • ALP can lose the next election. Don’t bank on non aligned melange of minors and independent. Creative destruction coming our way.

  4. reusachtigeMEMBER

    Meh, no one gives a sh1t coz there’s good stuff on Netflix to watch and cool ninja shows! I like all the cheap labour because it keeps prices stable and boosts profits for our favorite businesses like fast food joints (I prefer the new gourmet fast food selections popping up in food courts like Gomez Sanchez Tacoz and Coke). I also love only having to pay 50 bucks for a massage that always leaves me feeling happy. And IT workers… they’ve got what they deserve for being those annoying know it all nerds at school. So, get off the case of our much loved cheap labour!!

    • sydboy007MEMBER

      @Reus maaate. $50 for a massage. you’re being ripped off. PM me. I know a few cheap cheap places around the country. Forget that hippy happy stuff too. These places are mind BLOWINGLY good. The staff all know their place and just one complaint and it’s 6 months in a leaky boat as they’re sent packing.

      As for the cheap labour, you can’t beat the cheen-nah-men for their hard work ethic for minimal pay. Why just last year I was able to get my old carpet ripped out and laminate installed for literally next to nothing. no nonsense, no fuss. in early morning and work non stop till they finished. they don’t talk no english so no time wasting. they even have the courtesy to bring their own microwave to heat up their smelly ethnic food.

      if the confederates had only known the kind of claytons slavery the world would bring in, they’d have not wasted all that time fighting and more time investing in property and making the $$$$. these days you can get THEM to PAY you for their indentured servitude. Imagine the relations parties that kind of gold would have paid for.

    • billygoatMEMBER

      @Reusa re Netflix. Sure there’s great stuff on Netflix if you’re into watching mtf transgendered act out lesbian love affair – See Gupsy WTF??? Seriously!!

  5. Your own excellent article identifies the fourth reason unions are silent – because scammed workers are joining unions and boosting membership numbers! Why would the unions want to interfere with this rich pipeline of more disaffected new fee paying members?!

  6. +1 lignje! Anyone with direct experience within immigrant communities, know’s you are bang on the money.

  7. The workers involved sound predominantly like they’re hospitality workers, who are meant to be represented by United Voice. There are two obvious problems with United Voice – firstly, only 25% of their members are hospitality workers, leading to their issues being lost amongst other stuff. Second, at around 30k hospitality workers being their members, it sounds like they represent a tiny proportion of hospitality workers. In particular, I’d bet that virtually no part time or casual hospitality workers are union members (when I was a casual hospitality worker I had no idea that the Miscellaneous Workers Union existed, and none of my full-time co-workers admitted to being union members). I’d suggest that this industry sector suffers, and has suffered over a lengthy period of time, from poor union representation compared to construction workers or manufacturing workers, and that’s partly why the migrants are being brought in for this type of work.

  8. >”Why aren’t the unions at war with the great immigration scam?”
    Perhaps it is hard to be anti-immigration without being labeled a “Racist”

    Pauline Hanson has ensured that any mainstream immigration debate is almost impossible.

    • and Bill Shorten who labelled anyone questioning mass immigration a political extremist

    • I think this argument is strong. A lot of the people who go into union leadership are the champagne socialists from student union movements. They don’t give a damn about bogans, they’re in it for the chance to ideologically purify the world.

    • DarkMatterMEMBER

      “Pauline Hanson has ensured that any mainstream immigration debate is almost impossible.”

      That is backwards logic. It is the people obsessed with demonising PH that have caused the problem. Are we all so weak minded that we can’t separate out the real issues and debate them? Effectively what you are saying is that because PH said “swamped by Asians” (factually true BTW, for better or worse) 20 years ago, we should flood our cities and ruin the future to ensure a distance from PH. That is a hell of a way to run a country!

      If we are so stupid that identity politics is more important than rational planning, then maybe we deserve to get flushed away?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Effectively what you are saying is that because PH said “swamped by Asians” (factually true BTW, for better or worse) 20 years ago, we should flood our cities and ruin the future to ensure a distance from PH.

        No it’s not. Holy non-sequitur, Batman !

        From memory (been a while since I worked out the numbers) we’ve been basically as “swamped” by Europeans as we have been by Asians over the last 20 years.

        Hanson poisons the debate by making it primarily about race and religion, rather than economics and common goals.

      • DarkMatterMEMBER

        You say that, but it is hard to believe if you look at Sydney auctions. Ditto suburbs like Chatswood. Anyway, It is not race, but culture we are talking about. With religion we have had this discussion before and the resolution was that religion is bad, and some religions are so bad that we need to put up a big STOP sign at the airports and turn them back. Scientology included.

        Anyway you missed the point again with your Batman thinking. Why aren’t these debates about religion, culture and hot money from China all separate from the logical implications of immigration?

        Poisoned – Is that a logical principle?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        You say that, but it is hard to believe if you look at Sydney auctions. Ditto suburbs like Chatswood.

        Actual data is probably a better indicator.

        Anyway, It is not race, but culture we are talking about.

        Asians aren’t a culture, so you’re talking about race, just Like Pauline was. But we both know that race and culture are used interchangeably, regardless of which “side” is yelling, so the semantic angle remains as hollow as it is predictable.

        With religion we have had this discussion before and the resolution was that religion is bad, and some religions are so bad that we need to put up a big STOP sign at the airports and turn them back. Scientology included.

        That might have been your resolution. My resolution is we treat people based on their actions and not thoughtcrimes, as that’s one of the core principles of our society.

        Anyway you missed the point again with your Batman thinking. Why aren’t these debates about religion, culture and hot money from China all separate from the logical implications of immigration?

        Because of people like Hanson. Because we as a society try not to condemn or judge an individual based on the actions of others who have some trait in common (you might say it’s part of our culture).

      • hareebaMEMBER

        Well said Dark Matter.

        Have you walked around the city in Sydney lately Dr Smithy?

        There are MORE asians than anglo’s. And i don’t fucking like it. Makes me feel uncomfortable and if you want to conflate that with racism … good luck to you. Just more cultural marxist PC bullshit.

        How would you feel personally if the whole of Australia became primarily asian in appearance?

        In my opinion we are not innately wired to like it … that is why many don’t. Personally … i like asian people and the culture they bring here but what is wrong with wanting to retain a dominant caucasian demographic?

      • DarkMatterMEMBER

        Anyway you missed the point again with your Batman thinking. Why aren’t these debates about religion, culture and hot money from China all separate from the logical implications of immigration?

        Because of people like Hanson. Because we as a society try not to condemn or judge an individual based on the actions of others who have some trait in common (you might say it’s part of our culture).

        Once again, after all the retorts you miss the point. Your reply doesn’t make sense. Because of Hanson we can’t think rationally? What? Because we try not to condemn we can’t determine our future? Why not? After all the backwards and forwards, the logic of over-immigration is a separate issue. The fact that everyone uses these other arguments to derail the debate is not a problem with PH, but a problem with our ability to think clearly and separate issues.

        You live in Brisbane, so you have no idea about Sydney. There isn’t really a problem with chinese people individually, but they are buying everything that is not nailed down. Race, culture, CCP, whatever, we are selling the place for short term gain. Your tedious legalistic arguments don’t change that. The CCP is bribing our pollies and buying media influence. You sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting “not happening!” doesn’t help.

        Also, your argument about religion just being a harmless invisible friend has been debunked. If that were true, nobody would care. A religion that takes over a person’s life and makes them do crazy things is quite different. There is no rational reason for a 22yo to blow themselves up. How does it help them in any way? It is a mad thing to do. Why can’t we say no to a religious ideology that promotes that?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Because of Hanson we can’t think rationally? What?

        Because of Hanson we can’t have a rational _debate_.

        Why you can’t think rationally, I have no idea.

        Because we try not to condemn we can’t determine our future? Why not?

        Punish the straw man. PUNISH HIM.

        After all the backwards and forwards, the logic of over-immigration is a separate issue. The fact that everyone uses these other arguments to derail the debate is not a problem with PH, but a problem with our ability to think clearly and separate issues.

        The problem is there are plenty of people – Hanson being one, you, another – who keep conflating them. Just like the supposed people calling you “RACIST” every time you try to talk about immigration (possibly because you keep framing your position as being swamped by azns and blown up by muzzies).

        You sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting “not happening!” doesn’t help.

        Punish the straw man some more !

        Also, your argument about religion just being a harmless invisible friend has been debunked.

        “Debunked” obviously means something completely different in your world.

        If that were true, nobody would care. A religion that takes over a person’s life and makes them do crazy things is quite different.

        LOL. People do crazy things based on their favourite football teams. You might say that sort of tribalism over random and arbtrary abstractions is in our fundamental nature.

        There is no rational reason for a 22yo to blow themselves up. How does it help them in any way? It is a mad thing to do. Why can’t we say no to a religious ideology that promotes that?

        There’s no rational reason for someone to throw themselves in front of a bullet, either, yet a Secret Service agent who did it to save Donald Trump would be decorated a national hero and venerated as a role model.

        What religious ideology are you talking about ? The one that sent Japanese pilots crashing into boats ? The one that sent thousands of ANZACs to pointless deaths fighting meaningless battles in someone else’s war ? The one that has Monks setting themselves on fire in Tibet ?

        You would struggle to find a culture anywhere on the planet that doesn’t honor certain types of self-sacrifice in some fashion. Heck, just look at mothers prepared to sacrifice themselves for their children.

        Again, something you might say is hardwired in, to a degree.

        It is quite trivially demonstrable only a small minority of Muslims want to kill all the infidels, and only a tiny minority of them are doing it through suicide bombing. So trying to paint the other billion-odd Muslims on the planet as being no different is – what’s that word you used – ah, yes, “irrational”.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Makes me feel uncomfortable and if you want to conflate that with racism … good luck to you.

        Errr, yeah. That’s not so much “conflation” as dictionary definition”.

      • DarkMatterMEMBER

        And you still miss the point. The argument about immigration economics is simply numbers. We can have these humorous banterings about the side issues all day and it makes not one bit of difference. Too many people come in and flock to the cities and it’s causing problems. PH did none of this. Talking about PH did none of this. PH did not stop rational people from having a debate about this. You are obsessed with people thinking the wrong thing. You are like the thought police.

        Leith got a front page run on news.com.au just this afternoon. Article written by person with chinese name. Leith says it is a numbers argument. With all the PH mind control bugs floating in the ether, how did Leith manage to think this through and come to a conclusion? Is it possible that others could also resist the PH mind control and look at the graphs?

        You said this! ….
        Because of Hanson we can’t have a rational _debate_.

        If we can’t have a debate, it is because people are too weak minded to resist getting derailed with slogans and mud slinging.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        The argument about immigration economics is simply numbers.

        Indeed.

        But people like Hanson, and you, keep trying to make it about race, and religion, and culture, and sarcastic dishonest misuse of words like “diversity” and “multiculturalism”.

        That is why we cannot have a rational debate. Because people like Hanson polarise it their useful idiot supporters drown out the rational voices like MB [bloggers] and SAP.

      • DarkMatterMEMBER

        Wrong again! Keep up Drsmithy. Lets go back to the start of this thread. The original post was a quite reasonable question about why the unions support immigration. Then, a non member injected this out of nowhere –

        >”Why aren’t the unions at war with the great immigration scam?”
        Perhaps it is hard to be anti-immigration without being labeled a “Racist”

        Pauline Hanson has ensured that any mainstream immigration debate is almost impossible.

        This is quite absurd and a gratuitous snipe at Pauline Hanson. Think about it. If the mainstream are so easily distracted, what chance do they have of conducting a debate? Do we really believe that if PH had never existed our “mainstream’ would be having polite and erudite debates about immigration? It is the silliest thing I have read for a long time.

        So, I couldn’t let that inane comment pass. Check out all of the posts by Leith about this subject. Not one graph has Pauline Hanson as an axis! All the arguments have been fact based and rational. That is why people follow MB. This idea that PH makes rational debate impossible is quite absurd. Next, you wade in with the straw persons and the thought policing and we end up in a bun fight. The derailing of this thread is all down to you and your mate “Gustav the Unsubscribed”.

        You lot are the problem. A harmless and interesting thread gets derailed by an inane PH snipe and then you are off. Tone policing, thought controlling and virtue signalling like a mofo. Shame on you again Drsmithy!!!

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Wrong again!

        Not wrong. What you claim to be “injected out of nowhere” is an observation of commonplace events that is also regularly made by the MB bloggers – that the rational objective voices get drowned out by people going “RACIST” on one side and “NOT RACIST, but we should focus on keeping out the non-white non-Christians” on the other.

        Who gets more press time – ON or SAP ? Hanson or Leith ? Whose opinion are other politicians asked about – ON’s or SAP’s ? Hanson’s or Leith’s ? Which political party do more people know about ? ON or SAP ?

        You lot are the problem. A harmless and interesting thread gets derailed by an inane PH snipe and then you are off. Tone policing, thought controlling and virtue signalling like a mofo. Shame on you again Drsmithy!!!

        My entry point into the discussion was your reflexive ‘defend Hanson’ post where you introduced “Asians” as a discussion point then fabricated and assigned a position of “we should flood our cities and ruin the future to ensure a distance from PH” to the previous poster. I pointed out that a) the previous poster didn’t say that at all and b) people like Hanson who inherently make the discussion about race/religion/culture/etc poison the debate and drown out the objective discussions about numbers and national economic and environmental goals.

        You (and hareeba) then went on to introduce religion into the discussion.

        You. Not me. But I’ll stick my hand up for engaging on the topics you broached.

    • she did not, for all her faults, and yes, there are many, she has done more to mainstream the “immigration debate” than basically anyone else in this country.

  9. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-17/majority-of-foreign-workers-paid-under-national-award-rates/8714080?pfmredir=sm

    I would be interested to see a comparison/ratio of articles, like the one above to the Number of articles published by the commercial media demonizing the CFMEU and Unions in general.

    When the Reserve bank governor is stating that workers have to “Man up” and “Demand” pay rises,… for the sake of the economy!,…I’m wondering if he has any clue at all, about the reality on the “Coal face” within the industries most affected by this instutionalised contravention of Australian law.

    A Right wing political Party may have less “Brown people” being exploited within our boarders, but only a pro Union, Economic left of centre Party can eridicate the idelogical mentality that underpins this kind of exploitation.
    The Labor party should be the political party to turn all this around,…But,….thanks to Keating and his lingering legacy, Labor have been a big part of this growing and developing problem.

    BUT they still have a democratic structure within the party and a rank and file revolt, could have the party FORCED back, to honouring it’s traditional roll of representing Working people and the Poor,…instead of the Careerist ambitions of its Proffessional class of apparatchiks.

    Single issue parties like SAP are all very good, well and noble,…and are certainly a way of forcing a bit of change against an injust and unpopular 2 party consensus,…but the fact remains Australians, like most in the AngloSphere, Vote tribally, with roughly, just under half voting Tory/Conservative and the other, just under half, Voting “Progressive/Left”.
    The Corporate media support this “pretend” and fake left/right dichotomy,… as long as it remains focussed on Non economic issues,… and the mainstream parties acquiesce to this Plutocratic demand,…thus we have the Neoliberal consensus, where “there is no alternative”.

    Well,… there is an alternative, and it requires people to take something back that used to belong to them,…The Labor Party.

    http://www.alp.org.au/joinlabor

    The Corbynites have been slowly clawing back the UKs Labor party from the Tory light, Blairites, but they to have some way to go,…we’ve got an even bigger fight here in OZ.

    IMHO, there is no other non violent, possibilitity for real change, without a retaking of the instution, that was established over 100 years ago, to limit and redistribute the POWER of the “Owners” of this world.

    https://youtu.be/Grn2EZxcUeA

    Continued Neoliberalism today = Neo-fedualsim for our future.

    • sydboy007MEMBER

      @EP – Corbyn is an out right marxist socialist. The man has no sense of reality. His gladstonbury speech where he’s in a walled community and telling everyone to read what’s on the WALL – build bridges not walls – is just dodge balls L for Love kind of reasoning.

      Corbyn doesn’t understand the nuclear triad, nor could he bring himself to say what he’d do if the UK suffered a nuclear first strike from another nation.

      The thugs he refuses to expel from party is another thing i can’t abide by. I’d not be surprised if he was part of the black block that rampaged through the G20.

      Corbyn is also an open borders supporter, and since the Bank of England has shown a 10% increase in immigration causes the wages of the lowest paid to fall by 2 to 3% (iirc) how me he is a middle class champagne socialist and a not a true Labor leader. I’m surprised he wasn’t part of the all white BLM protest that closed down LCY airport last year because climate change is racist.

      I’d love to see a new party rise up that is socially progressive (though not as much as the Labour left are) while being more to the fiscally conservative (but not at Liberal loon pond levels) with a strong dose of libertarian beliefs to keep the Govt as small as possible and out of my personal life. A platform based on personal responsibility and ethos of equality of opportunity that acknowledges this will lead to unequal outcomes but has policies to tame the more ruthless side of capitalism.

      i thoroughly recommend this talk by jonathan haidt – https://youtu.be/aAYkA8AkR84

      https://youtu.be/9B-RkNRGH9s – Capitalism is Exploitation (Story 1)

      https://youtu.be/kOomUpEdLE4 – Capitalism is Liberation (Story 2)

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        “A platform based on personal responsibility and ethos of equality of opportunity that acknowledges this will lead to unequal outcomes but has policies to tame the more ruthless side of capitalism.”

        So you advocate for a hybrid, of a little bit of Capitalism and a little bit of Socialsim,…tempered and guided by informed Democracy.
        Me too!,.. though a little bit more number 2 for me and a little more number 1 for you,…Cool.

        But where I think your own, personal path of indoctrination has lead you astray,…is in your obvious fear of “Big Government”.
        A totalitarian State is to be avoided at all costs, but why the dread of a Democraticly lead “Big Government”,…that’s a lot more accountable, with a lot less to fear, than a totalitarian, Globalised Coporate Plutocracy!
        The Small Government, libertarian shtick is getting old and thoroughly discredited.

        Real Democracy has to be fought for, otherwise it’s going to be a return to the, winner take all days of Knights, Kings Queens and Emperor’s.

        Techno-Feudalsim for all,….well for the 99% anyway.

        https://youtu.be/GBdk5n68gdM

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Corbyn is a bog-standard social democrat.

        The only reason he’s controversial is because the Overton Window in the Anglosphere has moved so comprehensively to the political Right.

        Drop him into most European countries (or pre-1980s Australia) and he’d be boringly mainstream.

        What you claim to want is mostly what Corbyn would offer.

      • sydboy007MEMBER

        @EP – up till a couple of years ago I’d have been more inline with you. These days I don’t see any enforceable ways to ensure corruption is minimised within Govt. Rent seeking is rampant in every democracy. Heck our ATO couldn’t even keep the scamming under control. The Australian game of mates is imbedded into the very structures of our society.

        Representative democracy in Australia is not representative of the majority of voters these days. TPP talks kept secret, the demos are deemed unworthy to read the text and have a direct say on whether we should sign. Look at the corrupt PPPs every state has colluded in. Secret deals with infrastructure players, that seem to be purely about pretending we can have something for free.

        I’m increasingly tired of the belief the Govt should “fix it”. Maybe people just need to clean their own bedroom for a change.

        I really want to withdraw my consent to be government as i despise the morons we currently have, but there’s no better alternative that i can see.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Representative democracy in Australia is not representative of the majority of voters these days.

        Rubbish. 2/3 of the electorate cast a PRIMARY vote for Labor or the Coalition.

      • sydboy007MEMBER

        @DrSmithy – It’s just a shame Corbyn was practically promising a unicorn for all at the last election. Sadly the Tories went full loon pond. I doubt even the mad monk would have thought to go to the electorate trying to bring back fox hunting….

        As for 2/3 of Voters supporting the Laberals, how many of them feel like they actually get listened to? How many want less immigration but are ignored by the parties? How many are suspect of FTAs and get no say in what is forced upon us? Both parties seem happy to sell us out.

        So no, I don’t think the will of the people is being particularly respected by politicians.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        As for 2/3 of Voters supporting the Laberals, how many of them feel like they actually get listened to? How many want less immigration but are ignored by the parties? How many are suspect of FTAs and get no say in what is forced upon us? Both parties seem happy to sell us out.

        Yet 2/3 of the people keep voting for them.

        Not in an “oh well, I have to put them somewhere on the ballot” way, either, in an “I want Malcolm Turnbull or Bill Shorten to be PM” way. Ie: primary votes.

        When the primary vote for the two major parties is in a minority and they’re barely stringing together a majority thanks to preferences, then you can start making an argument that the people are genuinely and fundamentally unhappy with the two major parties. When the people start putting minor party MPs into the lower house in serious enough numbers to rid us of the phrase “hung parliament”, you can start making an argument they’re looking for genuine change.

        But right now the numbers don’t lie. The people are not annoyed enough to even try and exercise the easiest and most obvious avenue for change.

  10. SchillersMEMBER

    Why aren’t the unions at war with the great immigration scam?

    Because many union executives have investment property portfolios. The last thing they want to see is pressure taken off house prices by reducing rates of immigration. For a number of them it’s pure self interest.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Though I agree with you, that self interest is a major driver of nearly all individuals who compete for leadership rolls,…I think the main reason we don’t hear more from Unions, on mass immigration, has more to do with their leaders taking a path of least resistance.

      Just like the Coporate media can’t wait to publish stories about Union bully boy antics,… they would instantly pounce on any Union official calling for dramatic cut to immigration,… turning it into a Gotcha moment of, all Unionists are all Racists!,…as well as,…all thuggish bully boys!!!
      With decades of dwindling membership, putting them into a funding crisis that threatens their very existance, they have to pick their battles and not alienate existing and future members,..by being labelled Xenophobic by a Coporate Propaganda Machine.

      Remember too, that these guys are employed (Union officials) by a membership, to represent the members interests,…for sure, all to often, these officials come up lacking. But let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water.

      The solution in my humble opinion, is not to disband Unions,… but rather have an increased rank and file membership, more directly participate in Union decision-making and Governance,…that’s my same proscription for the Labor Party.

      More Democracy not less.

      https://youtu.be/ljaXy1t0I44

    • fitzroyMEMBER

      Here in Melbourne I think that there is a vested interest in overseas financed contracts for public works (hence the Vic govt is the only one in Australia against disclosure of donations) and there is a vested interest in the pipeline of apartment construction work going to the CFMEU which runs the Victorian State government. Ethnic groups are behind many of the branch stacks which ensures lucrative positions for those who control them.

      • fitzroyMEMBER

        EP one of my best friends at work’s husband stood for preselection for Gellibrand, so I got an insiders insight in what happens in a stack contest. I did try to help as best I could, but the stack won, beating other stacks. I have other friends who are on the other side of the force, and I try to have some influence with them as well. My friend who was the longtime Labor man (subsidising the party with his own family money and stalwart of the local branch) was wiped by the imported stack.

  11. On a different note.
    A couple of weekends ago, I walked the entire length of Chapel St (Melbourne) from Dandenong Rd to Toorak Rd.
    There were around a dozen or more shops that had closed down. Sitting empty/vacant with For Lease signs.
    I have no doubt that part of the issue here is greedy landlords demanding astronomical rents.

    • fitzroyMEMBER

      Less retail spend. You’re noticing what I am noticing in strip shopping centres. I think the discretionary spend is drying up.

  12. Everyone who has political clout is “OK” with mass immigration because:

    1) They will be “straw-man” howled at as being a racist, if they speak against mass immigration;
    2) It keep housing and GDP elevated, which keeps the status quo happy(er).

    Explained.

    😉

  13. DominicMEMBER

    Switzerland ‘does’ democracy …. Australia does not.

    Can you imagine either the ALP or LNP announcing a referendum on the scale of the immigration program?

    Not in a month of Sundays …