Weekend Reading 15-16 July 2017

Global Macro / Markets / Investing:







Unconventional Economist
Latest posts by Unconventional Economist (see all)


  1. Alan Davies realises that anti-immigration sentiment is soaring:


    “the thing that really struck me was the comments on the article made by nominally left-leaning readers of The Age”

    “Have limited understanding of the pro-immigration economic arguments”

    What benefits of immigration? 300 applicants per job?

    Commenter, named Teddy, under the article wrote something from the Jessica Irvine school of econonsenseomics!

    “Detroit and other US cities suffering population decline?”

    Ha ha ha! Detroit declined due to a lack of factories, not due to a lack of people. What a nutter.

    • The belief in growth as a panacea is very close to a religious mania. I am starting to think that it is actually driven by a desire for change, in the vague hope that a changed future will be better and more interesting than what we have now. This method of “planning” for the future is effectively an admission that rational planning for the future is completely impossible.

      It is a sort of wishy washy fatalism peddled by our corrupt and incompetent “leaders”. For them, there is no downside. They keep the snout in the trough, and by crush loading the cities they guarantee change. The difficult problems will land in the lap of someone else in the future. All good, and with the public mind dialled to numbskull, (almost) no one will poke holes in the silly arguments for the benefits of 10m+ cities and widespread job destruction.

      Leith’s big problem is that he makes sense – that does not sit well with the Australian Public. They crave fluffy pink lies.

      • A lot of it is driven by public school style mindless hatred and spite, the ‘suck shit’ culture. The smugness of moron bogans that have gotten lots out of property, who would otherwise be lower middle class, is almost tangible. Add to that they get to pretend they’re all sophisticated and cosmopolitan because the left says you’re that if you like mass immigration. Complete scum.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        “who would otherwise be lower middle class”

        The way people dissociate themselves from the fact, that they are indeed WORKING CLASS and not members of some minority upper and middle class, is an astounding Propaganda and Indoctrination Phenomenon.

        Owen can’t even bring himself to using the term “working class”, instead calling bogans pretending to be sophisticated and cosmopolitan “lower middle class”, using that term as some kind of slur,…lol.

        Whether your sitting on a “Shit load” of equity or not,… in spite of your Academic qualifications,…If you can’t afford to take off half a year from work, without going financially backwards and would have trouble paying all the bills during that time,…then, get ready for it,…Your Working Class too Pal!
        Its not something you hear many people owning with pride,… most don’t even admit it to them selves,…
        I ask the Comentariate,…why do you think that is?

      • Fair point. I would consider working class to be those with a household income of say 60-70k or less.

      • If you aren’t independently wealthy you are someone’s bitch and therefore a pleb. It’s as simple as that.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        C’mon Ermo, we can’t have people thinking they’re not in charge of their own destiny. That they’re reliant on the world around them. Noooo, they’re all sticking it to the man, hoping that the man keeps everyone else under control.

        Nah Owen, you can’t put numbers on it. Even our Tony couldn’t afford his mortgage when Howard sent the Liberals into a pool of slime. He’s as working class as the guy working at the foundry.

        Do we still have foundries?

      • That’s another attitude that is so nauseating, sticking it to the man, sure, some of them can retire as long as they live cheaply, but they’ve stuck it to their own countrymen and children, it’s theft and tyranny dressed up as some sort of working class rebellion. Hate their guts.

        I had to look up what a foundry was so my guess is no.

      • mild colonial

        I can see people internally exploding with laughter when I, with my rather hip accent, talk about the working class. but women need to be braver about identifying as working class. Suspect we’re pretty good about joining unions but could still do better.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        The foundry where I grew up was a massive part of the community. That’s where the non–academic kids went to do their apprenticeships. You’d see the workers pour out at whistle time, head for the pubs or shops (five minutes walk to the city centre) or buses home. There were local footy and cricket teams, strong teams, based around foundry employment. Everyone had a connection to it somehow.

        Back when businesses used to be part of the community and be proud of it.

      • Strawman but from what I hear there aren’t too many, in fact no body, buys the “immigration is good” mantra, it belongs purely to the politicians, economists and think-tanks. The discontent is growing and it’s not good.

    • Having been to Japan, a strong unified culture where infrastructure works well due to not having to chase rapid population growth, I gotta wonder what the hell is going on here. Any scerrick of higher per capita growth (debatable) plainly outweighed by the costs in terms of housing affordability, congestion, sustainability, social cohesion and so forth.

    • It was applicable to ones own religious camp, but cool to charge others, as well, as slavery and heaps of other extremely barbaric notions. This where context is not applied accurately in historical events, say J’mans opines were specific to his religious camp, not until after his death did Peter and Paul have the argument about circumcised of uncircumcised.

      Even without usury, more like social taboo where its back to loan sharks in dark allys people in ones own socio-religoius group could be slaves and then even with Jubilees have the Free Will ™ to publicly put an awl in ones ear. Proclaiming not only oneself [male] in servitude, but by this action ones wife and kids [negative free will].

      One really does not need to go back into antiquity to square the events post neoliberalism dominance e.g. the unleashing of self regulation, revolving door between public and private spheres, unrestricted capital flows [shadow sector], uncompetitive monopolies [economic efficiency], money as a vote, fraud and corruption are inevitable and natural, weaponizing finance to break nations that don’t submit, de-legitimatizing government unless it serves the market, billionaires multiplying like rabbits [rats]….. etc~~~~

      But… yeah… the usury… sigh…. some might want to evaluate arguments on the bargaining or leverage ratio between citizens [consumers] vs. huge financial entities when it comes to automatismic points of view….

      disheveled… might be better to consider how reality [shared and individual] is shaped and too what ends…. all the rest is just a reflection of – that – process…

      • Jesus fulfilled the OT law of Moses perfectly, which allowed the liberty away from the law (as fulfilled in Christ) for a life of Christian grace that Paul argued for with respect to Peter and the circumcision Q, whereby Peter was wrong and certainly not a pope (for infallibility) nor the first pope. Shakespeare’s ‘The Merchant of Venice’ is an exploration of these issues. Legalism’s pound of flesh vs license whoever holds the wedding ring to bed; both devoid of truth and grace.
        ‘Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.’ Galatians chpt 3:24-5

        The article discusses some historical perspectives of debt & usury in an age of what is supposed to be one of seeking to live out Christian grace.
        Trying to argue that without usury we’d all be alot poorer and how would we ever buy a house without debt to do so – ironic…

      • Counterfiat…

        Huh… noone knows wtf J’man did, its all hearsay which was not written down till yonks after events and then endlessly reinterpreted into modernity. In actual historical context he was a minor prophet of this time who could not get ears in more cosmopolitan settings, so he when off into the regional areas to do a grass roots moment.

        As far as Peter and Paul go J’man is quoted saying stuff to a Canaanite woman or that his opinions were only directed at his people. All the other stuff was long after he was dead and could not be asked about his opinions on it, tho some do speculate.

        That does not even get into the evolution of said religion from older regional [Sumerian – Egyptian] beliefs.


        Disheveled…. good grief even theologians not committed to the loon pond acknowledge and discuss this stuff….. wheeeeeeeee….

      • You have no argument from me that Catholism developed with all sort of extra Biblical inventions… ‘religion from older regional [Sumerian – Egyptian] beliefs’. Of which the article interestingly points out the invention of purgatory to embrace usurers, who become expedient to win wars.

        With Bible believing Christianity it is no surprise that these beliefs differ from your views and so-called ‘experts’ of this ilk.

        The article at hand is pushing towards considering a ‘morality’ of money and its historical usages, for the benefit of society.
        What would a monetary system (or even an economic system) look like designed from a ‘do unto others’ perspective?

      • Errrrrrrrrr…. by you own account then J’man was a “expert” in everything, not that it can be falsified or established because faith…..

        Disheveled… too many logical fallacies to even bother with…

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        “weaponizing finance to break nations that don’t submit, de-legitimatizing government unless it serves the market, ”

        I try to point out the way our Democracy and our ability to Govern ourselves, are subverted by this reality to a lot of people,…most just think I’m a tin foil hat nutter, a conspiracy theorist, but it’s just all so obvious, one doesn’t have to look real hard to see it.

    • Some interesting historical perspectives/theories in the article, thanks for posting.

      Christianity has always existed since the days of Jesus, outside of the corrupt Catholic entity – Those who were baptised not as infants into a state church, but baptised when of an intellectually capable age to decide for themselves, collectively known as ana-baptists. Murdered throughout the ages.

      Exploring the possibility of alternatives to the present monetary system the article refuses to go, as it suggests what we have today is necessary for prosperity to have occured, which is wrong. Many of us here would contend that the monetary system and usury as it exists today is parasitical to prosperity.

      • aeon is an interesting site. It’s always worth popping across there when you’re short something to read. They also put up a lot of interesting short films.

    • footsore,

      One thing we should all be able to agree on whether or not we agree that all usury is a problem is that the charging of interest in at least some circumstances warrants close and careful regulation.

      One area that should be beyond argument is that there is absolutely no reason for the creation of public money to involve the charging of interest.

      Governments doing the most basic and fundamental obligations of government are more than capable of producing all the public money an economy might require and that does not involve the imposition of interest at all.

      Government can spend what it needs to spend and then taxes back that which is necessary to avoid inflation from too much money circulating. Afterall this is a much simpler task than the RBA’s hopeless efforts to manage inflation by fiddling with the target rate and hoping that the result is credit creation by the private banks that is actually productive and not just an exercise in fluffing the prices of assets owned by the mostly well off.

      If private individuals wish to then lend quantities of public money created as above and charge interest that is unlikely to present a major problem as the government can always take into account changes in the tendency to save public money when making decisions on future government expenditure and taxation. If people want to save more in their mattresses and effectively remove it from circulation the government will be free to run a larger deficit. Likewise if those mattresses start give up their savings the government can take that into account as well. Having said this some regulation of the private contracts between individuals trading in public money (and charging interest thereon) may still be a good idea.

      The one thing we simply do not need is to continue the farce whereby the government “borrows” from the banks or other individuals by selling bonds and pays interest on the borrowing. If for no other reason that the Reserve Bank will often then ‘buy’ some of those bonds from banks in order to ensure that the target rate is not distorted by the government’s ‘borrowing’. The next effect is that while a deficit certainly results in the creation of money it adds interest charges to the process that are completely unnecessary. Note: There may be some benefit in conducting bond sale and purchases on a limited scale if the government wishes to inject or remove public money from the economy at short notice but that is very different to essentially requiring ALL government deficit spending to be financed with bond sales.

      If we want to make some progress towards a more equitable and fair economic model a very good first step is ending the farce that is requiring a government to ‘borrow’ – often from offshore parties – to finance a deficit.

      Government deficit financing by bond sales does nothing more than bake usury into the monetary model from the foundations up.

      And yes you can expert the FIRE sector and its many varied minions, apologists and trolls to unleash hordes of flying monkeys the moment anyone suggests such a simple and obvious reform.

      Oh and yes this does mean that the privilege enjoyed by the banks with regard to the status of the credit they extend would cease. No harm in that – there is no good argument why one particular class of private credit by one class of private organisation or individuals should be given the protection of the state.

      Let the bankers go free to create their own credit and try and find a market for it. At least they will no longer have the regulation of their credit creation privilege as something to whine about.

      • Is it possible that the idea of interest and usury are becoming obsolete? These ideas come from a time when money or wealth mostly came from physical objects like gold, produce, land and buildings. We seem to be moving away from those principles to a transactional form of money where payments flow as a sort of exchange for service. Most people with a mortgage on their house can’t really own the house as they might have done in the past, so even though the bank calls it “interest”, their monthly payments are similar to a service fee that lets them live in the house until the next person moves in. Lots of payments are moving that way. Electricity bills are now a service fee with a added component for electricity used. Mobile phone calls – plans and service fees. it seems that our financial system is moving towards a future where we have a complex network of micro services that binds the system together and keeps the wheels moving by threat of exile for anyone that doesn’t participate. I think that the traditional notion of “ownership” is being phased out. Without ownership, can there be usury?

        My theory on this is partially based on the observation that since about 1980 our financial system has had access to increasing amounts of cheap compute cycles. Presently, we have something like 10^20 compute cycles per hour available for financial transactions! This makes it possible to build a vast network of micro transactions that track every purchase down to a cup of coffee pay-waved into existence. The micro tracking of all these tiny purchases were previously accounted for by the exchange of immutable chunks of metal. There is a forensic trail leading back to the old principles of interest and usury.

        My idea is that money is not a scalar quantity as widely imagined, but a complex variable consisting of a real value (like gold) and an orthogonal entropic value which is the transactional exchange of debt-credit particles. Since a debt and credit sum to zero, this imaginary axis of money satisfies the requirement of orthogonal dimensions. Since the 1980’s, our financial system has been rotating the money vector away from the real value axis to the imaginary entropic flow axis. As far as i can see, the transactional flow financial model (which seems to be what we are moving to) does not require interest. It is a network of rules enforcing transactions, and excludes the ideas of ownership and value.

      • Darkmatter,

        “..Is it possible that the idea of interest and usury are becoming obsolete? ..”

        I don’t think that can be said about the current state of affairs but in the event that Public Money is nationalised and not tied to any commodity it is quite possible that the notion of usury will recede considerably because the government would be able to ensure that all times there is no artificial shortage – if people start hoarding and that starts driving deflation (as the value of available money rises) the government would just adjust the fiscal stance to increase the supply. Traditionally usury was driven by creating artificial shortage.

        Without an artificial shortage the interest charged is likely to be low – the only limiting factor to the supply of money will be inflation and deflation.

        Note that at the moment interest rates are only low because the money creation process has been commandered by private banking and their creation model involves pumping it into the value of assets used for loan security.

        In the even that fiscal policy becomes the main focus of public money creation it is likely to be much more equitable and much less prone to landing in a few pockets (top 20%). In that circumstance I would anticipate that interest rates consistent with low inflation / deflation would be a bit higher than they are now but probably not much.

        Oh and as a few readers are likely to be getting excited about Quantity Theory of Money and preparing their missiles for launching this has nothing to do with the quantity of money. The determining factor for policy will remain inflation / deflation and the fiscal stance will adjust to achieve stability. The actual ‘quantity’ of money will not be of interest as the correlation between the quantity of money and inflation is not great. Far too many variables involved.


    Harcourts has 14% more homes for sale than it did this time last year but sales are down 19%. Situation even worse in Auckland. | interest.co.nz


    The property market is cooling across most of the country, according to New Zealand’s largest real estate agency.

    “The reality is, the market has cooled and if you reject a good offer today you may not get the same opportunity again,” Harcourts chief executive Chris Kennedy said in the company’s market report for June.

    Nationally, sales are down by 20% and there are almost 15% more residential properties available to buy across the country than there were last year, the report said. … read more via hyperlink above …

    Winter’s icy grip takes hold of housing market as prices and volumes fall | interest.co.nz


    Average asking prices on Trade Me Property dropped for the second month in a row in month of June … Interest Co NZ



      New Zealand Prime Minister Bill English vainly attempting to defend his governments near 9 years of housing incompetence …

      VIDEO: Bill English on affordable housing in Auckland | Radio New Zealand News


      Mr English told Morning Report the Auckland Housing Accord – under which the fast-track housing areas were set up – highlighted the challenges of trying to make private developers build affordable homes, and falling prices were not helping. … view and read more via hyperlink above …

      … In contrast … the New Zealand Labour Party …

      Housing – New Zealand Labour Party


      … extract …

      Remove barriers that are stopping Auckland growing up and out

      Labour will remove the Auckland urban growth boundary and free up density controls. This will give Auckland more options to grow, as well as stopping landbankers profiteering and holding up development. New developments, both in Auckland and the rest of New Zealand, will be funded through innovative infrastructure bonds.

      … Soon after the enactment of the Resource Management Amendment Act back in March, Bernard Hickey of NEWSROOM reported …


      7. Just in case you missed it…

      One curious coda to the RMA debate that concluded last week was that the Opposition parties plus ACT and United Future all voted again during the third reading debate for amendments that would have abolished Rural Urban Growth Boundaries and allowed the financing of infrastructure bonds paid for with targeted rates.

      The amendments were defeated by National and the Maori Party.

      The irony of a Government that has railed against restrictions on land development by councils voting against removing those restrictions should be noted. And also that the proposal for infrastructure bonds was backed by the right-leaning New Zealand Initiative and voted for by the Greens and Labour. Strange times indeed.


        New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters recently reminded us housing was a ‘crisis’ back in 07/08 … according to John Key who was hungry for power then.

        Auckland was about 6.4 times annual household incomes (median multiple … Demographia Survey) then … it is now a stratospheric 10.0 times !!! …

        If it was a crisis then … what is it now ??? …

        Billion Dollar Wish List Won’t Fool Anyone … Winston Peters … New Zealand First


        Rt Hon Winston Peters
        New Zealand First Leader
        Member of Parliament for Northland
        11 JULY 2017

        Billion Dollar Wish List Won’t Fool Anyone

        A billion dollar housing bribe after nine years of sitting on their hands won’t fool New Zealanders, says New Zealand First Leader and Member of Parliament for Northland Rt Hon Winston Peters.

        “There just aren’t enough houses and there’s no way the National government can build them in a hurry by making a pie in the sky announcement.

        “In fact it is sad for this country that the government has the audacity to announce a one billion fund for housing infrastructure only 75 days out from the election – even the town idiot would recognise it as desperation.

        “Let’s remember that in 2007 the former Prime Minister told New Zealanders, prior to the election, there was a housing crisis, and he had a plan.

        “From 2008 onwards, for nine long years, his government did nothing.

        “Now when it’s on shaky election ground, it rolls out a billion dollar package.

        “How can they look New Zealand voters in the eye?”


        John Key on Housing Reform 2007 – YouTube



      • NZ Labour’s confidential polling leaked: Labour vote collapsing with NZ Fist strongly on ascendancy … Newshub


        Newshub has been leaked poll results from the company that does Labour’s internal polling which show it is in big trouble, two-and-a-half months out from the election.

        The results show Labour is on 26 percent support – crashing from 34 percent in May.

        And New Zealand First, for the first time in three years of polling, is no longer the lowest rating party. … VIEW & READ more via hyperlink above …

        … via …


      • I really appreciate the size and level of detail that Matt puts into his posts. He doesn’t post as frequently as other bloggers do, but when he does it seems to sum up where we are, how we got here and add a sketch of the problems ahead.
        If MB is silent and protein bars RR is a nice meal out.

    • RR missing the point on China debt. Money has been fleeing out of China into housing because of their debt issues and the expectancy of currency depreciation. Jim Rickards estimated it to be US$700 Billion in 2016. Until that tap is switched off..

    • Great read which goes a tiny way to balancing the endless rah rah of the MSM cheering on the bubble

  3. RobertoMEMBER

    Admiral Chris Barrie (former Chief of the Defence Force) on Stan Grant’s The Link – ABC iview:
    “we are past the point of needing to prepare for the high likelihood of a 2nd invasion (by means of war) of Australia in my grand-children’s lifetimes”.
    “By 2050 we will be 46 million people in a region of 7Bn, they will be coming here.”
    Seems a decent pro big immigration argument to me. More total GDP will enable the development, purchase and use of more and better weapons. Of course this is completely politically unappealing as people always prefer to live in fairy land/ the big rock candy mountain (a song) etc.
    So I will just add it to my list of probable disasters rolling our way which we can and will do nothing about. It’s all death anyway I suppose and these disasters are on a scale beyond most individuals (who in a decadent and selfish society can really only change their own diet, exercise etc…and calmly observe and weigh these goings on…and try to meditate more).

    • A large poor, bitterly divided country will never able defend itself as a smaller population of a rich, highly trained and well equipped army, for the same reason conscripts are canon fodder for the SAS etc. His comments are contrary to history where small, well trained and motivated forces have defeated much larger forces. and a bitterly divided country with great differences in wealth will not unite in the same way as a wealthy, much less divided and egalitarian one. And the problem of defence is a complex one, of which the size of forces is just one element. There are factors such as, I said, how united and wealthy a country was, the quality of its military, how self sufficient a target country is with food, resources and industrial output, and geography and logistics, and of course the quality of its political system, and existing and potential allies. WW2 the Japanese military discussed invading Australia, tiny of population of just 7 million. They concluded that it would absorb far too much of their resources to invade and hold, despite the small population, huge area they’d need to defend and the extraordinarily long supply lines that they’d need to maintain and would themselves be vulnerable to attack. So they opted to try to cut out Australia off from the outside as best they could. What was Australia’s worst defect in WW2 was lack of preparation beforehand and over reliance on imported equipment. That was rapidly addressed in the immediate run up and during the war. I think Barrie should be much more concerned with the hollowing out of Australia’s industrial base and over reliance on foreign made military equipment than on total population.

      • Oh dear, too early. Sorry, should have proof read what a wrote, but its meaning is clear enough.

      • Johannes Kepler

        More importantly wars will absolutely no be fought with people anyway – not even ground troops.

        It will all be robotic by then.

      • Spot on JK, which is why those subs our bozo PM signed us up to will be nothing more than hugely expensive steel coffins for their crews, vulnerable to swarms of cheap, small robot subs, by the time they’re deployed.

      • “…for the same reason conscripts are canon fodder for the SAS etc…”

        LOL, guess too much Bear Grylis can do that.

        To train small group of diversants to attack otherwise unsuspecting army personel does not cost a fortune to train but more important special armed forces cannot win a war (may make a battle winnable).
        Tech could do more and finance can do even more.
        But what a financed NGO, coloured “uprising”, all-kaida, Aye-SIS and Soros can do, 1000 SAS and high tech cannot.

    • RobertoMEMBER

      Just to add, Barrie didn’t draw those conclusions on immigration, they were mine. He only said it was well past time we start preparing for this high probability event.

      • Well his argument was pretty bloody historically ignorant. , GDP alone is a shite measure of defence capability, India’s states collectively had a vastly larger GDP than the UK in the 18th century, yet was unable to resist the forces of the East India Company. The vast, powerful and wealthy Persian Empire was never able to fully subjugate the tiny Greek city states The Chinese coped a hiding when they intervened Vietnam in 1979. Furthermore, Australia fast is losing its industrial capacities because of the current population Ponzi machine, and this de-industrialisation is an inherent feature of such Ponzi-growth, while taking us towards an Argentinian socio-political-economic future. This hardly bodes well for our future defence capacities.

      • RobertoMEMBER

        He didnt mention immigration. He didnt mention GDP. My additions.
        I agree we need to remain cohesive and the rest of it etc. That was a given. But if you cant manage this while running the current immigration levels then we are done for anyway.

      • We’re not done for anymore than Argentina is done for. History is not inevitable until after the fact. But the immigration Ponzi-Debt machine we’re running is actually making us weaker and if maintained for decades is going to leave Australia a fractured society and a very second rate economy.

      • Johannes Kepler

        Its radically absurd.

        China hasn’t invaded anyone and does not intend to.

        The greatest threat to Australia via migration is absolutely not war or invasion – just not going to happen – is migration through environmental pressures.

        The beat up and propaganda regarding China is so absurd it is literally the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen.

        China was our ALLY in the second world war – they have invaded no one, but in contrast have been repeatedly attacked by us.

        Japan and Germany were the aggressors – so how about we get things straight on this front.

      • Keppler. Read more about the China ally business because its complex and interesting. I think you are not wrong but also not right

      • What is the region that will house 7 billion people in 2050?
        One that has many nation states with conflicting interests and many problems to be solved. One that offers us many potential allies.
        A region is not a state.
        A socially and therefore poltically fractured, second rate Big(ger) Australia will be much more vulnerable to foreign meddling in its affairs or outright attack than a smaller, more egalitarian first rate Australia. The current population-debt Ponzi machine guarantees us the first result if we continue with it. That is what this blog is banging on about.

      • Of all the stupid justifications for Australia’s recklessly excessive population growth, invasion has to be the most stupid.

      • “Of all the stupid justifications for Australia’s recklessly excessive population growth, invasion has to be the most stupid.”

    • We were 7 million people in a region of 1 billion, they didn’t invade
      We are 24 million people in a region of 4 billion, they are not invading
      “By 2050 we will be 46 million people in a region of 7Bn, they will be coming here.”
      In an era of the declining importance of ground troops, who is living in a fantasy land?

      • Just because they haven’t invaded to date with the same population ratios doesn’t mean they wont.
        In 2050 there may be climate induced heat waves and droughts which interact with exhausted aquifers in China to cause famine.
        They may have left behind communism by that stage and be run by fascists.
        These possibilities and many others and the implications of them (loss of sovereignty) are not fantasy, they are risk assessments.

      • If China is struggling with natural disasters, where the hell are they going to get the resources and will to launch a massive invasion and occupation of the whole of South East Asia on their way to conquering Australia for its food and resources? And do you think the rest of the world will just ignore what is happening, let alone South East Asia and India?

      • @Roberto & St Jaques
        If China is being ravaged by Climate Change in 2050 , and have food problems, what do think of Ausralias prospects?
        We may be the Climate refugees, who will take us in ?

      • … it only takes a couple of years, or less to lose your food security. They could easily still be extremely wealthy and capable of invasion.
        Meanwhile we are 30 million instead of 60mn or whatever with attendantly lower total GDP, perhaps at a level critically below that needed to defend ourselves.

      • And let’s say took us out by knocking out our main cities and critical infrastructure through a brilliantly orchestrated surprise attack with special forces in cargo ships, submarines and long range aircraft. Do you think the US, Japan, other Asian countries would sit idly by? Bear in mind that now they have to occupy and defend the continent and their long and vulnerable supply lines back to China.

      • Bolstrood, impossible to predict what could happen in that scenario, but China won’t be invading anyone if it’s falling apart and our situation would be far harder to deal with if we have a population close to our food supply limits.

      • To everyone above on this thread. If the people of China needed to move anywhere due to climate change pressures there is a very good chance they would probably just pop over the border into Siberia. Dongbei has got some of the best agricultural land in China, and in fact in the last 150 years there was a massive migration from Shandong due to starvation/poverty into Dongbei, so they know how to manage a population surge into the region. A relatively small sliver of Siberia over the border would be all the Chinese would require if indeed they needed more land, however they can probably put Dongbei to better use or higher pop density than it currently is. Russia has a declining population, and in fact there has been migration of Chinese for business purposes into the region recently (this is not necessarily formal /official migration). Combine this with a Russian gender imbalance resulting in more females than men has seen a trend in Chinese male/Russian female marriages in the region and consequently an increase in ethnic Chinese in the region.

      • Well said Pop, if things get that desperate they’re going to look around their neighbourhood, not look to pulling off some really difficult long distance conquest of a desert continent. and anyway, we’re already happy to sell them the stuff they need.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        The only thing stopping, an only 70 million strong Japan from adding Australia to their “Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere”, was a much more powerful and populous United States.
        Without the US Nuclear deterrent today, 1.2 billion Chinese with their enormous manafacturing capacity could pull of the same thing in a matter of days.


        “The concept of a unified East Asia took form based on an Imperial Japanese Army concept that originated with General Hachirō Arita, an army ideologist who served as Minister for Foreign Affairs from 1936 to 1940. The Japanese Army said the new Japanese empire was an Asian equivalent of the Monroe Doctrine,[15] especially with the Roosevelt Corollary. The regions of Asia, it was argued, were as essential to Japan as Latin America was to the U.S.[16]”

        As part of its war drive, Japanese propaganda included phrases like “Asia for the Asiatics!” and talked about the perceived need to liberate Asian countries from imperialist powers.[18] The failure to win the Second Sino-Japanese War 1937-1941 (-1945) was blamed on British and American exploitation of Southeast Asian colonies, even though the Chinese received far more assistance from the Soviet Union.[19] In some cases local people welcomed Japanese troops when they invaded, driving out British, French, and other governments and military forces. In general, however, the subsequent pragmatism and brutality of the Japanese military, particularly in China, led to people of the occupied areas regarding the new Asian imperialists as much worse than the Western imperialists.[18] The Japanese government directed that local economies be managed strictly for the production of raw war materials for the Japanese; a cabinet member declared, “There are no restrictions. They are enemy possessions. We can take them, do anything we want.”[20]

        An Investigation of Global Policy with the Yamato Race as Nucleus — a secret document completed in 1943 for high-ranking government use — laid out that Japan, as the originators and strongest military power within the region, would naturally take the superior position within the Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, with the other nations under Japan’s umbrella of protection.[3][4]

      • RobertoMEMBER

        Drought will hit the neighbourhood also up there. The russians may still be around to deliver their tactical nuke strikes.
        Australia is ringed by high rainfall coastline which could support lots of chinese or whoever else of the huge populations coming into next gen industrial power from up there.

      • Roberto, even in our many of our agricultural areas, and even with water, our soil is for the most part mediocre to shithouse, so leached that it takes massive much use of chemical fertilizer. Australia’s ag potential is much more limited than people realise.. And the huge northern agricultural potential of Oz was long ago debunked in a book called the Northern Myth https://blogs.crikey.com.au/northern/2014/02/06/bruce-davidson-and-the-myth-of-a-northern-food-bowl/.
        So long as we supply them with what they want, why take on some great coalition headed by the US and Japan who would be alarmed by such a takeover?

      • RobertoMEMBER

        So apply the fertiliser. They will no doubt also be installing those water pipes down from the north, or creating inland seas etc etc.
        And the Israelis grow plenty in the desert anyway.
        Re: the US alliance – you have to allow for big changes in geopolitics over a short time.

    • No need to even invade, just blockade the country. All of our fuel is imported. After that you can extract whatever tribute you desire.

      • I think we’ve still got some refineries, but you’ve certainly pointed to the stupidity of us allowing our industrial base to be so hollowed out, this is a real threat to our security.

      • RobertoMEMBER

        Yes, it is too easy – like Barrie said, we need to start preparing in earnest.
        And like I said, that throws the NIMBYism of immigration reduction into relief.
        We are already situated in their backyard. That has been our opportunity but is also an enduring problem for us.
        ps – I don’t doubt our immigration feeds the RE ponzi. But we could just change the RE tax and planning system? A higher land tax and estate tax could cope with any increase in population.

      • The hollpwing out of our industrial infrastructure and skills base that was largely built up during and after WW2It is THE RESULT of the mmigration driven population-debt Ponzi economy that we are now running. The economy that we are running has one outcome – to turn Australia into the Argentina of the region. Until you understand that you understand nothing. Just having a big population doesn’t make you strong. You are a historical ignoramus if you think that.

      • RobertoMEMBER

        What?? Our economy was hollowed out by the decision to spend all the receipts of the mining boom in the mistaken belief that this time was different and the rise of Chinese consumption would be exponential enough to cause a commodity boom for longer than the usual 15yrs or so. That fiscal spending included tax breaks for real estate which fed a price boom and wealth effect in to GDP, all of which allowed the AUD to rise too high for too long.
        You are conflating this with immigration levels which yes became part of this ponzi but in no way need to in the future or were prior to approx the year 2000.
        And not all hollowing out is bad. Some industries need to die. Creative destruction, comparative advantage all assist in better capital allocation.
        We have now a thriving and growing defence industry in armoured vehicles etc.
        Cheap cars can now flood in here.
        I have worked in moribund Australian sectors in the 80s which still benefited from protection. They were moribund places! They help no one.
        That was the way to being the poor white trash of Asia.
        That someone sooner or later would take out, to resume my starting point.

  4. Mining BoganMEMBER

    How on earth did we get to the situation where Chinese groups are sniping at each other over ‘Australian values’?


    I still don’t know what ‘Australian vales’ are anyway. Is it selling out you country? *waves noose at Andrew Robb* Doing your best for your owner? *waves at Sino Sam and Asbestos Julie* Destroying your kid’s future? *waves at Canberra*

    Want to hear a story about values in Straya? Yesterday four strangers came together in a surburban street to catch a couple of lost and distressed dogs. Busy road so there were others who joined in to stop traffic or door knock to see if anyone knew where they came from. After the dogs were tied up and the pound were on the way two of the original four rang their bosses and said they were delayed. Government departments. Bosses weren’t kind. Said wtte that there would have to be discussions about wasted time. Government departments who advertise about community values and service.

    There’s not many values left out there and our leaders and their minions are doing their best to remove them completely.

    This country is rooted.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Yeah, nice.

        Wonder if his train breakdown story related to thursday night in melbourne though. I haven’t heard too many strong community stories out of it.

      • They’ll do it after sustained economic depression and world wars – just like last time. It was only fear of a large group of males with combat training deciding to go all Russia 1917 that kept the western elites in line. Right now everyone’s too busy climbing over eachother on the social ladder to care about such things.

    • Its when a fresh off the boat, heavily accented 457 visa holder starts calling people mate to show how Aussie he is. We are a nation of immigrants after all.

    • Australian values? Dobbing in politicians because they have a NZ citizenship, what a dog act. He’s just going to be replaced by another Green anyway, maybe someone not so gentlemanly as Ludlam.

      • Dog act? Come one Owen, he has exposed Ludlam for being light on detail. Ludlam deserved it because it should be one of the first things you think of if you are a dual citizen and are looking to run for national office. All Luldlam’s fault.
        Edit: per news this morning it looks like Ludlam knew this was coming due to freedom of information requests along time ago. Australian values would have dictated Ludlam resign the first moment he became aware there was an issue not wait to jump because he was made aware the clerk of the Senate was to be informed. Simply waiting that long despite knowing better makes him non compliant with an australian value of doing the right thing no matter how personally unpalatable.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Ludlam deserved it because it should be one of the first things you think of if you are a dual citizen and are looking to run for national office.

        Only if you know you’re a dual citizen.

        When Ludlam was naturalised Australia didn’t recognise multiple citizenships. And he was in his teens, FFS – how’s a kid supposed to know the ins and outs of citzenship laws ?

        So perfectly reasonable for him to assume he was only an Australian citizen. Hard to see how he’s acted with anything less than integrity here.

      • “Only if you know you’re a dual citizen.”

        That’s got to be the lamest excuse ever.
        The first time he traveled to NZ *after* the AUS naturalisation he would have known (unless he never travelled to NZ afterwards)

        Now, above does not mean that I disagree that the whole thing is just one big load of bull.
        The sour point here is that he did not denounce “the other citizenship(s)” as if “that must transpire as half-allegiance” or something sinister.
        It is beyond logic that people that chose to love this country must prove that ad-infinitum, yet those that have no choice are presumably made of fidelity.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        That’s got to be the lamest excuse ever.

        If you say so.

        The first time he traveled to NZ *after* the AUS naturalisation he would have known (unless he never travelled to NZ afterwards)

        Right. So we have at least one possibility before even considering whether or not NZ record keeping and data matching thirty-odd years ago was good enough to make it impossible to “slip through”.

      • “Right. So we have at least one possibility before even considering whether or not NZ record keeping and data matching thirty-odd years ago was good enough to make it impossible to “slip through”.”

        I guess in your experience sovereign states have laid back attitude wrt its citizens status.
        And I could buy this if we were talking of a country devastated from the outside like Aye-Raq, Libya or some country that still keeps only the paper record of its citizenships.
        NZ (and AUS) has probably the highest automation and digital record database wrt its citizens and a chance of “slip through” is about the same as that the earth is actually a cube.
        but yep, at least once chance!
        and the chances he never went back to NZ in the last few decades are…?

        Ludlam isn’t an idiot. It is very likely he wanted to keep the NZ citizenship and I can see a few good reasons for that.
        He took his chance and it fired back. But he’s not a traitor, a caniving foreign agent or a sleeper because of that.
        IMO citizenship status does not guarantee loyalty. One is either loyal to this (any) contry or not. It is logical for a politician to be required to be a citizen residing in Australia but the requirement to renounce other citizenship(s) is…

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        I guess in your experience sovereign states have laid back attitude wrt its citizens status.

        In my experience as a citizen of multiple countries it is possible to enter one of your citizenship countries on the “wrong” passport without any difficulty. Something you are apparently suggesting is all but impossible.

        And I could buy this if we were talking of a country devastated from the outside like Aye-Raq, Libya or some country that still keeps only the paper record of its citizenships.
        NZ (and AUS) has probably the highest automation and digital record database wrt its citizens and a chance of “slip through” is about the same as that the earth is actually a cube.
        but yep, at least once chance!

        So in 1973, when Ludlam left NZ as a child, you don’t think maybe record keeping could have been a bit lax ? Especially considering at that time you didn’t even need a passport to travel between NZ and Australia ? Or that back then as a child, you wouldn’t have had your own individual passport but been on your parents ?

        You don’t think that maybe it’s taken someone apparently having to dig quite a bit to discover this because it wasn’t just a simple matter of typing “Scott Ludlam” into a database and getting “NZ Citizen” back ?

        and the chances he never went back to NZ in the last few decades are…?

        No idea. But if he had an Australian passport, and neither he nor the NZ immigration authorities had any reason to suspect he wasn’t solely an Australian citizen, what does it matter ?

        There is nothing at all unreasonable about a child being naturalised in the 1980s thinking that was all they needed to be wholely and solely an Australia citizen, if for no other reason at the time Australia didn’t recognise mutliple citizenships. Heck, I’d be willing to bet there’s a lot of people who pursue naturalisation TODAY who think that it will automatically renounce any other citizenships they might have (and it actually might, depending on the countries involved).

        As always, Occam’s Razor applies.

    • TailorTrashMEMBER

      I Can see a nice little earner there setting up training ” colleges” for strayan values …(funded by the strayan taxpayer of course ) ….nice board chairmanships for Andrew Robb and Bob Carr there too .

      And …….”Members of the Alliance will today host a seminar in Sydney to discuss their concerns over the “Chinese communist party-state exerted mass infiltrations into Australia”……………….but but ….what about those great “export business” opportunities ….of education and appartments ……..and Jobs and growth ..?………garn Straya?

    • Whatever values Australia had we lost in the 90s, our values now is anchored by greed, selfishness and hostility. There is also a clear lack of manners, of common decency and of awareness of others.

      We’ve turned into a Me Me Me culture, both promoted by governments and added to from the cultures we are bringing in.

      • You’re right. It’s not just the sheer volumes coming in, but the cultures that are coming in. There is a new breed of immigrants who are very much ‘me me me’, interested only in what they can get, never considering what they can give, and not really interested in interacting with the locals.

        Have you noticed the grouping by ethnicity in lunch rooms at work? Co-workers sectioning themselves off to speak in their native tongues during their breaks? Co-workers not making an effort to go to social events with their colleagues?

      • @Hunter10

        I sure have, all the different ethnic groups stick with each other when they go to lunch together. Work is even more full of clique groups now.

      • It’s not blindness it’s very much planned. Who cares, work parties are crap these days, everyone on the defensive because the workplace is full of little snitch bitches and gossips.

      • @Hunter – I get what you are deducting but I don’t reckon it’s right. Having worked abroad for a long time in Europe I did the same exact thing, upon reflection because it required the least effort from me. For instance at social events or lunches it was a nice break from the normal interactions to resort to cultural norms that I knew and ultimately missed (a bit). So I’d bank on it not being a conspiracy. Do your self a favour and get involved with them, you might find a new best mate or the like. I’d bet most of those new immigrants would love to go for a beer and watch the footy or go eat something outside their normal cultural choices given half a chance. I know I did when I was in their place.

      • drsmithyMEMBER


        The Anglosphere is ground zero for the “me me me” culture of greed and selfishness. We’re exporting it, not importing it.

        Anyone who has spent any time working in foreign countries (no, England doesn’t count) will understand why people with a common language socialise together and how hard it is to mix with the natives.

    • that is a very good read

      the money quotes for mine…….

      Many retirees will arrive in their late 60s and 70s with debt-servicing obligations for years to come. Those who rent will grapple with a similar fate insofar as their monthly living costs will be heftier than the debt-free owner-occupied dream they once envisioned.

      In one popular retirement income calculator, the default assumption is that total housing costs amount to just $85 per week for a “comfortable” living.

      Add in other standard items, and you appear to only need about $43,000 a year to live. Yet in Sydney the median annual rental cost on a house (or mortgage repayments on a $500,000 loan) are another circa $30,000 a year, lifting annual living costs to $73,000.

      The remedies involve longer working lives for folks indentured to their debt or the desire to maintain the quality of rental accommodation they have grown accustomed to.

      Super savers and financial advisers should also consider making more conservative assumptions regarding expenses in the final few decades of their planning horizon.


      The RBA’s skinny cash rate makes defensive investments like deposits effectively non-viable as a credible asset-class for retirees, compelling them to chase the prospect of superior income in riskier alternatives like leveraged shares and real estate. (Not many retirees appreciate that buying major bank stocks is giving them 20 times leveraged equity.)

      • +1 high house values are a zero sum game for society. The only winners are speculators and flippers.

  5. I remember some years back engaging in a Though Exercise.
    Can Pragmatist ever be offended by Reality?
    Reality is often harsh, combining the worst of nature with the worst of humanity, but never-the-less it remains Reality and it remains Real. Is the real ever offensive or is it simply the medium with which we work? the fabric of our world.
    I, like most people, believe I’m a Realist, however unlike most I’m also (on most issues) a Pragmatist. I remember reading somewhere (“The Atlantic” I believe) that 90% of adults consider themselves to be Realists, yet of that 90% we have a little over 80% that are easily offended by mischief making of both man and gods.
    Has one asking oneself: What percentage of the population are true Realists?
    Evidently there’s a huge difference between Realist and Pragmatist, I sense that this diversion is stronger in Australia than almost anywhere else in the world.
    repost right spot.

      • They shouldn’t be, which is kind of my point.
        I’d say the difference lies in the definitions that we adopt in our hearts.
        The correct social dictionary antonym for Realist is probably Dreamer, whereas the correct social antonym for Pragmatists is probably a cross between Idealist and Principlist. If I had to guess at an answer I say it lies in the social connection that bonds Principlism with Humanism which is in the final analysis the root causes / source of all Religion.

      • cheers Blackfella. So given it’s a scientific fact there is no support at all for religion, rendering it as having as much truth/proof as the santa claus, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny are we being stubbornly deliberate in not embracing our underlying realism? Is the embrace of realism to confronting for most, hence it’s why we persist as a society to not only tell each other but ultimately believe in infantile stories as a way to go about our business?
        My suspicion is it’s too confronting for us to take responsibility for where we are and what we are doing.
        Anyways carn the mighty Hawks! Go Hodgy!

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Yes, well,…I reckon our perception of pragmatism and “Reality” has been somewhat perverted by Ideology,…in paticular the Economic free market idelogy of Neoliberalism, which has lead to an almost complete subversion of Western Democracies.

      The pragmatic compromises of the past, nutted out between Labor and Capital, through a left/right Economic dichotomy,.. are now shut down with simpleton analogies of Nation state economies with house hold budgets.
      The old “how do you pay for it wankery.
      Such a mentality would never have put a Man on the Moon,…or built a National health service, Inspite of a near bankrupted post war UK.

      Like old mate states in the following clip,…there are no economic arguments in War,…maybe it’s time for another War,…a Class War!


    • drsmithyMEMBER

      I think you are in an affirming the consequent fallacy.

      Being a pragmatist may imply being a realist. But being a realist does not necessarily imply being a pragmatist.

  6. The loons are well and truly entrenched and thriving in in the Queensland LNP.

    Queensland LNP pledges to promote coal and ‘resist environmental groups’

    Proposals before LNP state convention include pulling out of Paris climate agreement and banning migrants from nations that recognise sharia


    Mind you, the “no tax payer support for Adani because they’re crooked cunts” get my vote of approval. More spine than their Federal counterparts.

    • It is a mixed bag of ideas, some good, some bad.

      A proposal from the Groom branch near Toowoomba called on the federal government to “pull out of the Paris Climate Accord as it weakens Australia’s sovereignty and economy without helping the environment in any measurable way”.

      Well that is hard to argue against. I have not seen any plausible explanation that the Paris Accord actually does anything except international virtue signalling. Signing up the the Paris Accord will not get us an electric car industry in Oz. Australia has been shooting itself in the feet for decades now with technological progress, so why stop now?

      Selling our coal is a very bad idea – it is too valuable to sell, as we may need it in the future for something more important than house prices. Digging up a little bit for our own use is probably not very important as it is a short term thing. Another 20-30 years and most people will have forgotten what coal is.

      also includes calls to ban immigration from nations that recognise sharia, privatise the ABC, and condemn public spending on “altering traffic lights for ideological purposes”

      Mixed bag there. Ban immigration, but accept victims of countries with Sharia. Good idea – we need to make it clear we are not down with the 9th century religious rule. Privatise the ABC? What, so we have another Channel 10? For all its faults, at least the ABC is a bit different. Ideological traffic lights? I am not sure exactly, but I think we have them in Sydney and I hate them. That one is a cracker!

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Seems like a recipe for Cultural Suicide.

        An Islamic world for all,…after 100 years of “men going their own way”?

      • “Both sexes have different challenges; we’ve lost sight of that. We’re stuck in a gender war and it’s harming our children. It’s become very narcissistic, selfish and a sense of entitlement is running rife.
        “We need to get a focus back on having respect for other human beings, for partnerships, loving bonds and trust rather than simply seeing what you can get out of a relationship.

        Amen to that.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        “It’s become very narcissistic, selfish and a sense of entitlement is running rife.”

        LOL. Harder to think of a clearer example of that than the taking-our-bat-and-ball-and-going-home approach of “Men Going Their Own Way”.

      • “LOL. Harder to think of a clearer example of that than the taking-our-bat-and-ball-and-going-home approach of “Men Going Their Own Way”.”

        Who says ALL these guys are going all out and “taking-our-bat-and-ball-and-going-home”. It is more a mindset and can simply be guys choosing not to get married, having kids or being a in de-facto relationship. At the very least it is simply being aware of the financial risks of marriage/having children and being alert to the character/actions of your significant other. If you read the article it says guys that “are taking their bat and ball and going home ” are at the extreme end of the spectrum.

        Read the comments at the end of Mining Bogan’s article. The mindset is more widespread than you think. Younger males are no longer aspiring to be the Sensitive New Age Guy of the 80’s. Wearing turtlenecks and “getting in touch with your feminine side” has gone out of favour with young guys now valuing their masculinity (notice all the beards and references to being an “alpha male” these days?)

        If your happy to be a patsy or “Mangina” going all in with your eyes and ears closed go for it. There’s plenty of narcissistic, selfish and entitled Kim Kardashian wannabes waiting for a guy (I assume) like you

    • TailorTrashMEMBER

      ….”house that looks like a garage with a tumor ” ………..brilliant and so true …..and describes many in Sydney too …….

  7. I would have thought the idea behind Brexit was to have a bit of protectionism, so that the young could enjoy a country a bit more like what boomers had, with more affordable housing for instance. But gen y are massively against it.

    So it seems to me they are begging to be abused. They are abusing themselves to a large extent.

    Now Brexit doesn’t really sound like it will be much of a Brexit at all.


    Why is gen y such a bunch of gimps?

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      A right wing Brexit, was never going to deliver much to the young and working class (the vast majority of the population)


      “a key failing of modern politics, not only in Britain but in most of the developed world: the re-emergence of an unaccountable political class.
      The most distinctive feature of the campaign was the lack of an identifiable ideological battlefield. This was not about a clash of worldviews, values or even arguments. Rather, it was a contest in who could fearmonger most effectively.”

      “Pandora’s box
      Set out like this – and it is hard to over-estimate how simplistically confrontational the arguments on both sides were – it is easier to understand why the Brexit camp won.
      The EU referendum opened up a Pandora’s box of division rooted in class that many hoped had been closed in the post-war period with the temporary advance of the welfare state and social democratic policies.
      However inadvertently, the Remain leaders championed the cause of a wealthy elite that included the bankers and hedge fund managers who had until recently been publicly vilified for their role in the financial crash of 2008.
      That was a slap in the face both to the working class and to much of the middle class who paid the price for the economic elite’s reckless and self-serving profligacy and its subsequent demands for gargantuan bail-outs.
      Those favouring the EU – who typically suffered least from the 2008 crash – only added insult to injury by labelling its victims as “racists” for demanding reassurances that politicians would again serve them, not an economic elite.
      Economic pillage”

      “Left’s case for Brexit
      The left’s case against the EU was frequently articulated by Tony Benn, a Labour minister in the 1960s and 1970s. At an Oxford Union debate in 2013, a year before he died, Benn observed:
      The way that Europe has developed is that the bankers and multi-national corporations have got very powerful positions and, if you come in on their terms, they will tell you what you can and can’t do – and that is unacceptable.
      My view about the European Union has always been, not that I am hostile to foreigners but that I’m in favour of democracy. … I think they are building an empire there.
      Nearly 40 years earlier, in 1975, during a similar referendum on leaving what was then called the EEC, Benn pointed out that what was at stake was Britain’s parliamentary democracy. It alone “offered us the prospect of peaceful change; reduced the risk of civil strife; and bound us together by creating a national framework of consent for all the laws under which we were governed.”
      His warning about “civil strife” now sounds eerily prophetic: the referendum campaign descended into the ugliest public political feuding in living memory.
      For Bennites and the progressive left, internationalism is a vital component of the collective struggle for the rights of workers and the poor. The stronger workers are everywhere, they less easily they can be exploited by the rich through divide-and-rule policies.
      Globalisation, on the other hand, is premised on a different and very narrow kind of internationalism: one that protects the rights of the super-rich to drive down wages and workers’ rights by demanding the free movement of labor, while giving this economic elite the freedom to hide away their own profits in remote tax-havens.
      Globalisation, in other words, switched the battlefield of the class struggle from the nation state to the whole globe. It allowed the trans-national economic elite to stride the world taking advantage of every loophole they could find in the weakest nations’ laws and forcing other nations to follow suit. Meanwhile, the working and middle classes found themselves defenseless, largely trapped in their national and regional ghettoes, and turned against each other in a global free market.”

      • EP
        Just my thoughts….but I thought Brexit vote was really London vs the rest. Seems London wanted it with all the yuppie travel attitudes and the benefit of all the money coming in for property etc to cover their CAD. Effectively, again like Australia, the CAD(and all the lack of real production and jobs that cause it) represents a redistribution of income to London from their regions. So London thinks EC membership is great. The rest long for an independent UK (maybe esp Scotland!!! 🙂 ) If I remember that was largely the pattern of the vote.

    • Because like most people they’ve been trained by the neoliberals to think that way. Truth be told, Brexit is exposing Thatcherised Britain for what it really is, and it isn’t pretty.

    • Well there’s no hope of a left wing Brexit now that it’s been irreparably associated with racisms and not being cosmopolitan and sophisticated.

  8. This week I visited a modern day car grave yard / chop shop in Newcastle.
    I met the owner of the establishment through a friend of a friend that used to be in the Car repair game. My friend introduced me to this chop shop operator so I’d understand the reality of the car wrecking game as it’s being played today. In this game things have changed dramatically over the last decade, specifically changes (2011) in our insurance rules and regulations have had the side effect of destroying these businesses, and destroying the work and skills development that came with this work. The real costs for these changes are being paid by many Aussies living life in the bottom quartile of our economy.

    There’s not much to say about the chop shop, it’s literally as the name implies, They buy cars from Salvage auctions and saw the car in two (usually just behind the line of the dash. The front half gets loaded into a container bound for a disassembly plant somewhere in Pakistan. The rear half of the car gets crushed and recycled. The doors and wheels are removed and stored hoping fro a quick resale into the Car repair market, however due to storage restrictions apparently most of the doors join the rear half of these cars in the crusher.
    Now I’m sure you have the mental image of 20 year old cars twisted into unrecognizable junk yard sculpture but that’s just not the case. Most of the cars getting chopped are less than 5 years old, many have minimal damage, the kind of thing that just 10 years ago would have been repaired locally with a few days labour and less than $1000 in parts is today chopped. I asked the Chop shop operator why he wasn’t removing the engines, if that’s all they wanted. The answer was Australian safety rules/regulations and local labour costs, as well as the need to match modern engines with their electronics if you ever wanted them to work properly again.
    This job that had supported many a mechanic and Panel beater during hard times was now being exported. Most of us getting out of jail have very few avenues open to us but one path that was always available was to utilize your time (and the mechanical skills that you learned in jail) to build / repair a car. The constructive use of your time is foundational in the trans-formative process of moving from Institutionalized jail-bird to valued citizen, yet with a stroke of a pen by someone somewhere we’ve completely removed this path to wealth and societal reintegration. It’s these unintended consequences of Regulation that make me such a strong believer believer in free markets.

    • boomengineeringMEMBER

      Bit similar to the lathe repair I had to quote on, then telling the client that buying new Chinese one would be cheaper.
      A paper cup could probably be fixed but why would you.

      • ^^^

        Because the pollution and wast creation is not perceived as important today, when it reaches proportions of the apocalypse as seen int he movie “Idiocracy” – one more paper cup could trigger the rubish avalnache, methaforically speaking, and literally too…

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        Unfortunately correct but one has to also consider how much waste and energy would be involved with repair of the paper cup..In this case I had quoted the job of replacing a small bearing deep inside the headstock 6 months ago which they couldn’t afford at the time but since transgressed and shed iron shavings into the entire gearbox and feed screw box as well.
        Sure to use a chipped porcelain cup is better for the environment, but repairing a shattered one may incur higher cost than proper disposal of the recyclable paper. Also the bed and slideways needed regrinding which means more transportation and energy loss.over the more productive and energy efficient new lathe.
        Having said that I still prefer the solid old machines which were designed to last and repaired when needed.

      • boomengineeringMEMBER

        A lot of truth in ”Idiocracy” but they failed to take into account that rich counties with more waste have lower birth rates across the spectrum of intelligence

      • boom engineering

        I did not mean to say you were wrong.
        Only refering to the prevalent mindset in the populace that everything is disposable and a magic wand will do away with it (as it goes in the bin and truck takes it away) and the trap of tangible vs. abstract cost (e.g. cost somewhere else or cost to the nature)…. Hence that the mindset that “disposable NOT_EQUAL good” must be nourished.
        unfortunately this goes against the very devil her self: corporate profits.

    • It’s incredibly disappointing I rescued my FD RX-7 from the wrecking yard, it had superficial damage and was considered an economic write off. I love old cars too, like my 45+ year old Datsun’s. Stuff you can work on without a Masters Degree in computer science and electrical engineering.

      All the old blokes with proper panel beating skills are retiring and I fear the old school panel beating skills will be lost to the sands of time.

      • I thought you’d need a masters degree to work on a rotary engine.

        If you have an accident and it’s an economic write off can you say, ‘just kidding I didn’t want to claim it on insurance’? I worry about it with my Defender, as they’re not making them anymore, the insured value won’t come close to covering the replacement cost. I looked at some specialty insurers and they were having a laugh with the premiums.

      • Rotary motor is easier to rebuild than a piston motor, far less moving parts. It was considered an economic write off in Ireland, but I restored it and imported it back to Australia so it’s record over here is clean. The damage was very superficial. But values in Ireland were rock bottom of at the time due to the recession in 2010. I bought it back off my insurance company for the grand sum of 750 euro which the ECU alone was worth. I would have made a lot of money parting it out but instead decided to get her back on the road.

        Once a car is over 30 years old like my Datsun 240z’s you get a lot better treatment from speciality places like Shannon’s who let you buy back the salvage / wreck. Agreed value is also a lot less headache. My RX-7 insurance is ridiculous in Inner West Sydney (it’s a Western Sydney Lebbo’s favorite car to steal), she’s nearly 25 years (2020) and it will be easy to put on classic registration then!

      • @Gavin
        I hear what you’re saying I used to drive an NSU Ro80, damm I loved that car.
        Mind you the 13B is an infinitely better engine, the apex seals actually last long enough to enjoy the driving experience.

      • I agree completely working on old cars is both enjoyable and foundational from a skills development perspective.
        As you say Wankel engines are in many ways simpler affairs than piston engines because there are far less moving parts.
        What I find particularly disappointing with the current write-off rules in NSW is the fact that this avenue to self fulfillment and economic betterment (car restoration) has been slammed shut by vested interests. There is no logical reason why for instance Hail damaged cats are Statutory write offs (can never be reregistered anywhere in Australia), there’s nothing mechanically wrong with these cars they can be in perfect mechanical condition yet off to the chop they go.
        For any down on his luck individual trying to improve his (or her) lot in life the slamming shut of this particular door is in my opinion and unforgivable sin. The value that these people could offer by reforming themselves is completely lost to our society. This sort of personal reformation starts with the realization that as an individual you can positively impact the direction of your life if you’re simply prepared to focus and translate that mental focus and physical effort into economic value (as new car procured for couple of K$ and lots of effort)

      • The demise of the pannel beater; them and sign writers use to have the best Christmas parties.

      • Blackfella the ro80 was way ahead of its time when you consider its design was from the 1960s and 1980s Audi’s looked just like them.

        I saw this video the other day

        The Ro80 has to be quite rare in Australia, I believe enthusiasts have been able to correct the engines issues and make them quite durable. Although a lot had 13b’s put in them too.

      • Yeah I’m sure NSU’s are very unusual in Australia. I bought my Ro80 from a friend whose father had actually worked at NSU so the car had spent most of it’s life in NeckarSulm (which is the name of the town near Heilbronn where they were built and where the name NSU comes from) at the time I was working in Helibronn off and on, He told me that his Dad was thinking about selling his old NSU (that had lived most of it’s life in the garage) so naturally I was all over that. The Ro80 was way ahead of its time and not just for the Wankel engine, the suspension and breaking were really well matched to the performance making the car a real pleasure to drive, sure it was no where near as quick as other performance cars through the corners but damn it was fun to drive. At the time I owned a Cosworth but I actually preferred to drive the Ro80.

    • apparently it’s the cost of repairing all the sensors etc that make it so expensive. Therefore they just write them off

      • Thx – time is not my friend at the moment. Too much going on with these stupid account freezes and limitations on approved business flows out of China. Also dealing with a bunch of Chinese control freaks who have no clue of what they are doing and the industry risks they are exposing themselves and their shareholders to.

        Just have to say, I have warned that the worm has turned and it is getting worse on the ground all the time with outflow restrictions from China. Most of the successful transactions with Chinese companies that are occurring now are with entities with strong cash positions and assets already outside of China. I am not sure how much further this will be allowed to go as it is having an impact on legitimate business in China. The lower restrictions in place from 1 July really are biting, a number of the private providers of mortgages to Chinese are limiting their new deals as a result (again, wife is a member of the local association) and focussing on assets and cashflow outside China to grant approvals (both amounts lent and interest rates have increased significantly in the last couple of weeks).

  9. Did anyone see Trumpy give Macron’s Mrs a compliment? “You are in good shape …. beautiful”. Right while his own Mrs was next to her.

    Now …. there is nothing wrong in my view a guy giving a girl a sincere compliment ….. but ffs …. with Trump being such a sleazy dinosaur …. I doubt Mrs Macron would be to impressed.

    Trumpy probably had visions of a threesome when opening his gob.

    Ok ….. Haroldus …. work your magic.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Surely to be eligible for a 457 one should already be qualified in the position in question. Also where did this guy advertise the position to get no calls? Tales I hear are of hundreds of applications for every job.

      There’s holes in this story.

      • 1 of the comments says similar.

        TeacherMelbourne,Jul 15 2017 at 8:27am
        I thought the whole point of the 457 system was so employers could bring in fully trained skilled workers not bring in workers to train? The whole skilled shortage list is a joke you have to ask why is Accounting on the list when the Governments own Dept of Employment and Productivity Agency says there is no shortage of Accountants? Is it because if Accounting was taken off the list there would be a massive drop in university enrollments?

  10. This blows my mind.

    Asking price: $1,350,000 – $1,450,00

    But I wonder if the buyers would be aware of potential soil contamination? This place has the Warehouse I was looking at backing on to it. So there is Benzene contamination in the soil and it looks like someone was growing vegetables in that yard!

    This was the Warehouse.

  11. Fortunately for US-EU relations he is so parochial he didn’t t try out that beginner French trap with the the verb
    ‘baiser’ when meeting Mme Macron.

  12. https://www.domain.com.au/news/macquarie-banker-michael-cook-lists-his-balgowlah-beachfront-home-for-10-million-20170324-gv502u/

    “At that price level the most recent comparable sale locally is the $11 million paid last year for the Belgiorno-Nettis family’s long-held modernist home in Clontarf that was bought by Madina Tao and Mongkol Phara, of Cambodia’s ruling families.”

    We gotta compete with friggen Cambodia too.

    I don’t understand why the upper crusts ain’t pissed. Even private school boy doctors and lawyers have been impoverished. Maybe they’re just as clueless as the rest of the population.

  13. It’s a repost from earlier in the week, but definitely worth a read.

    In summary, we’ve blown our chance to maintain something close to status quo, now it’s just a matter of how bad it gets. Based on the last twenty years of token actions and disinformation from the vested interests we’re going to go the full Mad Max. So keep adding to your post apocalyptic skill set as their going to come in handy.

  14. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    Could a current or future China, follow in Japan’s footsteps?

    The only thing stopping, an only 70 million strong Japan from adding Australia to their “Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere”, was a much more powerful and populous United States.
    Without the US Nuclear deterrent today, 1.2 billion Chinese with their enormous manafacturing capacity could pull of the same thing in a matter of days.


    “The concept of a unified East Asia took form based on an Imperial Japanese Army concept that originated with General Hachirō Arita, an army ideologist who served as Minister for Foreign Affairs from 1936 to 1940. The Japanese Army said the new Japanese empire was an Asian equivalent of the Monroe Doctrine,[15] especially with the Roosevelt Corollary. The regions of Asia, it was argued, were as essential to Japan as Latin America was to the U.S.[16]”

    As part of its war drive, Japanese propaganda included phrases like “Asia for the Asiatics!” and talked about the perceived need to liberate Asian countries from imperialist powers.[18] The failure to win the Second Sino-Japanese War 1937-1941 (-1945) was blamed on British and American exploitation of Southeast Asian colonies, even though the Chinese received far more assistance from the Soviet Union.[19] In some cases local people welcomed Japanese troops when they invaded, driving out British, French, and other governments and military forces. In general, however, the subsequent pragmatism and brutality of the Japanese military, particularly in China, led to people of the occupied areas regarding the new Asian imperialists as much worse than the Western imperialists.[18] The Japanese government directed that local economies be managed strictly for the production of raw war materials for the Japanese; a cabinet member declared, “There are no restrictions. They are enemy possessions. We can take them, do anything we want.”[20]

    • Without the US Nuclear deterrent today, 1.2 billion Chinese with their enormous manafacturing capacity could pull of the same thing in a matter of days.

      Why would they?

      • “Because they can?”

        Yeah… Nah.
        This is a trademark of the westworld.
        Empires invade for benefits in their early stage, “because they can” is only done at a decaying stage.
        China is still an aspiring empire and has no reason to undermine peacefull economic invasion (and volountary surrender) of the other countries.

  15. Mining BoganMEMBER

    Any experts on school photo body language here?


    St Mal the Spiv trying to suck up to chief spiv El Trumpo but gets shouldered out so has to go talk to the other kid with no friends, Theresa Mayday. Japan and India having a chat about the bloke that sits between them in Economics. Captain of the judo team Vlad just looks extremely bored and thinking about buying Fonzie’s leather jacket. That nice Trudeau boy more concerned about his hair until he realises the cameras are there. Angela not the school prefect anymore but won’t accept the decision.

    Reckon their parents will want a copy? Some must be deeply ashamed of what they’ve raised.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Reckon she dressed like a Commie to piss El Trumpo off. She gets a perverse kick out of it every time he accuses her of stealing his lunch money.

    • I did see that the leader of the free world was put at the end of the bottom row – the spot most likely to be trimmed from any photo – but then Macron volunteered to take that spot so that Trumpy could move in one. Not sure whether Macron has an old people fetish going or what, but he is being conspicuous in his sucking up to a bloke who’s being given the barge pole treatment by most other leaders.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Notice how when everyone walked off Angela turned around to see what the Handshake Duo were whispering about?

        There’s some paranoia for ya.

    • TailorTrashMEMBER

      One wonders how and whom allocates those positions ( by lottery ?) to corral all those giant egos in place with out it becoming an unseemly push and shove scrum ?

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Oh dear, and St Mal had already sold his arse to El Trumpo to get that deal through.

      That’s his arse and his soul gone. Not much left of his country either. Just between you, me and the fence post, this Turnbull chap might be in a spot of bother.

  16. Terry McCann sits on the fence again. This time……….might be different?


    ‘It is the specifics which are always different. And this time around the specifics are “more different” than they’ve ever been. Or at least, as that’s a pretty big claim, since we’ve seen them in the modern era.

    The two things which we have never seen before is central banks actually and quite deliberately feeding fuel into the fire, and Chinese money flooding into key Western property markets.’

    ‘We’ve never had a global boom like this before; we will also have a bust like we’ve never seen before;’

    ‘Understand that, yes, “this time it really is different”, but that does not mean the good times (if you’re an owner) will just keep going.

    So foreign money really is inflating our property market. Shock horror Brian.

    • adelaide_economistMEMBER

      Yes, notice how in recent months it is suddenly a ‘given’ that Chinese (and other foreign) buying has had this huge impact on Australia – especially in housing – and yet not much more than one or two years ago we were being lectured from the nation’s media through to a number of commenters on MB that it was ‘racism’ and that Chinese buying was miniscule/negligible.

      We’re going to have more of these ‘overnight conversions’ in narrative in respect to a range of things that have been going on in this country in the last twenty years. I suspect migration is the next cab off the rank for the ‘forget what we called you last year, this year it’s obvious that migration actually is having an impact on congestion/access to health&education/environment/wages etc’.

    • TailorTrashMEMBER

      …he is right there ….this time IS different ……past generations of Australians would have fought (and did ) to protect their children’s homes ……today they are for sale
      for the best price to anyone who has the cash …and F$&? our children …disgraceful ….and this will not end well for Straya .

      • We have lived the high life. We’ve spent more than we earned and we didn’t really want to work (as a nation) The Chinese worked and saved. Now they have the money. Now we are going to tell them their savings are worthless because we won’t allow them to buy assets with them? Good way to get hostility going.
        Also what is the naswer? We need, more than ever to sell off assets to pay for our lifestyle. So if we don’t sell them houses we sell more mines, businesses and farms?

        Note I’m not attacking anyone’s opinion. Where we are is the result of 60 years of economic stupidity and resulting atrocious policy. It’s done.

      • TailorTrashMEMBER

        Mate …I totally agree …we had a great country back some time in the early 70s ………then we got complacent ……..then we got lazy ………then we got stupid …..
        then we got stupid and greedy ….and that is where we are today ………..stupid and greedy ………..and soon we might not have a home or a country ………..Australians might become displaced persons…………..I know it sounds ridiculous…….but if you had told me in 1974 that Australians in 2017 would have had to compete with foreigners for the homes their parents built I would not have believed it ……..

        Nothing is certain in this world ……………..a few years ago I had the good fortune to visit Famagusta in The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus ………a wonderful 20th century Mediterranean city that is now totally abandoned and stripped of everything of value down to the bare concrete shells ……………it’s inhabitants had to flee as Turkish jets straffed its beachside appartments ………..it stands a silent monument to the uncertainty of history ……….take note Straya ….as you revel in the value of your houses ……….

  17. Mining BoganMEMBER

    I was over at Michael West’s place, *waves*,when I stumbled on this one I missed.


    Hear that silence after Michael was talking about hypocrisy? That was the young reporter realising no bonus for him this year. That was one door you should have kept closed lad.

    • Too bad we can’t clone Mr. West.
      100 more of him would still only just scratch the surface of the rorts and rentseeking that is called governance in Australia.

    • You could see he was totally enjoying that. The little smirk when the interviewer decides it’s a lost battle and moves on. Bloody Gold. Go Micheal West!

    • The schadenfreude was great watching that. Along with the ok let’s move on pivot. Haha.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Ha! Had to google BFE.

        So we’ve probably got the unit right next to the neighbours bedroom. Modern living. It’s all the rage.

        Edit: Sweet Baby Jebus!!! An authentic Googonian village!! What in the name of all that is holy is that? And what are the backpacks for, a massive hike from the nearest public transport?


      • Not quite BFE but you can see it from Googong. Dreadful place, subdivided sheep farm in the middle of no where. An urban planning disaster, lots of poorly built houses and units crammed on top of each other. Testament to the ACT Goverments land release policy that pushing people over to NSW.

  18. Mining BoganMEMBER

    Have a look at this and the underlying message


    Beneath all the crap written comes the message that that poor couple who’ve bought way out west are the true winners. Avoid sensible advice and just get a broker with a ‘can-do’ attitude. Sounds like subprime to me.

    Like how the renters are described as ‘stuck’ and the tiny house lady is spoken of as crammed and may eventually regret her decision too. Throw in the disgraced doctor with a few more myths and we’re leading everyone into a life of misery.

    Just sick of this bullshit.

    • The tiny house movement is a great threat to societal norms and the whole Domain ediface which is why they hound anyone for even considering the alternatives. In the US after the 2008 crash many people looked to the tiny house movement as a way of escaping a massive mortgage hanging around their necks.

      • As others have pointed out previously, the tiny house movement only assists in pushing up the price of land. If I’m given $100 to buy house and land, and now instead of spending $20 on the house, I’m only spending $5, that’s $95 to go towards the land bubble instead of $80.
        That aside, I do like the smaller things. When in Japan I’m always impressed how they can design things that are small, and still work well. We don’t do that here. We can’t even do big well when it comes to housing. But my comments on things architectural shouldn’t be taken too seriously because I do rather like geodesic domes.

      • You probably know what a tensegrity is then. I actually built a geodesic dome model out of kebab sticks many moons ago, and it was a very pretty thing to look at. There were quite a few books published about building them back in the 80’s when that sort of thing was popular.

        The final conclusion was that they were nightmare to finish and seal and did not play well with most rectilinear furniture. If house scale 3D printing gets a go on some of those things might change and maybe there will be a revival.

    • That is a truly heartwarming story about Matt and Nicki! It has really brightened up my Sunday morning. Poor people have some wonderful virtues – austerity, sacrifice and low expectations – and modern Australia is giving them lots of opportunities to shine. They grew up with a backyard, and now they don’t have one. Despite this they just soldier on! Good for them.

      Sadly the article ended on a horror story of a ratbag greenie living in a caravan house and disrespecting the Banks. She will get whats coming to her for sure.

    • Does anyone else notice how ridiculous paying over half a million dollars for a 392 square metre block of land and house in Truganina ?? Holy fuck

    • Every board, every nail bears the memory of the friend who helped her bang it in … Sometimes, sheer grunt. Cash paid to a builder friend was “the most sensible five-grand I spent on the project”.

      I would have totally done her it for free.

      More on point, that advice to buy a 1BR apartment is just criminal, especially if it is a newer build. These are the properties that will be savaged come any downturn, if they don’t burn, crack or fall down in the meantime. That ‘experienced Melbourne real estate agent’ is a total c#nt.

  19. I wish the ALP had a Jeremy Corbyn, or at least a left wing that didn’t have a history of corruption and abuse of low paid workers via various unions.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      The biggest problem with our Labor “Left” is its preoccupation with identity politics issues.
      This has happened within all the “Left” leaning parties of the west,…an effective take over of these parties has happened, by a Professional class of people, who believe in “Meritocracy” and use it to rationalise inequality. And to reiterate what Prof Frank says below,…there is no Solidarity in a Meritocracy.


      There is only one solution, to the lack of real political representation of working people and the poor (the vast majority of our population) and that is a “People’s party” that is actually run by the rank and file of a people’s party.
      Its gonna take a fight.


      • Labour = Workers rights w/ proactive social programs to enable up lift for all….

        disheveled…. then the grand bargain [sellout] of Third Way got rammed down it constituencies gob as TINA…..

    • Hear, hear.

      I also wish that the Liberal party had a liberal minded politician. That the thoughtful and sincere Labor candidate and thoughtful and sincere Liberal candidate had a battle of ideas and that the press reported upon this battle with insightful analysis to help us understand the world as it is and what it could be.

      I’ve more chance finding true love at the Tote at 4am, but one can dream.

      • I think they are a bit more Liberal than what they let on, it’s their selfish old voters that aren’t. Council amalgamations weren’t popular in Sydney, and neither is high density.

        They also seem to have the tradie vote. I don’t think they’d dare give them a dose of more unbridled globalisation.

    • Corbyn is kind of a socialist democrat Trump, the media, particularly the guardian very much don’t want him, which makes him more popular, and if he does get in his policies, whilst well meaning will cause a crash because ponzi, globalisation and the fact we don’t make nothin, so he probably won’t attempt to make any significant changes.

      • It must be painful to put everything through your simplistic mental bias filters…… where everything not conforming to your ideological bent gets the inevitable ev’bal branding of collapse and shat upon….

        Disheveled…. might be nice to back up those opines….

      • Lol it’s true the UK is just as much a ponzi as we are. Barely a hair can be touched on it’s head or it collapses.

      • Skippy
        If you understood any macro at all you would understand what Owen is saying. You don’t!

      • Flawse…..

        Please do inform me… too date your camp has a propensity for a very high fail rate….

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      I’d be happy to see that here. Didn’t someone say you had to have possession for quite some time though?

      Anyhow, this guy deserves it. Kept on being told that there were no fees to pay. Betcha he thought it was a mistake in his favour and kept quiet because he was giving it to the man.

      • Possession for 5 years. The main key is to pay the property taxes and homeowner association fees. The state doesn’t take kindly to vacant owners not paying the property taxes.

        Be interesting to know what the situation is in Sydney/Melbourne wrt.to unpaid taxes on the vacant shitholes houses and commerical property about the place.

    • Southern California (from the article – present day – owner who left unit vacant for 13 years goes to check on it):

      Then last week I visited my unit but the locks were changed, and when I peeked through a window it looked occupied! The homeowner association’s manager said she thought the occupants were the new owners because they had been living there, paying the homeowner association fees, attending board meetings and voting. I asked if the association foreclosed on my unit and was told “No” but that the manager received a title change a few years ago. My neighbors didn’t even bother to tell me or keep me apprised that squatters had taken over my property. I’ve since hired an attorney but shouldn’t someone have told me this?

      Sydney (13 years from now – owner who left unit vacant for 13 years goes to check on it):

      Then last week I went to visit my shithole dogbox unit but the building was totally gone! At the address where it used to stand there was an even taller, uglier one with even less setback (2mm from the footpath vs a whole 5cm in the old one) and even smaller dogboxes than the one I purchased back in the boom times of 2017 when you couldn’t possibly lose loose by ‘getting on the property ladder’. The owner’s corporation manager said the building had so many cracks, rotting walls from rain, shattering glass panels and fires and no-one was able to pay the strata fees, so it was torn down 6 years ago and each owner was paid the net value of their share of the land, minus outstanding strata fees and demolition costs (net payment amounting to approximately $2 for the larger units) and the land sold to developers. Since I couldn’t be contacted they donated my entitlement of $0.75 to charity. I’ve since hired a solicitor but shouldn’t someone have told me this?

    • TailorTrashMEMBER

      …..I don’t understand Spanish …..but that looks like a bad photoshop ……..surely it can’t be real …..” for whom the selfie tolls ” ……….

  20. TailorTrashMEMBER

    Sorry Nick ….Malcolm and Tones can have all the bro love in the world and it ain’t going to save the LNP at the next election ……the pity of it is that Bill Fallshortman will slide in to government and be no better ………http://ab.co/2vpQBpy

    • I would say there are still more cars on the road containing asbestos clutches/ gaskets than any odd collectors car that is imported. Mechanics who work with older vehicles deal with asbestos often on a daily basis and take senseible precautions, ie mask, wetting dust etc, having owned a few classic cars over the years I have never seen this. Definite overkill,

      • Nice like this guy already, have subscribed. He mentioned something about being out in Wonga Park direction. I’ve started looking out that way, St Andrews, Hurstbridge, Eltham etc.. Nice park of the country. Prices are still silly but not Sydney inner west bat shit insane.

  21. Original John


    Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.

    Xi Jinping instructed China’s state-owned enterprises to lower their debt levels at the weekend but stopped short of announcing the creation of a new financial super-regulator to rein in mounting risks in the sector, as some had expected.

    Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.

    Speculation about such a move in recent months has highlighted behind-the-scenes power struggles between the agencies, with the PBoC expected to come out on top.

    The State Council, headed by Premier Li Keqianq, will instead create a Financial Stability and Development Committee to coordinate regulatory policy. The weekend conference did not confirm whether the new committee would be headed by a vice premier or Zhou Xiaochuan, the long-serving head of China’s central bank who is due to retire soon. 

    People familiar with the internal debate over regulatory reform said a decision to put the central bank in charge of the committee would further enhance its powers relative to the banking, securities and insurance regulators. ”

    Power politics at work and Xi is playing an adept game keeping neither side completely happy but ceding a little to both sides. Depending on how he plays this in the lead up to November will determine the trajectory for Chinese growth next year. His approach and support of various OBOR initiatives suggests that recent moves to encourage with the high tech and food security sectors will continue with renewed funding along with a focus on infrastructure at the borders. Either way, I don’t expect this to result in a major slowdown or debt crash, but it might see a little less demand for physical USD denominated resources as major SOE’s unwind positions.

    • Lulz…. and America has el’Trumpo… how surreal mate….

      Disheveled… hope your epicurean ass is packed tight, I would expect nothing less from you tho….

  22. It’s not the 20% unemployment rate in North QLD nor the over crowded schools, hospitals or roads that are at the forefront of people’s minds in Queensland. No, the QLD LNP’s number one issue is a ban on immigration from countries with sharia law. Yep, that’ll fix all them ills. Pauline Hanson would look sane and considered amongst this lot.

    “Liberal National party conference calls for ban on headscarves for children under 10”

    The main resolution had called for the federal government to ban immigration from countries with sharia law, with those in favour saying it was was “culturally incompatible “ with Australian values.


    • drsmithyMEMBER

      I’m going to guess most of them would make Jacqui Lambie look like a learned scholar when it came to sharia law.

    • Trofim Lysenko

      I love how the glorified real estate catalogue sinofax just has to put the sale prices. That’s some good conditioning.