Victoria is a rat on the turbocharged immigration treadmill

By Leith van Onselen

The release yesterday of the ABS population data for the 2016 Calendar year revealed some inconvenient truths for the Victorian economy.

This data showed that Victoria’s population surged by an Australian record 146,628 people in the 2016 calendar year, representing a population growth rate of 2.40%:

The State Government has been at pains to emphasis that the Victorian economy is the strongest in the nation, driving the nation’s jobs growth:

As well as the strongest growth in Final Demand out of all the states:

Scrape under the surface, however, and what is revealed is a ponzi economy that is failing to lift the living standards of the incumbent population.

The annual state accounts, current to June 2016, revealed that since the onset of the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) in 2008, per capita gross state product (GSP) in Victoria had risen by a pathetic 0.8%:

ScreenHunter_16222 Nov. 21 15.09

Worse, Victoria has experienced the lowest increase in per capita GSP in the nation since the GFC:

ScreenHunter_16221 Nov. 21 15.08

Victoria also has the lowest per capita gross disposable income on the mainland, only beating out lowly Tasmania:

ScreenHunter_16223 Nov. 21 15.12

The most recent data also shows that on an individual basis, Victorians are not enjoying increases in their material living standards.

State final demand per capita has barely risen since the GFC, despite robust aggregate growth:

And Victoria’s unemployment rate remains above the national average:

Whereas underemployment is only marginally better than the national average:

What has been happening in Victoria is that the economic pie has grown due to rampant population growth. But everyone’s slice of that pie has stayed the same (and shrunk once wider impacts are taken into account)!

Victoria is running a ponzi economy based on endless population growth (mostly immigration), which in turn has juiced its services industries (think cafes, universities and financial services) and the housing construction industry (see below chart).

ScreenHunter_16224 Nov. 21 15.22

Such a growth model is like a dog chasing its tail. There is activity but the per capita Victorian is no better off. Meanwhile, it accumulates debt as seen in Victoria’s trade performance. Exports recorded minimal growth in the 14 years to June 2016, whereas imports more than doubled. Accordingly, the state’s trade deficit had blown out to a whopping $47.5 billion in the year to June 2016 (see below charts).

ScreenHunter_16225 Nov. 21 16.42
ScreenHunter_16226 Nov. 21 16.42

Other indicators of living standards that are not captured in the aggregate economic statistics have unambiguously gotten worse. Economic and social infrastructure is becoming increasingly crush-loaded every year as rampant population growth continually outstrips capacity, leading to overcrowding on roads, public transport, and in schools. Housing affordability and rental availability has also deteriorated markedly on the back of the population deluge.

Victorians are running full tilt on a rat wheel economy that Australian politicians and their mates in a few chosen sectors are enriching themselves on. It is the perfect exemplar for what has gone wrong across the nation.

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Unconventional Economist
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  1. sydboy007MEMBER

    but but…you can have food from all over the world. Melbourne is diverse, multicultural, enriched by the rampant immigration pop growth.

    Only racist xenophobes would see any negatives to the Melbourne pop growing at the rate of a Toowoomba last year.

    Now suck that tummy in, you’re taking too much space on the tram.

    • You have great wisdom, sydboy007. Become my apprentice. Learn to use the Moron Side of the Force.

      • Nor am I – the beauty about that is that I can quote both Palpatine’s lines and Yoda’s lines and mix them at will.

    • Even though this is satire, depressingly I had nearly the same thing said to me yesterday by a work colleague but the difference being they were serious,

      • What’s even more depressing is this person is pretty much by law considered a high iq original thinker and model citizen when they are patently an abject moron.

        I never even see white people venture past the usual Chinese food, kebabs, the stuff we’ve had for decades. Only the non whites.

    • @sydnoy
      & Victoria is further enriched by the creativity & diversity of the lgbtif community/sarc. As I fall into obscurity as an apparently middle aged woman I’m considering transitioning to feel part of a community. It a lonely world for the single, childless, husband less, partner less, mortgage less 35+ female. I want me some of that ‘diversity’ feel good vibe cos I’m just not feeling it crammed in a tram choking on the breath of a fellow tram sardine. There is no bowl of dumplings, Pho or laksa available (cash only) on the streets of Melbourne or Sydney that make me feel warm and fuzzy about being force fed immigration & diversity. I did not vote for it. And I am sick to effing death hearing that the Australia have the politicians they voted for / deserve etc. Trite shite in anyone’s language.

  2. Great article and graphs mate.

    The unemployment graph is disgusting. It looks like it has been harder to get a job in Vic compared to other states since 2004!

    Yet Vic is the biggest destination for immigrants (most of whom are on low/illegal wages) and has been for many years. No wonder the average Victorian has the smallest disposable income compared to the average person in all the other states and territories on the mainland.

    And what was wrong with the unemployment rate in 2008? That is what we should be aiming for by charging foreigners $40/day for a train ticket.

    • This flattening of Vic GSP is at a time of a massive Federal Deficit. Are changes in transfer payments from the Federal Government accounted for in the GSP? Given the increased trade deficits it looks like the only thing Vic has going for it is a contribution to the federal deficit?

  3. Id like to know why a 457 is $420 while a family class spousal visa is ~ $7000. Stinks of business sector mates favours.

    • Yes, that is an outrageous shakedown.

      I was told about that recently and could not believe that we charge $7k for a spouse visa. A country like Japan with little enthusiasm for immigration charges a few hundred dollars.

      • PR in Canada cost me around $600. I think its more now but still relatively low. The fee used to be $2K before the Abbott government doubled it twice in 6 months in 2014 – To raise money for budget repair. Amazing how the business sector cant help with that.

      • I agree, absolutely stinking disparity! We should be getting off our bums and writing to local MP’s about this.

    • SupernovaMEMBER

      Believe it’s a simple accounting measure to contain Family Payments/Pensions: I suppose to prevent Somali etc women coming out and having 10 kids. Melbourne has a significant problem with Somali youth gangs.

      • Load of rubbish. Abbott should not have given Aussie passports to Indians on illegal wages.

        If someone cheats on exams to come here, gets a dumbed down “degree” and ends up working at 7-11 for $10/hour, thus paying no income tax at all, does he deserve an Aussie passport?

      • SupernovaMEMBER

        To Jacob: “does he deserve an Aussie passport”? Well doesn’t that depend on whether he passes Labor’s English test?(thats surely not rubbish).

      • @Supernova, this a visa not citizenship, and what you imply is that family’s are seen as a negative externality.

        If an Immigrant comes over and has 10 children as a citizen, isn’t that a right?

        It’s just obhorrent.

        Slaves they are.

  4. Victoria (Melbourne) will be the epicenter of the necessary and unavoidable adjustment. BIS ‘the central bank’s central bank’ is encouraging CB”s to unwind QE and ratchet up IR’s ! Mass reverse of the population influx will add to the woes markedly.

  5. I asked Malcolm for a comment on the Victoria issue only a couple of weeks ago. He assured me that Victoria is an ordinary mum and dad property millionaire with a taxable income of less than 80k trying to get ahead.

  6. The worlds most liveable city according to the numerous awards. Really? Great research. Well written. It’s all there. There are the facts to consider if you want to move to VIC.

  7. “Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!”
    Red Queen, Alice in Wonderland
    Seems our useless or criminal leaders in government, business, and the RBA know less about ponzi economics than the Red Queen. Interesting that as the population Ponzi in and around Melbourne has boomed, wages have fallen further and harder than anywhere else, could this be a clue to the boom in beggary in this city in recent years????. Closure of the car industry is going to hit Victoria particularly hard as it will affect a couple hundred companies directly and hundreds more indirectly. Might it turn out to be the loose rock that sets off the avalanche? Any recovery, if it ever comes, will be painfully slow and weak; in the 90s it was led by a big revival of manufacturing, especially in the automotive sector,both for the domestic and overseas market.

    • My suspicion is that the loose rock will be the downturn in apartment construction that looks closer with every passing day.

    • The begging issue is caused by all kinds of factors, but my theory is (yet again) immigration.
      300k per year to this country, 100k per year to Melbourne.

      A lot of the beggars appear to be men and they appear to be white and getting younger each month.
      I imagine these guys were employed in manufacturing previously, until we let all that nick off to China – they were probably on the poverty line, bad at managing money, living in mediocre conditions, suddenly without jobs, so they eventually got booted out.

      Other (and or similar) possibilities : I live very close to commission flats, have done for 15 years. The residents have always been “derro white guys” (for the most part) and Vietnamese.
      My particular area, the African population has … gone up I would say 10 fold in the past 5 years. My guess is that it’s literally a case of “who is the more needy, the Aussie who has been in housing commission for 5/10/15 years, or the new African immigrant – we get bonus lefty points for supporting them – get whitey out of here and make his family support him” – bam kicked out.
      (I’ve also seen someone confirm this does happen online at some point)

      So yeah population ponzi is indeed causing this, for sure.

      • A lot of the beggars appear to be men and they appear to be white and getting younger each month.
        I imagine these guys were employed in manufacturing previously,

        Someone who is young and white is unlikely to have been employed in manufacturing. Under 30 of any ethnicity is getting very unlikely to have been a manufacturing worker. The ones I see in the CBD look too young to have had time to got a job and then been retrenched.

      • The fastest growing group of homeless are actually women aged 55+ years, usually after relationship break-ups and job losses. I don’t know if they are the majority of beggars, but lack of affordable accommodation (due to govt sponsored housing bubble) certainly doesn’t help their situation.

      • kiwikarynMEMBER

        The exact same thing happened with my local commission housing estate. Used to be full of old white guys and young Australian mums with kids. In the space of a few years its totally changed. Now its all African and Middle Eastern occupants. The local laundrymat is full of women in those head to toe sheets with full face covers. The crime rate has skyrocketed.

  8. reusachtigeMEMBER

    Good on Victoria (Melbun) for wanting to be the biggest and the best. They must get frustrated at Sydney (NSW) for being the star and having that title so they could either give up and accept their place or they could fight to take the crown. Good for them for striving to not always be the bridesmaid! Admirably cute. I do love their laneways and sh1t.

  9. Outcomes seem logical to me:
    When the only viable growth industry is Ponzinomics, we grow the Ponzi schemes.
    How sick does the Vic economy look without this growth?
    Unfortunately I think Population growth without Economic growth is the symptom rather than the cause.
    Why aren’t these young men and women (immigrants) making the most of the new opportunities offered in this new land?
    When I was young we had wogs coming out of the wood-work, they were stealing jobs, left, right and center. There was no job so low that a wog wouldn’t do it, and what’s more do a good job, F-me it was hard work competing against those guys for jobs in the construction industry. These guys would lay concrete all day from dawn till dusk, in the building game the only thing worse than being out of work was working for an Italian concreting company. One thing was certain if you worked with the wogs then you earned your pay.
    At a macroeconomic level they introduced efficiency to a previously moribund construction industry, looked at another way they grew the pie, what has changed? I have trouble believing that it’s the attitude of the immigrants because those that I meet are still desperate to get ahead and not afraid of a little hard work.
    The disturbing conclusion is that we’re the ones that have changed, Australian’s have changed, we’ve become selfish, instead of sharing the bounty of our great land we’re keeping most of it for ourselves and as a result we’re focusing the process of wealth creation on the already wealthy.
    Personally I’d like to see nothing more than an Australia where my son sweets side by side with Chinese, African and ME immigrants to build a house for his family and for their families.

    • “The disturbing conclusion is that we’re the ones that have changed, Australian’s have changed, we’ve become selfish, instead of sharing the bounty of our great land we’re keeping most of it for ourselves and as a result we’re focusing the process of wealth creation on the already wealthy.”.

      So, blame the victim then?

      We are “sharing the bounty” faster than ever – hence the mass immigration.

      • Are we really sharing the bounty?
        The field that I see my son playing on is so tilted that ALL the profits end up in one corner, doesn’t seem to matter which game you play the same people win…maybe that’s the real problem.

      • kiwikarynMEMBER

        By depressing the wage growth of income earners whilst increasing asset prices for owners of capital, immigration fuels inequality.

    • Your personalised argument is based on a fallacy of composition. When an economy is built around firing up land prices, not industrial production like it was in the 50s and 60s, this is exactly what you get. The individuals merely respond to the situation. What are they doing? Building houses and speculating on them. How is this productive? The housing/property bubble, to be kept up must be pumped with ever greater amounts of capital, pushing up the cost of everything and eating an ever larger chunk of the economy. And this goes for the FIRE sector generally. The banks now make up nearly a third of the value of the ASX. What do they do? They lend for property speculation. This is asset inflation. Twenty years ago most lending was for business activity, now most lending is for housing speculation. This is bubble economics and squeezes all the productive enterprises. . The toll roads to serve this exploding population are just more corporate rent seeking. This “we’ve changed” is crap. People are merely responding to the way the economy has been restructured to serve FIRE interests, and so the beliefs of people of what is “good” have changed to correspond to that framework,

      • Our country is much larger than just Sydney/Melbourne, even if all the land in both these locations was completely unavailable we’d still have more land suitable for housing, in desirable locations, than we would know what to do with.
        Maybe the politics that denies us the opportunity to develop these locations is the true poison that our nation imbibes.

        • And yet 88% of migrants choose to settle in the big cities, mostly Sydney and Melbourne.

          Do you seriously expect Aussie born residents to move to regional areas to make way for new comers?

      • There’s heaps of relatively unpopulated land around the world. That is utterly meaningless. Why do people with high level engineering and scientific qualifications flock to Silicon Valley? It’s the economy that draws them. What draws them to Australia? It’s booming Ponzi economies of Sydney and Melbourne. And what do they want to do “to get ahead”? Buy land, and the closer to the epicentre of the real estate Ponzi, the better. if we really did effectively decentralise with massive works of infrastructure and services to the regions, we’d cause the Ponzi economy to crash. It’s the nature of this economy that draws people to the main cities, not the other way around as politicians disingenously suggest.

      • Even in a particular city, businesses are hardly ready to move out of the CBD. Take Brisbane for example, they build a whole government complex in Carseldine hoping employees would be ready to move. They are trying to promote Springfield CBD, they build the Brisbane Technology Park. All these are hardly successful, everybody still commutes to the CBD. If businesses cannot be enticed to even move out of a CBD, what makes you think they will move from Sydney to say Brisbane ? Cities grow into megacities as seen around the world. Australia might have plenty of land but people are going to flock to the main centres. Better develop fast commute from peripheral satellite cities to CBD rather than try to develop other regional centres. Wollongong to Sydney in 30 mins maybe ?

      • Ninad, in the US at least, that is not the case and far from it. Municipalities compete to attract businesses for the purpose of creating employment which will raise tax revenue for the town. Businesses are extremely decentralised. Even where you see a given business listed as being in “Atlanta” or “Boston” or wherever, that usually means well away from the CBD, often in a suburb 30kms out. Americans have this well figured out. Check out GE who recently moved from Fairfield CT to Boston, if you want a recent example. Granted GE went for an urban location in this case, but that isnt the norm.

        Australia needs to decide what it wants to be. Does it want to take advantage of its immense land bounty, or chase a FIRE-driven ponzi economy up its own arse into ever more crowded cities? It makes no sense at all.

        If you want an example of the damage over-centralisation can do check out the UK. There is no way in hell Brexit would have happened had successive govts not completely failed to diversify the economy away from London. The failure to do this created a completely unbalanced country, politic and economy and the results are pretty clear. Most European countries on the other hand have various locations of influence which creates a much better situation all round.

      • OK lets assume that we had zero immigration for the last decade.
        Would these deliberate policies, that have lead to this concentration of wealth, have been any different without immigration.
        Maybe we’d have less people competing for existing houses, that’s simple math, however the same money would have been available to fund the very same race to own more and more IP’s, all that changes is the Rate of new house construction and the rate of population growth. It is easily within our control to match these two variables however we CHOOSE not to do so.
        It would be equally within our control to choose to create sufficient or even excess housing, especially for an economy like Sydney that produces little else. Even with a static population we could choose to demolish “unsuitable” houses heck our safety focused population would probably applaud the process…I can just see the headlines:
        Slums demolished to make way for a new park
        Those slums are always the houses that house the bottom quartile, making them an easy target for the top quartile that enthusiastically support these slum reclamation projects.
        As I’ve said before Redfern was a great place where my mob lived for many generations… until it got all fixed up.
        My point is that the problem of housing this many immigrants was a solvable problem which we chose not to solve because of the illusion that it made us all wealthy, truth is most of us are poorer for the experiment and collectively we’re now up to our eye-balls in debt….it didn’t have to end this way.

      • BlackFella @ “the same money would have been available to fund the very same race to own more and more IP’s,”

        It’s the reverse – if there wasn’t such a demand for housing from immigrants (and foreign investors) then prices wouldn’t have soared to the level they are at now, so there wouldn’t be as much demand from locals buying lots of investment properties. If prices were not skyrocketing, then the fear of missing out wouldn’t be pushing those prices up.

        “Slums demolished to make way for a new park.” That’s not going to happen. The land is now too valuable, therefore there are much higher profits to be made by building expensive apartments.

        “My point is that the problem of housing this many immigrants was a solvable problem” – yeah, by not having so many immigrants! Successive governments who have persisted with a Big Australia are to blame.

      • If prices were not skyrocketing, then the fear of missing out wouldn’t be pushing those prices up.
        From my perspective prices haven’t skyrocketed, not in any comparative sense of price per sq/m Internationally significant cities. In reality today’s prices for Syd/Melb RE simply reflect the international desirability of this RE, so our housing stock has kept pace with other internationally desirable locations. Compare price/sqm for cities like Singapore, Shanghai, London….etc
        and you’ll see a clear trend. The capital valuations for RE in our top cities just reflects their global systemic importance….similarly the global valuation of our Aussie labour reflects it’s global systemic worth. Metrics like RE_Price to Income Ratios tell a story of an economy that’s failing to create global value from it’s labour force leading to reduced bargaining power for labour itself.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Would these deliberate policies, that have lead to this concentration of wealth, have been any different without immigration.

        The policies would have been the same, but I’d say the effect would have been less pronounced.

        Despite the turn Macrobusiness seems to be taking, immigration is not the only problem. To a point, I’d argue it’s not even the biggest problem, as it is some of those other problems that drive it.

        Compare price/sqm for cities like Singapore, Shanghai, London….etc

        But Sydney and Melbourne aren’t Singapore, Shanghai, London….etc

        They are only “internationally significant” because they are the largest cities in Australia. They don’t really have much else of “international significance” to offer (well, except maybe watching a sunset over the Harbour Bridge from the Opera Bar with an outrageously expensive drink in hand).

        Objectively, they are a long, long, LONG way away from basically everywhere else (and everywhere that matters) in the world and have little to offer in uniqueness, breadth or depth of cultural experience and employment opportunities.

        Do you really think people with the means to pick and choose whether to live in London, Paris, Geneva, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore, New York, San Francisco – and probably a dozen or two others – would choose Sydney or Melbourne, absent some sort of existing ties through friendship and/or family ?

        Shit, I’m an Aussie and there’s at least half a dozen “international cities” I’d live in before Sydney or Melbourne. I have numerous expat friends living in Europe and the US who “want” to “come home” (typically due to aging parents) but simply can’t justify the negative impact on their quality of life. Several have already made preparations to relocate their parents to them when the reach the point of not being able to care for themselves.

      • Comparing Sydney and Melbourne to other world champions of the same cancerous phenomena is called cherry picking, and merely shows you how bad we really are. Singapore is expensive too, but relative to income, substantially cheaper the Sydney, Melbourne, London, or Shanghai (which is in another universe altogether). The reason is that for the last seven or more years, the Singaporean government has put housing prices into a vicious steel vice and they actually forced the price down for the good of Singaporeans. Foreign buying is tightly regulated and restricted and fines run into six digits. And law breakers can be caned.

      • Despite the turn Macrobusiness seems to be taking, immigration is not the only problem. To a point, I’d argue it’s not even the biggest problem, as it is some of those other problems that drive it

        About right.
        It is an effect nearly as often as it is a cause.

      • @Drsmithy
        From memory Australia is ranked about 12th or 13th in the world by GDP.
        It stands to reason that our most important cities (Syd/Melb) should enjoy the same absurd prices as all other cities considered to be of global importance. Personally I know many Chinese that are interested in owning a balanced portfolio of globally significant real estate, so it comes as absolutely no surprise to me that they willingly pay far more than local Aussies. That’s just the way it is and the way it will likely stay.
        Think about it: If you wanted to invest in Australia what else would you buy?
        In reality our FIRE/Mining focused economy offers a foreign investor very limited opportunities for real diversified investments. If you were a Chinese multi millionaire with a significant manufacturing investment in China, would you wish to expand by investing in Australian Manufacturing? The answer is absolutely NO, because such an investment only concentrates risk…In the end just like everyone else you would invest in Syd/Melb RE….only difference is that you’d be willing to pay more for less.
        Please don’t misunderstand me: I don’t like this stupid situation, that so adversely effects our own kids, it’s unconscionable but it’s also understandable.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Yes, our GDP is high. But we all know how useful GDP is as a number, right ?

        We have bugger all local industry and really are little different from the various third world nations being strip-mined for their resource wealth.

        People aren’t coming here because it’s a world financial or technology, or the gateway to China, or a cultural, artistic or scientific smorgasboard.

        There’s no long-term “value”. So, no, I don’t think it stands to reason our two main cities would have the same attraction as other world cities that does have these genuinely globally significant attributes.

      • Who is it in Australia that profits from this situation?
        I find it very difficult to believe that recent immigrants profit from either over priced housing or the mega loans that support these absurd RE prices.
        Cui Bono?

      • Some elites are profiting from this situation, while others are being kept happy by delaying the inevitable bust. The immigrants are being scammed. They come here, pay hefty fees, settle for lower wages, are away from their families dreaming of a better life and in the end are going to be decimated as part of that oncoming bust.

      • Who’s benefiting from this colossal Ponzi? The rent seekers. Whether they be individual property speculators, the agencies, the big developers, , oligopolistic businesses like big supermarket chains, other rent seekers like toll road operators, . It also keeps pushing up total GDP and revenue, even while the standard and quality of life tanks – and it comes at a cost, to wages, cost of living, the undermining of productive businesses and national competitveness, exploding personal private debt and now public debt, infrastructure and services that are falling ever behind because its impossible to keep up with the Ponzi’s needs. But the Ponzi must be run harder and harder with more debt and people. That’s why it’s called a Ponzi ! It’s a scam but on a national scale, and the politicians are in on it. It’s a sell-out of the country and if prolonged can only lead to ever declining standards of living.

      • And did I forget to mention the Banks? They are the heart and soul of the ponzification of the economy. That’s why the banks are nearly a third of the value of the ASX. That is absurd.

      • kiwikarynMEMBER

        The immigrants win. They get free healthcare, social security, and a guaranteed pension for life. They can also bring over their parents and siblings, who are also guaranteed free healthcare, education, social security and a pension for life. They work hard, save their money, buy a dog box in Southbank for the extended family, send their kids to nice South Melbourne or Port Melbourne schools, and are set for life. Beats living in Delhi or Guangzhou.

      • Your free healthcare, social security benefits and pension is not going to last for long if the oncoming bust wipes out the government finances. Which just means everyone of us including the immigrants have to pay and the immigrants have already paid a lot just to get here. And it’s not easy to bring family, spouse and siblings as you say it is. Everywhere you need to bribe the government with moar money. And btw working hard and living in a dog box might be considered standard outcome for an immigrant but hardly anybody comes here to do that. And if that’s considered utopia, there is no reason why the locals can’t do the same.

      • Spot on again Kiwi. Don’t forget the use of infrastructure and schools that has been paid for by residents and their forebears for years.

    • The Patrician

      The migration intake is one of the few significant variables in the economy over which we (through our elected representatives) have almost complete control.
      It must be prudently managed.
      To dismiss the real and deleterious effects of excessive population growth with glib motherhood statements is negligent at best.

    • @Blackfella…Really?
      You had me at ‘global systemic importance’
      As my dad would say ‘take your hand off it, son’

    • As at last election in Senate 1.8% for ON and 0.3% for SAP. Both soundly trounced by Senator Hinch, at 6.5%. ON lucky to beat the Animal Justice Party at 1.7%.

  10. HadronCollision

    I look forward to visiting my ex home city in September as Petracca and The Hamburgler and #YOUREADY Bugg conspire to drive the Demons towards one of the greatest tilts at September glory EVER.

    This comment will no doubt be bookmarked by skeptics and be used against me after we lose in Week 1 against Trea$onou$ $cully and his merry band of GW$ comrade$ in banknote$

    Anyway. Melburn. About the only reason to visit is for a bit of AFL. OK. And Ladro. And Huw’s up and coming bakery in Brunswick. And to Everest Macedon. But I swear that’s all.

      • HadronCollision

        People are starting to hate the Demons, so it’s clear we’re now not to just receive consolation pats on the head when we lose by 100points (to the Lions at the MCG).

        Jordan Lewis is looking a canny offload by the Hawks.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        At a grand final do last year we had big Max Gawn sitting at our table for a while. Nice kid. When asked if he was going to go to the game he said no, the first one he sees live he wants to be part of.

        Hope he gets a shot.

    • macrofishMEMBER

      Half the reason i moved back to Melbourne last year is that i knew we where on the way up, watching Viney makes you name happen in my pants.

      • HadronCollision

        Viney. White line fever. What a beast.

        Are you following

        This week has seen some epic trolling by the Hamburglar and some #topshelfniggle. Man he lit a match under Damian Martyn.

        I have not looked forward to a match as I have this week (which means we’re doomed), as I have since 2000 and every single final.

        It’s been a long long time.

        Flag somewhere in 2018-2020 if we can keep $cullys mates from winning 4 in a row.

      • macrofishMEMBER

        Yea the guy who runs that blogg is a post on BigFooty, i post alot over on that.

        I ahve to rearrange thing as we never play on Fridays so have commitments but i will be setting on my reserve seat next to my dad (half the reason i moved to melb) to watch us play the swannies, being a former Sydneysider i have seen move Dees V Swans game then any other and i am still scared by missing Howes mark of the century due to reaching down for a beer, i didnt drink beer at the footy for years after that.

  11. Mining BoganMEMBER

    This must be the reason so many cars in Melbourne have only one brake light. So many people and therefore cars that bulb manufacturers can’t keep up. Got to share what we have between the weekday and weekend vehicles.

  12. Jumping jack flash

    Excellent graphs.
    So Victoria is lost to the hoards?

    It is a shame that nobody will see what they don’t want to see.