As China fortifies its little islands, PACOM moves F-22s to Darwin

China is fortifying its little islands:

BEIJING’s controversial artificial islands in the disputed South China Sea are now bristling with fortified gun towers, new satellite photographs reveal.

This is despite repeated assurances from Beijing that it would not militarise these outposts.

The Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative (AMTI) first highlighted mysterious hexagonal-shaped structures under construction at the Spratly Island’s Fiery Cross, Mischief and Subi Reefs in August.

A fresh batch of satellite photos taken in November show these are being completed as point-defence fortifications housing radar-guided anti-aircraft and antimissile guns.

This means all seven of China’s artificial islands in the South China Sea are now armed.

And the US is fortifying it’s little island, via Domainfax:

The US will begin flying its deadliest fighter plane, the F-22 Raptor, out of northern Australia next year, the most senior American commander in the Pacific has revealed as he warned  of a need to show strength to deter aggression in the region.

During a visit to Sydney on Wednesday, the commander of the US Pacific Command, Admiral Harry Harris, vowed the US would remain a major player in the region, saying its “enduring interests” would not “change on January 20th” – referring to the day of Donald Trump’s inauguration as President.

United States Pacific Command Admiral Harry Harris issues a firm warning to “an increasingly assertive China” amid territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Admiral Harris revealed that he had signed a 2017 agreement for Australia to host US military assets including the Raptors, which are feared and revered as the best fighter planes in the world, and will send a strong signal about US military presence in the region.

“I think that’s positive,” Admiral Harris told the Lowy Institute event.

The greater presence of US air power out of Australia follows on from the rotation of US marines as a way to bolster the alliance and the American footprint at the southern edge of Asia – akin to a stationary aircraft carrier.

Strategic analysts widely see northern Australia as vital territory because it is mostly out of range of China’s ballistic missiles and is at the fulcrum of the Pacific and Indian oceans.

Euan Graham, the Lowy Institute’s director of international security, described the presence of the F-22s as “pretty high-end coercive signalling to China”.

While the rotation of marines in Darwin got more attention, the stationing of planes was much more strategically significant, he said.

…Admiral Harris, who has been a hawkish voice during the Obama years – coining the famous phrase “Great Wall of Sand” to describe Beijing’s artificial islands in the South China Sea – said along with North Korea and Islamist terrorism, the US and Australia faced “significant challenges . . . posed by a revanchist Russia and an increasingly assertive China”.

Admiral Harris said there was “no room for subtlety” in convincing potential aggressors that their actions would be deterred and said that maintaining a “credible combat power” was vital, along with having the resolve to use it and signalling that resolve.

…”I’ll be blunt in saying that the global operating system that created the Indo-Asia-Pacific economic miracle is coming under pressure from revisionist powers,” he said in an apparent reference to China and Russia.

Admiral Harris said he would like other countries such as Australia to carry out freedom-of-navigation operations – designed to challenge China’s island-building in the South China Sea – but stressed it was up to them.

Based on our present foreign policy we will now sell the F-22s airport to China not at all mindful of this sort of thing.

Comments

  1. a need to show strength to deter aggression in the region. or more aptly ‘a need to show aggression to deter strength in the region.’

    Not liking this.

    • Course you don’t Iron Troll. But the problem is that in a polygamous marriage, eventually you have to pick a side. Maybe you should watch Big Love and chill.

      • I thought you loved the China man? He was buying up all the property and increasing the value of your own holdings?

    • ResearchtimeMEMBER

      No point speaking Australian when the Chinese speak Mandarin! The whole idea is that you speak a commonality – so there can not be any mistranslation.

      This point has not yet come, but soon will. China has made it abundantly clear, you choose the US or China. No choice really… we could all be slaughtered I suppose!!!!

    • Only a “Wu Mao” Chinese troll would state that F-22 Raptors on Australian territory, 1,000’s of Km’s from China is an “Act of aggression”

      • Harris is unnecessarily provocative seemingly enthusiastic to see a rise in tensions on matters South China Sea – China’s region, not the US’s. Australia needs maintain good relations with both powers and should neither condone nor encourage aggression.

        Australia would be better served promoting mature non inflammatory dialogue between all parties with interests in the region cognisant that the SSC is to China as the Caribbean is to the US – primarily a China sphere of influence.

        This is not the time for ‘all the way with LBJ’ gung ho neocon overtures to conflict.

      • Xo

        I think it is a fairly standard good cop bad cop ploy where the yank military carry on like rabid dogs whilst yank diplomats present as more reasoned and sensible. Everyone, including the Chinese, have a similar approach.

        But there lies the the risk that Donald Trump runs with the number of gung ho ex-military types he is attempting to bring into his inner circle. None of them would have risen to the top of the military by being anything other than like Harry Harris. Mr Trump appears to want to try a bad cop bad cop routine…

      • @MichaelB
        Only a “Wu Mao” Chinese troll would state that F-22 Raptors on Australian territory, 1,000’s of Km’s from China is an “Act of aggression”

        Not at all! The Yanks want a fight & have stated publically what they want a base near Darwin for. Not a State secret. The Yank presence in Darwin means I can not even consider it as a place to live (did for 9 weeks in 2012)

        Fuck the aggressive, bloodthirsty, murdering cocksuckers – – they should NOT be based on Australian soil to stir the Chinese or ANYONE else for that matter.
        At least the Chinese are occupying the China Sea – good on them for that.
        ( I do draw the line with them buying R/E here 🙂

    • +100 3d
      that isa very aggressive speach, an intimation of the coming Trump era.
      Australia is in an invidious , and dangerous position.
      We are being drawn into the game of super powers.
      Always remember that super powers rarely directly fight each other. They operate by proxy, i.e. Syria.
      It is highly likely that in a confrontation a proxy will be found, and in this case it could be us.
      We are the most vulnerable nation on earth when it comes to a nuclear attack. 6 nukes will take out 80% of our population.
      The prevailing winds will carry the fallout away to the east, leaving a continent intact for the taking.

    • New level of stupid.

      Yes – we must side with the aggressors and egnage in more neo-colonial imperialism.

      Try listing the countries in Asia that the United States and UK have no oppressed, invaded, brutalised, savaged and slaughtered their way through as they stole resources…..

      Go on – should be a very short list.

      .You have no idea about history or what you are saying.

      The United States are just wrapping up their murdering rampage through the middle east – where they have slaughtered millions and devastated hundreds of millions and destroyed entire nations.

      They now turn their gaze BACK towards Asia for another round of brutal war mongering and oppression – and you cheer it on like some blood thirsty tyrant hankering for more death.

      Well done. Props to you and your inhumanity.

      .

    • Didn’t read a dam thing into your comment. It speaks for itself.

      Cheer leading for war mongers – pure and simple.

      • TBH, your initial response speaks loudly for itself.

        My original comment was a bit tongue in cheek. But ultimately I’m strongly of the belief that Aus should ally itself with the US and certainly not with China. I’d definitely be in favour of avoiding US misadventures as far as possible. Not a strong supporter of those.

        But it seems like you enjoy a good rant so carry on!

      • hey Kurt, serious question, you seem to be pretty up the date with china’s assets, how stable are those islands they have made out of sand? could a large swell or a cyclone do significant damage

      • powys,

        Do you have anything constructive to say?

        If not, go back to watching “The Longest Day”, “Saving Private Ryan” and “South Pacific”

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Longest_Day_(film)
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saving_Private_Ryan
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pacific_(1958_film)

        Just because you have never seen a movie about how the Red Army destroyed the Germans – long before D-Day – does not mean it did not happen. To the best of my knowledge, Hollywood never produced a single movie about how the Japanese army was defeated in China and Korea by the Russians.

        Of course, that is no surprise. They do have dozens of movies about what some Germans did to the Jews.

    • Dave,

      And when is the last time the USA won a war?

      It is a shame they don’t teach any real history in Australian schools or media. Hollywood has hijacked your critical faculties.

      BTW, it was the Russians who defeated the Japanese main armies – in China:

      “The operation was carried out as a classic double pincer movement over an area the size of Western Europe.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Japanese_War_(1945)#Campaign

      Of course, the Americans dropped the nuclear bombs as a warning to Russia – the Japanese were defeated already – not to occupy Japan. The Japanese ruling class knew that they were finished if the Soviets occupied the place.

      The Wikipedia gives a very American slant on the real story.

      • Alfie, its obvious you have an axe to grind but this crap is just too extreme. How about you stick to the facts.

      • Hey now Alfred,

        The USA won WW2 fair and square with the help of our allies like the UK, Australia and the Soviet Union. And we won the peace afterwards as well.

        Vietnam and Korea were draws. The rest were all wins baby! (Well maybe not Iraq 2)

      • powys,

        Do you have anything constructive to say?

        If not, go back to watching “The Longest Day”, “Saving Private Ryan” and “South Pacific”

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Longest_Day_(film)
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saving_Private_Ryan
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pacific_(1958_film)

        Just because you have never seen a movie about how the Red Army destroyed the Germans – long before D-Day – does not mean it did not happen. To the best of my knowledge, Hollywood never produced a single movie about how the Japanese army was defeated in China and Korea by the Russians.

        Of course, that is no surprise. Hollywood has been supported by the CIA and other state organs for a very long while.

        https://www.amazon.com/CIA-Hollywood-Agency-Shapes-Television/dp/0292754361

      • The facts are that ww2 was a collective effort by the Allied nations, and would have been difficult to win without assistance from each other. However, if you are asking who did the most heavy lifting in terms of blood and treasure it was the Soviets. The battle at Stalingrad remains the largest single battle in the history of warfare. This is where the Nazi war effort was broken and the Wehrmacht defeated. The Eastern front is where the better German soldiers were sent. It is also where they lost something like 280 divisions versus only 80 on the entire Western Front. These are cold hard facts. The Nazis views the Russians as sub humans who would fold easily. They ended up getting their ass handed to them. This battle is what broke the back of the Nazi war machine. To suggest otherwise is a revision of history.

      • Hey Alfred, you’re joining your mate Kurt in jumping at shadows, pretty amusing TBH. Have a look at what I’ve posted on this thread and see if your post makes an iota of sense.

        And BTW I did not learn my history in an Aussie school.

      • MichaelB,

        Korea was not a “win”.

        The Americans tried to move the border north so that their Korea would border China. After massive losses by all sides – especially the civilians – the border went back where it started from. I guess you could call all the American stooges who have been running South Korea ever since a “victory”. Here is what the people think of the latest one handed down to them:

        “The Situation on the Korean Peninsula and US Tough Choice”

        http://journal-neo.org/2016/11/29/the-situation-on-the-korean-peninsula-and-us-tough-choice/

        As for Vietnam, believe it or not the Americans were kicked out of Vietnam and had to evacuate their embassy and many collaborators by helicopter. Again, it is a shame Australians know so little about the rest of the world. I guess you can thank Murdoch and Fairfax for that:

        “Chopper Evacuates U.S. Embassy in Saigon”

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj_ImnJrOA0

      • The Russians have been overlooked by Hollywood a great deal with respect to WW2, however to say that Russia beat Japan is too far. The reasoning of the Americans has been spelt out. They were indeed concerned about dividing Japan with Russia (because Russia wasnt far behind) but suppressing Japan was far from over without the nuke. The Russian navy was not in a position to have won the Pacific without the US:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Fleet_(Russia)#World_War_II

        The Japanese had significant naval and air power. If we agree that the German army was broken by the Russians, then surely we can agree that the Japanese navy & airforce was broken by the Americans.

        Any belief that Russia could defeat Germany and Japan (2 fronts!) by itself are as ridiculous as some of the American claims that they saved the world. If Russia and the US didnt need each other, they certainly would not have allied.

      • Fekname,

        Japan was finished as they had no petrol. You cannot fight a modern war without plenty of the stuff. Their kamikaze pilots were flying planes that used alcohol – a very inferior fuel – on their one-way trips. How much more desperate can you get?

        Hiroshima and Nagasaki were 100% political acts – to shake up the Russians. Let’s not forget that Churchill wanted to use atomic weapons against his Soviet ally.

        “Winston Churchill’s ‘bid to nuke Russia’ to win Cold War – uncovered in secret FBI files”

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2826980/Winston-Churchill-s-bid-nuke-Russia-win-Cold-War-uncovered-secret-FBI-files.html

      • C.M.Burns,

        As usual, denigrating the messenger merely shows that you have no better argument to present. The Daily Mail does refer to its source as being the FBI.

        Here is another link from a different publication:

        “FBI Files Reveals Winston Churchill’s Secret Bid to Nuke Russia to Win Cold War”

        https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/fbi-files-reveals-winston-churchills-secret-bid-nuke-russia-win-cold-war.html

        The fact that you won’t find any mention of this in the London Times or the Financial Times merely proves that these publications are censoring their journalists.

        As I am sure you know, there are 2 ways to lie:

        1- By presenting untruths.
        2- By hiding the truth

      • JC, weather defeated the Germans, not the Russians, as well as biting off more than they could chew.

      • “weather defeated the Germans, not the Russians”

        Dennis,

        Thanks for making me smile.

        I guess the cold weather – which is normal in Russia in Winter – was only affecting one side of the Eastern Front. Or is it that the Russians have antifreeze in their blood?

        Sorry mate. They were better soldiers and they were defending their own homes – not attacking a country two away from their own. They also beat the hell out of the Japanese in China and Korea – which is skipped over in the history books.

      • “JC, weather defeated the Germans, not the Russians, as well as biting off more than they could chew.”

        A huge misnomer that has been refuted many times by prominent historians. Though, you are proving a point here. I mean pretty soon the Western MSM is going to be blaming Putin for Global Warming.

        Just in the last week there has been a massive frenzy blaming Putin for:

        1. Hacking the DNC and costing the Dems the election and interfering in the US political process
        2. Some kind of slaughter in East Aleppo, reported by sources on the ground, that don’t actually exist on the ground
        3. Brexit by some tard UK politician
        4. Merkel and various German publications that actually get their marching orders from the US state dept. that Putin is interfering in the German election process and is going to “weaponise” refugees by making them rape Germans.

        Let me break it down for you again Denis. The Eastern Front was the biggest theatre of war in history. The Nazis lost. The Russians broke their back. They were able to do this with assistance from the Allied forces, like the British who sailed in supplies across perilous routes, but ultimately they are the ones who did the heavy lifting in blood and treasure. It is a historical fact. The numbers are there. 280 divisions all didn’t perish from frost bite.

      • The Russians took back Manchuria, Korea and Mongolia with an invasion of 1.5 million men. Triple what the Allies were planning to invade Japan with.

        And this had no effect on the Japanese decision to surrender?

        The only reason Japan didn’t surrender earlier was because the Allies were refusing to let the Emperor keep his position, they eventually relented.

    • @Dave
      “Good, we need to be coming down squarely on the US side. Like the cut of Harry Harris jib.”

      Which asylum did they let you out from ?

  2. The old WW2 joke about finding German tanks: If you want to find the Panzers you should follow the fuel trucks.
    I wonder if F22’s deployed from Darwin will have a similar problem. F22’s by all accounts have excellent stealth properties however the KC-10 refuelers are anything but stealth aircraft, if mid-air refueling is required than maybe adversaries will just follow the Fuel trucks.

    • Better hope there’s none of them unseen F-22’s between you and the tanker’s ehh?

      It is highly likely that an air wing now will have the tankers with one or two F-22’s loitering at all times, as well as a complimentary EA.

      Forget the piece of junk J-20 cardboard cut out fakes. No pilot in the world wants to be the ‘enemy’ in the sky when a Raptor is about.

      This thing is so deadly, it’s viewed like submarines. The threat of the unknown is enough to curb activity.

      • This thing is so deadly, it’s viewed like submarines. The threat of the unknown is enough to curb activity.

        Give it a rest with the USA USA USA – the F-22 is 100% not stealth to the Chinese. They can detect it. It blows my mind that you think the Chinese are Iraq under Saddam.

        The Chinese are not only very much on par with the US in tech today, in many areas they are MILES and MILES ahead – and one of those is anti-stealth.

        And while we are at it the Chinese have also announced a slue of breakthroughs in stealth and now claim the mantle in stealth materials.

        The F-22’s wouldn’t stand a chance – would be detected and overwhelmed before they could get a shot off.

        China has absolutely no interest in manned fighting missions – they have fleets of anti-stealth drone technology which can completely out gun. out run, out manoeuvre the US manned planes.

        The South China sea installations are not a pile of coconuts and grass huts – they are ANTI-STEALTH installations.

        The F-22’s are not going to get past their missile defence, nor their radar, nor their drone fleets. Whats more China has the most capable ANTI-CARRIER mobile missile fleet in the world.

        http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/news/a19602/china-installing-anti-stealth-radar-in-south-china-sea/

        https://thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/chinas-divine-eagle-anti-stealth-uav/

      • “Give it a rest with the USA USA USA – the F-22 is 100% not stealth to the Chinese.”

        LULZ, yes it is!

        Indigenous China tech is leaking all over the place, we know Chinese radar tech. It can barely pick up the “4.5 gen modified F/A18F’s”, it has NO IDEA when it comes to f-22’s.

        The reason is for exactly the same reasons Japan and SK are not getting US tech, the Japs and the SK’s can’t help leak tech to China, but it’s a two way street. Whatever paltry invention the Chinese put on the ground without stealing from the west is broken, feeble and of poor quality.

        “They can detect it”

        LULZ!! No they can’t

        “It blows my mind that you think the Chinese are Iraq under Saddam.

        The Chinese are not only very much on par with the US in tech today, in many areas they are MILES and MILES ahead – and one of those is anti-stealth.”

        LULZ…. no they’re not. In fact the J-20, which can be detected by OTH radar from Taiwan shows they are making grave mistakes with stealth and don’t understand it.

        “And while we are at it the Chinese have also announced a slue of breakthroughs in stealth and now claim the mantle in stealth materials.”

        All they’ve ever had is second hand analysis from the F-117 shot down in Serbia.

        They’ve added to it, the dullened minds of Chinese creativity which has seen them invent NOTHING since the wheelbarrow, and put on display cheap, nasty knock off’s. In other words, the hallmark of Chinese industry.

        “The F-22’s wouldn’t stand a chance – would be detected and overwhelmed before they could get a shot off.”

        LULZ !!

        The F-22 would annihilate anything that an EA-F18G would detect, as in X to nil kill ratio.

        “China has absolutely no interest in manned fighting missions – they have fleets of anti-stealth drone technology which can completely out gun. out run, out manoeuvre the US manned planes.”

        LULZ!! .. sure they do.

        “The South China sea installations are not a pile of coconuts and grass huts – they are ANTI-STEALTH installations.”

        They’re cheap, nasty knock off’s to intimidate 3rd world SE nations to flash Chinese testicles in tropical waters. They’re as exposed as Christmas island is to us.

        “The F-22’s are not going to get past their missile defence, nor their radar, nor their drone fleets.”

        F-22’s are going in second, after XB-47’s have wiped out Chinese missile defence, radar and drone fleets.

        “Whats more China has the most capable ANTI-CARRIER mobile missile fleet in the world. ”

        LULZ !!… no they don’t.

      • The Chinese aren’t anywhere near the US in terms of military tech. At least 10 to 20 years behind. The US MIC being the fat bloated pig is it currently is certainly helps. They have some stand off weapons that would make life difficult, but they are still far behind in technology and tactics. Russia has the worlds second most powerful military behind the US, not China, and they also find it difficult to project anywhere far from home. Make no mistake, what they have done in Syria is even more amazing given it is essentially a small task force that is isolated and vulnerable. They actually have high quality weapons across an array of platforms. Aircraft, radar, e warfare, tanks, air defense, submarines, anti-tank, and importantly missiles. This is why the Chinese want the good Russian stuff. They however, do not export any system they can’t beat. Most of the time they also use an export variant that isn’t to the same specs and quality as the ones purchased by the military.

        “All they’ve ever had is second hand analysis from the F-117 shot down in Serbia.”

        This incident suggest that good old fashioned radar tech is better than new radars. Something about long long wave radar and such being able to detect stealth better than the new radar tech.

      • Rusty Penny,

        This “stealth” business is largely a marketing job. The F-22 may have a tiny radar signature when it is coming straight at you, but that is not the way planes always fly. Defensive radars operate in networks and the plane is bound to be in profile for some of them. Also, longer-wave radars (from WW2) can “see” these so-called stealth planes with no problem.

        The other matter is that F-22’s have a pretty big infrared signature.

        Frankly, having humans in planes is just so out-of-date. Rockets are so much faster and cheaper.

        Right now, in Syria, the Russians have made much of the area inaccessible to cruise-missiles and F-22’s – go figure!

      • @Godel – Nobody knows. That is the whole thing about war. Sometimes you go in and find out that your assumptions were completely wrong. Or that there is a simple way of dealing with the technological difference.

        We don’t know if China can shoot down an F22, because America doesnt give them the opportunity. We dont know how well China’s drones perform. This is one ‘advantage’ that America’s constant little wars have- they demonstrate quite clearly and plainly what America’s generic technology can do. Nobody is wondering whether a predator drone can really hit its target. We don’t even know whether or not we really know all the technologies available to the Americans. They could have a few prototypes sitting in a shed somewhere that aren’t worth general production unless their specific counterpart technology is detected in use by a foreign power.

        I agree that the future is in cheap mass produced drones and missiles, but I doubt we’re ready to use them in a total war scenario. Against Iraq or something sure. But when you’re against an opponent who can and will completely fuck your satellite network, scramble your radio waves and design anti-AI camouflage, then maybe an AI pilot wont be so good. For a drone to recognise there is an obstacle on the runway and respond to it could be hundreds of hours of coding and quality assurance testing. For a human it can be a 2 second observation.

      • “This “stealth” business is largely a marketing job. The F-22 may have a tiny radar signature when it is coming straight at you, but that is not the way planes always fly”

        Well the F-22 has it in 3 directions, and that means a lot when you’re a pilot BVR and trying to lock on to target, well before the F-22 pilot does with you. Throw in the EA-18G and one side is locking on first.. with what you’ve got left.. after XB-47’s have laid waste…

        Of course you can pre-empt this by shooting down F-22’s on transit from Darwin to Singapore……

        Great strategy as the first shots on a hot war….

        I understand the modern war scenario, someone will fire first and it will involve a lot of drones. The F-22 is about who owns the skies after that, particularly if the yanks are first strike.

        “Also, longer-wave radars (from WW2) can “see” these so-called stealth planes with no problem.”

        They are also huge, cannot be attached to weapon systems and cannot network into weapon system to guide them. .. well maybe.. that’s the mystique about the s400.

        However an AWAC in tow will stuff that up…. so everyone goes crazy shooting down UAV AWAC’s while an unseen Raptor knocks out the long wave radar facilities that are heating up their target map.

        I think they’ll take hits to their UAV AWAC’s to blow away defence systems

        Infra red, well come on… who’s going to survive long enough to get close enough to that signal.

      • The F-22’s have radar in reverse you know. They can spot an enemy approaching.

        As I said, no pilot in the world is going to run up to an F-22 and say “Let’s start a fight”, even in a cardboard cutout J-20.

        Jettison the fuel tanks, become invisible, blow the enemy out of the sky without a scracth, and send a distress signal to Indonesia “we’re landing, short on fuel!”.

        The rest of the world is on a war footing because they thought it was a good idea to engage F-22’s because they spotted them OTH, and Trump has his finger on the red button promising to send China #BackToTheStoneAgeAgain.

        Not going to happen.

    • The way I understand it, stealth aircraft are visible on radar, but its really hard to get a solid ‘lock’. So you know where they are (in a blurry fashion), you just can’t hit them.

      • Correct.

        That’s what RAAF pilots who have trained say.

        It’s not about seeing (or not seeing) a hoard of blips of your radar.

        It’s about your tiny short wave radar, that planes and missile carry not being able to get a signal.

        RAAF pilots have said as much. “They’re in front of me, I’m pointing my plane at the target, but my missiles don’t know what to lock onto to. It is so frustrating.”

  3. what I don’t get is that china will be upset by this, why, straya is a US ally, why are they so arrogant as to think straya should do anything different

  4. All part of Beazley’s gig, as he is now a non-executive director of Lockheed Martin … good to see a lucrative gig after the struggle of being parachuted in the US ambassadors role….

    We’re viewed as politically reliable … for the time being…..

    All F-35’s between GMT +6 and GMT +11 are going to be serviced in Australia. All nations.

    SK, JP, SG, will all have to fly them here to be serviced by highly technically trained and qualified Australians….. unless they’re under 457 pressure.

    But there will be a principle to follow from Lockheed-Martin world itself.

    Make Australian wages great again

    #LetsAimFor60%WageShare

    • Agree with most of your comments here but Kurt does have one very valid point on the sheer numbers of flipping drones the Chinese Airforce is assembling. Spend some time in the government offices in China and you will see this clever little video (not sure if it is real or CGI) showing a fleet of high speed drones flying in computer controlled formation looking for all intensive purposes like a passenger jet to radar before breaking formation and swarming a target. If it is real, this would in effect nullify the defences around a refuelling tanker.

    • Yes, quite the subtle difference there. Also they seem to have a more sanguine view of our overpriced property.

    • Not unless we do a Sweden and build our own SAAB.

      The F-22 isn’t going to anyone because it is the US’s ace in the sleeve.

      The Jap’s and SK would love it for example, but they leak too much tech to China.

      I think the US would like to give it to us, but if they do, they’d have to cede to the demand of other nations who can’t be trusted to maintain secrecy of the tech.

      Now we are going to be a global service centre for the F-35’s, it may be prudent to assume we would get an insight to the F-22, but we’ll never take delivery of it. The only way we’re going to put F-22 tech in the sky is if we build it.

      • A 5th gen-stealth-fighter-led-recovery!

        Also I heard little birds whispering a certain poodle is up for defence!

        The fixer will fix it!

        Straya fuck yeah.

      • Poodle is working hard.

        Both him and Beazley were in Perth last week talking about a lot of investment coming into Australia re: defence, and it’s a global initiative.

        Turning UAV’s from reconnaissance to combat happened due to Australian technology, and one of the the western world’s major focal points is around Maralinga.

        That’s how you find out the Polish are amongst the best at UAV tech… you hear it for the first time and you go “The Poles? .. really ?”. But they did crack Enigma as well…

        Anyway, back to the poodle, $200 billion is on the line, and it looks to be commencing 2020. How do tiny players get 1-2% of this (a mere 2-4 billion… but someone has to be doing it for the country !!).

        The fixer fixes it.

      • It has good tech, and in some aspects is superior to the F-22, particularly electronic warfare.

        But it’s a mash of a plane and thus has no real clear purpose.

        The F-22’s job is to be in the sky and be top dog, by knocking down other planes. it does that very well, the best air superiority fighter to date.

        It’s a sink hole of cash, well because it can. It’s the most expensive arms project since the Manhattan project and it is leaking, on purpose, for the purposes of finding the most esoteric technology.

        To use the absurd, but to prove a point, it has R&D like “underwater ninjitsu for Dolphins” tech research, because it’s the only way to sign off on the bill outside of war.

        MilTech for the next 30-50 years is being discovered in this project

      • Rusty Penny,

        The F-22 is outlandishly expensive – but cheaper than the F-35 lemon. It is so expensive that it was never used for its “ground attack” role until a short while back. Anyway, they stopped building them some years ago.

        http://aviationweek.com/defense/f-22-s-takes-first-shot-against-ground-not-air-target

        Of course, this article is nonsense. The USA never attacks willingly ISIS – its asset. That is why the Russians – although they came in years later – are rolling up ISIS.

  5. TailorTrashMEMBER

    This will not make Beijing happy at all expect , the soft power to get a little harder edge in months ahead ……….

  6. adelaide_economist

    A worrying development but ridiculous that the Chinese construe any response to their aggression as being aggressive. It’s like the North Korean thing where they open fire on a ship or launch a missile near another country and then complain about inappropriate actions.

    And as for Chinese technology. Look, I’m sure they are ‘getting there’ but I can’t handle reading all the ‘China has amazing technology’ themed stuff on here. If they did, they wouldn’t be busy buying up German companies like Kuka and committing massive industrial espionage. There are plenty of areas where China is deficient in key technologies (for now, at least) and I often wonder what the motivation is for saying otherwise.

  7. Just posturing and all, nothing new here. The war between the US and China(and other nations) is already being fought and its an economical war and it’s about to get heated if Trump is Inaugurated. There certainly might be a clash in the south China sea but i think both parties are trying to avoid that.

    • proofreadersMEMBER

      Straya blows with the wind – US or Chinese – every second of every minute of every day?

      • TailorTrashMEMBER

        Agree , our Prime minister has no compass or centre of gravity so we bob around without direction ……..hopefuly leadership will emerge soon.

    • Chris,

      Fairly sure it’s for mutual benefit. For those little things like protecting The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

    • @CB -The 51st State must do what Washington says I guess.

      Unfortunately for us & especially for those that live in or near Darwin.

    • That’s probably why the announcement was made by a US Admiral and not an Australian politician, not even a joint announcement.

  8. proofreadersMEMBER

    “Based on our present foreign policy we will now sell the F-22s airport to China.”

    In the meantime, perhaps Andrew Robb can “keep a weather eye open”?