If you’re happy with it, Canberra will sell Australia to China

From The Greens via Domainfax:

The Greens have ramped up their rhetoric against the alliance with the United States in the wake of Donald Trump’s victory, suggesting the strategic arrangement has become a “security threat to Australia”.

Party leader Richard Di Natale says that President-elect Trump’s high-profile views on domestic and international affairs represent “an ally’s worst nightmare” and highlight a need for Australia to redefine the relationship with the US and operate more independently.

The Greens leader has left nothing to the imagination in his opinion of Donald Trump and has some advice for the PM when it comes to the Australia-US alliance.

“In light of the threats presented by Trump’s election, the Greens are intensifying our calls to undertake a fundamental reassessment of the alliance. This is something we have been talking about for a long time,” Senator Di Natale said in a speech to the Australian Institute of International Affairs national conference.

The Greens leader said Mr Trump’s views on climate change, refugees, defence spending, nuclear proliferation, trade and authoritarian governments make his country a “dangerous ally”.

“We need to recognise that the alliance has served us well; it’s served us poorly at times, but there are grave concerns now that the alliance with the US represents a security threat to Australia,” he said in response to a question about the secretive joint military facility at Pine Gap.

OK then, what will it mean. This, from Peter Hartcher:

…The Obama administration, after years painstakingly negotiating the deal, yielded to the reality that the American people have come to regard free trade as their enemy.

Obama reluctantly gave up his effort to have the TPP ratified by the US Congress in his final days in power.

Instead, China took over the task of writing the rules, just as Obama had foreseen.

“Openness is vital for the prosperity of the Asia-Pacific,” China’s President Xi Jinping declared at the annual summit of the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation group, meeting in Lima.

“China will not shut the door to the outside world but will open it even wider.”

…”This is playing out in real time,” said the US Trade Representative Mike Froman, explaining the realpolitik to reporters outside the APEC summit.

“We see people around the table here that are now saying that if the TPP doesn’t move forward they are going to have to put their eggs in an RCEP basket,” referring to the China-sponsored Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership.

The TPP does not include China. RCEP does not include the US.

Australia, intelligently maximising its options, is a member of both. RCEP also includes the 10 countries of Asean plus India, Japan, South Korea, NZ and China.

…America is relinquishing leadership. But what sort of road rules will China write? A rules-based system for the good of all, or a selfishly chaotic zone of clashing interests?

There is no walking away from ANZUS without walking straight into the arms of a waiting China. Conversely, there is no walking towards China without giving up on ANZUS in all but name.

So, if you’re concerned about climate change, refugees, defense spending, nuclear proliferation, trade and authoritarian governments then you had better think long and hard about whether or not you think that China’s rising dictator, Xi Jinping, is on your team.

David Llewellyn-Smith
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Comments

  1. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right…
    When you offshore policy, intelligence and manufacturing, eventually you find yourself in an untenable situation.

      • Not this time Mig. This baby was delivered by Howie and suckled equally by both sides. It is the baby of modern management, conceived in the womb of stock valuations, endowed with the inbred DNA of MBA CEOs and revolving doors, culminating in the rise of the deplorables. And I am not talking about the voters, naive as they are. I am referring to the mediocre conmen and women who have tapped into this vein and will bring the same level of misery as the interwar period. But that is what happens when you govern to retain your seat. En fin.

    • Absolutely 100% correct. This decision has been made long ago and has been reinforced decade after decade by EVERY damned government in the last 60 years!
      Round up all the survivors and try them for treachery and betrayal. There is only one penalty.

    • “”This baby was delivered by Howie”””

      I presume you are talking John Howard. If so this is plainly and demonstrably incorrect. This thing was given birth to long before Howard/Costello. They were promoters and accelerators of the process but the fault goes way back through time before them. Indeed the whole schmozzle was given a resuscitating kiss of life and a bulk feed by Hawke and Keating.

      There are a lot of university professors who should be suspended from the same tree

  2. Yes I think we are between a rock and a hard place.
    We are seeing the change from one empire to another.
    And I think the new empire wont be much different to the old empire, if you look at history.

  3. Di natale has bought a Chinese made shovel to dig his political grave with ha ha hope it doesn’t snap in half before he’s finished

  4. Why are we selling our country for printed pieces of paper yuan or USD? I’d like to shut the gates, default on odious debt, have the crash we had to have and start again with non-globalist, competent Australians running the country.

    • there is a long answer and a short answer.

      before the why, sometimes the what and how need to be understood unfortunately.

      status quo = function of {group think + brainwashing from primary school + controlled narratives + everyone is an expert + global structural monetary and energy issues + resource curse + lack of independence + no ICAC + flawed electoral system + poor policy mistakes in the past + external influence + instructions from outside}

  5. We need to balance our trade and foreign policy by developing closer ties with wealthy north east Asian nations in partnership with the US, so that we are not so dependent on shipping dirt and selling education to one customer.

  6. This is your cry baby, virtue signalling, the real world doesn’t exist only our thought bubbles and Trump is bad m”kay left that YOU are so fond of HnH, and which so many of us get regularly berated as right wing nut jobs for pointing it out.

    Golf clap….

  7. So, if you’re concerned about climate change, refugees, defense spending, nuclear proliferation, trade and authoritarian governments then you had better think long and hard about whether or not you think that China’s rising dictator, Xi Jinping, is on your team.

    Well, to be fair. out of the major global powers right now, China is the world leader in reducing nuclear weapons and proliferation of weapons (United States has ramped up theirs beyond belief including offensive missile installations throughout eastern europe.

    China is leading the world on climate change – by many many factors.

    China has lifted ten times more people out of poverty than any other nation, literally all other nations combined.

    The US is the one forcing a ramp up in defence spending – not China.

    China has done more for trade and open markets globally than any other country in living memory. While Australia, and many other nations owe their entire financial security to trade with China.

    Xi Jingping is not a dictator, not sure if you understand how Chinas political system works. And as for “authoritarian governments” lets ask the people of Libya, Yemen, Sudan, Palestine, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Panama, Nicaragua, Saudi Arabia and the countless millions of people who have been slaughtered by the United States and her proxy puppet dictators.

    Again – the open and flagrant racism reveals itself.

    The simple fact of the matter is that raging against unfettered population growth is not racism, it is entirely reasonable and logical. The comments regarding China vis-a-vis the United States are without question, and simply can not be seen in any other way, other than racism.

      • Do you have something to counter this with ?

        Has Australia not benefited primarily from China over the United States in terms of trade ? As with countries throughout Asia, Europe and Africa ? Seriously ?

        Has the United States not implemented vast missile batteries throughout Europe calling for direct warnings from China and Russia of imminent nuclear war due to the United States actions ?

        Has China not led the entire planet on sustainable energy and green technology ?

        Has the United States not invaded overtly and covertly countless foreign nations and slaughtered millions, and summarily executed THOUSANDS of foreign nations via drone strikes with no courts, no evidence, no recourse ?

        Seriously – you say I see fluffly pink bunnies how about you actually counter the facts rather than stupid, moronic responses which have no weight because you simply can not bear to consider that your cognitive bias and reality defying force field has misled you.

        It really is extraordinary.

        Its like listening to Weimar Germans rage against the unfairness of the allies in their response to Poland. Its beyond absurdity.

        .

        Yes – the United States ARE THE F-ING bad guys.

      • >Has Australia not benefited primarily from China over the United States in terms of trade ? As with countries throughout Asia, Europe and Africa ? Seriously ?

        If any benefit was made, it was with a weak China, with low bargaining power. Now, China can flex its muscles when negotiating with Australia, as it continues to do. That said, maybe Australia could work something favourable by leveraging its plentiful opium supplies?

        >Has the United States not implemented vast missile batteries throughout Europe calling for direct warnings from China and Russia of imminent nuclear war due to the United States actions ?

        This is an argument against neoliberal establishment FP, not the US as it stands today. I like how you leave out China’s Foreign Policy. Which of course is “treat everyone really nicely”, isn’t it? From the conversations I’ve had with Chinese, it’s more like “everyone else had their turn F*#king the world, now it’s our shot and we deserve to be able to!

        >Has China not led the entire planet on sustainable energy and green technology ?

        How are today’s PMI readings, bucko? I laughed so hard I nearly choked on my coffee. At least I didn’t choke on smog. China ain’t nothing special in those regards.

        >Has the United States not invaded overtly and covertly countless foreign nations and slaughtered millions, and summarily executed THOUSANDS of foreign nations via drone strikes with no courts, no evidence, no recourse ?

        Again, argument against neoliberal/neocon establishment (Which by the way, we all know in your perverted head is likely code for “the jews”, you dirty antisemite! See? Two can play the race-card game).
        Rhetoric aside, even in the US establishment, they don’t do it to their own people. I recall a place south of Mongolia that has done all that internally – secret courts, killings, no recourse…

    • Is China a race or a nation?

      As for not a dictator, tell me, who did Xi take over from, and who was there before?

      Its like the “its racist to say Chinese money is propping propping up the real estate bubble just because it is” – it worked with the brain dead lefties, of whom there are fewer everyday. So…. Good luck with that….

    • You may have some good points about American imperialism, so how about putting them forward without waving the racism flag which discredits everything else you have to say.

    • Frankly mostly I agree with Terence. I’ll also say I feel a damned sight safer with Trump as President vs the warmongerer (note i am bowing to stupid political correctness – just because I can’t be bothered copping stupid BS this morning). I’d be confident that Trump will adapt to the reality that China exists and is a significant power and will become an even more significant power. Or is it best just to ignore the fact? Why can’t we try living in a world that incorporates China instead of trying to start another bloody war?
      Don’t get me wrong – I don’t think the Greens have any idea of the reality.

    • Terence, gather 50 friends and stand in Tiananmen Square with anti-Xi placards while chanting anti-Communist party slogans. Do the same near the White House against Obama and the Democrats.
      See which approach is more harmful to your health.
      Then get back to me and I will think longer about the content your offering today.

  8. We should be in both. Australia brings little to the TPP (other than our coal and sugar) because the US is an extremely judicially independent country with strong rule of law. On the other hand, Australia brings a vast wealth of experience in trade rules and disputes to the Chinese, who are going to need our help to develop a fair system. If that system is not fair, it will eventually collapse. We are vital to RCEP, not because it favours China to the US, but because it allows us to help build a better future for the Asia-Pacific.

  9. Hartcher is an idiot. I hope that the entitled idiotarians get their wish and anzus is cactus. AuRules will be clutching my shoes as the last helicopter leaves the embassy in Canberra!

  10. Di Natale and his Greens mates are a bunch of smug, unaware, ignorant knob-ends.

    They present a classic case of Dunning-Krueger effect, and no sensible person should pay any attention to their blatherings.

    • perhaps they will decide to vote to change the electoral system again to prevent the same.

      the unfortunate aspect of the greens is that the way they strategise they may end up with Pauline Hanson someone owning environmentalism at some point – they stick to positions and not outcomes

      a mature political entity will look to work with whoever is in power in the major powers, both Trump/Xi administrations and look for ways to develop prosperity outcomes with diplomatic sensitivity. Before one sides with anybody, one should focus on cleaning up our own backyard – ie ICAC, financial genocide of younger generations, energy and water policy, biodiversity.

      Picking a side – ie Xi, Trump is high school politics – we should be picking policy positions and seeking to influence both sides
      This is the very definition of soft power diplomacy.

  11. I think the Greens have seriously misjudged this one. Whilst many people are disappointed at Trump’s win and his likely agenda, I think most people would recognize that hes simply reflecting a popular agenda that’s always been there – isolationist and reactionary. He himself may have projected some ugly opinions, but those exist in all societies and his opinions of themselves are not going to set policy directions. In the same way that Obama’s more enlightened views did not have a whole lot of impact.

    This may not reflect the US that we all want to see, but its not likely to be a fundamental change either. And in all cases it would be wise to ally ourselves as closely as possible to the US, until and unless Trump does something that we can’t tolerate. Then we can make a choice at that stage. Rather than acting like a stroppy teenager as these people are currently doing.

    And the idea of closer alignment to a Totalitarian state to whom we’re in many ways beholden to already? Not a great plan.

    • “Obama’s more enlightened views” like what? Bail out bankers at all costs and blow up the moderates in MENA

      • I dont think many would argue with a description of Obama as more tolerant and enlightened than Trump… which doesnt mean he can enact all the policies he wants to reflect that. Which is the point I’m making.

        Another example. W Bush was a dunderheaded evangelical. But doesnt mean he got to run things according to the Bible.

      • AND I dont think theres a POTUS past, present or future who would not have bailed out Wall St to the fullest extent. Even those who may have disagreed with this as a point of principle would recognise the alternative was likely a rerun of the 30s. If there’s a better alternative, you would choose to take it. Whether the current course of action turned out to be worse will only be known a couple decades from now.

  12. If the powers at be were smart …. and Di Natale is quite clearly not …. more a reactionary dill who reminds me of the human headline Derryn Hinch …. they can keep both super powers close.

    Please educate me …. is it absolutely necessary that this is a binary argument of siding with one or the other? Surely not.

    They both need us as much as we need them. So we should play accordingly. Thoughts?

  13. TailorTrashMEMBER

    ……might be time to get Sir Les Patterson on the job ………..he has a level of diplomatic skill lacking in some of our current politicians ……

  14. Bit early for all this soul searching about China buying Australia, I suspect when all this hyper liquidity dries up, we’ll all get to see how that sweat little Ho named Straya makes the Vig. I’d wager she’ll be selling more than just her sunburn ass.

  15. The Greens are far too influenced by the SJW brigade, which is why they are forced to take such a hard-line against Trump. Not sensible, not pragmatic.

    • Nail on the head. That sect has become predominant in the establishment/government and in leftism- and is floundering on pragmatism.

      The most telling thing is that they hold precepts and potential offence caused, over actions. Four matters come to mind:

      -their mishandling and attempted coverup of the Rotherham gangs and other Pakistani child grooming gangs in the UK. End result? Poorer outcomes for children (sexually abused), but at least we were not “racist”.

      -That refugee getting released after raping a child in Germany, because he couldn’t speak German and therefore couldn’t understand the boy did not consent. End result? Justice in the eyes of the public isn’t served, but at least we we’re not racist. With a media blackout- the public’s reaction is controlled (to an extent).

      -missing the point of Bill Leak’s cartoon and refusing to even admit there might be generational/parenting issues in the aboriginal community. End result? Poorer outcomes for aboriginals, but damn we gave that racist a good shellacking!

      -Scott Alexander’s “you are still crying wolf” piece. It was essentially a critique of the framing around DJT. It will go ignored, the left will continue to consume themselves, and the media will continue to propel new reactionary waves to relevancy. I feel some pangs of sorrow for him, but he is a liberal and I can’t help but laugh that his own will treat him as a madman shouting in the wilderness.

      There are new winds in politics, and who wins will build a windmill rather than a wall. The Greens, aging has-beens like Keating & Hewson, liblab establishment, the progressive clerisy, even most of our oriental fifth-column friends, have chosen the wall.

      Katter, Hanson and Bernardi are the most notable to make windmills. Each thinks the wind comes from a slightly different direction.
      Who else will figure it out?

      • I don’t think they have any clue how much political ground they’ve lost in the last year. Even Brexit and Trump won’t have dented the faith. When The Greens stop criticising population growth, they’re not Green anymore.

      • That refugee getting released after raping a child in Germany, because he couldn’t speak German and therefore couldn’t understand the boy did not consent. End result? Justice in the eyes of the public isn’t served, but at least we we’re not racist. With a media blackout- the public’s reaction is controlled (to an extent).

        He wasn’t released. The case has been returned to the lower court.