How Aussie youth can fight off the Boomer war

From a much improved Jessica Irvine today:

If you think this election campaign has been boring, you haven’t been paying attention.

Australia’s major political parties have revealed themselves as complicit in an unprecedented act of generational theft.

There is now a bipartisan agreement by the major parties to accept budget deficits as far as the eye can see. Back when the Labor Party first took the budget into deficit, they were at least attempting to hit a surplus. The Liberal Party, too, used to pledge to fix the budget, even though they haven’t. The budget today is in as bad shape as when it took over from Labor.

“So what?” you may ask. Borrowing rates are historically low.

But eventually the books should balance, and when they do, they will do so on the shoulders of future generations who will pay higher taxes than otherwise.

…Essentially, the Howard government took the proceeds of the biggest mining boom in our history and funnelled it almost exclusively into the pockets of older Australians. A boom predicated entirely on extracting value from the resources owned by all Australians, past and future, was spent entirely on the present generation of adults.

…A bit. But mostly no. The budget is in deficit because we’re committed to spending billions of dollars each year on the age pension, family benefits for the well to do, tax concessions on super and housing, and assistance to industries which will be dead by the time young people come to get a job.

Our budget is in the red to fund the spending of today, not to invest in the future.

…Young people are angry. It’s time to get even.

Alas, if only they were. Young Australians seem not to understand how toxic is the war upon them. It’s not just the budget, it’s the serial bubble-blowing central bank as well (a fact you might want to remember, Jessica). And let’s not forget the failure to act on global warming.

Australian youth needs a lightning rod to educate and get them moving. And there is one that could be created. One that we at MB would have pursued long ago if we had the time. Australia needs a formal “Youth Party” in the Parliament.

To be effective, The Australian Youth Party would need to have liberal underpinnings and be committed to:

  • markets not rent seeking;
  • housing affordability via both demand and supply side reform;
  • tax reform in the name of intergenerational equity, and
  • carbon mitigation policy.

Of course it could be much broader platform given the youth perspective on pretty much everything will be different to that of the aged claw that is ripping their future to shreds.

Now is the time too. The Youth Party could galvanise enormous support very quickly and it would be immensely threatening to the Greens and Labor. That is all to the good because Labor is likely to win 2019 election after the Coalition crashes with the economy over the next term. The Youth Party must be prepared to get its hands dirty and do deals to get things done and it could well be in a position to force policy change under a Labor government in three years.

It needs some startup money and a seasoned team of people that understand how movements are started. After that, membership fees and public financing for political parties would fund it.

MB will support it. My own idea was to ask Waleed Aly to lead it.

Houses and Holes
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      • Stewie Griffin

        Savings are a fallacy of composition, while individuals can save for their retirement this doesn’t hold true for entire cohorts, particularly dominant generations like the Baby Boomers. They cannot all be savers or all drawing down at once, as they trigger asset bubbles and asset deflation.

        The Boomers savings for retirement would have been better spent improving the productive carrying capacity of the Australian economy to ensure that it could better meet the higher dependency ratio as they move into retirement – instead, their method of savings was to “invest” the surplus production into asset prices, introducing a cost overlay that effectively achieved the exact opposite.

        To make matters worse, they mistook the temporary demographic dividend as permanent, back filling the efficiency and productive gains with a higher population (who are also going to age).

        This issue has been further compounded by how Baby Boomer Govts have chosen to prepare to fund their retirement. Consider the two methods of providing for retirement:

        1. The old age pension: is an income transfer to meet basic living needs paid out of AFTER production surplus i.e. it is paid for by taxing final national income. This means that the final income transferred to retirees is dependent on the final production available in the economy, in a case of rising dependency ratios from ageing, that final surplus is going to be smaller, hence everyone has to wear the consequences – including the aged.

        2. The alternative model has been to provide tax incentives to save privately – super: The “savings” particularly within a private credit creation setting, get re-invested. More often than not the investment doesn’t occur in new technology, simply bidding up the prices of existing assets. Not only that, but the tax deductibility of superannuation helps to divert even more money into the price of existing assets, bidding up the price even further than what would otherwise be the case.

        The effect of this “saving” approach? An additional cost overlay is added to EVERY stage of production, thanks to inflated asset cost overlay – net result, final production is going to be lower than what it would otherwise be, particularly as the dominant saving cohort moves from “saving” mode to “draw down” mode.

        BUT – thanks to the Boomers largely being the owners of capital (as a cohort), they get extract their income from this process, even though total final production in the economy is lower than it would otherwise have been. This means nearly the entire cost of ageing isn’t worn by the aged, but instead by young people who are more dependent on the final surplus, after economic rents have been paid to the owners of capital.

        But the distortion doesn’t end there – thanks to their dependence on asset prices in order to provide their retirement income streams, the dominant ageing cohort use their political clout to ensure their asset prices remain inflated, via lower interest rates, further tax breaks, etc… all to maintain their asset prices. So an over reliance on tax deductible savings for retirement also leads to a whole swag of economic and behavioural distorting policies to ensure asset prices remain elevated.

        Basically the private saving model combined with the inevitable boom/bust from the asset inflation that it triggers, results in a giant form of Generational Rent seeking. Instead of allowing the market to clear, old people use their number to ensure their asset prices remain inflated, and following generations pay an economic rent/tithe far beyond what the intrinsic value of the use of the assets they are being forced to run the economy with, should be reasonably priced at.

        Along with the Boomers generational gerrymander of the housing market, superannuation is one of the greatest travesties levied against young people.

      • Bravo @Stewie! Asset deflation proves everything you say as undeniably correct. This is why so much is done to keep the bubble up.

      • Media slut unwarranted.

        Tour de Force, Stewie, a timely missive to join the Tour de France tomorrow night which should some in some measure assuage the Tour de Farce we are about to experience tomorrow. It’s enough to make me want to do a Tour de Whisky.

      • Very true Stewie. Agree with everything you say here. I wonder though, given most Super “savings” are in the hands of the various superannuation companies such as Australian Super, REST, HostPlus etc etc, who actually is making the investment decisions?

        For example, which age cohort is it that’s really pulling the investment decision strings not to invest in infrastructure?

      • @emess
        Mostly Gen-Xers, highly incentivised to benchmark their asset allocations to their mostly Gen-X peers, taking investment advice from same pool of mostly Gen-X asset consultants, using same pool of largely Gen-X global investment managers schooled by Boomer neoliberal free market economists, reporting to mostly Boomer boards without the first fucking clue beyond ensuring outcomes are in line with peers and that they create the perception of soberly adhering to rigid governance structures designed to ensure they never take a risk beyond what their peers are taking. The only funds with the cojones to pile into infrastructure used to be the industry and government owned funds, but governance was not great, investment selection subject to political pressure, too many white elephant projects, too much temptation to mark valuations to fantasy.

        The funds management industry is truly ground zero for overpaid, do nothing, productivity sucking, overseas conference gouging, golf playing, hooker banging, 5 star hotel flouncing, breakfast economic seminar sucking, masturbatory academic, free market worshipping, investment property fetishist, neoliberal, finance sector gumbies.

        I miss it so bad.

      • Stewie Griffin

        Emess, I was just been eves dropping on twitter on an interesting conversation with John Hempton, and his view on the need for helicopter money droos. Interestingly he has a similar view as what I have posted above, although more diplomatic and less unbalanced (naturally):

        The only main difference is that he see’s NIRP as being a necessary part of the cure, where as I see it as part of the symptoms of the underlying problem, protection of inflated asset values. He views helicopter money + NIRP as the way out, while I see helicopter (basic income) + positive interest rates as the solution. IMHO Positive interest rates are necessary to restore proper allocation of capital in decision making processes, while the basic income or helicopter money to underwrite the living standards of people previous dependent on extracting their income from inflated capital (i.e. the unwitting rent seekers)

      • Stewie Griffin

        Emess, I was just eves dropping twitter on an interesting conversation with John Hempton where he was sharing his views on helicopter money. In it he posted a reference to an earlier blogg where he pretty much echoed the view I made above (although in a less accusatorial and more balanced manner – naturally):

        Basically agreed with everything except his conclusion, where he sees a need for helicopter money and NIRP, which he see’s as part of the solution, where as I see NIRP as being part of the symptom i.e. wealth preservation.

        My view is that helicopter money should be accompanied by positive real interest rates, in order to restore rational decision making capability to the application and allocation of capital. The helicopter money should come in the form of Basic Income to ensure those people who were previous dependent on income streams flowing from inflated asset values, i.e. the unwitting rent seekers, are not allowed to starve.

        (For some reason an earlier posting disappeared, so apologies if it pops back into existence and there ends up being two versions of essentially the same post)

      • Hah! You’re a media guy HnH, I get it. But this is why I discount a lot of what you say as utter nonsense. Because media people are popularists by profession, thinking people should never let you lot near power.

      • Stewie Griffin….

        What a load of free market twattle…. cough… boomers not letting the market clear…. groan…

        What you fail to recognize – is – that it was the free market posse which forced people to gamble in the market casinos [providing churn and volume so the cream could be skimmed off] with delayed consumption via 401K and Super… now all the chattering proto armchair free market rationalists are befuddled because EMH has about the same gravitas as Says Law et al. Just to make it more surreal the fundamentalists are all crapping their pants, because to keep the show running they need to transfer the assets, built up over a life time, to the younger age cohort. I mean how do they force the issue without breaking their – own property rules – whilst keeping the brass ring dangling for the still productive age cohort, after liquidating the previous participants whom are now not as productive nor provide the longevity base required.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. which is even more absurd when the financial sector is the biggest rentiers on the orb… and has undue influence on the body politic… but yeah…. ev’bal boomers… anywho older people should have more wealth… its called – time – ninny’s…

      • Stewie Griffin

        Skippy, you mistake your own opinion for knowledge, which is why we hear so much of it.

        That you condemn me for saying the market should be allowed to clear, as free market twaddle, then rail against the banks and support given to them to prevent them from failing in other posts, is the height of hypocritical irony, but then hailing from a generation of hypocrites you are probably blinded to this (amongst your many) failings.

        It is interesting that you then go ahead and then basically restate what I’ve already said, in your own typical inpenitrable style, which you may think displays some sort of intellectual quirkiness, as though you were peacocking to an audience of feverant female admirers, when the reality is it just highlights you as being a complete wanker.

        But none of this surprises me, the Dunning–Kruger effect means the world is as populated with the likes of you, as a mangy dog is afflicted with arse worms, which I truly believe you resemble.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Waleed is blue blood Liberal. Still, he’d be an improvement on the current lot.

    • What about James Mathison he’s also a media slut, who was running for a local seat against Abbott. I didn’t think much of him to be honest on Australian Idol but maybe he’s not such a bad bloke?

  1. Is that what the youth of Australia need HnH? Im not having a go at you by the way – just a sad reflection on where politics (and by reflection society) are currently at

  2. Well, bugger me, someone is finally listening.
    Under 40s have c.45% of the vote.
    But if you’re heading to Dublin, you wouldn’t start here.
    You don’t need a seasoned team of people and a “media slut” leader.
    You need empty stomachs to energise the faint hearted.

  3. The Patrician

    Jessica Irvine nails it.
    Get out and vote now young Australians.
    The house of reps can be tipped with one percent kick
    These frauds can be rolled
    Its a waste of time whinging on Sunday if you haven’t voted

    • Fair comment TP
      Look what happened in the UK, (voluntary voting) the younger cohort did not turn out to vote ,and were turned out of Europe for want of votes.

    • It’s really been so for the past ten years, at least!

      People have been banging on here since MB started about starting a “Youth Party”. Considering the hung parliaments and Senate gridlock, “youth” (and by that I exclude Boomers and Gen X who are the problem) could easily have influenced the outcomes.

      This is what boomers did when they started out with relatively few voters initially. With initially just the 1% extra, they threw support behind Whitlam and Medicare, Dunstan the ALP Premier in SA on gay law reform, women’s liberation on equal pay and job access issues, environmental reforms and ending the war in Vietnam.

      One or two percent is all it takes. But talking about it for the past ten years, rather than doing anything, seems to be being complicit.

  4. Fairfax is voting for Turnbull. There are already parties professing to be for the ‘youth’. In reality, everyone is for the value of their properties to keep rising and everything else, EVERYTHING ELSE, be damned.

    Best idea for Strayan youth is to LEAVE. Take your youthful vigour and energy somewhere much more appreciative.

    Make no mistake – the property bubble in this country WILL explode and impoverish us the way it did the americans, irish, spanish etc.

    • Hi Ortega,

      serious query, what are the countries which you’d rate as potential options?

      • jim, everyones circumstances are different and you need to do your research.

        Mine fit with Northern Italy. Netherlands. Sth Sweden.

        Want to compare cost of living to Melb/Syd? Numbeo is great for that.

      • Neville Gearless

        With the coming bust/wipeout and still stuck with $2.5trillion private foreign debt, we’ll need to earn foreign mullah somehow, to pay it all off. Aussie’s packing off to the philippines to work as house maids, Western Union’ing their peso’s back to support their recently bankrupted boomer parents..

    • Or, youth could just vote in their own interests on Saturday.

      The balance is so fine now, that even a one percent swing would make the difference.

      If youth can’t be bothered to get out there and agitate a bit and use their votes to influence the outcome, surely not a great task, they aren’t going to make the effort to emigrate. Boomers did it all the time, so it’s doable.

      I’m not arguing that getting out isn’t an option, rather that if people can’t raise the effort to change their votes (something requiring changing a few numbers on a ballot paper), do you really think they are going to go through all the form filling and bureaucratic BS required for emigration?

  5. Most of the blue collar youth I know can barely read or write. I have no idea how they come to a conclusion on who to vote for.

  6. The youngsters are a lost cause, they are so mesmerized by their I phones and inter-connectivity, they have no idea of the real world.
    Brexit showed, with all the youngsters saying wow, if only we had voted, maybe the outcome would be reversed.
    Old footy saying, you have to turn up to practice to get a chance to play on game day.

    • Sadly, you’re right. But you have to ask yourself why? I don’t believe the whole technology excuse. I think they’ve been so marginalised by politics, that they no longer believe they can make a difference. Coupled with being brainwashed by parents, schooling, etc into conforming into a specific role in society they’ve pretty much just given up on thinking for themselves.

      • It’s a complex issue and I will add that since the late nineties, it is increasingly conform or starve. Life gets pretty harsh pretty quick now if you don’t (unlike the 1980’s). Plus the boom gave the illusion, for millenials, of a prosperous false normal. I remember an early twentysomething around 2009 telling me that ‘those without jobs didn’t want to work’. I replied (as a GenXer) that that isn’t the case when unemployment is at 10%. It seemed he hadnt really thought of that as a possibility; he’d never experienced high unemployment in his life and was repeating the rhetoric I had heard thirty years prior by the bluebloods and their parrots twice his age. It was only when a ‘higher class of scum’ started queing at Centrelink did the rhetoric abate somewhat. Human nature is the same young or old. I subscribe to the ideas of the ‘Fouth Turning’, but Australia isn’t there yet and this weekend will show how youth are thinking.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Yes Wiley I think you may be correct.

      I was listening to the radio the other day (one of the ABCs) and they were interviewing young people in the street and asking them what they thought of house prices and Labor’s policy on negative gearing etc,.. and it blew me away how all of them seem to just acquiesce to the fact, without resentment, they will never afford to buy a house, all said they would like to though.

      When pressed on what they knew about policy, some simply stated that they recalled reading somethimg about it on,…Facebook!

      Way to get politically organised,
      Join a party you young fools! and fight!
      Dont be shy or fearfull of looking uncool,.. just fucking do it.

      • Stewie Griffin

        They appear acquiesending because high house prices are the only reality they’ve ever known – it is normality for them. They’re little more aware of how badly they’re being screwed over by Baby Boomers and older Australians in general, as North Koreans, who mistakenly believe they’re living in a workers paradise.

        The only hope isn’t reform, the only hope the young have is stymieing the political process from continually bending the economy to serve the interests of #TheSelfishOld and the interests of the rentseekers (basically the same thing).

        By throwing a spanner in their increasingly fragile economy, the machinery that is devoted from extracting vast sums of money from young peoples pockets, to keep snivelling Baby Boomers wealth fully inflated.

        Break the system and instead of protecting their inflated wealth, which is based around generational rentseeking, let it evaporate. Then put them on a humble old age pension .

        My ability to pay an ungrateful old prick the pension, is vastly improved if I am working in an economy where the cost of capital isn’t being artificially kept inflated, so some Geezer can pull down a % from his super every year for his annual holiday in Europe.

    • “The youngsters are a lost cause, they are so mesmerized by their I phones and inter-connectivity, they have no idea of the real world.”

      This could have been said by any old fogie in the last century; just replace the technologies mentioned with the technologies of the day.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        “Kids and their damn abacuses taking up all the tables.”

        Grumpy Chinese Man. 2000BC.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Abacus’s?, How about those dam wax tablets!

        Socrates’ objections to writing. He worried that reliance on writing would erode memory (it has!), but also, and maybe more importantly, that reading would mislead students to think that they had knowledge, when they only had data.

      • Back in my day we didn’t just carry an onion on our belt for style reasons. It was for eating. Tony tried to bring us full circle.

    • You’re right. Youth have been rendered apathetic by consumerism. They are totally preoccupied with it.

    • I think you are right about the interconnectivity bit. it used to be an option for those unhappy with society to drop out for a few years to show the oldies they can’t be tamed, they could be hippies, punks or surfers or what ever, you could live day to day, travel, drive around straya. But kids now HAVE to have a phone, indoctrinated by apple or samsung, and must have an online profile to get anywhere, to be anyone, so they need money, they need a shit job to pay for the text messages and tweets, they have to conform to have the “essential life gadgets”; they cannot protest or drop out in fact its not even an option. Finally youth has been tamed – they even drive slow eh?

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        “they even drive slow”

        Yes,…when ever my father inlaw starts on one of his 2GB or the Daily Telegraph inspired rants about “young P plater hoons, I take great pleasure in pointing out, that statically the current generation are the safest young drivers ever! Then I go on to ask him how many times he and his mates drove pissed every week.
        A lot he begrudgingly addmits,… but things were different then he would go on.
        Yes indeed I Say, you lot were a lot more lethal in your behaivour than the more responsible young people of today.
        Silence ensures untill someone changes the subject.

    • Guys, I know any number of grand parents who wish they could take their grand children from their parents, who are bringing them up as cotton wool children, and give them an exposure to the real world.
      Believe me the Oldies can see it occurring, right under their noses.
      The future still requires leaders. leaders need exposure to events to form character, otherwise you end up with leaders like we currently have, who are mouthpieces for unseen persons behind the scene.

      • macrofishMEMBER

        Sounds like the grand parents did a shit job and now that’s being passed to the next generation.

      • Ronin8317MEMBER

        The past generation have grown up in a ‘bubble environment’. ‘Nobody can fail’, so you end up with soccer matches with no scores. ‘Everyone is a winner’, so parents refuse to let their kids take standardize test. It is against the law to let kids walk to school or shops, even if it’s just a few blocks down the road. That’s why kids grow up unable to think for themselves : they were never given a chance to be independent in anything.

    • So according to WW, the problems are all caused by the young ‘uns, and the oldies want to fix them but can’t. Riiiiight.

      Millionaires with pensions telling the kids what us wrong with them.

      • there is a lot of that evil stuff for sure, so why isn’t there blood in the streets and bricks thrown at auctions?

      • maybe, I think they are hammered to death by political correctness and advertising, poor buggers, gen y have no chance

        I’d love to see some youth anti establishment movement start up with some good music played by people squatting in empty investor homes on a massive scale

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        They told us bricks weren’t the way, social media was.

        I want my brick back.

      • “So according to WW, the problems are all caused by the young ‘uns, and the oldies want to fix them but can’t. Riiiiight.
        Millionaires with pensions telling the kids what us wrong with them.”

        It’s incredible, isn’t it!

      • No, LD. WW is saying that Gen X parents are bringing up their kids to be acqiescent little sheep.

      • A skerrick of evidence would help. Right now it just reeks of wealthy old people telling the youth (including young parents – the youth in Oz is now anyone under 40) that rocks were heavier back in their day.

        Meanwhile, we have an asset rich aged class who are favoured by tax and welfare policy blaming the young for every hardship that befalls them.

        Edit: and also I note that WW said the youngsters were mesmerised by iPhones and connectivity and are a lost cause. If we’re talking about a cohort that can vote (which he obviously is), we’re talking about 18 to 30 year olds, which would make their parents in the late 40’s to mid 60’s age group. Aka born from 1951 to 1968. Which demographic is that, I may ask?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        there is a lot of that evil stuff for sure, so why isn’t there blood in the streets and bricks thrown at auctions?

        Temporarily embarassed millionaire syndrome.

        The cultural capture by the neoliberal right is horrifyingly comprehensive.

        No, LD. WW is saying that Gen X parents are bringing up their kids to be acqiescent little sheep.

        Gen X are raising their kids to be market-oriented.

        “If you fail it is because you suck and deserve to fail. If you didn’t suck you wouldn’t be failing.”

      • Youth is anyone under 40?

        Make that 30.

        Most start having their mid-life crisis at 40.

        40 isn’t old, but it sure ain’t young. The thirties are the transition years between middle age and youth.

        Someone at 30 has been voting for twelve years, and is pretty much complicit in where we are now basically, Boomer Lite, Howard’s “aspirationals” in 2004. The complicity gets worse with age, so by the age 40, and voting for 22 years, they are totally indistinguishable from Boomers, ushering in the Howard era.

        There’s no empathy for youth in that lot.

      • Why isn’t there blood on the street ? Because they can’t rebel against their own parents (more so if they are still forced to live with them)

        My aunt said the trend now is for young couple to buy a Granny flat. I got incensed and told her granny flats are meant for grannies. The reality is so distorted that Black is white and up is down in Boomer Australia.

    • Then obviously their elders failed them when raising them and setting examples for them.

  7. Whatever you think the Older Generation have today, the next Generation(s) will want that as well…and more. No one willingly gives up anything they think they are entitled to…no one.

    • Possible weirdo here, but my family of 5 doesn’t own a car, which was inconceivable for most Australians 40 years ago. Of course technology has replaced it with ZipCar… but still, people will give things up if there’s a better way.

  8. More calls for austerity from people who don’t understand economics and deficits. Ask the Greek youth, or the Spanish youth how they feel about austerity and balanced budgets. You can argue about where money should be spent and who revenue should come from, but why this insistence on austerity?

    MB had a good piece on why government budgets are not the same as household budgets, maybe they should go re-read that one?

    • Someone, somewhere, sometime is going to have to do the ‘austerity’ bit – call it spending no more than you earn if you like, and repaying past national debt. The only question is – who? We can make it the old and ageing of today; those who have no shot of providing for themselves once their capital has gone, or those who have a significant part of life left to live and might come out of it ok. There are no guarantees, and the answer, of course, was not to let it get to where we are. But we have. Now someone is going to have to pay. It’s only a matter of who….

      • Here read this….

        “So, here lies the key insight. Inflation is the limiting factor for government expenditure, not taxes or borrowing. A government that can create money doesn’t need your money from taxation or from borrowing in order to spend. There is no limit to how much money a sovereign government can spend, but if government spending plus private spending exceeds the productive capacity of the economy then you get inflation.”

        I really don’t think inflation is our concern at the moment. Except perhaps, there’s not enough of it.

      • And that, Dan, is why we are all where we are right now. It doesn’t and won’t work. Have a look outside, and tell me that it does…..What has the 10 trillion dollars worth of ‘new money’ account for that we have created since 2009? If ‘this is it’ God help us if any more is created.No that’s wrong. God help the coming generations who are going to have to sort out for this mess.

      • Wake up, Dan! It isn’t working – it never has. It’s all a con at your/our expense. Money doesn’t grow on trees, no matter whose tress they are. Money is the mirror image of productivity. Thta’s it. Anything else is alchemy, and the more that’s made; the limitless amount that are created on a spreadsheet, the worse society gets. Don’t believe me? That’s your choice. But in days to come, remember what I have written here, and smile when you think “Well at least someone knew”

      • “What has the 10 trillion dollars worth of ‘new money’ account for that we have created since 2009”:

        Janet, I would argue that strong efforts were made to ensure that almost none of this money made it into the everyman’s pockets. Instead, it was used to shore up bank balance sheets and pump asset prices (which are essentially a means of control). Almost none of it was spent on goods and services; therefore no inflation (except for said asset prices).

      • There is monetary policy and there is fiscal policy. Central banks are making plenty of money available at low rates (that’s the monetary bit) but governments aren’t using the opportunity to stimulate their economies. Instead cheap money is being used by speculators to bid up assets. If you want growth, if you want jobs, if you want higher inflation, and affordable housing, then governments need to expand their fiscal spending, not contract it. Calling for contraction is calling for the deflationary, low rate, low growth, asset bubble doom loop.

      • Productivity is a Political Construct, Defined by Capital, and Reflected in a House of Mirrors

      • What really needs managing is the confidence dynamic. Print too much, distribute too freely and the curtain drops away and reveals the wizard is just some old codger pushing the print button. Confidence gives control. No one wants chaos. The exorbitant privilege is granted in exchange for stability and business certainty that allows for ‘stable economic growth’. It is the mechanism of control, it is an idea that binds us together, it is pure belief at the foundation and financial scaffolding above! Dan, sure you can print like crazy, sure you can run up massive debts – look at the US – but as soon as it gets sooooo ridiculous that people loose faith, the system falls over. This is the true bogeyman for economists in the term ‘inflation’ – loss of control. This is why that money is withheld from wider circulation. This is the only real limit on credit creation. QE for the peeps will only be used as a last resort and after such time as people are conceptually comfortable with trillions, etc etc in the sand boxed environment in which they are currently deployed.

      • Janet, sometimes you talk tripe.

        Austerity leads the economy further down the demand curve because it removes private spending from the economy, forcing higher deficits as taxation falls and welfare increases.

        “Money doesn’t grow on trees” – Well you got one right but for the wrong reasons. The Government creates money. They control the quantum and the timing of money into the economy.

        Remember eco 101 Janet. There are two players. The public sector and the private sector. All the others stuff is just cause and effect stirred up in a pot of mumbo jumbo by “commentators”, mainstream “economists” and vested interests.

        “Mirror is the mirror of productivity” – Umm, I thought that was GDP, but I’ll let that one go because you are just being silly.

        Sorry to give you a hard time, it sounds as though you are having one of those days..

      • SweeperMEMBER

        I am amazed anybody is still in the austerity corner at this point.
        Simple identity; total spending = total income.
        You say we need to spend less than we earn; given the above (which I assume you agree with) how exactly? Not rhetorical, I mean explain in terms of the identity.
        This topic annoys me so much, because Austerity is a total failure – everywhere – and everyone including the IMF agrees. Although I don’t agree with the MMT types, the government budget really isn’t like a household. Why?
        Because the governments earning power is driven by the size of the economy, and the size of the economy is driven by the quantum of spending (as we have agreed).

  9. SweeperMEMBER

    Notice how people like Sloan, Turnbull, Cormann, only talk about budget deficits in the context of inter-generational theft. The same people who invent stories about negative gearing.
    Maybe, just maybe, budget deficits are not inter-generational theft…
    And in fact they aren’t. Yes the next generation inherits a greater tax liability, however they also inherit the bonds. So it’s always a wash.
    The bubble on the other hand… is inter-generational theft. The next generation pays bubble prices for their houses crystalising gains and greater consumption power for boomers which won’t be available for the next generation exactly because its a bubble. Irvine has been brainwashed.

  10. casewithscience

    Terrible idea – Gen Y (and I was born in 81) are persuaded by emotion rather than logic. The problem with modern government is that it is not sufficiently controlled by logic and facts. A Youth Party would do nothing to benefit the country.

    What we actually need are leaders that can barricade themselves from the vile barbs of vested interests while formulating actual strategies for the future. The last pollie to try that was Kevin Rudd (prepare for the end of the mining boom, anyone?) but he was ultimately defeated by vested interests and their advertising to the fears of the populace.

    Unfortunately, I can only see a great disaster being enough to bring the population to the discipline of looking at reality rather than their own emotions.

    • I agree on this. In general I prefer Turnbull to Shorten in this election (having been a lifelong Labour voter; granted I’m 32), I don’t agree with everything the Libs do but Turnbull in particular is less shrill and reactionary than Shorten, suggesting there’s perhaps less emotion and more logic at play. And no I don’t own any negatively geared properties.

      • It’s not Australian Idol. Why not be old fashioned and vote on policies and an enlightened combination of self and national interest, instead of properties like ‘shrillness’ (which is basically bearing and charisma)?

      • Hi LordDudley,
        I definitely consider policy first, and on the balance I think the Libs will do a better job at keeping the economy stable (which is important to me as I work for a living) and delivering the big infrastructure projects needed to make our cities more liveable.

        I think the Libs need to do more on climate change and would prefer a parliamentary vote rather than a plebiscite on gay marriage (I’m massively in favour of same-sex marriage and will be marrying a fellow myself.) I just bought a small one bed place with my partner, which we live in hope to pay off over a few years through steady employment and careful spending.

        My number one concern is economic stability and I think Turnbulls more consultative approach is a plus in this regard, even if I do see where the other guy is coming from.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        St Mal consultative? No. More likes a bully who runs to mummy when he gets called out. Mummy being the likes of Rupert.

    • “Terrible idea – Gen Y (and I was born in 81) are persuaded by emotion rather than logic. ”

      Do you believe this is isolated to young people? I highly doubt there are many Australians that know much about politics or economics (they’re too busy working, raising families and living their lives) so they have no option but to vote based on a gut feeling, broad values, or incomplete information. Better quality media, not themselves captured by special interests, would help, but I think this is just a fact of life. Most people just don’t have the time or interest in politics to make an informed vote.

    • I don’t think I could stand a Youth Party, it would be full of militant social justice warriors ready to abuse and berate anyone who didn’t think like them or accept any rubbish they came up with next.

      • Is that like the LNP, whose policies are specifically constructed to transfer wealth to the old and asset rich? Why is one hypothetical group bad, but the other group that actually exists and has been doing this for years, with control of the majority of the media, OK? Answer me that.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        I don’t think I could stand a Youth Party, it would be full of militant social justice warriors ready to abuse and berate anyone who didn’t think like them or accept any rubbish they came up with next.

        Indeed. Led by the people in the media we see doing this all the time like Bolt, Hinch, Albrechtsen, Jones, et al.

      • Militant social justice warriors – nah not all us young folks are that dumb. Young people like Milo Yiannopoulos and Lauren Southern are rejecting political correct claptrap. Thank god.

  11. Great article.

    “The Youth Party could galvanise enormous support very quickly and it would be immensely threatening to the Greens and Labor”. Yay. Get rid of these nation destroying parties.

    “MB will support it. My own idea was to ask Waleed Ali to lead it” Smart guy, massive leftie that thinks global warming is GenY’s biggest problem. Global warming will take longer than that, and Australia doing a lot will achieve nothing. I’m being a lot defetist here I know, but there’s bigger fights. Ali is also very pro refugee. There’d be no limit to numbers he’d invite.

    Imagine global warming when it become hard hitting in 70 years or so and we’re 50 million? One issue Australia can control, the other we can’t. Tackle population growth in Australia is the priority by 1000. Anyone thinking this issue right through could only come up with population as the priority FOR AUSTRALIA. I suspect all recoverable fossil fuel will be used, regardless. Therefore fewer people and carbon sinks are paramount.

    You’ve only go to read the defense of the Greens on MB to understand GenY don’t have a brain among them. GenY will grow old, wisen up and then start shafting the next young idiots voting Green.

      • Ok AB, I admit I shouldn’t have said them. I was trying to make a point. Then again, can’t see them worse than the three running Australian politics presently. Can you?

        You missed (or ignored) my comment yesterday……”Do the police know they’re robbing the bank?…..If so, yep police’s fault. “

  12. Josh MoorreesMEMBER

    I’m 100% behind it and would probably even participate in it given the opportunity but ultimately like you say we’d need people who know their way around the political system and all that entails

    I think that’s where you’ll fall down since I imagine most of those people wouldn’t be very sold on the ideas of the party

  13. So, H&H, does this mean – one day out from the election – that you’re already consigned to more of the same from Canberra, no matter who wins?

  14. I’d be in like Flynn if the following were also included as priorities:

    Measures to alleviate poverty
    Consideration of a Universal Basic Income

    • “Consideration of a Universal Basic Income”

      What does that mean? Global minimum wage? All 7 billion of us?

      • You could consider UBI as the spreading of wealth generated from tasks being performed without human need, that traditionally would have been filled by human workers.

        As automation takes most jobs, the wealth shouldn’t be concentrated but spread amongst the people. It’s a new paradigm because we’ve never faced the idea of enough for everyone in a large scale.

        These days they manufacture scarcity (think limited releases on products, trying to copyright virtual data of which copying/duplicating is an inherent property. It’s why they are even working on block chain stuff.

        But if everyone had enough for everything they wanted, would we bother? Maybe one day we can find out. Or we could just continue with growing inequity, concentration of power, and emotional and mental control by media abusing our psychology until we reach the pinnacle; highlander, there can only be one.

    • Per UBI…

      After straw manning the JG, Yglesias expresses his enthusiasm for a Basic Income Guarantee (BIG). He prefers simply handing out money to the jobless because it’s not as “messy” as the JG. (I’ve already argued why such objections should not be taken seriously). But more importantly, like many BIG advocates, he assumes that the BIG will magically solve the fundamental problem of economic insecurity.

      Here are sixteen reasons why this assumption is wrong.


      1. Yglesias may not realize it, but all serious academic support for BIG is based on the idea that many people will quit working (this is considered desirable in order to eliminate bad jobs and ultimately ‘decommodify’ labor; e.g. here and here ). So the goal is to reduce the supply of labor and reduce production.

      2. JG provides a “good job” alternative to people who work in “bad jobs”. When private employers want them back, they have to provide at least the same or better living wage-benefit package and work conditions offered in the JG. JG sets the labor standard.

      3. Under BIG, production drops, consumption rises, and so do prices. Suddenly, the value of the BIG grant has been eroded. Great success: the poor are still poor.

      4. Under JG, employment rises, socially useful production rises, and (as we have argued many times) some of that production is dedicated to the benefit of the poor, providing goods and services at the local level that the private sector has not provided, and thus it absorbs part of the wage. In other words, both supply and demand rise.

      5. Coupled with its countercyclical mechanism, JG is an inflation stabilizer (not an inflation generator, like BIG). We’ve modeled this many times (see here, here, here). Inflation from other sources is, of course, possible (runaway bank lending, speculation, oil shocks etc.—all are separate issues.)

      6. BIG is not countercyclical. It’s universal, unconditional, but does not fluctuate with the business cycle. JG is a direct response to recessions and expansions.

      7. There is no mechanism by which BIG can ensure full employment over the short or long run. Only the JG can.

      8. In short, BIG doesn’t deal with price (or currency) stability, useful output, or any of the negative externalities from unemployment.


      9. As Amartya Sen taught us, poverty is not just a function of lack of adequate income. Providing income alone does not eliminate poverty.

      10. The poor and the unemployed want to work (here, here). And as my work on Argentina showed (9m14s), receiving income is the fifth reason why the poor wanted to work! Why do BIG advocates presume to know what’s better for the poor than the poor themselves? BIG does little for those who want to work.

      11. There is almost a ‘neoclassical market equilibrating assumption’ behind most BIG analysis that says: “as long as people have cash, the market will magically provide the goods for them, allow them to acquire assets, provide them with the freedom to do what they please, etc. etc.” If the market hasn’t solved these problems now, why would it do so just because people get cash? All structures that marginalize, reduce opportunities, and discriminate remain. JG is not a panacea for all these problems, but it deals with one crucial and systemic aspect of marginalization – the absence of guaranteed decent work.

      12. Amartya Sen also taught us that what matters is not just freedom, but substantive freedom. That is, policy has to 1) recognize what individuals themselves want and value; 2) it must provide these opportunities; and 3) it must remove obstacles from taking advantage of these opportunities.

      13. The JG does precisely that: recognizes many people want paid work, provides the job opportunity, and removes obstacles from taking the opportunity by targeting the jobs to the communities, and providing the very services that one might need in order to take care of these opportunities (education, transportation, care etc., etc.).

      14. BIG may lull the recipients into a false sense of security. Once the BIG grant proves inadequate to liberate the poor from their poverty, and the poor decide to search for better paying jobs and opportunities, they will not be there. Just like they aren’t now. As research has shown the mark of unemployment is devastating and unemployment breeds unemployability.

      15. Again, many BIG bloggers are not familiar with even the basic BIG literature. There is such a thing called ‘participation income’ and ‘civic minimum’ in serious scholarly work (Atkison 1995 and White 2003, respectively)—an idea that society is built on the principle of reciprocation. Society provides you with a basic income; you reciprocate by participating in socially-productive activities. This is exactly what the JG does. No matter what Yglesias says, it is not based on the coercion principle of workfare, but rather on the principle of participation.

      16. I find it ironic that we have to debate each other. BIG and JG stand on much the same principles. Let policy provide an opportunity to all to perform socially useful activities on the ‘participation principle’ through the JG, while supporting those who cannot (the young, retired, disabled, with onerous care burden) and we have a stronger, more stable economy that creates socially useful activities that serve the public purpose.

      Yes, sending a check to people is not as “messy,” but let’s stop pretending that it’s a panacea for the fundamental problem of economic insecurity.

      Disheveled Marsupial… recommend expanding reading and turf the rational reasoning approach… otherwise some might be surprised when they find out they bought a…. pig in a poke….

      • I’m aware of the JG and please don’t infer I don’t read widely.
        JG has it’s own set of problems including
        – budget constraints
        – the need for workers? Is demand sufficient or would they be digging and filling holes (in which case it’s a UBI with exercise). I think the economy is fundamentally going to need human capital less and less.

        As you point out JG and UBI advocates probably agree on more than they might at first glance. That’s important to keep in mind!

      • Please reference information wrt budget constraints especially after forwarding UBI…

        “– the need for workers? Is demand sufficient or would they be digging and filling holes (in which case it’s a UBI with exercise).”

        Do desist with the bastardized broken window meme… JG does not envision hole digging and is an egregious trope, decades of malinvestment into socially unproductive enterprise has left a huge amount of socially productive work to be done.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. if your so well read… do provide a concise rebuttal to the points of order in the link and leave the dismissive hand waving to the ideologues…

      • Stewie Griffin

        16 Reasons huh Skippy – even God was able to keep his lists of suggestions to 10 points….

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        What jobs are going to be guaranteed when probably half or more of the population won’t be able to do anything a robot can’t do faster and better ?

      • Stew….

        Your need for esoteric like simplification is apparent… I mean why go out and observe reality and then establish a methodology to frame it, then quantify what the data says… when its easier to just quote scripture… then if’n things don’t work out you can always find some demon or devil to pin shit on and never have the misfortune of having to consider observer bias is the drama… ***Universal Truisms*** are comported to – Facts – arbitrarily and self awarded…


        Robots work OK in production facilities to pump out product and not much else, so a UBI is just priming the pump for the – owners of that production – which then can be utilized to increase the multipliers and leverage via stock exchanges and financial vehicles. Just think how corporatist can dial in their balance sheets with that kinda information, might as well cue up behind the masters back door and thank him for the scraps thrown….

        Disheveled Marsupial…. Gezz there is so much work that could be done cleaning up the mess made during and post industrialism whilst preparing for the down the road effects of AGW to keep full employment going for decades…

  15. The Patrician

    50:50 inspite of the combined resources of
    and the most concerted scaremongering effort ever from the entire FIRE sector
    Get out and vote kids
    Show them you don’t want your country run by debt peddlers and Real Estate agents
    Roll the corporate rentseekers

    • Yep, what a disgrace the media are backing Turnbull with his plan no one’s been told anything about.

      The plan is to bring in cheaper workers, and shaft Australians.

      Vote Sustainable Australia or Independent.

      Vote LNP, Labor and Greens into history.

  16. Groan…. we have had the largest wealth transfer in modernity and boomers were not the recipients post GFC, not that any age cohort working since the 70s got the so called slice of the pie….

    Report: 74% Of Billionaire Wealth From Rent-Seeking

    Starting with the Bernays social PR meme….

    “Science fiction uses generations as guinea pigs in thought experiments: writers will change one important feature of human life, but leave the rest intact, in order to hypothesise how a single, world-rearranging shift might play out. In S M Stirling’s Emberverse series (2004-), a mysterious event alters the laws of physics, neutralising electricity and gunpowder, and the kids who are born after ‘The Change’ – archers, farmers, fighters – are different from the ones who knew the powered world. In Robert Heinlein’s Orphans of the Sky (1963), people living in the closed environment of a multigenerational starship mutiny and kill many of their leaders; years later, their descendants have lost any true knowledge of their situation and believe that their ship is the whole world.

    These fictions work because they are controlled experiments. They allow you to shove aside the complexities of life, to isolate one variable, one aspect of human experience. They give you a window into the plasticity of human culture, the impact of big historical events, the exercises of power between young and old, and the way that we make and re-make our worlds through education and tradition.

    But in real life, I find generational arguments infuriating. Overly schematised and ridiculously reductive, generation theory is a simplistic way of thinking about the relationship between individuals, society, and history. It encourages us to focus on vague ‘generational personalities’, rather than looking at the confusing diversity of social life. Since I’m a ‘Gen-X’er born in 1977, the conventional wisdom is that I’m supposed to be adaptable, independent, productive, and to have a good work/life balance. Reading these characteristics feels like browsing a horoscope. I see myself in some of these traits, and can even feel a vague thrill of belonging when I read them. But my ‘boomer’ mother is intensely productive; my ‘Greatest Generation’ grandmother still sells old books online at age 90, in what I consider to be the ultimate show of adaptability and independence.” – snip

    Skip here…. just the thought that the term Boomers ™ is so neoliberal in quantifying reality from a market perspective, loaded with tropes like “stolen wealth” and divide and conquer rhetoric to get the unwashed to bash each, other whilst the BSD rentier looters sail off into the sun set is just deliriously absurd….

    “I recently explored this issue in my paper Extreme Wealth Is Not Merited, and found that American industries that produce more billionaire wealth than average relative to their size share one of three characteristics:

    They depend heavily on the state whether through government procurement, licenses, or subsidies, and are therefore prone to rent-seeking. This category includes for instance oil, gas and mining, gambling, or forestry.
    They are plagued by market failures such as imperfect information, like finance, or by the combination of intellectual property and so-called “network externalities”, which create monopolies like those that pervade the IT industry and industries prone to fads like fashion and music.
    The billionaire wealth they have generated is largely inherited.

    There are, of course, all sorts of reasons why billionaire wealth intensity varies across industries, not all of which involve rents. However, Joseph Stiglitz counters that the very existence of extreme wealth is an indicator of rents. Competition drives profit down, such that it might be impossible to become extremely rich without market failures. Every good business strategy seeks to exploit one market failure or the other in order to generate excess profit. I discuss in my paper how some of these strategies are more or less harmful than others. While not all the excess billionaire wealth generated by state-dependent or market failure-prone industries may be due to rents, it is also possible that my figure underestimates the proportion of rent in billionaire wealth. After all, the perfect competition of economics textbooks rarely exists in reality and there must be many pockets of rents in what I call the “competitive industries” as well. Given the current state of research in the field, 74% is the best estimate of the proportion of US billionaire wealth derived from rents.” – snip

    Disheveled Marsupial…. The ageism thingy is akin to “Hippy Punching” and says more about the inability to deal with fundamental problems or a complete lack of want in taking on the primary agency… what… like anyone here thinks the BSD are going to reward the millennials for going all Stefan Molyneux… yeah… with some Voluntaryism, Gig, Sharing, econnomics….

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      “But in real life, I find generational arguments infuriating. Overly schematised and ridiculously reductive, generation theory is a simplistic way of thinking about the relationship between individuals, society, and history. It encourages us to focus on vague ‘generational personalities’, rather than looking at the confusing diversity of social life.”

      As usual Skip your words are amoungst the wisest and most intelligent here and for once, completly intelligible to this reader.
      I do usually enjoy googling, trying to decipher the meaning of your many diatribes but today I have many jobs to get through and I thank you for your succinct words above,…they express exactly how I feel about this topic.

      • drsmithy….

        I don’t think you understand what the word comprehension means… I think many confuse it with mental palatability e.g. hedonic reward which are agreeable to the “palate” i.e. homeostatic satisfaction….

        Disheveled Marsupial…. you would think after all the links and comments the hints would have dispelled such obvious Bernays social PR jargon…. but then econnomic libertarians are still fat fingering everything but the incoherence of their ideology… scripture is like that imo…

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        I don’t think you understand what the word comprehension means

        Pretty sure I do.

        You’re the one who consistently and persistently conflates people saying “I don’t understand with what you’re writing” with “I don’t agree with what you’re writing”.

      • drsmithy…..

        Just because stuff is above somes pay grades or demands that simplified to the point of meaninglessness does not make it incoherent, its akin to the AGW deniers rhetorical gamesmanship or fundamentalist economic libertarians thought collective groupthinks inability to self reflect… but endlessly seek external bogeymen as the origin of all woe…

        Disheveled Marsupial…. that’s why I usually link or copy and pasta so I don’t have my time taxed by some breather laying a steaming one on it for my troubles…. the screech is just my way of returning the favor for years of coping all the scripture regurgitation…

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Nobody has any trouble understanding the copypasta skip, that’s the point.

      • drsmithy….

        My point is the screech is intended, but some like to make it out otherwise… as well as the inference that linking information is some how not on par with original thunkit [basically regurgitated environmental bias dressed up]…

        Disheveled Marsupial…. still waiting for the detractors to show their workout or provided the same quality of information wrt events…

      • haroldusMEMBER

        smug superior self absorbed smelly

        not talking boomers here – young hippies are just as odious, if not more

        full of fuckin stories about swimming with dolphins and grass.

        don’t get me started on neil young

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Too far!!!!

        I’ll support the right to speak freely but attacking that nice Mr Young is too much! Take it back.

        Anyhow, he needs our support. He’s still sad about the LincVolt burning to the ground.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        he”s not even that good on guitar! he just plays the same fuckin pentatonic solo over and fuckin over covering up his shitness with feedback.

        i have come to respect zimmerman (not like) but neil young – never! i tried to like him believe me, but in the end he has no redeeming features.

        i hope this doesn’t come between us.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        What you see as his weakness I see as his strength. Remember I once admitted I’m crap on the guitar?

        Well, Neil Young is all that I can play.

      • I think you two confuse hippies with the 60s drug thingy… tho that’s what right wing thumper social PR can accomplish after a few decades… too bad about all the Stepford wives on pills and how that started the whole kids on moms script thingy…

        Disheveled Marsupial… Anywho … lest we forget hippies are more beatnik than the Dead Head – Beach Boys thingo…

      • haroldusMEMBER

        as an ex guitar teacher i am incapable of criticising anyone’s playing.

        if that’s what you enjoy playing, then best of luck to you in this harmless, gentle activity.

        i have been doing a lot a fingerpicking and might try to work out Going to California this weekend.

        Now there’s a (thieving) band!

        And I can’t help notice the irony of us helping Aussie youth fighting the Boomer war by discussing their musical icons!

      • haroldusMEMBER

        Skippy I’m talking Nimbin/festival hippies

        I watched Gimme Shelter and I was on the side of the bikies. What the fuck were the stones thinking?

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Oh, I don’t enjoy it, it’s all that I can play. The same as only being able to afford a Kia to drive.

      • No way.
        Hippies should be able roam the streets and piss off everyone who “did the right thing” as they are on their way to a job they hate to pay off the house that they don’t really care for in a city that they wish to flee.
        Hippies, dropouts, vagabonds, gutter punks and deadbeats are the spice to the gruel of the Masterchef, The Block, The Voice, The Age, The Australian and all that thoughtless mind-rot.

        Keep your dreams, don’t sell your soul.

      • haroldusMEMBER

        MB those chicks are foxy!

        Also you can tell by the way he plays C he really knows what he’s doing. See he’s got the 4th finger on the bottom string, that means you can strum all 6 strings without the funny sounding E at the bottom. Try it – it feels funny at first but it opens up all sorts of alternate bass picking and left hand anchoring.

    • Skippy, sorry to paraphrase you but ‘ The ageism thingy is akin to “Hippy Punching” and says more about the inability to deal with fundamental problems” pretty much says it in regard to the intergenerational theft argument. Imo it’s a situation of failed public policy delivering inequality of the flow of benefits within social strata. (I exclude the .1% echelon)
      And yes it’s ageism pure and simple.

      Note to MB – it’s a hate crime, Stop using it as click bait!

  17. The Liberal Party is Date Raping the Australian Fair Go, is Drink Spiking the Youth of this country, and by Youth I mean anyone under the age of 50 that does not own property, is paying more than 40% of their after-tax income on mortgage or rental payments, has been outbid at auctions by local investors looking for another fixer upper for their collection or Chinese students driving the latest S-class, is still paying off HECs debt from their barista wages, is putting their compulsory health insurance premiums on the credit card, is drawing down the last cent of home equity to pay this quarter’s private school fees, is watching low definition YouTube files buffer for five minutes, is comforting family and friends made redundant from the local factory closed down after a 80 years of operation, is counting the email rejections from weekly applications for jobs they are overqualified for, is caring for family turned away from hospitals or aged care, is tutoring family and friends left behind at the local State school, that can’t afford to keep the heat on during winter, that have been told to work harder, get richer parents, stop whinging.

    Malcolm Turnbull is a phony, a front man for malevolent finance and legal sector neoliberals, disguised as a leather jacket wearing progressive. He will casually choke the future of this nation’s entire Youth* while cheerily exhorting them to innovate their way out of the problem and taunting them that they really enjoy it.

  18. FiftiesFibroShack

    The problem is people that only consider their interests when voting. I’m not sure a youth party focusing on what’s best for them is going to fix much, although it’s better than nothing, it’s just more of the same.

    • PantoneMEMBER

      People voting in their self interest is great. The problem is many people don’t know what’s in their best interest and vote against it, because the people who do know manipulate those who don’t.

      • FiftiesFibroShack

        Yes, I’ve mentioned LNP boat policy as the gold standard for fooling the uninformed into voting for a party that doesn’t represent their interests. However, if the only voter consideration is what’s best for the individual, we’re going to continue to be dragged around by whatever cohort happens to have demographics on their side. The national interest, and a few thoughts for the people struggling, might just make this country a better place.

        On paper I should be a diehard LNP supporter, but I have to live with myself, and have never met a diehard LNP supporter that wasn’t a whinging twerp.

    • haroldusMEMBER

      I would actually vote for an increase in the Medicare levy. It would affect me as I am over the threshold but it means a lot to me. That’s what pisses me off about NG, people lowering their taxable income. Apart from all the other stuff that pisses me off about it.

  19. Original John

    Great title on the anniversary of the Somme.

    “Older men declare war. But it is the youth that must fight and die.” Herbert Hoover

    • Replace “older men” with “the rich” and “youth” with “the poor” and you’d be right.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      How about ” No War but Class War!”

      This intergenerational garbage plays the same roll as racism and professional
      sports, and that is to divert attention away
      from concepts like Solidarity, responsibility
      to family and comunity,…all to keep the focus on the individuals right to contribute, through consumption,…yuk!

      The enemy is unfettered Capitalism and consumerism as a moral philosophy, its privatisation, Austerity and Plutocracy.
      The War, the only real war in our own little sheltered part of the world is a Class war.
      The Rich know they are fighting it,… the rest are deluded and manipulate into thinking class doesn’t exist or effect them.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Hey dude
        Im for “the market”, the legal protection of private property, even a little capitalism.
        I like having a wide selection of “stuff” to buy, as much as any plutocrat does. Im no Commie whos ideas are just as stupid as the Any Randian libertarian brigade.

        But as an unregulated (by Democracy) moral and political philosphy “Free”market capitalism is a joke,.. as is the embracing of any Economic theories as “fact”.
        We are just not that smart of a species (yet) to really be able to staye we have got a handle on what the “Correct” system is.
        To much ideology and not enough humble pragmatism in the economic schools of thought.

      • Yep, all the generational stuff is a divisive distraction. Insulting large numbers of potential allies with gross generalisations based on chronology isn’t helping fix anything.

  20. Getting widespread appeal and keeping the angry man cohort at bay would be a problem though, looking at the comments section of this blog 😉

    • There’s already a basic wage in Australia. The dole pays okay. You can survive on it.

      Please explain yourself. Are you talking universal basic income here or globally?

      • Wasn’t talking exclusively about you Richard. The dole is insufficient in my opinion and is based on the premise of working in the future. See above for discussions/links on UBI and JG.

      • “The dole pays okay. You can survive on it.”

        I just check, Newstart is $260 a week for a single person, plus $75 odd dollars a week for rent assistance. Out where I live you can’t even rent for under $200 a week! I don’t know how people living in Melbourne pay rent, bills and eat on a little over $300 a week.

      • RobW and superunknown.

        Yep, it’s not much. Imagine how little there will be to go around with double the population?

      • Ronin8317MEMBER

        You used to be able to rent a single bedroom, all expense paid, for under $150 a week in Sydney until a few years ago. (I see them advertised on poles on my way to work). Not any more. It’s now over $200 for a bed space!! Look at the share accommodation listing on Gumtree.(and cringe at all those guys looking for a single female room mate..) It is crazily expensive..

  21. IMO, the best MB could do for Australian youth is start a boycott of Australian media who are now comprehensively supporting a return to LNP due to their plan. WTF? What plan?.

  22. Oh Jessica the newspaper you work for wants mass immigration to continue.

    There are 7 million unemployed in France! Yet the lefties want more immigrants?

    It is very annoying to see non-citizens working in entry level jobs which would otherwise be given to Aussies.

    • haroldusMEMBER

      I don’t get anyone who defines themselves by their religion (Abbott, Morrison) and why anybody would believe a word they say. In their mind the only truth they need to prove is truth to god. Similarly that’s why morrison keeps not answering questions in interviews.

  23. Most of the youth can barely see where they are walking in the street looking at their phones, and you want them to look to their future? 😛

  24. Rather than starting a new party get in on an upcoming party. Look at the affordable housing party. if you get in while they are still in the early stages you may be able to help with settings policies. They might have missed registration for this election but will be ready for the next

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      I was with them for a while. They were very, very disorganized, which is why I gave up on them. Doesn’t help when the person who can make decision doesn’t even live in Australia.

  25. Youth need to do one of two things:
    1.Leave Australia to the entitled boomers,
    2.Force change by revolting against the system.
    The major parties are so dated they have their heads so far up boomers arseholes it’s not funny. And the boomer cohort, have the wealth to ensure that the major two well and truly cater for them and no one else, including youth. That is why you don’t see self-entitled narcissistic boomers contributing to fixing the mess that they created. No, they have too many investments and holidays and healthcare to consume, while they happily will allow our kids to pick up the tab and pay back a debt they had no part in creating.
    If that is not enough for our children to fight and get angry against these bastards, I don’t know what the fuck is. The sooner boomers are 6 feet under, the sooner we can start talking seriously about apologising to our kids and help them. You won’t get that from boomers.

    • Or 3). When wielding that stubby pencil tomorrow, don’t vote for the major parties.

      If people can’t raise the energy to move that tiny pencil by a few millimetres, do you seriously think they are going to raise a sweat doing anything at all?

      Wishful thinking steernorth.

  26. “How Aussie youth can fight off the Boomer war?”
    Leave the country and go to USA, leave Australia to the chinese, that will teach them. Australia is very similar to Africa: all export based, no high-tech, not even a decent internet and crazy prices… What future can a 20 yo expect here?

      • So all the baby boomers set up the ideological schools of economics – ????

        From Galbraith’s Great Crash of 1929:

        In many ways the effect of the crash on embezzlement was more significant than on suicide. To the economist embezzlement is the most interesting of crimes. Alone among the various forms of larceny it has a time parameter. Weeks, months or years may elapse between the commission of the crime and its discovery. (This is a period, incidentally, when the embezzler has his gain and the man who has been embezzled, oddly enough, feels no loss. There is a net increase in psychic wealth.) At any given time there exists an inventory of undiscovered embezzlement in – or more precisely not in – the country’s business and banks. This inventory – it should perhaps be called the bezzle – amounts at any moment to many millions of dollars. It also varies in size with the business cycle. In good times people are relaxed, trusting, and money is plentiful. But even though money is plentiful, there are always many people who need more. Under these circumstances the rate of embezzlement grows, the rate of discovery falls off, and the bezzle increases rapidly. In depression all this is reversed. Money is watched with a narrow, suspicious eye. The man who handles it is assumed to be dishonest until he proves himself otherwise. Audits are penetrating and meticulous. Commercial morality is enormously improved. The bezzle shrinks.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. did the boomers time travel back before the great depression and force it to happen – ????? – chortle…. and jim and steernorth think America is boomer free territory… strange how its the ground zero for the boomer ™…. cough middle class paradigm…

      • Lol! Steernorth, in the same way as the Boomers’ arrival helped Whitlam get Medicare and social reforms ranging from Women’s Lib and Gay rights up and running, so did Gen X’s arrival help get John Howard’s agenda up and running.

        Now that it’s clear that this has led to malinvestment in real estate, underinvestment in infrastructure, and unreal house prices, those same Gen X types are desperately flailing round looking for someone else to blame.

        That’s not to excuse Boomers in any way, but coming from Gen Xers who are just as culpable, and who heve done fuck all (such as environmental, social, economic reforms comparable to the movements of the sixties), that is just sickening hypocrisy. Gen X is a huge part of the problem, as is its wish to blameshift rather than address the problems.

        With Cormann and Morrison as standard bearers for Gen X economics. Says it all really.

        Useless hypocrites.

  27. yep, a bankrupt nation full of landed millionaires gracefully sipping lattes, reading the paper while they wait for the weekly aged pension cheque to arrive in the mail….
    will they vote, you bet they will ’cause nobody better not fuck with this gravy train its too good to be true!
    its my #entitlement !

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Bendy, those pensions will disappear soon enough and many will have to sell the family home to survive and have those proceeds rapaciously devoured by the finnance and aged care industries and afterwards the concentration of wealth into fewer and fewer hands will continue unabated, thanks in part to that very human mentality of “if im being bent over and fucked then everybody else should be bent over and fucked also”.
      Its real slave v slave stuff.
      The real perpetrators of the attack on all of our standards of living are laughing their heads off at all this petty bickering amoungst the pesantry.

      • Time will tell…I’ve yet to see any real political will to tighten up the aged pension eligibility scam….

        I’m not bickering either…I’m busy buying up stakes in aged care facilities, dementia meds & funeral parlours so I can give them a very dignified (expensive) farewell. only then will I afford to one day buy one of their houses from their portfolio

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Your just as likley to be buying that property from some 26 year old Chinese woman in a 200k mercadies.

        And when you have this property and grow old yourself,…who are ya gona sell to when its time to move on ..a young person at a discount? Or the full price the market can bear?

  28. Hi Skippy,

    RE. UBI and the points you require me to provide a rebuttal to. When you say ‘ decades of malinvestment into socially unproductive enterprise has left a huge amount of socially productive work to be done’ is that to be included with the 16 points you copied and pasted from another author?

    And sorry, I’ll desist with the ‘dismissive hand waving’. That and pre-prepared, smug, sanctimonious rants can get REALLY tiring eh?
    Scruffy Monotreme….something, something…

    • Are you seriously saying there’s not a metrick fucktonne of infrastructure backlog?

      Or social service type stuff needing humans to do it?

      Just looking at the appalling stats for indigenous issues, where human help might benefit is eye-watering.

      And providing skills for that?

      You’ve hardly rebutted anything Skip has said. Of course, that’s your right, but you obviously thought you had a point to make with your OP, so why not defend it? A lack of defence to what seems at least arguable points made by skippy implies there isn’t much of a defence.

      But you can prove him wrong, er, can’t you?

    • Per you first statement – yes – if your as well read as you claim to be, if not, do check out the attribution referenced in the post wrt substantiating the authors perspective.

      JG proponents have forwarded that such a plan would be regional, democratic and would address fundamental issues wrt the means of – ownership of capital and production as each region needs dictated, w/ a JG being a living wage model, rather than a subsidy to vested interests – see Walmartification et al. Most important it removes the vulgar NAIRU and replaces it with a labour market rather than labour pool.

      Disheveled Marsupial…. maybe if you actually unpacked what part of the post I linked that you disagreed with and substantiated that position beside how you feel about it you would not get so much cheek…

  29. Asset test on owner occupiers. Time to unlock some of the millions the boomers are sitting on. reverse mortgages. Why should the young slog it out holding up those with the resources to fund themselves. crack the nut open. If the young start to unite they will have power to get action. Generational warfare is needed.

    • Yeah, but the young still couldn’t afford to buy the houses, they would be sold to the investor class. BTW 48% of new home investment loans are to under 30’s. Gotta be careful when we generalise.

      • Yes, interesting stat regarding 48% of new investment loans are to under 30’s. Wonder how many of these under 30’s are still at mum and dads until 40, unmarried and childless. Their first house purchase is an investment property. What a disgrace we ended up in this situation. The rest of the world is waking up to what we have created socially. Very damaging days ahead.

  30. “How Aussie youth can fight off the Boomer war”

    Won’t someone think of us poor ignored Gen Xers…

  31. Hmmm a “Youth party”….what is it that Bernard Shaw said … Youth is wasted on the young or words to that effect…I suspect a Youth party would also be a wasted opportunity if it relied too heavily on the young.
    A few years back I seriously considered political life but fortunately sanity prevailed. Politics is absolutely no place for any old man that still has vision, drive or ambition or any other options for that matter. I dare say Politics is even less suited to a young man or woman and I’d definitely advise my kids to only consider it as a choice of last resort. In the end analysis Politics is a very dirty game, I’m of the opinion that there are much easier ways to make a buck especially if your willing to get your hands that grubby.

    Not sure where this leave Australia: I suspect we’re seeing the beginnings of a true transnational generation where individuals / countries that want “work” must compete for it by bidding an ever higher technical skills pool along with the necessary capital to make creating work an attractive business option.
    Sometimes I wonder if ZIRP and NIRP are not the philosophical beginnings of this transition in the work concept…..with problems like that to solve, I suspect our youth should elect to party first, second and third and only than should they consider wasting their youth on Australian political dysfunction.

  32. Here we go again. Another slow day on the MB website so a bit of click bait is thrown on the table.

    Rather than debating the real issue of failed public policy we have this crap put up as serious discourse.

    Come on, get real and again here it is –

    • Even StevenMEMBER

      I read it all. All it reinforced for me is that about almost none of the people on that thread (overwhelmingly of the boomer generation) considered the financial burden younger generations are dealing with. Their arguments essentially boil down to broad assertions of ‘it was just as hard – if not harder – back in my day’. Actual hard evidence? Virtually none.

      Thank god for one of the boomer posters at the end who actually went to the trouble of doing some comparisons on key items (houses, cars, need for 2 incomes these days). So yes, not all boomers are ignorant of the predicament the younger generation is in. Just most of them.

      • I wrote you a reply which has been deleted by this site as I posted. Funny that!

        The site I provided is a retirees web site and provides as much evidence as the author provided in this post. The intergenerational meme is a scapegoat for failed public policy over 20 odd years. See and or google intergenerational equity yourself and you will see it’s a complete nonsense.
        The people you should be directing your ire at is the politicians over the last twenty years who have completely ruined the social fabric of Australia for young and old alike. For every struggling young person there is a struggling pensioner living below the poverty line after working their entire lives. For every multi property boomer there is an under 30 year old buying their first investment property.

        I don’t use generalisations because the data is totally unreliable and skewed towards any particular agreement. Instead of arguing between age groups we need to be arguing to have the failed public policies changed.

      • Even StevenMEMBER

        Thanks Malcolm. I do direct (the majority of) my ire at the politicians. But it would be helpful if there was broader acknowledgement amongst boomers (and some in the Gen X age group) that the young people coming through will struggle to enjoy the same standards and security their predecessors had.

        I will have a read through those links, but I have to say many personal experiences I’ve had with older generations suggest they have a poor understanding of the problems (particularly financial and employment related) faced by youth.

      • @Even Steven….

        Where are “consumers” supposedly going to get their information from – ???? – consolidated corporate media which makes Hurst’s Yellow journalism look like amateur hour, this all whilst the privatize everything, too include the biosphere [green econnomics], is repeated ad infinitum by full immersion MSM… as the panacea to everything…. that’s not to forget the assembly line education people get so they can become useful widgets in the Great Market place… which imo is increasingly the “internet of things”…

        This is all made more laborious by the wish that some outlier political party will ride in like the Calvary and save the day, and all one has to do is vote on a special day, then its back to consumerist normalcy. Not that you can build the system architecture w/ institutional knowlage and bargaining power to effect change over a short period of time….

        Disheveled Marsupial…. This is what happens when armchair rationalists engage in thunkit without dealing with the cold hard facts or historical realities… bad case of everyone wants to save the planet or their asses but noone wants to do the dishes…

  33. How Aussie youth can fight off the Boomer war
    No one is going to fight off any one. The reality is that a large segment of the people starting their careers now are investing in properties instead of their first home while they remain in their parents’ home. They understood that the system is rigged and no amount of reason or logic is going to change it. My predictions is that this madness will continue until market forces change things (be it a Chinese hard landing, losing AAA, or something else). An orderly change to rent seeking is very unlikely.

  34. Wow, some things never change.. All you guys making generalisations about young people, guess what, many of your elders said similar things about you and your generation when you were growing up! As fun as it is, let’s all try and stop generalising about young people and boomers. It really doesn’t get us anywhere.

  35. Lets have the election again, lets really give ourselves over to it.

    Let us be bullshit……..

    The Bullshit Manifesto

    What is our policy for the future of Australia – it is bullshit

    Australia is a land of bullshit, and better opportunities to bullshit than anywhere else in the world. In Australia people are free to bullshit, happy with their bullshit, and enjoy bullshit rewards better than most of the human race. There has never been a more exciting time to bullshit for Australians, or to bullshit Australians. The bullshit party is the only way to ensure the bullshit continues. Only Bullshit will ensure that tomorrows Australians are bullshitted more than todays. Vote bullshit.

    This weekend Australians will vote on the flavour of the bullshit they will experience for the next three years, exhorted by bullshit politicians, representing parties who want to bullshit voters, backed by vested interests and corporates who want to bullshit the electorate about the bullshit they already have or are already doing, or the bullshit they want. It will be brought to the attention of Australians though a bullshit media and press, which although it cannot make a profit, is paid to ensure that the bullshit reaching you is the bullshit that someone feels will benefit their bullshit, deploying the finest bullshit commentators and reporters, and running bullshit analysis to ensure that Australians have access to every last skerrick of bullshit coming their way.

    Australia’s institutional framework is a national repository of bullshit, and provides a significant bulwark against anyone seeking change to the way bullshit happens in Australia – from the bullshit of State and Federal politicians and bureaucracies, through to laws and courts which defend the right to bullshit across the breadth of Australian endeavour, with an exactitude which is nothing short of bullshit. It is vital for the bullshit of Australia, that these institutions not only continue to bullshit as they have done, but seek out and engage to further bullshit for future Australians. To lay the foundations of the bullshit of tomorrow, to forecast and shape its form, to allow Australians to choose what bullshit they want, and to bullshit them about how they can achieve that bullshit. This is the promise of bullshit – to take bullshit further, to make bullshit more central, to bring more Australians together around bullshit.

    The bullshit vision

    Our vision is of a world where bullshit is ubiquitous, cheap and affordable. A world where bullshit is efficient and effective, and where the opportunity to bullshit or experience bullshit is a birthright of all Australians, and where Australians from all walks feel that they too are part of the bullshit, that there is bullshit for them, and that they have the opportunity to bullshit, and hand bullshit to their children for their lives and Australia’s future.

    We believe in furthering Australian bullshit no matter how long and hard the bullshit may be. We seek to push bullshit into every crevice and into every sentient moment of our minds. We believe in bullshit from the highest peaks to the oceans depths, from bullshit on the beaches and in the fields, to bullshit in the endless rugged expanses. We will develop our bullshit capability in the North, bullshit across the oceans, and bullshit to new frontiers in space and beyond the stars, seeking out new peoples and lifeforms to bullshit.

    Our vision of a bullshit life is to wake from dreams of bullshit to the sound of bullshit on the radio, interspersed by advertising and news bullshit, promoting a myriad of facets of social bullshit, amounting to economic bullshit, which Australian companies can lever bullshit margins on Australians with. It is Bullshit.

    From there we want Australians to have bullshit on their ways to work, meaningfully experiencing and engaging with bullshit in their chosen careers, feeling bound to a culture of bullshit in their workplaces, where they and their fellow employees and managers are bound by bullshit. With bullshit their efforts can contribute to the bullshitting of Australia and the bequest of bullshit for Australians of tomorrow.

    The bullshit policies

    Economy: The centre of the bullshit for all Australians is in a bullshit economy. Bullshit will leave no stone unturned in building on our bullshit achievements to create an economy which is definitively bullshit. With bullshit for all and a surplus bullshit for future generations and for export. Bullshit of which the rest of the world is rightly admiring and envious. Bullshit which attracts quality bullshit to Australia and builds on the bullshit we have.

    Our economic strategy is to inflate a housing bubble utilising bullshit monetary policy, bullshit land management practices and bullshit credit provided by banks backed by a bullshit budget. From here we believe in bullshitting the entire national economy around this bullshit, with bullshit investment, bullshit trade, and bullshit information management and statistics. Our economic ideology which has withstood the bullshit of time, remains the cultivation of bullshit investment, around the bullshit of trickle-down economics, DSGE, and deregulation, to provide bullshit jobs, so that Australians can pay bullshit taxes – unless they are accessing a bullshit taxation concession……..including

    Negative Gearing bullshit…….. *applause*,
    Capital Gains Tax bullshit…….. *applause*
    Superannuation concession bullshit ……….*applause in unison*
    And the continued bullshit excluding multi-million dollar residences from consideration in access to pensions *applause in unison and standing ovation*

    Only through these policies will Australia’s economy remain bullshit, both now and into the future, bullshit for our children, and bullshit for those who have made Australia the bullshit that it is today. Only through these policies can Australians be the bullshit they vote for when they vote for bullshit.

    Our Budget bullshit will be balanced budget bullshit. We will achieve our balance with the extensive use of bullshit forecasts – from commodity prices, to employment, to wage growth and government revenues – to bullshit conceptual underpinnings such as that enabled by bullshit bubbles driving bullshit receipts, with statistical bullshit further embellishing that balance. That balance will of course continue to bullshit Australians about the bullshit on the revenue side of the budget, which sees spectacular amounts of bullshit concessions costing bullshit billions, while ordinary people are bullshitted with threats about Medicare, education and social welfare costs

    Trade Our trade Bullshit will maintain Australia’s place at the forefront of global free trade bullshit, with Australians bullshitted at length about the benefits it brings, while experiencing bullshit about the jobs it has cost. To this end we will continue the bullshit which has seen Australians get no sight of Free Trade Agreements bullshitted to them by their representatives, of which they have seen nothing but bullshit before they are signed on their behalf, and of which informed economic analysis suggest the outcomes for Australians over the coming generations are baked in bullshit. We will also ensure that the bullshit benefits of these trade agreements are bullshit years into the future and accrue largely to bullshit sectoral interests, or to sectors of the bullshit economy already dominated by international capital so that these may repatriate the benefits to a less bullshit location. We will further commit to ensuring that global companies continue to bullshit Australian taxpayers through their extensive use of transfer pricing and offshore marketing arrangements, in the sale of resources coming from Australia.

    Education: The next generation of Australians needs quality bullshit. We are committed to bullshit education. From bullshit overcrowded primary schools filled with bullshit foreign national children of offshore property speculators, to bullshit discrimination by the federal government against the children of government schools, in favour of bullshit in private schools which already have access to taxation write offs for their parents, through to the bullshit denuding of the vocational education sector in favour of bullshit debt propagation which ultimately the taxpayer will be bullshitted for. From there we remain committed to ensuring that Australia continues to provide bullshit levels of access to courses in sciences, mathematics, engineering and medicine, while promoting bullshit volumes of meaningless courses designed to ensure bullshit levels of debt servicing and bullshit numbers of marginally employed future Australians wondering where the bullshit jobs they thought they were promised have gone to.

    Population: Australia’s bullshit has always been a magnet for migrants from around the world, and our population has been enhanced and diversified through the addition of generations of migrants. Our policy is that Australians continue to bullshit these about the lives they can experience in Australia, while continuing to bullshit existing Australians about the benefits of migration and the role it plays in the economy, in the need for infrastructure, and its role in helping keep asset prices higher through demand from offshore sources of funds. Our population policy will be to extend bullshit visas to anyone from anywhere who can promise to turn up with a suitcase full of bullshit derived cash, or who can transfer such funds into an Australian bank account from whatever bullshit offshore generates it and promise to outbid an existing Australian taxpayer for an Australian house. This will make population growth bullshit, and will be made more so by the complete absence of any economic narrative involving a need for further industry or employees or the slightest indication whatsoever of what all the new migrants will actually do apart from have children who go to school, and bid up small business prices. Of course a bullshit government will be firmly committed to ensuring that corporate Australia can bullshit on visas for employees from offshore whenever they have an inclination to do so, free from the gaze of any regulatory agency. Of course bullshit will see too that Australians know that foreigners arriving from offshore in boats will be bullshitted to Nauru or wherever we can send them, at a bullshit cost to Australian taxpayers, and with bullshit consequences for their lives. Bullshit stands for bullshit population growth and bullshit population and immigration policy!

    Housing: In no field has Australia’s proud history of bullshit been more exemplified than in its bullshitting of Australians about housing. To the point where here in 2016 the price of Australian housing is the most bullshit in the world and will be a bullshit millstone on the economy for generations to come. A bullshit government will ensure that the golden era of housing bullshit will continue for another thousand years, with never declining prices, ever decreasing land sizes, and ever greater building densities in our suburbs. Housing bullshit needs to be sustained through bullshit housing investment, and Australia’s time honoured bullshit for housing investment has been ‘Negative Gearing’ ……*applause* and ‘Negative Gearing’ ……*applause* will be enshrined in our constitution, forever protecting the bullshit which promotes the tax avoiding needs of highly indebted loss making landlords, over the needs of ordinary folk simply wanting a place to live. But Australian housing requires, deserves, our every endeavour for more bullshit. For this reason a bullshit government will promote the opportunity for foreign nationals to launder their moneys free from any requirement to establish the veracity or provenance of those funds, free from the need to establish any connection or commitment to Australia, and free from the need to provide any tangible benefit for Australia whatsoever apart from the creation of inner cities with as much life as a container shipping terminal in the dark. Housing is the centre point of Australian bullshit, its lifeblood and its reason for being. Only with a bullshit government can the quintessentially Australian bullshit on housing be sustained without question, without fear, and without any logic at all

    Men and women of Australia, this is but a bullshit prospectus of the bullshit we can visit on Australia when we are returned to government, and of the bullshit we can festoon you and your loved ones, as well as your heirs for generations to come. We will build a nation of such epic bullshit, bullshit of such legend, so fantastically transformational bullshit that we will be the bullshit of the ages…………… we will be – bullshit!


  36. A war between the different generations is the last thing we need, but of course it’s precisely what one would expect when we’re forced to live under a political system that lives and breathes on manipulated divisiveness. It simply oozes down from the top. Create a platform where the peasants are divided and their focus is diverted away from the important issues – like the future of Australia and its citizens.
    The Westminster political system and all systems similar, have done a fine job of providing quality, accountable leadership throughout the world over the past 40 or so years. Government leaders throughout that period will go down in history and be spoken about for generations – but sadly for all the wrong reasons.
    Wake up citizens, you’re victims of a huge con.
    Earlier, data retention law was passed and no one dare enough to fight against it.
    Data retention law details are here:

  37. The reason the price of housing has gone up is that a house is worth whatever a bank is going to lend against it. Michael Hudson

    • Now whack on incentives from property valuers on up the food chain and presto…. huge bonuses for those at the top of the food chain and risk is hived off to all the sundry….

      Disheveled Marsupial…. see control fraud…

  38. The young generation are screwed, as the immigration intake is diluting their vote. It’s past critical mass now, so the best they can hope for is to skip this country for good. Let it rot.

    • Yep. Or do as MB are suggesting. Start a party, that includes anti population party. Never vote Green like most young do.

    • Now the young are catching on.

      Population growth is your enemy, ergo, Greens are your enemy.

      • Sustainable Australia

        Formerly the Stable Population Party. They want a ‘sustainable’ population through lower immigration. If they actually cared about sustainability they’d be calling for a lower global population, but instead they’re calling for reduced population growth in a country with only 24 million people. Which means that what they are is simply racist.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. yuck… yuck…

      • No skippy. They’re doing what their power allows them to do. They have no power internationally. FFS Skippy. Let the racism BS go. You’re hurting the cause.

      • Even StevenMEMBER

        I completely disagree with your view, Skippy. They are an Australian political party, not a global political party. They seek to influence what they reasonably can.

        I’m generally ok with your comments and logic, but that’s a silly conclusion you’ve come to.

      • Even Steven….

        Check the link, its not my opinion, but just to put it out there logic dictates that its inclusive of – all – and as such has much more power behind it e.g. just saying it should be applicable to Oz will inevitably be seen as racist or xenophobic regardless of intent. So the next line of questioning is how to archive that from an informed position without resorting to the classical remedies of war and starvation….

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        I agree with with almost everything you have to say here Skip,…but does the opinion that the majority of the population (in Australia) would be better off with a lower migrant intake, automatically make one a racist in your eyes? Or are you just trying to stir someone up?

        I voted for the lovely Lyndal (Labor) in the house of reps but gave the Sustainable Australia party my first preference in the Senate instead of my usual Greens first pick (they got second pick) and I am no Racist.

      • You took the words right out of my month, Even Steven. It is indeed a bizarre conclusion. If immigration is used to undermine wages and conditions, or if it hurts a nation’s standard of living, or the environment, then citizens and political parties have every right to speak out. However, we have no right (in my opinion) to impose population policies on other nations or its people. Really, it’s none of our business. Humanity will either find a sustainable path or it won’t, we can only affect change in our little corner.

      • So, post election, I’d like to notify the Greens they should address population growth.

        If they fail, I’ll spend as much time and effort as I have to on social media pretending I’m young, to make sure they have no chance of a seat at subsequent elections.

        I think I’ve turned a number of those that initially called me racist. Good to see.

      • thats the first time i have ever read anything from naked capitalism and it will be the last what a load of bullshit

      • AlbyMangles….

        You have to look at all the work naked capitalism has produced from 06 till now, just because your personal feelings are miffed about one post does not speak for the volumes…. and if that is all that sets you off I’ll remember that when you opine….

        Disheveled Marsupial…. the tribalism above is not encouraging imo…

      • RobW….

        No one is dictating… sheez… Even Steven evoked logic and as I have noted that is – Universal – yet that does not mean that there should not be standards to entrance. Seems like automatic knee jerks abound.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. BTW the quantity theory of labour is as bad as QTM when NAIRU dictates events from the onset…

      • skippy

        Tribalism? Nope, you’re wrong on this skip. Fix the problems you can skippy. Then if you can, move on to the others when you get power.

      • Richard is that supposed to be a reply… fix stuff – ?????

        Disheveled Marsupial… hint… NAIRU says your point is moot….

      • Nauru is a result of morons with power. Those politicians should be in jail, instead many are after another crack tomorrow.

        What do you want to do with them?

        Hey skip, you know I’m not talking about a handful of refugees but an invited skilled and able 300 thousand taking all the opportunity of young Australians?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Formerly the Stable Population Party. They want a ‘sustainable’ population through lower immigration. If they actually cared about sustainability they’d be calling for a lower global population, […]

        They are.

        […] but instead they’re calling for reduced population growth in a country with only 24 million people. Which means that what they are is simply racist.

        That’s an… interesting… definition of racist.

      • Sustainable Australia

        That sounds good right? You love sustainability right? Turns out the sustainability you love is actually just one variety of sustainability and the other one is bizarre and deeply confusing. These guys were formerly known as the slightly more telling Sustainable Population Party, and they purport to stand for a “an economically, environmentally and socially sustainable Australia”, which seems like an oblique way of saying “Rack off, immigrants”.

        It does seem pretty clear they’re trying to mask what is essentially “fuck off, we’re full” bullshit with faux environmental concerns, so maybe if you think this huge empty island has too many people, they might be the party for you, but don’t go voting for them because you think they’re going to spend more on solar panels or hemp t-shirts.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. should just call it the Malthusian Party…. drama being it confuses population with outcomes and not the ideology with allows immigration dramas e.g. does fuck all to address the fundamental issues…. might as well move back to Arizona and vote for the wall….

      • You been on the sauce tonight skip?

        You can populate this island skip and go down with the rest of the world or we can keep it the one habitable place.

        Not a hard choice IMO.

        They’re scientists skip. Not rednecks.

      • Skippy, conversations around economic theory are fine, but when it comes to voting I’m more concerned with my experiences. E.g how do I get my employer to pay me a livable wage when he has half a dozen new Australians on the books who are willing work for less than the minimum wage? I don’t begrudge them the work, and they’re all nice blokes, but i simply don’t know how they work for so little money. I’d quit and get another job, but there is not much work in my area. I don’t know who’ll I’ll vote for, but If i do vote for the Sustainable Australis party it won’t be because of racism (real or perceived), it will be becuase I’m hurting (much like many sh1t kickers around the world).

      • @above…

        Until you deal with the decades of fundamental econnomic dramas population reduction is weak tea… same core aspects drive events regardless of immigration, in fact the immigration is a result of the fundamentalism…

        Disheveled Marsupial… you don’t fix a 10 point problem by fixation on one aspect imo…

        PS. you want to treat labour like a commodity and then wonder why…. it sux….

      • “PS. you want to treat labour like a commodity and then wonder why…. it six….”

        Personally I don’t like any living thing being treated like a commodity, but i take your point.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Disheveled Marsupial…. should just call it the Malthusian Party…. drama being it confuses population with outcomes and not the ideology with allows immigration dramas e.g. does fuck all to address the fundamental issues…. might as well move back to Arizona and vote for the wall….

        Clearly neither you nor the two other people’s opinions you’ve copy-pasted have cast even a superficial eye over the SAP policy platform.

      • drsmithy….

        “Clearly neither you nor the two other people’s opinions you’ve copy-pasted have cast even a superficial eye over the SAP policy platform.”

        I the onus is on you to unpack that and provide the argument which both refutes the JG perspective and vindicates the UBI assertions… Just – saying – people have not looked at UBI in depth or delved into SAP policy is not sufficient. SAP does not effect the fundamental changes highlighted in the link wrt full employment or core economic changes in the labour market i.e. please show me 24 Qtr where there is even a market for labour or are you still pro the gig sharing technolibertarian slack fix.

        Disheveled Marsupial…. again the copy-pasta thingy is a milquetoast rebuttal…

    • That list looks like basically every occupation in Australia…what a rort. This looks like a self-feeding loop, the more people we let in the more jobs we need to open up to support the new people, and so on and so on.

      What a sellout our politicians are.

  39. You know what.
    This is a fucking war.
    A war instigated in stealth by the boomers.
    They know that by not speaking up and raising the issues that directly affect youth, that it contributes to maintaining the status quo for them – that is, the complete consumption of everything gluttonous that will be the legacy of boomers.
    They will get off Scott-free.
    They will have a pension all courtesy of their impoverished youth,
    They will have a great retirement living it up and sucking as much rent out of our kids as they can.
    They are the fucking enemy of our kids.
    6 feet under can’t come soon enough.

    • Even StevenMEMBER

      I don’t think it is ‘war’. But I do think a significant level of complacency (wilful blindness?) is a contributing factor. It’s easy for boomers to say ‘just work harder’ when they are saying so from a position of privilege.

  40. This Skippy character….well…needless to say….not only exemplifies his baby boomer self-centred cohort, but is seriously a dated irrelevant and indeed dishevelled marsupial.

    “….with only 24 million….”….yes. May we remind this smartass that Australia is far from a United States.

    And it is not racist to speak the truth about the lowering of living standards in Australia thanks to overcrowded cities, more people competing for less jobs, busted infrastructure that is ill-equipped to handle the masses etc etc.
    Have your fucking Big Australia in your back yard you moronic idiot.
    You are dated.
    A slave to political correctness.
    A fake.
    Speak the populist bullshit all you like.
    Australian cities are fast becoming ghettos you fool.
    As you sit on your fat arse sipping cocktails spinning your long-winded hot air pieces that only impress the owner of its thought.
    Be gone boomer.

    • I’m a human being fuckwit… so you can cram all your rhetorical pigeonholing and compartmentalization up your ignorant ass…

      Disheveled Marsupial…. I don’t confuse mental personality disorders with intelligence wing nut or rambling diatribes from rank ideological apparatchiks from Cato nor Heritage that can’t think for themselves….

      • You are a complete and utter knob.
        And anyone who has had the misfortune of traversing any of your verbage would agree.
        For a baby boomer to refute so vehemently what is undeniable is actually much worse than a fuckwit, but an absolute perfect representation of that same disgusting group that wishes to deny the bullshit that you fucks have done to this country and its youth.
        So call me whatever you like Cretan. It won’t even touch the sides but just reinforce your longing to defend to the bitter end the indefensible. Quite sad in its transparency really.
        The truth is that you fucks leave an Australia much worse for youth than what you were left. And what a great legacy that is. The generation that can never do anything wrong, proud in its achievements of screwing youth up the arse.
        The truth about you baby boomers is that you have been the most selfish representation of human beings that our kids should look down on. Good riddens. Your generation are gluttonous pigs that epitomise the worst traits in human beings – self-centredness, deniers of fallability, self-centredness, parallel universe, the me generation. It’s all about YOU, and what YOU can get, and take and take from the next hens. In your world you can do no wrong. So spare us the human being shit.
        You and your boomer bullshit – piss off. Give our youth a go.

      • And some people wank on about me being incoherent…. hint wing nut…. econnomics of over 50 years is where you should direct your ire… you might read up on neoliberalism, third way, washington consensus or ordoliberalism, but naw you’re knuckle dragging brain can only – see – Boomers….

        Like voting really matters when endemic corruption, corporatism, and multi-transnationals have more say in events than spectator democracy…

        Disheveled Marsupial… ignorance is not your friend… try getting a more nuance historical perspective before opening your gob… makes you look like an ass hat….

      • Geez steernorth, Gen X ushered in the Howard era, have connived at everything neoliberal since, and now it’s proven to be a crock, are blaming everyone but themselves.

        It’s over steernorth. We are onto you. The longer it goes on and the more yo deny gen x complicity, the more hypocritical you look.

        Now it’s a gen x Treasurer and Finance Minister at the controls. How much longer before your kids are going to be demanding explanations from you? What are you going to say when they ask you wtf YOU did? Do you think “I got angry on the internet” or “It’s grandma and grampa’s fault – they made me do it.” is going to wash when they ask you for explanations.

        Your only hope is to stop avoiding responsibility, and start looking at the real reasons why things have turned out this way.

        It was started by Thatcher and Reagan, and continues to this day. Intergenerational bs is just a distraction which you are buying into. To your detriment when your kids start, rightly, giving you a bollocking for your part in all this.

      • “Like voting really matters when endemic corruption, corporatism, and multi-transnationals have more say in events than spectator democracy…”

        I see voting as an act of harm minimisation. Voting for x, y or z may not seriously challenge the existing global power structures, but we can vote to improve people’s lives within the existing system. Eventually the system will collapse under its own greed and stupidity. Until then we might as well try and ensure people are healthy, sheltered and well educated.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Obtuse fellow that he can be, Skippy is one of the Good guys Northy and more “on your side” than you realise.
      He clearly wants to see a fairer and more just situation in this Country, just as much as you do, and he obviously spends some conciderable time calling out the corruption he believes is the root cause of our democracies failure to reprensent all of our interests, including the interests of the Young.

      Now He dosent have all the answers (nobody does), but his analysis and grip of our political/economic reality is spot on,…and it worth taking the time to read and decipher his shit, it really will help you understand how and why your stsndard of living feels so under attack.

      Skipps your ally Northy, even if you dont like eachother,…so try and show some manners and respect, for a fellow traveler.

  41. “does fuck all to address the fundamental issues….”

    Maybe, but it’s making existing issues all the more painful.

  42. Charles Ponzi

    Divide and conquer. The real enemy is not baby boomers but Central Bankers (of all ages).

    • Central banks have zero intrinsic agency or are you arguing that everything was swell before central banks or central banks have had the same effect over the entire period in question. Then you have to deal with the greatest era of prosperity ever was during the central bank timeline and it was only after the dominate economics of the 70s did things start to revert to more traditional outcomes.

      Disheveled Marsupial…. again history does not support the proposition as dominate economic ideology has been the driver of events in all spheres of private and government policy formation….

  43. “….It’s over steernorth. We are onto you. …” Errrrrr….ok, great. I’m happy for you. It sounds like you are definitely on something and onto some vague obscure path.

    Please articulate where I’ve denied gen X complicity? They are nearly as big a knobs as their predecessors – not quite, but close. So you’re wrong on that.

    “…… How much longer before your kids are going to be demanding explanations from you? ….”

    That is a day I am so looking forward to. If that seems bizarre, to you is understandable as you lack the insight into my endeavours for change in a growingly fucked-up country. Your shallow assessment can only be constructed from this one source viz.MB, so I’ll forgive your depleted picture.

    “.,,,Your only hope is to stop avoiding responsibility, and start looking at the real reasons why things have turned out this way…..”

    You are being silly now.

    “”””To your detriment when your kids start, rightly, giving you a bollocking for your part in all this.”. What a weird comment. Hey, if I get a flogging from my kids, it won’t be because we have property, or consume aged care like there’s no tomorrow, or open the floodgates to immigration to burden our healthcare system and increase the welfare bill, or because my wife and I have turned our backs on our kids. It’ll be something else.

    My kids will most likely say “Daddy, why were those older Australians self-centred and why did they choose to turn their backs on younger people when those same people had amassed the most wealth and most political influence?”

    And they will be saying these words from a land other than the place of their birth.