Waleed Aly crushes Turnbull on negative gearing

The Project’s Waleed Aly is a national treasure. On last night’s program he ran the above segment completely demolishing the Turnbull Government’s support of negative gearing and the capital gains tax (CGT) discount.

One particularly interesting slice from the video is the below graphic, which shows that Malcolm Turnbull’s own electorate of Wentworth is the biggest user of negative gearing, whereas all of the top 10 electorates are held by the Liberals, most of which are high income areas. So it is no coincidence that they support the tax lurks – they are merely pandering to their electorates rather than governing for the nation.

ScreenHunter_12729 Apr. 28 09.43

I highly recommend that you watch the video in full. Aly skillfully shows that Prime Minister Turnbull has ‘jumped the shark’ on this issue.

Note: The above segment was co-written by Tom Whitty (Supervising Producer) and Waleed Aly

Unconventional Economist


  1. sydboy007MEMBER

    I’m honestly shocked that Turnbull has gone so far down the loon pond river. Surely he knows how factually wrong what he’s saying is.

    Being a merchant banker he’s got no soul left, nor a heart, so he’s basically sold his self respect for a stint as PM. It’s not like he needs the money, or the houses, so I’m left wondering what he’s getting out of it????

    That goofy grin on ScoMo is horror movie scary. Cousin Sco, he’s not been right since the time the gattors nearly got him. Sure knows how to hunt with a rambo bow and skin the kill.

      • It’s a symptom of the libs really.

        I was never one to rush to the PMT circle jerk, I was quite reserved and panned his performance as opposition leader during Rudd Mk1… but I could nenver imagine he would be this poor.

        Someone here said it best in reflection.

        He is, as you say, as poster child of the FIRE sector. He speaks on innovation but his entire life has been anti-innovation. What would he know about it.

        Much like George Brandis handling 18C…. his view was to preserve free speech via “people have a right to be a bigot”.

        I can tell what he’s trying to say, but he defended it so poorly. it’s because deep down, as a Liberal party member, thus wannabe tyrant, he actually doesn’t believe in free speech.

        Unimpeded speech for himself personally perhaps, but not free speech. Thus the gaffe.

    • Josh MoorreesMEMBER

      sociopaths crave power for powers sake. He doesn’t need to get anything financially out of it to be driven to rule. If he doesn’t have these policies the right would roll him over for abbott again so he’ll do what all good politicians do and sell out whoever he needs to in order to stay in power.

      • Spot on! yet people cannot seem to get their minds around this. I’m not too worried though, I’m sure whoever knifes the next PM in the back to take power will be the ‘true’ saviour…

      • http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

        Altemeyer touches on it in the above book called the authoritarians.

        Yet it is also about denial of mortality – and many people want to raise themselves above mere mortals so that they can convince themselves that they don’t need to deal with death.

        The easiest way to do this is to treat others like shit, or put yourself above others.

        I recently worked on a start-up which is going to be very successful and make the owners into billionaires. What I found was that the two major shareholders were certainly manipulative assholes who chainsmoked, yet at any opportunity treated people around them including cornerstone investors with contempt and disdain. What was most fascinating was what they were doing wiith the money that was due to come in the door – they wanted to go live in far off tax havens, and basically had worked out which family members were getting what from the trusts they had set up. They sought control, power etc. yet lacked humility and insight into overcoming the trappings of greed. I think with MT and others, you can see that they are beholden to interests; and a large part of that interest that they can’t let go of is there own. It’s like many of these people have their hand stuck in the cookie jar.

        I’m also a member of a club at the MCG which is known for snootiness. Overheard a member referring to the AFL football players last week as ‘magnificent animals’. I’d say that there is a very upper crust British element of snobbery that drives stupidity across the world. Once again, there is a clear disdain of fellow human beings by those who have the illusion of power. To me it is a core reason that we are following a path of destruction. Forget e=mc2, we need to work out how to develop and promote leaders who are humble, embracing, strong in the face of greed brokers and honest.

      • Today's Empire Tomorrow's Ashes

        young ok, have you read MFC Demon’s take on blogspot on the weekend’s tribulations. He is a wrap for the Bugger!

      • TETA, haven’t read the blogpost, however it’s pretty bloody Victorian, pls share the link if you care!

    • Turnbull is clearly trying to throw the election.
      But punters dont be fooled, vote this mob back in, we aren’t done with em yet.

      • “Turnbull is clearly trying to throw the election.”

        I disagree. There’s no way his ego would allow him to deliberately lose an election after overthrowing a first term PM and be forever condemned in Liberal Party history.

        If he thought an election win would be a poisoned chalice (and I don’t think any politician believes that about any election) then we would have picked a massive policy fight with the RWNJs and then resigned “as I can’t in good conscience compromise my principles solely to retain power”.

      • But punters dont be fooled, vote this mob back in

        Idiotic comment! We cannot afford more years of prevarication on carbon pollution! FFS

      • WW – that’s really verging on conspiracy – ie no logical evidence to back it up – which is unlike you.

        What is more likely is that they realise that keeping their donors happy is their number one priority, and then winning the election is number 2.

        Don’t be blinded by useless narratives. The world isn’t in full blown crisis because good hearted people enter politics. Donors choose and control politicians. What we are seeing no less is representatives of companies etc talking about what they are going to put in place.

        Whether the interests of donors benefits different groups of voters is neither here nor there.

        What needs to be said is that any loyalty from rich voters to donors and political parties who they believe represent their interests is sheer delusion on the part of voters. If for any reason they aren’t rich, then they would be jettisoned as fast as a pizza at an antipizza rally.

        The smoke and mirrors refracts in many directions. Yet losing elections is not what this game is about. This game is about having as much power at all times as possible. If you believe otherwise, then you may have a few assumptions to revisit.

      • I dont think Turnbull is trying to throw the election.His ego wouldn’t stand for it.

        And even if he was, the punters look like they are going to vote him in again regardless.

      • “Turnbull is clearly trying to throw the election.”

        That’s assuming Australia is not a nation of winging rent-seekers who will fight tooth-and-nail to hang on to their NG-boosted economic rents.

        That would be a false assumption.

    • @sydboy007. People make all sorts of “compromises” for what they seek, yearn, desire. The extent of compromise is generally a function of a person’s moral and ethical fibre.

      The office of PM has always been a long held ambition of MT. In his wife’s words…
      “Politically, she describes herself as “small-l liberal” – “I was disturbed when Malcolm joined the Liberal Party” – and says she thinks she has been instrumental in her husband’s relinquishing his political ambitions (he once wanted to be Prime Minister) on the grounds that the personal costs to family life are too high.”

      And this…

      “Even in the early days, he had the fire of ambition in his breast. In the mid-1970s, Turnbull, then 21, and radio broadcaster David Dale were seeing two women from the same house. This led to a fascinating exchange in the early hours. Both men, with towels around them, found themselves tiptoeing to the bathroom at the same time. Turnbull, whom Dale knew only as “Malcolm the Footballer” because of his solid frame, announced to Dale he wanted to be Prime Minister by the time he was 40.

      “For which party?” asked Dale.

      “It doesn’t matter,” responded Malcolm the Footballer.”

      I find the above article from 25 years ago provides an excellent prism by which to view the MT of today.

    • “Surely he knows how factually wrong what he’s saying is.”

      Of course he knows. But what he (and the party) have misjudged is the feeling among many that it’s time to curb the ng rort. How many is yet to be determined, but he must have thought his smooth-talking lies would be swallowed hook, line and sinker. Yet he can’t back down now, so he’s really got no choice but to persist with the lies.

      • “Yet he can’t back down now, so he’s really got no choice but to persist with the lies.”

        ^^^ This. And if the polling continues to slide, the lies will get more and more pathetic in a positive feedback loop.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        And they’d be right. Waleed is an economic terrorist.

        Oh, that Pickering bloke too. Any chance he’s got dual citizenship? We could be rid of him as well.

      • “the haters were out in droves for Waleed after SMH posted this story.”

        Judging by comments I’ve read over the years I think Waleed stirs the same emotions in conservatives as Bolt does in progressives. I do worry that he might actually get bumped off one day!

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Now Rob, that raises an interesting point. Who gets bumped off more often, progressives or conservatives?

      • waleed’s job is to bring in ratings for the project. he has absolutely succeeded not just in Australia, yet at the global level with his pieces. it’s more likely that it is the ten management team who will be raked over the coals for letting content like this fly. the project know their audience. It ain’t the cashed up negative gearer, it’s the young gen who are getting fucked over everyday. the numbers dont lie, and this is why we are going to see more and more content that appeals to the gen that needs to ask why

    • Looks like they are anti-immigration.

      There are already anti-immigration parties like Sustainable Australia.

      If we stop mass immigration and enforce the laws, house prices will fall.

      So these parties need to preference each other or merge.

    • unfortunately can’t join as with the maths party who aren’t running this election.

      would encourage others to sign up tho just to see what happens

      • The Affordable Housing Party only needs another 71 new members to register for the election now and we’re picking up new members nearly every time I refresh the page!
        -Affordable Housing Party co-convenor and NSW lead Senate Candidate Andrew Potts

      • Andrew, not sure if that was addressed to me or the group

        Can say, that there is more to the world’s problems than affordable housing.

        Yet Mazlow was not wrong when he says that affordable shelter, food, electricity and security are needed for any society to prosper.

  2. Turnbull can’t even give a coherent response to Leigh Sales questions. I think he knows he’s bullshitting everyone, and it’s not easy to project group think when it’s so obviously flawed. Aly and co have the knack of putting things in a simple way even the average Joe can understand. I think he will be running for Labor in the next few years.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Nah, it’s just that the LNP are easy to mock right now. Reckon deep down he’s a conservative type.

    • The Project use animations – which really help.

      Be it talking about a highway accident or house prices.

      The old media just talk.

      4 Corners did a whole episode about coal but never mentioned the price of coal once!

      It is apparently against old-media rules to bring up a graph.

    • Tassie TomMEMBER

      I loved the bit where Turnbull schooled Leigh Sales on the principles of supply and demand. It’s a bloody big country Mal – it’s not like we’re running out of land.

  3. Now he needs to do a segment exposing the LNP scare campaign on the ALP/GRN proposed environmental policies…

  4. Awesome stuff from Aly. That was right out of Fawlty Towers from Turnbull – total cringe …

    Turnbull is a train wreck.

  5. One of my measurements for if someone is making the right noises is how much the WWWASPSs (Wealthy, White, Worried Anglo Saxon Protestants) complain about him at work. These are the type that think they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps with their free education and their early 80s housing prices and quite often precede observations with “I’m not racist, but….’
    Over the past year the leader of the group has grumbled about this Waleed chap on multiple occasions. This can only be a good thing.

    • The WASPs have certainly made a killing on their PPoRs. But, I don’t think Anglo people are using NG any more than non-Anglo people.

      • I know that it is not only the Anglos who are taking advantage of the current set up. My profession is very WASP heavy. I spend a lot of time around grumpy old white guys who are relatively, to very, well off and believe that the world is conspiring against them.

      • There are a lot of people who don’t agree with the Islamic council of Victoria on many issues. Ali is not without his own agenda.

      • “Ali is not without his own agenda.”

        Agenda matters when you have power, e.g. the prime minister. When you don’t have power, your only influence is arguments.

      • What if the agenda is to get power? The Islamists usually act though the left. You will seldom see Ali support the lnp.

      • Then if you’re in power you no longer have any further agenda.

        No. If your agenda is to get into power then it still doesn’t matter what your agenda is if you’re not in power. Voters aren’t going to vote for you simply because you want to be in power.

    • “I’m not racist, but….’

      You use that as a slur to those that express, while lacing your post with racist attitudes towards anglos….

      Seriously, look at property development, look at the developers, the people in charge, their names end with vowels.

      Look how corrupt NSW got under the last ALP government….

      Della Bosca

      Mediterranean style names….

      Mediterranean style government….

      Let go of hating white people man, it’s bad for your soul.

      • I don’t hate the white man.
        I myself am a WASP.
        Above, I am referring to a group of people within the WASPs.
        Draw a Ven diagram, one big circle for White people, two smaller circles inside, one for men and one for women.
        Now, inside the Men’s circle, draw one for WASPs,
        I’m in there, “Hello RP”.
        Now inside that we add the Wealthy and Worried, which is not exclusive to this group, but it is who I’m discussing in the above post.
        And, the “I’m not racist, but” characteristics don’t just sit within what I observe,
        I’ll grant that, but the group of people I’m referring to have the above traits.
        I also know wealthy whites who don’t think instantly say ‘It’s PC gone mad!’ whenever something that is different and challenges their view pops up.

        Waleed Ally often challenges the group I’m referring to.
        While I don’t pretend that they have not had any personal challenges, they’ve had a nice run.
        When this is bought up to them they get on the defensive and claim that if everyone just did as they did then all would be good.
        They can not fathom that anyone has it any harder then white males growing up in Australia.
        These are the people I’m referring to.

        And while I’m rather blunt in regard to them, I don’t think they are evil or bad, they just have their mind frozen at a certain point in time.
        The world has changed and they haven’t needed to.
        Now they might be forced to look around and update a few assumptions about the world.
        It will be interesting to see if they can.

      • “I don’t hate the white man.
        I myself am a WASP.”

        White guilt inspired self loathing is a thing. Your extensive dribbling to justify your racism only reinforces this.

      • ““I don’t hate the white man.
        I myself am a WASP.”

        White guilt inspired self loathing is a thing. Your extensive dribbling to justify your racism only reinforces this.”

        Nice to see you read my whole post, took in its points and responded to them.

        I don’t feel guilty for being white, it is as daft as feeling guilty for being 1.69m tall.
        I’m just not oblivious to the fact that I’ve had a pretty good run at life because I’m a WASP in Australia.

      • I think it has more to do with being in Australia, and the WASP-ish element being coincidental.

        Other than aboriginals, virtually everyone has had opportunity.

        Conversely, many at the bottom of the pile are WASP’s.

        There’s no privileged, unearned uplift for being a white male in this country.

      • I don’t think much of deprecating an argument because the person putting it forward has a skin colour, including white.

  6. sydboy007MEMBER

    domain just emailed me a great one



    has resort style facilities, so you can bet the strata fees are towards $10K a year.

    • You are right of course. Unless your intent is to have rent set at levels that are affordable by unemployed mining sector (or related industry employees) I would in fact give Brisbane a miss. When does advertising puffery become outright misrepresentation?

    • IN 2016, the dumb Syd/Melb money will buy off the plan in Brisbane.

      In 2018, the smart money will be picking those places up for a bargain.

      • Ive been saying two years from now for 12 years. Been wrong for 12 years. Its getting kind of depressing how long this bubble has been going on for.

      • “Syd/Melb money will buy off the plan in Brisbane”

        Interesting that some suburbs in SE Queensland peaked in 2008 while Melbourne just kept marching upwards until 2010. Some of those SE Queensland suburbs still haven’t reached their 2008 peak. Eight years with no capital gain? Not sure much of Syd/Melb money will be interested in that. Always some gullible people though.

  7. Malcolm Turnbull turns out to be just another spineless politician. His maiden speech gave such hope that this guy was actually going to be different. What a disappointment.
    Honestly never thought I would be saying this but, for the first time in my life I will be voting ALP.

  8. ceteris paribus

    Wow. I hadn’t seen the clip before. Waleed does a demolition job on Malcolm. Malcolm has got himself to blame. We were all prepared to love him before he threw in his lot with the loon pond.

    • Yeah, well I think he didn’t so much throw in with the loon pond as try to survive in a party full of low IQ turnip heads like Dutton and Abbortt. And that’s his mistake. He should have joined the ALP

      • I don’t think that he should have joined the ALP, if he was sincere and the self-made go-getter he believes he is he would have started his own. He realised that his best bet of being with PM was with the Liberal party. He succeeded, and congratulations to him for that. He is now finding out, like Rudd did previously, that just because you are among a group of people does not make you one of them. the same thing would have happened to him across at the ALP. His best move was putting Morrison in as treasurer straight away.
        It would have been golden if he had made Abbott minister for the environment left him out of the leadership group, forced him to peruse evidence based policies that use the market to their advantage.

      • You guys have no idea what you are talking about. Dutton is a potato.

        I do think it’s obvious that I have eaten things that are smarter that Dutto.

      • Splitting hairs (heirs if one were to go for the pun but I know this blog is far too high brow for that, sniff) MB.

        Brussel sprouts are part of the cabbage family after all, best thought of as mini cabbages.

  9. Watching this reminded me again of when we bought our house. At the end of the bidding all the families were long gone and just two boomers that lived in the same street were there – they didn’t want my family to have a home they wanted to rent-seek off us.

  10. I don’t care for Waleed. He comes across as a shill for whoever is paying him to front the project! Seriously WTF is ‘The Project” ?? A diluted version of news and current affairs designed to manipulate public opinion on everything; housing, economics, politics, film, Port Arthur, etc. A panel of hosts for everyone; pretty vacuous female nodding her head and throwing in contrary one liners then laughing to negate any content, smart, young, educated Waleed (an obvious TV minority who gets to be the dog with a bone, a right little terrier & rip apart any guest whose opinion they do not care to hear however will pretend to give airtime) the gapped tooth larrikin moron with a wife & child so all those suckered into mortgage suffering can relate – wow because even people on TV struggle financially) and an old person / slash boomer media player from way back who can remember events that happened before the rest of the hosts were born so his opinion carries more weight than everyone else. His role is to patronize & dismiss! The Project gives its viewer something simple to talk about and nothing to think about – pathetic – glad I dumped my TV 18 months ago and only catch this drivel free on the internet!

    • So you don’t like ‘The Project’. Now, what do you disagree with in regard to the points that were raised in the piece?

      • @ footsore I don’t disagree with anything that was said in the segment. In fact there was nothing said that I did not already know or had not researched since 2005. There was nothing said that MB has not covered. In fact there was nothing Waleed said that could not have been raised on The Project anytime in recent years. All the information has been available on the internet and to Channel 9 or 7 researchers ( oops I don’t know who airs this tripe) Lets face it Waleed did not put all this info together on his own – many people are involved in research & editing and deciding what goes to air & who gets to tell (front the story) so I’m sceptical at the timing and delivery of this message. Waleed gets paid to deliver a snappy message in easily digested sound-bites with distracting soundtrack. He said himself he is not going to say any more about neg gearing – it is simple – so if it is so simple and Waleed is so passionate for everyone to know this why has he not raised the issue earlier? Despite him delivering a succinct message about Neg gearing I have little admiration for Waleed – he is a media puppet – nothing more – who is pulling his strings??

      • “there was nothing Waleed said that could not have been raised on The Project anytime in recent years”

        “Waleed did not put all this info together on his own”

        Why do you make straw man arguments?

        “who is pulling his strings??”

        Maybe you should read a bit more about Aly before putting up tiresome hypothesising about his motivations.

      • @ Bendy wire
        Ha Ha or should I LOL (I’m not that young) at your assumption.
        Not even close. I’m young, I rent, I work full time, I don’t own investment properties, I do not and have never owned shares, I do not have wealthy parents, I’m single, I’m sceptical of MSM, I like old people, I believe Neg gearing is an unfair tax break & I don’t have a penis.

    • The Project is also watched by lot of people that don’t read between lines. And Aly is like a torch in a dark tunnel for this group. I am sure he just got lot of people at least to ask some questions around NG and CGT.
      And he is right.

    • you need a 101 in how media loyalty works

      a couple of pieces like this that appeal to the moral core, then allows them to manipulate same at any time as moral crowd assign loyalty to the project, not to the messages that they are espousing.

      when you call it for what it is – strategic manipulation through emotional, cognitive and subliminal entanglement, you’ll be in a better place to move on

    • “Seriously WTF is ‘The Project” ”

      You have to see The Project in the context of a very sick media landscape. There are bright spots, but not much of the media in Australia is fit for consumption the days. I mean if you shine a critical spotlight on the ABC and News Corp there are plenty of things not to like there too.

      • When I was at primary school, in the late 80s, we were often made to watch a current affairs show for children called ‘Behind the News’. It explained the what and why of news stories to us. ‘The Project’ is very similar. As is ‘Hack’ on jjj. It is a shame that these shows are generally aimed at younger people as I don’t know anyone who knows everything and wouldn’t gain something from this type of program.

      • “When I was at primary school, in the late 80s, we were often made to watch a current affairs show for children called ‘Behind the News’.”

        Yeah, same here. Do they still have Behind the News for kids?

        “It is a shame that these shows are generally aimed at younger people as I don’t know anyone who knows everything and wouldn’t gain something from this type of program.”


      • When I first saw ‘The Project’ 5+ years ago I made this exact same comparison to Behind the News (being a child of the early 90s). Taking complex issues and jamming them into 90 seconds to explain them to a bunch of 10 year olds. It’s alright for 10 year olds but it’s a worry when grown adults take this for serious news. Waleed Aly’s comments here were spot on though and they gave him 6 minutes to explain.

        My girlfriend teaches Year 3 and apparently they still watch ‘BtN’ each week.

      • yeah, i remember watching behind the news, and really liked that segment where they explained how banks aren’t financial intermediaries yet created credit out of thin air using double blind accounting, life changing.

      • @ Glamb So I see Waleed was a journalist before moving up the ranks to Project Puppet. SMH offered up footage of Dame Edna putting Little Wally in his place last night – think that will pretty much dilute his message. Of course Australian public under influence of MSM need an elderly white male “comic” dressed in women’s clothing to make it clear that Little Wally is not to be taken seriously & somewhere in the video & reporting (on a TV show segment – we should all be asking WTF?) it also mention that Barry Humphries AKA Dame!!! Edna doesn’t really like Malcolm but he is good man for the job – says it all to me. Waleed unfortunately for him is just a side show to the big boys who call the shots even if they’re frocked up as badly dress old lady – remarkably like the Queen.

  11. My admiration of Waleed continues to grow! If you have the opportunity to listen to him on ABC Radio The Minefield you should.
    Whoever suggested political aspirations might be onto something. There is a spark of a ‘brown Paul Keating’ about him. A substantial intellect connected with a sharp and incisive wit, able to communicate complex subjects in laymans terms.

      • Today's Empire Tomorrow's Ashes

        Because Keating would have eviscerated him?

        And that’s why Waleed is far superior.

        Pre-Copernicun Obscurantist is brilliant, no doubt, but he could also just be a mean pr!ck.

  12. The fascinating thing is that Malcolm could have killed this issue stone dead 6 weeks ago and he would now have been sailing to an increased majority in the reps and control of the senate.
    Why Malcolm Why?

    • Surely by now you would have realised malcolm is not in charge. And the RWNJ would never allow Turnbull to kill this issue.

    • Terror Australis

      Exactly. They had a chance to blunt all these attacks by going with the piss-weak NG reform options that were floated a few months ago. I think the plan was to cap NG deductions at $20,000 or something like that.
      It would have made little real impact on the market or budget revenue but had the attraction of at least “appearing” to take this thing seriously.

      Had your chance. And blew it, MT.

  13. reusachtigeMEMBER

    There’s a lot of ugly people on this blog who haven’t been successful enough in life to get rich off housing investment.

    • Welcome back… We have been missing our eye candy the last few days.

      How was your study at Center for Kids Who Can’t Read Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too?

    • “There’s a lot of ugly people on this blog”

      At least you got rich off housing presumably.

  14. Turnbull and Morrison have made a huge tactical error by not touching NG at all. Presumably to keep the property lobby and their core voters on side.

    Had they proposed an alternative policy – say, capping claimable losses at $15-20K – they could have sold the message that they were dealing with “excesses by the wealthy”, but leaving it open for “Mum and Dad” investors to utilize NG as they wished without being forced to go down the more complex route of building a new dwelling.

    “Hey, we’re the Liberals so we believe in choice, but we also believe in fairness”.

    Instead we’re getting a laughable scare campaign that is rapidly putting swinging voters right off the Coalition, if the polls are anything to go by.

    • Had they proposed an alternative policy – say, capping claimable losses at $15-20K – they could have sold the message that they were dealing with “excesses by the wealthy”, but leaving it open for “Mum and Dad” investors to utilize NG as they wished without being forced to go down the more complex route of building a new dwelling.

      I doubt it was an easy decision, to do nothing. I suspect there were some raised voices. 😮

    • The Liberals are going the same way as their United Australia Party predecessor. UAP were little more than a front for a business group called “The Union”, which was similar to the BCA.

      UAP worked on a laizzez-faire ideology and assumed that what was good for big business (and the wealthy few at the top of that food chain) was good for society as a whole. That little Great Depression thingy broke this assumption and the UAP collapsed, with Menzies’ Prime Ministership meeting an undignified end.

      But Menzies was a tenacious fellow and reflected well on what went wrong before founding The Liberal Party. Although still a staunch capitalist and believer in small government, Menzies realized the need to cultivate what we now call “middle Australia”, with home ownership and empowering of small business as cornerstones of a sustainable society. Focus on exactly how to empower middle Australia differed between Labor and Liberals but the belief that government policy should encourage home ownership and break the existing system of the land owning minority and renting majority was absolutely bipartisan.

      Measured by even Menzies standards, the current Liberals are a disgrace.

      • “the belief that government policy should encourage home ownership and break the existing system of the land owning minority and renting majority was absolutely bipartisan”

        Almost entirely true but there were a few communist-leaning Labor Party members (maybe MPs but I can’t remember) who said home ownership turned people into “petty capitalists” or something like that. But that’s communism for you.

  15. Good clip except for the claim that Labor’s policy only allows negative gearing to continue for new builds, when it can continue to occur for established property when offset against non-salary/wage income.

    • If you have non-wage income, it means you are investing in something that’s productive, so I say by doing that you deserve to claim negative gearing. Otherwise you are just a dumb speculator/gambler that deserve what’s coming to you.

      • Pretty soon you would be negative gearing those bank shares as well…

        Besides, if they load up on bank shares, they not only have half as much to speculate on properties, they are also investing in their own funding source for the negative gearing properties, so it’s only fair they NG away.

  16. Waleed has done a great job on negative gearing, and MB has too. But more could be done to sell this to conservative and swinging voters.

    A rarely mentioned point is that negative gearing violates a core conservative principle – small government.

    Negative gearing diverts tax dollars from everybody and distributes that money to a select few, who use that money primarily for unproductive purposes – so financially, negative gearing is a “big government” policy.

    It is also big government from a social perspective, because it reaches into every community in Australia by incentivising people to NOT live in their own house, and instead live in a rented property. I think its disgusting that government policy is biasing how people decide to arrange their lives and it is a classic example of where conservative principles applied properly make good sense, but they have been twisted to serve vested interests.

    • Today's Empire Tomorrow's Ashes

      LOL, dude.

      Since when did these people’s principles take primacy over maximising their wealth?

      • About half Australia’s population will either vote directly for the coalition, or will vote for a party that eventually directs its preferences to the coalition. I’m not saying you are doing this at all, but your comment could be interpreted this way: one of the biggest problems with the political discourse is when people make no attempt to understand why people think the way they do, and instead imply its because others are stupid or immoral. Ironically, that behaviour is stupid, immoral and arrogant.

        Yes there are vested interests and corrupt people and companies. But most people simply want better
        management and a fairer society, they may just have a different opinion on how to achieve that.

        Personally, I will almost certainly vote Labor in this election because I think they have better policies at the moment – largely down to housing/tax policy. But that could change, as it has done many times before.

      • Today's Empire Tomorrow's Ashes

        I don’t have Reusa’s obvious sarc.

        What I am saying is that their principles won’t direct their vote (to a large degree).

        Hip pocket, man, and WIIFM.

        I’m voting non Lib as it will be better for the nation (and not me necessarily)

      • “Ironically, that behaviour is stupid, immoral and arrogant.”

        So you’ve proven that there is stupid, immoral and arrogant behaviour then.

  17. It looks like we finally have someone in the Corporate media to put the Gen X+Y+Millenials point of view across to the whiny baby boomer little landlords.

    In other news in the US, Bernie got smashed again because the oldies > 45 years simply voted for Hillary while he got over 70% of the millennial votes in the last primaries. But the good news is that millennials will overtake baby boomer in US population this year!

    It reminds me what Steve Keen said about Economic Progress.. one (baby boomer) Funeral at a Time.

  18. Today I was talking to a very wealthy customer. He owns multiple commercial and residential properties and at one point owned a major real estate agency.

    He is fervently anti any changes to negative gearing or capital gains tax. In his view-point any changes should be made in minor increments not massive changes like Shorten is proposing (his view, not mine) In his opinion the economy is like a tanker ship, a small change in course can cause major changes in direction.

    Everything Labor proposes is bad and expensive, the NBN is a huge waste of resources etc.

    The irony is I asked him where he could see the Darwin property market going and he said down and he was advising people to hold long-term if they couldn’t sell it now. For buyers he suggested they wait as he expects the Darwin market to drop further.

    He currently knows a lot of people who are suffering extreme mortgage stress. Many of their mortgages are under water with the value of their properties being less than the loans held on them. The view on 1st home buyers is that they don’t try hard enough because “when I bought my first house…..”
    He is not a bad person but he can’t see or doesn’t want to see the flow on events of the policies that have made him wealthy. Yes, he has worked hard but those same opportunities are not available now to Gen Y and Z.

    This guy will be watching a Current Affair, not Waleed Aly. He is the embodiment of Malcom Turnbulls voting block “rich old white guys”, the group Turnbull is desperately pandering to.

    He is also a shining example of the inequality in this country and there are thousands more voters just like him.

    • Sounds like every male over 45 who lives in Perth’s Western suburbs. Utterly clueless about what the LNP actually are.

    • “He is also a shining example of the inequality in this country and there are thousands more voters just like him.”

      Eventually the sheer weight of greed, selfish and stupidity in this country will collapse in on itself. I just hope the mass of mindless greed isn’t so great that it creates a blackhole that none of us can escape from.

    • “He is not a bad person…”
      How do you know? From the sounds of it he is the typical selfish entitled pr*ck. He actively votes and argues for policies that would close all the opportunities afforded to him, just so he can make more money. Simply being polite does not a good person make.

      • Being clueless, or willfully ignorant, about a topic does not make you a bad person. If that was the case I don’t think I’d know any good people.

      • “Being willfully ignorant about a topic does not make you a bad person.”

        Like saying bad behaviour does not make you a bad person. Maybe not but..

  19. Not a bad clip – except for the fact #ShutThisPartyDown is clearly a misleading hashtag
    The party isn’t being shut down – its being shut for new entrants
    #NoOneElseIsInvited #RichCanKeepTheirTaxDodge would be more accurate

    • yes. however what it does is create more government revenues which is against the strategy playbook.

      the end game is to kill the taxpayer by cutting revenues as low as possible, so that Australia is completely helpless to support itself.

    • Totally agree [email protected] That is why the Affordable Housing Party’s policy is to phase out negative gearing on existing properties as well. We’re only 71 members short of registering in time for the election if you’re not already a member of a political party and signing up around 30-40 new members a day so are hopeful of making the deadline http://affordable-housing-party.org/join.html
      Our website is a bit old (we’re relaunching it once the party is registered) but we’re mostly running the campaign through our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/The-Affordable-Housing-Party-of-Australia-314184302114346/

    • The party depends on new entrants to keep it going, otherwise the vibe starts to die down and the punters sober up and start thinking about the next day’s hangover. Preventing the latecomers joining is a nice way of shutting the party down, much better than just yanking out the power cord to the stereo and turning all the lights on.

  20. Turnbull has mistakenly taken an absolutist approach thereby trying to differentiate himself from Labor and with the intent of mobilising a group with a lot at stake. But unlike in the past there is an increasing alternative group which also has a lot at stake – prospective home owners and their friends and families.

    Turnbull should have thrown them a bone to dilute their anger and keep them abject and disorganised. His absolutism may be his undoing.

    • I wouldn’t be surprised if they toss in a new first home owners grant into the Budget – They will then say, look at us – we care. The electorate will fall for it and the property council will fill their coffers with donations.

      • Yep, by using your own Super. It’s the only way they can reform super to be “fairer”, claim to do something about housing affordability and be budget neutral.

        Forget clamping down on the super wealthy using it as tax avoidance – cracking open your own piggy bank to get on the housing ladder is just the sort of misdirection and folly this pack of arseholes will advocate for.

        To be clear – it’s the only ace up their sleeve on housing affordability even though it will DESTROY the super balances of the young and provide temporary support for prices at all time highs.

        I am more convinced than ever this is what awaits us on budget night.

  21. Mark Latham in November 1999 on the introduction of the capital gains discount.

    ” It is an open invitation for the tax minimisers, the tax avoiders and the capital speculators to do their worst in the Australian economy…once this thing is in the statute books it will be pretty hard to get out. If you let the white shoes put their foot in the door, we all know how hard it is to get them out. This will be anything but a one-off effect on the Australian economy.

    … the problem with this measure is that it concentrates economic power and wealth at the top end of town.

    …one name should be remembered in this debate: Peter Costello. He has the responsibility for our finances; he has responsibility for the integrity of the tax system; he has the responsibility for due process and proper procedures in the policy making of the federal parliament and this particular bill; but he has accepted a corrupted process to bring us to this point. I hope this debate well and truly records his reprehensible role in this particular provision.

    The real tragedy for this country is that Labor became such a policy vacuum for real, far reaching reform, from the time of Rudd’s ascension. And the LNP, as is their nature, just want to maintain the status quo.

    • It became a policy vacuum in 1998, when Beazley suceeded Keating.

      We saw nuffies like Gareth Evans move away from his good points of talking to foreign nuffies, and instead engage in thinking… all he did was stick it into Kernot.

      They became the feel good SJW party for a while, until the Dems imploded, and the Greens became SJW’s on steroids. The ALP then reverted to succumbing to Union grubs, but needed Rudd to get them into office.

      Latham was always a good policy advocate. he was never a leader, and needed strong leadership to keep him on a leash.

      • adelaide_economist

        Yep, Latham should never ever have been up for PM but his economic understanding was (and I think mostly still is) superior to everything else being served up in his day and since. He would have been great as a Treasurer or Finance Minister.

    • “I hope this debate well and truly records Costello’s reprehensible role in this particular provision.”

      Costello’s corruptions of the tax system have been an absolute disaster for the financial position of the government. Besides fouling up CGT, Costello has given away a huge amount of revenue in superannuation tax cuts for the rich. Costello left us a legacy alright, a legacy of government financial disaster.

      Also, It’s OK to point out that Labor has not had the gumption to reverse Costello’s disastrous policies, but don’t forget where those disastrous policies came from.

  22. Waleed missed the most important issue.

    Australia’s private debt is in excess of $400Bn. A large portion of this would fall on the taxpayers via bank guarantees if things went bad. Not to mention what would happen to house prices in the case of a banking collapse. Further, that wouldn’t help prople into homes since a banking crisis/collapse would cause massive unemployment. You can’t buy a house cheap if you haven’t got a job.

    Now this isn’t a problem IF, I repeat IF investments provide a positive cash flow. Investors can just ride it out. But, if there’s a negative cash flow, the taxpayer and the nation are both in deep crap.

    So joining the dots, tax policy should be firmly set to discourage loss making investments.

    In our present situation, it would make more sense to actually penalise loan based losses.

    • “Australia’s private debt is in excess of $400Bn.”

      Australia’s private debt was around $2.5 trillion last time I checked so you’re literally correct but understating the problem with your phrasing.

      • adelaide_economist

        Nice link 🙂

        Funny isn’t how the Liberals used to drive the “debt truck” around (circa early Howard era). Perhaps they should do the same, but show private debt… assuming they can display all the digits.

      • SchillersMEMBER

        May you never lay your head down
        Without a hand to hold;
        May you never make your bed out in the cold.
        May you never lose your temper
        If you get in a bar-room fight;

        May you never lose your woman overnight.

        John Martyn. 1973.

    • “Waleed missed the most important issue.”

      Maybe. But are you suggesting he should have said something different? If so, please point out where you would have done it differently in the 6 minutes available: http://tenplay.com.au/channel-ten/the-project/extra/season-7/negative-gearing

      “joining the dots, tax policy should be firmly set to discourage loss making investments.”

      We’ll cross that bridge when we get to it. But first we need to cross the bridge: “stop subsidising ‘loss making’ investments”, a.k.a. negative gearing.

      BTW, negatively geared investments are usually not really loss making. They are just cash-losing in the short term. When the property value is included, they are usually making a handy profit. Why the government gives a tax refund to someone usually making a profit is one of life’s great mysteries.

      • Hi chriso,

        My point is that subsidising cash flow negative business via the tax system is actually destabilising to the whole economy given the present level of private debt.

        Which leads to your point about cash losing in the short term but profitable in the longer term. That’s precisely where the catastrophic instability risk lies. It sometimes happens that property prices crash. Then, not only is it unprofitable in the longer term, but also endangers the banking system, pulling governments and taxpayers down with it.

        So, from the perspective of entire economic system stability, and the fact that most of his stuff was not new (well presented – yes, new – no), I would have suggested that pointing out the danger to our whole system was more important in terms of the policy direction. It’s not a hard concept to explain.

      • “subsidising cash flow negative business via the tax system is actually destabilising to the whole economy given the present level of private debt”

        Yes but how is a statement like that going to go down on a TV program like “The Project”? I can imagine the glazed looks that would come up just at the mention of the word “destabilising”. Horses for courses. “The Project” is not “Insiders”.

        “the fact that most of his stuff was not new”

        Most of Malcolm Turnbull’s stuff is not new either. Like Turnbull, “The Project” is operating in the context of a political discussion, not a research journal.

        “the danger to our whole system is not a hard concept to explain.”

        It’s easy to make the claim of danger to our whole system and it’s easy for most people to understand what “danger” means and to a less specific extent what “whole system” means. Justifying that claim not so much. Perhaps you can point to some analysis for why it is a “danger to our whole system” that is as clear and concise for a Project audience as Waleed’s?

  23. Turnbull is not getting his match when he’s being asked about negative gearing (although Leigh Sales did a half decent job this time). He should be put in the same room with someone like Daley.
    1) Turnbull should be reminded of his own comments on negative gearing from years ago
    2) His supply/demand logic is flawed. It should be pointed out to him that in economics 101, when there’s more demand for a product, the supply will catch up because it becomes profitable to make more of that product. Therefore, if negative gearing is targeted to only new dwellings, most of the property investors will shift towards new dwellings, there will be more demand for new dwellings and it will be more profitable for developers to build new dwellings. End result: more dwellings are built. Rents will go down because first home buyers are now able to buy existing homes without so much competition from investors and the renters will have more supply to choose from. His logic that 1/3 of buyers will be taken out of the market is simply flawed.
    3) He mentioned the US as a place where rents are high and property investment is dominated by large companies. His first assertion is false. The US RE market is much more dynamic and there’s much more elasticity than here. One has to look only at places like Houston where supply is always keeping up with demand.
    4) He should be asked one simple question: Why should taxpayers subsidize someone who owns 10 investment properties and pays no tax??
    5) His explanation of why without negative gearing, property investors would be unwilling to take risks because they might end up having to cover the shortfall of rent/expenses from their own pocket is biased. Just by stating that, he’s acknowledging that the well-being of these so called investors is more important that the well-being of the people who just want a roof over their heads. It’s a very unbalanced view of how society should operate.
    6) He should be reminded of what Joe Hockey said just before he left politics: Allow negative gearing for only new dwellings. He was not able/allowed to say it while in office.

    • Yeah, I really want the press to call Turnbull out on his comparission of of the US and Aus.

      Such total BS.

    • “He mentioned the US as a place where rents are high”

      Whatever Turnbull means by “high rents” in the US, it is much more difficult for a rental property to be in negative gearing in the US because property values are much lower relative to rents and interest rates are lower than in Australia.

      So negative gearing wouldn’t actually happen very much in the US anyway. Not allowing negative gearing tax claims has nothing to do with rents in the US being high.

    • Disappointing from the usually excellent Jericho. He pretty much convinces himself that the CGT discount is the key driver of any perceived distortions yet still concludes with “but NG is bad” mantra. Also, his key complaint is that NG has “lit a fire” under house prices – it isn’t clear whether he means it exacerbated prices that were going up anyway or were the cause of the increase. If the former, then what’s the big deal, if the latter, he provides no evidence.

  24. – Nice video !!!! Here Turnbull (was that our minister of finance Morrison that stood behind him ???) openly admits what the big problem is. He and his buddies are afraid that home valuations will go down. And that’s precisely why Negative Gearing is such a “Hot button” issue for a lot of his voters in e.g. his Wentworth voting district.
    – Aren’t the commentators on this page aware that there’s another group that’s worried about abolishing Negative Gearing ? The australian banks (massively) benefit from NG, AS WELL !!!!!!! Thanks to NG the “investor” can afford a larger loan and a larger loan means that the banks earn more interest on those larger loans.
    – One that’s overlooked as well, is that “interest only” mortgages benefit the banks as well. Not paying the principal means that the mortgage debt doesn’t shrink. The mortgage debt not shrinking also means that the amount of interest the banks receive doesn’t, over time, doesn’t shrink as well.
    – And now with house prices starting to fall, the people who thought to benefit from NG, will – in the near or distant future – feel the (financial) pain.

    No, it will be a VERY tough struggle to get NG abolished or reduced. I fear that only market forces will FORCE the australian government to “change course” on the topic of NG. Not a pleasant prospect.

    • “a larger loan means that the banks earn more interest on those larger loans”

      Yes basically some of the interest the investor is paying on the loan originates from the tax refund that the government is paying for the negative gearing. So some of the banks’ interest income is originating from these negative gearing tax refunds. If those refunds stop then we expect it won’t be as worthwhile taking out the loans.

  25. I normally love Waleed but finance is not his strong suit. Yes, it was a neat chart that he copied from the Australia Insitute (totally meaningless of course because it ignored capital gains and other investment income earned by denizens of those electorates) which allowed him his gotcha. But what he didn’t show was the chart form the other end of spectrum which showed that the LNP had sitting members in I think 17 or 18 or the 20 lowest rental loss claiming electorates.

    As for the “I can’t afford a house in Richmond” whinge – is he freaking kidding?

    • “a neat chart that he copied from the Australia Insitute (totally meaningless of course because it ignored capital gains and other investment income earned by denizens of those electorates)”

      Well for a start it means that the greatest negative gearing benefit goes to taxpayers in some of Australia’s best-off electorates. So it is hardly “totally meaningless”.

      “what he didn’t show was the chart form the other end of spectrum which showed that the LNP”

      In spite of being Liberal or National, those electorates are not well off. So showing them would show that less negative gearing benefit goes to taxpayers in less well off electorates. Quite consistent with the first chart showing that the greatest negative gearing benefit goes to taxpayers in some of Australia’s best-off electorates.

      You leave me wondering what it is you think he was trying to show.

  26. LNP looking to divert the attention from NG to Boat People via PNG corrupted legal system and corrupted PM, now that’s one they may have a win on, unless Labor and the Greens can promise to hold the line on what the LNP has established, or something similar.
    IMO it’s the only success LNP have had in their whole term in office – stopping the boats.
    They will get to it, [it’s all about FEAR] as it’s a success for them and a total failure for past ALP and Greens.

    • “IMO it’s the only success LNP have had in their whole term”

      It cost the government a pretty penny but they “axed the tax”.