Victoria doubles down on vaccine segregation

With Victoria on Monday expected to hit its 90% double vaccination threshold for residents aged 12, the state government today further eased restrictions for the fully vaccinated.

The changes are summarised below:

The news is bad for unvaccinated Victorians who will continue to be barred from non essential retail, cafes & restaurants, entertainment, gyms, and the like.

There was also no indication of when the unvaccinated will be liberated from restrictions. Previously, Premier Dan Andrews has indicated that the unvaccinated will remain locked out through 2022:

“Whether it’s a bookshop, a shoe shop, a pub, cafe, a restaurant, the MCG, the list goes on and on. You will not be able to participate like a fully vaccinated person because you’re not a fully vaccinated person” Premier Andrews said.

In my view, maintaining draconian segregation of the unvaccinated beyond the 90% threshold is unnecessary and overly divisive.

Vaccination doesn’t stop the spread of the virus (just look at Israel, which is highly inoculated with Pfizer, where daily cases recently hit an all-time high – see below chart). Vaccination only protects against serious illness and death.

Singapore is also the most highly vaccinated nation on earth, yet cases recently soared to a record high:

Those that are double vaccinated should, therefore, not fear or ostracize the unvaccinated, as they are protected.

There is also a significant compliance cost in maintaining separate rules for the unvaccinated.

Political leaders like Dan Andrews should seek to unite, not divide, the community.

Unconventional Economist
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Comments

  1. BoomToBustMEMBER

    Yep, and now that boosters are available from 6 months after your last shot, how long before they mandate this as well, notice the change in language from fully vaccinated to double dose or double jab etc.

    The WHO has said the pandemic is over, we are now in an endemic, with new medications (not vaccinations) coming on the market that are around 90% effective at keeping people out of hospital if you catch it, there is no longer any rational but a political one to create a segregated society. The political bullying is entirely Daniel Andrews style if you look at all the legislation he is attempting to ram through parliament including a bill that went through un-noticed in October that allows him to start gathering all Victorian’s medical data with no opt out available. This will mean with the currently delayed bill and the October bill he would be able to determine who the unjabbed are and specifically target them. Think about that. Your neighbor or your someone you know could be healthy and minding their own business, their only crime was to not be jabbed and they could kick in your door and arrest you. Think it wont / cannot happen? See the footage of them arresting unarmed pregnant woman in her house for a FB post urging people to protest. Many many examples of abuse of power. If we dont stand against this now things are going to get much worse.

  2. I believe that in Israel, 6 months after your second jab you join the ranks of the great unvaxxed until you get the booster and your vax passport no longer works. I’ve also seen reports that they’re preparing for the 4th jab, because the first three have worked so well.

    I don’t think many Australians understand that the Covid vaccines don’t work like normal vaccines and don’t prevents infection or spread. There’s gonna be an awful lot of disappointed and very surprised “vaccinated” punters suffering “breakthrough” infections in the coming months.

    • Yep. Just heard from a friend this morning that fully-vaxxed staff in disability are walking off the job because they’re catching it and passing it on, and it’s dawned on them that they’re not protected and their families are not protected.

      • The conflation of actual safe and effective vaccines with decades of wonderful service (polio, triple antigen, tetanus etc) with these miserable, largely ineffective and potentially dangerous drugs has done a huge disservice to the community. It will destroy societal faith in vaccines and allow the loony anti-vaxxers (eg “vaccines cause autism and inject microships into your brain for Bill Gates”) to run amok.

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          So that’s why my kids think I will outlive them. They are both vaxed (forced by choosing to work,). Maybe they read some conspiracy theories.

        • TheLambKingMEMBER

          The conflation of actual safe and effective vaccines with decades of wonderful service (polio, triple antigen, tetanus etc) with these miserable, largely ineffective and potentially dangerous drugs has done a huge disservice to the community.

          You guys really do have no idea. No vaccine is 100% effective. The Covid vaccine is around 90% effective. The Polio vaccine (which requires 2 doses) is 90% effective. Chickenpox 90%, MMR 93% 1 dose, 97% 2 doses. Tetenus becomes less effective over time and requires boosters every 10 years. We have about a 95% vaccinate rate (of the whole population) for measles (MMR) but we still get outbreaks every year!

          The covid vaccines are remarkably effective and remarkably safe!

          https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/vaccines-diseases.html

          • And yet somehow we’ve largely (not entirely) eradicated polio, smallpox, diptheria etc, while the charts for Israel and Singapore in the article above continue to irritatingly exist.

          • FUDINTHENUDMEMBER

            Yah smallpox is a live virus vaccine though. Can you imagine the hysterics from the anti-vaxx crowd if Covid vaccines were made from LIVE VIRUS omg the panic and endless dumb posts..

          • Absolute BeachMEMBER

            Yep. 100%. But don’t waste your time. This is not about science and health. It’s political. So sad

          • TheLambKingMEMBER

            And yet somehow we’ve largely (not entirely) eradicated polio, smallpox, diptheria etc, while the charts for Israel and Singapore in the article above continue to irritatingly exist.

            Run the math/modelling. If you had ANY of those diseases with the same current starting points that we have for Covid (% of population vaccinated & infections in the community) and you will get very similar outbreaks that we have today! Conversely, if we had almost no community cases and 95% vaccination rates for the WHOLE community (not just of 12+, still about 5mil Australians unvaccinated) we would be getting the same spread!!

        • They had to reduce Tetanus boosters after it’s rollout in the 60’s – it was a tad too good….. Turns out that after a few shots some people’s bodies didn’t cope so well anymore, so they changed the regime to what it is today. This is an angle wary local Doctors are looking for in OS data, as they’re that few months ahead of us. This jab still has till end of ’23 before it’s trial date is done for actual medical approval, not just money man’s approval.

    • It’s definitely not well understood here. Was arguing with some immuno-compromised person on Twitter who seemed to think she was totally safe around the vaccinated and just needed to avoid the unvaccinated heathen. I politely pointed out that such an approach might be dangerous for her, but she wasn’t having a bar of it.

  3. big win for democracy today, big win against the tyranny of government by decree. VOTE NO TO STASI POWERS. Thank you adem somyurek. wonder if dan Andrews career now in total jeopardy hehehe

    think andrews will capitulate / back down before xmas 2021 and let unvaccinated in to non essential retail. who of any consequence supports him anymore?? victorian bar not support him, law institute of victoria not support him, etc and they are the legal heavyweights/titans. think andrews really has stuffed up. i am loving it. to keep bashing the unvaccinated when his name is dictator dan says it all. think labor party politicians in backbench will be very angry about how this turned out.

    as i previously have said i hope he continues to bash the unvaccinated with NO MERCY so that we achieve the election result i want. perhaps we will have a whole lot of bill mcharg clones driving around in vans next year before the election trying to get andrews and labour marginal seats kicked out. bill mcharg did this very successfully in getting john howard kicked out as i understand it

  4. The fact is that 100% of all people under 12 are un-vaccinated. Are you really saying that its OK for un-vaccinated over 12’s especially adults to have full access to creches, child care centers, kindergartens and preschools? So are you saying that we should all be comfortable that the pandemic of the unvaccinated be focussed on our young so that a few recalcitrant adults can go into a coffee shop or a gym!
    Data can usually be looked at in a couple of ways.
    One interpretation of the Singapore data is that it is actually a stark warning for Australia if we go to a free for all too soon. Note that Singapore is now reversing course. It has now mandated additional restrictions and has also made a decision not to cover Covid medical costs for the un-vaccinated. Its medical teams are significantly stretched and that’s always the limiting factor in Covid management.
    The Israeli situation is a bit different. They managed a significant vaccination program very early on with very positive effects however they are now at the stage where the protection from that program is falling away which is why they have mandated a full booster program. And yes, in Israel the green pass for a fully vaccinated person now includes the booster.
    My understanding of the modelling for Australia is that there is an expectation for a renewed surge around April next year ;leading into winter. So the question now is how do we prepare for that? A couple of the answers would be to prepare for a full scale booster program now, make sure that the legislation around mandated closures is up to date and improved with sufficient checks, balances and disclosures and with responsibility in the hands of our elected representatives and ensure that our medical workforce that is rested and up for the next challenge and carefully monitor and control our reopening so that our young are protected as much as possible and give us a shot of avoiding another lock down next year as per Singapore, rather than go for the free for all. Sort of what Andrews is doing.

    • I work in a school in Vic that has had high levels of positive cases amongst students (primary year levels 1-6). None of the students (all unvaxxed) have had serious illness. The vast majority have had NO SYMPTOMS. Those with symptoms all have had minor flu like symptoms. None has needed medical attention. Parents who have caught it from their children have also not needed hospitalisation that I am aware of. This is a small snapshot, but I believe you will find it accross the nation. On the whole, there is no “pandemic” amongst children. A tiny minority may experience illness and require medical assistance, but they could well have pre-existing conditions and would have required medical assistance for other similar flu-like diseases. Parents are absolutely sick of the disruption and chaos caused by lockdown and remote learning. These often have worse consequences on children than covid does.
      We need to keep perspective when discussing children. They are not becoming sick to the degree that adults do, and we need to be careful not to over-react as a society in how we deal with the next 12 months. We can move into ‘endemic’ phase soon enough. Our children on the whole will be protected and my experience so far is that they are.

      • Estimates are that 1% of children need hospitalisation from delta strain. Of course Vitamin D is going to play its ever ignored part. School outbreaks in winter would be worse than what your seeing now.

    • “Are you really saying that its OK for un-vaccinated over 12’s especially adults to have full access to creches, child care centers, kindergartens and preschools?”

      I’m talking about segregation from retail, cafes, gyms, etc. If people are worried about catching the virus, they can get vaccinated. Kids are more likely to catch it from other kids. Vaccination also doesn’t stop transmission, just serious illness (which kids don’t get anyway).

      “Sort of what Andrews is doing”.

      Andrews’ results this pandemic have been by far the worst in the nation.

      Longest lockdown in the world – tick.
      Most draconian enforcement – tick.
      Most COVID infections in Australia – tick.
      Most deaths – tick.

      NSW’s approach of ending segregation at 95% vaccination is much better. For the record, me and my family are all vaccinated. I am not an ‘anti-vaxer’. But I want a balanced policy that doesn’t treat one section of the population like scum.

      • 100% this.

        If herd immunity requires > 90% coverage (up from 80% then 85%), why would we continue to punish the small minority who choose not to vaccinate?

        I am fully vaccinated. My family is fully vaccinated. Every friend I’ve asked is fully vaccinated. I do NOT support Dictator Dan’s insane new legislation to effectively grant himself the powers of the East German secret police in the bad old days before the fall of the Wall.

        We may not be at disappearing at night after a knock on the door, but a full year of lockdown – all of 2022 – for the unvaccinated, despite the rest of the country being at 90%+ vaccination rate, is despicable.

        Even Pinochet was considered “reasonable” at first.

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      Yeah why not ya chicken sh1t? How about you just stay under you bed with your mask and nappy on huh!!

    • Here is a bright idea …. how about we just rely on our natural auto immune system? The vaccines are rubbish. Booster
      shot …. what a fu*(ing joke.

  5. ” Are you really saying that its OK for un-vaccinated over 12’s especially adults to have full access to creches, child care centers, kindergartens and preschools? ”
    Yes. Because the risks to children in those age groups of significant death, disability or illness, is significantly less than for an ordinary flu (this is per government stats, it is obviously much different for those with co-morbidities and cohorts aged 50 up).

    There is no longer a public emergency. There can’t be. All the justifications for declaring one.. no treatments, unvaccinated population, runaway deaths etc, are gone.

    You’ll also note the vaxxed can still spread covid as well. Removing any last vestige of the sense of excluding others.

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      Bloke’s a chicken sh1t. They are the biggest problem our society has right now. They want to control YOUR lives their way!!

  6. Given we’re at >90% by this point, I believe Dictator Dan’s power grab has nothing to do with vaccination or protection and everything to do with getting the populace conditioned to the thought that every public action they take – whether that be going to a pub, eating at a restaurant or even filling their car with petrol – will be accompanied by the furnishing of ID and the granting of official “permission”. Contrast this with how people thought pre-CCP virus, where some random demanding you produce ID and check in with the government before you can pay for your fuel, would be told to piss off.

    Given the need for regular booster shots I expect CCP virus checkins will remain mandatory, facilitating all sorts of government overreach.

  7. It is harsh but still a moot point. “Vaccination doesn’t stop the spread of the virus ….Vaccination only protects against serious illness and death” is incorrect.
    RobotSensei made this point in yesterday’s Macro Afternoon. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext
    https://theconversation.com/no-vaccinated-people-are-not-just-as-infectious-as-unvaccinated-people-if-they-get-covid-171302

    Consider unvaxed by choice vs unvaxed due to inability plus immuno-compromised.

    • but remember that NSW is opening up allowing unvaccinated into retail and society from 15 december and Andrews is not. Leads to the inevitable question of whats the difference in the science / medicine between NSW and Victoria. And I think the victorian community have woken up and realized there is no difference in the science / medicine and so that is where it all falls apart for Andrews as he is now being seen as acting for political purposes only. Don’t agree, then read the newspapers and “read the room” of how the victorian community now view Andrews

      I have said for the last few weeks that Andrews has completely stuffed up and that unvaccinated will be back in retail etc before xmas 2021. Any Medical / science expert would have to be crazy to back up Andrews now if they want a long and prosperous career as these type of professionals value how their peers view them and they certainly would not want to be outliers. One thing I know about professionals, in technical fields such as medicine and science they all know their stuff and to try pull the wool over the eyes of their peers, well, lets just say they will lose the respect of the professional community they work in. and no professional is going to be an outlier and go against this rule. that is one thing i suspect andrews did not think about and it is now all too late to fix it as any medical/science expert will not want to be caught up in this TOXIC environment that has arisen during andrews tenure

      if anyone has different views then please first explain how they believe any medical/science expert will justify different treatments between nsw and vic locking out the unvaccinated. and please dont say something as stupid as we have the best medical/science people in the world in victoria and that is what they say….perhaps say something more original like nsw and vic are the same in the sense that all the poupulation live on terra firma, but both states are also different in that nsw has more koalas and kangaroos than vic, and for this reason vic and nsw have different views on how long to lockout the unvaccinated…..sounds stupid does it not, well that is how i think the victorian community views andrews jihad on locking out the unvaccinated

      • Of course there are different government responses world-wide and differences between jurisdictions in federations!
        From YOUR link, what is your view on the difference in viral load decline between vaxed and unvaxed? Should this difference be incorporated into the evidence base and subsequently reflected in the institutional response? Incorporating that evidence into the response, what is your view on the logical consequences on those unable to be vaxed plus immuno-compromised due to the actions of the unvaxed by choice cohort?

        • too busy to comment on this at moment…..currently looking at philosophical issue such as whether a person should or should not accept 30 pieces of silver…..i wonder what a SHILL would do, especially a shill with a vested pecuniary or ideological interest…still researching….find it absolutely fascinating

  8. reusachtigeMEMBER

    As the Bible says, those not willing to take The Mark will be excluded from society and turned into outcasts. Their lives will be made extremely difficult and they will suffer until only the most devout hold out until The Rapture where they will disappear to be with our Lord. Those remaining will be tortured on Earth by Satan. I believe Scomo has taken The Mark so youse should all be happy with that.

    • BoomToBustMEMBER

      The mark in your forehead or in your hand. This has been theorized as a computer chip powered by a lithium battery. The chip will be recharged by large swings in temperature, which occur in these 2 places. Its also said boils will occur on all these people, which they say is what happens when lithium batteries explode under your skin.

      We are not there yet, but you can certainly see how the prophesy of no one being able to buy or sell without this is coming true in our lifetime. And this was written around 2,000 years ago. Interesting times.

  9. Every woe will be blamed on the unvaccinated. It’s a winning formula because over 90% will be vaccinated.

    The Pfizer pill is showing a lot of promise, so by next year it may all be moot. I doubt any of the anti-vaxxer will refuse to take the pill when they come face to face with the ventilation machine.

  10. Dan is happy to let in 10s of thousands of Chinese students that have been vaxxed with the best useless Chinese vaccines.

    Those students will have as much protection as the unvaxed

  11. Mr Morrison is playing a dangerous game catering to the fringe in order to gather hard right votes under cover in the forthcoming election……it could come back on him in a big way……this is why the media are pushing these lines at the moment to help him election wise. Europe storm gathering

    https://twitter.com/biancoresearch/status/1460980988977242113

    Congo variant getting a head of steam

    https://twitter.com/PeacockFlu/status/1458497066557181956

    Locking down the unvaccinated is a good dry run for when your energy useage and travel are controlled in the name of climate change……those systems need testing ahead of time.

  12. Im looking forward to the day when Dan Andrews is segregated from his place of employment… what a piece of work.

    • Jumping jack flash

      More boosters more often is obviously required.
      Perhaps they should implement boosters every 3 months to induce an even larger immune response in people?

      Because we all need MOAR antibodies!

  13. In 6 months time Victoria will be back to square one and no one is vaccinated.
    It is going to be a perplexing and curious situation where the more vaccine you administer, the lower the “full vaccination” rate will be

  14. Last Saturday someone I know fell from her bike and dislocated her elbow and was in agony waiting for an ambulance for 2 hours.
    My 5 year old daughter has to wait a month to get a semi-urgent appointment with the Children’s Hospital.

    Both of these situations are due to the increased pressure on the Health Service because of COVID hospitalisations and the decreased efficiency of health service workers needing to continually use PPE.

    Unvaxxed people don’t consider this in their ‘freedom’ not to get vaxxed. It is them who are treating the vast majority of the rest of us like scum, not the other way around.

  15. Jumping jack flash

    I’m watching to see how far society will fall in their treatment of the unvaccinated over the next few years.

    History and research shows us it doesn’t take much to get people to do some pretty terrible things to “different” people when they themselves are unaffected by those decisions. All of the decisions, rules and actions regarding the treatment of the “different” are always without a doubt completely justified and supported, and often demanded by the majority, of course.