Dictator Dan stealth mandates child vaccination

On Friday, my wife and I received a “distressing” email from my daughter’s dance school stating that unvaccinated children aged between 12 and 16 suddenly won’t be able to attend classes or participate in planned concerts:

“We have had distressing news from the DHHS today that mandates all students over 12 years and two months must be double vaccinated to enter the building effective immediately”.

Shortly afterwards, we heard from other families that their unvaccinated 12 year old children would also not be allowed to attend their primary school graduations, nor retail venues or cafes.

The Chair of the Dance Arts Alliance – a group representing 250 dance and performing arts studios – told Melbourne’s Radio 3AW that the mandatory vaccination rules have “blindsided” parents and businesses:

Under the COVID-19 rules which were announced yesterday and came into effect at midnight, Victorians aged 12 or older must be fully vaccinated to visit a range of venues including hospitality businesses, non-essential retailers, theatres, and also dance classes.

Chair of the Dance Arts Alliance, Mike Harrison-Lamond, says he’s been seeking answers for weeks from the state government on what would happen when the 90 per cent double dose vaccination threshold was reached.

“We’ve been asking the government for ages about whether it was going to be 12+ or 16+ and they wouldn’t get back to us, and they’ve broadcasted that yesterday,” he told Neil Mitchell.

Mr Harrison-Lamond says there are kids who’ve got concerts tonight who now can’t perform.

The Herald-Sun also reported that parents were caught off guard:

The last-minute rules meant unvaccinated youngsters were turned away crying from their games as venues sought to meet the government guidelines…

It comes after unvaccinated children as young as 12 were reportedly being banned from attending their own year six graduations, end-of-year school events and sporting matches.

Children aged 12 to 15 have been barred from taking part in everyday activities like dance concerts and martial arts classes unless they are fully vaccinated, while retailers are scrambling to suddenly enforce vaccine checks.

Shockwaves are reverberating among parents and children who are discovering their unvaccinated children are being locked out of many venues, shops and activities due to the new government vaccination mandates, which started last Friday. They are being stopped from playing competitive sport, attending activities such as class parties at swimming centres and even sitting formal events such as ballet exams.

Many parents were unaware the vaccine mandate applied to children under 16…

One 12-year-old girl has been stopped from entering a shop to buy her year seven uniform for next year, and forced to try on items standing outside on the footpath.

However, Victoria’s Covid Response Commander Jeroen Weimar hit back saying the Government has been “very clear” on vaccination:

Victoria’s COVID-19 commander says parents with unvaccinated young teens only have themselves to blame if their children are unable to attend venues because they haven’t been fully vaccinated…

Jeroen Weimar said people would “have to have been living under a rock” to not see this coming…

“I think the vast majority of us have known this is coming for a long time and have taken the appropriate action and the action that is right for us and our situation”.

Most parents that I associate with are highly educated and are all vaccinated. Yet none that us thought the vaccine mandate applied to children. We all thought it only applied to people aged 16 and over.

Some parents have children that only recently turned 12. All are now banned from attending extra curricular classes, cafes or retail. Even if they were to move now to vaccinate their children, they would be effectively segregated until Christmas at the earliest.

Leaving aside debate about whether Children should be mandated to be vaccinated, the fact remains that the Victorian Government has not communicated the new child vaccination laws to the public. Indeed, the Education Department’s own Communications Pack explicitly states that vaccination is not mandatory for children aged 12 to 16:

The Victorian Government is encouraging everyone aged 12 and above to get vaccinated as soon as possible…

Vaccination is not mandatory but is strongly encouraged. Getting vaccinated is the best way to protect your school community from further outbreaks and the spread of COVID-19.

Accordingly, activities that were permitted a fortnight ago when cases were higher and a smaller percentage of the population was vaccinated is suddenly illegal. This has left businesses like dance schools, which have already suffered through nine months of hard lockdowns, facing further financial damage and hardship.

With 90% of Victorians aged 12-plus now vaccinated, the Victorian Government should be removing segregation, not adding further restrictions.

At the very least, the Government must implement a three month grace period for vaccinating 12 to 16 year olds.

Unconventional Economist
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Comments

  1. Remember the narrative at the start?
    We have to protect the old, kids will fight it off very quickly.
    I’ve heard kids that have been jabbed are having weird heart related issues. But obviously not reported as being a side effect of said jabs.

  2. @UE – Still think this is still just about public health? This is designed to inflict as much pain and discomfort on those who refuse to comply with government over reach and heavy handed policy. The protests will keep getting larger and larger as he continues to inflict more and more pain on each different sector.

    • It’s beyond a joke now. Having to show a vaccine passport when entering nearly every shop and venue is getting old. I’m sure businesses are hating the added compliance costs of enforcing the rules and having to pay to have someone at the front door checking everyone’s passes.

      With such a high vaccination rate, it’s time to end the segregation. If not now, at 95% like in NSW.

      • UE – some might argue the problem is that boosters will be needed regularly. So you will need to sustain this over time and monitoring compliance is part of that.

        • FUDINTHENUDMEMBER

          True that. Alternative to the sheer agony of checking in and masking is the relative bliss and all-round good time that is home-schooling. I guess folks would be more keen on that?

        • We attended the Melbourne protest on Saturday, we met up with a few different groups of people we know, both jabbed and unjabbed. We can easily tell you that people are starting to get very annoyed, and are terrified at the power DA wants, they can see no end in sight.

          • Exactly, mandating the vax is a guaranteed way to increase the number of pissed off people and swell the size of demos not to mention drive more people into rabbit holes etc. It goes against one of the core fundamental beliefs that has served democratic nations so well, personal choice & freedoms. (When something has the potential to do you harm, even very small chance, it can’t be forced, unlike seat-belts etc.) Very short sighted and divisive policy.

          • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

            The 27th is my punters club race day at Rosehill.
            Can we start the revolution the week after?

        • According to the SMH today, you are all fools, led astray by internet propaganda and conspiracy theories and when you arrive at these protests, you have no understanding of whom you are protesting next to or what they actually stand for (you know, as opposed to a ‘race rally’, or climate change rally where everyone is on the same page!)

        • “This exception to the current directions will apply only to school-organised activities when at least one teacher is present.”

          Because at least 1 school teacher present is scientifically proven to reduce the spread of COVID in unvaccinated children, kind regards ‘the health advice’.

          Meanwhile, it appears all other restrictions stand. How any sensible, vaccinated person can look at advice like that (or literally countless decisions regarding, restaurants, bars, aircraft etc) and come to the conclusion that it is ANYHTING but pure policy on the fly almost completely at the whim of political need is beyond me.

      • I’m a card carrying vaccine fanboy however I’m very opposed to the heavy handed mandates which just seem to be causing massive social division, feeding the loonies exactly what they’re craving and eroding trust in the governments.

        On the whole, Australians have cooperated very well with governments and once you’re at a high enough vaccination rate just continue to promote the jab as a well balanced wellbeing/fear public health programme as was done with HIV in the late 80’s. Hell, I was too young to know what a condom was but those grim reaper ads sure as hell scared me into thinking I should wear one!

    • Why is it that self-righteous people, elected by persuasion methods, when they get into power always take on authoritarian powers to implement on those others not of their ilk. Knowing what is right (for their socio-economic group).

    • I heard Jordan Peterson’s take on this was. If you’ve got vaccinated and done what was asked, it’s fair to say leave me alone now.

      Going after kids is ridiculous given they are not as at risk of clogging up ICU. Perhaps even less so than they are with the flu.

      My child is 15 months old. So he isn’t being required. But I would not get him vaccinated with Pfizer or Moderna given the heart issues (my aunt is affected after getting Pfizer jab).

      Enough is enough.

      This is all about rebooting the Ponzi ASAP. Not about our health and well being.

      • It was never really about health and well being. If Victoria didn’t botch hotel quarantine, it would have taken thousands of students through hotel quarantine. The plans were ready to be executed, but the second wave delayed those plans. In fact for about 12 months any state with ready to go plans had a hotel quarantine leak.

        The lockdowns are effective being hard, early and no exemptions other than essential services. The lockdowns had some of the three, but not all and then we spent months with stay at home orders.
        Oh and we had a tennis tournament that most people didn’t want due to the risk of an outbreak, but was thrust upon us anyway. If it was about health and well-being we wouldn’t have taken that risk.

    • Not about public health. Just not sure what it is about.
      Fact is even the flu is more dangerous to under 15’s than COVID in terms of risk of death. You can look this up. Think the CDC published a paper on this. So no quackery bs.
      In Australia life expectancy is 82 years. Average age of COVID deaths in Australia 84(!!).
      This is backed up by UK data where the average age of COVID death is 82. Life expectancy in UK 81.2 years. They’ve had just about all the COVID variants possible so far in the UK. So their experience should put the risks in perspective.
      So if there is so much confidence in the vaccines, then why push this to kids where there is a definite risk of side effects. Kids still have a risk of complications when they get the virus, but on balance there must be a reason why other countries have stooped mrna vaccinations in younger age groups. Mostly Scandinavian countries have take action to not use mrna vaccines in younger groups.
      73% of COVID deaths in Australia had comorbidities. You get this when you age. So in terms of risks kids are at the bottom. Flu jabs has never been mandated for kids. Why COVID now? You can’t keep on injecting them with something that put their health at risk. It does not stop after the 1st vaccination. It will keep going. So what happens to those that get side effects that may leave permanent damage? I guess they would just be collateral damage?
      Parents of kids that develop severe side effects are not going to behave rationally. Politicians are playing with fire here.

      • It is a very strange coincidence that around the world, the average age of death from Covid is similar to average age of all-cause death. That alone hints that some deaths are with (rather than from) Covid.

        I’m damned if I know what this is about.

        Joining the dots
        1. US funded risky gain-of-function research in Wuhan. This seems extraordinary. But the US thinking May have been that this research was going to happen, and it was better to have some oversight rather than be outside the tent. This would explain why Fauci and EcoHealth appear to have been spared the axe despite recent apparently damning revelations.
        2. It may be that China played the US and then applied this research to SARS-CoV-2. There is now a lot of evidence to suggest that SARS-CoV-2 is not a natural virus. It also seems extraordinary long odds that the concepts being researched in Wuhan just happened to break out in Wuhan. If you exclude a natural cause, you are left with a lab leak or a deliberate release.
        3. A bruising trade war and the prospect of a 2nd Trump term (which appeared likely in 2018-19) May have prompted China to release this.
        4. Once the world was aware of Covid, China released apocalyptic videos designed to scare the world and encourage lockdowns.
        Note these videos of middle aged people dropping dead in the street never happened outside Wuhan.
        Note also these Jan videos don’t fit with the timeline. The first cases were reported in November. China is now trying to deny these cases and suggest the first cases were in December. Even if it was in December, it would not take 4 weeks to notice something strange. People dropping dead in the street tends to get noticed. Yet China only notified the WHO that something unusual was happening on NYE.
        The reality is that Covid is serious to a small minority, but nothing like the killer portrayed in these videos.
        What then was the purpose of such propaganda?

        My gut feel is that the international governments have come to much the same conclusion.
        International opinion has hardened considerably towards China.
        But what can they do without proof. Circumstantial evidences (even a lot of it) is not sufficient to prosecute this case. Plus this would require world leaders to collectively admit their failings.
        I expect they hoped they could vaccinate themselves out of the mess, but this appears not to be the case.

        What next? Who knows.

  3. I’m double vaxxed, as is my wife. Unfortunately I’ve developed a long thoracic nerve injury which means I basically can’t lift my arm above my head. My brother who is a neurosurgeon has decided the most probable cause of the injury is the Pfizer vaccine…the damage may never repair too. The small chance of side effects don’t seem like much to worry about until you are one of the ones affected. I’m in no hurry to get my kids vaccinated to protect someone else.

  4. I still don’t understand how Victorians still don’t get it:
    – Vaccine mandates will be required for everyone over 6-months of age.
    – Anyone who refuses will be locked down.
    – You will be required booster shots for the rest of your life including your babies.
    – This will be law on a constant state of emergency powers awarded to the state government.
    If you don’t like this and think it’s harsh and an over-reach I suggest you campaign hard to get people vote someone else in who also doesn’t align with the above.

  5. This is nuts. No media coverage of the mandate protests or the mass walk out of USA staff over the mandate. I walked away from my career due to the vax mandates. Boiling frogs my friends.

  6. It’s a disgrace. The Vic government didn’t let the community know this at all. Most people thought it was a 16 yr old threshold. I didn’t even think about my 12 yr old needing Vax papers. What a joke. The dictator has to go

  7. this is fantastic news….sorry LVO but we are winning……somyurek and Morrison delivered FATAL blows to Andrews last week….yes the blows were FATAL…..his stance against the unvaccinated was the biggest mistake of his career and ENDS his political career…..you are watching it in action right now…..Andrews is doubling down, his actions are those of a mortally wounded animal thrashing about and trying to kill off its attacker….even though the animal wont survive it is trying to mortally wound its attacker, or in andrews case trying to show he is teflon when in fact his career is over……Andrews is gone and he knows it….last week was the curtains closing on his political career…..look at his emotive lanuage…..look at fridays vaccine mandates….his political career is over….so sorry to hear about what happened but is also a good thing cause he has signalled his career is over….think of it that way

      • well known fund manager jeffrey gundlach one year out took an outlier position and said trump would get voted in as president in 2016….despite all the critics gundlach called it correctly and no one else really did……last week somyurek and morrison delivered FATAL blows to andrews….his career is over and he knows it and so thrashing about like a mortally wounded animal….all the signal i need to see re next election from andrews himself….emotive language, fire alarms going off 5 minutes into thursday press conference to avoid journalit questions, fridays rushed vaccine mandate blind siding people….time is up for andrews and he and labor party know it….the signals are very strong….andrews has made many mistakes and got away with it….ironically i thought he may just get back in next election….but when he bashed the unvaccinated all those weeks ago and said lockout till after grandprix and few days later said all 2022 knew then and there this was biggest political mistake of his career and would TERMINATE his career even before protests arose….it was just that obvious cause i instinctively and at a primal emotinal base knew how i felt….and knew how others would feel even before the community signalled how it felt with protests…..somuyurek and morrison last week delivered the FATAL blows to andrews career and his action after that signal he knows his career is over.. hehehe

    • Nah, Andrews will easily win the next election. The opposition is a bunch of unemployable private school twats. My prediction is he will easily win the next election and stand down in 2024 only to be given a board role at John Holland.

      • another signal is labor party SHILLs jumping all over these blogs supporting andrews…..if andrews was so teflon why are the labor party shills trying to control the narrative on this blog…..is it because others such as journalists etc come here and this could be influencing what they do or dont write…..perhaps there is a lot of utility in what indepndent commenters have to say….anyway andrews has signalled his career is over with his words and actions….his career is now terminal and he knows it

      • POLITICAL JOURNALISTS
        Potential way to set you up in your career. If polls (question independence and robustness of the polls???) suggest Andrews will strongly win, but any journalists decides they want to say yeh nah andrews will get absolutely torched at elections then you may be taking a contrarian position (ie outlier) but if you call it correctly you will be seen as a prophet, as one who has much insight and raw ability to look far ahead and call it correctly. remember fortune favors the brave

  8. TheLambKingMEMBER

    EVERY kid TODAY has to show a vaccine passport to attend school in Victoria. There are about 40+ vaccine doses starting from birth that EVERY child has to show a vaccine passport to attend childcare, pre-school, kindergarten and school.

    You people thinking that needing to show another vaccine is somehow different/wrong/mad are crazy. Thinking that these vaccines are suddenly more dangerous are mad. More people in Australia die from paracetamol than covid vaccines.

    • That’s a discussion in its own right – the difference between a therapeutic dose and a lethal dose of paracetamol is surprisingly narrow. You r00t that up, you’re not going to recover – your liver dies.

      • Good point and one I want everyone here to know. I was in Masada hospital (sent by overloaded Alfred hospital) with a broken upper left arm, extremely painful and left free hanging in a wrist sling. I was fed Panadol plus a gut paralysing drug. Panadol was continued round the clock as food tasted weird and eventually I could not eat or drink, then retched convulsively repeatedly and very strongly. As well I had extreme itchiness of my back so hospital doctor prescribed a cortisone cream. and asthma flared up badly it’s allergic and there were no allergens in the hospital. All of these are liver dying from Panadol overdose. The nurses said everyone has itchy backs here, sure I they are getting Panadol. The nurses refused to consider it a problem and kept pushing it, I knew because I looked on my iPad.
        Been on milk thistle , no wine. Childhood asthma seems to be related to Panadol usage, and bite out of position,…japanese research denied here.

    • nope you are wrong. We have kids in PS and SC and have never shown any vaccination paperwork for either, no one has questioned it and been zero issue. If the school uses Compass Education (management platform for staff, students, parents) there is a statement at the bottom about Vaccination status sited, for most people it says no.

    • Don’t know if that is true but your not forced to take paracetamol. If fact by law your cannot be forced to take any invasive medication or procedure…until now.

    • I personally know two adults that have been hospitalised by Pfizer with pericarditis. These aren’t made up examples. I know these people well.

      I have never met anybody that has been hospitalised from another vaccine.

      I have strong issues with vaccinating children for COVID when COVID presents minimal risk to children. Vaccination also does not stop the virus from spreading. Just look at Singapore, Israel, Germany or the many other developed nations where cases have rocketed. It only helps prevent serious infection among vulnerable groups (i.e. not children).

      This does not make me an ‘anti-vaxer extremist’. My entire family is vaccinated other than my 11 YO daughter. But I am also cautious about mandating COVID vaccination, especially among children.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        It’s a bridge too far for a virus that leaves children untouched and where children Are more likely to be hospitalised by a vaccine response than the virus itself.
        Completely Unacceptable

      • Hi Leith,

        I’m with you on this in terms of real world stories.

        I have a strong network of people – including business associations maybe 600-700 people and I’ve heard of 9 people being taken to hospital for reactions to the vaccine so far out of this number.

        7 in their 30’s (6 men, and 1 woman)
        1 in their 40’s (male)
        1 in their 50’s (male)

        3 of the men in their 30’s were fed bullshit that even though they had the vaccine in recent weeks – it was “nothing to do with the vaccination”.. one was told he had been “working too hard at work”… another was told “oh, decided to do Ocsober and give up the booze for a month, so it’s your body reacting to a lack of alcohol”… and the third was told “oh, you ticked that you have a family history of heart conditions, so its linked to that and not the vax”…… This means that these people are not included in the official reaction stats.

        The reason the ambulance system in Victoria (and SA and WA for that matter) is nearly at Code Red is not because of COVID at all – but the huge amount of 000 calls happening because of people having vax reactions (I’ve heard this first hand from someone inside ETSA who works at the Docklands) – but the media nor the government wants to tell people this.

        Maybe if we knew the truth about it all – more people would be vax hesitant – especially for their kids.

        • Yes re ambulance code red, neighbour late 70s,tripped and fell, breaking her upper thigh last week
          at 10.30 pm. The ambulance arrived at 2.30 am, four hours in Northcote.

        • innocent bystander

          Maybe if we knew the truth about it all – more people would be vax hesitant

          I humbly submit this to be the case.
          It started with AZ. Ok, not so many hospitalised with clots maybe, but other long term side effects (unofficially) well numbered.
          The clot issue started the vax hesitancy – they weren’t going to make that mistake with the Pfizer marketing.

      • ”I have never met anybody that has been hospitalised from another vaccine.”
        Trying to trigger an immune response to improve it will always induce some form of stress on the human body. Expecting something else is like expecting you will get fit by not doing any exercise (with its risk of injury or death). The question is, are they more or less likely to be hospitalised if they are not vaccinated?

        • Imagine if I die from Covid passed on to me from patient zero via a chain of 10 unvaxxed foreigners, 5 vaxxed foreigners and 1 unvaxxed Aussie.

          The questions is:

          Should I be more angry with the last unvaxxed Aussie in the chain, or with the Chinese scientist who developed the virus in the Wuhan lab?

          • I don’t know if you read the real press or just watch YouTube vids or hang out on Telegram, but it wasn’t developed in a lab in Wuhan.

          • Conspiracies aside, what purpose would getting angry serve?
            The point of my question is that there are complexities that go beyond “I know two blokes that got hospitalized after a jab.” This is why there are highly trained professionals doing this kind of work because dealing with those complexities requires knowledge, data, time and a truck load of experience. It’s not exciting stuff that holds attention and it certainly wont increase circulation or clicks (if that’s your game) but, it is probably the closest thing you will get to informed opinion.

        • I know this is the US, but should provide you with some answers:
          https://freopp.org/comparing-the-risk-of-death-from-covid-19-vs-influenza-by-age-d33a1c76c198
          Risk of death from homicide is higher under the age of 35 than risk of dying from COVID in the US.
          Up to the age of 14 the risk of death from the flu is about equal to (age 10-14) or lower(0-9) to risk of death from COVID. Risk of death is VERY low of dying from either COVID or the flu up to age 14.
          Average age of COVID deaths in the UK with heaps of infections is 82 vs life expectancy of 81.2 years.
          People need to stop reacting to all the media attention COVID has received. Not since WMD’S(Gulf war) has there been such a con job on a global scale. Back then everyone believed Saddam was the devil. Now it is COVID. LOL. What a joke.
          Taking the vaccines do not come without risk. If you can look past all the nut jobs and idiots posting conspiracy videos on the web that have given the anti-vax movement a bad name and bother to dig a bit on your own, then your opinion on the vaccines may change… if you bother to think for yourself and not just drink in the “just get vaccinated” nonsense.
          I know 2 people that have ended up in hospital from the vaccines. One with inflammatory reaction in lungs causing lung scarring. First symptoms a couple of days after first vaccination, in hospital coughing up blood. First doctor suggested it may be due to the vaccine. Then went through whole process to check if not bacterial infection(antibiotics), viral infection or cancer(lung biopsy). No answers. No bacterial infection, no viral infection, no cancer. Advised by specialist to get second vaccination. 3 days later same story as first time, coughing up blood, but this time worse than first time, scans showed a new area of scarring in the lung. 5 months later he is still trying to recover from this.
          Who would you hold responsible if this happened to your child? You’d have to have been ignorant to not know that there are risks associated with the vaccines and low risk from the virus. There risk associated with getting COVID, but getting vaccinated is a choice if it is a forced choice. Either way we have to live with our choices in life.
          The vaccines argument is that unvaccinated kids still have a risk of ending up in hospital. This conveniently leaves out that it is a VERY low risk in the first place.

          • The “Bill Gates is injecting microchips in vaccines to rewire your brain” nutters do everybody a disservice.

            I don’t want to take the mRNA vaccines because there is no clinical data proving their long term safety, so I can’t compare the risks of taking the vaccines with the risks of catching the bugs. In my eyes, that doesn’t make me a raving nutter, it makes me a cautious person who would like to see the same protocols applied to mRNA tech vaccines as other vaccines, including standard clinical trials.

            When I hear accounts here of people being injured by the mRNA drugs, or of friends and family being injured, it confirms to me that my caution is justified.

      • The risk of the disease increases with increasing age
        The risk of the vaccine appears to increases with DECREASING age. Initially it was felt this was confined to the AZ vaccine.. However it also seems true of the mRNA vaccines.

        This calculus suggests there is a point where the 2 lines intersect on a graph. We don’t know exactly where that point is, but it sure older than kids.

        PULS is a biomarker test used to predict an individuals risk of future acute coronary syndrome (ACS)
        https://www.pulstest.com/patients

        In the below study (only 566 patients), the PULS score was significantly increased out to at least 10 weeks after the 2nd mRNA vaccine. Specifically, the predicted 5 yr ACS rate increased from 11% to 25%
        Now it is only a small study – 566 patients
        We don’t know whether these individuals actually had a higher rate of ACS. The study specifically does NOT comment on this outcome (and 566 patients over 10 weeks would not allow meaningful comparison anyway)
        We don’t know if these biomarker changes persist beyond 10 weeks. The markers could well normalise at 3-4 months.
        The PULS measures you risk at one point in time. It has not been demonstrated that initiatives that increase or decrease your PULS score change your risk. They may, or they may not.
        It is likely that a significant Covid infection will also bump your PULS – I haven’t see this specifically, but I would be astonished if it did not.
        So there is a lot we don’t know and more questions than answers at this point.
        https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

        I have been vaccinated (x3) and am not antivax.
        I can categorically state that patients vaccinated who were hospitalised with Covid had a far more benign course than those non-vaccinated – the elderly, the obese, and the non-vaccinated all do significantly worse.
        But there are perhaps some nuances to how the vaccine should be utilised, and we may not have this quite right. Blanket vaccination of everyone may not yield “the greatest good for the greatest number.”

      • TheLambKingMEMBER

        I personally know two adults that have been hospitalised by Pfizer with pericarditis.

        And the evidence says that there are much higher cases and worse effected by pericarditis by actually catching Covid! There is a non-trivial chance that their outcomes would have been worse when they catch covid.

        I have never met anybody that has been hospitalised from another vaccine.

        People get hospitalized all the time from anaphylactic reactions to vaccines all the time! But I love anecdotal evidence to try to argue against science!!!

        Vaccination also does not stop the virus from spreading.

        But it does reduce the chance by a lot!! This is a game of maths.

      • RobotSenseiMEMBER

        I have never met anybody that has been hospitalised from another vaccine.
        Yes but what other vaccine has literally rolled off the production line and into clinical use nearly this quickly?

        • Has a vaccine effort had such a synchronised, singular global focus with concomitent funding, as well as compression of the typical approval timelines? Has a vaccine effort ever had a such a large number of people simultaneously available for studies? Not a compromise of the process, but a reduction in the actual processing time due to these vaccines being put at the head of the queue.

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            I understand people’s reluctance/hesitancy on vaccines (and I think of that old parable of “the sun and the wind” with regards to motivations) but two parts of this have been handled pretty poorly:
            1) the communication from the Vic Government has been below par; but
            2) the utter misinformation and fear-mongering regarding the vaccine is unparalleled. It’s a vaccine, not a lobotomy.

          • Has any other vaccine manufacturer demand governments accept to pay for all liability claims against the manufacturer in court and demand collateral to ensure this payment is made before providing the vaccine? Why would they do it now?
            Also what does the science say about getting people addicted to pain killers to increase profits, because that is the “science” pfizer believes…

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            Has any other vaccine manufacturer demand governments accept to pay for all liability claims against the manufacturer in court and demand collateral to ensure this payment is made before providing the vaccine? Why would they do it now?
            See answer below
            Also what does the science say about getting people addicted to pain killers to increase profits, because that is the “science” pfizer believes…
            Well that’s entirely irrelevant to this discussion

      • TheLambKingMEMBER

        SheepQueen, can you still catch polio and get sick from it while also spreading it to others?

        Yes! The polio vaccine is only 90% effective. After 3 doses it is about 99% effective (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/hcp/effectiveness-duration-protection.html)

        So yes, if there was as much polio in circulation in the population as there is currently for Covid and we had the same vaccination rates, we would be in a Polio pandemic and it would be circulating with huge cases every day!

        Vaccination is the only way to eradicate Covid – like we did with polio. Vaccination is the only way to stop another variant.

        • Well that is one theory.

          The other theory is that vaccination will facilitate variants – much like antibiotics facilitate antibiotic- resistant bacteria.

          “…….you’ve got to ask yourself one question: ‘Do I feel lucky?’ Well, do you, punk?”

        • lol, vaccination that doesn’t actually prevent catching and transmission increases the selection pressures to create vax resistant variants, just like using antibiotics increases selection pressures on drug resistant bacteria.

        • Hey TheLambKing, do you know what’s up with Ailart Sua, he keeps telling you to watch this vid, but there’s no link?

          Ah, is it a scam vid and been deleted?

    • “Thinking that these vaccines are suddenly more dangerous are mad. ”
      Pfizer sure seems to think they are more dangerous than anything they have previously released.
      What other treatment has required governments to sign away rights to collateral to ensure they pay any and all legal awards against pfizer for side effects of the treatment before the treatment is supplied? That is EXACTLY what has happened for the covid vax.

      • RobotSenseiMEMBER

        Think about it from Pfizer’s perspective: they’ve been asked to rush a product onto market in the hopes of abating a pandemic that is killing millions and grinding economies to a standstill. They have no idea what the long-term outcomes of their vaccine are – they might be minor, but 25m+ people are going to get their vaccine (or something in that quantum). If the government was asking me to release something at their insistence, I’d want that liability protection too.

        It’s purely a risk assessment move, not an admission they know something about their vaccine the rest of us don’t.

        • ” they’ve been asked to rush a product onto market ”
          The marketing bullshido from the WHO says the mrna tech has been in laboratories for DECADES. This tech is not specific to covid and could be used for other viruses. This tech has not been rushed, it has failed to be approved for a decade or longer.

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            The *tech* has been available, not the specific vaccine. That’s like saying that all protein vaccines are the same, ergo: they should all have the same side-effect profile.

            The properties of a molecule in vivo depend solely on it’s chemical structure and interaction with biology, and not what tech it was made from.

        • My risk assessment is the same as Pfizer’s. I have no idea what the long term consequences are, and on that basis I’m not taking their medicine until I do.

    • Just as a point of accuracy, the requirement for children to attend school is that their vaccination status (yes or no) must be documented, NOT that they must be vaccinated.

      Ie: an unvaccinated child can attend school, but the school needs to know they are unvaccinated (and they may / probably will be excluded should any disease breakouts occur).

    • Jumping jack flash

      The difference is those vaccines actually work to completely prevent disease and infection, with very, very few exceptions.

      These ones don’t.

      End of story.

      Both my children are 100% immunised against all those ailments including MMR, and my son has been diagnosed with Autism.

      I would NEVER consent to getting them vaxxed with whatever crap these vaccine companies are peddaling for COVID.

  9. working class hamMEMBER

    This has been on the cards from the get go. Getting the community to police itself via fear tactics is the only way the Govt can financially control this. If the community does not comply, the whole system fails.
    What you believe at this point doesn’t change the fact that forcing “questionable” vaccines on children is all kinds of wrong.

  10. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    I went to a 50th birthday at the Harborview hotel near the rocks a couple of Saturdays ago.
    There were 70 to 80 guests there, everyone Vaxxed obviously, and I made a point of asking near everyone their view on the untaxed and especially their view on the several people who could not attend the gathering we were at because of their unvaxxed status.
    It was a near universal “I couldn’t care less if they are or are not” or similar sentiments.
    More Surprisingly was the number of people I spoke to who had been vaccinated but quite openly stated they really didn’t want to get it and they only did because they felt coerced to do so.
    This was expressed to me by over half the people I spoke to.
    And yet I’m hearing Repeater utterances on the ABC and other media about how “most” people don’t want to sit in restaurants or movie theatres next to an unvaxxed person.
    I don’t know anyone who feels this way.
    People are getting sick of the gaslighting, lies and propaganda being wielded by the state on this issue.
    All for the sake of increased surveillance capitalism and greater state power
    Well I’m saying No and I’m not alone.

    • I have had a similar experience, but also lots of stories of bad reactions to vax from people, heaps not reported, one guy said he can get comp from the Gov (20k his 17yo daughter had her gall bladder removed) but has to sign a waiver for any ongoing issues

      • Sounds like neither you and nor the politicians have no faith in the vaccines.
        Have some faith, take a chill pill and it will be alright.
        It may sound fatalistic, but we all die one day… see it in perspective: median age of COVID death in Australia is 84. Life expectancy is 82. ( I know I’ve posted this several times now, but people don’t seem to understand). When your time is up, it is up!!! Get it. It can’t be delayed forever.
        Even in the UK the numbers are 82 yrs for deaths and 81.2 for life expectancy.
        It is not a pleasant way to die, suffocating in hospital. It would be better if we just passed away “peacefully” in our sleep at an old age. At least the media would leave us alone then, because there would be no story.
        The problem with COVID is that it overloads the hospital system. It becomes a political hot potato when that happens and is the reason why we find ourselves now with vaccine mandates. It is mostly to save the hospitals, overworked medical staff and lastly … politicians from having to answer questions about hospitals.
        Hopefully this will all come to pass the same as previous and more deadly pandemics have done.

      • Jumping jack flash

        “I imagine if/when we get locked down again, if it’s largely because of unvaxxed, I imagine vaxxed will feel differently.”

        And rightly so!

        May I suggest creating special “unvaxxed zones” where we can store the unvaxxed so they can’t endanger the rest of society, or until they see the light and decide to rejoin society and be vaxxed?

        Or perhaps we’re all being far too accommodating to these selfish and ungrateful people? Perhaps we need to form squads to go door-to-door to forcibly administer the vaccines to those who just can’t see the terrible danger and damage they’re inflicting on society by dissenting?

      • Its commonly said by politicians but scientifically false. A vaccine escape variant has to come from the vaccinated, almost by definition. Natural selection pressure v a population that has Abs raised against a very specific part of the viral S protein will do this.
        This is evolutionary biology 101.
        Sure the unvaccinated put themselves at higher personal health risk but any variants will be in essence random, or at least not creating a selection pressure against the vaccine induced antibodies.

    • + 1. The whole point was to protect the majority and ‘the system’. Well with 90% vax rates the narrative was that this has been achieved, so what is the justification for further restriction at this point….. oh, would you look at that, after literally disappearing overnight from all media and govt press announcements ‘public health advice’ is back dribbling from the mouths of politicians.

      Very few people when handed power want to relinquish it.

      “The Australian Department of Health’s 2019 Influenza Season summary affirmed what most people already knew: last year we endured very high levels of activity compared to previous seasons and those levels were high from earlier in the year – even during the summer months. This culminated in a total of 310,011 laboratory-confirmed flu notifications by the beginning of December1. On a more serious note, by October 6 more than 800 influenza-associated deaths had been officially recorded.”

      310,000 cases and more than 800 deaths in a single year….. Once COVID is under control, why are we opening up at all? Sure, COVID looks worse, but who draws the line, COVID at even a 95% population vax rate is still too dangerous for citizens to enjoy everyday freedoms without government permission (Just ask the creators of the new QLD Govt vax campaign). So how does influenza fail to even rare mention now? With current vax rates shouldn’t our COVID experience be similar to or lower than influenza going forward? So why have we not mandated flu shots and added them to our passports?

      • ” With current vax rates shouldn’t our COVID experience be similar to or lower than influenza going forward? So why have we not mandated flu shots and added them to our passports?”

        Because that level of fearmongering about the flu is virtually impossible given people’s lived experience and the psychology of novel vs existing risks..

      • Jumping jack flash

        “So why have we not mandated flu shots and added them to our passports?”

        Soon.

        We have certainly paved the way for many, many more “mandatory treatments” now.
        And the best thing about it was that apart from an almost negligible resistance, nobody barely thought twice about doing it.

        It makes me wonder where people would draw the line.
        Would anyone even draw a line at all if the argument to go through with a specific treatment had enough urgency and a skerrick of plausibility attached to it?

  11. FUDINTHENUDMEMBER

    To be fair to Govt’s everywhere, nobody is really listening to govt communications anymore. Everyone’s mentally done with the Pandemic, even if it ain’t done with them.

    Nobody cares and is just angry. Ask most folks what is it in the Vicco pandemic bill that they’re concerned about, they generally can’t answer you. Just “power grab”/dictator Dan ect.

    Also, it’s a moving target. Pre-delta it was thought kids weren’t getting infected much. Now kids are a major source of transmission in European surge, US and even here. Fun times ahead.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      And their hospitalisation rate from adverse vaccination reaction is higher, much higher, than their hospitalisations from getting Coverd 19 “in the wild”
      No way I’d be giving the Pfizer vaccine to any six-year-old I was responsible for.

      • RobotSenseiMEMBER

        1) The overwhelming (>95%) majority of people coming to hospital for vaccine AE’s go home within 24hrs
        2) The numbers are only that way because of the high vaccination rate we have in the community

        EDIT: unless apologies I have misinterpreted and you’re talking only about the paediatric population

    • Yep. I have been heavily involved in managing the COVID response for work since day dot (state government entity). We have had hundreds of known COVID cases attend our sites, but the number of ongoing transmission from those cases has been in the single figures.

      Frontline staff aren’t particularly worried about catching COVID at work and the Health dept have explicitly told us they aren’t interested in being notified unless there’s confirmation of ongoing transmission. Although most staff are vaccinated and want to be vaccinated, they have also said they don’t care if others are not. Unfortunately, most of the messaging now with our senior management is all about political sensitivities. Vaccinations will be mandated and those who aren’t vaccinated will lose their jobs.

  12. Jumping jack flash

    “…parents that I associate with are highly educated and are all vaccinated. Yet none that us thought the vaccine mandate applied to children. We all thought it only applied to people aged 16 and over.”

    Once you drink the koolaid, you’re expected to bathe in it, and to say it tastes like the finest Chardonnay.
    If you don’t you are branded a filthy anti-vaxxer. *side-eye* You’re not one of those, are you?

    I completed my latest academic qualification this semester and I want to attend the graduation ceremony and take my family. The last time I graduated from something I didn’t have a wife and family and I’d like them to be a part of it.

    I was a little surprised when I received a letter from the university that said if QLD reaches the 80% double vaxxed threshold that I wouldn’t be allowed to attend if I wasn’t double vaxxed myself.

    But, curiously, if 80% is not reached, then I’m able to go. It must be much safer for the dirty unvaxxed, like myself, to attend these things the less people are vaccinated.

    I registered my intent to attend, because I think it will be unlikely that 80% is achieved within the next couple of weeks here in QLD.

    • I was a little surprised when I received a letter from the university that said if QLD reaches the 80% double vaxxed threshold that I wouldn’t be allowed to attend if I wasn’t double vaxxed myself.

      But, curiously, if 80% is not reached, then I’m able to go. It must be much safer for the dirty unvaxxed, like myself, to attend these things the less people are vaccinated.

      Are you sure the letter didn’t say that if the 80% threshold was reached, then all and sundry could attend – if they were double-vaxxed – but if it was not, then only those graduating could attend (regardless of vaccination status) ?

      • Jumping jack flash

        No, I was able to invite guests. My wife is double vaxxed.

        In QLD statewide restrictions come into play for the filthy unvaxxed once the state reaches 80% double vaxxed. Until that time, the unvaxxed are free.

        It reinforces my opinion that the 80% double vaxxed target is for nothing else but to limit resistance or backlash from the public with whatever measures they decide are absolutely justified and necessary to take against the dangerous unvaxxed.

        Incidentally, there is a separate graduation ceremony earmarked for August 2022 that the unvaxxed may attend. I guess everyone will need to don biohazzard suits and breathing apparatus instead of the traditional gown and mortarboard.

  13. Vaccine dose for a 12 year old is 3 times the size of exactly the same substance as 11 year olds in USA are getting. My boy is 12 and 1 month. Must get vaccinated if we go to nsw to return to Qld. Get the gap as wide as possible to reduce chances of myocarditis.

    • Best way to avoid myocarditis is to avoid a vein, I think, so that the bodies reaction occurs in the muscle & not in some other part O f the body, so get the shot aspirated when he gets it.

        • https://youtu.be/HsACTX0_ihs

          Hes mostly correctly. You need to be sure the vaccine is IM and you dont accidentally inject into a vein. The chances are quite low, but not zero – so probably high enough to explain a decent % of adverse/systemic reactions. It is definitely known that injecting an adenovirus based vaccine (such as AZ) into a vein will promote platelet aggregates and therefore increased chance of a clot. Sound familiar? Some countries still teach the old fashioned way where the needle is aspirated, if you get blood in the aspirate you are in a vein.
          With the Pfizer it may be that injecting into a vein puts more of the lipid nano particles into general circulation and they could go anywhere. Maybe irritating tissue surrounding the heart or maybe the spike protein itself has some effect by itself in a subset of patients.

  14. If I lived in Victoria and had a young family, I would get out. Victoria has completely bungled this and has achieved (by a fair margin) the worst outcome on every metric. There does not appear to be a viable opposition.
    Other places could deteriorate. But you can only make these decisions on the information at hand.
    Regional Australia if that is an option
    If you need a city, then Brisbane maybe. Sydney is better than Melbourne, but if you are going to uproot your family you only want to do that once.

    • Talking to a Brisbane agent today, still fielding huge interstate interest for limited stock on market and those are ones ready to buy now (i.e not waiting for borers to open) not sure they understand that they will not be getting much better than Dan Andrews in QLD!

      The difference in COVID management and outcomes between NSW and VIC is stark… so far, when balancing all factors, NSW clearly winning the race (but who knows what’s do come) and both leaders taking very different approaches (one wants to be seen relinquishing control and the other demands a stranglehold on it). Anecdotally, NSW work colleagues far more relaxed and less fatigued than VIC also many VIC to NSW relocations on the basis of ‘what’s VIC realistically offer than NSW doesn’t and in the event of future outbreaks, I would rather live through a NSW approach”

      • Can’t disagree with that. And I think Sydney is a definite step in the right direction if you lived in Melbourne.

        But if Covid breaks out again (and my guess is that it will next Autumn), Brisbane’s warmer climate, lower density living, and fewer enclaves of immigrants suggest it would do better than Sydney.

        Am I thinking of moving from Sydney to Brisbane? No.
        If I lived in Melbourne, would I move to Sydney or Brisbane? Probably Brisbane.

        • I think those last two points are spot on Steve. VIC clearly leading the way in cashed up state exodus.
          Funnily enough, I’ll be giving the (back to) Brisbane transition a go in 3 weeks and our vendors are moving back to Melbourne (for family not freedoms!)

    • ^This.
      I don’t see why people should roll over so quickly. Cant be that hard to say to the dance school sorry we will take our money elsewhere. Find a private teacher with like minded people and DIY. The powers that be will start getting the message.

  15. Interesting that no one mentions Nikolai Petrovski, probably Australia’s foremost expert on vaccines who has developed (along with a small team of 14 scientists) a highly effective and safe protein based vaccine against COVID called Covax. It’s already in use in Iran and the UAE. The Australian government won’t even mention his name or the vaccine. He is a professor at Flinders University and the president of an international organisation of vaccine experts. So near and yet so far.

  16. Personal anecdotes are all well and good, but they aint science nor expertise…. following the LNP, IPA and NewsCorp/media line?

    The nature of Covid required vaccinations to start top down vs. normal system starting bottom up to vaccinate young kids and primary schoolers for life. Meanwhile in the previous northern hemisphere winter, school age kids were identified as intrafamily transmitters (plus teachers too) but oldies were the priority.

    Due to gaps in vaccination, even if 100%, hence, need for sensible restrictions, and European nations are realising that giving freedom from vaccinations and restrictions is simply putting the majority, and their freedom, at risk (while ICUs fill up). Then what happens, whole nation goes into lock down aka Austria…… one predicts next Oz winter will be problematic…..

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