What does the “Labor” Party stand for? Absolutely nuthin’

Labor announced yesterday that it will not make changes to the stage three income tax cuts if it wins the upcoming federal election. It also abandoned the negative gearing and capital gains tax reforms taken to the past two federal elections.

Shadow cabinet formally signed-off on these policy positions yesterday.

Earlier this year, Labor also formally dumped its franking credits policy, which would have abolished franking credit refunds for people who paid no tax.

Agreeing to proceed with the Coalition’s stage three tax cuts is especially perplexing given these would overwhelmingly benefit people earning over $180,000 a year and are forecast to cost $137 billion ($17 billion a year) between the date of their implementation in 2024 and the end of the decade:

Stage 3 tax cuts by income decile

The stage 3 tax cuts overwhelmingly benefit high income earners.

In turn, the Coalition’s stage 3 tax cuts would necessarily increase inequality without providing much stimulus to the economy, since most of the extra disposable income received by high income earners would be saved rather than spent. The $17 billion a year cost of these tax cuts would also help lock in permanent budget deficits.

These policy positions highlight Labor’s biggest problem: that nobody knows what the party stands for. It is supposed to represent the working class (hence the name “Labor”) but instead is Coalition-lite in most policy respects and overly obsessed with identity politics.

Two other recent examples also highlight Labor’s disconnection from its political roots.

First, Labor has failed to stand up against the Morrison Government’s wage-crushing immigration plan, which would enable businesses to hire cheap foreign workers en masse.

Instead, shadow treasurer Jim Chalmers made a statement endorsing immigration-driven growth:

“Much of the growth before COVID-19 relied heavily on population growth”.

“So clearly, it’s not sustainable for us to have closed borders for longer than is necessary.”

Second, Jim Chalmers recently spoke out against lifting JobSeeker from its pitifully low level of $44 a day:

Shadow treasurer Jim Chalmers has indicated Australia’s welfare bill would not rise significantly under a Labor government…

Dr Chalmers is steering away from further plans to substantially ramp up spending on benefits for unemployed and impoverished Australians…

Dr Chalmers will acknowledge income support is a “really crucial part of the story” but will play down its significance in terms of tackling disadvantage.

What is the point of Labor if it is merely a Coalition-lite party that endorses pretty much the same neoliberal policies? Why vote for Labor when you can vote for the real thing?

At this point, the only real difference between Labor and the Coalition is that Labor is far more willing to bend over and grovel to China.

Unconventional Economist
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Comments

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      fckn had one-in-training try that crap on on the train last week. Stare directly over the top of her/his head. Works every time. [I’m assuming you’re over 5’6” here]

      Deciding to queue up in front of me for the door from behind me and being surprised I can walk in a straight line was the deciding factor in finally having had enough of that. Finally.

    • The Traveling Wilbur

      If you were still referring to your 48TB of pr0n and its content, my apologies for the misunderstanding. 😨

    • C'est de la folieMEMBER

      The concept to apply the question ‘what does Labor stand for?’ to is what would an ALP government do if it were to win the next election?

      At the moment we need to assume the ALP (inter alia)

      Won’t alter a tax regime skewed heavily to the upper end of town
      Won’t do anything substantial about house prices – the prices Australians and their kids are looking at paying.

      From its previous enunciations we can assume that the ALP would also

      Do nothing about the degradation and the SES level nepotism and corruption of the public sector – starting with the concept of ‘service delivery’ which sees any Australian wanting to access a public service shunted though a load of phone batteries …’We value your call’ or self help menus online and has delivered Robodebt (inter alia).

      Do nothing about immigration volumes into Australia – and would presumably seek to return Australian to a NOM of 200k plus per annum as soon as possible – in order to return demand growth to the GDP, leading to:-

      Do nothing about student visas and university costs – meaning some corruption beneficiary from India or China or anywhere really will be bidding against you or your kids when they go to rent or buy somewhere, or your kids will be saddled with the world’s largest University debts for some of the worlds most spectacularly irrelevant university courses.

      Do nothing about incomes growth being nailed to the floor – because all those students and migrants will take whatever work they can get.

      Do nothing (meaningful) about infrastructure crowding – sure they will ladle out public contracts to their mates the same way the Torynuffs do for theirs to build bridges, intersections, railways lines public housing, ensure internet etc – but will never actually alleviate all that much apart from maybe some of the noise in those nicer inner burbs.

      More importantly than the above we can assume that the ALP (in government) would do nothing about improving the diversity of the Australian economy through encouraging value added exports utilizing Australian employees – meaning that Australia would remain a quarry/farm subject to major market fluctuations, presumably remain inordinately dependent upon China (which the ALP would be currying favor with), and would remain a low income growth economy dependent on continued floods of immigration to maintain the illusion of prosperity, with high levels of social crowding, selling its national bequest for a very diminished, and diminishing, per capita return for its people.

      Of course that will all presumably come with a flavor of ‘all males are toxic’ and ‘we need to discriminate against men’ (particularly if they are working men) of the type the ALP seems to currently adhere to, while at the same time any ICAC would be geared towards not catching the number of ALP figures equally complicit in corruption as their Torynuff counterparts.

      Whilst the ScoMo government is an absolute disgrace, the ALP is well worth saying ‘No means No!’ to as well.

      Electoral and parliamentary chaos is Australia’s only way out from here. Maybe a few decent independents getting up and by sheer luck getting a say in the balance of power. The ALP is not a progressive hope at all. It is the 1%’s alternative reality hope. The 1% will get their tax cuts and their ‘growth’ dividends from their shares in retailers and telcos and banks.

      The 1% will still get revolving door treatment into senior public sector positions, will still control Australia’s fairly pathetic loss leading press, will still provide the bulk of Australia’s academics and ‘professional’ types – not to mention medicos – accessing the negative gearing and taxation concessions and leaving everyday Australia to struggle on as best they can.

      But ordinary Australians will get sweet FA from any ALP government – scraps from the table after the choice cuts have gone to much the same people getting them under ScoMo’s Torynuff government.

      • Bravo! I hate both major parties, because they are both neoliberal, as you say, but what really stopped me from putting Labor second last was the parent visa proposal, not removing negative gearing, which was a good idea. We have a health care system that is creaking at the seams, and Labor wanted to overload it even more with huge numbers of elderly people, not to mention the stress of the extra people on our infrastructure and environment, all for people who have never contributed and are never going to contribute. There was also a good chance that many of them would have eventually ended up on welfare, regardless of whatever their children initially promised. I would be surprised if this was not a much bigger issue than negative gearing, but Labor can’t talk about it because they want to pretend that the parent visa thing never happened.

        • Even StevenMEMBER

          Agreed. Parental visa literally rendered Labor unfit for government. I cannot fully describe my dislike of their proposal without descending to vulgarity. It is that bad. What were they thinking. There is no justification. An utter betrayal of the community you profess to serve.

  1. Open borders and Woke choices.

    Don’t care about Woke choices, ​and encourage it if it clamps down on the religious “hate the [email protected]” LNP church choices.

    Open borders chain migration the real killer.

    • Kristine Keneally (IF the ALP get in) will launch the boats just like her predecessor Chris Evans did in 2007 when he abolished Temporary Protection Visas. That decision cost Australian battlers a few billion.
      The ALP are clueless. We’re better off with this corrupt mob in power now. The alternative is worse.

        • Have a look at her recent comments. In particular the failed asylum seekers from Biloela, It doesn’t take much to launch the boats.

          • I don’t think the emotive Biloela case is a good example, Barnaby Jpyce and Colin Boyce have both supported this case too.

          • Who says they have much of a clue either. Let’s look at Immigration ministers from 2007 onwards until Abbot’s win. Bowen was competent. The rest were like rabbits in the spotlight as the numbers of boats per day escalated. Unfortunately the department was looking to the Minister for guidance and the Minister was looking to the Department for guidance. Both were found lacking.

  2. RobotSenseiMEMBER

    Well, that and the minor point that the Liberals are morally bankrupt, openly corrupt, and have no idea in procurement of and running a vaccination program. They are run by a disproportionate number of the lunatic fringe, content to “get what’s mine” either during or shortly after their term.

    A federal ICAC would sort most of this crap out, but not surprisingly the Libs won’t commit to one. The Nationals in two words: Barnaby Joyce.

    I don’t give a hoot if you don’t want to vote Labor. But this current mob of s3xpests, looters and weirdos needs to go ASAP.

    • Lord DudleyMEMBER

      I’ve noticed a large tendency for people to blame the party that isn’t in power for not holding the LNP to account or provide a good enough alternative. The demented logic is “Labor sucks so much that people didn’t elect them, so it’s Labor’s fault that the LNP (who are even worse) hold power. Therefore I’m voting LNP to teach Labor a lesson”.

      This sentiment is surprisingly common. It’s yet another reason (along with half of Australians actively wanting what the LNP delivers, and Murdoch propaganda) that the LNP will not lose a federal election in the next few decades.

      • Fishing72MEMBER

        I’ve literally never heard a single person state that they’ll vote for the LNP to teach the ALP a lesson and I live in Australia……surrounded by Australians. So you know this isn’t just the vacuous theoretical opinion of someone on the opposite side of the planet.

        • Eh, my experience is different. 4 of my mates, in different walks of life have expressed the sentiment of: “faaark, imagine if labor was in power, we’d be is so much sh*t right about now” … when I point out that these guys have spent like sailors on crack and it all went to the wrong places they look at me as if I’m doing their moms in front of them …

          Sure, not a representative cross section of the society, but if there’s four of them, there may be more than ‘none’ out there

          • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

            My LNP voting mates typical response to that is,
            “The ALP would have wasted more”.
            Ya just cant win with some people.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            “B-b-b-b-b-but Labor!” has been the goto refrain of the right, and its overwhelming media influence, for the better part of twenty years (picking a somewhat arbitrary start from Howard’s “interest rates will always be lower under a Liberal Government” boast of the early 00’s).

            It is a struggle to think of a single aspect of contemporary conservative thought and politics that is not some variation on “not the left”.

          • This article is about Labor. The comment at the top of this chain is ‘B-b-b-b-b-but Liberals!’.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            No, the comment at the top of this thread is highlighting a couple of ways in which the Liberals are current, actively and actually fvcking the country, in response to the absurdly rhetorical “at this point, the only real difference between Labor and the Coalition is that Labor is far more willing to bend over and grovel to China.”

          • Even StevenMEMBER

            @drsmithy
            One party will require me to learn Mandarin. The other won’t. Otherwise I see precious little difference and they’re both disgraceful.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            One party will require me to learn Mandarin. The other won’t. Otherwise I see precious little difference and they’re both disgraceful.

            As Gav said the other day. Can’t fix stupid.

    • RomulusMEMBER

      Yep main reason Lab will be ranked above Liberal for mine. Libs will only be worse & egregious next time – now that’s a scary thought. Rewarding them for bad behaviour.

  3. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    Clearly the inner circle of political spin doctors, pollsters and apparatchiks within the ALP don’t believe they can win against the LNPs anti tax campaigning and lets face it,…they haven’t been able to do so in a long time inspite of an LNP full of corrupt duds.
    The Overton window is so far to the right now that the establishment, both it’s progressive and conservative factions, have completely lost touch with common every day working people and closed ranks around what political issues are up for discussion.
    I hear next to NO class issues discussed at all on the ABC but on the Drum and Q&A tonight just the usual endless circle jerking around sexism within privileged sectors.
    I found it fascinating tonight to how they (these privileged insiders) all insisted that everyone of those shutdown protesters and Anti Vaxers were “Right wingers” and yet their pannel universally was calling for harsh penalties and greater punishment by the state for these “super spreaders”.
    These same panelists had no problems with the BLM protests during the last lock down though.
    Just so much partisanship
    around this endless, woke, bourgeois circle jerk over these establishment approved issues.
    And just all so deceptive and disingenuous.

    The “Right wing” accusations made I found particularly interesting.
    With few exceptions nearly all people I know who are “anti vax” types are females who vote ALP or Greens, you know hippy, holistic Health types.
    Where as the hard core social conservatives in my orbit, practicing Catholics, evangelicals, Proud LNP voters etc are the people I know to be first of the rank in getting vaccinated?
    Its like I live in a totally different world to the one the ABC is talking about.

    The mainstream media has little to say against irresponsible upper middle class tax cuts and when Labor does they get their electrol ar$es kicked for it.

    • Lord DudleyMEMBER

      “Anti Vaxers were “Right wingers” and yet their pannel universally was calling for harsh penalties and greater punishment by the state for these “super spreaders”.”

      Ha ha ha ha! You’re now equating irresponsible psycho self-selecting plague-rats with your beloved “working class” (which now doesn’t include office workers apparently). And because your beloved “working class” can do no wrong, and you think they made up the bulk of the protestors, then the protestors can do no wrong.

      The bodies will start piling up soon. Plague-rat apologists such as yourself will be rightly loathed. The plague rats themselves should be harshly prosecuted. How much mask wearing and distancing did you see at this so-called “protest”? Almost none! These people are hyper-irresponsible morons and this was most likely a super-spreader event that doomed all efforts to eradicate COVID-19 until vaccines are widely available.

      The protestors have blood on their hands. They are being coddled by a weak police force (who use weak terms like “boof heads”).

      If these people really represent your working class, then your working class is doomed, because no-one with a brain will ever take up any cause with them ever. The more of these slobs that are harshly prosecuted, the better! Ha ha ha!

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Do you apply these same harsh words to the BLM protesters who also gathered during a lock down Mr Partisan

          • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

            Lol,…I notice you Didn’t answer the question.
            Again I see.
            Tell me how you are different from that IPA astro turfer 3d1k

          • Lord DudleyMEMBER

            I am 3D1K! And your question was irrelevant. If you’d like an answer, then sure, I think BLM protests should be had every day without masks and the protestors should spit on each other and any bystanders they encounter, and be permitted to do so by the authorities. There, now I’m the hypocritical moron you want me to be. But even if I am, SO WHAT? It doesn’t invalidate any of my previous points.

            This is why whataboutism is a waste of time. You’ve derailed into ranting about BLM, me, and some demented ex-poster. Boring! You’re boring! Stop boring everybody!

            Ha ha!

          • Fishing72MEMBER

            Why is it that I can also imagine Scott Morrison leaping and looning about at Engadine Maccas, in his sh1t caked pants, whilst yelling at his mates who are staring on in stunned disbelief, that the the only reason they too didn’t sh1t their pants was because they were “ boring…..so boring!”?

          • lol, calling out hypocrisy = whataboutism
            textbook deflection from the moraliser.

            Your church of choice just slapped you in the face with the reality that their highest conviction policies, driven by “sound economics” and an unshakable moral compass are in fact based on nothing but a windsock.

            And yet the first thing that jumps to your mind is……. partisan whataboutism! Hilarious!

          • That doesn’t address the legitimate question. The same people on this site who were even claiming burn loot murder was a valid organisation are the same ones frothing at the keyboard at the recent protests. Oh but you’re the good guys of course, not like those other non humans so you’re obvious lying and deception is ok.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            lol, calling out hypocrisy = whataboutism
            textbook deflection from the moraliser.

            Now there’s some weapons grade irony.

            The conversation above:

            LD: Point
            EP: But what about this vaguely similar but unrelated thing !?
            LD: That’s whataboutism.
            EP: No, really, what about the thing ?

            Result: Discussion successfully misdirected.

        • Too right you are.

          Does no-one find it strange that the BLM protests in the middle of last lockdown were fine, while now these protests aren’t?

          Same goes for people walking outdoors on a crowded Bondi Beach boardwalk are fine, while a march down into the CBD is not?

          Laws need to be applied consistently, Australia is heading for one set of laws for the rich and another for the poor.

        • drsmithyMEMBER

          The obvious difference would be that during the BLM protests, people were mostly wearing masks, with masks being proactively distributed throughout the crowds to people who didn’t already have them.

          As opposed to, you know, deliberately trying to make the whole COVID situation much worse through both actions and objectives.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        “Ha ha ha ha! You’re now equating irresponsible psycho self-selecting plague-rats with your beloved “working class” (which now doesn’t include office workers apparently). And because your beloved “working class” can do no wrong”

        Ive never said the Working class can do no wrong.
        I think the Protest was unnecessary and unhelpful and I also think anti Vaxers are dumb.
        But I don’t agree with your Fascist/Stalinist demands that these people be “Crushed” (Your exact word) nor do I like you dehumanising them by calling them all SewerRats repeatedly, again and again.
        Its how Nazis used to talk about J3Ws I imagine.
        I would choose to reason with them, offer to pay them more money to stay at home.
        You would exterminate them.
        I would rather see the human race become extinct than run by Big Brother cnts like you.

        • Lord DudleyMEMBER

          “Its how Nazis used to talk about J3Ws I imagine.”

          Ha ha ha ha! You think enforcing public health orders against self selecting super spreader scofflaws during the worst pandemic in a century is comparable to the deliberate extermination of an entire ethnic group and attempt to enslave the entire population of Eastern Europe.

          It’s gold, Jerry, gold!

          • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

            Like the advice you gave to Boom.
            Maybe you should stand In front of the mirror and read aloud what you have written about about these misguided fellow citizens with genuine, legitimate grievances.
            Oh thats right your a Yank
            Why are you even here commenting on all of this?
            Is it just schadenfreude?
            You seem to be completely manic and totally loving our whole Covid-19 debacle at the same time.
            Get on some meds dude.
            I used to like you.

          • You used to make some good points in the past, but lately you sound unhinged. Everything ok bloke?

          • Gubec it appears that the mask has come off hence polluting the site with his dribble.

          • ChinajimMEMBER

            @EP I don’t think His Lordship has used the term “sewer rats”, ever. He’s used the term “plague rats”. The meanings in this context are quite different. The term “plague rat” during a pandemic clearly refers to a type of behaviour that is likely to spread the disease and the term is therefore more meaningful and accurate, if a little crude, than the de-humanising “sewer rat”.

          • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

            I think both are dehumanising terms that are all to often applied right before justifying the use of extreme violence against the “Other”.

            Now,…if I asked my 11 year old boy to draw me a picture of a plague rat AND a sewer rat.
            Both pictures would look exactly the same.
            Well,…maybe there would be a bit more Green on the plague rat and Brown with corn bits on the Sewer rat,…but otherwise you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

      • MountainGuinMEMBER

        Sure the protest should not happen in a pandemic. But where the media just name calls “right wingers” without listening or acknowledging the issues at play, issues will get worse. If I had no income for a month and was looking at no income for many more months because Gladys didn’t want to address the Bondi breakout and Gladys and Scomo had been allowing heaps of non Aussie international travel, I would be mighty pi$$ed. If I was angry enough to protest and the media only backed Gladys and tried to undermine my voice, I’d be even more pi$$ed.
        I think Gladys should give up her salary for the duration of the lockdown

        • drsmithyMEMBER

          What proportion of the signs at those protests were asking for better social security, would you like to hazard a guess ?

    • Anders Andersen

      EP, when you were up at Cloudbreak did you not hear the tradies constantly whine about paying too much tax? Greed by everyone is why they have ditched their opposition to the cuts and any idea of fairness. Oh, and most just want to get on the gravy train.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        There were large screen TVs everywhere at Cloudbreak.
        In the wet mess, the dry mess, in the Gym, at the airport (only 750 m from the camp) in all social, non work areas.
        By order of Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest himself all TVs were constantly tuned into Sky “News”.
        Id never worked on a job so right leaning,…labor voters generally kept their mouths shut (not me though).
        I found it astounding that on a 2000 man mining camp, over 3 and a half years I worked there, I only came across a dozen or so Union members.
        FMG workers were frequently brainwashed into believing they were all part of a big family with Papa Twiggy at its head.

        It was a relentlessly rolled out narrative by management and Twiggy every time he turned up at the wet mess, stand on a beer drinking table and give his little scripted speech.

        I would often hang shyte on him, to 100s FMG workers, over the years there, just to amuse myself.
        It was like opening a discussion, with a true believing Christian or Muslim, about the huge un-likelyhood of the existence of a supreme being.
        I got pulled up for this behaviour of mine many times.

        • I spend a lot of time at Christmas Creek. The general consensus is Forrest is a massive flog. They get the same scripted “red dust on our boots” every year and it doesn’t go down well.

          As to voting intention, I’d say pretty right wing. But these guys are on well over $100k, $170 for trades. Id be a little surprised if they didn’t vote for their own massive tax cuts.

          I did hear one fitter call his mate a tool when he whinged about paying tax on $180k. “Fxxc off back to Perth if you don’t want to pay tax”

    • drsmithyMEMBER

      The “Right wing” accusations made I found particularly interesting.
      With few exceptions nearly all people I know who are “anti vax” types are females who vote ALP or Greens, you know hippy, holistic Health types.
      Where as the hard core social conservatives in my orbit, practicing Catholics, evangelicals, Proud LNP voters etc are the people I know to be first of the rank in getting vaccinated?
      Its like I live in a totally different world to the one the ABC is talking about.

      Uh huh. And how about the public faces and social media “influencers” ? You know, the people actually creating and driving all this “division” you claim to be concerned about ?

      Could you make an estimate of how many of the signs being held up were asking for better social security and more secure employment conditions ?

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Well you wouldn’t have heard it on the ABC last night if there were any working class or left leaning individuals in the protests.
        The Narrative had already been fully decided. That much was crystal clear.
        I actually thought Julia Baird was going to say “Working class” people but she refrained at the last minute and said small business people and “people like us” instead.

        Amanda Rose was the only one who didn’t denigrate all the protesters or call for their blood.
        Good on her.
        Juli Leask on the other hand spoke of the need to silence and eradicate there “degenerate behaviour”
        She sounded Bob Santamaria talking about [email protected] in the 1950s!

        Peter FitzSimons (the only bloke out of 6) was his usual chest thumping self.
        At least he wasn’t wearing that usual d!ckhead bandana of his.

          • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

            A young working class fellow in our street (early/mid 20s?) was there with a bunch of his mates.
            I can assure you they are all working class plebs with insecure work the lived experience of their entire adult lives.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            And ? Nobody ever suggested there weren’t “working class” people there.

            By your rationale I can say it was a feminist protest because some women attended.

          • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

            Are all feminists right wingers?
            Of course they are not.
            Whats your point?

  4. The Traveling Wilbur

    The National Anthem.

    Just that.
    After selling out on tax cuts for people earning 200k yesterday, just that.

    It was all jokes before, but after that, why bother voting Labor. I’d rather vote Green and make someone put pressure on the Govt. That’ll be the lesson from the next election.

    Ohhh… It’s all too hard to explain to the average punter… ohhh… can’t run with contentious policy into the next election… ohhh we don’t want to take the focus of our spectacular housing affordability [trust me] policy [this is all about that]…

    Bring back Kevin.
    And Buck Shelford.

      • Well, the Australian lumpentariat can’t be reasoned with: refer last election
        By taking Stage 3 off the table (Woot, looking forward to those tax cuts), and NG/CGT, they can go hard on other stuff.

        Let’s see where we land on immigration.

        I think RobotSensei said it best. I’ve had enough of the outright balls to the wall corruption and s3x pesting and gaslighting and rank incompetence in public health.

    • BradleyMEMBER

      I hope that is the case ” whatever it takes” and all that. If they get the huge majority as a result of massive LNP pandemic failings , a little blowback from some lies would be manageable, especially after the lack of impact on the vast majority is really understood.

    • drsmithyMEMBER

      And then going into the subsequent election having to defend both “lying” and raising taxes ? I don’t think they’d have thought that cunning plan all the way through.

      • BradleyMEMBER

        Never underestimate the gullibility of the Aussie voter based on the 2019 election/

  5. Yeah. That makes sense. “You want LNP. We are the LNP, just without the rapists, the corruption”.
    What’s wrong with that strategy? I would say a lot of people would warm to that.

    • fitzroyMEMBER

      Its the unflagging desire to destroy the electorate and pass the loot to the sponsors that annoys me. Rapists and corruption are found in every political party.

    • No corruption in the ALP? Only lately and only due to lack of opportunity – what with them being in opposition and all. Eddie Obeid is about to be finally sentenced. Senior ALP members would have at least strongly suspected his corruption and did nothing.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Sure but a little corruption, unchallenged, ALWAYS breeds more corruption.
        The longer the LNP remain in power the more corrupt and indifferent they will become.
        Same same if the ALP were allowed to rule for too long.

        Thats the real basis of Anarchist and democratic ideals.
        Not that you have to smash and destroy and burn down all your enemies,..but rather it says you need to always hold power in contempt (Whether it wielded by “Your side” or not) and to ALWAYS demand that it justify its self.
        It acknowledges that all self governing institutions will ALWAYS become corrupt and that the only solution is a tight and relentless leash of democratic accountability to people outside the inner workings (and beneficiaries) of any institutional structure in our society.

        Even if you are generally inclined to vote for the LNP and feel that they are most aligned to your world view you still meed to vote them out next election as they have just become too hopelessly corrupt.

        They need a shake out.

        If the ALP were in for the same period of time no doubt they would need a shake out too.

        LNP voters have a responsibility to vote them out this time inspite of your partisan leanings for the sake of your own credibility as a worthwhile citizen.

        • I think you’re right there. Power is corrupting. Relatively few politicians seem able to resist.

    • TheLambKingMEMBER

      “You want LNP. We are the LNP, just without the rapists, the corruption”.

      and a semblance of a climate policy!

    • drsmithyMEMBER

      It’s useless against all the people who think they’re both as bad as each other (ie: Rustadons), and alienates swinging voters making a decision based on policies and principles.

      In other words, it’s highly unlikely to gain them any votes from the LNP base, and will almost certainly lose them votes to the Greens who aren’t abandoning fundamental principles like progressive taxation.

      Which hypothetically isn’t that bad – a minority Labor/Greens Government is about the best outcome we could hope for in the current circumstances – but Labor seem like they would rather be in Opposition, than share power.

  6. So if it’s a pox on both their houses the only solution is to encourage independents. Look at Helen Haines in Indi.

  7. Ronin8317MEMBER

    They voted to give themselves a tax cut. What’s the point of trying to balance the budget anyway? Australia have gone full MMT.

  8. working class hamMEMBER

    So the 45k to 200k will be paying 30% and somehow this is a tax cut for the elite? Give me a break.
    Company tax rate is already 27.5% for turnover under 50m. That’s right, a bogus company made up entirely of a single family, drawing minute wages, to avoid tax, write off all asset purchases and receive Govt assistance like family tax benefits upto 10k a year can turnover 49.9 million without paying 30%.
    PAYG workers who earn over 120k a year get zero govt assistance, why is a tax cut so repugnant for these middle class workers?
    They are emergency services pulling down OT on the weekends, fifo workers sacrificing time with their families, professionals doing obscene hours to get ahead. This is not passive income, this is actual productivity, not BS ticket clipping.

    Maybe, if the tax system was actually skewed the other way, with labour getting all of the concessions, you wouldn’t have a society full of rentseeking lazy [email protected]%e [email protected]%ts.

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      Yeah this place is full of fascist commie scum! They want to take away all of our freedoms and profits, make us behave the same, and use brut force on dissenters. We need to fight them!

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      I agree.
      All personal income taxes should be abolished and replaced with consumption taxes, tariffs on imports and 51% government ownership of all natural resource extraction.
      Who’s gunna second the motion!?

    • @WCH the company you describe would be interesting to audit? Lots of existing Tax & other Legislation that would knock that for 6 & Centrelink/FTB legislation as well. Maybe need more Tax Audits?

      • working class hamMEMBER

        The sad part is that these companies are everywhere, not to 49.9m extent obviously, they are completely legal.
        Families earning 200k a year but drawing sub 50k wages for each adult, children with TFN drawing max amount of pay without getting taxed, milking every benefit possible from the Govt, receiving 10k a year in FTB, whilst cars/other assets are owned/being written off by the business.
        These kind of businesses are the LNP sweet spot, the have a go to get a go crowd.

    • drsmithyMEMBER

      This is a step towards a flat (or at most two-tiered) income tax structure.

      The next move will be to (try and) remove the top rate.

      It’s a transparent attack on progressive taxation.

      If they were really interested in tax relief for the common punters, they’d be raising the tax-free threshold, which would deliver the biggest benefits to the people most in need of it, and introducing additional brackets and higher rates for high income earners to “pay” for it.

      • C'est de la folieMEMBER

        If they were really interested in tax relief for the common punters, they’d be raising the tax-free threshold, which would deliver the biggest benefits to the people most in need of it.

        This above all.

        • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

          Yes I have always thought increasing the tax free threshold should be the only tax cuts Labor should support.

    • Totally agree. In Australia if you earn a decent PAYG income people think you are an elitist who should be taxed into obsolescence, never mind the work you had to put in to get that income (education, hours, sacrifices). But if you are blessed with assets or a company, you can hide all your debts in the expenses column, run your life on a corporate card and be an employee of the company to pay minimal personal taxes.

      Look at a lot of real estate business owners, literally everything that costs them money is run through the business. Their yacht is entertainment, their Porsche is a depreciating business asset, dinners out are with “clients”, their partner is an employee earning a base wage which pays the mortgage. The PAYG gets every dollar clipped above 45% past $180k and nowhere to hack the system except negative gearing or farms (below $250K a year).

      Moral of the story in Australia. Don’t work for anyone and earn a high income. Contract, consult or start a family trust and outsource the tax dodge to the accountant.

  9. We need a new political party. It happened in France with Macron, perhaps it will happen here?

    Needs money and media backing, though

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Then it’ll just be another money controlled, pro Plutocracy, centre right party just like the LNP.
      May as well just vote LNP as there would be next to no difference.

      Now a party that has its policy platforms guided by direct democracy,…that might have a chance of changing something.
      Maybe.

      • Jumping jack flash

        This.

        However everyone aspires to the Liberal ideology, ie, the ideology the Liberal party represents.
        Who doesn’t want to be filthy rich sitting on a pile of someone else’s debt? There’s nothing easier in the world, and the Libs proclaim that they’re the ones who can make it happen, and keep it happening. And furthermore, any other party who dares to suggest alternative policy is in danger of upsetting this ideology.
        What’s not to love?

  10. BradleyMEMBER

    The LNP won’t fix things, Labor won’t fix things so it’s up to the pandemic to fix things. Hardly a plan but it’s our only hope. Fingers crossed Gladys’s and ScoMo’s combined ineptitude keeps Sydney in lockdown till Xmas and the crazy ( but ultimately useful) people keep spreading it far and wide.

    • Crazy but ultimately useful people. LoL, I like that.

      The longer the borders are closed the better off we all are.

      • working class hamMEMBER

        The insanity of relying on a virus to change society is so Aussie it hurts.

        • If a power for good happens to be a microscopic virus, well, go with what you’ve got. If someone told me he was Superman and he could p1ss mass immigration away with a mighty Super Golden Shower, I’d offer to hold his d1ck.

        • BradleyMEMBER

          I will be part of anyone but the LNP ( Nationals in my electorate) campaign that a small group of local disaffected ALP and Greens types will be running for the federal election. The fingers crossed for international border closures and Sydney lockdown stuff ups is plan B. Whatever it takes.

  11. “”It is far better to be defeated while attempting to implement Labor policies than to be defeated after surrendering them. I do not believe we can win by surrendering these or, if by any chance we did win, that winning would be worthwhile.””…………. Dr Jim Cairns, Australian Treasurer, Whitlam Government, 1975 Budget strategy paper

  12. What I think this article fails to understand is that most people just want the government to leave them alone, especially if they aren’t in the inner circle. A “do nothing” party, who will support people in their hour of need, but otherwise tries to keep things stable is exactly what the locals want.

    i.e. the platform for the stereotypical non-city aussie.
    1. Closed borders/stable population. Stop letting people in. Great for my wage, taxes, local environment that I hike on the weekends with, or the local river I fish at, the beach I swim at, etc.
    2. Don’t touch my tax. Middle class workers already pay the lion share of income tax. Especially if touching things like negative gearing puts me out of my job and into negative equity. I work hard, I want to enjoy some of it.
    3. Stop development of dog box houses around me. The clearing of land means there’s less trails for the average aussie to mountain bike on the weekend for example. There’s also less traffic on those backroads on the way to work if you just stop this. My Sunday drives are now impacted because of point 1.
    4. If you are doing to build infrastructure build community rather than business infrastructure (toll roads, coal seam gas wells, airports, etc can stop). Build something for me. Otherwise default position should be to “do nothing”. I don’t want a bypass around my town, I don’t want the ground under my house to shake, I just want to be left alone. Please do nothing.
    5. Let me enjoy the “aussie lifestyle”. I’m a productive worker, the reason I stay in Australia if I have skills is because of the lifestyle. Lifestyle, especially outdoor lifestyle, is Australia’s competitive advantage. If that means locking up borders so we are protected from COVID please do so.

    Assumption: The average person has very little political power, therefore any change/or something the government does at best neglects them – at worst makes their life worse for someone else who has political power. Therefore most changes for the average person are negative unless the government is FORCED to do them (e.g. emergency jobkeeper). DOING NOTHING is exactly the party in this environment people want and desire – it allows people to work within the increasingly corrupt government system and still get something for themselves.

    Even the millennials are starting to recognize on the whole things are getting worse and are nostalgic for the life that a previous era enjoyed (house prices lower, more job security, a lower paced lifestyle). This all involves doing nothing, stopping what you are doing, and ensuring the settings so you can continue doing that. Most people don’t like change.

    TL;DR A government that is doing a good job should hardly if ever need to be talked about. If they are doing their job right you can almost forget their influence on your daily life.

    • I like your thinking.

      All my early life I used to be able to go to the beach with a fishing rod if I felt like it and try to catch a few bream. I started doing this with my Dad when I was about five at the Northern Rivers beach where my family settled back in the 1850s. When I had sons of my own I did it with them. Now I have to seek permission from the gummint to do this, pay a fee and carry my licence with me at all times in case I’m required to show it to the gummint agent who can demand my papers from me at any time.

      Deranged nutters with power over us who want to intrude into every aspect of our lives, for our own good, of course.

      • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

        Yes agree,…Fishing licences for individual citizens is a disgrace.

        What part of the Northern Rivers brother?

        Ive spent a lot of time in the Nambucca region in past years.

        • Ballina, Richmond River, Evans Head, Iluka, Yamba, Clarence River…God’s own country!

          • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

            Ah,…a beautiful part of the world.
            My dad, a marine engineer in the merchant Navy, used to sail into Grafton up the Clarence river in triple expansion Steam powered cargo ships in the early 50s.
            Woulda been wild and wooly country back then.

      • Mate we used to throw fat 35plus cm Bream back because we knew if they were around then we’d hook a Jewie. and yet these days we take Aussie salmon home …says it all.

        • Man, those were the days. I can remember seeing the Tailor feeding on the smaller fish. You could stand on the beach and see hundreds of fish in the water in the face of each wave. If you could get among the Tailor with sardines on 3 or 4 ganged hooks…man, happy days for the beach fisherman. Happy days which seem to be largely behind us…:-(

          • Yep just the other day I was telling my boy about exactly that. Seeing Tailor so thick that you’d just throw a spinner and likely jag one if they didn’t bite. These were solid fish, big greenbacks, a 1.5Kg Tailor was nothing. And so much fun off the beach yet my boy thinks I’m telling tall tales. That’s just how it was, obviously not all the time, but June till September you’d see big schools of Tailor working the beach every afternoon

      • Sounds great LSWCHP. Wouldn’t know where to start fishing in that region but having been there a few times I can see why it would be a great spot. Thanks for the list of places; hopefully we get to venture out of lockdown soon!

    • TheLambKingMEMBER

      This pretty much sums up why Labor lost the last election! And why Labor have come up with those ‘not changing it’ policies! It sums up my non-caring-about-politics-herald-sun-reading-because-it-has-the-biggest-sport-section mate (and a large % of the population)

      • I was up there visiting Mum and Dad in early June. We took Dad down to Evan’s Head and had a stroll on the beach and out the breakwater. The water was lovely. We used to spend our holidays at EH, with a lot of time spent fish off the North wall of the breakwater. Caught many, many fish there, and never had to pay for a license.

    • Anders Andersen

      “A “do nothing” party, who will support people in their hour of need, but otherwise tries to keep things stable is exactly what the locals want.”
      Bullshido to that, scratch an Australian and you’ll generally find a big gov supporter. Go back to the states, Mr Anchorage.

      • TheLambKingMEMBER

        I don’t they are saying they want a party to rip up all the ‘big gov’ things (like healthcare and schools) at all! What they are saying is they don’t want anything to change – they like big gov as it stands. Going to a little gov is ‘change’ – which they don’t want – as they know it will cost them money!

    • drsmithyMEMBER

      That’s not a “do nothing” party. What you have described is all interventionist policy.

      And you haven’t even touched on things like public healthcare, public schooling and similar policies all of which are generally very strongly supported by the people (especially when asked about in a non-politicised way).

      You’ve written “do nothing”, but what you mean is “leave thing the way they are because I like them”.

      • RobotSenseiMEMBER

        Lots of online commentary of late has been of the “ALP = socialism” variety, probably by card-carrying members of the Medicare cult.

      • Schematics Smithy. Do nothing does not mean leave government out of it. It means just don’t change macro settings or government policy (i.e. a second derivative of government influence on our lives). “Do nothing” is a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” mentality. Over the past 20 years or so we seem to be making more bad changes than good (housing, immigration, environment, IR laws, etc etc).

        The interventions that were decided in a previous era, when the average person had more political power, and therefore more likely to be the correct ones most people are fine with. Public schooling, healthcare, etc where the market isn’t great at provisioning these is fine. Note the assumptions in my post – governments are more corrupt and less trusted than the past. i.e leave the interventions like basic health, worker rights, etc that existed before the 2000’s alone – don’t do anything with them.

        “Do Nothing” does not equal to leave it to the market. “Do nothing” is a sign that in the current political environment no political party has won the right to change anything including making things more liberal/free market. That does not apply to previous decisions.

        For example if my local river is catching fire due a coal seam gas well that’s the government “approving” this development. Even market approved developments usually are a result of a government CHANGE (i.e. the opposite of doing nothing) to zoning as a result usually of some political influence. Many private sector decisions, in particular around land use and common resources, require the government to approve and approve doing something.

        If a party could be trusted then maybe the electorate would trust the poltiicans to make “changes”. Right now, at the party level, people want a party that doesn’t make changes I would assert. That doesn’t mean they don’t want government – they just don’t want the parties to touch it. Look at our current breed of politicians – would you trust any of them with your country? Your livelihood?

        i.e. for the environment to be further degraded someone has to approve the zoning/development. For more people to immigrate to our shores government departments need to “APPROVE” them. In other words they are doing something.

      • And yes for most people “leaving things just as they are” because “thats how I like them” sums it up. That’s not necessarily a bad thing; if on the whole you have a pretty good system that works reasonably well given the current population we have and its generally a nice place to live and work. No system is perfect; but accepting Australia has gone down the corruption rankings recently, and everyone including the 20 yr olds I know nostalgic for a time before they were even born it probably stands to reason that the current trajectory of change isn’t all that spectacular…

        If you are going to change something you better have a very good justified reason for it. There is more to lose than gain from here.

    • I want a government that does a lot, including radical transformations. The cornerstone of that comment is that it must be in the best interest of the majority of Australian citizens.

      Fixing the housing issue is in the majority interest.
      Bettering the environment is in the majority interest.
      Improving education is in the majority interest.
      Improving economic diversity in the majority interest.
      Going 100% renewable is in the majority interest.
      Transparent government and business is in the majority interest.
      Anti corruption is in the majority interest.

      If you look at all these issues, its vested interests and lobbying money which has won the war. It tells me that Govt is fundamentally corrupt. Leave me alone doesn’t go far enough, we need a full reversal of the current state.

      We need patriots in government who act in the interest of the majority.

      • Fixing the housing issue is in the majority interest.
        But is it really in the majority interest?
        at the moment we still have home ownership up around 70% (and as every Aussie knows the 30% that rent are scum)
        With this in mind it is in the majority interest to inflate the price of housing.
        Have you ever talked to a GenY/Z before and after buying a house? The transformation is incredible one day they’re wanting the housing affordability problem fixed yet it seems that post house purchase they become the greatest Nimby on the planet and within a year they’re full card carrying members of the Housing religious party.
        Frankly it’s embarrassing just how quickly they change their tune and fall in line with the “majority”

        • Its in the majority interest to get capital out of housing and into more productive areas of the economy. Part of being in govt (or it used to be) was selling difficult concepts to a populous explaining why changes need to happen and how it will benefit everyone moving forward.

          Flipping ever higher priced non productive assets to each other is a road to destruction.

        • Its because they have the most invested in housing once they’ve purchased (buying at the new top) and have the most to lose should it fall. People who have gained the most and have little debt can weather any change to their values and still walk out with some profit so they are more able to be objective.

          Newcomers bear the brunt of any change to the status quo. This creates fear. They’ve by definition invested the most in the local area and are more at risk to any changes to the area (have gotten into the most debt). So why wouldn’t they be more NIMBY than the rest? They are trapped and any negative developments around them are felt most by them.

          Being NIMBY isn’t necessarily a bad thing either – its how Australia has a better lifestyle than many places. Protecting what’s good isn’t a bad thing. However population needs to stabilize for this “do nothing” action to be a fair and feasible strategy.

          • Good point but it’s only relevant because of insane valuations.
            If we ever returned to sane house prices (like median housing price being 4 times median wage) than the Nimby’s wouldn’t have this whole life crippling debt hanging over their heads and would therefore be able to accept change more readily ….never thought of the problem that way. But it does explain a lot of what’s wrong with Australia today, with so many people absolutely terrified of change because even minor changes could bankrupt them.

      • I’m sympathetic to that Gareth, however that’s not what’s going to occur. Giving them more power will mean more of the same. If they stop doing things that’s a start.

        – Stop the migration tap.
        – Stop changing zoning.
        – Stop changing interest rates
        – Stop new developments.
        – Reverse policies that require constant changes to keep it alive (e.g. housing industry size, population growth for “skill changes”, etc.

        Wanting a reversal is an agreement of what I’m thinking; the truth is most people want a “do nothing” party that started at least at the beginning of this century – at least that’s my impression. That involves un-rolling/reversing many changes since that upset/made it hard to “do nothing”. To have a “do nothing” government given current policy settings that don’t support this there would be one off changes to avoid “ongoing legal management” and changing of the parameters that require change. For example if. population size is growing that requires policy changes (rezonings, economic adjustments, etc) which can’t work in a “do nothing” environment. Population would need to be stabilized to support this. IR laws would need to swing somewhat back to the worker so jobs last longer meaning “less change/more doing nothing”. I would think the average punter doesn’t want “new change”, just reversals.

        TL;DR Only allow changes that optimize for less long term change later and allow me as a politician to be lazy down the line. After all laziness is better than active corrupt decisions. Don’t try to make things “better” or more efficient. That’s not what people I think want.

        • Agree that my view is idealistic, your “stop doing things” view is probably more realistic but premised political laziness so fingers crossed they dont mess with your life anymore. Unfortunately, while ever vested interest can profit off the majority then “doing nothing” is also not realistic.

          As a majority, we either need to fight for massive change or expect to keep getting shafted by the entitled minority. As I said, we need Patriots.

  13. I suspect the simple answer is that our Aussie Labour needs to have value before the Labor party can extract value through association.
    It makes no sense t have a Political party dedicated to improving the lot of the working man if we Aussie don’t actually value “working men”
    If we actually valued the working man then we wouldn’t be so willing to simply shut down businesses where honest hard working men and women produced Australian made goods. We simply wouldn’t let the desires of our capital class dictate public policy, we wouldn’t do it, we just wouldn’t go there. But that’s the thing we did go there, we did kick Holden (and the other auto makers) in the happy sac and it wasn’t just one kick we made sure to grind our foot into their privates and then for good measure we knelt on their neck. We wanted to put that Australia behind us, we wanted infertile, we wanted them impotent, we wanted them dead .
    But again that’s the thing, we got our wish, our collective prayers were answered…hallelujah! there is a god after all and its name is neoliberalism.
    Is it really that surprising that all our political parties are now bending the knee to worship at this alter? the Aussie people have spoken, they’ve screamed loud and clear… we’re not a working class nation.
    If you haven’t noticed, we’re all rich we all live in Million dollar houses so we can’t be seen driving Holdens, what’s the old saying…Pride comes before the Fall!

  14. Astrolin, the past is a different country and our ALP is not their ALP. Today they are LNP light with faux wokeness thrown in.

  15. kierans777MEMBER

    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/australian-politics/2021/07/26/michelle-grattan-labor-announcement/

    As much as I dislike the ALP not standing up against tax cuts that are clearly not in the public interest, and I detest the party being Liberal Lite what can you do when you’ve got the media stacked in the Liberals corner? 2019 was a watershed moment because the ALP took good policies to the election that attempted to wind back largesse and would have done a little bit for generational equality. Yet the scare campaign, outright lies and absolute bollocks from the media was a large factor in them losing the election. When I’m contacting journalists and pointing out the complete falsehoods in their articles on ALP policies especially around the franking credit cash rebates you know that the game was rigged (to their credit some journos corrected their articles online, but it was too late the damage was done).

    If the ALP scrape across the line in the next election they need a Federal ICAC and “truth in media” laws passed ASAP so they can survive the following election.

    • C'est de la folieMEMBER

      any ‘truth in media’ laws or any ICAC would catch as many ALP shonksters and corruption beneficiaries as they would LNP beneficiaries

      • kierans777MEMBER

        I’m totally OK with that. Get them out of the party.

        We need a check on the media. Look at the rabidness Sky News After Dark has whipped up over restrictions in NSW.

        • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

          Without fierce antitrust laws to break up concentrated media ownership there is no way they (the media) will fulfill its crucial role in democracy.
          They have become little more than neoliberal propaganda outfits and entertainment providers.
          Democracy cannot work under current media ownership concentrations.
          The current status quo might bring about the end of human civilization itself,
          https://youtu.be/Oh_Zk6Da9fU

          • It already has.
            Climate change is too far progressed that there’s good reason to believe cutting to 0 today would be too late. And yet we are increasing emissions.

            And without that, the division, the lies, the public brainwashing and extremism in favor of terrible policy.. I haven’t seen one realistic low-chance solution to undoing it while it is actually accelerating. We simply cannot solve problems or enact any more reforms due to brainwashed population and completely bought out media and leaders. So down the drainer we go as we increase inequality, debt and await for the bill to come due when worker dependency ratio is a disastrous levels.

        • RobotSenseiMEMBER

          I don’t think anyone will be upset when “the great purge” from ICAC cleans out the hanging chads on both sides.

  16. Jumping jack flash

    “What is the point of Labor if it is merely a Coalition-lite party that endorses pretty much the same neoliberal policies? Why vote for Labor when you can vote for the real thing?”

    This!

    They need to change their tactic and their target voter. Its a real shame that Nationalism is such a dirty word these days.
    Besides, everyone aspires to the Liberal ideology in the New Economy, so it’d be a hard sell anyway, until something happens to upset the status quo [again].