Is El Trumpo a facist?

Thankfully it appears that Donald El Trumpo is going to fail in his bid to steal the US election. But the attempt throws up an interesting question. What kind of leader is he and where does he fit in the history of political ideology?

We know that El Trumpo is a classic populist. That is, he pretends to be of the people while enacting policy that is most often against the people. Trump’s two signature policies fit this bill.  First, his corporate tax cuts which seriously intensified inequality. Second, his China tariffs which made goods more expensive while delivering little gain for workers (which is not to say that his attacks on China were not thoroughly welcome). We should also leaven this view with his excellent immigration policies (destructive human grandstanding events aside) which did help US wages by limiting foreign labour.

Fascism also leans towards strongmen leaders that create cults of personality that attack “elites” such as scientists. In this aspect, Trump qualifies with bells on given his anti-science stands on climate change and the virus which have both been immensely destructive to all Americans.

There is often (but not always) a racial element to fascism which El Trumpo kind of encapsulates in the darker arts of dog-whistling and racial baiting.

Another key feature of fascism is the command and control economy so Trump clearly does not qualify on that front. Yet it also includes oligarchy, integration of public and private rentiers working together for their own interests over that of the collective, on which front Trump does qualify.

The key dimension of fascism is, of course, the undermining of the democratic process in favour of a dictatorship, which is El Trumpo to a “t”. But successful fascists use quasi-militias or brownshirts to intimidate to achieve this end. Trump’s angry grannies that have spent too long on Facebook do not qualify:

Finally, Fascists control the military. They create martial states in which the military and civilian government are inseparable. Once this is achieved, they typically follow up by stacking the judiciary.

So, is El Trumpo a Fascist? As I said before the election, I thought the US would be OK not because El Trumpo would not aim for a fascistic coup but because he’s too inept to pull it off.  He does not have control of his brownshirts (such as they are), he does not have personal (as opposed to POTUS) control of the military and the judiciary although conservative is not captured.

In other words, El Trumpo is a failed fascist. More con than don. More in the mold of…say…Silvio Berlusconi than Benito Mussolini.

And thank god for it. Because what is most clear when I look at those pictures of angry grannies tapping on the windows of electoral offices, it becomes incredibly easy to imagine how a smarter operator could topple a democracy even as potent as that in the US. Simply call the election a fraud then storm the electoral offices and despoil the vote yourself to prove it.

Voila, civil war, and the need for a hardman crackdown to restore order.

David Llewellyn-Smith
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Comments

  1. I'll Stir Fry You in My WokeMEMBER

    What’s been amazing about this is how those commenters on this site (for whom I have no delicate way of describing) have claimed that Antifa etc would be rioting on election night, have ended up being terribly, terribly wrong.

    And here we are, with Trump supporters creating a recount website (to be clear, I don’t think many would have an issue with recounts where the state laws permit it) and threatening the AZ recount centre….

    Unless of course, all of the above is just a “socialist leftist woke”[sic] conspiracy.

    Deary me.

        • boomengineeringMEMBER

          My profuse apologies for the insidious click bait.
          As far as your comment, I agree but it better to be safe than sorry, so boarding up the shops for nothing only requires unboarding when the danger has past, not much work.

          • I'll Stir Fry You in My WokeMEMBER

            That point is true – protected is protected, irrespective of who might damage.

            Again though, this is about how, pre election, some posited it would be carnage on the streets and carnage at the hand of “The Left Socialists”.

            But in fact, to date at least, it has not been the case.

            I suppose it might be an interesting thought experiment to consider what might have happened had the situation been reversed. However, I am struggling to think that we’d have Biden supporters banging on polling stations demanding counting be stopped.

      • Trump is a Swamp Monster who has convinced people that he wants to drain the swamp, he doesn’t, he just wants to replace certain occupants of the swamp with other more preferable occupants. He doesn’t care about changing how the swamp works, he just wants control of the benefits of the swamp.

        • Narapoia451MEMBER

          The fact that most of his supporters haven’t worked this out does not speak highly of them.
          He’s stacked his administration with several times as many lobbyists, special interest groups and billionaires as any previous administration. The claim he wants to do anything about ‘the swamp’ is just a straight out lie, as are so many things he says. But then his supporters are fine with those lies as well so I guess at least they are consistent in being duped / ignorant / too stupid to work it out.

    • Yeah look at that fascist coup, a bunch of elderly ladies tapping their bony rookers on the window.

      “claimed that Antifa etc would be rioting on election night”. Er…If Trump was winning I would think they’d be keen. But even if he was winning, the national guard is visible in a few popular locations, kinda makes people tone it down.

      • I think it’s better to see Trumpettes as Nationalists, or pre-fascist usefuls, not yet as fascists.

        It’s also important to distinguish between a Trumpette and a GOP voter – they’re not necessarily the same.

        I know a number of GOP voters who don’t like Trump all that much, but normally vote GOP on stereotypical matters, and hence voted for Trump. They’re also generally the type of people that wouldn’t notice fascist/pre-fascist/Nationalist threats until it was too late.

    • with Trump supporters creating a recount website

      The same people that hate science now hate math too. Whocoodanode? 🙄

          • Stop pedaling BS

            In 2011 the Frontier Centre for Public Policy think tank interviewed Tim Ball and published his allegations about Mann and the CRU email controversy. Mann promptly sued for defamation[62] against Ball, the Frontier Centre and its interviewer.[63] In June 2019 the Frontier Centre apologized for publishing, on its website and in letters, “untrue and disparaging accusations which impugned the character of Dr. Mann”. It said that Mann had “graciously accepted our apology and retraction”.[64] This did not settle Mann’s claims against Ball, who remained a defendant.[65] On March 21, 2019, Ball applied to the court to dismiss the action for delay; this request was granted at a hearing on August 22, 2019, and court costs were awarded to Ball. The actual defamation claims were not judged, but instead the case was dismissed due to delay, for which Mann and his legal team were held responsible.

    • I think Trump voters have been misrepresented in the media at least as much as the antifa/BLM folk. Until they move beyond the caricatures then they will be only adding to the problem.

    • Antifa were rioting in Portland.

      What I find weird is that even mentioning Antifa gets one labelled as crazy.

    • The fact that ANTIFA burned the place down for 6 months only to stop when they get their way doesn’t concern you at all then obviously? Ultimate democracy achieved I suppose.

      I wouldn’t count your chickens just yet though. I somehow don’t think that the people walking the suburbs demanding home owners give up their houses for black folks (regardless of whether black folks already own them) are going to be super happy with the recommencement with the swamp pushing globalism back into gear.

      You never know though, I’m sure Biden will instigate Utopia this time around. He and Obama probably just forgot to get around to it last time.

  2. GunnamattaMEMBER

    El Trumpo is your classic Gollum and the ring.

    He wanted the ring and got the ring. But the ring wants, and wanted, someone and got the best available option. And neither Gollum or El Trumpo are interested in letting go. And the ring will ensure it is never let go of by those it wants carrying it and representings its interest.

    And next week or next Month Joe will have the ring. And the ring will have Joe, and presumably some of those close to Joe

    And when Joe goes someone else will want the ring. And the ring will want that someone else too.

    The cycle is eternal, and part of the human condition.

    …..and the question for us all is ‘Are we Gollum or are we the Ring?’ Or maybe ‘Why doesnt the ring want us?’ Or ‘Does the ring think we are expendable?’

    • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

      I would rather Gollum have the Ring than Sauron – which now that the Ring is back in the hands of the politic-media-military blob that has run America for the past 40 years is exactly who controls it.

        • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

          Great power in the hands of an ineffectual leader or Great power in the hands of a soulless Corporate puppet and his hollow woman?
          🤔
          …and I am crazy?

          Democrats have nearly doubled the spending by Republican candidates up and down the ballot.

          https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/28/2020-election-spending-to-hit-nearly-14-billion-a-record.html

          Corporations and their media run the US, and the spend and donations to the respective US political parties shows EXACTLY whose candidate ended up being elected.

          • Great power in the hands of an ineffectual leader […]

            The “leader” isn’t ineffectual. Nor is it Trump.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            The “leader” isn’t ineffectual. Nor is it Trump.

            Wooow another Progressive conspiracy theory – I can’t wait for your big reveal.

        • Whole premise of your article is mad DLS.
          I don’t know why you waste your knowledge reputation of economics on complex social and constitutional matters.

          • Maybe because Economics is an attempt to rationally assign a transactional nature to complex social interactions and as such Economics depends on the nature of those complex social interactions.

            If you dont think that the state of the social and political structure in the US impacts out financial situation then your more deluded than Scommo and Fraudenburg.

          • lololol So you obviously think you understand these “complex social and constitutional matters.” to determine that DLS’s whole premise is wrong!

            Can you please explain it for us?

    • Please don’t defile the beloved LOTR legendarium with contemporaneous allegory….
      I had to weep a little inside when I saw someone post a “Aragorn, make middle earth great again 2024” meme this morning.

    • That’s why they have term limits. Normally, if you know in advance that your time with the ring is limited, this is enough to stop you from turning from Smeagol into Gollum. Admittedly, Trump may be an exception to this rule; he is awfully jealous of other leaders who manage to become President for life, or go from President to Prime Minister and back again. On the more general question, the word “Fascist” is often applied erroneously to politicians; but, in the case of Trump, it might actually be correct; the defining characteristic of Fascism is that it arises out of a populist movement.

    • ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

      Sigh,…I never realised there were so many “Lord of the rings” dorks & nerds on this site.

  3. Stewie GriffinMEMBER

    And thank god for it. Because what is most clear when I look at those pictures of angry grannies tapping on the windows of electoral offices, it becomes incredibly easy to imagine how a smarter operator could topple a democracy even as potent as that in the US.

    If only he had AntiFa on his side…

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        They did a good job at burnng down America before the election to get their man Biden elected – not much left for them to do after it.

          • BoomToBustMEMBER

            I’ve got friends in the USA – they are not boarding up shops in anticipation of Biden winning, they are boarding them up in anticipation of Trump winning and the Soros backed ANTIFA far left going on more riots.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            Come on, dude. There were protests on both sides.

            Yeah – but only one side chose to burn down their cities and violently attack the police.

            What’s becoming clear here is that you, Stewie, are a fascist.

            LOL and MB is turning into CNN.

            Boom to Bust has a better handle on where the real threat to ordinary Americans was coming from in those riots. But hey, CNN said…

          • @BoomToBust
            Exactly. The threat was that if Trump did win then ANTIFA / BLM would be rioting. Now that Biden is going to win there is no threat.

          • Which MAGA protest resulted in burning and looting? I missed that one.
            This is where its ar$e backwards, the media saying that MAGAs will riot as they stand in front of burning and looted city thanks to ANTIFA. What the hell?

          • It is you who are close minded and prejudiced DLS. You use your platform to criticise others who are more curious without basis.

          • @DLS, which Trump protests ending with rioting, looting, killing or assualting of police? What both sides? Who is this other side?

          • The casual observer doesn’t actually understand just how widespread looting and burning actually was/is and that minorities have actually borne the brunt of the destruction. There was plenty of smaller scale riots outside of the ones in major cities.

        • I'll Stir Fry You in My WokeMEMBER

          “burnng down America” – now that is a rather expansive description.

        • Stewie,

          Those protestors responded the way they did because of frustration and anger at seeing their people killed timed again by police. Is it any wonder they responded the way they have.

          Btw, have some of you forgotten the storming of the state parliament by the armed idiots, one of whom later was arrested for planning to kidnap the governor?

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            That is a fairer response – but the reason they are arrested more often is because of the incidence of violent crime committed by that population group. In terms of arrest for violent crimes as white person is actually more likely to be killed at the hands of the police or die in custody.

            They are egged on by a media who have the same inability to grasp the concept of per capita, as DLS does in respect to assessing the incidence of COVID.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            Just re-read and saw your comment on the plot to kidnap the Governor

            Most Naz!’s tend to have Swastika’s hanging from their bedroom walls….

            https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/08/suspect-charged-in-gretchen-whitmer-kidnap-plot-had-anarchist-flag-hates-police/

            The media control the narrative and painted these freaks as far right militia – nothing could be further from the truth. They wanted to kidnap the Democrat Govenor because in their eyes she was a Traitor.

            “Authority doesn’t exist, dude,” Caserta said, seated in front of an anarchist flag, “and, like, the law doesn’t exist.”

            They were anarchists. A couple of them had FB postings from 2017 in mild support of Trump, but had a road to Damascus conversion to progressive zealotry – think Mig.

            Here is the MSM view of the kidnappers:

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michigan-governor-kidnap-plot/2020/10/08/0032e206-0980-11eb-9be6-cf25fb429f1a_story.html

            The truth probably lies somewhere in between, but it certainly doesn’t reside with the Washingtonpost’s portrayal.

          • Stewie,

            “The media control the narrative and painted these freaks as far right militia – nothing could be further from the truth. They wanted to kidnap the Democrat Govenor because in their eyes she was a Traitor.”

            A traitor, seriously? I’m sorry but this is just pitiful, you cannot explain away that so blithely! That would have been an act of domestic terrorism, individuals don’t get to determine what is a traitorous act is, the US isn’t some backwater with no real rule of law. They have a constitution, a supreme court, you can argue it’s shortcomings, but nothing to justify what they did, your argument is frightening, they should be doing 20yrs for that.

          • Stewie,

            They look like ‘good ol’ boys’ to me. They (whoever they are) can label them whatever they like, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s not a chicken. Have a look at them, where they live and their behaviour (gun toting good ol’ boys), they are not lefties by any stretch of the imagination.

          • But, Stewie, but but, I thought you didn’t trust the msm narrative, except when it aligns with you beliefs? The ladies are even wearing their leisure wear. lololol.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            I don’t – that is why I went to check out their site and see if there was any other evidence to corroborate what the ABC were claiming.

            Have a good weekend.

            👍

          • “Those protestors responded the way they did because of frustration and anger at seeing their people killed timed again by police.”

            This link might be illuminating. As Larry Elder is fond of saying, ” more unarmed white people are killed by police than unarmed blacks” – name one of them?

            https://www.joplinglobe.com/opinion/columns/larry-elder-wheres-black-lives-matter-when-you-need-them/article_dae98758-d8e7-5339-9b4a-f34b6ba77ed8.html

            The reality is that police are not systemically racist. They are just poorly trained.

          • JC,

            Partly correct I would say, and backed up by the way police react when their gun discharges, like they weren’t expecting it. Some of the video seems to show the police shooting like they’re scared of their own gun.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            Dennis your comment

            Stewie,

            “The media control the narrative and painted these freaks as far right militia – nothing could be further from the truth. They wanted to kidnap the Democrat Govenor because in their eyes she was a Traitor.”

            A traitor, seriously? I’m sorry but this is just pitiful, you cannot explain away that so blithely! That would have been an act of domestic terrorism, individuals don’t get to determine what is a traitorous act is, the US isn’t some backwater with no real rule of law. They have a constitution, a supreme court, you can argue it’s shortcomings, but nothing to justify what they did, your argument is frightening, they should be doing 20yrs for that.

            Suddenly makes sense, apparently others drew a similar conclusion.

            So there are no miss-understandings this is what I meant:

            https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/11/macro-afternoon-1002/#comment-4023945

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            Dennis,

            MB deleted my Redneck post, where I also linked to members online postings where they confessed their political proclivities.

            That post both helped clarified my position in the previous statement (which on reflection was a little ambiguous and could have been misinterpreted and was happy to clarify) and helped give an insight into the political orientation of the group.

            See how the media work?

            Edit: On reflection it may be because I linked to their stupid site and made a tongue in cheek comment about signing up… although it would have been fairer and less bias to simply edit those comments.

        • Stewie,

          As a % of pop blacks are killed by police close to 4 times whites. Crime, yes, but why? Oh geez, maybe because they’re on the bottom rung with no support. The US is a classic sink or swim scenario.

          Societies in general run a ponzi scheme, with the US having the worst version. If you’re born into the bottom rungs you have little chance of moving up and the US actually pushes you down.

    • I'll Stir Fry You in My WokeMEMBER

      Biden is a socialist! Thanks for my Friday funny. Man that will tide me over for quite a while.

    • Arthur Schopenhauer

      Biden is a Socialist? The Senator for Delaware? 😝😅🤣

      You guys are a crack up. Set up an LLC in the Delaware and report back as to how ‘Socialist’ it is! 🥳😂😀

    • Socialism and fascism are but two degrees separated. Both necessarily involve an element of control over economic assets and are both essentially authoritarian.

      The one key test DLS did not mention about a fascist regime ^^^ control over economic assets. Trump gets a fail there too.

      • Socialism isnt authoritarian, Socialist Dictatorships are. Just like Capitalist Dictatorships.

        Its amazing how many people equate socialist or capitalist as the same as dictatorship vs democracy.

        Its far more complex than that, There are a number of well run socialist democracies who also operate well in a capitalist global economy, just like there is currently a large communist dictatorship operating generally as a capitalist society.

        What I also find amazing is the number of people who have been convinced the other side of the political divide are deluded and brainwashed yet it is just as likely they themselves are the deluded and brainwashed ones.

        There are many documented cases where people went into peaceful protests and started looting which was then blamed on the protesters, this also occurred on both sides of the argument. The only thing I am 100% certain of is that the US is in the middle of a civil war that has not escalated into military scale interactions. The war is currently purely on an ideological level but will only take a small spark to make it go all out.

        • Its amazing how many people equate socialist or capitalist as the same as dictatorship vs democracy.

          Not when you consider the staggering amount of work put into making exactly that association, particularly in the US, and to a marginally lesser degree, Australia and the UK.

        • You need to be careful about what you believe to be socialist democracies — people often hold the Nordic countries up as prime examples and yet they are nothing of the sort — they are capitalist countries with high taxation and an extensive welfare system. Big difference.

          Socialist countries, by definition, are where the State has control of (or a major say in the running of) a substantial proportion of economic assets — if this condition is not met then they are not a socialist country.

          But don’t take my word it. From Wiki …

          ” …a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.”

          • kierans777MEMBER

            The community doesn’t have to be the State. Dairy farmer cooperatives were socialist in that the means of production and the profits were fairly distributed.

        • kierans777MEMBER

          Hear, hear. I have this exact debate with people a lot. People conflate an economic system with a political system (or system of government). For example in Communism because the State owns/controls everything you have by default a flavour of socialism. A horrible flavour as often any form of true socialist ideas gets eventually distorted by corruption, but it’s there none the less.

      • Socialism and fascism are but two degrees separated.

        They really, really aren’t.

        (At least assuming you’re using the actual definition of socialism rather than the horror-movie-jump-scare right-wing definition.)

        • Why don’t you furnish us with the ‘proper’ definition of socialism then and we’ll compare notes ..

          • “Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers’ self-management of enterprises. It includes the political theories and movements associated with such systems. Social ownership can be public, collective, cooperative or of equity.”

            “Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.”

            I’ve helped you out by highlighting the critical differences, but the TL;DR version is the socialism is a system where power resides with the people (typically administered through some form of democracy), and fascism is a system where power resides with a self-appointed dictator (typically brutally enforced by the military). They are literally at opposites.

            EDIT: This one might have more resonance: you can find libertarian socialists without too much difficulty, but you will never find a libertarian fascist.

          • “Workers self management of enterprises” cool man

            Isn’t it utterly predictable that each socialist experiment tends to gravitate towards the dictatorship of the proles? Isn’t it unsurprising how Fascism emerged from Socialism, as with Mussolini? A world without hierarchy is a Hobbesian state of nature, it leads to a natural reassertion of a more primitive hierarchy, a power hierarchy, where friends help friends and foes, the non-believers, the un-woke, get liquidated.

            Socialism and communism are utopian myths. They have never existed. The totalitarian state is the product of the myth. Kids today calling themselves communists and socialists are an utter joke in contrast to their blood soaked ideological forebears. Modern ‘socialists’ are nothing to be afraid of, they are merely ridiculous and beyond contempt as they tap away to their several followers on their $1000 iPhones.

            Old school socialism and fascism, same sh1t, different smell

          • Smithy. Firstly, is Animal Farm an allegory for Fascism or Socialism? We all know the answer ..

            Fascism and socialism share important similarities: They are inherently authoritarian, they are Statist by default and they necessarily involve the control of key economics assets (the mechanism used to control these assets is rather irrelevant). The idea that people are ‘free’ in a socialist state is a contradiction in itself as they are not free to own whatever they want (free of Govt interference) and they are not free to pursue whatever economic goals take their fancy (like an invent a Smartphone, for example). Socialist systems direct their citizens to grow potatoes and farm pork and build vehicles that perform certain duties. everyone is directed to do something and no one is incentivised to innovate. That’s why we have Ferraris and VW Golfs in the capitalist West and why Russia had Lada cars in their socialist hey-day. And lots of potatoes.

    • #MeToo. However, the question remains whether gold has another swift trip lower or not. Conundrums ..

      • we are overthiniking it mate. I know we both want to be wise and pick the bottom but we are splitting hairs. This is why I did not top up yesterday and regretted it as NCM picked up from the low of 29.25.
        We should start thinking where gold price will be this time next year and year after. conlclusion – current prices are bargain.

        • True. Bottom-picking is not to be recommended. Nor the top.

          Thing is, we would have had that correction if it hadn’t been for all this fake money swilling around the system – makes it very difficult to read.

          • agree. that’s why I adjusted my time horizon now. If I am absolutely sure particular commodity will be in high demand ver next 2-5 years then I make sure I have exposure but I don’t commit all my money. If there is a dip I have spare cahs to top up and bring average price down.

    • SnappedUpSavvyMEMBER

      yeah i really don’t care anymore, and also up 15% today, i’m gunna trade till i can buy an island and escape

  4. He’s not a fascist and his record on not starting any new wars is one of the few decent things he will leave with (that’s how low the bar is, folks). The irony being he seems to be leaving it late for a near civil war because his ego can’t handle losing. I really hope he loses Pennsylvania along with as many of the smaller states as possible. This sulking just exposes what he is – a sad old one-term president who lied even more than usual to win the presidency and largely turned out to be just another evil statist

    • What war did Obama start? from what I can tell every engagement since Bush 2 was just a continuation of the mess left behind, the conflict moved location because the aggressor moved, wasnt a new war just an ongoing result of the original Bush decision… so on that basis he has no better record because they are till in there fighting.

      Ironically he has actually deported less immigrants than Obama did despite claiming he was going to get tough on them, but that was due to county jails shutting ICE out of the system so they couldn’t just hijack the judicial process and deport anyone who looked hispanic.

      • Obama wasn’t as peaceful as he campaigned on being with all those drone strikes and various missions either.

      • Obama went to war in Libya. Look up ‘we came, we saw, he died hahaha’. Yemen genocide is also a sad read.

        Why are they covering the glass so the Republicans can’t watch them? It’s understandable that that polling place had votes going in the high nineties to Biden because it is a majority African American city. That is more the reason the later votes have been pro-Biden. The only people who have stopped counting votes are Democrats in Pennsylvania after the judge ordered Republicans can monitor the counting closer.

        As for Trump being a fascist, if he could he would. However, the closest the Americans have ever come to a coup is his impeachment so writing several articles calling the Donald a fascist is a bit unfair.

  5. Trump always struck me as a dodgy property developer. Anyone who has been around them, or seem what they do, knows that they will say anything to get what they want, play people off each other with promises, not pay their bills, and are purely transactional.

    • I'll Stir Fry You in My WokeMEMBER

      +1

      I’m a bit shocked he hasn’t seen more Trumpigofferiton High Rises go up, replete with faux gold encasement.

      • Generally, no. Except for Sanders. For all the unfounded bs socialist fears, he’s one of the few who actually has integrity.

        • and Tulsi. But neither Sanders nor Tulsi will ever be give a chance. So no diference between Rep and Dems – both are scum.

          • True re Tulsi but she stood no chance of winning the nomination compared to Sanders. I’m sure there are a few more like these two among the Dems we don’t know about so there IS a slight difference to me.

      • In a general sense, no. Most of the politicians, from both sides, appear to be lawyers, or to behave like them. Different beasts with their own mannerisms and traits.

      • Probably not much.

        And, it’s not about Dem vs GOP; it’s Dems vs Trump…Trumpism (emerging Nationalism) is its own things that doesn’t necessarily represent the GOP (though it may take them over).

        At least the Dems’ version of democracy is a little less rubbish than Trump’s faux-democracy / contempt for democracy that doesn’t give him what he wants – and I think that was the main choice this time; all other things were details.

  6. The really sad thing is, in a country as great as America – and I still maintain it’s a great place – the best they could find were Biden (who belongs in Aged Care) and Trump (who belongs in an asylum).

        • kierans777MEMBER

          Hear hear. I’m actually surprised that Biden might actually win. I thought Trump was a shoe in – despite all the predictions in polls and on MB that Trump has no chance. Because the Dems picked a Trump Lite candidate instead of fighting Trump with Sanders. Now that would be been worthwhile just for the debates.

  7. Prelim thoughts: I think it’s also fair to differentiate between someone on a clear Nationalist and possibly fascist path, with someone who has not yet eroded the status quo to sufficiently establish a Nationalistic Fascist regime. I think Trump is still working on it.

    I also love your insight that Trump would look at stoking civil unrest to further the power-agenda – I’ve been thinking this is the lowest hanging fruit, too.

  8. Don’t be daft – they’re not lefty, crikey!

    And, do you mean socially or economically left? Would be good if people would stop throwing the terms around interchangeably, demonstrating their general ignorance of the terms…

    Pointing Trumpolini out as a far-right danger doesn’t make one ‘left’ – it just makes them no far-right. And, similarly, just because someone is left of the far-right doesn’t make them ‘left’! That’s just self-referencing and a false-binary!

    • “Is El Trumpo a fasict” Thats about as ridiculously left as it comes.
      These guys were all about economics now its full of political opinions.

      • Politics underpins economics – always has and always will; and, now perhaps more than ever!

        Disagree that calling out fascism or facist leanings necessitates being a lefty. The irony is that it actually is, and ought to be, more a preoccupation of those who love freedom.

        If you’re truly freedom-loving in the political sense, then I believe you ought to be watching both the left and right extremes; just fearing reds under the beds doesn’t necessarily make one discerning, just more likely to slide further and further to the right whilst not realising it.

        • FUDINTHENUDMEMBER

          He’s a lying sack of excrement as per usual. Also Bannon literally just called for the BEHEADING of Fauci and Christopher Wray. Getting very loose. If some of this rhetoric isn’t at least STARTING to sound like fascism to some folks, then they need their head checked.

  9. To be fair there is a slight shift in the housing rhetoric. A hint of thrown towel with the recent article on the property bubble being OK now since it is first home buyers and not filthy investor/speculators fuelling price rises.

  10. ErmingtonPlumbingMEMBER

    My boy and I were tested for Covid-19 yesterday and I have just got our results.
    To kinda quote Donald Trump,
    The results were positive, that is to say positively towards the negative.
    Or alternatively we tested perfectly.
    https://youtu.be/6gJdf7LyGpg

    Lol he can’t even use the word “negative” in reference to himself,…even when negative is positive!
    The man has a serious mental illness

  11. Libraries continue to be filled with books attempting to explain fascism and many books will continue to be written to attempt to describe Donald Trump. Trump was initially not taken seriously but he then has added unconventional demeaning dimensions to the American system. Back in the 1930’s not a few persons versed in economics did not take the Nazis seriously as they were convinced that economically the German state would collapse in the wake of Hitler’s unorthodox methods. It all seemed logical and German business loved Hitler as he gave them new dimensions of activity – the state organised looting of German citizens and later of other countries, effective use of slave labour , the racial state etc etc. Some ideas are deeply embedded in national thinking.
    The German state stood for the systematic looting of the property of its Jewish citizens and the nazis were shocked when ordinary Germans in droves proceeded to loot Jewish property on their own account in a chaotic manner. David Cesarani has documented this in a frightening book!
    Trump’s manipulation of subterranean streams in the American psyche is a matter of grave concern. Law and Order seems to be morphing into anti negro racism and the anti China/CCP campaign is heading the same way. This could all get completely out of hand.

  12. Is everybody watching Trumpellini speaking right now?. Talk about rambling, talk about pitiful.

    Anyone who condones this kind of behaviour/ who continues to support this clown needs to take a long hard look in the mirror.

  13. No, he’s just a greedy narcissist. In it for himself and, to a lesser degree, his family. Doesn’t really care what happens outside of him getting attention and money.

    Fascists are True Believers, or at the very least can put up a believable facade as such.

    The people around him – Barr, Pence, McConnel, etc – on the other hand…

  14. Utter BS. Trump has scored something like 49% of the vote. What did the Republicans do? Did they all go for a brewskie? Did they take the day off and not vote?
    The Republicans have supported him over the past 4 years…they own this [email protected]#show now.

  15. Rorke's DriftMEMBER

    This ElTrumpo a fascist forum is such naive, delusional shat posting from DLS. It leaves me with deep concern for the future of our country with citizens brain numb like this. The site has become almost unreadable with the lefty progressive idiots around, I’m losing hope.

    I’d threaten to leave the forum but where do you go, where are the deep thinkers in Australia hanging out, increasingly fewer on here.

  16. Ofcourse Marxists want a one party system. Must watch.
    https://video.foxnews.com/v/6207208811001?playlist_id=5198073478001#sp=show-clips

    Anyone who opposes a marxist one party system is a fascist!!!
    And Joe BidXIn Authoritarian giggles.
    Have you seen the money Dems spent and went on losing seats… will the media even cover the money trail.

    The disgrace is the marxists don’t want a FAIR outcome, just their outcome.

    Democracy is about fair outcomes, with the prospect of a fair outcome once again in the next election.

    • Ofcourse Marxists want a one party system. Must watch.

      The first thirty seconds is complete bullsh!t. Is there any point watching further ?

      EDIT: the rest of it is just standard-issue right-wing paranoid hysteria about what the left might do, while ignoring it’s what the right is actually, currently in the process of doing. So the usual Karl Rove / Goebbels stuff.

      Isn’t Tucker the one yous keep saying is some sort of credible, objective commentator ? Because that monologue is largely indistinguishable from something you’d read on *chan.

  17. lol. So you dropped in to say that you’re glad that you don’t frequent these digs. LOLOLOL

  18. Joe Biden won’t be Tweeting much as it would interfere with his naps.
    Should Biden win; Expect Kamala Harris to be President in under 18 months.

  19. Just a massive sh1t-your-pants sook happening from the Trumpettes here. You’re all constantly bragging about triggering the libs and now you’re all having a meltdown because you lost a fair election.

    Biden 2020!
    Kamala 2021!
    Kamala 2022!
    Kamala 2023!
    Hunter and AOC 2024!

    Make America Gender Neutral Again!

  20. I’ve stopped discussing what they believe in with Trump supporters. The more interesting question is why you believe in something. Reality is in the eye of the beholder. There is a significant group of flat earthers (and birthers,Trump being one) and guess the political affiliation. There is substantial evidence and reason that conservatism is correlated with fear. Fear in itself is not necessarily bad, and needed inn certain situations. But most people in fear hate being told it, so self awareness is limited. Mix that in with a little bit of decreased reason (which happens left and right) and you get some pretty crazy right wing shit. Also recognise fear leads you to Black/ white binary thinking and us vs them. It’s I love you you’re so wonderful, until you’re in the out group. It quickly flIPS to”I’ll k&?ll you”. Self awareness is the key.

  21. Well it looks like Biden and the Democrats have pulled off the Big Steal with mail-in voting. Anyone notice the same pattern in all the states where Trump was leading comfortably?
    1. Stop counting.
    2. Pretend to count like snails, probably because it takes a lot of time to manually fill in new ballots or harvest new ones.
    3. Block election observers.
    4. Allow people to mail in votes after election day.
    5. Dump large numbers of votes for Biden…100% Biden -0% for Trump

    Sorry boys but this is going to courts (as it should be) and hopefully they’ll be a recount.

  22. Ummm … let me see here … for brevity’s sake: neoliberalism became dominate in the mid 70s after a couple of decades of political advocacy by the extremely wealthy, post WWII, with the agenda of rolling back all of FDR’s social goods and labours hard won rights. Due to the increasing head winds of their money funding everything, including elections, Bill Clinton [and his Goldwater girl] transformed the Democrats into the Thirdway – Washington consensus party which ended its attachment to labour and shifted it to moderate suburban – cosmopolitan republicans E.g. since neoliberalism everything economic has moved to the rightttttttttttt ….. albeit what ever one wants to call any advocacy for non nuclear family or social – rights with in the neoliberal paradigm is instantly labeled lefties some or the other by the hard right …

    Anywho … El Trumpo … yeah the guy that used to go on Oprah’s show or anything else as long as his gob was on TVeeee and he could pitch is brand aka himself: see Brandson et al ….

    Same goes for being a cosmopolitan liberal for decades until his flexian [tm] instincts kicked in and he had a punt at the presidential election, would have never dreamed making it, but a good showing would translate in to political power which could be used to forward other personal and business ventures.

    Then he made it in on bluster [fat boy antics] and pushing some well worn Pavlovian dog whistles that the right had previously established, but had never pushed as far, too the point that moderate Rep and even some on the hard right are a bit nervous about because it sets a stage for some ultimate show down and that was never really the intent. This is now all in the international sphere of geopol and how that reflects on a great many things … party with the crazy people or not …

    Trump is the stench of a corrupt and rotten system and not the cause of it … your mileage might vary …

    PS … Stewie … hows the cult thingy doing … when is birch branch night – ?????

      • Besides being an empty vassal filled with the “spirit” of others thoughts … what were you saying again …

        • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

          ‘Besides being an empty vassal filled with the “spirit” of others’

          …a bit like your asshole.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            Can’t even reply to my post – maybe you are too distracted filling your vassal with your own spirit?

          • As I indicated … ****vassal**** E.g. unthinking bot for others …. I.e. you consumed at reality presented.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            I like it when you have a vapid after though. Most people keep it to themselves and think “Oh instead of saying this, I should have said this.” But you came back and posted it – Bravo!

            And what did you post? An explanation as to your earlier statement, as though I did not get it – which from your Dunning-Kruger valley I imagine you think was all cunning and cryptic (although I will admit that it was more coherent than your usual gibberish).

            Would you like me to explain my previous reply or have you worked it out for yourself?

          • Here let me pull that apart …

            “I like it when you have a vapid after though.” – pejorative without any factual or otherwise means to evaluate how you arrived at it E.g. totally authoritarian proselyting.

            “An explanation as to your earlier statement, as though I did not get it – which from your Dunning-Kruger valley I imagine you think was all cunning and cryptic (although I will admit that it was more coherent than your usual gibberish).” – Again a completely subjective statement with no means to evaluate how you arrived at it outside your proselytizing about it being a matter of fact.

            Be a man for once in your life.

          • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

            “maybe you are too distracted filling your vassal with your own spirit?”

            Think about it – you may get there eventually.

          • Vacuous is being kind.

            I’ll stick with evidence, unlike those that have to concoct theirs so it supports some watery perspectives and dominion over it.

  23. The GOP have to involve lawyers to be allowed observers. Sounds fascist to me. Exercising your legal right to ensure vote counting is fair. This is backwards land. I don’t think people here realise that dead people vote in the US.

  24. Interesting tid bit, Trump increased his vote amongst Hispanic and Black voters materially. He secured the largest share of non-white votes for a Republican in over 60 years….FACIST!!!

    • Some keep banging on about a corrupt system and mis-uniformed voters having brain cells is some paragon of human action [tm].

  25. robert2013MEMBER

    Any discussion about whether Berlusconi, Trump, Xi or anyone else is fascist is really a discussion about what the word “fascist” ought to mean. It is a pointless exercise. Worse, it frequently presupposes some agreement on what and who the word refers to. The same problem applies to the word “racism”. These words carry emotional weight and that is why they are used. Inflaming passions is a useful tool for creating an unthinking mob or just entertainment like the Jerry Springer show, e.g. this comments section. For discussions of substance ask better questions.

      • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

        That gun toting leftist groups exist like Redneck Revolt is too much to take in?

        ROFL

      • robert2013MEMBER

        I don’t and have never said that all language is meaningless. However, some words are too indeterminate to be of much use except for rhetorical reasons. “Facism” is the anglicisation of a word used by Mussolini and friends to describe themselves. It got applied to others by English media quite late. (https://www.etymonline.com/word/fascist). Moreover, “fascism” isn’t really an “ism” in that it isn’t a systematic belief system. There are no key writings that facists refer to like Das Capital for marxists, or Lenin’s writings, or Mao’s little red book. Mein Kampf is as close as it gets, and while Hitler admired Mussolini, he never called himself a fascist. It’s a label that obscures more than it illuminates because it requires deep historical knowledge to interpret well, and most do not have that knowlege. I know very little about Mussolini’s facists, and I suspect that is true for most of the people reading. “How Trump compares to Mussolini” is a better question, but probably much less clicky because nobody really cares. Whether Trump wins or not, people’s desire to be a people, not just individuals, will always matter, and if elites cannot provide that sense of togetherness then people will choose strongmen to provide it instead. Biden will not deliver the goods and the forces that gave rise to Trump will continue to gather strength.