Fake news alert. Bumbling Biden video edition

We owe readers an apology. Yesterday’s Twitter-sourced bumbling Biden video was fake news (h/t Wobbegong):

Buzzfeed with the scoop of what’s going on

The White House and President Trump’s reelection campaign on Monday circulated two videos that had been manipulated to negatively portray presidential candidate Joe Biden. Both videos spread widely on social media before being flagged as false or manipulated.

The first video was posted on Saturday, Aug. 29, but promoted to new audiences a day later by Dan Scavino, the White House deputy chief of communications.

The video, which purported to show Joe Biden asleep during a TV interview, was a manipulated copy of a 2011 KBAK news segment in which actor Harry Belafonte appears to be napping during a live interview. The manipulated version shared by Scavino substituted Biden for Belafonte and added a snoring soundtrack.

“This is what happens when you corner a rat,” a spokesperson for Joe Biden told BuzzFeed News. “Donald Trump is in so far over his head that rather than even trying to overcome the crises he has helped trigger and has exacerbated — the botched response to the pandemic and the climbing death toll, the economic collapse, and unrest and division — he is founding his incoherent case for doing even more damage in a second term on pretending he is not president now and pretending he’s running against someone other than Joe Biden.”

The full speech is here and is excellent with one stumble which is hardly newsworthy. Think George W. Bush.

Go Joe!

David Llewellyn-Smith
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Comments

    • For sure Trump has better come up with a proper message, it s getting late (for postal votes) to assert where he stands exactly, very fuzzy.The debates will be too late to be decisive this year.It would be a shame to see Trump losing against this pretty uninspiring Dem team

          • Jumping jack flash

            2012?
            Forget 2012, we were well on the way down and out by then, stuck fast in the cycle of “never-ending” interest rate cuts to trigger more debt growth, to keep everything running, until the next cut was required to get the next spurt of growth.. and on and on until sometime around the end of 2017.

            No. We need to get back to 2006.
            The correct rate of debt growth, leading to the wages growth and job creation, leading to the inflation of everything including sweet capital gains!
            The true golden age of debt.
            Sadly, it was all over far too quickly.

        • Yup – because as soon as Democrats are elected the BLM movement will be fixed right ? Black issues resolved yeah ?

          Or – as always – they only need the black vote for their elections then go straight back to ignoring them as soon as they have the power – blacks are only needed by Dems for one thing. Everyone knows it.

          And how are the Dems going to deal with violence in the US when Police across the country are refusing to deal with the violence unless they have protection from Democratic mayors and governors? Police Unions / Associations and Sheriffs across the US sent out letters yesterday REFUSING to continue policing riots and dangerous areas unless they have protection prosecution restored, rights to subdue and use non-lethal weapons, rights to use physical restraints on dangerous and violent criminals (sitting on their back / neck).

          In other words – they are now refusing to police the riots and dangerous neighborboods. You think that will fix the violence if Biden is elected?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f2Z30j61aw&feature=youtu.be

        • RobotSenseiMEMBER

          The current look isn’t pretty. Record unemployment, GDP contraction, COVID spreading unchallenged, mass sporting cancellations, still tens of millions without basic health coverage. Not to mention the riots, increasingly authoritarian position of the executive branch, and the lack of any coherent policy to abate one of the above, let alone all of them.

          Trump is a great campaigner, but he is a hype man, not a rap superstar. A great Flava Flav, but no Chuck D.

          • The person shot in the back 7 times had just raped his sisters niece. He was carrying a weapon and was getting into a car with that weapon with 2 children in the back seat. Are you aware of that ?

            His SISTER has come out and said – she would have shot him herself. Think about that.

            The young man who was involved in the assault weapon had been asked by a business owner to help protect his property – he had lost two of his three businesses already. He was attacked three times – each time he defended himself – one of those attacks came from a person with a hand gun pointed directly at his head. His gun was licensed in the state and he was old enough to have it. This is all from his lawyers on the news – confirmed by police.

            Shooter who shot the “Patriot” has been confirmed as a “BLM” member – he even has a BLM tattoo on his neck.

        • Ah, think about how that rationale fits in a democracy @RobertSensei?
          Vote-in the Dem-Mobsters; then they will stop burning and looting. You are listening to HRC (Her Royal Clinton) who actually said ‘How can we have a democracy with people we disagree strongly with?’
          Dems don’t get civility.

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            Except the protests aren’t anti-Trump; they’re anti-stop-killing-people-for-no-reason. I’m not really sure what the rest of your point is.

          • @robotsensei… the guy they chased down, and ended his life in Portland… they did it cause he was a Trumper. I believe people can change but not everyone will see sense, as your non-argument proves.

          • You are listening to HRC (Her Royal Clinton) who actually said ‘How can we have a democracy with people we disagree strongly with?’

            When ?

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            So in chronological order:
            1) Bloke shot 7 times in back by cops
            2) Minor shoots 3 people, kills 2 having crossed state lines with an unlicensed weapon
            3) Patriot Prayer member shot, assailant unknown
            But this is all the Dems fault?
            Well that makes sense. QED.

          • @robotsensei… at very least read the former newspaper NYT. All well publicised and on twitter. Won’t find it here. Ignorance is bliss… just don’t go and advertise what you are.
            @smithy… same. Your non-arguments are lazy. HRC’s comments are on a variety of podcasts. Crazy Maxine has been advocating to harass Trump admin anywhere since his election. Kamala said ‘they’ll never stop”.
            #walkaway

          • Your non-arguments are lazy.

            From someone just repeating right-wing media machine rhetoric, that’s pretty funny.

          • “You need to vote for us otherwise our militia will keep burning, looting, rioting and murdering.”

            Yeah, strong moral high ground right there.

          • “You need to vote for us otherwise our militia will keep burning, looting, rioting and murdering.”

            The “moral high ground” is: “Vote for us so we can try and fix the issues you are rioting about.”

            As opposed to “vote for us so we can throw the rioters in gaol”.

            A famous man once said “riots are the language of the unheard”.

          • These are riots by those who reject the outcome of a democratic election. They aren’t the “ unheard “ . They had their say in the voting booth like everyone else , they lost and they’ve never conceded defeat. Exactly what do you think the “ Resistance “ is if not an outright rejection of democracy ?

          • Rrrright. Because “democracy” just means every 4 years you turn up and have a vote, then have to live under the dictatorship of whoever wins without complaining.

          • Apparently your version of democracy means the right the break the law and commit violent mob acts whenever you feel sufficiently aggrieved.

            Also, I’d like to know how BLM and its supporters are “unheard” when they’ve received nearly wall-to-wall sympathetic media coverage and have woke capital and politicians tripping over themselves to jump on the bandwagon.

            When exactly will the rioters be satisfied? When Joe Biden is elected? When the police are de-funded? When the full BLM agenda is implemented? When every last evil statue is pulled down, the country is thoroughly “de-colonized” and Year Zero achieved?

        • Dam, I disagree.

          Trump has promulgated a clear America First agenda on trade, immigration etc. and succeeded in winning over large chunks of the working and middle classes at the last election. He hasn’t been at all adept at implementing his agenda but it certainly has had an impact on the Republican Party and wider American politics nonetheless.

          What does Biden stand for? The guy has been in politics for an eternity. Yet be doesn’t appear to have any enduring values or positions. Instead he just seems to go along with the latest left-liberal fads.

          • Trump has promulgated a clear America First agenda on trade, immigration etc. and succeeded in winning over large chunks of the working and middle classes at the last election.

            No, he didn’t. Clinton won the popular vote, with only marginally fewer than Obama in 2012.

          • Oh right. So him flipping the Midwest states – former Democrat strongholds – must have been fake news.

          • Ok, this is tedious. Re-read my initial post. Nowhere did I claim that Trump got a majority of votes across the country.

            Trump did, however, manage to appeal to a significant number of working class voters who did not traditionally vote Republican. Hence the results in the Midwest. This had a lot to do with his ‘American First’ positions on trade, manufacturing and immigration. Positions that went against Republican and Democrat orthodoxy.

          • …and succeeded in winning over large chunks of the working and middle classes at the last election.
            No, he didn’t. Clinton won the popular vote, with only marginally fewer than Obama in 2012.

            A lovely non-sequitur, attack what was not said…

          • I think Trump will win but Dems will refuse to concede or get the MSM to muddy the waters regarding legitimacy of the vote. The Dems have spent the last four years denying his legitimacy and repeatedly trying a couple of coup attempts. This time they’ve got existing rioters on edge and participating. It’ll be tragic for the US if Trump wins because the Dems will not accept it. They will provoke so much violence that Trump will be forced to impose martial law and the Dems will take him out in a military coup under the pretence that he is a dictator.

            Trump is being wedged. Which way will the public / military lean after the election is the question determining the outcome . The election results will not be accepted by anyone.

          • Fishing72, I doubt it will be Dem supporters running around with assault rifles if they lose, it certainly will see Trump supporters doing so if he loses.

            How you can blame the democrats for the rioting when Trump openly encourages his supporters to run around the place armed is just mind boggling.

        • buttzilla twennynine

          AirBnB’s more or less dead, hotels going banana’s, why stay? I’m guessing a Texan based Trump Cult Channel w/ Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, Adam Carolla?? big bucks.

    • RobotSenseiMEMBER

      He’s a walking CVA time bomb. Overweight, crap diet, likely OSA… already showing signs of frontotemporal dementia. The Mad King is going to deteriorate with four more years on the throne, dragging America down with it.

      • adelaide_economistMEMBER

        I’m with you on that. Both candidates are way too old to hold this role and both have shown questionable behaviours that suggest that advanced age is taking its toll. People mention Reagan but he wasn’t obviously senile until well into his second term. That said I believe Biden is struggling more than Trump but who really knows. Hillary was having fainting spells and god knows what just prior to the last election. Maybe they need both a maximum and a minimum age to be a President instead of just the latter.

        • Yep. Only need to google trumps family photos with ivanka humpa lot way back when & Biden fondling girls & boys whispering sweet nothings in their ears as their parents look on….all the while on a national stage repeatedly over years at different political events…pay the piper..

      • I agree. I’m not particularly proTrump beyond his efforts against China and a few other globalists. But the Dems are like the political version of Goldman Sachs….entitled vampire squids on the USA. I’m so pro worker in the Capital / Labour debate but see no real hope in Biden whilst Hillary seems a true embodiment of their values.

        Can’t get my head around anyone ever joining the cult of personality around any politician and turning up to cheer at a rally . Crazy stuff. Let alone shooting each other ….WTF ?

        • Can’t get my head around anyone ever joining the cult of personality around any politician and turning up to cheer at a rally .

          LOL. From the guy who wrote above “The Dems have spent the last four years denying his legitimacy and repeatedly trying a couple of coup attempts”.

          You are clearly balls-deep in the QAnon/Trump cult.

      • buttzilla twennynine

        what’s not hilarious, is when your fanatic brother comes round to blast meme-tunes in support of 17 yr/old guntoting brainwashed b*tch – when you also pay his rent (~$500pw), to keep him away form your black gf – who by virtue of skin colour is the enemy now apparently and needs to be peppered with KKK material, she is a quiet centrist. I’m am also now apparently a left terrorist for not cheering every move clownshoe makes (I even support initially). Also, we aren’t in America.

        • What did you want him to do. The tenth amendment says that is the states responsibility… unless you want him to take power over the states. He did what he could and closed the border. Still a fact that democrat states have fared worse than Republican states. Imagine how bad it would have got if a democrat was president.

        • RobotSenseiMEMBER

          The “Democrat” states had more overseas travellers bringing Covid with them. Not surprising they got hit harder early. But this is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.
          And would I like him to have done? Oh I dunno, show even an iota of leadership on the issue? Advocate for social distancing. Stick a mask on. Use the federal government to centrally procure and distribute PPE, ventilators etc rather than leaving the states to outbid each other. Listen to his CMO and not try and sideline them with these stupid ideas of HCQ and bleach. His response will be a textbook example in future of crisis management – what not to do.
          Yes he closed the China border but the cases were coming from Europe. Then again he was too busy rallying and playing golf in Jan/Feb to listen to anyone who might save America from the worst Covid response in the world.

    • darklydrawlMEMBER

      This will become commonplace as ‘deep fake’ videos get cheaper and easier to produce. It will be a big problem as things get more difficult to verify and likely result in an even greater breakdown of trust. Maybe in future video will have some sort of block chain or encryption to prevent tampering. Even then, you can likely create an ‘original/source’ fake easily enough. Hmmm..

      • Surely what we need is a Govt ‘with principles’ to sort out for us what’s real and what’s fake?

        Or a friendly oligarch who owns a global social media platform — I’m sure they’ll do what’s ‘best for the people’ 😉

        • darklydrawlMEMBER

          Yeah, it would be a tough time for comedy writers. Imagine trying to script “Yes Minister” these days! Political reality is now frequently stranger than anything you could script. It’s not just Trump either. BoJo the clown and his side troupe of toadies are a circus in a class of their own – and even our own Aussie Pollies have their jaw dropping WTAF moments. Strange times we live in.

  1. The thing is, it worked because it captures people’s concerns about Biden as a candidate. He comes across as old, stiff and frail. If he wants to be President, he needs to get out, campaign and dispel people’s concerns. If he can do that, then he’s going a long way to proving he can do the job.

    • Charles MartinMEMBER

      Biden has been a kent for 40 years. He and Pelosi should be the poster children for congressional term limits.
      Old Joe has said that nothing will change if he becomes President so why reward him for anything he has done over his career. Most Americans want change, Joe is neither capable or willing to change anything.

      • Was it his ?

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f2Z30j61aw&feature=youtu.be

        And the implicit threats – repeatedly – that the riots will continue if Biden isn’t elected ? That the violence is the fault of Donald ?

        The cognitive dissonance on this has sent United States social media into total meltdown – the idea that the violence across America is now Donald Trumps fault has pushed the entirety of the “undecided” straight to the far right.

        It really is amazing the levels of cognitive dissonance being displayed here.

        Donald is a toad – but Biden is roach.

        • Stewie GriffinMEMBER

          Donald is a toad – but Biden is roach.

          Lol – true.

          This is a textbook play of how the fake news cycle works to discredit a story.

          Popular viral video of out-take of Biden bumbling over a speech, threatens the popular narrative.

          Buzzfeed release a ‘news story’ discrediting popular ‘Trump’ story as fake, of course the viral video they refer to are some other videos that are easily identifiable as fake or suspect.

          Meanwhile the passive consumer of their output, case in point being MB, absorb the idea the popular viral video that came out the day before was the fake one that is being referred to, hence the reason this article still has this at the top:

          We owe readers an apology. Yesterday’s Twitter-sourced bumbling Biden video was fake news

          No it wasn’t – it was an outtake from a Biden speech where despite his 22 minute fixed eye gaze on the teleprompter he still managed to screw up the delivery.

          As for the speech itself – I sat through the whole 23minutes of that dismal dirge and I think most people would have a different idea as it’s “greatness”. Biden teleprompt session was an exercise in spewing lies and blame shifting – eg going against the findings of the official autopsy and still blaming police for George Floyd’s death while ignoring the lethal does of Fentanyl in his system which he swallowed while resisting arrest… keep pushing that fake divisive lie, very presidential and a great way to show support for the Police.

          The murder rate, the destruction of public property and business – these are ALL the result of actions by Democrat supporters and S0r0s affiliated institutions, BLM, AntiFa, etc…. and Biden has the chumpzha to stand there and suggest that unless you vote for him it will continue…. mind you he is merely marching in step with his Vice President Kamala Harris in suggesting these protests and riots are not going to stop – “They’re never going to end”:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2wB6Y6XRu8

          ….and Nevile Chamberlain types who’d rather appease than call out and confront the intolerable behavior of these so called protesters unquestioningly lap it up.

          Interesting idea around Trump having had a mini-stroke though. I certainly wouldn’t discount the possibility – I merely attributed some of the symptoms eg drinking glass, stumbling around, etc as side effects to the Chloroquine course he undertook, but quite possible it was a stroke.

          • “… it was an outtake from a Biden speech where despite his 22 minute fixed eye gaze on the teleprompter he still managed to screw up the delivery.”

            It was a STUTTER!

            🤪

        • The cognitive dissonance on this has sent United States social media into total meltdown – the idea that the violence across America is now Donald Trumps fault has pushed the entirety of the “undecided” straight to the far right.

          If Trump is going to claim responsibility for all the good things that have happened during his presidency, it only seems fair he accept responsibility for all the bad things as well.

        • In fact, your linked Buzzfeed article refers to 2 different videos. A deepfake of a 2011 Harry Belefonte interview and a separate video of a recent address edited out of context.

          Buzzfeed isn’t saying the hundred year slip you posted is fake.

          So now we are two layers into a fake news inception chain!

          • 1 Misdirection at it’s finest, point to another fake and use that to discredit a legitimate video. Sure, it’s a video clearly cut and polished to produce the required narrative…. can someone please point out ANY edited video clip on ANY kind of media that isn’t?

            Trump’s 40 minute rants are carefully edited down to the top 10 seconds of outrage, idiocy or offence and put on CNN loop. Its news media, it’s social media? its their entire business model.

            PS: Love the new definition of “fake news”. Its fake, ok well Its not really fake, but shouldn’t be news therefore = fake news.

          • “Love the new definition of “fake news”. Its fake, ok well Its not really fake, but shouldn’t be news therefore = fake news.”

            🤣

      • My point is that your claim at the top of this page that “Yesterday’s Twitter-sourced bumbling Biden video was a fake” is false. Your extract from the Buzzfeed “scoop” refers to a completely different video which may well be faked. But the clip from yesterday’s video, embedded at the top of this page, isn’t fake. Granted Biden may have stuck closer to the script for the rest of the speech.

          • DLS it is a good quality to admit error. My question: is yours a Trudeau blackface apology, or do you allow others to make mistakes?
            If so, I’d encourage you to look again at TDS and what that means to get a person so completely wrong?

            Case in point – Bruce Hawker had this fully on display on Sky with Bolton. If the MSM hadn’t screw up their narrative so badly and just reported the facts, they could hold Trump to account when he makes terrible policy or sends out terrible tweets. But they cant and have made Trump into a hero. Because every time Trump says something, MSM yells ‘Fire’ or something equally absurd.

          • FWIW ‘Cancel culture’ – the Dems platform on display in Dem States and MSM – only allows certain people to make mistakes.

  2. The BystanderMEMBER

    Glad to see a prompt correction MB – the mainstream media should follow your example, rather than doubling down on obvious errors, or burying apologies in the bottom right corner of page 38 of their tabloids!

    I’m sure we’ll see plenty of examples of both Biden and Trump facing dementia or other health issues in the coming months. With luck it’ll be easier to separate the lies from reality, so we get a better sense of which one is (medically) unfit to be President. Or perhaps that both are walking vegetables!

  3. The debates will sort this issue out once and for all. No more pre-recorded, scripted, teleprompted, edited speeches given to media . Lets see how he does on the fly (even with being given the questions beforehand like Hillary was). However, considering how desperate the Democrats seem to be in wanting to cancel the debates, it would appear that there is indeed a problem.

  4. You can argue all day what’s fake and what’s not fake but the fact is that Trump would destroy Biden if they were to debate.

    But we know Covid will put a stop to those.

    Plus that’s the Dems main angle? We’ll stop burning your cities when Biden gets in?

        • The swamp will eventually be drained but not by any individual action — you look at Congress, the Senate, the gargantuan bureaucracy that sits like Jabba the Hut atop an otherwise productive and dynamic economy. These people have a vested interest in the boat not being rocked — they are on Easy Street, good salaries, good work-life balance, gold-plated jobs i.e. living on the taxpayer teat has never been so good.

          It will end when the money runs out i.e. when the fiat money system collapses and the ability of the commercial banking system to create money from thin air disappears, when the ability of a central bank to create money from thin air to pay for Govt expenses disappears. That’s when the whole swamp gets sucked down the plughole. But not before then.

    • Remember… Trump was going to do the same thing… 4 years is all it takes for people to forget no matter how many times they’ve been told the same story… i’m sure it will be different this time.

  5. David,

    Will MB also apologise for posting the now debunked JAMA cardiology article claiming that Covid-19 was causing cardiac abnormalities on MRI?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfDFrancis/status/1298510171652718593

    https://mobile.twitter.com/IAmTheActualET/status/1295745239878119427

    Nearly immediately after publication of the JAMA-Cardiology paper, Darrel Francis and Graham Cole from Imperial College, among a handful of others, noted that the numbers in the main table were mathematically impossible. An example was something as simple as the IQR (interquartile range) surrounding age. They were simply too narrow to be true.

    These revelations led to a rapid review of the paper and this week, JAMA-Cardiology published a revised paper and letter of explanation from the authors.

    Back to Darrel Francis’s Twitter time line. Here he shows the before and after. The short story is that, yes, the numbers were corrected, the IQRs changed to something else, but something happened to the main finding of the paper—the T1 abnormalities.

    Here the number of normal controls with abnormal findings doubled, the number of risk factor (RF) control people went from 23 to 33. The authors ran a p-value on the three columns (recovered COVID, normal, and RF controls). It was significant. But this is totally wrong. COVID patients are mostly middle-aged or older. You have to compare the post infection MRI to those matched on risk factors. If you do that: 73% of 100 COVID patients had the abnormal T1, 58% of 57 non-COVID patients (with similar risk factors) had it. Francis calculated this p-value and it is no longer significant

    In summary: A major journal publishes a small non-randomized study of cardiac MRI after a viral infection. No one really knows what a cardiac MRI would like after severe viral infection from say parainfluenza, human metapneumovirus, or influenza. The original paper gets more than a half a million views. Media goes ballistic over it. But nearly all the data in the main table is wrong. Mathematically impossible.

    • In other words, the only reasonable explanation (“mathematically impossible”) was that the authors completely falsified the data

      Then used the “corrected” data to draw a completely invalid conclusion by comparing it with a group that was not matched (younger, fitter, healthier)

      And the usual squawking panic merchants on here used it to justify their increasingly untenable stance

        • did you read what I wrote you cretin?
          Or any of the links provided?

          As I have said , the “revised” data (which could still well be falsified) has been used to compare the covid group with the normal group, BUT NO ATTEMPT WAS MADE TO CONTROL FOR OTHER RISK FACTORS INCLUDING AGE AND COMORBIDITY

          Please try to use your tiny peanut brain to understand

          Once again

          Here the number of normal controls with abnormal findings doubled, the number of risk factor (RF) control people went from 23 to 33. The authors ran a p-value on the three columns (recovered COVID, normal, and RF controls). It was significant. But this is totally wrong. COVID patients are mostly middle-aged or older. You have to compare the post infection MRI to those matched on risk factors. If you do that: 73% of 100 COVID patients had the abnormal T1, 58% of 57 non-COVID patients (with similar risk factors) had it. Francis calculated this p-value and it is no longer significant

          • This is the problem with completely uneducated people commenting

            Read the revised paper

            They presented the P value comparing all 3 columns, instead of just comparing the Covid group with their risk-factor-matched controls.

            They did not match the risk factors

            When the risk factors are matched, there is no significant difference

            See here if you would like a full explanation of the re-working

            https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfDFrancis/status/1298520908940935168

            Prof francis even uses language you can understand when presenting the statistics

            “In other words, yes there are those funny thingies in the scan,

            But it is NOTHING TO DO WITH HAVING HAD COVID.

            It is because of the background risk factors.”

            Now the question is why did the authors (and the journal editors) decide not to control for risk factors and age when they republished the now allegedly “real” data?

            Are they stupid?
            Or do they have an agenda?

            Well interestingly, the authors did a livestream video after the revised data was published

            And they had no explanation for how the original data came to be so wildly incorrect (mathematically impossible)

            Then became uncomfortable when quizzed on it, and decided to terminate the interview

            https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfDFrancis/status/1299606665738805248

          • You mean like when he said I was “lying as usual”?

            I think I “lost” the argument when I decided to engage with two people who don’t have the most basic understanding of science and statistics

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            “when I decided to engage with two people who don’t have the most basic understanding of science and statistics”
            lol. OK.

          • so you wouldn’t like to address the substance of the discussion?

            Just snide remarks to try to make me look bad?

            I’ll give you a chance

            Go and have a careful read, then come back and see if you agree or not

          • Are you really this dumb?

            A quote taken from the stupid article you posted

            “”The revised Jama Cardio paper is brilliant. It’s an all-clear! The interesting features on the scans in Covid survivors are real, but they are caused by the risk factors, not by the covid,” he tweeted.”

            THE FEATURES ON THE SCANS IN COVID SURVIVORS ARE REAL, BUT THEY ARE CAUSED BY THE RISK FACTORS, NOT BY COVID

            THE FEATURES ON THE SCANS IN COVID SURVIVORS ARE REAL, BUT THEY ARE CAUSED BY THE RISK FACTORS, NOT BY COVID

            Yes you are really this dumb

          • The bottom line is that high-sensitivity troponin T and high-sensitivity C-reactive protein as markers of cardiac injury and inflammation, respectively, were both significantly higher in the COVID-recovered patients than controls. You can argue that these factors are caused by non-covid related issues, but that’s a matter of interpretation.

            And so far, Francis is a lone voice:
            https://www.tctmd.com/news/message-unchanged-say-researchers-criticized-covid-19-cmr-study

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/2770026
            “As we originally reported, compared with healthy controls and risk factor–matched controls, patients recently recovered from COVID-19 had lower left ventricular ejection fraction, higher left ventricle volume, and elevated values of T1 and T2.”
            Like every junior doctor is told in their training, stop looking at the scans and look instead at your patient. Who gives a stuff about their cMRI findings? Their reduced EF and dilated LV is cause for concern, particularly (politically) as the paper was partially relied upon for cancellation of some college football leagues in the US. No doubt this is unpopular in Republican heartland (no pun intended), but what first round prospect wants to get medical red-flagged before the draft and cost themselves millions of dollars?
            So tl;dr underlying concern of paper is correct; initial stats did not support cMRI finding but CLINICAL ones still of note.

          • Robot Sensei: read the discussion from Prof Francis as to why their revised conclusions are still wrong

            The fact is that they inexplicably published data that was mathematically impossible (and refused to provide any explanation of how that happened)

            Would you still believe anything they say at this point?

            Then the professor of cardiology at Imperial College London completely destroyed their revised data interpretation

            Revert2Mean: The CRP and troponin REMAINED WITHIN THE NORMAL RANGE
            Of what significance do you think this is then and why?
            CRP rises in all infection

            https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfDFrancis/status/1298617466801790976

          • Prof Francis does not fully agree with the conclusions. He thinks there are some confounding issues. That’s one man. Let’s wait and see what others say. I’m going with the paper’s findings. It stands to reason that this virus, which can cause a myriad of problems, some of them severe, could be inflaming heart tissue long-term.

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            Let’s pretend everything you’ve said so far is correct (for sake of argument)
            Are you suggesting the LVEF and heart size data is also incorrect with the logic being “incorrect by association”?
            Because to me this is the more relevant end-point. And nothing I have read so far makes me think this is inaccurate.

          • Robot Sensei: The way in which they compared the data is flawed
            Those differences in LVEF etc also disappear when you perform the correct statistical analysis

            From Revert2Means further random news aggregator link

            “While the researchers included P values showing significant differences in the blood test results and CMR findings between the three study groups, the P value for a three-arm comparison is unhelpful because it includes a healthy control group who’d be expected to have much better lab and CMR results than COVID-19 patients, he said. Instead, the most important comparator arm is the risk factor-matched control group, and when looking at those cohorts, the difference in abnormal CMR findings isn’t nearly so striking, Francis argued.”

            “To TCTMD, Puntmann said they appreciated Francis’s contributions to the discussion and are grateful he is helping to put their changes into perspective. All corrections, she stressed, were made to “improve the clarity of the presentation and not to change or correct the content,” she said in an email. With respect to the statistical analysis, Puntmann said they followed the direction of the journal’s statistician to present their data in a three-way comparison throughout the paper to be consistent. ”

            Now the question is why did the journal editors instruct them to do a 3 way p test?

            Who even cares what the differences are between covid survivors and healthy non-matched volunteers?

            The only relevant comparison is with age and comorbidity matched non-COVID individuals (even a layperson can understand this)

            So what was the reasoning for forcing the authors to choose this 3 way test instead?

            Probably, the journal editors trying to save face
            Less likely, they are stupid
            Least likely, a dedicated conspiracy to arouse panic

          • Just a note about this guy Darrel Francis, the ONLY top academic who disagrees with the paper:

            * he makes about 50-100 tweets per day (which successful cardiologist has got the time for THAT??)

            * Of Trump, he said “I love him, he is a “real lad” as we would say in the UK”

            Bit of a righty, I think. With a lot of time on his hands.

          • RobotSenseiMEMBER

            Coming, you are critiquing with blinkers on. Whether the TnI’s, CRP, cMRI data has been manipulated etc etc is irrelevant. The LVEF and ventricular dilatation data has not. These are more important prognostically in heart failure. This paper is still early days. Argue away but you’re missing the bigger picture.

          • Robot Sensei why are you not listening to what I’m saying

            The authors/editors, for some bizarre reason, insisted that they use a 3 way ANOVA to determine the p values
            (and the authors were careful to note that they used it because the journal editors INSISTED on it, not because they themselves wanted to use it)

            This is incorrect as we have discussed
            The only relevant comparison is between the covid patients and the MATCHED controls

            Revert2Mean: everything you have said has proven to be incorrect

            So you have spent (2?) hours digging through his tweets to find something to character assassinate him with?
            And that was the best you could come up with?

            The man is the Professor of cardiology at one of the most prestigious institutes in the world
            He is a prolific author of scientific papers, and a prolific critic of bad science

            Even the links you have provided have done nothing to strengthen your case

            If it comes to a debate between Prof Francis, and the authors of this paper (who have either deliberately falsified data or are so inept with basic statistics that they can’t even recognize that the values they provided were mathematically impossible. And then refused to provide any explanation as to how this happened, and refused to continue questions), then I know who I would believe.

            Do you have any other experts who have weighed in on this?

            Unless you have the expertise to discuss statistics and medicine, perhaps its best you shut up?

      • Jdjdjjr Jcjddjdjd

        I’m really not into deplatforming but please can someone moderate the total garbage spouting from r2m and robotsensei? It’s just insulting to anyone trying to attempt intelligent inquiry.

  6. Massive amount of EGG on the faces of so many commenters and MB yesterday. Gullible has a new definition today.

    Stand tall those who saw it for what it was; another pathetic attempt by the GOP to hoodwink the public- Swampy, Revert2mean, P13, MB reader, marked64 and me.

      • No, but It was edited to focus on a very specific and somewhat small section of the whole speech in order to make Biden look like a bumbling fool.

        I watched both and when you see that section in context of the rest of the speech it really just sounded like he got tongue tied due to the scale of it all and for some reason the edited version seemed to be so much longer than the actual speech version….. context is important.

    • SMH is for reading the headlines only champ, perhaps r.e.a.d the detail (minus the buzz feed BS) The video in question was not ‘fake’ it was simply a small portion of a longer speech, curated for effect. What the hell else did viewers think it was? clearly it was a snippet from a larger speech? The exact same snippets that will be used as political weapons on every major news network and political campaign production by all side of politics. It appears the definition of gullible hasn’t changed after all.

    • It’s irrelevant – it’ll make no difference to the result. How many many ‘undecideds’ are floating around out there right now?

      There are two sides and you are on one or the other. A video, fake or otherwise will make no odds at this point.

    • The original clip of Biden was legit.

      Yes, it was a small excerpt from a much longer speech, carefully selected to make Biden look bad. Hardly an uncommon tactic. The media does this on a daily basis to Trump.

    • Jumping jack flash

      This.

      People will learn that there is no choice.
      Banks run the show, closely followed by business, and the politicians are simply their puppets and salespeople.

      Put Biden in the seat. Watch how nothing changes.

      Marvel and be flabbergasted at the dramatic change we experienced with Scomo after Gillard/Rudd/Abbott.
      So much change. I simply can’t recognise the place now!

      All we got was larger and larger piles of debt attached to more expensive houses, continuously lowered interest rates and continuously gouged essential living expenses, and increased wage theft.

      Wow, such change!
      How good is the economy?

      But I’m sure it will all change if only Labor was in the seat.

  7. Prettyfly Forawhiteguy

    If fake news is now defined as a small selected segment of a larger whole then pretty much everything is fake news. Still does not change the Trump landslide that’s coming in November. To the most severe TDS sufferers in here – it will be glorious to gloat as you kneel and gaze up into the sky with arms outstretched wailing “Noooooooo!” once more.

  8. Jumping jack flash

    The showmen of the US of A. Nothing has changed, and I don’t think it ever could.

    “Step right up, folks and witness the magnificent medicinal miracle of Simpson and Son’s patented Revitalizing Tonic!”

    They’re an extroverted kind of people. They live to entertain. It must be in their genes.
    The world’s clowns, if you will.

    Empty vessels make the most noise. Never been truer.

  9. Australian media is dominated by left wing anti Trump haters & is massively out of touch with US sentiment and politics.
    First of all let me state very confidently.

    🇺🇸 Donald Trump👌🏻 2020 4 more years.

    Trump will win an ECV majority of 65%+ perhaps Republicans 350 to Democrats 188.
    He will increase his majority in the Senate and he will take back the House.

    Trump will retain the ECV states in his 2016 win as ECV of 304 / 538 (57% ECV majority)

    His base is unwavering. And now joined by many Bernie’s who hate Biden as much as Hillary & the educated or reemployed blacks (before the Chinese virus impact) who all respect Trump as the best thing for black people since Abraham Lincoln.

    Trump will also win MN, NH, ME, NV, NM, CO + VA. And potentially OR in shock overturn.
    (All the China funded left wing radical Democrat incited racism on display..).

    The white US majority will vote against the Democrat’s incited radical urban left wing fanatics & the black criminals & street gang violence.

    Trump will also do well with white educated woman & black mothers – let’s face it – no self respecting black or white woman is going to vote for the creepy hair sniffing child groping white elitist Joe Biden or his fake pseudo barren ‘woman of color’ the lying & confused ex alcoholic Indian Kamala Harris.

    Prediction.
    Trump with an ECV majority of 65% ✔️

    👉🏾White vote of over 56%✔️
    👉🏾Black vote up from 8% to 16%+👌🏻
    👉🏾Hispanic vote of well over 52%✔️
    👉🏾Asian & Indian vote of over 63%✔️

    👉🏾Male vote of over 57%✔️
    👉🏾Female vote of over 51% ✔️
    👉🏾Educated & working (non government non Obama appointed) vote of over 68% 👌🏻
    👉🏾Armed forces vote of 91% ✔️
    👉🏾Police & enforcement vote of 86%👌🏻
    👉🏾Pro gun voters (mostly white) 91%👌🏻

    The Democrat voter base is now hollowed and exposed as a coalition of infighting factions & parasitic swill:

    The Democrat’s base in the US.
    🔻Lower socioeconomic urban welfare dependent
    🔻The lower educated Obama etc appointed left wing parasites sucking off taxpayers in a government job
    🔻The urban effete left wing radicals
    🔻The Climate alarmist nutters
    🔻The gender confused
    🔻And the black racist anti white haters & Muslim brainwashed (who mostly don’t vote)
    🔻The criminal illegals voting illegally.
    🔻And the Mail vote fraud – the only chance the democrats had of overturning the real vote is going to have a lot more scrutiny this election.
    (The Democrats right now today expect to lose on election night and then overturn the result weeks later on mail vote fraud)

    -/-

    The US today is a lawn forest of Trump signs.

    Red hatted Maga’s joined by a large swell of undecided and ex Democrats who see the inept senile corrupt Joe Biden and his white elitist cronies & tokenistic VP idiot Harris as not representing them or any future.
    To be honest Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard would have been a more electable combination against Trump.

    Anyway we will see.

    It’s going to be a Trump landslide and the only question is by how much.

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