Morrison Government lurches towards virus civil war

This is incendiary stuff from Coalition stalwart, David Kemp, at the AFR:

Slowing the spread of the virus was the policy announced by the Prime Minister and that Australians supported, on the basis that it was the policy of the so-called national cabinet. Unfortunately, some states opted for a political strategy of heightening community fears over every new infection, effectively supporting the chimerical goal of permanent elimination of the virus in their state, leading to further restrictions.

These conflicting policies have never been admitted, justified or even debated publicly by our governments.

The authoritarian outrage now being enacted in Victoria is without coherent justification. If it has one, it is that the Victorian government is incapable of putting in place an administrative system to quarantine infections and trace contacts, the obvious alternative. No clear public analysis has been made available.

It’s not an obvious alternative yet. NSW has done well but it is still early.

Nor is eradication impossible with the right will and leadership, obviously enough, given other states.

It is absolutely true that the Andrews Government is a catastrophe. But Kemp’s outburst is also the plaintive whine of a Liberal Party whose suppression strategy has not worked in a fractured federation and, arguably, it should have known that it wouldn’t.

It was too clever by half. Why didn’t it take control of the borders and quarantine with the army like NZ? It hid behind diffused responsibility instead.

As well, if VIC fails to eliminate the virus this time around then no other state will open to it ever again.

Readers will know that I’m one of the lucky ones that is currently into his third lockdown. It sucks the big one but, OK, I’ll do it for as long as necessary to rid us of this scourge.

But I’m not going to do it for a toxic David Kemp’s permavirus dystopia. Nah, ah.

Dodgy Dan knows this. And if the Feds come at Victoria with an insistence that he “suppress” the virus then Andrews will go all-in on elimination.

And, the likes of me, who are appalled at his failed state, will back him in.

Andrews has the whip hand. He has the power to stay shut. The power to force Morrison to spend. And, before long, the power to shut NSW down as well. In fact, at this point, Dan Andrews is the real prime minister of Australia.

Morrison should ignore the internecine whine of Kemp et al and get in front of this by backing elimination so that he can at least appear to be in charge.

That should be easy for Scotty from Marketing.

David Llewellyn-Smith
Latest posts by David Llewellyn-Smith (see all)

Comments

  1. Scummo driven by popular opinion cant afford to put offside the power house left in the economy.
    If the iron ore shipments stop because of lockdown then TSHTF

    https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/wa-to-argue-for-clive-palmer-border-challenge-retrial-following-commonwealth-withdrawal-20200806-p55j3s.html

    Two days after the initial hearing, the Commonwealth withdrew its support of Mr Palmer’s position that WA’s ‘all-or-nothing’ approach to the border closure was unconstitutional.

    A spokesman for Premier Mark McGowan said the Premier had requested the federal government back WA’s application for a retrial.

    Prime Minister Scott Morrison said the Commonwealth would “assist the WA government with what they’re seeking to achieve”.

    “The WA government asked us to withdraw from the case with no other requests,” he told reporters in Canberra on Thursday.

    “We did that on Monday. We did it fulsomely and comprehensively. But I’ll be writing back to [the Premier] today.

    “And our response, I believe, will assist what they’re seeking to do.

    “The WA Premier, he has a quarrel, not with me on this at all. His quarrel is elsewhere.”

  2. I don’t agree with the comment. What Dan Andrews is doing is absolutely reckless and will ruin so many people’s livelihoods. You cannot eradicate the virus, nor will probably be a vaccine on the horizon soon (remember how long scientists tried to get a HIV or Dengue Fever vaccine….).
    I live in Europe now and here we live with the virus, trying as good as we can to keep infections down by using masks, hand hygiene and distancing. But we still get hundreds of new infections a day, it doesn’t however mean that all people fall ill. As is the case in Australia, most of the deaths occur in people aged 80 , many of them with pre-existing conditions. The economy is recovering here, we go to the office, eat out in restaurants etc etc. only sporting events are still heavily impacted with max. 1,000 spectators allowed in stadiums.
    I think the right policy is to try to live with the virus and do what we can to minimize the impact. Eradication is not possible unless you close down your borders forever.

    • “The economy is recovering here, we go to the office, eat out in restaurants etc etc. only sporting events are still heavily impacted with max. 1,000 spectators allowed in stadiums.”

      Yes WA is exactly like that. But our state borders are closed. Trade and goods are moving in and out of the state which has a land mass of several European countries. The only thing restricted is the movement of potential diseased peoples.
      I have no intention of sacrificing my 90 year old parents. If you want to throw your relatives to the mercy of the virus go right ahead. Eradication is possible and keeping our international borders closed will not inhibit economic activity or trade that is worthwhile. It only stops diseased peoples from coming in.

      • Exactly! And when eradication has happened you get 10,000, or the capacity of the stadia, at sporting events.
        I will say one thing, though. I reckon we all got one crack at this, and for those that didn’t take the opportunity that time may never come again.
        I have severe doubt that NZ could do the absolute shut-down it did, again. We went ‘hard and early’ and today you wouldn’t know life is any different to January out there. But given some individuals’ behaviour that may be an effort in vain and we are about to find out…..
        (NB: It’s not new or recent history for us. We did/are doing the same for the cattle disease Mycoplasma bovis that most of the world, including Australia, ‘lives with’, and that eradication strategy, too, looks to be working)

    • Totally agree Wiseguy, its the only way to do it. look after the old and infirm, but they will be exposed to it eventually anyways

      The feeling on the street from everyone in the lockup zone I know is pure rage. There will be protests / riots soon .

    • Aussies Not Doing The Right Thing

      Europe is a disaster. We should be looking towards the success stories in Asia.

      • BoomToBustMEMBER

        In the end all of these are opinions or projections of what could / would / might occur. So many variables depending on the path taken. There is zero hard data to support a total elimination success strategy with so many infections already. We are all speculating. However Dictator Dan has made the decision to take Vic to Stage 4 lockdown, we will see in 5.5 weeks whether his strategy worked or not.

        What I find fascinating is the level of fear mongering being pushed, when was the last time we locked down a state so hard and needed to test to check if you had a “deadly” virus?? As a matter of fact its so deadly many people dont even know they have it. And so far the hard data show most (not all) the deaths are elderly people, wouldnt we be better to fully support the most vulnerable in our society that are likely to die from CV19 and allow the rest of us to get back to life??

        • You grossly underestimate the severity of this of this virus in younger cohorts. The latest studies indicate that 80% of people develop heart inflammation and 50% of people hospitalized suffer mild brain damage. These things take months to years to recover from and could easily lead to chronic disease epidemics in a huge proportion of the population.

          • Gee Rob, chronic disease in young people at scale. That sounds, I don’t know, super expensive to the health budget and productive capacity of our country?

            We should definitely do it, though, because ideology and plandemic.

          • PaperRooDogMEMBER

            Yes, it’s not just the deaths we need to consider, if 80% of the population get it even though curve is suppressed & hospitals not overrun so deaths still low will the impacts of people self locking down combined with secondary health impacts on economic output be worse than going for complete eradication? I don’t think anyone has enough reliable data to make a valid call at this point. On the other hand if secondary economic health impacts are minimal & heard immunity is gained in countries like the US they could come out ahead in the longer run economically. Though so far China which contained it to some localised areas seems to be one of the better off economically.

        • fully support the most vulnerable in our society that are likely to die from CV19

          How do you fully support someone when they’re dead? Pay for their funeral?

    • Said by foreigner living in another country.
      Kind of like aus expats living in uk whining of Brexit.

      Here in Queensland the vast majority are just hoping we aren’t swamped by southerners, shame we can’t go overseas , but Queensland is awesome.

      • Agreed. We should secede immediately and prevent anyone from migrating permanently from other States!

        Fck ’em – we’re full!

        • What a bunch of intellectuals on this site, my suggestion is get more creative with the swear words and name calling and a solution to any crisis will materialise sooner

      • Yep, many times I’ve thought thank feck we’re not dealing with the shite they are down south.

    • “You cannot eradicate the virus,..” – NZ and few of states here probably don’t exist in your world.

      • kiwikarynMEMBER

        You cannot eradicate the virus … forever. There, fixed it. Even us NZers understand that we are merely in a holding pattern, waiting for either a vaccine to arrive, the virus to die out, or for the rest of the world to acquire sufficient herd immunity that we may join them without too much risk. We can’t stay shut forever. Nobody wants to live in North Korea.

        • “You cannot eradicate the virus … forever. There, fixed it. Even us NZers understand that we are merely in a holding pattern, waiting for either a vaccine to arrive, the virus to die out,..” wouldn’t vaccine or virus dying out mean eradication of the virus?
          Anyway, here is another alternative to consider – or wait until new test becomes available that can diagnose inside couple of hours. Then you can open the country and all tourists or visitors must spend couple of hours in quarantined areas until they get all clear.
          If new tests can diagnose inside 30min then no need for quarantine as tests can be performed at the airport and visitors will have to pay for them so no cost to the taxpayer.
          This way NZ stays virus free forever.

        • waiting for either a vaccine to arrive, the virus to die out, or for the rest of the world to acquire sufficient herd immunity

          Isn’t at least one of those not forever?

    • What crap! A large % of virologists don’t seem to agree with you. I’d also suggest your rose tinted glasses view of who is impacted is rubbish. You surely cannot be ignorant of the medical advice coming out of the US and your own backyard of the health implications for normal healthy people who get this virus.

      I’m also in WA and like things just as they are.

  3. migtronixMEMBER

    You’ll be in permanent lockdown. There hasn’t been anywhere that got rid of the Italian lineage once it was out in community transmission.

    • SoCalSurfCreeperMEMBER

      Elimination might be possible if you could really lock down everyone. But some businesses must continue. People need to eat. People need electricity. People need to build houses (apparently) and tradies are allowed to move between sites. People need to buy and sell houses (apparently). So even if a single case from a population of 5 million goes undetected then eventually it will get out again and you’ll be back to half-lock-down whack a mole.

    • Your behavior during this pandemic has honestly been insufferable.

      How about instead of spending all your time telling everyone how hard and unfair life is – and how you would have been SO MUCH BETTER – you actually go out and help.

      You’ve never made a social contribution in your life – bet you’ve NEVER volunteered in the bush fires or even the SES – you just sit in the inner city telling everyone how good you are and how sh1t everyone else is.

      You contribute nothing mate.

      • migtronixMEMBER

        And you Gatto? What have you done mate besides corrupt everything and sell underaged girls you giant pile of sh!t?
        WTF

      • migtronixMEMBER

        I’m the only one who’s called the progress of the virus in Victoria because unlike you Gatto you giant sack of human garbage, I can use my brain for analysis not wishing upon a star.

    • Italian lineage was 80% of Wuhan cases. They had 100k plus and eliminated despite cramped living.

  4. TightwadMEMBER

    All these draconian police state restrictions were sold to us on the basis of ‘flattening the curve’. Turns out that was totally unnecessary as the hospitals are/were empty and now it has morphed into eradication and Melbourne has become N Korea with troops on the streets because 80 year olds are dying in aged care homes as steps weren’t taken to protect them, surprisingly, the more you test the more you find when the virus is so mild that most people are asymptotic or don’t even know they’ve got it.
    Most people I know do not support these lockdowns (even many who originally did) as even a fool can see they are useless and the cost far outweighs any ephemeral benefit however much the hysterical ‘lock us up’ crowd label anyone who doesn’t agree with them as a loon or crazy.
    The public mood is changing rapidly now and fracturing our society.

    • SoCalSurfCreeperMEMBER

      lock downs to the degree imposed by dictator dan are not sustainable for long. People fall apart. The harms caused by despair become greater than the harm that the virus would have caused.

      • Rubbish. Everyone is coping fine – absolutely everyone is doing there best in tough times.

        There are some weak as cats urine, utterly pathetic whiners who would collapse into a puddle of weak tea at the merest idea of having to get off the couch and spend their lives sooking uncontrollably online in forums like this, people like you.

        But you are the ridiculous minority no one wants to hear from. The sobbing, blubbering mess in the corner wailing that its all too hard and the first sign of trouble.

        You’d be great in Beirut right now – a real pillar for people to lean on.

        • Sunlord BCNMEMBER

          Mick
          I live in Melb and I hate even catching a cold
          I’d love to get rid of the virus altogether
          I also thought before this reset, the greed debt corruption etc was disgusting
          Everyone fighting over money and useless and excessive material possessions etc
          But the economic devastation, bankruptcies food shortages unemployment and times worse than rhe Great Depression will when we look back in history to be much worse
          In Melb VIC the economic depression over the next decade will be more than Second World War Great Depression and all depression of the last 50 years combined
          In VIC unemployment will be 30/40%, house prices will fall 50 to 80%
          The economic devastation to families will be irreparable
          VIC like it always does will trigger the 10 year AUST depression

          I’m doing my research on my soup van
          I’m going to call it SUNLORD ☀️ with big sun pics on it
          $1 big soups (Sun Soup will be the special of the day)
          I’ll be focussed on the more affluent suburbs because they will be hit the hardest (the affluent have the most debt)

          The affluent this time will be effluent

          • BoomToBustMEMBER

            We are in Melbourne as well, but we are looking at QLD at present. Much better bang for buck for property, and the properties we are looking at are much more the lifestyle we seek (acre or few, pool, large verandah, high rain fall, lots of sun, warmer weather), QLD appears to be much more spread out than Vic where everyone is packed into Melbourne, and every second block is sub-divided and traffic a continuing nightmare. Add Dictator Dan (of the CCP Belt and Road) and his Socialist Party requiring ID papers into the mix and locking people into Melbourne and a river border to stop you escaping the state then I think its time to leave this shit hole behind.

          • Jumping jack flash

            “Everyone fighting over money and useless and excessive material possessions etc”

            This.

            And it wasn’t even real money. It was debt or someone elses debt, laundered into existence through a property transaction.

            The banks are the ones at fault here, capitalising on peoples’ ignorance about how debt works and who benefits from it. Starve the banks of their interest and watch them die quickly.

          • Sunlord BCNMEMBER

            @le
            How good is that truck …… big mother fcker

            @boom
            The issue that Melb metro will face is that similar to Illinois, Chicago people are just going to exit en masse
            Many will never find a buyer of their home at any price
            There are also many that want to leave but are stuck in negative equity so can’t sell even if they wanted to
            Initially these places you say in QLD will rise in price but they’ll fall to eventually

            @jump
            Many are to blame
            Politicians
            Bankers
            Regulators
            Vested interests etc

            This is a “leveller”

            Don’t worry this virus is going to fix wealth inequality

            The value of essential good and services, your ability to barter, ability to be resourceful, people with compassion and kindness will survive in the new world.

          • That Inter would be a pig to drive with the turning radius of Queen Mary – horrible in the city especially inner city tight streets severely limiting parking options. Petrol engine too but then again your plan is not to rack up the miles. If it is really just soup (and bread etc) then that makes it much easier and cheaper to scale right back to smaller cheaper easier.

          • haroldusMEMBER

            I notice that truck has condiments and camp condiments. Is that for when it comes to east Sydney?

          • B2B your in for a shock if you think QLD premier is better. The election is in 3 months and she is hush, if she gets voted in again she will be DA the 2nd

          • Sunlord BCN, it appears Hungry Jacks beat you to it. Missus got a flier from them today, order from Uber Eats, and for $1.00 buck, plus delivery charges, you’ll get;

            2 beef burgers
            2 cheese burgers
            4 small packs of thick cut chips
            10 golden chicken nuggets, yes that’s correct, golden ones
            4 Cokes

            I’m sure you Sun Soup is better than Grandma’s pumkin and tomato (with cracked pepper too), but, why pay $1.00 and having to make an effort for a bowl of soup, when for $6 bucks, you can have a Hungry Jacks mega feast brought to your door?

            Have your go Sunlord, sell me a soup!

        • SoCalSurfCreeperMEMBER

          Why the Ad Hominem attacks Mick?

          Neither of these options are good. I doubt the people who have lost and are losing their life’s work are coping well. I doubt people locked up with abusive partners are coping well. I’ve experienced lock down and I’ve experienced rampant virus. I am on my 5th day of hotel quarantine right now. I have a personal preference to live with the virus and its associated risks in freedom than to live in a virus-free police state..That is not weakness. It’s a moral and ethical judgment about a trade off between freedom and safety.

          • Sunlord BCNMEMBER

            I agree
            There needs to be a balanced discussion and AT LEAST an acknowledgment of the economic devastation and how it will impact people’s lives
            As you say
            Domestic violence
            Unemployment
            Food shortages etc

          • Jevons ghostMEMBER

            It ought to be possible to short-circuit this whole unpleasant COVID 19 business once a proven effective treatment is available for the relatively few of those infected with the SARS-2-CoV virus who develop life-threatening complications .

            There is at least one very promising treatment on the horizon. Currently a large multi-centre clinical trial utilising mesenchymal stem cell therapy is being carried out in the US; it is weeks away from completion. If proven to be successful, the use of mesenchymal stem cell infusions as a component of the treatment regimen for those with moderate to severe complications of this virus infection ought to mean that the rest of us should be free to go about our normal business, provided that those who are truly vulnerable are protected using the effective public health initiatives that we already know about. Namely basic hygiene measures, social distancing and the appropriate wearing of masks in high risk environments. One hopes that the State and Commonwealth public health units will then stop running around like headless chooks and re-group, so as to be ready to deal expeditiously with the next nasty bug to emerge out of wherever.

        • Domestic violence is up %86, youth suicide (15-25yrs) is up 50%. Not sold on the ‘everyone doing well’ part.

          • Sunlord BCNMEMBER

            It’s very irresponsible to not acknowledge the other devastation this is causing to peoples lives

          • I don’t believe the suicide stats yet, what are your references? Misery loves company and while some new people may be pushed to the brink, others will be finding their misery is not so bad among the (supposed) general misery. still think a lot of people find upsides to lockdown, too.
            Also, while it is probable that in the next ten years there could be the misery of a Great Depression, with a bit of imagination and sound policy, the impacts could be shared and minimised. If that doesn’t happen it’s because that’s a choice people ultimately make.

          • Mike Herman TroutMEMBER

            I work in mental health in Victoria. I have never been busier. Staggering increase in demand.

          • Covid direct damages the brain leading to chronic fatigue syndrome, depression, early onset dementia etc. So while shutdown is a massive problem for mental health, getting infected is potentially an order of magnitude worse.

          • drsmithyMEMBER

            It’s amazing how many people are suddenly concerned about suicide and domestic violence.

          • Yes , it’s made me question what’s the value point of anything. All the hard work seems to have been pointless, in regards to uni , career , work all that really matters is family

    • were sold to us on the basis of ‘flattening the curve’. Turns out that was totally unnecessary

      Indeed all that lockdown effort in April and May in Victoria has been completely wasted….

  5. Never seen so many pathetic fully grown adults whinge with such a trivial imposition, total capitulation at the mildest hurdle.

    Thank christ I have never had to have any of you ridiculous children standing next to me in a serious confrontation, thank christ our great grandfathers are not here to watch your utterly ridiculous whining over the most trivial requirement.

    People go out and literally DIE, knowingly sacrificing their lives to save their communities from this virus – and the layabouts on this comment section find it all a bit hard. Our great grandfathers and fathers were knowingly sent to their deaths trenches and jungle forests – but you find it a bit unreasonable to have because Migtronix can’t get his Parma at the “Grace Darling” and you have to stay home for a couple of extra weeks.

    Disgraceful – absolutely appalling.

    • Where’s the love dude?

      If you were standing next to my to kids they’d prob take you out , the youngest is a cyco little Kent and he’s only 9 god help me,

    • reusachtigeMEMBER

      Mick, you’re a fat prick, so it’s understandable that you are so scared. I will never see you as the fearless standover man anymore. A little virus has you all chicken sh1t. LOLOLOL

    • Doesn’t this work the other way round to what you think?

      In 1941 we as a nation could admit that in order for normal society to continue, it would involve harm and sacrifice, however unpalatable.
      Now, we can’t stomach that so we sacrifice society instead. A huge detriment to the many to save the few, many of an age and level of health where they can’t be saved in the short/medium term anyway.

      I think the people you deride are just realists who have come to the conclusion that covid is just as unavoidable as the Japanese army at our doorstep.

      • to the contrary. the nature of all war is to sacrifice the younc and healthy for the interests of society, especially those who are too old and vulnerable to fight themselves.

        • So we can accept that sometimes you will get horrible unavoidable wars where the young do have to make sacrifices in the interests of society but somehow we can’t accept horrible unavoidable pandemics where the old and frail will be a large part of the sacrifice in order to maintain society?

          I don’t care how important someone thinks they are, a 90 year old with other morbidities being knocked off by Covid is not on the same scale of tragedy of a 20 year old shot by a sniper at Kokoda. It just isn’t.

          • yeah, nah. like i said, the war metaphor doesnt work for the ‘let it rip’ crowd where you are deliberately choosing to sacrifice the old and vulnerable. unless your idea of fighting a war is pulling a French surrender monkey act.

          • Again you use this word ‘deliberately’ inferring some element of choice and control. See back to my original post;

            “I think the people you deride are just realists who have come to the conclusion that covid is just as unavoidable as the Japanese army at our doorstep.”

        • migtronixMEMBER

          That’s not true. We don’t sacrifice for those who are too frail to fight, we just want to win so aren’t stupid enough to field them. FFS.

        • Only in modern times, in ancient times the fathers were on the front lines with their sons behind them and it was seen as a dishonour to live if your son was killed while fighting. Modern wars are mostly about finance and capital and the bankers have no intention of being in harms way so they send those that are poor and naive enough out to fight for them, which is sadly the youth.

      • 30 years ago this would have been dealt with properly and stoically, and without the technology we have today. But, having run a Ponzi immigration model for nearly 30 years and enabled the growth through ridiculous amounts of debt financing and corruption we’ve ended up with a fractured and unequal society – but equally selfish – full of citizens and immigrants who self-select into their own micro analogue and digital bubble community. This is not a cake we can un-bake. We’ve filled up the country with people to take jobs we didn’t want, to pump growth we didn’t need. And here we are. Trapped in a Victorian-era wintry and dying economy wholly reliant on students, immigration, tourists, construction and real estate, and a slew of non-essential services – all those folk desperate for their piece of the world’s most livable city. It’s almost all gone. There is no escape without elimination. Not quite a Warsaw ghetto moment, more like Hotel California meets Argentina. And who looks forward to wearing a mask when it’s 40 degrees? Who really thinks their job is safe? Who believes their roofed assets will maintain their ludicrous price? Who has debt they can’t escape from under, as this foetid pile of crud crashes down? Who wants to leave? When? We frogs are being boiled from cold.

        • drsmithyMEMBER

          30 years ago ? In 1990 ? You jest.

          60-70 years ago with WW2 still fresh in everyone’s minds, maybe.

    • billygoatMEMBER

      FMD Mick there are folk reading this blog whose grandparents were marched to their death or shot by soldiers on the street of their town. The BS ‘hospital and medical employees as frontline fighters in a war on Corona’ meme is nauseating at best up there with the ANZAC hero worship of men long dead in battles and war escapes they had little choice in joining – conscription and all that. Stop the non sense narrative

  6. happy valleyMEMBER

    The LNP manages everything better – just look at the superb outcome between the Fed and NSW LNPs with the Ruby Princess. Fabulous management showing us what teamwork is all about. Welcome to SFM’s Team Straya.

  7. reusachtigeMEMBER

    Elimination… LOLOLOL. You mean isolation. Good luck with that ya chicken sh1ts!

    I agree with the news article. It was tops.

  8. SoCalSurfCreeperMEMBER

    These lock downs might make sense if there was an end-game. Dictator Dan’s Victorian Shogunate.

  9. I don’t think elimination is possible from the endemic levels in Vic. But I am not at the pay grade to influence the decision.

    But HnH is right. If elimination wants to be even in the conversation, it MUST be articulated as an end goal. It isn’t something that will happen without raising a sweat like Wa/SA/NT etc in March/April. The level of collective unity required would be akin to a war effort.

    If it isn’t in the conversation and the final conclusion is a need to “live with the virus” then the lockdowns need serious questioning. They should be guided by hospital capacity and hospital capacity only if we are just living with it anyway. The last time hospital capacity was really an issue was Northern Italy/NY earlier in the year; both with a common denominator of having it for ages not knowing; that won’t happen now.
    Or at least give some idea when the restrictions will be relaxed. Merkel gives constant updates on what R number and level of cases in the population they see as appropriate to open up. This should be a realitvely simple civil courtesy; even criminals in jail get a length of sentence ffs. They’ll get civil unrest if they fail to follow this path.

    The whole Victorian situation right now is just woefully headless chook.

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      It is possible to eliminate it, the problem is the time it’ll take may not be politically acceptable.

      • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

        Exactly, and as numbers stabilised, the ponziteers coerced government to relax lockdowns and borders.

        No one should trust Morrison’s house prices party. Their end goal is supporting house prices. Why would young Australians comply with lockdown?

        This is the hopelessly fractured country we were always becoming.

      • Yeah the post wasn’t really meant to be about whether elimination was or wasn’t possible. The first sentence could have gone.
        More to the point that if the strategy is a) elimination or b) not elimination, the political messaging is an absolute dogs breakfast in any event.

        • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

          Agreed. The federal government’s goal is to reopen borders. Once again, we make all the sacrifice while elites take the gains. They can get fked.

    • The current restrictions should easily halve the number of new cases every week. So 6 weeks of these restrictions should reduce the new cases to less than 1.6% of the current level or less than 7 new cases per day or as few as it was in the last week of May.

      To think we have to go through all this crap again and worse just to get back to where we were at the end of May. It’s disgusting.

  10. TightwadMEMBER

    Kind of strange that the people hiding in their lounge rooms and peeping out from behind their net curtains are so hysterically abusive. I can assure you neither my father, nor my wife’s, who fought in WW2 did so to usher in a dictatorship where all our rights and freedoms are trashed. Never in the history of the world have 5 million people been incarcerated with OUR troops patrolling the streets over a virus that has killed 200 80 year olds.
    Get a grip on reality.

  11. Look the economy was up the shit well before this happened.This merely precipitated the downfall.The suicides depression etc were always going to occur
    We have come from a position of plenty and look where that has taken us.Look at the way we treat our future generations for instance.A bit of hardship will be good for us.May make us rethink our values
    It seems to have been forgotten here that one of the reasons for suppression is to protect the health care system from being overwhelmed.You know why as a nurse would you turn up when you run the risk of infection,get paid fuck all compared with tradesman,and have these clowns and all the conspiracy theorists just making things worse.About time we all had some respect for these people and other vulnerable people in our society

    • adelaide_economistMEMBER

      Agree with this. I’m not indifferent to the mental health implications of lockdowns but I know several (very young) people who killed themselves in recent years (pre-covid19) and in most cases I would say (as best as I can tell) there was a strong element of an economy that made life hard for them that played into that. Smart young people who studied, did all the ‘right’ things and just couldn’t get a foothold even in a basic job because this country would rather fly in someone who can’t speak English to work for 20% less. In some ways the generous dole and other handouts now are actually making life much easier for people who have been rejected from our increasingly broken system.

  12. +1

    Strange to me that this forum whinges constantly about the ponzi, then when a crisis comes along that provides a unique opportunity to change the status quo, the same people whinge about being locked down and suddenly take an interest in domestic violence rates that they didnt give a toss about six months ago.

    • migtronixMEMBER

      Wow. Actually a lot of people care about DV rates and many, including me, discuss the appalling situation where nearly every week some woman is murderer and sweet fa gets done about. We sure as hell don’t lock everyone. We sure as hell don’t go knocking on their door to make sure their ok.

      No. So im guessing it’s you who doesn’t care about murdered women and children – only oldies in danger of a communicable infection that does mostly nothing to most people.

      • i’m sure i’ve put more time working with homeless services and marginalized groups than you have. Maybe in 15ish years when youre closer to my age that might be different. I hope so.

        • migtronixMEMBER

          Do tell. Because you appear to zero interest in their plight now – Andrews has made homelessness a capital offense!

          • i’m not in the habit of posting my bio or payslip online to win an argument. you can dismiss my claims as you wish.

            I care about second and third order effects of this crisis. i put a priority on preventing unnecessary death and also dont want to return to the ponzi BAU

    • billygoatMEMBER

      Happy for housing and BS economy to crash & burn but see no reason for the lock up lock down mask wearing ritual that has gripped hoodwinked nation for a bat flu bug from choi nas nether regions:) Only best script writers on this narrative

  13. reusachtigeMEMBER

    I think it is Macrobusiness commenters lurching towards a civil war! Will Melburnians get there first. I hope so.

  14. Never mind Victoria, check out what’s happening in Adelaide: 70 quarantined and 1100 ordered into isolation after an “essential worker” returned from Victoria and infected his female “close friend” while supposedly in hotel quarantine. Sound familiar? The virus has won. Eradication in Australia is impossible. We’re all Swedish now, whether we acknowledge it or not.

    • BoomToBustMEMBER

      The only difference is we are going to bankrupt the state and many businesses before we accept this. We should have locked our water borders to all international traffic the instant this started to rear its head, but ScoMo, and I quote “we are open for business” caved in to the interests of the uni’s to ship in students. (Melbourne Uni has 4.5 BILLION in cash in the bank !!), how we have the virus AND closed borders.

      However once it was here we should have worked to support the most vulnerable and kept the country open and trading rather than changing the narrative from “flattening the curve” to elimination.

  15. Totes BeWokeMEMBER

    Medical unions should dictate where this goes.

    “Do it our way, or we strike”.

  16. Totes BeWokeMEMBER

    There’s a 20 second test that costs a dollar with reasonable accuracy.

    Testing everyone every day is a real option.

    Our governments are on full display as being hopelessly incompetent in any situation other than ponzi economics and self interest.

      • Totes BeWokeMEMBER

        If people are tested every day it wouldn’t matter.

        They’re not doing it because it’s a self test and they don’t get to collate the data.

        I was tested and the process was far more about data than getting a result to me, which took 4 days. 2 days after the others in the car with me. Primarily because they wanted to ask me 500 irrelevant questions.

  17. MountainGuinMEMBER

    Bit of a civil war here in MB too.
    As for my own view I prob look to national cabinet or Morrison to paint a picture for us. Make sure everyone is clear on the intent and goals so folks can plan accordingly. Everything is still short term and reactionary which is understandable to a point but there is now sufficient information and time to lead.

    • Arthur Schopenhauer

      “Open teh borders!”, is the picture. At the moment, it can’t be painted. That’s we stalwarts like Kemp are trotted out for comment.

    • “Everything is still short term and reactionary which is understandable to a point but there is now sufficient information and time to lead.”

      Absolutely, this is what I find so infuriating. ScoMo in the pressers in March was talking about needing to have a plan that lasts up to 6 months. Well, we are but a few short weeks away from September and it appears the plans are still changing all the time, jumping at shadows of case numbers.
      Sweden had a plan. New Zealand had a plan. They have their various pros and cons, but they are still plans that can be maintained over a reasonable timeframe.
      We have headless chook, jumping at shadows, Sweden in slow motion; extending the excruciating social and economic pain way more than necessary. I’d say it is time to choose from the options above. Not doing so is pure gutless.

      As a NSW resident it has dawned on me that if/when Sydney gets out of control and they follow the Dictator Dan route the prospect of Christmas in lockdown would loom. It is highly questionable whether the public would stomach this when our leaders have had since March to decide on a track.

  18. Interesting thread. I want the elimination strategy. NZ currently back to normal domestically. We can do it too with a proper uniform quarantine system. I’m in Sydney and while things are open here, it’s no bed of roses. Things are in no way back to normal. An elimination strategy imo will give people the confidence to get back to their normal lives.

  19. Jumping jack flash

    We need a lockdown so everyone can calm down and huddle inside from the virus menace, working from home and online panic buying, while the rest drive around in hermetically sealed vehicles and deliver said supplies.

    Victory!

  20. Arthur Schopenhauer

    Agree with you David. One of the frustrations in Victoria is how loony the Victorian Libs are. Dan’s Government’s failures are appalling, but there is no one in opposition that provides a rational alternative.
    My Melbourne based business is suffering along with my income, but I’m prepared to put up with it, and do whatever needs to be done to keep staff employed.
    On this island, elimination is possible. In a federation, state based opening (and closing) is possible. The liberal hacks, who have their parliamentary pensions, can fck themselves to hell and back if they think we’re going to put up with this shit for suppression. This mindset is shared by the majority of my friends and family.
    Fk every one of the Ponzi supporting shysters. Fk them all to hell, along with every University VC that wants to open teh borders.

    • Agree. We all acknowledge these was a F Up. Seems to me that our Vic Libs and MSM can’t or won’t moveo n. Agree that this needs to be dealt with this an equiry, now is not the time. It is done we are were we are and fixing itand dealing with it is the imprt. Somehow that doesnt seem to be getting across. I am more peeved at the media who ought to be driving enquiry more around what is happening now what is the data where is the transparency why are we doing things now. For eg, where is the media calling out the changes last minute in favour of union industries over small business (sole operators)? No where. ratherthey haggard Andrews on tthe qquarantine. A large measure of blame goes to the media.
      Post this I am sure Andrews will go but leave that for then. Who else? Tim idiot SMith – no thanks.
      Another eg, where is the media enquiring as to whether the fines are effective? Nada nothing. Pretty confident few if any paying and increasing fines from few hundred to thousands will not help this.

      I have made some FOI requests regarding payment / recovery etc. To date have not received info but if I am right (or wrong) happy to share once I get it.

  21. Arthur Schopenhauer

    Agree with you David. One of the frustrations in Victoria is how loony the Victorian Libs are. Dan’s Government’s failures are appalling, but there is no one in opposition that provides a rational alternative.
    My Melbourne based business is suffering along with my income, but I’m prepared to put up with it, and do whatever needs to be done to keep staff employed.
    On this island, elimination is possible. In a federation, state based opening (and closing) is possible. The liberal hacks, who have their parliamentary pensions, can fck themselves to hell and back if they think we’re going to put up with this shit for suppression. This mindset is shared by the majority of my friends and family.
    FCk every one of the Ponzi supporting shysters. Fck them all to hll, along with every University VC that wants to open teh borders.

  22. yeah so, you all need a bex and a lie down.

    I may be buying a house next week. So you can all get really, really fken short property because if you thought Gavin was the ultimate contrarian indicator for Property Always Go Boom, wait till you get a taste of the Black Swampy. It will be a black swan for the ages.

    • Hey Swampy, all the best with it mate.

      Am I on the right track? It has a 3 in it, possibly on a the main drag?

      • Good Sherlockery, Spunks. Not interested in it though. Take a look at the photos! FC cladding by the looks, AC sheets up high. I do admire how they’ve drilled/scribed air vents in the AC fascia! Kitchen looks to be sheeted with AC, and is a total renno/demo. Best open the wallet whomever buys that, yikes!

        Yep, looking 2 bath/3BR.

        • Yep, yep and yep. Looks like the current owner has done all the easy renos and looking to cash out while the getting is good. They have left all the tough stuff for some unsuspecting bugger or someone keen to sink plenty of blood, sweat, tears and dollars into it.

  23. So for years this site has pillared WA for wasting the boom. I always found this quite funny given the state still owned it’s ports, power lines, toll less roads, stadium ect ect…
    Tell me DL, where’s the nest egg that Victoria has put away as part of the immigration ponzi and its selling out to its Chinese and gambling lords?
    Let’s lance the boil and tell Victoria it’s time to finally govern itself properly.

    • MB has hammered Vic for years too – to summarise – a giant suckhole economy/society. No one, no lobby group and no jurisdiction is spared examination and criticism. The same target is often praised or criticised on the merit of the particular initiative, policy or comment. These bloggers are about as non-partisan as I have seen in any field of journalism – they call it as they see it. It’s why I’m here.

    • Arthur Schopenhauer

      Queensland was the same for many years. Remember Joh Bejelkie Petersen built the railway from Gladstone to the Bowen Basin, and then charged a flat per coal carriage charge at the port.
      Easy, effective taxation and a huge return on investment.

  24. I can’t believe all the assholes saying we can’t eradicate the virus, you’re weak as piss.

    -I moved to Brisbane last year on a promotion from Melbourne.
    -By May I was back in Melbourne due to the first opportunity that came before me
    -I fucken hate my job I’m in although I got one in a pandemic
    -I had to break a lease and had to play hardball
    -I am know stuck in Victoria with the virus running rampant and my former employer unable to Trade.

    All of this pain to a suppression strategy? Go fuck yourself I’ve endured more then most.

    • I agree. Anyone who thinks we can’t eliminate in Vic is a piss-weak 🐈.
      I’m not sure we will though. There are so many holes in this lockdown. And hospital staff are still being given negligently inadequate PPE. They are catching it in big numbers and taking it back out into the community.

  25. Wowee, some pretty upset peeps here today! 😡👿

    I’m just enjoying not reading Coming and DrX anymore. Very wise mod decision. 👍