60 Minutes ridicules Alan Tudge in Big Australia demolition

Watch Part One Here

Watch Part Two Here

60 Minutes last night did a great job analysing the ‘Big Australia’ debate, and certainly put the ABC’s recent biased investigations to shame.

The best excerpt is in Part One, when reporter Liam Bartlett wedged Immigration Minister Alan Tudge, who couldn’t even answer when asked how big Australia’s population should become:

Liam Bartlett: “How big do you want to see Australia”.

Alan Tudge: “I think Australia can grow. But it is the question on how we manage that growth”.

Liam Bartlett: “Yeah, but by how much?”

Alan Tudge: “That is the central question. It depends on the period of time you are looking as well”.

Liam Bartlett: “2051. Give me that figure?”

Alan Tudge: “So, it again depends on how well we can manage this growth, right”?

Liam Bartlett: “Yeah, but give me the figure”? Because the ABS said 25 million by 2051, but we hit that last year. So, give me that figure”.

Alan Tudge: “The ABS figure was based on looking at the past growth rate and projecting forward based on that growth rate”.

Liam Bartlett: “Yeah, and they got it wrong”.

Alan Tudge: “Depending on what our settings are will determine what ultimately our population will be in 2050. Undoubtedly we will be bigger”.

Of course, the reason why the population growth so badly overshot the ABS’ earlier predictions is because the federal government massively increased the migrant intake:

In Part Two, Liam Bartlett again takes Alan Tudge to the Woolshed:

Liam Bartlett: “So, when are we going to hit 30 million”?

Alan Tudge: “We outline a 10-year, for example, infrastructure pipeline”.

Liam Bartlett: “Great, so where are we in 10-years?”

Alan Tudge: “In part we’re going through a process”.

Liam Bartlett: “30 million? 35 million? 40 million? Stop me when I am getting close”

Amazing isn’t it? The federal government sets immigration policy. And yet the immigration minister can’t even answer the most simple of questions.

Well done 60 Minutes.

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Unconventional Economist
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  1. The best bit was the high rise developer who admitted to living in a detached house in the eastern suburbs.

      • Did you see the developer’s rhetorical sleight of hand?

        He reframes calls to reduce the rate of migration to cutting immigration to zero, which nobody has called for.

        He reframes concerns with increased congestion, strains on public services, infrastructure etc. as people being scared of migrants.

        A complete bullshit artist.

        His condescending lecturing of everybody else to get with the modern world and live in shitty, poor quality, fibre clad apartments while he lives a nice big house in the eastern suburbs is just the cherry on the garbage heap.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      I think the good Dr Shane has form on the pages of this very read-by-few blog. He’s been spruiking this rubbish forever.

      I liked the young couple. Even after their future has been stolen away they’re still having a crack. They’re worth more to this country than a thousand Dr Shane’s.

    • There is a better chance of meeting a platypus ordering a beer on Oxford street than finding a developer living in one of their high density sludge pits in the city/fringe.

  2. Yep well done, but no change to the immigration intake. The 160k to perm skilled is already baked in.
    Our local electorate got back in with his “stop the squeeze” campaign, however this was targeted at over-development, I emailed him on population growth last year, he had the decency to call me directly, at the time he said to look for Luke Foley on population, however this was before he stuck his arm up a chicks ###.
    Daley said it recently.
    Everyone gets it, but they ain’t doing anything about it.

    • Well, Menzies promoted back in the 1950s the politically brilliant but economically misguided middle-class individualism and home ownership. Policies over the years (like the CGT-free status of PPOR) ensured the massive misallocation of capital we see today. We should have changed course at the end of the Cold War but didn’t. Throw in the disastrous financial engineering of the 21st century that legitimized consumption beyond one’s means, and viola, we have Straya.

      Meanwhile, progressively greater fractions of assets (mines, farms and infrastructure such as ports, airports, toll roads, etc.) have been transferred to the hands of foreign creditors as AUD has been repeatedly devalued in an attempt to kick the can ever further down the road. These foreign creditors are no fools and know better than keeping the proceeds from the Strayan debtors in cash that is rapidly depreciating in value. Given the decades of accumulated CAD, the current status should come as a surprise to no one.

      Alas, selling off of assets comes with a price – selling off of sovereignty, bit by bit. Who could have known? Nowadays, Straya’s policy is not decided by the local electorates but in the foreign boardrooms of multinationals in which Straya has little to no voice. Those would-be pollies who aspire to be out of line will be duly reined in or replaced by others long before they reach the ballot box.

      So, no, the electable ones ain’t doing anything about it.

      • There is nothing wrong with owning your own home to live in.
        The problems we have today with massive amounts of money going into real estate and not productive investment is because massive immigration (root cause) has rocketed up housing prices causing financial hardship for new home buyers and large capital gains for those that bought property earlier.
        Labor’s negative gearing and capital gains reforms are addressing this .. though they are too late, but its a start.
        The royal commission has also reigned in the greedy banks mad lending criteria.
        However the root cause, immigration, still needs winding back to pre Howard levels, as a starting point
        The aim should be for a zero net overseas immigration program with the immigration focus on Europe.

      • The chronic CAD and selling-off of assets started long before the current 20-year-old bubble started inflating.

        Think about why, for example, Americans do not exempt PPOR from CGT or land tax.

      • dumpling – I’ve had a bit of a look at the capital gains tax on PPOR in the USA … so there is a capital gains tax, however there are generous concessions that apply if the property is held at least 1 year.

        “In the Internal Revenue Code is Section 121, which allows a capital gains exclusion of up to $250K ($500K if married filing a joint return) if the income is realized as a result of the taxpayer having sold his/her primary residence – the domicile in which one lives for the majority of the time.

        To be eligible for this exclusion, you must have lived in your primary residence for at least a two year period out of the previous five years prior to the sale of your home. In addition, you cannot have claimed the §121 exclusion in the preceding two year period. You may also exclude gains on a changeover, such as a house being condemned or otherwise destroyed
        If there is any remaining profit after the exclusion has been applied, it will be reported on Form 1099-S and shown on your US tax return.”
        “The capital gains tax rate for which you are liable will depend on your level of income. The capital gains tax rates for 2015 are as follows:
        Income of $0 – $9,225 to $37,449 – 0%
        Income of $37,450 – $413,199 – 15%
        Income of $414,200 and above – 20%”

        There have been some tax reform 2017 changes, but I think the gist of it is similar.
        Read the tax change on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States
        Regarding Australia’s CAD history … well I need to study that bit.

    • PassingInterest

      I have four investment properties rented to Chinese and Indian students seeking permanent residency; hopefully they will stay on or at least be replaced by new incoming students. I suspect the developments I bought into wouldn’t have stacked up without some confidence that immigration levels were going to be maintained at existing levels.

      I have three children being privately educated at $20k a throw, an expense which has been funded for the most part through accessing equity across our property portfolio.

      We upgrade the cars every 3-4 years, with the gap also being funded through equity. Same for overseas holidays.

      Most of my peers are no different. None would ever vote for a party proposing policies that threatened this status quo. Most Australian household wealth and consumption has been enabled by this. And it’s worked well for the most part.

      So of course We all know, and of course, no sane person would want to change it. There is too much to be lost, and to be gained … well, just what do we gain by stopping this exactly ? We just want the growth to be better managed. That is within our capabilities, that is where the votes are for the centre of this country. There are no meaningful votes in the long-term in appealing to the disaffected and racist malcontents.

      • PI, the current status quo has been created thru vote buying by favouring boomers. Why do vested interests squeal like stuck pigs when we try to go back to initial sound policy.

        It is your decision to commit to private education when gov. education will provide a good start in life. It is your problem, not mine to subsidize your social aspirations.

      • As always, negative externalities are ignored.
        An environment that is not being trashed, a national debt that is not going ballistic on the back of rising accommodation costs, a future for our kids that includes access to wilderness areas and doesn’t rely on desalinated water in the planet’s driest continent. A resilient social structure and an environment that will withstand exogenous shocks along with an innovative economy that is not reliant of lazy population growth to prop it up, but adds value to our dwindling, finite and non-renewable resources.

      • Looks like there are 3 meaningful votes. Must be disaffected and racist malcontents. Maybe they are just malcontented with paying your tax bills

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        Racist malcontent? Can’t pretend I’m not a little bit hurt by that. Why, I’ll have you know I can still call my blackfella mates blackfellas because they said it was okay. One even said I shoulda been born a blackfella because I get on with them so well. When you think about it though that probably makes him a racialist.

      • Impressive, burning $60k/year on privately educating your kids?! I presume they’re in secondary schools. Certainly Australian unis aren’t worth that much given that the value of their degrees drops with every full international fee paying Indian and Chinese “student” they accept. (Thought experiment: compare the value of a degree from US MIT vs Melbourne RMIT…)

        Once you’ve so expensively educated your kids, are you planning on employing them yourself? Because entry-level jobs are scarce and woefully underpaid given that international students (if they manage to graduate…) are willing to work for below Aussie citizen rates, and in many cases actually pay for fake work experience, to snag the real prize of Aussie PR.

        Case in point: A nearby software dev company is run by a middle-aged Caucasian Aussie assisted by a fetching young sheila in marketing, although personally I think she’s overdone it a bit with the botox. His programmers? Two Indians, a Chinese guy and a token young Aussie. Real Aussie innovation there! A nice little arbitrage on first/third world salaries, but probably not the next Google.

        Personally I’d dump the investment properties, stop blowing a fortune on brand name schools that employers don’t care about, and put your cash into ETFs so that your kids will actually have an income when they join the real world.

      • Mr SquiggleMEMBER

        ‘just what do we gain by stopping this exactly ?’

        How about a future for your children? I had an education that cost $20K per year, and I still can’t buy a home.

      • I note you aren’t a member. No surprise. I enjoy reading posts from the likes of you. Your selfish words and attitude only confirm what a parasite you and your like are. Me, me, me.

        I hope your kids end up with better grammar than you. Numerous errors.

        You probably just trolling though. Good effort.

      • What a disgusting human you are. I hope your kids are given no opportunity. I hope their kids have to work in salt mines.

        Have a good look at yourself mate.

      • Kind of wish your international student tenants wreck your places beyond repair (improper cooking practices, overcrowding) and insurance won’t cover it.

      • proofreadersMEMBER

        A strong contender to Dan Tehan for being out of his depth, but at least Dan’s family is smart enough to have around 6 IPs whereas Alan’s family seems to have at most 2?

      • Try Dan T families:) If he has the six houses plus a few families, perhaps he needs minister’s salary/allowances. Perhaps the B..tR..ter can give him advice.

  3. This was an interesting (and sad) story.


    “Pan had only been in Australia for seven months after being granted a temporary, four-year 457 work visa that allowed him to live in Colac and work at the local lamb slaughterhouse.”

    Is there really such a demand / shortage for slaugherhouse workers we need to offer 4 year 457 visas? I would have thought there were plenty of locals in Colac looking for work, but maybe I am wrong?

    On a side note:

    “According to VicRoads, foreign nationals on temporary visas can drive in Victoria without ever obtaining a Victorian driver’s licence.”

    That makes me nervous, but also explains some of the strange driving behaviour I see in Melbourne.

    • A separate DAMA for the Warrnambool region promises to deliver migrant workers for the meat-processing, dairy and other agricultural sectors.

      Dan Tehan, the Liberal MP for the local Wannon electorate, said the agreement addressed, “the risk that someone might come and do the job for six months then move to a capital city”.

      “What [migrants] would do is they would come in, fulfil the requirement — which would be three to four years working in the particular skilled-shortage area — then they would get on the pathway to
      permanent residency — not in all instances, but in some instances,” he said.

      • For some reason the labour contractors like to move the meat workers each 12 mths. Perhaps they start to contract unionitis 😀

    • Many Australian meatworks use 457s/ holiday visas. Korean/Taiwanese workers may be seen as good workers as they want to accumulate funds to pay for a (cheaper) tertiary education outside Australia.

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      A story I’ve told before.

      Meatworks in SE Qld get gubmint grant to expand because local 27% youth unemployment. Meatworks then only employ backpackers. Everyone wins except local kiddies.

      • It is a red octagon in China with 停 written in it. 停 means stop. All pretty much the same size and look. Didn’t understand should not be an excuse.

    • It Is sad! It also makes a good argument for closing loopholes & compulsory licensing & retesting every 5 years for all – best way to get everyone on the same page with any changes as well. We all make mistakes, but I think Jacob is right, Pan is trying to cop out of it with the unoriginal “me no understand”…..

    • Local driving licenses should be required for those on temporary visas (beyond tourist visas). If they can’t pass the test because of lack of sufficient English, too bad.

  4. The immigration minister was not authorized to provide a number in public without prior written permission from his masters.

      • Businesses love a gigantic Australia policy that will ensure robustly growing markets for coming years and decades. Many of the largest locally-listed businesses are already majority foreign owned so they cannot care less about local living standards. But they still need to be careful when it comes to putting gigantic numbers in public which might scare the locals.

  5. Time to put all libs and labor and greens last. ON and aust conservatives want to curtail immigration. Lk rta hope for a hung parliament

  6. Tudge and his treacherous government won’t give a number on Australia’s future population number because the temporary entrant program is the new ‘immigration program’. The temporary entrant numbers are uncapped, so the numbers could be anything, the government just needs to massage the temporary visa criteria a little whenever they wish to push the numbers up some more.
    To answer Liam’s question … there are no limits.

  7. Hats off to 60 Minutes!

    The globalists refuse to say how many people they want in Britain/Australia/USA.

    USA has a whopping 325 million people and the vested interests say “we need more skilled immigrants”!

    It never ends. Nations that do not speak English are allowed to have shrinking populations:

    * Japan
    * South Korea
    * Portugal (2001 to date)
    * Germany (1992 to 2011)

    These nations also destroy the argument that “wages will skyrocket if we have a stable population”.

  8. Shane Geha – just a little bit of self interest perhaps?

    It is positively scary that this fellow has been allowed to make money as the link between the private developer lobby and government policy.

    On the Bloomberg site it tells us that this fellow is a real estate agent and builder:

    “Shane Geha serves as Managing Director of EG Property Advisory at EG Property Group Pty Ltd. Mr. Geha was responsible for managing over $250 million in property development in Sydney and the Australian Capital Territory. He worked at Civil & Civic (Lend Lease). He is a holder of a builders’ license and a real estate agent’s license. His extensive urban planning experience, including over some of NSW’s most significant sites, led the University of Sydney to invite him …

    Hi LinkedIn profile tells us that he’s up to his neck in the ‘rezoning’ business:

    “His focus is working closely with clients on property uplift strategy and implementation and has worked on multiple rezoning projects including some of the largest land use changes in both size and value in Sydney and New South Wales.”


    It also tells us that Shane likes mixing with wealthy autocrats who make central planning decisions with no democratic process. Possibly he found his interactions with Lucy Turnbull very similar:

    “A press article in the Al Anwar Lebanese press covered the events including a visit to Dubai which included meeting HRH Sheikh Mohammad Ben Rashid AlMaktoum, the visionary ruler of Dubai and the world’s largest race horse owner.”

    Just about everything that is wrong with this entire corrupt business where government has teamed up with private interests to sell up our amenity and ship in buyers is encapsulated in the likes of Shane Geha.

  9. So many vested interests. Watch them squirm… the game is up. The people have seen what you are all about… juicing up demand via immigration to play to your vested agendas. If you need a big population to make transportation work, then please explain Singapore and Hong Kong. Don’t give me this land mass argument. For too long it has been profits first, people last.

  10. By 2027 Australia will have 25 million first drop to 24 million by 2023 than recover a bit
    By 2050 none can know, it maybe 50m if wwiii erupts or 10m if some virus mutates a bit

    • Not so long ago all the smart statisticians were extremely wrong about projections of 25m and nothing even happened in meanwhile. Imagine how much the current projection can be wrong if something big happens.
      Btw spanish flu was nothing extraordinary in epidemics terms (quite ordinary kind of flu virus) yet it killed 20% of population in some coutries (we still don’t have cure for viral infections )

  11. Jumping jack flash

    Yes it was a good segment. Very telling that the immigration minister knew nothing about what was going on. He seriously had no clue, and its not like 60 mins would have just popped into his office out of the blue. They would have arranged the time so he could have prepared.

    the bloke probably barely knows the current population of Australia. That’s something for “someone else” to know, some egghead somewhere. Probably a foreign STEM worker at the ABS.

  12. Sludge: “We outline a 10-year, for example, infrastructure pipeline”.
    What Sludge is saying is the LNP have a 10 year plan to provide infrastructure to an unknown population number. Dickhead.