Nationals kill carbon pricing

From the AFR:

Nationals Leader Warren Truss and deputy Barnaby Joyce are due to announce full details of a deal after Question Time on Tuesday, which sees major wins for the Nationals, including an about face on the effects test in competition legislation.

But Nationals sources have told the Financial Review that central to the agreement is a commitment to “no carbon tax, and no emissions trading scheme” for the life of his prime ministership. There is also a commitment that Mr Turnbull will take the already announced targets for emissions reduction to Paris climate change talks.

A dreadful start for PM Turnbull. He has just committed to wrecking the Budget via carbon mitigation. Carbon pricing is the only model for ensuring that polluters pay for carbon mitigation instead of tax-payers and as climate change negotiations accelerate that will become necessary.

Abbott lite ain’t going to cut it.

David Llewellyn-Smith
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  1. Josh MoorreesMEMBER

    I would have thought farmers would like the trading scheme since they can actually sell credits etc?

    The ALP must be breathing a sigh of relief that maybe they can still win the next election then.

    • Imagine farmers wanting to gain income from wind turbines, maintain their water levels for crops and stock by preventing open cut coal mining, maintaining water quality by challenging LNG extraction processes destroying the water, or a myriad of other progressive, constructive policies which will help them.

      Screw that champ – WE BLOODY VOTE NATIONAL – NO MATTER WHAT !!!

  2. Oh wow – whocouldanoode ?!

    it’s almost as if – we the policies, platforms, agendas, legislation and direction we are dealing with is a coalition made up of factions of some of the most conservative, regressive, anachronistic, archaic, throwback, ignoramuses, entirely captured by corporate interests, controlled by lobbyists and working entirely for their own vested self interests in all of modern western political history – and not JUST ONE PERSON APPOINTED BY THEM AS A SPOKES PERSON.

    Almost – because Cheney / Bush / Rice / Wolfowitz / Rumsfeld etc tied with them in a photo finish.

  3. Give him a chance.

    If you really think he’s not smart enough to outwit Truss (he’s so plain I don’t have a nickname for him) and Blustering Beetroot-faced Beergutted Bilious Barnaby then you’re misjudging him.

    Paris will be used as a wedge for action here.


    He is exposing the Nats for what they really are

    • Then he will lose them – and the LNP will lose power, and Turnbull is finished.

      This is a political party entirely captured by corporate / vested interests. I simply do not see a way for him to enact political action without massive political fall out. The ideas Malcom has simply can not be put forward by the LNP, not even tolerated.

      It is wishful thinking of middle of the road centrists who are HOPING and WISHING that Malcom will somehow simply impose his will on the party.

      Aint gonna happen folks – the loonies are waaay too many. They really are worse than the US Republicans who are in almost total disarray.

    • Bollocks! The Nats won’t ever be weaned off the Liberal Party teat, otherwise they will be relegated to obscurity. . If Libs, ALP and Greens go in on a unity ticket for a Carbon Price, it’ll get up with or without the Nats.

  4. arescarti42MEMBER

    Never say never with this kind of thing.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see an ETS adopted as policy going into the next election.

    • It beggars belief that farmers would not want climate change action of the most effective kind. They are so concerned about the price of their fossil fuel inputs that they are prepared to overlook, completely, the devastating effect that global warming will have on their businesses. I’m just gobsmacked 🙄

      • Josh MoorreesMEMBER

        You forget that it will be a problem for their kids or the chinese they sell the farm to not them.

      • I suggest you look up “photosynthesis” and “Carbon based life!”
        CO2 is good for growing stuff you know. Unlike climate pseudoscientist, farmers know the difference between fantasy and reality.

      • Robert, you are being idiotic.

        See, no one is against CO2, not the IPCC, not me, not the IMF who call for all nations to move as rapidly as possible to a $50/tonne revenue neutral carbon tax on fossil fuel waste dumping. The issue isn’t that it’s CO2. The issue is that it’s CO2 introduced from an external (fossil) reservoir at a human rate to a system that cannot get rid of it except on geological time scales.

        The dose makes the poison. Anything that sustains life can also poison it, in excess. Right now, we have so much excess CO2 it’s negatively affecting the hormones of plants, the nitrate emissions of soil microbes, and the stoichiometry of water life.

        Excess CO2 actually impedes growth. Did you know that?

      • Farmers are already doing it extremely tough. The recent surge in suicide and bank foreclosure seems to point that out very well. In a SMH article late today, it says “The reality is that, in concrete, measurable terms, there is actually extremely little Australia can do to reduce global carbon emissions. As far as CO2 concentrations go, if we went totally sustainable overnight, the atmosphere would barely notice.” If we added a carbon tax, it would only hurt our exports and make it more expensive than the competition. If they want to get serious with saving the Earth, a global effort needs to be achieved, starting with the 3 largest CO polluters on Earth… China, US and EU. Australia emits 23x less CO2 than China! And I dare say if we converted to nuclear, our footprint would be even smaller. The Greens don’t want nuclear, but want to be serious with saving the Earth/climate change. You can’t get everything your way sometimes.

      • now consider if this el nino event deepens. the last biggy in the early 90’s saw our wheat crop top out at 9mt nationally in 1994. Our usage last year domestically was 7mt say?. this current nino keeps deepening we will be looking at us being net importers in the next year

      • mbreader, Australia stands accused of undermining international efforts to reach agreement on CO2 emissions when we are one of the highest per capita emitters. We are also one of the wealthier nations and consequently, better positioned to respond. The SMH can say whatever it likes. The reality is it’s not just about what our emissions do to the atmosphere, it’s about us tacking responsibility for our actions and showing some leadership and maturity. You also seem to be missing the point that the world is doing something about this and that Australia is now the laggard.

      • Absolute Garbage R2M. C3 plants serverely growth limited under 800ppm, which is what farmers use in green houses. This is because they evolved at 10000ppm which is when much of the coal was was laid down in the carboniferous period! Increased CO2 reduce water stress because the air is so low in CO2 the plants have to keep their stomata open to get enough and loose water as a consequence. At 180ppm all life on Earth dies! We are in a severe CO2 drought for the last 20million years, prior to that the earth had 800ppm or more. CO2 is life, claiming otherwise is simply idiotic. The ideal concentration is 800ppm. Meanwhile actual rate of warming is three times smaller than predicted and that was mostly natural. There is not one shred of evidence of dangerous warming from CO2 of 2 deg C or greater.

  5. Thank God you’ve called it, MB.
    That’s 18 hours and 27 minutes – or thereabouts – since you first bought us news of our new PM and a brave new beginning filled with hope and unicorns.
    I’m not sure I could have endured another minute of Heathcliff’s honeymoon period.

  6. Most disappointing policy decision. But give Malcom a break. He is under huge pressure to quieten the feral barnyard. Politics is the art of the possible.

    Although I am predominantly left, I am going to give Malcolm a go to see if he can return civility and build a consensus for some more progressive policy.

    He is highly skillful, when he keeps his narcissism on a tight leash.

    • Correct. Give him time. What this country needs is leadership with a long-term, patient strategy, not some “radical” (in the eyes of the Right) change of direction in the first nineteen hours.

      His first priority is to bed down in the leadership, steady the ship, no surprises. He will overtly demonstrate to the Right that he is not the socialist bleeding heart that Bolt says he is.

    • How is it even possible for an ex-investment banker LNP member from moneyed Sydney to sell out?

      He’s not pretending to be Joe Strummer or something.

  7. Remember when Barack Obama became US President?
    People in some parts of the world had a new spring in their step and believed they had awoken to a “New Dawn” of politics.
    They even gave him a Nobel Peace Prize for f*#k sake (on the basis of???)

    Within a relatively short time, people realized that whatever his qualities or ambitions, he was constrained by the economic environment and the political process to a far greater degree than imagined.
    The feet of the idol turned to clay.

    I expect we will watch a similar scenario with Malcolm Turnbull unfold.
    54-44 votes in the party room is not exactly a thumping majority… he will need to watch his back.

    BTW on a different note, I expect Family First to do well out of all this.
    A lot of disaffected social conservatives are going to look at the National Party and realize it not for them. On the other hand Family First could very well set themselves on a similar trajectory to The Greens, from political fringe party to semi-major player in parliament.

    • Josh MoorreesMEMBER

      I can live with that, push the religious fringe out into their own party where they are far more transparent then mixed into one of the duopoly. With the changing attitudes in younger voters I wouldn’t see them lasting long.

    • Whats so constrained about obama climbing into bed with developers since day one – ???? – and then corporatist soon afterwards….

      Skippy…. the ev’bal republicans…. too funny…

    • Ultimately, at the end of the day, the POTUS is just a spokesman/puppet for his party. All the bank regulations he said he would impose did not eventuate. The POTUS surrounds his cabinet with Fortune 500 board members from Goldman Sach, Google, GE, etc. He works for the people, but moreso the lobbyists who spend billions putting his party on top.

  8. If Turnbull does not take a carbon pricing scheme to the election, not only would he have sold his soul, he would miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime. If Shorten agrees with a carbon price, it’s neutralized as an election issue. If Shorten goes against it, all the Green preference that used to flow ALP will flow LNP, and the ALP will be reduced to a football team.

    • all the Green preference that used to flow ALP will flow LNP

      Some. Definitely not all.
      There are a long list of things which the Greens and even an MT lead LNP do not see eye to eye about.

      Refugee treatment, metadata retention, free trade agreements, same sex marriage etc

  9. A semblance of thought, complete sentences and nothing to do with royalty is a major improvement, but have low expectations when he has to lead a party that is at its core not Liberal anymore.

  10. The Majority Of Australian know the CAGW is utter garbage and have repeatedly voted against it. How the hell do you people think Abbot got elected? CO2 mitigation comes with enormous cost for zero benefit. It delivers 2c in the dollar and keeps billions of poor people in energy poverty while destroying the industrial complex that brought us prosperity. The only people who benefit are the same vested interest neolib bankers and unelected UN technocrats that corrupted the worlds economy for their own gain. You know those same FWs that MB is always harping on about when it comes to our housing bubble and other ill’s yet somehow their shat don’t stank when they are claiming they are saving the world! I’m sure Al Gore was thinking about saving the world while becoming the first carbon trading billionaire. I’m sure Kevin, Juliar and Tim flip flop Flannery were concerned about the dire changes happening in the climate while purchasing beach side property! How can you folks not see the utter corruption in every aspect of the AGW scam!
    Are you actually fooled by the constant goalpost moving name changes, or are you just addicted to self righteousness?

    Do a cost benefit analysis for once!

  11. Let’s not turn this into another CO2 discussion. The Guardian has a piece on how the current Carbon laws can be tuned to allow carbon entitlement exchanges and tighten up allowances. This may not be the doom it looks like on the face of it. It won’t be an ETS in name, but could be in effect. Yes, I’m talking from a position of hope, not action on the ground, but let’s see this play out a bit further.

  12. I am sorry.. But is ETS really the magic bullet solution to climate change as it is made out to be? What makes you think it won’t be fixed and manipulated like Libor, Forex, housing, oil (Platts) and energy markets (Enron anyone?).

    I think the government managed Carbon tax is a better solution.

    • As long as we put a price on carbon. Time to stop allowing free use of the atmosphere as a CO2 sewer.