Weekend Links 20th – 21st June 2015




United Kingdom


United States


Backwards Land

Capital Markets


Global Macro

…and furthermore…

Global Warming & Nature

The last word

Dawe…’..because everyone knows Australians are very honest people, and very fair minded.’

Clarke …’I think the view of the international community, Brian, is that perhaps the jury is still being tampered with on that question’


Latest posts by __ADAM__ (see all)


  1. DE …You are a little wobbly on the Papal honorific . To clarify a few for you …

    Pope – Holiness
    Cardinal – Eminence
    Bishop – Lordship

    Further chat on the “encyclical matter” at CB’s MB thread from Thursday …


    Interestingly and embarrassingly … Kiwi Bishops quoted in Papal Encyclical … excerpt …


    95. The natural environment is a collective good, the patrimony of all humanity and the responsibility of everyone. If we make something our own, it is only to administer it for the good of all. If we do not, we burden our consciences with the weight of having denied the existence of others. That is why the New Zealand bishops asked what the commandment “Thou shall not kill” means when “twenty percent of the world’s population consumes resources at a rate that robs the poor nations and future generations of what they need to survive”.[78]

    • That insider trading Fed Leak story above. Consider that “As well as New York, Medley has offices in the political intelligence gathering of Washington, London, Tokyo, Seoul and Christchurch. Christchurch?! Now there’s one of the political intelligence gathering cities of the World. But if you surmise that the operative that runs Medley in Christchurch worked with now NZ Prime Minister (one of the 5 Eyes, as Australia is) back in the 80’s at Elders Finance, it gets even more interesting!

    • I’m getting pretty sick of seeing your “special pleading” posts, Pavletich. Doing some research into your organization, Demographia, it seems you are nothing more than a shill for fossil fuel-allied industries, such as tyre makers and other interests set to lose market share when serious measures are taken against climate change.

      Anyone who wants to know more about Hugh and his fellow traveler, Wendell Cox, should read:

      I’ll present more links later.

      Meanwhile, every time Hugh rails against the Pope or anything else concerning AGW by posting links to his favorite far right wing sites, like redstate.com, just take it all cum grano salis. 🙄

      • Hugh presents some interesting links at times and some diversity of views never hurt anyone. In fact, that is preferable to a hive mind (or circlejerk if you prefer that terminology) in the comments section. I don’t have a view on whether he’s a “shill” or not, nor do I know if he has some agenda. What I DO know, is that your ability to google his organisation was based on the fact that he uses his full real name (with a link to his blog). So even if he is pushing a line – and I’m not convinced one way or the other – at least we know who he is. We can’t say the same about you, Mr Mean.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Follow my links and find out.

        The arguments in that piece are not particularly convincing.

    • Revert2Mean … You certainly have a vivid imagination !

      That old article by a chuff chuff fanatic makes no mention of me whatsoever. I have no interest in trains and transport issues.

      Cox and I simply co-author the Demographia International Housing Affordability Survey http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf each year. There have been 11 to date. We do this work on a voluntary and independent basis.

      As I noted on CBs Thursday article thread (hyperlink above), you might like to ask the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference why they have had nothing to say about the serious housing issue this past decade. I am not impressed. Like the train lobby …just follow the taxpayer money trail !

      • I don’t doubt the church is the beneficiary of some very generous tax concessions here and abroad that should end Hugh. I also understand his church has a history that in many respects deserves condemnation. I just don’t see how your points address any of his remarks about AGW.

      • We do this work on a voluntary and independent basis.

        I suspect that is a lie, Hugh. 🙄


        Wendell Cox is the principal at Wendell Cox Consultancy and has worked as a consultant for a variety of corporate-funded and Koch Family Foundations-funded think tanks. These include the Heartland Institute, the Heritage Foundation, the Texas Public Policy Foundation, the Independent Institute, the Maryland Public Policy Institute, the Mackinac Institute, the Reason Public Policy Institute, the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, the Georgia Public Policy Institute, and the Cato Institute, among many others.

      • AlexD … to be clear I’m an AGW agnostic. What my concern is, is that the Pope has gone over the line with his “doomsday” involvement in the AGW issue. He is all over the place with economics as well.

        Sadly, I think this is going to backfire on the Catholic Church, already in serious decline and influence. There are very solid reasons why there must be separation of Church and State.

        Revert2Mean. The statement is correct. On my part since late 2004, I have put in in excess of 30,000 hours of voluntary time in to the housing / local government reform issues. To get a sense of it, check out my archival website http://www.PerformanceUrbanPlanning.org .

      • Pull the other leg, Hugh 😐

        It’s stage two of Cox’s argument that leaves you gasping – that since ‘burbs and freeways are what people like, Sydney (and everywhere else) should have more of them. Lots more.

        If you think Cox sounds like an apologist for the development lobby, you’d be right. His company, Demographia, is part-owned by the controversial New Zealand developer Hugh Pavletich, who, as well as co-authoring Cox’s high-profile “housing affordability” surveys, is known for his demolitions of listed heritage buildings, including one of NZ’s last bowstring truss rail bridges in 2002.


        The papers and radio stations today are full of a story about a report that blames councils for unaffordable housing in New Zealand. Apparently, “loony” councils are locking up land, thus reducing the supply and driving up prices beyond what the average New Zealander can afford.

        So who is it that cares so much about the affordability of housing? A poverty action group? A grass-roots movement of disenfranchised would-be homeowners? Not exactly: the study was carried out by Christchurch property developer Hugh Pavletich, in association with right-wing American think tank Demographia. Demographia’s Wendell Cox and his various organisations are well known for wrapping themselves “in a mantle of libertarianism to advance the interests of large corporations” (from Architecture Chicago Plus). They have always claimed that attempts to control urban sprawl drive up house prices as well as restricting the rights of “individuals” (read: developers and corporations) when in fact there is “plenty of land” available. See Sprawl Watch for information on these pro-sprawl advocates and a rebuttal of some of their common claims.


      • Revery2Mean .. You certainly are confusing yourself. Note at the bottom of Ms Farrellys SMH article …

        Wednesday’s article “Our dumb mantra: cars rule from the ‘burbs to breakfast” incorrectly said Wendell Cox’s company Demographia was part-owned by Hugh Pavletich. Mr Pavletich has no financial interest in Demographia.

        … and too (yawn) …

        The bowstring truss bridge was relocated to the theme park of Shantytown, Greymouth. It was not demolished.

      • R2M, very interesting. That pretty much confirms my suspicions. Got to hand it to them though, the way the developer lobby has controlled the housing debate has been highly effective propaganda genius.

      • Thanks for the correction, Hugh, but I think I’ve got your measure now. I hope others here have too.

      • Sweeper … it appears you have a fertile imagination as well.

        Over the past 25 years, since 1991, the time I was Prsident of the Property Council for the South Island, I have had massive battles with the protectionist / landbanker interests of the property industry in New Zealand and Australia. Indeed after near 4 years of President, they finally “excommunicated” me … after I got land supply opened in Christchurch so that house prices flat-lined through to 2002 …


        … and just another illustraton … when back in late 2007, I “got in” to the then Managing Director, Dr Ron Silberberg of the Housing Industry Association (HIA) in Australia, when they deliberately derailed the housing affordability issue in your country …


        I buried the protectionist b…….ds in New Zealand … but sadly, you guys are too windy and clueless in not being able to bury them politically in Australia. To use a Texan expression (ha ha) … you are all hat and no horse !

      • Developers develop. You know, build things – like houses and apartments – we all like to live in them. I’m see no problem nor conflict of interest. As for Hugh, Hugh’s posts are unerringly polite and respectful and that cannot be said of many that post here.

        As for Farrelly, seriously! ScaryBigCorporations. Ooooh. I’m so scared. What a load of juvenile nonsense. I bet each and everyone of you type your ‘contributions’ on product manufactured by ScaryBigCorporations. OMG, you probably drive vehicles built by ScaryBigCorporations. You might even use the financial services of more SBCs. Boo!

        More like BooHoo. A bunch of cry babies.

        FFS you lot are anti-everything. Oh, except of course your new found interest in transubstantiation, immaculate conception, Virgin birth, and the New Catechism of Climate Change.

        Lol. Been telling you for ages it was a religion!!

      • Sorry Skppy, I missed it, but now he’s started his BS on the pope, he’s in my crosshairs 😡

        Hugh Pavletich said:

        to be clear I’m an AGW agnostic

        But that’s just more lies from Hugh, who said elsewhere:

        It is now “showdown time” for those involved with climate research.

        Go spruik somewhere else, Hugh.

      • Onya Hugh, sounds like you have some runs on the board ( if you do say so yourself – not that there’s anything wrong with that, defending yourself). We all want “good” pollies, lawyers whatever then tar them with the same brush when it suits us and then wonder why they play the game in the style of their industry.
        Like Peter Fraser ( where is he?, haven’t seen a post since i said Reusa was his alter ego!) i look forward to insights from ” your ” industry. Like what’s involved, staffing, redtape etc, profit margins, how many players old and new, landbanking- average time holding, does this keep new players out etc.

      • Imagination… Haha truth is stranger than fiction.
        In all the acres of commentary on this site you’ve posted on housing I don’t think you have ever touched the ones which juice and induce speculative demand – and also lock in your industry’s profits rather than forcing you to operate in the context of an uncertain future (like the true risk takers who actually create wealth). When you post something that doesn’t completely confuse demand and derived demand for housing maybe I’ll take notice.
        3d, there is such a thing as the public interest. Unrestricted self interest is not called capitalism, it is called the Hobbesian state of nature.

      • 3d1k,

        Your plea to the emotive is noted but holds no water, faux politeness or feigned reasonableness is a tactic as old as the hills, especially when spread on so thick it just dripping. What only matters are facts, so far Hugh has not refuted R2M unpacking, only quibbles about optics.

        Skippy…. that you ride to his rescue blowing smoke and hand waving only increases the view that Hugh is a big con pushing a self serving agenda. IMO your run count of late is in the dumpster.

      • Revert2Mean … your 2.18 post above. Thank you so much for bringing my truly brilliant (ha ha) 2009 article THE CURSE OF POLITICALLY ENGINEERED RESEARCH to MB readers attention …


        I note within the article …

        “Whether one accepts to whatever degree or rejects the theory of the human influence on climate, is not the major question. The central question is whether or not the researchers involved have firstly, carried out this work to professionally acceptable standards, and secondly, whether the research they have done to date can be trusted.”

        It is certainly very relevant to the Papal Encyclical issue and the so called research underpinning it. I would urge MB readers to read it closely … and draw their own conclusions !

      • Hugh, you are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. Your 2009 commentary stated several incorrect things:

        * That climategate cast “serious doubt on climate research” (and despite the whole issue being shown to be a complete beat-up by no less than 8 separate independent investigations, you never withdrew this slur)

        * That “…the importance of Climategate ..cannot be overstated.” You never resiled from this erroneous statement, and apparently even now you fail to recant, despite the entire episode having been shown to be a false, criminally-inspired slur on climatologists

        * You then conflate research funding in general with climate research funding (a well known denier ploy)

        * You then falsely claim that “green initiatives”, such as “alternative energy schemes” are “counterproductive and in economic and social terms, destructive” (what planet are you on, Hugh?)

        and on and on it goes, complete and unadulterated bovine manure. 🙄

        Move aside, Hugh, we have bigger issues to discuss than your little get-rich-quick schemes! 😡

      • Now just imagine guys (as some of you are indeed blessed with such fertile imaginations) …

        If Prime Minister Tony Abbott had not “weakened” by falling in love with Kiwi Margaret Aitkin … and completed his training as a Jesuit priest … he could have been Pope today.

        Just imagine what the Papal Encyclical on Climate Change would have been like then !

        Tony Abbott – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


        … excerpt …

        Following his departure from the seminary, Abbott met and married Margaret “Margie” Aitken, a New Zealander working in Sydney.[41] The couple have three daughters: Louise, Bridget and Frances.[23][42]

      • Hugh what does abbot have to do with anything, your going off on some strange tangent that has noting to do with above.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        “Whether one accepts to whatever degree or rejects the theory of the human influence on climate, is not the major question. The central question is whether or not the researchers involved have firstly, carried out this work to professionally acceptable standards, and secondly, whether the research they have done to date can be trusted.”

        And in the complete lack of any evidence to the contrary, and given the consensus with their work across the scientific community, the only rational conclusion to this question is “yes” (unless you want to try and pass off opinion as fact which, lo and behold, you proceed to do).

        You have some evidence to support your ideas in land prices, and that’s good because it contributes usefully to the discussion. But you have none in climate science, and should refrain from trying to present opinion as fact in thie field, because it detracts from any argument you make about the former.

      • Drsmithy … Thank you for your comments above. They are much appreciated.

        In my view, it is desirable to have an open discussion on these issues, so the politics involved are better understood.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        What evidence on land prices?

        I’m not sure I can add anything more than the last 3-4 years worth of MB articles on the topic, which have got to be well into the dozens, if not hundreds.

      • Smithy, I’m a bit surprised that you side with the developer lobby on this. Like I said before, their propaganda linking housing affordability to restrictive planning on the fringe has been brilliant.
        Restrictive planning is not responsible for the housing problem. Deliberate policies which shelter the asset (as opposed to the provision of housing services – which Pavletich continues to deliberately confuse) from the tax and welfare system and therefore juice investment demand are responsible. They are also the same policies, which lock in an inflated PV of rents / developers profits so that the developers don’t have to face the greatest risk of development (uncertainty on future values). Which is why Pavletich never mention the policies which juice investor demand.
        You can look at the data which confirm this. In particular rent/income, falling returns on land and Quiggins brilliant observation that the price gradient hasn’t flattened. Or you can look at the people in Pavletich’s corner and his track record with evidence on other topics and make a judgement.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Smithy, I’m a bit surprised that you side with the developer lobby on this.

        I don’t. I’m pretty sure Hugh is a “build whatever the hell you want wherever the hell you want” kinda guy, which I don’t agree with at all. Plus, like Phil Best, there’s his views on other things that throw everything he concludes into doubt.

        To be clear, I “side” – which is to say I have been convinced by the reasoning and evidence presented – with Leith, et al, who have quite comprehensively demonstrated the massive run up in property prices across the entire country is pretty much entirely in the land component. Not with “developers”.

        Likewise, I agree that there are tax incentives that juice the problem even more.

        Rents are high, vacancy rates are very low, so clearly there isn’t enough rental stock on the market.

        As I posted in the other thread, I do not understand Quiggins’ statement (I can’t say reasoning, since he doesn’t present any, just a fait accompli) that the price gradient should flatten. I had a look on his blog as well, which I read fairly regularly, and couldn’t see any argument or evidence there, either.

        I’m open to being convinced of anything with a rational and logical argument, evidence, and a moral position. Thus far the people making the claim that it’s artificially constrained supply of land, have done a better job.

      • Rage, thanks for the link
        Re. LVT I doubt Hugh will give you a legit answer. Putting myself into the mind of a developer though; my answer would be; because it’s a tax on my inventory which adds to my holding costs. Secondly, Joe six pack should have to pay all the costs that my unnecessary development creates – pollution, transport, law enforcement etc. thirdly, government is evil.

    • The International Coal Contingent responds to the Pope’s Encyclical

      The long arm of the coal industry shaped reactions across the world. In Poland, a largely Catholic nation that is also dependent on the coal industry for jobs and power, one newspaper called the encyclical anti-Polish. “The new encyclical is already being interpreted as an ‘anti-coal’ document,” conservative newspaper Rzeczpospolita wrote “In the Vatican one can also hear voices that this encyclical is ‘anti-Polish’.”

      Polish Parliamentarian Andrzej Jaworski told Yahoo! News that “the Polish energy sector not only should, but must be based on coal. We can’t turn our backs on coal production, building coal mines, or building coal power plants.”

      Gerard Henderson, an Australian climate denier, told the Australian Broadcast Company that the encyclical was written because the pope has writers. “There’s a kind of encyclical writing group, they gotta write something, so this is what they’re writing,” Henderson said.

      Coming from another coal-dependent nation, Henderson took issue with the encyclical’s content as well. “If you’re an Australian, it’s not good news,” he said. “I mean, the Pope seems to think we should get rid of coal, we should downplay gas… he thinks that our standard of living should decline.”

      More : http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/06/19/3671144/the-pope-freaks-out-climate-deniers/

      • Pope Francis Embraces Green Theology to Demonize the Modern World – Spiked / Reason.com


        By Brendan O’Neill, Editor of Spiked, London …

        Pope Francis’s eco-encyclical, issued to great fanfare this week, might be hyperbolic, anti-progress, and seemingly keen to bring the hotness of hell up to Earth. (How else do we explain its mad aside against air-conditioning, which the pontiff brands as one of humanity’s “harmful habits”? Clearly he wants to heat us up in preparation for our eternal frying for all the eco-sins we’ve committed.) But we should nonetheless be grateful that, for all its dottiness, this humanity-lecturing letter has been published. For it shows in black and white—and green—what a colossal amount in common there is between environmentalism and Catholicism. … read more via hyperlink above …

        Lowry: Pope Francis goes off the rails … Salt Lake Tribune


      • Sadly … it seems to me the Catholic Church is now in very serious trouble indeed.

        It appears Pope Francis has seriously misjudged the significance of the internet as a vehicle for the transmission of quality information … and the global trends to more conservative values …

        The shift to conservative values … with the young too … | Scoop News


        This is particularly sad for me, having been raised in the Catholic faith. Off to boarding school at the age of 5 and privileged to have experienced the wonderful education of the Dominican Nuns, Christian Brothers and Marist Fathers. I owe these truly good and dedicated people so much.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        It appears Pope Francis has seriously misjudged the significance of the internet as a vehicle for the transmission of quality information … and the global trends to more conservative values …

        The world’s been shifting towards superstitious, authoritarian, conservative values, and away from enlightenment thinking, democratic and progressive values for thirty – nearly forty – years. That’s why it’s in so much trouble.

        Spending all your time in far-right-wing echo chambers like the Telegraph is part of the problem.

      • Hugh, you are now so far down the hole you’re digging that I have to use a megaphone to reach you. 😯

        Your ill-advised and wrong-headed opinions on scientific subjects calls into question all your views on the property market. After all, if you can be so hopelessly wrong on one issue, so lacking in judgement, then who can trust what you have to say on any issue ❓

        For a start, your sources are highly suspect, as Dr Smithy says. You link to an article at Reason.com, which is an anti-intellectual “libertarian” sewer, currently publishing articles as odious as:

        Pope Francis Really Hates Modern Technology and Economic Progress (sure, and he turns into a vampire at night!)
        The Trans Fat Ban Is Worse Than You Think (in other words, government is intruding in our diet, so what next will they ban?)
        The Left’s Bad Ideas About Science Are More Harmful Than the Right’s (as if!)
        Magna Carta: A Libertarian Document? (Pfft! Talk about overreach!)
        Rand Paul: Mass Shootings Symbolize a ‘Sickness’ That Can’t Be Fixed by More Government (in other words, please don’t enact gun control)
        Water Market Best Hope to Ease California Drought (but please don’t tackle the climate change causing the drought)

        It appears Pope Francis has seriously misjudged the significance of the internet as a vehicle for the transmission of quality information

        The Pope, who is scientifically trained, gets his climate science information from climate scientists, not the Internet! Do some research on this topic, Hugh, stop being a lazy dolt 😡

        How else do we explain its mad aside against air-conditioning, which the pontiff brands as one of humanity’s “harmful habits”

        Air conditioning is one of the biggest consumers of coal-generated electricity on the planet. The Guardian estimates a/c uses at least one trillion kilowatt-hours of electricity annually, and it’s getting worse every year.

        it seems to me the Catholic Church is now in very serious trouble indeed.

        On the contrary, I think this may lead to a renaissance in the Catholic Church. As time proves the Pope’s stance increasingly correct, his stature will grow. I am not a Catholic, indeed not religious, but I am also a Marist Brothers graduate and I am pleased to see this new Pope modernizing the sclerotic institution of the Church.

        Major fail, Hugh 🙄

      • “I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.” – George Bernard Shaw

      • Revert2Mean … Indeed Shaw ( not surprisingly like the rest of the naïve British socialist intelligentsia ) didn’t fight with them … he slept with them …

        How Shaw defended Stalin’s mass killings – Telegraph


        … concluding …

        … Shaw argued that what he called “this Russian trial” had been exaggerated and he rejected suggestions that the accused had only pleaded guilty because they had been drugged or tortured.

        At least 720,000 people were executed in the terror that followed. Millions more died from hunger and ill-treatment in concentration camps.

        … and shudder watching this …


      • Hugh, I can either view your post above as a handwaving attempt at obfuscation and distraction, or as an attempt to concede the argument gracefully.

        I’ll choose to see it as the latter. Good day to you.

      • WOW….Hugh your a special kinda paranoid…. we’ve gone from demographica being a front for political advocacy groups spun out of think tanks like Heritage,Cato and ALEC to Stalin.

        Skippy… Personally I think the two share a lot in common, ridged hierarchical vertical authority command structures w/ the only difference being the implements of choice in torture applied to the commons, tho your stripe does share the same propensity for prisons.

  2. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/bill-shorten-tells-labor-power-brokers-to-prepare-for-an-early-election-and-vows-to-fight-tony-abbott-on-industrial-relations-20150619-ghsgbm.html

    Without a credible boat policy Big Australia Shorten’s Labor have zero chance of election. Richard Marles has already said they’d reopen borders. WTF is wrong with these clowns? They were sacked because of it and we now have LNP because of it and will have again.

    Here’s how it will unfold for brain dead Labor.

    LNP will say nothing. Then three weeks before the election, LNP will bring out boat footage. We get LNP for another term.

    With a massive majority, LNP then reduce foreign aid further, reduce refugee intake, bring in workchoices, cut all welfare. Good strategy Labor, fucking idiots.

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      It’s because the ALP is afraid of leaking votes to the Green more than they want to win elections. Shorten still thinks he has it in the bag..

    • Without a credible boat policy Big Australia Shorten’s Labor have zero chance of election.
      Rich you seem obsessed with this LNP wedge issue.

      • Rich, a wedge issue is an issue used to divide the voting block of a political opponent. The misleading way this issue has been presented has been effective at fracturing labor’s base (hence “wedge”). You spend an inordinate amount of time here banging on about it which suggests you have few clues about how you’re being manipulated.

  3. Mr Shorten will be hard to get rid of, he is the United States’s perfect Manchurian Candidate for Australia.

    • Labor cannot win with Big Australia Shorten as leader.

      I’d bet anything he’s not going to be our PM. I’ll run naked around Sydney to Mascot and get the first flight out of this crazy country if that happens.

      Hasn’t Australia tired of this BS? Vote for new parties. Get rid of these clowns LNP and Labor. They are killing us.

      ….”With Labor and the Coalition locked in what Di Natale calls “a hyperpartisan death spiral”…….”a hyperpartisan death spiral”. I love it. If Greens come up with a real border policy, they could get a lot of votes. Without it? Forget it. Believe me or knock me drsmithy etal. I don’t care. Greens and Labor will have a fraction of the votes they could otherwise have (and we’ll get a far stronger more destructive LNP) unless they solidly address this issue.

      This mob for example: http://affordable-housing-party.org/


      • drsmithyMEMBER

        If Greens come up with a real border policy, they could get a lot of votes.

        No they couldn’t. Because nobody who votes Liberal will ever vote Greens, and if they adopt your preferred immigration policy (“fuck off, we’re full”), everyone who current votes Green will go somewhere else.

        That is the same mistake Labor made (trying to win right-wing voters off the Coalition), and the reason they are a dying party.

      • LNP immigration policy is not “fuck off, we’re full”
        It’s more in the line of: “we’ll let you in only if you are full of dirty money”

      • @doctorx. Exactly. All three main parties need to refocus on existing Australians. All population growth is bad. If they’re poor they cost us money if they’re rich they out compete us. Fuck population growth. I don’t care who they’re made up of. Had a mate that tried to tell me I’ve got some kind of mental illness when it comes to population growth. He said it’s been great for him. He owns five houses and has a massive share portfolio.

        How did we end up like this?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Socialists brains don’t work properly.

        The amount of irony in this statement would probably kill most people.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        LNP immigration policy is not “fuck off, we’re full”

        I didn’t say it was LNP policy, I said it was rich’s preferred policy.

      • @drsmithy. Irony?

        It’s been proven. Socialists miss most consequences of their thought processes. Fucking own it mate. Don’t try and tell me I’m missing something and don’t get it. Socialists think with their emotions leaving most logic aside that pretty much always ends up causing more harm than good. I could write a list a metre long You people should be kept as far away from power as possible.

      • Yeah we are full. Why would we want more people?

        Double Australia’s population with 3 months global growth is just dumb. We’ve been through this. Socialists want to fix everything with their emotions and will destroy Australia doing it.

        I never hear any do gooders talking about population when discussing global issues. It’s the core cause. That’s Socialists for you. Not so bright.

      • “No they couldn’t. Because nobody who votes Liberal will ever vote Greens”.

        BS. There’s millions who want someone other than LNP and Labor to vote for but dont know how to do it. Every person I know has had a gutful of our disgraceful politicians.

        They want a party that looks after Australians and stops population growth. The times I’ve heard people say they’d vote for Greens if they weren’t so radical. What happened to the Greens that looked after the environment? It’s now full of gay feminist activists. It’s time for me to move on and maybe attack Labor for their corporate attachments that stop them driving down population growth. Don’t worry idiot Greens will still cop it. Socialist nutters.

        For 10000 individuals Greens have destroyed their brand and don’t get to do any good. Well thought out? Socialist brains can’t do that.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        It’s been proven.

        You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

        I could write a list a metre long You people should be kept as far away from power as possible.

        Presumably like most of the other lists you write it will bear little resemblance to reality.

        Double Australia’s population with 3 months global growth is just dumb.

        Who is suggesting we should ?

        We’ve been through this.

        Indeed. You were wrong then, and look to still be now.

        Socialists want to fix everything with their emotions and will destroy Australia doing it.

        This is so arse about face it’s not even funny. Scary brown refugee terrorists are going to start suicide bombing us and a handful of poor drug addicts on the dole are ruining the economy but it’s the “Socialists” thinking with their emotions ?

        I never hear any do gooders talking about population when discussing global issues.

        That’s because you’re eagerly, enthusiastically, gleefully, willfully ignorant.

        They want a party that looks after Australians and stops population growth.

        No they don’t. ~75% of the voting public only ever votes Liberals or Labor. They’ve had the opportunity to not vote for two parties that barely have daylight between them on most policy issues (including immigration) for 10+ years, and haven’t.

        The times I’ve heard people say they’d vote for Greens if they weren’t so radical.

        Is miniscule. And I’d lay down a thousand dollars in a second betting none of those people had any meaningful knowledge of the Greens actual policy platform. Much like you.

        For about the tenth time, here is the Greens policy platform. Please identify the “radical” issues.

      • @drsmithy. For the tenth time it doesn’t reflect their actions. How can you defend that?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        For the tenth time it doesn’t reflect their actions. How can you defend that?

        What you think they’re doing, and what they are doing, are most likely worlds apart.

        But let’s humour it. What “radical” actions are they taking ?

    • Ha-ha. Dee why is affordable. Median house hold income is $70000. Most 2br units are 600-700k. You don’t even want to know what the run down shacks that pass for houses go for. So ten times income send to be their idea of the split between affordability. Madness.

    • The Australian in general is a quality newspaper; it reflects Australians’ qualities of intellectual honesty, and its reporting is always honest and accurate.

      It definitely runs at a profit and is definitely not a vehicle for controlling the government and pushing Rupert’s agenda.

  4. The Mayan couple had finally saved enough beads for a small hut a stones throw from the temple. It was built in the middle of a laneway and would be a thoroughway most of the day. ” but we’ll be out in the fields all day” he said. They had to give their firstborn to the gods of bureaucracy, ” we don’t really have room for three” he said
    And all was peaceful on their first night, ” where’s that strange coughing sound coming from” she said.

  5. GunnamattaMEMBER

    A pretty interesting discussion between Ben Aris and Liam Halligan on events in Greece and St Petersburg (Russia) from BNE.

    Liam maps out quite succinctly what happens with Greek non-payment, and notes the importance of what they owe the IMF versus the ECB. Ben note the Tsipras presence in St Petersburg and speaks about the underlying resilience of the Russian economy.


    • You will notice I’m sure that as Warren B has been over here seeking out distressed assets. VVP is keeping a close eye on Greece. Any liaison with Russia will make interesting politics.WW

  6. The Squirrel and The Grasshopper (REST OF THE WORLD VERSION )
    The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building and improving his house and laying up supplies for the winter.
    The grasshopper thinks he’s a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
    Come winter, the squirrel is warm and well fed. The shivering grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

    The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.
    The grasshopper thinks he’s a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
    Come winter, the squirrel is warm and well fed.
    A social worker finds the shivering grasshopper, calls a press conference and demands to know why the squirrel should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others less fortunate, like the grasshopper, are cold and starving.
    The ABC shows up to provide live coverage of the shivering grasshopper; with cuts to a video of the squirrel in his comfortable warm home with a table laden with food.
    The Australian press informs people that they should be ashamed that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so while others have plenty.
    The Labour Party, Greenpeace, The Greens, Animal Rights and The Grasshopper Housing Commission of Australia demonstrate in front of the squirrel’s house.
    The ABC, interrupting a cultural festival special from St Kilda with breaking news, broadcasts a multi cultural choir singing ‘We Shall Overcome’.
    Bill Shorten rants in an interview with Laurie Oakes that the squirrel got rich off the backs of grasshoppers, and calls for an immediate tax hike on the squirrel to make him pay his ‘fair share’ and In response to pressure from the media, the Government drafts the Economic Equity and Grasshopper Anti Discrimination Act, retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The squirrel’s taxes are reassessed. He is taken to court and fined for failing to hire grasshoppers as builders,for the work he was doing on his home, and an additional fine for contempt when he told the court the grasshopper did not want to work.
    The grasshopper is provided with a Housing Commission house, financial aid to furnish it and an account with a local taxi firm to ensure he can be socially mobile. The squirrel’s food is seized and re-distributed to the more needy members of society – in this case the grasshopper.
    Without enough money to buy more food, to pay the fine and his newly imposed retroactive taxes, the squirrel has to downsize and start building a new home.
    The local authority takes over his old home and utilises it as a temporary home for asylum seeking cats who had hijacked a plane to get to Australia as they had to share their country of origin with mice.
    On arrival they tried to blow up the airport because of Australians’ apparent love of dogs.
    The cats had been arrested for the international offence of hijacking and attempted bombing but were immediately released because the police fed them pilchards instead of salmon whilst in custody.
    Initial moves to make them return to their own country were abandoned because it was feared they would face death by the mice.
    The cats devise and start a scam to obtain money from people’s credit cards.

    A 60 Minutes special shows the grasshopper finishing up the last of the squirrel’s food, though spring is still months away, while the Housing Commission house he is in, crumbles around him because he hasn’t bothered to maintain it. He is shown to be taking drugs.
    Inadequate government funding is blamed for the grasshopper’s drug ‘Illness’.
    The cats seek recompense in the Australian courts for their treatment since arrival in Australia.
    The grasshopper gets arrested for stabbing an old dog during a burglary to get money for his drugs habit. He is imprisoned but released immediately because he has been in custody for a few weeks. He is placed in the care of the probation service to monitor and supervise him.
    Within a few weeks he has killed a guinea pig in a botched robbery.
    A commission of enquiry, that will eventually cost $10 million and state the obvious, is set up.
    Additional money is put into funding a drug rehabilitation scheme for grasshoppers.
    Legal aid for lawyers representing asylum seekers is increased.
    The asylum seeking cats are praised by the government for enriching Australia’s multicultural diversity and dogs are criticised by the government for failing to befriend the cats.
    The grasshopper dies of a drug overdose.
    The usual sections of the press blame it on the obvious failure of government to address the root causes of despair arising from social inequity and his traumatic experience of prison.Â
    They call for the resignation of a minister.Â

    The cats are paid $1 million each because their rights were infringed when the government failed to inform them there were mice in Australia.
    The squirrel, the dogs and the victims of the hijacking, the bombing, the burglaries and robberies have to pay an additional percentage on their credit cards to cover losses, their taxes are increased to pay for law and order, and they are told that they will have to work beyond 65 because of a shortfall in government funds.
    This then, pretty much sums up what’s happening in Australia today, Lucky country?

    • WW, so hang on, was the squirrels table hand made, Australian made or imported?.

      I bought an aus made sofa pair the other day, marked down from 4 k to a grand ( off the floor), good to see our retailers are happy to not slug us too much markup in order to help Aussie manufacturing!.

      • Remember Fler and other true-blue Strayan furniture manufacturers of years gone by? Well, wander through one of our well-known department stores (starts with D – no, not Dimmey’s or DJs) and you will see Fler look-alikes going for a cool 3-4 grand. Hooray! Whatever is old is new again! Except for the price and country of manufacture of course. Guess where ? You got it!

      • Are you really sure that the sofa pair was made in Oz? Wriggle underneath and check for the manufacturing label if you haven’t done so already. You might be in for a surprise.

      • Lounge Innovation, WA ,even come up on the Aus Made website, it wasn’t till later i realised if all floorstock was being sold at cost ( the HN guy was keen to show me this was the case -paperwork- on the imported suite down by a quarter) then the markup on the Aussie stuff was extreme!.

        I’m always amazed when i look in appliance catalogues that the Aussie made cookers ( Westinghouse, Simpson, chef) either don’t get a mention or are near the back, especially in Adelaide where employees with wages are who they want to come into their stores.

    • WHy do I think you confused Squirrel and the Grasshopper in the very premise?

      Did you know that whilst Grasshopper used his credit card to stock-up for the whole winter, hardly anything was left for a prudential squirrel to collect?
      Grasshopper ended up with seized food (by the debt collectors) much before the end of the winter and squirrel’s humble food stock was seized by the government to feed dying grasshoppers…
      Thereafter your story continues…

    • drsmithyMEMBER


      The squirrel obviously represents the working classes.
      The grasshopper obviously represents the wealthy and upper middle classes.
      “Social worker” is presumably some sort of ironic euphamism for the Liberal Party.

      After that we seem to be getting into Libertarian Opposites world, so…

      “The ABC” must be Sky News.
      The Labor Party, Greenpeace, Greens, must be the Young Liberals and other collections of silver-spoon toffs barely out of their teens.
      Bill Shorten is really Tony Abbot, and Laurie Oaks must be Alan Jones.
      A “Housing Commission House” must be a reference to Negative Gearing. Presumably making the Housing Commission the ATO.

      Then back to analogies…

      The cats are foreign capital and the airport is the AUD. The mice are local industry.
      60 Minutes is the current Parliament ?
      The grasshopper’s “drug” must be profit, which probably makes the old dog labour (makes sense since it’s the dogs being criticised for not befriending the cats).
      I suppose “Social Inequity” is progressive taxation and prison – in a surprisingly literal change – must be a reference to tax and labour laws.

      The only thing missing is some reference to “free trade” agreements, otherwise it’s great !

    • Very enjoyable WW
      Did read on King World News that Squirrel bought physical gold through his super fund and is enjoying early retirement…

      • This exact Tory screed was posted in the early 2000s on numerous sites. Google it.


      • R2M, I was about to Google it before reading your post, as it read like one of those right wing fantasy pieces, likely American in origin, quickly rejigged for Australia. And you are correct, just googling the title shows it’s been around for at least a decade.

      • It’s utter rot. The group least culpable for Australia’s broken political economy are the poor. Was it the poor who trashed all the trade exposed sectors? Was iit the poor who twisted the tax system to give us a houses and holes economy?

        More right wing claptrap written by the beneficiaries of all wealth created in the last decade, who somehow think they’re being robbed.

        Total fail. Please try harder.

  7. I’m not sure that anyone picked up on this CEDA report

    Australia’s Future Workforce…..lots of verbs…lots of nouns…lots of ideas…lots of motherhood statements….lots of wishful thinking …actions (none I can find)….actionable plans (does planning to make a plan count?)
    Hmmm can’t fault them for raising the issues, but it does seem like a pointless exercise if there’s no political will, no societal understanding and no implementation framework.

    • CB I downloaded the pdf.

      Based on the image at the top, I think they are suggesting that in the future young people may find employment as 100K resistors.

      • Nah mate there is diversity there, look at the Ceramic caps and I believe I saw one printed Inductor, plenty of “jobs” for all manner of Aussie components. but as you say the real jobs growth picture does appear to be extremely positive for 0625 and 0835 surface mount components.

    • “Australia’s economy is highly dynamic, with many businesses entering and exiting the marketplace, and large numbers of workers changing jobs, industries and professions. The consequence is a highly productive economy with a large capacity to absorb change.”

      See … no worries. Once you get the elites explaining stuff, it’s all good.

      • hmmm seems to me those same facts
        highly dynamic, with many businesses entering and exiting the marketplace, and large numbers of workers changing jobs…
        can be interpreted as a work force with very low intrinsic “value add” that’s desperately searching for sustainable differentiation, but as you say, thank goodness we have the elites to deliver the correct interpretations…..you wouldn’t want to get this sort of future looking thingy wrong…ahh I can see paradise by the dash board lights.

    • CB 100% agree on that report
      Useful article from Professor Steven Callander, on innovation worth reading. The Broncos got a mention
      Fresh water will be scarce by 2030 (there is opportunities there). and the car manufactures should be making wind turbines! Cop that Abbott. We all know the challenges, but my call is the future lies in innovation, And as was also stated 10 of us have to carry 4, but I can tell you the 6 who are bringing in the moolah are getting sick of the waste of the 4.WW

      • definitely the stand out chapter
        I like the following
        – in particular, newly created knowledge – is the singular route to prosperity. In the modern ‘knowledge economy’, those who don’t innovate are condemned to be commoditised

        Interestingly he is one of the only authors to offer any insight into a prescriptive solution for fostering Innovation….guess what it involves Aussie Super playing an active role in supporting entrepreneurship
        …still full credit he does call them (and their political masters) out for failing to make these essential investments.

      • China-bob, the planet is a wee bit sick of supporting entrepreneurship looking for a quick buck or creating the next big thing to bottle neck and extract rents.

        Skippy… entrepreneurs carrying others…. the tropes just won’t die… Freud was a mythologist, he pretty much publicly said so it one of his latter books. Do you know what that means? The whole philosophy is more akin to Scientology than any rigorous intellectual pursuit.

      • Skippy mate these days I steal nickels dimes and quarters for a living, I dont feel real good about it but I rationalize my actions as a necessary step to return to that which I love, namely developing new products (entrepreneurship). I’ve got several irons in the fire but to turn them into real projects I need to socialize with Japanese and Chinese guys that love their Enjo Kosai, honestly the younger the better, its’ seriously @#$%ed up, I just spent the last hour talking to a 14 year old girl dressed in a sailor school uniform because her “date” had to sneak home to his wife…so trust me I know what @#$%ed up is.
        BTW what is it with you and Freud, yesterday you’re carrying on about Bernay’s today Freud are you working your way through the family tree?

        CB: One star exists higher than all the rest. This is the Apocalyptic star. The second star is that of the ascendant. The third is that of the elements and of these there are four: so that six stars are established. Besides these, there is still another star, Imagination, which begets a new star and a new heaven.

      • Seems like if your conscience was very troubled by the larceny of dimes or pandering to clients’ child exploitation you would find a way to stop

    • Best that can be said is that they are looking at it…

      …From perspective deeply imbued in 20th century economic and technological thought. Good grief, even a chapter devoted to gender participation. Participation at all might be more relevant. AI and tech will be disrupters on a scale not seen for centuries. Much of it very very good. Much of it difficult to absorb into current economic framework.

      An exciting era awaits.

    • I wonder how much this magnificent document cost to produce? An unkind person might suggest it is 50 pages of Captain Obvious with a picture of stuff we can’t make anymore on the top. The only thing it is missing is a forward by Lady Stephanie – Australia’s Youngest Self Made Property Mogul.

      That might be what Joe Hockey meant about getting a better job to buy a house in Sydney – hyphenate your back name and write about the future of work in Australia.

      But seriously, the problem with this type of report is that it really does not address any of the issues in great depth. Everything is described in the rear view mirror. The assumption is that we can describe the future in the same language that worked in the past. Not many unthinkable ideas are floated – because they are unthinkable, I suppose.

      Take innovation. The 20th century saw vast innovation. We went from gas lamps to super computers in 100 years. There may not be a century like it again. The idea that perhaps we should innovate in the 21st century is a breakthrough?

      What we are looking at in the 21st century is the possible revocation of the millenia old principle that human labor has a value and that is the basis of economy. When robot + solar panel + 3d printer can produce more than their replacement in their lifetime, we have a singularity. That needs more than Captain Obvious to explain how it works.

      Another other possibility is that to preserve the current political and economic status quo, governments use computers to make fake (simulated) industries that people are employed at and get paid. I saw something like this has been trialed in France – for “training” purposes.

      Maybe we should give some more considerations to the “unthinkables”.

    • Here is a take on our the institutions responsible for educating our ‘knowledge’ workers and (shrinking) adminstrative management classes (a new social class), i.e. universities:

      ‘Workers uprising. “The last refuge of a Soviet-style command economy is university systems across the OECD. It makes no difference whether a university is public or private. They all spend vast amounts on the production of gratuitous functions, labyrinthine administrative processes, pointless marketing, failed competition, spurious plans, useless strategies, vacuous documents, inane branding, dysfunctional databases, needless committees, tendentious grant seeking, comic institutional ambitions, vain rhetoric, inaccurate metrics, shell game budgets and brittle self-justification. Today seventy cents in every dollar that a student or the taxpayer hands over to a university goes to the nomenclatura and its myriad of offices.” From Peter Murphy‘s (James Cook U) forthcoming, Universities and the Innovative Economy (Ashgate). This book is going to intrigue some people, amuse others and infuriate a few. The debate it deserves is going to be fun.’

      In short, graduating from university will not guarantee an administrative management career, except where organisational ‘credentialism’ requires (a series of) higher education qualifications to be eligible for employment, even if there is no technical or specialist skill requirements or linkage.

  8. “As corporations slowly but relentlessly tighten their grip over governments, it is worth considering how far they are prepared to go to enforce their rights, especially as the secretive Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal includes ISDS clauses too.

    This is how far they have gone already: Egypt raised its minimum wage at the beginning of last year. It wasn’t much by Australian standards, just $74 a month, but for a state employee on 700 Egyptian pounds a month ($102), a rise to 1200 pounds is not to be derided.

    A French multinational with operations in Egypt, however, did not like this minimum-wage effrontery. A couple of months later, Veolia, the global services juggernaut, bobbed along and sued Egypt for the grievous disadvantage it had suffered thanks to the industrial relations changes.”


    Geez it’s not like this stuff is buried deep out of sight. Voters is Stupid.

    • interested partyMEMBER

      It is the board of directors ‘duty’ to maximize profits for the shareholders. There is nothing about ethics or societal buffers in the rule book. No matter what changes we make to our lifestyles, any/all changes will be interpreted as opportunities to the corporations. This is most prevalent in big Ag. We cut back on water use….they respond with more waste as there is more water for them to use. We are strapped in and no move by voters will make a difference. Voters are not stupid…..they are willfully blind.

      • Interested party,

        “It is the board of directors ‘duty’ to maximize profits for the shareholders”

        Factual incorrect, it a meme which even its author has now begrudgingly back down from.

        “Yves here. This is a subject near and dear to my heart. So many of the assertions made about “maximizing shareholder value” are false that they should be assumed to be a lie until proven otherwise. The first is that board and managements are somehow obligated to “maximize shareholder value” is patently false. Legally, shareholders’ equity is a residual claim, inferior to all other obligations. Boards and management are required to satisfy all of the company’s commitments, which include payments to vendors (including employees), satisfying product warranties, paying various creditors, paying taxes, and meeting various regulatory requirements (including workplace and product safety rules and environmental regulations). As we wrote last year:

        If you review any of the numerous guides prepared for directors of corporations prepared by law firms and other experts, you won’t find a stipulation for them to maximize shareholder value on the list of things they are supposed to do. It’s not a legal requirement. And there is a good reason for that.

        Directors and officers, broadly speaking, have a duty of care and duty of loyalty to the corporation. From that flow more specific obligations under Federal and state law. But notice: those responsibilities are to the corporation, not to shareholders in particular…Shareholders are at the very back of the line. They get their piece only after everyone else is satisfied. If you read between the lines of the duties of directors and officers, the implicit “don’t go bankrupt” duty clearly trumps concerns about shareholders…

        So how did this “the last shall come first” thinking become established? You can blame it all on economists, specifically Harvard Business School’s Michael Jensen. In other words, this idea did not come out of legal analysis, changes in regulation, or court decisions. It was simply an academic theory that went mainstream. And to add insult to injury, the version of the Jensen formula that became popular was its worst possible embodiment.

        And as John Kay has stressed, when companies try to “maximize shareholder value,” they don’t succeed:

        Oblique approaches are most effective in difficult terrain, or where outcomes depend on interactions with other people. Obliquity is the idea that goals are often best achieved when pursued indirectly.

        Obliquity is characteristic of systems that are complex, imperfectly understood, and change their nature as we engage with them…

        Obliquity gives rise to the profit-seeking paradox: the most profitable companies are not the most profit-oriented. ICI and Boeing illustrate how a greater focus on shareholder returns was self-defeating in its own narrow terms. Comparisons of the same companies over time are mirrored in contrasts between different companies in the same industries. In their 2002 book, Built to Last: Successful Habits of Visionary Companies, Jim Collins and Jerry Porras compared outstanding companies with adequate but less remarkable companies with similar operations…in each case: the company that put more emphasis on profit in its declaration of objectives was the less profitable in its financial statements.

        So what is this propagandizing really about? As this post from INET discusses, it’s a justification for extractive capitalism. I encourage you to make the time to watch the video, which is very accessible and lends itself to sharing with friends and colleagues.”


        Skippy… I think you need to better inform yourself of what the actual operational facts are, seek a professional opinion on corporate conventions.

        PS. share holders are the last thing the corp has a duty to, if any at all.

      • Skip>>>>>But, the directors are elected by the shareholders, usually by some unwritten agreement, that is how it works in reality. In most cases the directors have some agenda from a or the shareholders. WW

      • Were you wilfully blind about the shareholder myth IP? Maybe ask why a story that relives actors of their social responsibility took hold…

      • WW,

        You are emphatically wrong.

        It might help if you read this article: Corporate Malfeasance and the Myth of Shareholder Value:


        Corporate directors and officers do not have a strict legal obligation to maximize profit. They have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the company. Additionally shareholders do not own the corporation. They own security in the corporation. The corporation “owns” itself.

        To which I would add – How Milton Friedman Fomented the Barmy “Corporations Exist to Maximize Shareholder Value” Myth


        Skippy… it seems some are operating under misconceptions, popular or otherwise.

      • interested partyMEMBER

        WW and others,
        Skippy is in fact very correct.
        I am aware that the ‘Corporation’ is it’s own entity (person), and my OP was based around the moral/ethical standards….or lack of.
        Having said that, I was one of those under the incorrect view that there was a duty ( as in fiduciary) to maximize profit, and stand corrected. It is a minor point however as the ethical standards are somewhat lower than they could be.
        Blind…..maybe, but not willfully so. More likely just ignorant.
        How we got here is one part of the equation…..how to turn it around is another.

      • Interested party,

        No worries, and your integrity wrt this issue is refreshing to say the least, bravo. I also agree with your point on ethical standards, as corporations are lawfully sanctioned entity’s and as such have a duty of care not only to their person, but to society at large. I am of the view as others in a reforming of boardroom statutes and conventions is in order, far to much conflicts of interest and gaming by CEOs purely to line their collective pockets at the expense of the entity down the road, if not, that which affords them license from the start.

        Skippy…. good on you….

      • Skip, Interesting article from Harvard, which is always bandied about as the norm. However companies exist to make the directors and some shareholders wealthy. (and some some stock market speculators)
        Your average shareholder rarely does well from listed companies, they are just another way of directing the money toward the few. That their operations are obscure is one of the reasons housing investment has become vogue, WW

      • WW,

        I don’t know where you get your information from because the history of corporations is not based on making the officers wealthy, especially when your reductive use of wealth is highly subjective i.e. some decades ago where it was about 1 – 20 or today where its 1 – 400/1000+ from a base wage to top officers.

        Corporations are a legal entity for risk management as a limited liability and having a centralized management. Otherwise, most corporations adopt the limited liability so that generally shareholders cannot be sued for a corporation’s commercial debts. Shareholders can in some cases make decisions on the corporation’s behalf, though in larger companies they tend to be passive.

        Your use of the terms “norm’ and “bandied about” really don’t carry any gravitas, you need to supply a more factually accurate historical perspective than your own personal perspective.

        Skippy…. there are many reasons people are engaged in RE, yes lack of trust in equity’s is one, but its just one data point, and the issue needs to be unpacked being inclusive of – all – the data. Persoanly lending criteria is a much bigger one as its ground zero, wrt to RE, always has been and always will be. The incentives behind that is where the real issues reside imo

  9. bobalotMEMBER


    The price for a property in Thornleigh (Sydney), 37 Beresford Rd, increased $1,000,000+ in two years from $660,000 (May 2013) to $1,717,000 (June 2015). Yep, definitely not a bubble.

    LINK 1: Price in May 2013 ($660,000)

    LINK 2: Price today (20 June 2015): $1,717,000 (Middle of listings).


    • arescarti42MEMBER

      Admittedly that place has had hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of renovations done to it, but $1.7 is still an astonishing price.

      At the end of the day it’s a nice, but still pretty unremarkable and not particularly well located suburban house.

      • It’s gone up $1,000,000+ in two years. You could literally demolish the house and rebuild it for less than half of that.

    • One ought to take the “house.ksou.cn” prices with a bit of a reserve.

      I do not claim that in this instance it is incorrect, just that I often found them to be incorrect (e.g. sometimes it lists “offers from $XXXk” as sold for $XXXk).

    • Billybob McBob

      I think some bidders must have got a bit carried away with that one! Round the corner from me and not reflective of recent sales round here (though it is still a crazy bubble)

      Interestingly we looked up some old pics and from the photos it looks like it’s a fibro that’s just been cladded, so will still be riddled with asbestos, the evidence is just concealed…

  10. Wonder what would happen if the people unhappy with the inflated house prices in Australia decided to boycott the big 4 banks and moved their banking business to credit unions? This means saving/investment accounts, mortgages (if any) etc.. all moved to credit unions. Sure this would create pressure on the big 4 no? I think it’s something tangible and could be accomplished if people wanted to do it. Why continue doing business with the big 4 when they care only about their profits and are screwing everyone else in the process?

  11. Here you go mob….

    Wave of Defaults, Bankruptcies Spook Bond Investors

    “First things first: Investor desperation for yield, any discernible yield no matter what the risks, and blind confidence that all this will work out somehow are waning.

    Now questions pop up here and there, and investors are beginning to open their eyes just a tad amid waves of defaults and bankruptcies, after years of worriless fixed-income bliss during which cheap new money made investors forgive and forget all sins of the past. But now investors are pulling big chunks of money out.

    For the week ended June 17, investors yanked “a whopping” $2.9 billion out of junk bond funds, according to S&P Capital IQ/ LCD’s HighYieldBond.com, on top of the $2.6 billion they’d yanked out in the prior week. Those redemptions dragged down the year-to-date inflows to $3.6 billion, nearly 40% below last year at this time. But $201.5 billion remain in those funds.

    Leverage-loan funds have been plagued by outflows as investors have been warned for a couple of years about their risks. Banks extend high-risk loans to over-indebted, junk-rated companies but don’t want to keep these iffy loans on their books. So they sell them to loan funds or repackage them into CLOs and then sell them. Even the Fed has gotten concerned. This week brought more of the same, with $311 million leaving leveraged-loan funds, bringing year-to-date outflows to $3.6 billion. Total fund assets are now down to $94 billion.

    On the investment-grade side, it didn’t look pretty either. Business Insider cited Bank of America Merrill Lynch strategists: “High grade credit funds suffered their biggest outflow this year, and double the previous week.” The biggest outflows since the Taper Tantrum in June 2013. There was more doom and gloom:

    However, government bond funds suffered the most amid the recent spike in volatility, with outflows surging to the highest weekly number on record ($2.7bn). This brings the total outflow from fixed income funds to almost $6bn over the last week, the highest since the Taper Tantrum and the third highest outflow ever.”

    Why the sudden bouts caution?

    The Fed? Maybe not. The Fed’s cacophony about raising rates keeps pushing that point further out into the future. Voices are clamoring for many more years of easy money, and some promote the idea that rates should never rise, or could never rise, in any significant manner, or to what might have been considered more normal levels a decade ago, because, after six years of these ingenious easy-money polices, businesses, governments, and consumers have taken on so much debt that higher rates would bankrupt them.

    Besides, when or if the Fed finally has what it takes to raise the rates, it would go from nothing to nearly nothing very slowly, as Fed gurus explain relentlessly. So not all that much to be spooked about”


    Chortle… quasi-capitalist aka free market cultist think running a country lake a PE firm with boarders is the bright thing to do….

    The lower IR were never going to stave off the inevitable, with out a sound fiscal policy, yet the balanced budget – surpluses mob have shot themselves in the proverbial foot [might be confused with a** and location of frontal lobes – too boot].


    Skippy…. ahhh…. the warm after glow of Ideology trumping Reality….

    • WTF does the Fed leaving interest rates at zero (and enabling Obama and Co to borrow a trillion a year at their peak) have to do with ‘free markets’?

      The Fed manipulating rates (not the free market) is what has created this inevitable disaster.

      The ‘free market’ would have seen a proper clean-out of the imbalances and rates would be far in excess (and outstanding loans far below) current levels. Systemic risk would be lower and financial repression wouldn’t be killing the saving class.

      But sure, carry on an blame the ‘free market’

      • That’s because the term “free markets” is a trope used to beguile soft minds, yet this trope was used to deregulate sectors of the economy, like the financial sector, which then enabled them to assert their self interest by hollowing out the rest of the economy for personal profit – wealth.

        BTW the fed did not manipulate rates anymore than what was norm for the gold standard, its was Milton’s quasi gold standard to do so.

        Skippy…. cracks me up that Volcker, Milton, Greenspan, and Bernanke were all freedom and liberty poster boys. Volcker was the first to hammer wages for the freedom and liberty posse imo. That you can’t grasp that the last 60 years is a result of free market ideological wankery is the punch line to a dark comedy .

    • Not in the slightest bit surprising to read this. It’s all part of the same neo-liberal ethos of self regulating markets that has given us all our various financial bubbles, including of course our very own housing bubble, despite the mountain of evidence that left to their own devices, markets, if anything, are self corrupting as the crooks drive out honest participants.

      • Its defiantly a riff on Gresham’s law where corruption drives out or overwhelms enterprise that does not engage in such acts, till it, just becomes one big pit of corruption sucking everything up, whilst becoming a singularity.

  12. http://www.pieria.co.uk/articles/osbornes_balanced_budget_proposal_is_a_very_bad_idea

    What a load of myopic simplistic unmitigated tripe!!!!!!! How much longer do we have to put up with this sort of rubbish being posted as some sort of established truth? Again we have an article which just simply says that all economic problems can be fixed with simply printing money!!!! There is not a single mention of the Current Account and the problems of Government deficits being reflected in the Current account.
    Fair dinkum! We have been over and over and over and over this Magic Money Tree BS!
    Enough already!

    • You can’t grow out of a economic hole by cutting back and your printing meme is nothing more than a trope. That you mangle the monetary system and ignore the economic agency behind its operation is your biggest problem. No to mention decades of ratchet effect to get here in the first place.

      • Baloney!
        It doesn’t matter a lot who prints. The result depends on the structure of your economy. if your economy is structured to run chronic and high CAD’s then who prints only makes a difference in how long before the whole lot enters the Current Account.

      • One persons asset is another persons liability.

        Wanking on about money is so narrow in scope, considering all the other factors involved, it becomes pathological, if you wanted soundness, then standards should have been commensurate.

        Btw fiscal policy is not wild printing, that fundamentalists block out of fear of counter narrative, leaving the quasi private CBs staffed with economist groomed in neoclassical economics and not financial systems is just farce following folly. Especially now when the system is so corrupt that the possibility of any fiscal remedy would just be looted too, everything is bottle necked through extraction points for vested interests.

        Skippy…. All you can bang on about is CAD.

    • doug
      “Thinking back, 1986 was a critical year. The U.S. “twin deficits” (fiscal and trade) were spiraling out of control. Loose financial conditions were also stoking a dangerous stock market Bubble. Bubble Dynamics were as well attaining powerful momentum in Japan. At the time, the common perception was that Japan – or at least their powerful banks and manufacturers – were going to take over the world.

      It was a fateful period. Our policymakers should have more forcefully acted to rein in fiscal and Current Account deficits. Instead, financial conditions were aggressively loosened. Worse yet, the U.S. put intense pressure on the Japanese to loosen their policies to help rectify our trade deficits. The upshots were parallel U.S. and Japanese Bubbles. ”
      The answers lie back in time. in Aus case the answer is about 25 years earlier than the US

      ” It’s an unmitigated disaster in the making.”

      EVERYONE should read Doug Noland!!!!!
      Few do it seems.

      • Doug Noland is an AET wing nut gold bug, worse is hes still playing with game theory when its been refuted and only used by wonky economists. Rational actors, Nash, equilibrium all have been refuted by psychology, biology and neuroscience.

        Skippy… its prescriptive and not descriptive.

      • An oldie but goodie

        ” Doug Noland doesn’t get MMT

        Let me repeat what Noland says:

        at this point it is only a matter of time before the markets begin to impose discipline upon Washington.

        “Only a matter of time”? What is that supposed to mean? Mr. Noland should ask Bill Gross how that trade played for him. Has he not noticed that the US yield curve is collapsing to historical lows? And it also seems that Chairman Bernanke is finally figuring out that the Fed can control the yield curve to the degree it chooses by setting price and letting quantity float.

        The “bottom line” is that with the domestic private sector increasing its saving/deleveraging and net exports not offsetting the demand leakage to saving, the sectoral balances are dominated by domestic private saving and external saving (CAD equivalent to KAS), with the result that if the government’s fiscal balance doesn’t sufficiently offset, then the economy will underperform. This means that the fiscal deficit and politically imposed requirement for offsetting Treasury security issuance are insufficient. As Warren Mosler likes to say, by trying to avoid becoming the next Greece, we are becoming the next Japan.” – mike norman /2011/12/

      • Your posts are becoming less and less nuanced. Soon they will just be the Web equivalent of grunting, whatever that may be.

    • GunnamattaMEMBER

      Yes, allowing law, or justice, to be universal and inalienable could be both a risk to us, and difficult to live with some of the implications of, if applied more widely……

      Restricting it to a chosen subset, and talking up the value of being part of that subset, so that they never ask about it at all, would be a more cost effective and better management strategy with less risk for stakeholders…..Us and them, preferably where the ‘us’ never asks questions about who is us and why, as well as the forms being us can take, and them without any ability to communicate to us what them[ness] is all about.

      Then, once we have established the idea broadly, we can explore usness more fully with a view to establishing degrees of usness (or rankings) and enhancing the value proposition identified with usness – working from the core us out. Over time the core us would be able to allow the marginal us to contribute to the costs of being us on a user pays basis, to reflect the advantages they accrue from being us without quite being as us as us. This would of course enable the marginal us to implicitly understand what being us is all about in terms of responsibilities and advantages, and allow the core us to make usness a more self sustaining proposition at the us face and allowing those more core to the concept of usness to focus on more strategic usness issues.

      Ultimately, as we build the concept of us values and establish greater awareness of it amongst them, there would be no doubt a desire on the part of some of them to become us, and it would be possible that in some marginal instances the value them would see in being part of us would be more than the value the marginal us would identify. In such circumstances the core us would be in a position to maximise the inherent value of us by trading the marginal us for them who want to be us, thus increasing the efficiency and return to investment of being us.

      …..a catchy jingle for us to sing, and some appropriately branded us clothing lines and we are there.

      • Lawyers have fucked America. They have fucked Australia and have infiltrated our parliament so much it cannot be saved. Lawyers are at the core of Australia’s problems. We don’t want to trust them with anything else.

        Gillard is a lawyer. I rest my case (so to speak).

      • GunnamattaMEMBER

        atta boy Rich, you’ve nailed it.

        Lawyers have fucked great nations. Gillard was a lawyer, as was Howard, as was Menzies – as is George Brandis. Wankers the lot of them. Lets dispense with law all together!

        What is law after all? It is just a codification of power, isnt it? And if we have law then we are just acquiescing to the power that someone has over us. Fuck ’em I say (and you too presumably).

        Lets get back to basics. Lets have power in your face and up front. Lets acquiesce only to those prepared to brandish a bit of whacko to establish their right (and when all is said and done all law is basically about property rights) and lets get back to the right of every man woman and child to whack back where they feel the presumption of any given right over them is a load of bull or otherwise alienates their aspirations, thoughts or feelings.

        As a man who has done a bit of Mad Max this weekend I am in the mood for a little bit of battle mace work with my driving, and I could cope with greater challenge in negotiating prices when I collect victuals. Though I am prepared to admit there may be downsides

      • @Rich and Gunna,

        Lawyers have done jack compared to what payed mythologists posing as wonky economic theologists have wrought over some 60 years, and as they were payed to do so you might want to figure out who payed them and why.

        Skippy…. lawyers… shezz… your starting to sound like some blokes meth’ed up on Friday night getting large at the pub, ready to swing glass at imaginary foes.

      • Chodley Wontok

        Skippy, you may want to study what gunna has written there.

        I am still trying to get my head around it, but I dont think it is about turfing lawyers

      • Gunna, you are a braver man than I to Mad Max in your neck of the woods.

        I recently did some work around Newcomb and I know that I wouldn’t last a heartbeat should the dogs of war be unleashed while I am in that area.

      • @Gunna.

        I’m not talking about law. I’m talking about the practitioners of law that have twisted the spirit of law to be nothing like the intended purpose of law.

        Fuck lawyers. Look at what the grub Brandis is doing with metadata. Is it okay that someone pages $5k for a days representation in court? How obscene. IMO it’s one of Australia’s biggest issues. Misrepresentation of law for lawyers gain.

        Lawyers in government are a disaster. Vote against every one of them. Hockey. Lawyer running a budget. Yeah great. In it for themselves for whatever they can steal from Australia for themselves.

      • Amends Gunna, too many conversations going on at the same time and was not paying close attention, my bad.

      • Gunna

        I’m not poor and i’m not rich. however lawyers have effectively removed me from having recourse to the law. i can’t afford it. If someone decides to have a crack at me for, say, unfair dismissal, i have to roll over and just pay the $10k, $30k $40k demanded – whatever i can negotiate. I cannot afford a lawyer. I have no rights whatsoever. Whether it is wrong is irrelevant!!! The whole legal system in this country is corrupt.
        An Ag Scientist graduates what’s he going to get salary wise? Scientists, even the best, get maybe what $100k? Every damned lawyer in the country expects to earn between $250k and $500 k a year minimum!
        Then judges…I presume you’ve been to the High Court in Canberra. How can bods who sit in that sort of opulance, after a lifetime of super rewards as legal practitoners, hope to have any understanding of issues that beset the ordinary man.
        The legal system is corrupted at every level.

      • The Traveling Wilbur

        Ok you convinced me. We shall join together and fight them on the beaches. I.e. hear, hear (and you’re channelling Winston more than usual btw – I can envisage the cigar and snifter now. Have you practised to the point where you can manage both in the same hand yet?) Note: humour intended but not sarcasm.

      • flawse,
        When you get a bee in your bonnet you have a habit of grossly exaggerating. Lawyers getting a min of 250-500k is just utter crap. Do you know any lawyers? Top three tier firms sure, rest bs.

        As to unfair dismissal, again 10,30,40K in your dreams. My sister is presently taking a former employer to task (reping herself) with FWA after being terminated for making a fuss that they were breaching their D of C to a “client” (mental disability), she’ll be lucky to get 4 wks.

        You cannot seem to stop yourself from ranting about lawyers. Who do you run to when someone breaches a contract with you, or someone accuses you of B of C? Give it a break for once.

    • Maybe if we stopped sending soldiers over to the other side of the planet to engage in wars that beget more war and completely destabilize an entire region, we would not be so scared of payback or copycat acts by people with psychological problems.

      • Mining BoganMEMBER

        What? Killing brown people for our profit is vital for freedom. Our freedom, not brown people’s. Their’s doesn’t count. Yes, dodgy war is essential for our freedom…well, not really our freedom, more the bastardised version that we’re told is good for us.

        You know, if there were no brown people left, we’d only have white terrorists. The good type. What a world that would be.

      • Tripe!
        You’d have to go back a century (six?) to fix what was done. Whatever this is it is ON! It will go on until it no longer can.
        War is a barbarity few of us can even imagine. To win you have to enter the barbarity.Live the barbarity! Hopefully i’m too bloody old and i’ll pass this mortal coil before this plays out. I fear for my children and grandchildren.

      • Flawse,

        I go back to PIE, your century [6?] is just a bunch of foundation myths echoing through societies dim past, you repeat them.

        Skippy…. as such you sentence the future to the same…

    • Mining BoganMEMBER

      Our Tony has been charged and been to court for vandalism and indecent assault. Used lawyers too…lots of them. Enough to get him off anyway.

      Imagine how nice Oz would be today if they had just locked him away all those years ago.

    • FREE!
      Not with me!
      If they were paying for signature or whatever they need for registration, perhaps i could release some equity in my vote…

  13. http://news.domain.com.au/domain/real-estate-news/10-steps-to-beating-the-sydney-property-bubble-20150619-ghrp18.html

    10 Steps to be a Lemming…. dear me.

    1. Shop around for the best mortgage deal (not that this makes housing affordable at all…doh!)
    2. Rent where you want to live and buy in a good investment suburb (give up, you can not afford your first home…doh!)
    3. Move out of the inner suburbs to find better value (housing is not affordable where you want to live…doh!)
    4. Look for somewhere that’s about to benefit from new infrastructure(increased infrastructure pushes house prices up, not down…doh!)
    5. Inspect houses carefully and try to find one you can add value to later(still thinking to ‘flip’…doh!)
    6. Pool your resources with a friend or family member(code : you can not afford a house…doh!)
    7. Buy as an investment, and live with mum and dad (code : you can not afford a house…doh!)
    8. Consider buying a dual-key property (code : you can not afford a house…doh!)
    9. Try to identify a property that’s been vacant for a long time (code : buy a house with problems…doh!)
    10. Get out of town(code : you can not afford a house…doh!)

    • Unfortunately, when you see people around you “doing well” and they show you that the houses similar to the one they bought 1.5 yrs ago in say Kings Langley for $550k are now selling for “offers over $700k” one’s own vision clouds. Never mind that the house is worth only what you get *after* you sell it, not whilst it is still in your hands.

      There is still plenty a life in the bubble…

      • ‘still plenty of life left’ – gee, that’s depressing. Agree though, I just wish a Black Swan will visit sooner rather than later.