Our Clive to block pension age rise

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The free radical introduced to Australian politics is moving with increasing energy:

With Labor and the Greens controlling the Senate until July 1, the government will need Mr Palmer’s support to pass the pension age change, if it wants the legislation through before the next election.

But Mr Palmer has released a statement saying it is unfair to make people work until they are 70.

“Many Australians will die without enjoying their superannuation benefits if reforms proposed by the Abbott government are implemented,’’ he said.

“The real reason to extend the age for eligibility to 70 years is to allow the fund managers to keep Australians’ super.

“Many Australians will die and never enjoy the benefits of their years of hard work.”

This is the central fiddle of Budget repair, gone ‘casue Clive says so.

Comments

  1. johnathonbbbrown

    The major blights on the budget are: too many bludging public servants, the massive ponzi immigration scheme which brings 300, 000 Asians to Australia every year, negative gearing and superannuation concessions to the rich. They must be ended.

    • Is the “blight of 300,000” the fact they are Asians, or because it is 300,000?

      If the latter, the descriptor is unnecessary.

      Asian culture is ascending, western cultural is degenerate. We should feel privileged a winning culture is embedding itself to us.

      • What ? Seriously, western culture is degenerate is it ? Hell of a sweeping statement. For all its faults I don’t see a lot of non western nations championing freedom and liberty. There is a lot wrong with western nations but i wont accept it is degenerate. And Asian culture, really you think its somehow superior do you ? A culture that traps bears in cages for the horrific practice of bile extraction, not to mention contributing to the slaughter of rhinos for its horn as a fraken aphrodisiac, when its made of nothing but hair. That’s the mark of an a ascending culture is it ?

      • What ? Seriously, western culture is degenerate is it ? Hell of a sweeping statement. For all its faults I don’t see a lot of non western nations championing freedom and liberty.

        Drones in our skies policing our behaviour.

        NSA having global surveillance on our internet activity.

        Retraction of laws for indefinite custody without sentence.

        Ever increasing unelected bureaucrats ruling western lives, such as out of Brussels.

        Our liberties are being withdrawn.

        There is a lot wrong with western nations but i wont accept it is degenerate.

        Below replacement rate birthrates.

        Placing trivial matters such as gay marriage as paramount policy reform.

        Brainless celebrities hold centre stage of media content.

        Obesity rampant and nutritional knowledge subsiding.

        Entitlement from transfer payments rampant.

        In every facet of what is a successful species from an evolutionary perspective, we are the opposite. We are bound for failure, that is degenerate.

        These aren’t fringe elements which you nominate below, these are mainstream.

        And Asian culture, really you think its somehow superior do you ? A culture that traps bears in cages for the horrific practice of bile extraction,

        I can walk many streets in Asia, it’s not as if every 2nd household has a caged bear in the backyard.

        not to mention contributing to the slaughter of rhinos for its horn as a fraken aphrodisiac,

        The same.

        I can point out brainless heiresses buying 14 carat diamond necklaces for their pet chihuahua’s as a less obscene comparable, but it’s not symptomatic of western culture.

        Neither are bear bile or rhino horn of (varying) Asian cultures.

        when its made of nothing but hair. That’s the mark of an a ascending culture is it ?

        Billions lifted out of poverty.

        Increasing wages.

        Restrictions removed from media.

        Emphasis placed on education.

        Emphasis placed on family.

        These are the hallmarks of an ascending culture.

      • Asian culture is ascending, western cultural is degenerate

        Wow, you lost me here, have you ever been to China? I am not saying we are the best, but there are some serious cultural problems there.

        I agree with you that he made an unnecessary racial issue of immigration though.

      • notsofastMEMBER

        Rusty Penny,

        “Billions lifted out of poverty.”

        Should read. A few hundred million lifted out of poverty. Many Billions left in poverty.

      • “Drones in our skies policing our behaviour”

        Police, police our behaviour. I will just duck outside and checkout the fleet of drones covering the skies shall i.

        “NSA having global surveillance on our internet activity.”
        Yeah not something we want. Conveniently ignore the oppressive internet censorship of other totalitarian regimes aren’t we.

        “Retraction of laws for indefinite custody without sentence.”
        Who is in indefinite custody. Are you referring to terrorists or falon gong religious leaders who are jailed for their beliefs ?

        “Ever increasing unelected bureaucrats ruling western lives, such as out of Brussels.”
        I guess its better to be subject to non western nation governing systems where you have the choice to vote one party only. Yeah real democratic

        “Our liberties are being withdrawn.”
        As opposed to not having ever had them in the first place

        “Below replacement rate birthrates.”
        Because its better to breed like rabbits in an already over populated world. Ever heard of the one child policy ?

        “Placing trivial matters such as gay marriage as paramount policy reform.”
        Yeah civil rights are trivial to a lot of non western nations, your right about that

        “Brainless celebrities hold centre stage of media content.”
        Because of a free press, and because people choose. i guess its better to not have those freedoms. thats the sign of a progressive society

        “Obesity rampant and nutritional knowledge subsiding.”
        As a result of affluence. Better than starving your citizens i suppose

        “In every facet of what is a successful species from an evolutionary perspective, we are the opposite. We are bound for failure, that is degenerate.”

        These aren’t fringe elements which you nominate below, these are mainstream.

        “I can walk many streets in Asia, it’s not as if every 2nd household has a caged bear in the backyard.”
        That even one exists and is acceptable in a culture marks it as disgusting.

        “Neither are bear bile or rhino horn of (varying) Asian cultures.”
        So there are varying asian cultures but all western culture is just one big mass of the same everywhere, right.

        “Billions lifted out of poverty.”
        Billions still in poverty without freedoms.

        “Increasing wages.”
        Still slave wages.

        “Restrictions removed from media.”
        Yeah no censorship or state run media there is there.

        “Emphasis placed on education.”
        As opposed to the west where emphasis is placed on what ?
        You telling me people dont want thier kids to get a good education.

        “Emphasis placed on family.”
        As opposed to the west where children are sold into slavery, right

        “These are the hallmarks of an ascending culture.”
        All the hall marks of picking and choosing your argument to justify an absurd idea.

      • migtronixMEMBER

        @Angry and which “western nation” is defending individual liberty these days? Oh yeah! None!

      • migtronixMEMBER

        @Angry aren’t you the one who thinks individuals shouldn’t have choice about what they put into their body? And you talk about freedom? Get fucked!

      • I would agree western culture has become very degenerate. But I think working your guts out for decades to make garbage and for the usurers isn’t any better. Horses for courses.

      • Western culture has been degenerate for a few thousand years now depending on who you’re talking to. It doesn’t have to be our defining characteristic, though, as much as proselytising priests or portentous imams or misanthropic Communist Party technocrats would have you believe. Even ‘degenerates’ are capable of great things.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Asian culture is ascending, western cultural is degenerate.

        When is it going to ascend to the current level of “degenerate” Western culture ?

      • Damn, so tied up on Rumples thread I missed the fun here!

        RP … hear hear!

        Oh yes, on Western degeneracy … hmmmmm, from the near-infinite examples one could point to, perhaps this —

        http://www.novafm.com.au/article/vagazzling%E2%80%A6wtf-jennifer-love-hewitt-blings-her-bits

        Ok, not good enough? Check out the brilliant SBS documentary “Decadence” —

        http://www.decadencedocumentary.com/

        Or perhaps, try the Renegade Economist’s doco, “The Four Horsemen” —

        http://www.renegadeeconomist.com/news/four-horsemen-film-official-trailer.html

        Our Western civilisation demonstrates all the signs of decadence and degeneracy witnessed in the decline of civilisations’ past.

        Right down to massively over-remunerated sports stars, an obsession with food, and celebrity chefs.

      • @AngryMan, this would be interesting if not for the blinding hypocrisy.

        Western Society, more importantly, (mostly) Western corporations have enslaved most people into a life of poor diet and eternal sickness through the co-opting of animals into the western food industrial complex.

        In conjunction with a synthesised compounds industry (think vitamins and supplements), they have made animals and humans slaves.

        We practise, actively, speciesism (for which there is NO moral justification), murdering, or enslaving (dairy) millions of animals every year, clearing forests, planting food to feed animals that could be feeding people.

        We filter our nutrients through animals, which is grossly stupid.

        Large numbers of animals are tortured horrifically, needlessly.

        To say we are better than the Chinese because we don’t have bears connected to bile ducts, is, to put it mildly, arrogant, hypocritical, and plain stupid.

        For anyone interested, read The China Study, or perhaps the 80-10-10 diet, or perhaps the work of McDougall.

        Western society is more degenerate than you can possibly imagine.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Our Western civilisation demonstrates all the signs of decadence and degeneracy witnessed in the decline of civilisations’ past.

        But the one we’re supposed to consider superior is authoritarian, encourages blind obedience to authority, discourages acting outside of tradition, discourages innovation, downplays individual rights, etc, etc ?

        I’m sure it looks great if you’re a Catholic fundie who thinks the Enlightenment was a step backwards… Not so much the rational amongst us.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        We filter our nutrients through animals, which is grossly stupid.

        An interesting question !

        If we feed one person nothing but grass, and the other nothing but steak, which one will break first and ask for something different ?

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Oh yes, on Western degeneracy … hmmmmm, from the near-infinite examples one could point to, perhaps this –

        Which part of this am I supposed to find offensive ?

        Would I still need to be offended if she was just talking about wearing some good old-fashioned lingerie rather than some glued-on rhinestones, or is any frivolity regarding women and sexytimes a portent of social armageddon ?

      • “But the one we’re supposed to consider superior is…”

        *sigh*

        No one made that argument.

        You have quite a talent for misrepresentation, and putting words in other people’s mouths. Give it a rest. It’s pathetic.

      • “Which part of this am I supposed to find offensive ?”

        Nice cherry pick.

        How about you watch the two documentaries that were referenced also. If then, you still think — as it appears you do — that the premise advanced that the West is decadent, degenerate, and declining is not substantiated, then please do make your argument … on the basis of debunking all the information offered.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        No one made that argument.

        Perhaps you can shed some light on what “ascendant” and “a winning culture” when used in the context of “degenerate” western culture was supposed to imply, then.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Nice cherry pick.

        Nice deflection.

        Now, what was it I was supposed to find offensive about some random celebrity writing in their autobiography about how they once had some sparkly things in their crotch ?

        How about you watch the two documentaries that were referenced also.

        I intend to. But it’ll take me days to download them and find the time, and no-one is going to be reading this thread by then.

        The trailer would appear to suggest there’s going to be a lot of wowsers tut-tutting about how kids these days have too much fun, however, just like they’ve been doing for all of recorded history, and probably long before that as well.

        Undoubtedly there’ll also be some celibate men telling us how sinful it is to enjoy sexytimes and how anyone not living a traditional (but not *too* traditional) Christian lifestyle is a failure.

        Hopefully there’s more to them than that. But the link to “vajazzling” sets a pretty low bar for what qualifies as “degenerate”.

        If then, you still think — as it appears you do — that the premise advanced that the West is decadent, degenerate, and declining is not substantiated, then please do make your argument … on the basis of debunking all the information offered.

        The whole thing is, pretty much by definition, just a great big op-ed. Not really something that can have “information” “debunked”.

        I mean, just the opening sentence in the trailer about “the greatest prosperity ever leading to the greatest unhappiness ever” is comical in its hubris and breathtaking in its contempt for the suffering of millions throughout history.

        Thus far, the examples of decadence and degeneration unique to the west appear to be women enjoying themselves, some fatties not being sufficiently ashamed of their ugliness and a small group of greedy people having had disproportionate influence in society for a few decades.

        In the grand scheme of cultural hits and misses, weighed against everything western civilisation has achieved, they don’t seem like excessive compromises. The latter is certainly the most serious, but also a feature of pretty much every culture at both a micro and macro level, in history.

        Perhaps it would be helpful if you could identify some timeframe when western society was not “decadent” and “degenerate”.

      • 3d1k,

        Cool! Thanks, had never heard that.

        You’re right, the Black Lightning an absolute classic. Would love to own one … or even just get a ride.

      • Noone made that argument

        “Perhaps you can shed some light on what “ascendant” and “a winning culture” when used in the context of “degenerate” western culture was supposed to imply, then.”

        Smithy, you are now confusing my comment with that of another commenter.

        You quoted me, then tried to misrepresent my comment, placing words in my mouth, seeking to infer that I support authoritarian Catholicism. I pulled you up on that.

        Now, in response, you are mixing in quotes from a different commenter. I really don’t know what you are trying to achieve by this.

      • “Now, what was it I was supposed to find offensive about some random celebrity writing in their autobiography about how they once had some sparkly things in their crotch ?”

        *sigh*

        Still hung up on that cherry pick, huh.

        Guess it escaped your notice that I wrote Ok, not good enough? Check out the brilliant SBS documentary…” immediately following — clearly inferring that I knew full well the vagazzling example was hardly going to convince many.

        “The trailer would appear to suggest there’s going to be a lot of wowsers tut-tutting…”

        Right. So, jumping to conclusions before assessing the full information.

        No comment on the “Four Horsemen” doco trailer, I see. Maybe you’d prefer to watch that one first.

        From memory, it’s the one containing the few specific examples I mentioned (of many) recurring throughout history in the decline of civilisations that I commented on, viz. over-remunerated sports stars, food obsessions, and celebrity chefs.

        EDIT: No need to download the Four Horsemen, it’s now on Youtube — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU .. as is Decadence, I believe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWCJqZTVrb0

      • Vagazzling!

        Wonders will never cease – though that Belgium girl with the stars tattooed on her face was a hard act to follow.

        Well that is the office Kris Kringle sorted for another year.

        Apart from an economic system that needs some major engine work and a taste for violence as a method of private and public control the ‘west’ has some positives which seem quite attractive to many non-westerners.

        The main one, often observed more in the breach than the observance, is that the social group should not always get to tell you how to live your life.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Smithy, you are now confusing my comment with that of another commenter.

        So when you wrote:

        “RP … hear hear!”

        You weren’t really agreeing with him ?

        You quoted me, then tried to misrepresent my comment, placing words in my mouth, seeking to infer that I support authoritarian Catholicism.

        No, I used an authoritarian Catholic as an example of the type of people who might think that the authoritarian, insular, xenophobic, oppressive Asian cultures provide a superior alternative to post-Enlightenment Western culture.

        I pulled you up on that. Now, in response, you are mixing in quotes from a different commenter. I really don’t know what you are trying to achieve by this.

        RP made two comments. You professed agreement with the content of them. I commented based on that apparent agreement.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Still hung up on that cherry pick, huh.

        Not really. Just wondering why, from a list of “near-infinite examples”, you picked one you can’t explain.

        Incidentally, I’m not sure commenting on an example you chose can really be considered me cherry-picking.

        Right. So, jumping to conclusions before assessing the full information.

        I’ve “assessed” the full information of the trailer and made a comment in that context.

        That’s not “jumping to conclusions”, that’s make a judgement based on available evidence.

        If the content and tone of the documentary is going to be substantially different to that in the trailer, it does raise the question of what, exactly, the point of the trailer is.

        No comment on the “Four Horsemen” doco trailer, I see.

        Because I haven’t watched it.

        From memory, it’s the one containing the few specific examples I mentioned (of many) recurring throughout history in the decline of civilisations that I commented on, viz. over-remunerated sports stars, food obsessions, and celebrity chefs.

        I’m quite willing to bet that at nearly all times in history, there have been over-remunerated celebrities. Modern _technology_ simply allows them to be more pervasive.

      • Smithy, to state “Hear hear!” to a very long comment hardly implies specific endorsement of every single point made in that comment, but rather, a broad endorsement of the general thrust of it.

        Moreover, you don’t even know, with any certainty, exactly which of RP’s several comments my “Hear Hear!” was responding to, now do you?

        You clearly have assumed it was to his original, 3 sentence comment. You are wrong. I was “hear hear!”-ing his second, long comment http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/05/our-clive-to-block-pension-age-rise/#comment-357742 … citing multiple examples. There is not enough thread levels for me to have responded directly to that comment, hence, it is inline with all the rest.

        Perhaps instead of jumping to conclusions, eagerly looking for opportunity to cherry pick, put words in someone else’s mouth, or otherwise misrepresent their view, based on your assumptions, you might hold off for a bit and seek clarity first.

        EDIT: “Just wondering why, if it was good enough to use an example, you can’t explain why.” … because it suggests the kind of affluence, luxury, and frivolous excess (diamonds aren’t cheap), led by a cult of celebrity worship, that have also been seen in the decline of civilisations past.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        You clearly have assumed it was to his original, 3 sentence comment. You are wrong. I was “hear hear!”-ing his second, long comment http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/05/our-clive-to-block-pension-age-rise/#comment-357742 … citing multiple examples.

        They’re both lionising Asian culture and using it as a direct frame of reference.

        Consequently, there was nothing whatsoever unreasonable about my conclusion.

        Further, few, if any of those examples, are unique to western culture – indeed, most are only even worth mentioning because in western culture they actually represent steps backward, rather than the status quo. Thus singling it out as “degenerate”, particularly in the context of advocating alternatives, seems rather… disingenuous.

        because it suggests the kind of affluence, luxury, and frivolous excess (diamonds aren’t cheap), led by a cult of celebrity worship, that have also been seen in the decline of civilisations past

        They were Swarovski Crystal, not diamond.

        Again, I’m confident you’d struggle to find any time in history where this wasn’t true. Kings and Queens, and other royalty, at all times would bask in this sort of relative affluence – and they were, of course, worshipped by many of their subjects.

        It would be helpful to know what period(s) of history you *don’t* think were decadent and degenerate.

    • disco stuMEMBER

      It isn’t the diversity or ethnic mix of our immigration that is the problem, it is the sheer volume that is getting dumped at our airports.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        Dunno, but ascending doesn’t mean peak.

        Never suggested it did.

        We’re getting winners from varying cultures that are improving.

        Strange how they want to come here, no ?

        Locally, we’re coming up with this.

        Compared to stuff like this:

        http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2012/world-report-2012-china

        I think a few fat people who may or may not actually have actual medical issues, and women who like to put sparkles on their vaginas are insignificant.

        First world problems, indeed.

    • johnathonbbbrown

      The major blights on the budget are ….blah blah blah…and the massive ponzi immigration scheme which brings 300, 000 Asians to Australia every year,

      I love Asian immigrants – absolutely love ’em. They work hard, help each other, are devoted to their families, have lots of energy, have piles of creativity and drive – AND MOREOVER DO NOT WHINGE ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE!!!!

  2. What it says is that he doesn’t agree with this fix.

    There is a difference between alluding he is a wrecking ball, and that he may have an alternative fix.

  3. On another note, how many truck drivers, builders, brick layers, carpenters, nurses,road construction workers do you really expect will be physically capable of performing their jobs at age 70 ? Does your economic model account for that? All that will happen is they get shifted onto unemployment benefits until they can access super, provided they don’t die before then.

    Apart from making your numbers look pretty on a government balance sheet, what is the point?

    • How many NRL prop forwards, or AFL full forwards do you expect to see at age 38?

      Should they be entitled to a pension at age 39 because they have effectively retired?

      • are you an idiot ? an NRL prop forward is still physically and mentally capable of performing jobs at 39…..additionally it is a lot easier for a 40 year old to re-skill and find another amenable employer. You goin to retrain in a new profession at 60-65 ???

      • I don’t view myself as an idiot no.

        However whilst a 65 year old may have difficulty acquiring new skills, they would undoubtedly have incumbent skills that would perform many existing jobs.

        How would they not be able to operate the deep fryer at McDonald’s? or clean toilets at the local retirement village?

        My comparison was we don’t give NRL forwards a free ticket to avoid doing work, then why would we do it for a 65 year old when they are capable of doing work?

      • notsofastMEMBER

        Rusty Penny,

        But Australian employers don’t discriminate age NRL prop forwards at the age of 39.

        Where as we know Australian employers start to discriminate against older workers past the age of about 50. And this discrimination only gets worse the older the work is.

      • Your analogy is ridiculous and no one is suggesting anyone should retire at 38. 65 is a sensible age for retirement. What needs to happen NOW is stop lump sum withdrawal of superannuation benefits so that they can be used for the purpose they were intended – providing an income stream in your later years not paying off mortgages from living beyond your means.
        I’m all for most of the proposed changes espoused on MB eg NG on new builds etc but leave the retirement age alone. We are all going to have to face old age one day and from the comments I read on here there seems to be little understanding of what issues one has to deal with eg health, finances etc. I think all this talk of living longer is a red herring. I hope like hell I don’t need the pension but none of us know what is coming from left field so be careful what you wish for..

      • Where as we know Australian employers start to discriminate against older workers past the age of about 50. And this discrimination only gets worse the older the work is.

        They can afford to discriminate when you have a NAIRU policy.

        When we had full employment policies, when we had 1.1% unemployment, was discrimination as rampant?

        or is the current phenomenon symptomatic of NAIRU.

        I would assert the latter, and the symptom would reverse quite some degree if removed.

      • Your analogy is ridiculous

        It isn’t ridiculous, you’re conditioned by an appeal to emotion because ‘we’re old and we crawled through broken glass to get to school every day for 10 years”

        and no one is suggesting anyone should retire at 38.

        Why not? because….

        65 is a sensible age for retirement.

        ….this is just as arbitrary.

        What needs to happen NOW is stop lump sum withdrawal of superannuation benefits so that they can be used for the purpose they were intended – providing an income stream in your later years not paying off mortgages from living beyond your means.

        That’s not where the budget is disappearing.

        it’s disappearing because when the aged pension was introduced, less than 2% of the population received income support.

        Increases in life expectancy mean tis has shifted towards 20%.

        It is more people with their hands out.

        if population was shaped as a bell curve, with the ‘pension age’ a vertical line, it ised to be around 4 standard deviations to the RHS, now it is barely 2 standard deviations, and the distribution is of higher kertosis.

        Put the retirement age at 28, and all of a sudden it passes through the median.

        I’m all for most of the proposed changes espoused on MB eg NG on new builds etc but leave the retirement age alone. We are all going to have to face old age one day and from the comments I read on here there seems to be little understanding of what issues one has to deal with eg health, finances etc. I think all this talk of living longer is a red herring.

        Then you simply do not understand wealth, and have no place discussing this.

        In the past when introduced, we would work 40 years, and receive a gratuitous income stream of 2 years. it was a pass-forward reciprocity gesture, but they are all equal funding, only distribution and parity differs from it and super.

        Now we have 45 years, and 20 years of a gratuitous income stream.

        They calibration is not right, and the fact remains 65 year old are in better shape than what 60 year olds were when the aged pension was introduced. Conditions for retirees today are better than what they were when introduced.

        A 65 year old is still capable of paying their own way by some degree of meaningful employment. You are in fact infantilising them by saying they aren’t.

        I hope like hell I don’t need the pension but none of us know what is coming from left field so be careful what you wish for.

        So what did people do prior to 1906?

    • notsofastMEMBER

      Maybe truck drivers, builders, brick layers, carpenters, nurses,road construction workers would struggle to do their jobs full time but they might be able to do their job part time until 70 and even past 70. Or maybe there is another job they can transition too. As our society ages we need to make our workforce much more older person friendly. Something needs to be done to stop discrimination against older workers for starters.

      And I support our government introducing this now as something to be taken to the next election and for implementation tin the future (between 2023 and 2035 in this case) because it lets people know now that as our population ages things cannot continue with a system that was developed when the average life expectancy was significantly lower and when we had significantly more younger people than older people. It is a discussion we need to have.

      • Except that low skilled part time work has traditionally been the province of the young, because they’re cheaper and fitter.

        Now youth unemployment is rising – is this a signal that these traditional low-skill jobs are evaporating with the increasing use of technology?

        How many less checkout operators do you think Coles and Woolworths use now that they have self checkout? And that’s just the tip of the iceberg, home delivery is even more labour efficient.

        There needs to be a serious rethink of policy here.

      • drsmithyMEMBER

        There needs to be a serious rethink of policy here.

        Indeed.

        Firstly, because most countries are run by Governments ideologically opposed to the kind of full employment policies that would see Grandpa flipping burgers or mowing nature strips.

        But more fundamentally, because we are within a generation, two at the most, of essentially all un- and low-skilled jobs (like flipping burgers and mowing nature strips) being automated.

        The unemployment “problems” we have today are a sideshow compared to what it will be like when probably upwards of half the working population are literally unemployable because there is nothing they can do that a robot can’t do better and cheaper.

        Especially since it’s starting to look like we will hit this stage of our social evolution while being governed by people whose fundamental view of humanity is an Old Testament-esque “you’re all a bunch of evil sinners worthless leechers who need the threat of eternal damnation poverty hanging over your head”.

    • Yeah this is the main issue with such a pension limit. Although, apart from nurses, all the other occupations you mention often start working 5 years earlier and end up pocketing lots of money. So they should be able to retire at 65 or earlier anyway.

      • People can just have savings… and besides, if you play your cards right, retiring at 55 to 60 would be possible for people who had access to a cheap housing market. For the young people though, it just means they have to save better.

        Having said that, to make the pension age 60, they need to remove all tax lurks like NG, CGT, family trusts, wealthy super concessions etc. Else, it’s just what the politicians always intend, to screw us for the betterment of their dinner buddies.

    • NMT
      If we are going to have ‘StopnGo’ people on every minor road repair on every isolated dirt track in Australia then we should have a ban on people less than say 50? holding those jobs. It would be easy to retrain. Perhaps the older people could do shorter shifts…maybe 5 hours each. That way more would have an adequate income, at least as much as the pension, without the physical exertion.

      I’m sure there are other jobs that coluld be so classified.

      I don’t have the answers and this suggestion probably runs counter to the thinking of every Trade union in Australia. However as a society we have to really start thinking seriously about this stuff and start thionking abut stuff we have previously considered ‘out of bounds’

  4. notsofastMEMBER

    I’m sure that Clive knows better than anyone that Australia’s current retirement system, even with the increased pension age of 67 by 2023 is simply unaffordable.

    Clive is just plugging into populist sentiment and is not telling people the truth.

    Clive may not agree with the proposal but he should also be telling Australians the truth. That something will need to change with Australia’s retirement system in the future and that the change will need to be significant. Because Australia has gone from a population with a triangular distribution, with many more young than old, to a population with a more flat distribution, with about the same numbers of people in young cohorts as older cohorts. And because life expectancy is increasing.

    • But this is all immaterial if the oldies can’t get work. Basically what you’re doing is shifting them from the pension to Newstart.

      • Or shifting jobs from 457 visa holders to them.

        maybe not directly, but by displacement by a number of iterations.

    • Ronin8317MEMBER

      Clive is not talking about the pension, he’s talking about superannuation. Changing the retirement age to 70 means no one can access their super until 70. If they lift it to 150, then no one will access their super EVER!!

      • That’s the point Ronin…bail-ins! Effective confiscation of Super savings one form and another! It will all be written down as part of the great international Banker plan somewhere.

  5. Clive is right with his decision but wrong with the justification. He should be asking:

    a) Where are all the jobs for those 65+? Why would an employer hire an older worker for a low skill job (McDonalds, retail, whatever) when they can get a cheaper and fitter 16 year old?

    b) Why target spending before revenue, especially with Australia’s world-leading rort-ridden tax expenditure system?

    • sydboy007MEMBER

      Pop over to Singapore. Most of the golden arches there are staffed by elderly people. At the airport a lot of the staff look to be of pensionable age. The men collecting the trolleys look around the same age as my dad.

      It will require a big attitudinal change within Australian society, but working longer is something we will have to accept, or if people don’t want to, then they can reverse mortgage their house. A long comfortable retirement is something you have to plan for, it’s not a right to be damned from other tax payers.

    • a) Where are all the jobs for those 65+? Why would an employer hire an older worker for a low skill job (McDonalds, retail, whatever) when they can get a cheaper and fitter 16 year old?

      Most 16 year olds are at school for the day shift.

      When they are 18, they are doing something meaningful such as working in mines, because said mines can no longer acquire 457 visa holders.

      b) Why target spending before revenue, especially with Australia’s world-leading rort-ridden tax expenditure system?

      because we need to get out of the mentality that another spend is ALWAYS available from the government teat.

      • When they are 18, they are doing something meaningful such as working in mines, because said mines can no longer acquire 457 visa holders.

        RP, youth unemployment is the highest it’s been in a long time.

      • because we need to get out of the mentality that another spend is ALWAYS available from the government teat.

        But the pension isn’t another spend, in fact it’s a well established system that is being proposed to change.

  6. sydboy007MEMBER

    Does anyone know if PUP plays the bag pipes? Just picturing him there guarding the door to parliament after being told “The contents of this room are VITAL to the country. Be on special alert.”

    Some sleeping gas may be what’s required to pacify the natives if Tony and Joe keep on aggravating them.

  7. ‘“The real reason to extend the age for eligibility to 70 years is to allow the fund managers to keep Australians’ super.’

    Ha ha you go Clive!