Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Reddit + - Krugman vs CNBC By Houses and Holes in Capitalismat 7:48 am on July 12, 2012 | 57 comments Paul Krugman appeared on CNBC overnight and the results were fascinating as his Keynsian views went head-to-head with an ideological distaste for government. Great viewing. Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Reddit + - YOU MAY ALSO BE INTERESTED INDeutsche Bank highlights a society at risk by Chris Becker The HBO series ChernobylThe paradigm now shaping our world's digital citiesCross posted from The Conversation: by DavinaSpaceX launches and lands Falcon 9by Chris Becker This is big. Big big news thatIs Chinese steel production already falling?I've noted many times the possibility that Comments coolnik July 12, 2012 at 9:00 am I believe the ideological distaste of the gubbermint in this video is just the class war in disguise. There is no other plausible explanation. This discussion left the arena of economics long time ago, now it is mostly about morality. GunnamattaMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 9:40 am The disturbing thing is that the guy leaning back in his chair with his sarcasm, not letting Krugman get his answers in, looks like he wants a slot on FOX news. Peter Fraser July 12, 2012 at 10:12 am Good interview – pity about the interference from Joe Kernan. Perhaps one day the Kernan and Santelli set will learn something. MavMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 12:14 pm Rumple’s tweet reminded me of Judith Sloan doing a Joe Kernan to The Kouk : http://stephenkoukoulas.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/judith-sloans-answer-to-everything-cut.html Have a listen: I’ll bet you will be embarrassed for her and turn off midway. What is it with wing nut economists and their rude on-air behaviour? The Patrician July 12, 2012 at 4:26 pm The definition of masochism. Listening to Judith Sloan on a Sunday morning. 3d1k July 12, 2012 at 10:37 am Frankly, rude and ignorant smart-arses. How anyone can watch those finance talking head shows is beyond me. Krugman at the end, looking like a deer caught in headlights, astonished at what he had just witnessed and regretfully participated in. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/11/zombies-on-cnbc/ But kinda scary too, is this polarisation the future of American political and economic discussion – stymieing hopes for intelligent policy. We ARE the lucky country! Lori July 12, 2012 at 10:50 am +1 Thanks a lot for the link. The marching stupidity and ignorance is the disease of our century, unfortunately. Houses and HolesMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 11:04 am You bewailing unintelligent economic policy is a serious irony. Anyway, I thought Krugman handled the doberman with dignity. MavMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 11:08 am +100 3d1k July 12, 2012 at 11:49 am I support intelligent economic policy. Policy that supports a social welfare safety net that is sustainable on a generational basis; discouragement of ‘entitlement’ handouts; prudent regulation, not regulation for regulation’s sake; a fair taxation system not disproportionately penalising any one sector or group of individuals; limits to the size of government bureaucracy; am supportive of environmental initiatives to ensure clean waterways, prevention of arable land degradation where appropriate and limit hazardous airborne chemical particulates – not wealth redistribution schemes disguised as environmental policy, nor schemes that ensure over time prohibitive electricity costs; you get the general idea. Prudent, sensible, economic policy. You see it as ‘ironic’, I see it as desirable. Velociraptor July 12, 2012 at 3:46 pm +1 Nice post 3D1K. MattR July 12, 2012 at 4:02 pm Good post mate. The Patrician July 12, 2012 at 11:32 am 3d, What is your assessment of the contribution of Fox News to that discussion? 3d1k July 12, 2012 at 11:50 am Que? The Patrician July 12, 2012 at 11:55 am “But kinda scary too, is this polarisation the future of American political and economic discussion – stymieing hopes for intelligent policy.” MattR July 12, 2012 at 4:04 pm Not sure about 3d, but mine is “about the same as every other news channel” The Patrician July 12, 2012 at 4:10 pm Fair and balanced. Like the Australian drsmithyMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 12:31 pm But kinda scary too, is this polarisation the future of American political and economic discussion – stymieing hopes for intelligent policy. The Australian Right has been watching its US brethren closely and is marching us towards the same fate as quickly as it can. MattR July 12, 2012 at 4:06 pm Funny that you blame the right for the polarisation. The left are completely innocent I guess right? JustinC July 12, 2012 at 4:46 pm What left? Labor moved to the right of centre long ago. drsmithyMEMBER July 13, 2012 at 7:35 am Funny that you blame the right for the polarisation. The left are completely innocent I guess right? Not innocent, but the vast, vast majority of polarising attack politics and broken economics policy has come from the Right. PhilBest July 13, 2012 at 9:26 am The political spectrum all over western democracy has shifted left, and the right is “to blame” for sticking up for itself? I recall that the libertarian Sean Gabb gave a speech to the UK’s “Young Conservatives” (Google it, the transcript is online), and he was BOOED and HISSED by the “Young Conservatives” for his dreadful hard-heartedness. What he said in response was something like this. “The existence of my views really MATTERS to YOU people’s political credibility, because if MY views are not allowed to exist, the left wing will portray YOU as the new “extreme” on the Right”. drsmithyMEMBER July 13, 2012 at 12:06 pm The political spectrum all over western democracy has shifted left, and the right is “to blame” for sticking up for itself? I can only assume this is parody, because the political spectrum all over the western world has been shifting right (at an accelerating rate) for the better part of forty years. Lori July 12, 2012 at 10:45 am The arrogance of the interviewing men were appalling. Their ignorance shows how far the Americans have gone in their ideology and narrow vision about the world and the economy. They don’t know history, don’t now what the other countries are doing, they don’t know economics, they even don’t know basis ethics. It is very sad, because some of them are younger than Krugman and they are the American future. Their lack of arguments and aggressiveness left me with bitter taste and disgust. The Prince July 12, 2012 at 10:49 am CNBC is kind of like The Australian on TV, except their zombies are more animated, and the phone booth more flashy. Same tone though. 3d1k July 12, 2012 at 10:50 am That is a ridiculous statement. The Patrician July 12, 2012 at 3:58 pm You’re right 3d, that was an inappropriate comparison. A more accurate statement is “Fox News is like The Australian on TV”. 3d1k July 12, 2012 at 10:52 am Prince, by making statements of excess like that you are participating in the spiral down game of polarisation witnessed in the interview. You are smart enough to know that. The Prince July 12, 2012 at 10:57 am 3d1k by making replies like that, you show that you also believe “Nuance” is a village in southern France. I didn’t say The Cupboard = CNBC Before you check your premises, check your grammar checker…your software needs an urgent upgrade (but I’m afraid the firmware is rooted) For the record – even though they publish my articles, Dog love them – by not liking The Oz does not mean I’m a fan of Fairfax. I disdain both sides of MSM -just like both polarised sides of politics. Neither has my vote nor respect. Houses and HolesMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 11:05 am That an astroturfer is concerned with nuance at all is pretty funny. 3d1k July 12, 2012 at 11:08 am Ouch. ‘Nuance a village in southern France’ – are you McCrann? I’m not CJ. Grammar not concern – recall a whole thread a way back when a whole bunch (incl. HnH) confessed lack of interest (due of lack of having been taught) in grammar and grammar nazis. Firmly rooted in perfection, trust me. 🙂 Just don’t get MBs distaste for the The Oz, repeated ad infinitum. You get a call from Mitchell, Mathieson, Kelly or Elliot to reprint an article of yours – gonna do it or is the said distaste too embedded. Perpetuation of polarisation? MavMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 11:18 am Grammar not concern LOL. That wouldn’t look out of place in a Rupert Murdoch tweet. I get it now. Nothing is wrong with your grammar – just that your developer has progammed Murdochian grammar instead of Queen’s grammar into your script engine. 3d1k July 12, 2012 at 11:21 am lol. that was actually a typo. no edit button you see… JimmyMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 10:11 pm A rather odd comment Prince, considering there are grammar mistakes in the vast majority of articles I read on this site. Lori July 12, 2012 at 11:09 am The problem is most people who have even slightest idea and interest in economics and in the economy maybe listening those cube-heads. They are brain washing those who are not well educated and start repeating their stupid and empty ideas (I feel I am insulting the word “idea”, but my English isn’t much sophisticated, sorry). Aristophrenia July 12, 2012 at 10:51 am And yet someone like Peter Fraser writes this :”Good interview”. You are write Lori, it was profoundly disturbing, a disgusting interaction. Ignorance masquerading as arrogance and belligerence. Really, really, sad. Peter Fraser July 12, 2012 at 10:59 am I meant that Krugman was worth listening to. The conduct of the CNBC crew was deplorable, had you actually read my words that would have been evident. The Prince July 12, 2012 at 11:01 am Lots of nuance getting by people this morning – I understood what Peter meant. It was a good interview, in that it showed what ideologies are at play here. It was not a good interview in the style of “hey, let’s inform the viewer and make him a more rounded person intellectually”…. Aristophrenia July 12, 2012 at 11:07 am Disagree – It was a bad interview. He is frequently interviewed by intelligent people and there is light shed on the matter. IT was an appalling interview, just because Krugman has good ideas – does not make it a good interview. He did not get one point across, was being railroaded into how much governments can spend, railroaded into death panels and health rationing, railroaded into small government limited taxation – which part was good ? Nothing was good. I read Peters Words, Peter, and you miss almost every nuance ever given you, I unlike you ALWAYS read the words. Seriously – it was a bad interview. Revealed nothing absolutely nothing we do not already know, discussed nothing, offered nothing. All it did was confirm how depressing things are in the US paradigm – like we needed that. MavMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 11:13 am Aristo.. I will have to side with PF on this. I doubt you can infer sooo much of PF’s thinking out of so little that he has actually said (“Good interview”). Peter Fraser July 12, 2012 at 11:28 am Thank you TP and Mav – I’m not used to support around here. Aristo you wrote “You are write Lori” Normally I would never be pedantic and bother with typing errors, but for you I will make an exception. You are so incredibly pedantic on everyone yet so forgiving of yourself. Nathan Webb July 13, 2012 at 1:28 pm Yes, he reminds me of myself when I was 15. Colin July 12, 2012 at 11:09 am You’d be better off watching his interviews on The Daily Shot and Colbert Report if you want an informative interview. Those Cnbc talking heads are disgraceful PhilBest July 13, 2012 at 9:31 am I think it is fair enough if Krugman gets a hard time from someone on TV once in a while; it has been a norm for years for economists and politicians with free market views to get demonised on mainstream TV. I do not understand why Krugman gets such respect, he is utterly partisan and biased. He was hammering George W Bush over excessively high deficits just a few years ago. Now he thinks deficits twenty times a high are a good thing? Follow Daniel J Mitchell for a while to get some good “fisking” of Krugman. http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/danieljmitchell/ MavMEMBER July 12, 2012 at 11:04 am Is that Andrew Ross Sorkin hosting the show? When did that Banksta ratbag get on CNBC? a63 July 12, 2012 at 11:12 am It was a toned down version of what you get on the “fair and balanced” Fox. I think Krugman handled himself well and with respect for others views rather than what was tossed at him. BTW I much prefer the health care in EU to the US any day having experienced both. manfin July 12, 2012 at 11:26 am Krugs needs to harden up and stop playing victim. He knows the difference between a cable news panel and a university debate, yet he bemoans they took to him with banality. I bet there wouldn’t have been a problem if that banality had continued about his Nobel. How many thousands of spots like this has he done before, are they all big thinking and do they all go down the path of talking exclusively about whatever piece of memorabilia he’s flogging? And he hardly stands above them when he scurries back to the NYT and takes a cheap shot amongst the safety of his people, stating the obvious about the terrible investment advice you’ll get by watching cable business news. Just so he can be bombarded with messages of support from his fans like “Don’t worry, Paul, I stopped watching CNBC years ago.” Bryan Kavanagh July 12, 2012 at 12:34 pm Who’s the idealogue tosser in the shirt? Velociraptor July 12, 2012 at 3:50 pm Why are we/they even bothering with this fool? http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2011/Sep/hyperinflation-21-2.jpg MattR July 12, 2012 at 4:09 pm He leans left and he’s a Keynesian. Enough for H&H it seems. Velociraptor July 12, 2012 at 10:10 pm http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/capital-account-time-for-krugman-to.html Alex78 July 12, 2012 at 6:15 pm Any conservative or libertarian posters please link to your economic heroes with insights and solutions…. nb. I’m already familiar with Judith Sloan’s views. 3d1k July 12, 2012 at 9:29 pm Jeesh. Solutions? No clue. But from American Conservative: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/austeritys-prophets/ Don’t worry, I am aware of personal contradictions – always like a good engineering infrastructure project – of generational benefit of course. glen5875 July 13, 2012 at 1:46 am Well that certainly didn’t work, so let’s try it again….. After the Austrians excommunicated Greenspan, it was only a matter of time before they would get around to Friedman. This sleight-of-hand allows them to start out with a clean slate, as if they had nothing at all to do with the policies that got us into our current situation. There certainly didn’t seem to be too much difference between these two Chicago Boys back in 1975 when they traispsed down to Chile to throw their unbridled support behind the brutal military dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet. As Hayek told a Chilean interviewer the time: “My personal preference leans toward a liberal dictatorship rather than toward a democratic government devoid of liberalism.” http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/11/17/the-road-from-serfdom/ And as the Mexican write Carlos Fuentes observed in The Buried Mirror: **quote** “In a savage action, Allende partisans were rounded up, gathered in a stadium, and murdered en masse. Others were sent to concentration camps, and still others were exiled and sometimes murdered abroad. Pinochet did all this in the name of democracy and anticommunism.” **end quote** I’ve always admired the erudition with which Hannah Arendt took down the pathological ideologies peddled by schools of “thought” like the Austrian School: **quote** “[I]n our own century this country has shown a deplorable inclination to succumb to and to magnify almost every fad and humbug which the disintegration not of the West but of the European political and social fabric after the First World War has brought into intellectual prominence. The strange magnification and, sometimes, distortion of a host of pseudo-scientific nonsense—-particularly in the social and psychological sciences—-may be due to the fact that these theories, once they had crossed the Atlantic, lost their basis of reality and with it all limitations through common sense. But the reason America has shown such ready receptivity to far-fetched ideas and grotesque notions may simply be that the human mind stands in need of concepts if it is to function at all; hence it will accept almost anything whenever its foremost task, the comprehensive understanding of reality and the coming to terms with it, is in danger of being compromised. Hannah Arendt, On Revolution **end quote** glen5875 July 12, 2012 at 9:10 pm This debate, just like professional wrestling, is great entertainment, but one should not mistake it for a true contest. For the simple fact is that both Krugman and his supposed CNBC adversaries are on the same team, the creditor-class team, and in both of their ideologies debt is placed on a pedestal and deemed sacrosanct. To characterize someone like Krugman—-a neoclassicist masquerading in Keynesian drag—-as a “Keynesian” requires quite a leap into fantasyland. Krugman hails from the Rubinomics wing of the Democratic Party, that is the wing of the party controlled by the financiers and bankers. (For a great discussion on how characteropaths take benign ideologies and corrupt them for their own disordered purposes there’s the book by the Polish psychologist Andrew M. Lobaczewski, Political Ponerology.) In fact, Krugman does such an outrageous impersonation of a Keynesian that he reminds me of People Magazine’s “The Drag Queen of the Century,” Harris Glenn Milstead, aka Divine, who can be seen in action here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK_4ILe2Iq4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM7ZyOXjLLA 3d1k July 12, 2012 at 9:24 pm good luck there glen. whoa. some time back i linked to a Brit Sitcom featuring the lumpenproletariat. Was rapidly deleted! (was brilliant though). FrankcMEMBER July 13, 2012 at 12:42 pm That look on Krugman’s face of WTF?!? at the end kind of sums up contemporary economic debate not only in America, but in this country too… GOLD!